1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: In the studio with us. Today we have got Minister 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:06,279 Speaker 1: Josh Burgoyne, he's the Minister for Lands Planning and Environment. 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 2: Good morning, morning Katy, Good morning to your. 4 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: Listeners, representing Alice Springs today Absolute and we've got Matt 5 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: Cunningham from Sky News. 6 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 3: Good morning to you. 7 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: Matt, Morning Katie, and well, representing Catherine and the Opposition, 8 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: we've got Selena Hubo, the leader of the Opposition. 9 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 3: Good morning Katie, Good morning to your listeners. 10 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: Now it's I say this every week, but this week 11 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: has been an exceptionally busy week and throughout this week, well, 12 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: certainly yesterday I sat to watch question Time and as 13 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: question Time was about to begin, revelations that the IKAC 14 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: had completed an investigation into allegations by well all the 15 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: way back on the Colleen Gwynn situation. Now, anybody that's 16 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: listened to the show throughout this week, you would have 17 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: heard me speaking to Colleen on the show on Wednesday. 18 00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: She said she didn't feel that an inquiry was necess 19 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: that the government would really would already have adequate information, 20 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: and that she wanted an apology, ignowling that acknowledging that 21 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: the government had got it all. 22 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 3: So wrong. 23 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: But what we now know is that there actually was 24 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: an IKAC report. As I understand it, it was completed 25 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: back in April twenty twenty four. It was launched in 26 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: September twenty twenty three, but we only found out about 27 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: it yesterday when Parliament was about to Question Time was 28 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: about to get underway. Selena, why on earth wasn't this 29 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: table by the former Labor government? 30 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, Katie, I've read the report since it was tabled. 31 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 3: I didn't see it. I didn't know about it prior 32 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 3: to being in the former Labor government, and it was 33 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 3: quite interesting. I wasn't sure why the CLPA government tabled 34 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 3: it because there was basically a document saying that there 35 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 3: shouldn't be a report. So I'm not sure. I don't 36 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 3: understand the guise of it. I'd be very happy to 37 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 3: hear from Josh and his team about why. Yeah, I 38 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 3: don't understand that move by the government. 39 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 2: It's interesting, Katie, because we've had a lot of pressure 40 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 2: put on us by the opposition saying about, you know, 41 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 2: reports being made public it's in the public interest. So 42 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 2: what happened after the calls earlier this week is that 43 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 2: the Attorney General went to the Akak spoke about whether 44 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 2: or not an investigation into the collenguin matter should occur, 45 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 2: and the Aykak basically came back and said, well, there's 46 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 2: already been one done and the Attorney General got her 47 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 2: hands on it and then published it or made it public, 48 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,399 Speaker 2: tabled it in parliament as exactly what has been occurring 49 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 2: and what the opposition have been calling on the government 50 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 2: to do for the last two weeks. So I think 51 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 2: three hundred and forty three days is a hell of 52 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 2: a long time to be sitting on a report, and 53 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 2: essentially as soon as our government was made aware of it, 54 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 2: we've tabled that in parliament so that everyone can be 55 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: made aware of its contents. 56 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: Well, look, I will say that this whole situation now 57 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: over the last couple of weeks has obviously become even 58 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: more topical due to those comparisons that are being drawn 59 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: between the situation that had unfolded for col Angwin and 60 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: also the situation of course that had unfolded for the 61 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: former Police Commissioner now Michael Murphy. Now what we know 62 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: is that col Angwin has issued now quite an extensive 63 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: statement and in it she said the KAC investigation was 64 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: insufficiently thorough, as the investigator relied solely on court documents 65 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: and the information provided by the entities under scrutiny. No 66 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: independent fact checking was conducted, no witnesses were interviewed, and 67 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: no verification of affidavit claims, particularly those used to justify 68 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: intrusive warrants, were undertaken. Rather than critically assessing the circumstances 69 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: behind the charges, the investigator accepted the materials at face 70 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: value and dismissed the matter without deeper inquiry. She said, 71 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: despite clear gaps in the IKAK investigation or lack their 72 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: of the conclusion was reached that no further action was required. 73 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: Colin Gwynn says this raises serious concerns about the adequacy 74 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: and impartiality of the review. Now right at the end 75 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: and the statement goes on or we'll read it out 76 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,679 Speaker 1: in full after ten o'clock this morning, but she says, 77 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: I am deeply disillusioned with the superficial manner in which 78 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: my complaint to IKAK and others are investigated. There is 79 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: no apparent effort to seek independent evidence and witnesses, or 80 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: to verify the veracity of the information provided. Often the 81 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: subject of the complaint They're very strong words from Colleen, 82 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 1: you know, and I can understand why I'd be feeling 83 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: pretty let down, and I think that she must be 84 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: feeling pretty let down. I mean, it does really make 85 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: you question. I know myself as a journalist, if I've 86 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: got to complete an investigation into a store, well I've 87 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 1: got to interview people, you know, So it's sort of 88 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: it like to me, it raises questions as to have, 89 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 1: Like I don't know what guidelines exactly the i CAAC 90 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: are bound by, but I'm actually really quite surprised to 91 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: hear that she wasn't even interviewed or spoken to as 92 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: a result of that. 93 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 4: Well, everything the IQAQ does Katie in the Northern Territory 94 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 4: since its inception back in twenty eighteen raises more questions 95 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 4: about the ICAC, because if you think about it, we've 96 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 4: had other investigations, arguably into less serious things, where people 97 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 4: have been interrogated, brought into interview rooms, you know, had 98 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 4: their phones taken off them, interrogated, had the information on 99 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 4: their phones captured. We've had people secretly recorded, possibly unlawfully. 100 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 4: You know, the IKAK has gone to extraordinary lengths in 101 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 4: the way it's investigated some matters and some people and 102 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 4: in this case, which appears to be that the allegations 103 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 4: are series. In this case, it was a look at 104 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 4: the papers and nothing to see here. So you know, 105 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 4: that's one issue that you got to look at. And 106 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 4: then I think that perhaps an even bigger issue is 107 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 4: we now have a situation where this report was given 108 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 4: to the government, the former government in April twenty twenty four, 109 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 4: and it chose not to make it public. So we 110 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 4: now have a situation where the body that was set 111 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 4: up to restore integrity and government to improve transparency, it 112 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 4: was all part of that big document that Labour put 113 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 4: out before the twenty sixteen election, is now placing into 114 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 4: the hands of the government. Whether a report, be it 115 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 4: critical or otherwise, is made public. What other reports has 116 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 4: the IKQ done that we don't know about? Good question, 117 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know, I don't know, and you know, 118 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 4: for all, what has it done an investigation into the 119 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 4: charges laid against Zachary Roth caused so much controversy? Is 120 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 4: there a report sitting there about that that hasn't been 121 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 4: released by a government? 122 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 2: Do we know? 123 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 4: How do we know? And we also as journalists, who 124 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I don't want to sound like 125 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 4: a complete wanker, but by extension, the voice of the 126 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 4: public can't get this information either, because I asked the 127 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 4: IKAC questions on Tuesday after Leafnocchiaro was on your show 128 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 4: saying that this was something the IKAC could investigate, and 129 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 4: you know, blah blah blah. Yeah, And there had been 130 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 4: a story in the Australian newspaper back in late twenty 131 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 4: twenty three saying that the i CAAC was investigating the matter. 132 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 4: So I asked the IKC on Tuesday, are you investigating? 133 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 4: Have you investigated this? Has there been an investigation completed? 134 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 4: What was the outcome? Blah blah blah, no, no comment. 135 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 4: We don't talk about these things. So no one can 136 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 4: get the information except the government of the day. And 137 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 4: then it's on the government of the day if the 138 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 4: IKAC doesn't put out a public statement, which clearly it 139 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 4: doesn't always do, to dec whether that information gets released. 140 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 4: How does that work? 141 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 2: And it's interesting because when usked yesterday and I read 142 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 2: in the anti news Selena, I take on face value 143 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 2: the fact that you said you weren't made aware of this, 144 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 2: but the Attorney General at the time, who was Chancey 145 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 2: Pake would have known about this, and that's my understanding 146 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 2: as to how the process works. I think there's questions 147 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 2: now about what he knew and why there was a 148 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 2: decision made not to publish this report. 149 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 3: And look, my argument would be, can I just clarify 150 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 3: something that Josh is an imputation there? Chancey has answered 151 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 3: those questions too. As a former attorney general, he was 152 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 3: not made aware. So none of my team in the 153 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 3: Labor opposition knew about this general well that the IKAK 154 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 3: sits under the Chief Minister of the day, so it 155 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 3: would have been the former chief minister. I can't speak 156 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 3: for one person. 157 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 4: One person holds the power in the Northern Territory about 158 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 4: whether reports into corruption are made public. 159 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 3: That's that's what the process is that we've gotten. 160 00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 4: Do you think that's working? 161 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 3: I think over the last couple of weeks, Katie, we've 162 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 3: absolutely seen that there needs to be changed in reform 163 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 3: with that legislation. I believe that that obviously the government 164 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 3: is looking at that. I would like to see if 165 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 3: they are, and we would be very happy to support that. Priest, 166 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 3: do you. 167 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: Think it's adequate that it wasn't released? And I get 168 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: you know, I get that on the face of it, 169 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: you read that EYECAC report and. 170 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 3: You know, I don't really nothing. The new government has 171 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 3: read that report that they tabled yesterday. 172 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: Well, either way, that's That's not the point I'm trying 173 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: to make. The point that I'm trying to make is 174 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: after you read that report, no matter what you think 175 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: of it, you cannot deny that the Colleen Guin situation 176 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 1: is one that was a matter of absolute public interest. 177 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:41,319 Speaker 1: You know, people following that case, and you know, and 178 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: since speaking to Colleen and the impact that it has 179 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: had on her life. I just find it astonishing that 180 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: even she wasn't made aware that there was a report 181 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: Like to me, that does not pass. 182 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 3: I'm not going to. 183 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: Say the pub test because I don't think that's strong enough. 184 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: It doesn't actually pass. I don't think the public's expectations 185 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:08,319 Speaker 1: of what is, you know, what should happen. I mean, 186 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: maybe I'm wrong, but that's certainly how I feel. 187 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 3: Do you think I think that's the general feel of 188 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 3: Territorians and the conversations that I've had Katie, I agree. 189 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 3: I absolutely sympathize with Collein's situation. I think it's horrible 190 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 3: what she's gone through and then to see that there 191 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 3: has been processes that have found different findings for better 192 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 3: or for worse, but to still feel and obviously matter 193 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 3: Regio article and some of the following in a public 194 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 3: position of anyone doesn't matter if it's a statutory position, 195 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 3: an elected position, for you are a community member and 196 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 3: if you are held in high regard, to have a 197 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 3: process like this happen, and then to feel disempowered that 198 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 3: the process hasn't happened correctly. For just like natural justice, 199 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 3: that's huge, Especially in a small place like the Northern Territory. 200 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 3: It has huge impact not just for an individual, for 201 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 3: their family, for their friends, for their colleagues, for their supporters, 202 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 3: and again it begs questions that territories want to know 203 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 3: are these processes adequate? 204 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: I means, as somebody who is now the leader of 205 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: the opposition that was part of the former government, do 206 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: you apologize to Colleen for what has happened? 207 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 3: Katie? I don't think I'm the right person to apologize. 208 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 3: I know I respect that an apology has to be sincere, 209 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,719 Speaker 3: genuine and create healing, and that i'd firmly believe that 210 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 3: I'd like to understand where an appropriate apology could come from. 211 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 3: Is it from you know, the police force, Is it 212 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 3: from the DVP, Is it from you know, one of 213 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,559 Speaker 3: the former labor leaders, Like I would like to understand 214 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 3: where a genuine and forward moving apology could happen. But again, 215 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 3: that could be Well, what do you think that could be? 216 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 3: I think it would be a question for Colleen, because 217 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 3: I don't think you can ever move forward unless a 218 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 3: genuine apology or process of healing has commenced, and I 219 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 3: genuinely believe that. 220 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 4: Katie, do you think that report should have been released 221 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 4: in April twenty twenty four when the former government. 222 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 3: Received Well, I mean, obviously the conversation. Now we can 223 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 3: always talk about hindsight, but I'm not sure what it 224 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 3: would have necessarily brought forward. You know, I've read the 225 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 3: findings or you know, the conclusion. I should say there 226 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 3: were no findings. There were no recommendations in that document 227 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 3: tabled yesterday by Mary clam Boothby and Josh and his team. 228 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 3: So in terms of where it moves something either forward 229 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 3: or does it provide people with a peace of mind, 230 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 3: then perhaps maybe it should have at the time. 231 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 4: Are either of you aware of any other KAC reports 232 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 4: that have been completed in the past year or two. 233 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 3: Certainly not No, No, definitely not. 234 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: In terms of you know, this report. Look, I think 235 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: it should have been made public, and there's a number 236 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: of reasons that I've already sort of outlined why I 237 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: think it should have been made public. But at the 238 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: very least, I think that territorians have a right to know, 239 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: you know, the process that does happen when it comes 240 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: to some of these investingations. And I believe, like I 241 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: said earlier, that a lot of Territorians will be surprised 242 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: to hear that an investigation can be undertaken and the 243 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: people involved are not questioned in any way. 244 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 3: To me, that makes me. 245 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: Wonder what needs to change or does there need to 246 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: be changes within the IKAK Are they you know, are 247 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: they simply just working within the framework and the legislation 248 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: that they've got. Does that need to change so that 249 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: things can be more thorough or are we literally in 250 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: a situation in the Northern Territory where it's not working 251 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: and we've got to outsource it. 252 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 2: And we've had so many conversations regards to this KDO 253 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 2: over the last little while, as it's been very topical 254 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 2: and I think the opposition leader today, Selena will will 255 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 2: be ensuring that when we put changes, because we are 256 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 2: working through how we can make the eye CAAC better, 257 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 2: what we can do to ensure that corruption in the 258 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 2: Northern Territory is weeded out. But I think what everyone 259 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 2: can agree is that the current settings aren't satisfactory when 260 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 2: we talk about the adequacy. As Collin Gwen spoke about early, 261 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 2: integrity has been a word that's been a lot this week. 262 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 2: People just want to know that their public officials are 263 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 2: doing the right thing, and then when they're not, that 264 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 2: something's happening in regards to that. And the way in 265 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 2: which we ensure that there's integrity of all of us 266 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 2: throughout our public offices is what we'll be. 267 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 3: Looking at going And Katie, I'd like to extend that, 268 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 3: you know what Josh has just offered to be able 269 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 3: to work in a bipartisan way, perhaps include the crossbenches 270 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 3: as well, and make sure that the Northern Territory IKAK 271 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 3: legislation is the best and for purpose for territorians and 272 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 3: what they expect. I think it has to be genuine, 273 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 3: it has think it has to come from both sides. 274 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 3: So if there are proposals. I think a working I 275 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 3: would suggest, and obviously it's up to your leader Josh 276 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 3: to say yes or no, but a working group with 277 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 3: all members of Parliament would be the best way forward 278 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 3: because then it takes the political sting out of any decision. 279 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 3: Any proposed amendments which we saw at the Territory Coordinator 280 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 3: Bill just earlier this week, which all got voted down, 281 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 3: even selp's own amendments from their committee members got voted down. 282 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 3: But if we're talking about genuine bipartisanship in a process 283 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 3: that affects all territories and meeting that high expectation that 284 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 3: community has, like Josh said, of us as elected members 285 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 3: and those who are you know, serving the public, then 286 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 3: very much welcome that process and look forward to being 287 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 3: a part of it. 288 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 4: And I think on the broader issue, there needs to 289 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 4: be there needs to be confidence that people are treated 290 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 4: equally and there are not different outcomes and different processes 291 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 4: depending on who someone is. 292 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 3: And at the moment, any one who the Commissioner might be. 293 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 4: Exactly one hundred absolutely one percent. And at the moment 294 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 4: we have a situation where I don't know about you, 295 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 4: but I've heard a lot of stories in the last 296 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 4: week or two from people who have gone for jobs 297 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 4: in government and been overlooked and feel that the process 298 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 4: wasn't fair and feel that there is possibly something fishy 299 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 4: that's gone on, or that they applied for a job 300 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 4: and then a process was apped for you know what 301 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 4: they certainly in their mind set is questionable reasons. And 302 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 4: so I think that, you know, I wonder how widespread 303 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 4: there are. There have been issues within hiring within the 304 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 4: public service and government departments, which is what has seen 305 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 4: the termination of the Police Commissioner following an i CAAP report. 306 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 4: But but then I still with the Colin Gwin case, 307 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 4: I have to wonder why only one person has been 308 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 4: the subject of a massive police investigation, a three year process, 309 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 4: a Supreme Court trial that was eventually thrown out because 310 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 4: you know, the judge made a decision that meant that 311 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 4: the prosecution had to concede it didn't have enough evidence. 312 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 4: And it's still I just I can't balance that up 313 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 4: with you know, when you hear aunt all these other 314 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 4: cases that are either HR matters or maybe they go 315 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 4: to the IKAK, I don't understand why only one of 316 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 4: them was a massive police investigation. 317 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: Well, look, we are going to talk a little bit 318 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: more about the the recommendation or certainly on the recommendation 319 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,679 Speaker 1: of the Executive Council. The former Police Commissioner Michael Murphy's 320 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: appointment being terminated. Will do that in just a couple 321 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 1: of moments. You are listening to Mix one oh four 322 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: nine's three sixty. 323 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 3: It is the week that was. 324 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 1: You are listening to the week that was in the 325 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: studio this morning. We've got Selena Rubo, we have got 326 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: Matt Cunningham and Josh Burgoyne. Now, as I keep saying, 327 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 1: there's been a lot happened this week, and we know 328 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: that we learned a little earlier in the week the 329 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: former Police Commissioner Michael Murphy's appointment was terminated by the 330 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: Administrator of the Northern Territory. Mister Murphy's entitlements and final 331 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: pay going to be processed promptly. The terms and conditions 332 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: of his appointment in twenty twenty three require payment of 333 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 1: up to or of six month renuneration upon termination. Now 334 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: we also know that the Ikak report, that report has 335 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 1: been tabled as well, that was done on Tuesday morning 336 00:17:54,720 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: and that full report Operation Apollo tabled in Parliament after 337 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: the summary had revealed an unnamed person who later Michael 338 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: Murphy obviously you know, came out and said that it 339 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: was him. There's been a lot spoken about this week 340 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: in terms of whether that report should have been made 341 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: public more quickly. I mean, the opposition quite critical of 342 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: the government for really not making that public any sooner. 343 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: But in that line it does say that that you know, 344 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: it is considered by the Police Minister as to whether 345 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: this report ought to be tabled in the Legislative Assembly 346 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 1: of the Northern Territory. I mean, could she have come 347 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: out with it not in the parliament or did it 348 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: have to be in the parliament. 349 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, Katie, that's just why we've asked if the Chief 350 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 3: Minister lived for Occhio, who's obviously also the Police Minister, 351 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 3: could share that legal advice. There was a lot of 352 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 3: toing and frying about what could and couldn't happen, And 353 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 3: obviously we've already spoken about perhaps some of the improvements 354 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 3: could that could be made to the Ikak legislation. But 355 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 3: in terms of that particular recommendation and conclusion in the 356 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 3: Operation Apollo tabling of the report at part on Tuesday, 357 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 3: it does say it's up to the Police Minister what 358 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 3: they do with that, and then obviously lif not then 359 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 3: tabled it. There was a lot of public interest, there's 360 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 3: a lot of pressure for her to do so, and 361 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 3: then she finally did it on the Tuesday. But the 362 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 3: advice that she was saying she couldn't release anything publicly, 363 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 3: we haven't seen that advice. She hasn't shared that, so 364 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 3: we don't know. We have to, you know, hopefully take 365 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 3: it on face value. But that's the reason why she 366 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 3: said she couldn't table anything. And then in the Commissioner's 367 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 3: report we see that in fact, she could have shared 368 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 3: it at her own discretion. 369 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: Look, I suppose I don't have to point out the 370 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: fact that it now seems quite fascical given the fact 371 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: that we've just spoken about the Eyekak reporting to Colin 372 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: Angwin not being tabled at all. 373 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 3: But I suppose, Katie, this has led Operation Apollo has 374 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 3: now led to the government asking the Commissioner to resign him, 375 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 3: not resigning and now being sacked. So this is a 376 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 3: very different report with the findings conclusions as obviously recommendations 377 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 3: for Operation Apollo, which we're now privy to since the 378 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 3: tabling and the public release of it on just Tuesday morning, 379 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 3: So you know, you know, understanding the processes that we've 380 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,199 Speaker 3: talked about in general, but when we're talking about the 381 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 3: reports themselves and the findings, this has led to a 382 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 3: commissioner being sacked. 383 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 1: So I'm just trying to work out what part of 384 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: this am I reading wrong? Because it says in the 385 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 1: Eyekak Report it's left to the discretion of the Minister 386 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: for Police as to whether she considers this report or 387 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: to be tabled in the Legislative Assembly of the Northern Territory. 388 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: Am I reading it wrong? 389 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 3: Look? 390 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: Does it have to be because every other report has 391 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: been tabled, hasn't it? 392 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 3: No? 393 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 4: Well, the sorry Josh, but there's been inconsistencies around how 394 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 4: this has happened. I think the first one I remember 395 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 4: that was the Kesier Puric one and I remember Michael Gunner, 396 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 4: who was the Chief Minister at the time, doing a 397 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 4: press conference and releasing somehow in that way and then 398 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 4: late because I don't think Parliament was sitting at the time, 399 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 4: and a similar thing I think with the Turf Club report. 400 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,360 Speaker 4: So there have been but well there've been changes. There've 401 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 4: been changes to the Act since as well, so I 402 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 4: don't know. It's all over the shop. I still even 403 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 4: with that advice and it's like yep, table and in Parliament, 404 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 4: which she did on the first day. Whether she would 405 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 4: have if there hadn't have been pressure from others and 406 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 4: Justine Davis saying she was going to name him and 407 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 4: everything else, I don't know. But I still have an 408 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 4: issue that the power to release these things, because remember, 409 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 4: until until it was tabled in Parliament by the Chief Minister, 410 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 4: we'd only seen a public statement and an anonymized public 411 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 4: statement about this issue. We hadn't seen the full report 412 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 4: right until it was tabled in Parliament, and it just 413 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 4: worries me that all of the power sits in the 414 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 4: hands of one person who just also happens to be 415 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 4: the most powerful person in the Northern Territory as to 416 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 4: whether any of this information is made public or them. 417 00:21:59,000 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: It's a good point. 418 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 2: There's been a methodical process has been worked through in 419 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 2: regards to all this, and I think it's led to 420 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 2: at the first opportunity, the first day of Parliament sitting 421 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 2: the tabling of that report, we can all throw rocks 422 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 2: from the outside and say how we got there. 423 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 3: At the end of the year, you're on the inside, right. 424 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 2: The right outcome has been made. We haven't had to 425 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 2: wait three hundred and forty three days for a report. 426 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 2: This has been tabled, and I think when you're trying 427 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 2: to you know, draw draw comparisons, I'm pretty sure the 428 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 2: Children's Commissioner never went back to work after those reports 429 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 2: were the public and the charges and all the rest 430 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 2: of it. So you know, they're both matters of public interest. 431 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 2: They're both matters in which. 432 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 3: Could the Chief Minister have spoken about this before the 433 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:41,360 Speaker 3: tabling on Tuesday? 434 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 2: And this is the whole process that we've gone. 435 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,199 Speaker 3: About the actual report and release it which Matt's just 436 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 3: given us. 437 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 2: When you're sitting in that could. 438 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 3: She have I'm asking you, you're a minister in government. 439 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 2: My understanding is that the first opportunity when we walked 440 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 2: into Parliament she tabled that report, and that. 441 00:22:58,200 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 3: You haven't done the work or your team hasn't done 442 00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:01,919 Speaker 3: that work to understand if she could have done that 443 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 3: before because she said there was legal advice, so you 444 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 3: would expect as a Minister of cabinet legal advice would 445 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,880 Speaker 3: have been spoken about, yes you can or no you can't. 446 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 2: What's important is it the process where we have got done. 447 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 2: This is the important thing. So Lenny, you can't throw 448 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,199 Speaker 2: rocks from the outside when your own government start to 449 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 2: report the thround. 450 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 3: Where releases of reports have happened before the parliamentary process. 451 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,160 Speaker 3: That's what we're talking about it and I think that. 452 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 2: Was done in the right way. You think your previous 453 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 2: government handled what happened with Chalka in the appropriate way. 454 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 2: They didn't. And that's where we've got. 455 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 3: To a point now a little bit of a topic 456 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 3: which we're talking about information that is high interest for 457 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 3: territories for the public being released or not released. I'm 458 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 3: asking you, with the discussion that we've just had, does 459 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 3: the information that well did the information the Chief Minister 460 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 3: have legally say that she could not release information about 461 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 3: that report prior to tabling it in the parliament because 462 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 3: the parliamentary information that was tabled was saying it was 463 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,199 Speaker 3: up to her her discretion as the Police Minister, to 464 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 3: be able to make that public through the tabling process. 465 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 3: That's the question mark. 466 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 2: That's not the process as I understand it that needs 467 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 2: to be followed. The process that needs to be followed 468 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 2: was the one that was taken and it's the one 469 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 2: where we're ensuring that we're trying to protect territories from 470 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 2: the absolute mess that we've seen in the past. 471 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: Josh, do you think that the Chief Minister has handled 472 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: this situation? 473 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 3: Well? 474 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 2: Absolutely, the Chief Minister one hundred percent has the backing 475 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 2: of the entire cabinent, of all of our colleagues. And 476 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 2: I think this is the thing. It's been a huge 477 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 2: rollercoaster writers. We've gone through this about what we can say, 478 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 2: what we can't say. And let's be really clear, neither yourself, 479 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,719 Speaker 2: Matt or Justine wanted to come out publicly and say this. 480 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,959 Speaker 2: I imagine out of fear of being sued. Well that's 481 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 2: the reality. Well, I think everyone supposedly knew who this 482 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 2: person was. I was sitting down out of springs. I 483 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,679 Speaker 2: had no idea. Apparently everyone in Darwin. 484 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 4: We were all seeking legal advice. 485 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, this is the thing. So I think it's 486 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 2: very rich to say, Oh, I didn't want to say 487 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 2: it because I was worried about being sued. Everyone's in 488 00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 2: that sube. 489 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 4: But Josh, I don't have I don't have the protection 490 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 4: of parliamentary privilege. And at any stage after that report 491 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 4: came out, the Chief Minister could have done what Justine 492 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 4: Davis did and said I am going to name this 493 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:16,919 Speaker 4: person at them, I know who this is. I'm going 494 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 4: to name this person in the next sitting of Parliament. 495 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 4: There was there was a gap between step by and 496 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 4: step by him out. 497 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 2: And when look at parliamentary privilege, and this is really 498 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 2: important because when you go about we've seen in federal 499 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 2: Parliament where people name certain people that have done things, 500 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 2: you need to also give the person that natural justice 501 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 2: that ability to have the reply, because I think in 502 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 2: all of this there's a person at the other end 503 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 2: of it all. So we've gone through a process to 504 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 2: ensure that we're protecting territorians, that we're protecting government everyone. 505 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 2: That's where we've got to. The report's been been tabled 506 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 2: in Parliament and now everyone can read it and see 507 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 2: for themselves and make the assertion if. 508 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 3: You've just said that a very important point around natural justice. 509 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 3: So your Chief Minister, the Police Minister went from nothing 510 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 3: to see here this is a learning tool. We will 511 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 3: move on. This is a learning exercise to oh, hang on, 512 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 3: we've got now the Police Commissioner announcing that it was 513 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 3: actually him who was the subject of the report. To 514 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 3: now we've asked the police commissioner to resign to actually 515 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 3: now we're sacking him late night on a Saturday and 516 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 3: now we're going to release it at you know, five 517 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 3: to nine on a Saturday night. So you know, you're 518 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 3: talking about affording natural justice. But even in that very 519 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 3: very short time frame, there's been no process of natural 520 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 3: justice from the outside. I'm not on the inside, so 521 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 3: from the outside. So you also have to understand that's 522 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 3: what territory are seeing. They're not seeing all of the 523 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 3: nitty gritty inside like you will. Perhaps you said that 524 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 3: you're not even included, but being able to understand what 525 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 3: those processes are. 526 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 2: I think in a couple of weeks, in a long 527 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 2: time in Parliament went from taking a long time to 528 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 2: now it's happened really quickly. That's been a complete backfron, isn't. 529 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 3: It, to announcing the to announcing the informations. 530 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,479 Speaker 1: I will say, go throughout this week there's actually from listeners, 531 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: there's actually been quite a lot of support for the 532 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 1: Chief Minister, people saying, you know, Katie, I'm glad she's 533 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: gone through this thoroughly and I'm glad she's actually you know, 534 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: made sure that she sought that legal advice so we 535 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: don't wind up in a situation like we wound up 536 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: with Jamie Chalker. That is like, that's a lot of 537 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: the messages that we've received. So I know not everybody 538 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: feels the same, but I actually it's been a long 539 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 1: time that since I've seen that level of support for 540 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,959 Speaker 1: a Chief Minister after they've made a difficult decision. And 541 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: again I will say, I know not everybody will agree 542 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 1: with that, but that has definitely come through on the 543 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 1: tech side this week, so I will I don't think 544 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: it's over. I do think that there's going to continue 545 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,719 Speaker 1: to be you know, some wash up on that, but 546 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: there is so much more to discuss this morning, so 547 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: we're gonna have to take a very quick break. You 548 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 1: are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty. 549 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 3: It is the week that was. 550 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: You are listening to the week that was. If you've 551 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: just joined us, well, we've got Selena Rubo, we have 552 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: got Matt Cunningham and Josh Burgoyne in the studio and 553 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: we know the government this week past the Territory Coordinator 554 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 1: Bill in Parliament. The Chief Minister Leofanocchiaro welcoming the passage 555 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: of the bill, highlighting its significance in redefining the way 556 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: business is done in the Northern Territory. She said that 557 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: the bill strengthens the ability to deliver economic growth, attract investment, 558 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: and streamline processes, also ensuring there are the right structures 559 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 1: in place to drive significant economic development opportunities efficiently and 560 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,199 Speaker 1: with certainty. Now, I've got to tell how I was 561 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: watching into the night on what night was it? Tuesday night? 562 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: I got to about nine o'clock and I was like, 563 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: I'm tapping out. I'm glad I tapped out when I 564 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: did because I had to be up at four point thirty. 565 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 4: So we need to get you some hobbies. 566 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: I've got plenty of hobbies. But watch. But I will 567 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: say that, like I always say on this, I watched Parliament, 568 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: so my listeners don't have to right. But it was 569 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,959 Speaker 1: a there was I don't think i've maybe I'm wrong, 570 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: but it felt like there were more amendments proposed to 571 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: that bill than anything I've ever seen before. 572 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 3: I think Justine Davies had seventy six and I remember 573 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 3: it was about ten thirty pm and she said, how 574 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 3: long do you reckon? Make? You know? Another hour or 575 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 3: so and I said, Justine, you've got seventy six amendments 576 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 3: plus hours plus the Chief Minister and the government has 577 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 3: some I said, we're only up to like thirty three 578 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 3: or time like that out of one hundred and five 579 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 3: Katie and I said, I reckon one O eight and 580 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 3: poor Cat and Justine, obviously new members to Parlam both 581 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 3: looked at me and they went no. And I said, oh, 582 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 3: we're going past midnight for sure. I said, but my guest, 583 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 3: I don't know why I picked one O eight. But 584 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 3: they were kept looking and they go. 585 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: Oh, you're Gettinglena. 586 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 3: We just went over one thirty. 587 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: It certainly went well into the night and into the morning. 588 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: Now I know that there were some protesting outside of 589 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: Parliament House on that Tuesday morning. We're not getting a 590 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: lot of opposition to the Territory Coordinator Bill to this show. 591 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 3: I know. 592 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: I'm sure that there are people who are concerned with 593 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: some of the change to that legislation, but by and large, 594 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: a lot of people are saying to me, I want 595 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,239 Speaker 1: to see things get moving in the Northern Territory. I 596 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: want to see those major projects moving. I want it 597 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: to know. I want businesses to be able to get 598 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: on with doing business so that we can see the 599 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: economy grow for our children, for the whole of the 600 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: Northern Territory. Yes, people still have concerns around the environment, 601 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: but I mean, do we already have the legislation in 602 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: place and have we already got it right. 603 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 3: When it comes to the environment. 604 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 2: So important, Katie, in regards to this Territory Coordinator Bill, 605 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 2: and it is literally in the name, it is to 606 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 2: coordinate projects so they get off the ground. What we've 607 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 2: seen after the last eight years of labor as we 608 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 2: saw a range of major projects that fell over the 609 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 2: Talassalt mine in our springs, we look at the Western 610 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 2: Hotel down at the waterfront, a whole op of things 611 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 2: that we didn't have someone really coordinating a response to 612 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 2: ensure all these things got across the line that they 613 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 2: had the necessary support. And the territory is a poorer 614 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 2: for it. We need to rebuild our economy, as your 615 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 2: listeners has been writing into you and saying, we need 616 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 2: to get things happening in the territory because in my 617 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 2: hometown of Ala Springs, people have been leaving. There's a 618 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 2: whole range of reasons they've been doing that crime, all 619 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 2: the rest of it but if they can make more 620 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 2: money elsewhere, if they can have a better life elsewhere, 621 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 2: they're going to move. And we want to ensure that 622 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 2: the territory is the best place to live, work and invest. 623 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 2: And that's what this is all about. It's about ensuring 624 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 2: that we coordinate all of our efforts so we can 625 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 2: make stuff happen in the territory, Okatie. 626 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 3: That's why our Labor opposition did our homework. We went 627 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 3: out and talked to people, we read submissions. Obviously there 628 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 3: was the Scrutiny Committee in the public hearings, and that's 629 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 3: why we offered all of those constructive amendments. You know, 630 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 3: none of ours got up. But interestingly, none of the 631 00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 3: Scrutiny Committee amendments, which have three seal members on one Labor, 632 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 3: one cross bench, none of the committe well actually three two. Sorry, 633 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 3: oh lie, I don't want to lie, I said two. 634 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 3: Two of the eighteen, Yeah, I don't want to lie. 635 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 3: People hate it when politicians lie, Katie. There were eighteen 636 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 3: recommendations from the Scrutiny Committee, led by the CLP backbenches, 637 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 3: and only two of those were adopted by the government. 638 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 3: So I find it quite interesting when you know we 639 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 3: were all working. We knew the bill was important for 640 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 3: the territory and that was obviously the signature bill that 641 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 3: the CLP government came to power within the election, so 642 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 3: we wanted to make it the best possible bill possible. 643 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 3: We've already talked already this morning, Katie about Aikak legislation 644 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 3: needing improvements. We felt that the Territory Coordinator Bill could 645 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 3: be improved. We wanted to be constructive. I always said, 646 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 3: we're not going to be oppositioned just for opposition's sake. 647 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 3: None of our amendments got up. None of Justin Davies' 648 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 3: seventy six amendments got up. Two of the eighteen recommendations 649 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 3: were adopted by the CLP government by the Chief Minness. 650 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 3: So who's the lead obviously for that Territory Coordinator Bill, 651 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 3: which is now an act or will soon be an 652 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 3: act once it's signed off. So we did want to 653 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 3: be constructive. But just in the last couple of weeks alone, Kate, 654 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 3: I've met with some really big businesses here in the territory, 655 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 3: industry leaders in some very important, you know, economic growth projects. 656 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 3: I won't name them on the show, but most of 657 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 3: them have said, oh look the Territory Coordinator Bill. You know, 658 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 3: we don't have a problem with it because it actually 659 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 3: doesn't even address the issues where we are finding the blockages, 660 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 3: which are some of the laws that are Commonwealth and 661 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 3: obviously the Territory Coordinator can't override anything that's Commonwealth law. 662 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 3: So it's not actually going to help some of those 663 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 3: big industry in major projects. And if it does help 664 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 3: the smaller ones, then that's going to be great for 665 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 3: the territory. We're very happy to support that, but some 666 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 3: of the big projects which are going too we imposted 667 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 3: in its form that it was voted through. We would 668 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 3: have been very happy if some of our amendments were accepted, Matt. 669 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 3: We would have been very happy to support that Territory 670 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 3: Coordinator Bill. But there were two key areas. One was 671 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 3: removing the Heritage Act of the Northern Territory out of 672 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 3: the schedule. There's thirty two pieces of legislation that the 673 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 3: Territory Coordinator can step in and out. And the other 674 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 3: was local government. We've seen Local Government Association of the 675 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 3: Northern Territory come out with a very strong statement Regional councils, 676 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 3: municipal councils didn't want to see Local Government Act in 677 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,800 Speaker 3: and COLP had it in, they took it out and 678 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 3: then they put it back in. 679 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 4: What are the Commonwealth laws that people are talking to 680 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 4: you about that Some of. 681 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,320 Speaker 3: The Commonwealth laws particularly it's around you know, land access, 682 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 3: so obviously Native Title Average Land Rights Act, you know 683 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 3: coming in under that. 684 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 4: So I think there needs to be some reform in 685 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 4: that area. 686 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,359 Speaker 3: I think that the industry knows where some of those 687 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,839 Speaker 3: blockages are and it's working with them. It's also making 688 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 3: sure that we always have supportive members like we do 689 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 3: with Mulander McCarthy, Marion Scrimdaw and Luke gosling around those 690 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 3: Commonwealth laws in the territory. 691 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: One of the things I was really interested in over 692 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,760 Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks is I had Catherine Tilmouth 693 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: on from the Minerals Council talking about, you know, the 694 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: delays to projects or approvals. We've got mines that have 695 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,839 Speaker 1: been waiting for approval literally for years and years. But 696 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: also you know, I was trying to wrap my head 697 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: around why that approvals process under the former government ended 698 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 1: up in the Department of Environment like you would have 699 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 1: thought that Mining and Resources, like I would have thought 700 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: they actually have their own area where they're really trying 701 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: to get things moving quite quickly, and like I'm not 702 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 1: even talking gas here, I'm talking like, you know, different 703 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: rare earths, things that we used to obviously make batteries 704 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 1: and you know, for solar panels and that kind of thing. 705 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,320 Speaker 1: I was actually quite surprised to hear that that change 706 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: had happened. Whenever it did happen, and the impact that 707 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: it's having. 708 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 3: Katie, there has been some positive stories in that sense 709 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 3: when obviously the public services improving some of those processes, 710 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,280 Speaker 3: those processes that people get frustrated when they hear about 711 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 3: it that industry talks about red tape and administrative burden. 712 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 3: Tenant Creek Mining I spoke about this yesterday in Parliament. 713 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 3: They went from twelvemonth process of being approved to now 714 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:09,800 Speaker 3: a very progressed in the construction of the physical site. 715 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 3: I did a site visit there a couple of weeks 716 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,279 Speaker 3: ago when I was down in TenneT Kreeg. And that's 717 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 3: a new gold mine. So that's going to create a 718 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 3: whole amount of opportunities for jobs for the circular economy, 719 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,760 Speaker 3: for the territory economy around that new mind being established. 720 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 3: But a twelve month process, and I don't think we've 721 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 3: seen that in the previous years. So that's a good 722 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 3: story for the territory to have those processes then be streamlined. 723 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 3: And perhaps now we'll see more of that than the 724 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 3: Territory Coordinator. But that was the work of the public service. 725 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting because I think a lot of people 726 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 4: have the view that the public service is slowing things 727 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 4: down too much rather than fast tracking them. The Darwin 728 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,399 Speaker 4: Major Business Group's got an event today. It's just put 729 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 4: out a report that has just been made public today 730 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 4: that it's talking about, and it talks about a couple 731 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 4: of really interesting things. And one it talks about is 732 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 4: our debt right which is tracking towards fifteen billion dollars 733 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 4: and has been. And that's a problem that's been created 734 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 4: largely by the size of our public service. If you 735 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,720 Speaker 4: go back and look at the Territory government's own reporting 736 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,359 Speaker 4: to Budget Repair from twenty nineteen, you'll see that from 737 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 4: nine to eighty three to about two thousand and two 738 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 4: two thousand and three, the public service remained steady at 739 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 4: between fourteen and fifteen thousand people. As of the last 740 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 4: State of the State's report, So twenty years on from 741 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 4: two thousand and well twenty three years on from then, 742 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 4: we're now looking at almost twenty three thousand full time 743 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 4: equivalent employees in the public service, and you have to 744 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 4: wonder whether they are making life easier or making life 745 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 4: harder for people trying to do business here. And if 746 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,279 Speaker 4: it is the latter, I think that is what needs 747 00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,280 Speaker 4: to change. And I think that's what the Territory Coordinator 748 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 4: Bill is all about, right, And if it wasn't for 749 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 4: that inertia within the bureaucracy, you know, people wouldn't have 750 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,479 Speaker 4: voted in spades for the Territory Coordinator. And I also 751 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,879 Speaker 4: I also find it a little bit funny that there's 752 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 4: this argument that somehow the Territory Coordinator is undemocratic. That's 753 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 4: one of the arguments against that. There's been put out there, 754 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 4: that this is an assault on democracy. Well, the COLP 755 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,760 Speaker 4: took this policy to the election last year, and they. 756 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 1: Took it to the last one as well. 757 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:27,800 Speaker 3: They the one. 758 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 4: Before they may well have done. They certainly took it. 759 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 4: They certainly took it to the election in twenty four 760 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,840 Speaker 4: It was no secret they won an absolute landslide victory. 761 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 4: They won seventeen of the twenty five seats in the Assembly, right, 762 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 4: and then they're enacting what they said they were going 763 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 4: to do. It is the very essence of democracy. 764 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,360 Speaker 2: What is happening an interesting process, and if. 765 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 4: The people who are protesting want to change it, all 766 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 4: they have to do is find enough people who oppose 767 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 4: it to them win thirteen seats in the Legislative Assembly 768 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,919 Speaker 4: and then through a democratic process, take it over town. 769 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 2: I feel like it's been the most consultant on bill 770 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,760 Speaker 2: that we've gone through. I actually pulled up my speech 771 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 2: from March twenty twenty one when we last spoke about 772 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 2: the Territory Coordinator Bill, and as an opposition we tried 773 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 2: to move it through Parliament. There's been a huge It's 774 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 2: gone through scrutiny committee, which we've brought back. 775 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,839 Speaker 3: But then you didn't adopt all of the recommendations which members. 776 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 2: Which which again as a government, we don't have to 777 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 2: adopt all those recommendation. There's been a process, has been 778 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 2: a process that we went through. Yeah, exactly. Been struggling 779 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:31,719 Speaker 2: to get a word in this morning, Katie. 780 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 3: I got to be quick. 781 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,239 Speaker 2: There's been this bill has been consulted on further than 782 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 2: any other piece of legislation I can remember over the 783 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,800 Speaker 2: last four or five years. So this is what we've taken. 784 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 2: As Matt said to the people, we've now passed it through. 785 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 2: We want to see development when we want to rebuild 786 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,359 Speaker 2: the economy, and my department in Lands and Planning are 787 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 2: working to ensure that we work through the backlog. I 788 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 2: got the figures the other day. There was something like 789 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty approvals that were outstanding when all 790 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,160 Speaker 2: these changes happened. And since we've come in the government, 791 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,799 Speaker 2: we've been working through that. I think sixty have now 792 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,840 Speaker 2: been worked through. So you know, I've been saying to 793 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:07,760 Speaker 2: my department, we need to make sure that we're moving 794 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 2: heaven and earth to ensure that we're doing all the 795 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 2: right things, having all the protections in place, but we're 796 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 2: giving people a definite yes or no because that's what 797 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 2: people need for business. 798 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,320 Speaker 3: You're going to remove some of those protections, aren't you, Josh, 799 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 3: we are come on, we are going. 800 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: To have to take a quick break. You are listening 801 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 1: to Mix one OW four nine's three sixty. It is 802 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,439 Speaker 1: the week that was. You are listening to the week 803 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 1: that was, And it has been a busy morning. It's 804 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 1: been a busy week and we know that the government 805 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,239 Speaker 1: have announced it they're going to be taking action on 806 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 1: anti social behavior to claw back thirty nine million dollars 807 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 1: in renterrears by introducing public housing reform this week. So 808 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,320 Speaker 1: a number of changes set to come into play, including 809 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: strengthening policy to fast track pathways to a viction, a 810 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:55,320 Speaker 1: full review of visitor management, tennessee tenancy management and red 811 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,320 Speaker 1: card policy, Debt management policy reform are a view of 812 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,320 Speaker 1: the Housing Act and making recommendations to the Attorney General's 813 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: Office for the Residential Tenancies Act to also align with 814 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: community expectations. I got so many messages about this yesterday 815 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: on the show. People are like Wolfie, I live next 816 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 1: door to, you know, to a public housing tenant who X, 817 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,839 Speaker 1: y Z. You know, like people saying they've seen some 818 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,440 Speaker 1: real issues over the years, and it's one of those 819 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: things I think that you know, you can have a 820 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,960 Speaker 1: beautiful family living in a public housing tendancy in your street, 821 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,640 Speaker 1: then for whatever reason, someone you know, they move out, 822 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: or visitors come to town or whatever happens, and all 823 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,680 Speaker 1: of a sudden it turns into a bit of a 824 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,839 Speaker 1: nightmare for people. Depending on the situation, that is unfolding now. 825 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 1: I will say many years ago I worked for the 826 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: Housing Minister, Rob Knight, many many years ago, and it's 827 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 1: not an easy portfolio to manage, there is no doubt 828 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:56,560 Speaker 1: about it. 829 00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 3: That scarred from ash. 830 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,480 Speaker 1: You know, people like obviously there are people that need 831 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 1: public housing and I would never dispute that, but I've 832 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,759 Speaker 1: got a real issue with people they're not treating their 833 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:16,920 Speaker 1: public housing in an appropriate manner and wreaking havoc on 834 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 1: those around them. 835 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 2: And as local members, this is definitely the number one 836 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,440 Speaker 2: thing that comes to us in regards to any social behavior, 837 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,800 Speaker 2: in regards to the yards not being looked after, rubbish 838 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 2: being left everywhere. It's really good to see the Housing Minister, 839 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,600 Speaker 2: Steve Edgington making this a priority. Since coming to government, 840 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,440 Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of change in this area. There's 841 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 2: still a lot more that needs to occur, just making 842 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 2: this a priority once again. We know that there's a 843 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 2: huge waiting list. We know there's people on those waiting 844 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,799 Speaker 2: lists that really need housing. So we need to ensure 845 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,439 Speaker 2: that if people are in there that aren't looking after 846 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,719 Speaker 2: the homes, that aren't doing the right thing. How can 847 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 2: we ensure that people that are going to do the 848 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,640 Speaker 2: right thing and not destroy the neighborhood and not create 849 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,279 Speaker 2: any social behavior for everyone. How we can ensure that 850 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,600 Speaker 2: we can get those people in those homes look after 851 00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,160 Speaker 2: the places. Ollie Carlson she every time she speaks in 852 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,839 Speaker 2: Parliament she brings a tea. Tomorrow. She spoke about her 853 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:07,040 Speaker 2: family coming here literally as new migrants, getting public housing. 854 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,759 Speaker 2: They looked after their place. They did everything right. And 855 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 2: probably one of the greatest things that I've been able 856 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 2: to achieve through my short career in politics was actually 857 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,280 Speaker 2: working with a local constituent to be able to buy 858 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 2: her public housing property and take ownership of it. It 859 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 2: was a great process. It was a long process, Katie, 860 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 2: I can tell you it wasn't easy. But to be 861 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,239 Speaker 2: able to see that she's now paying off her own 862 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,960 Speaker 2: mortgage rather than paying rent every week, that's what we 863 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,800 Speaker 2: should be working towards. Not enough of that happens. 864 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,840 Speaker 4: And the people I feel most sorry for, to your point, Josh, 865 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 4: is that the people who do the right thing. So 866 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,960 Speaker 4: I live not far from a public housing block in Nightcliffe, 867 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,080 Speaker 4: that the new one next to the Nightcliff police station, 868 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,279 Speaker 4: and I've been down there and had some conversations with 869 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,440 Speaker 4: people down there, and the people who are the people 870 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,160 Speaker 4: who are most affected and most upset by the unruly 871 00:43:56,239 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 4: behavior of public housing tenants are fellow public housing tenants 872 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,879 Speaker 4: who are doing the right thing, but doing yeah, who 873 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 4: just want to live in peace and are unable to 874 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:11,480 Speaker 4: do so because of the reckless and unruly behavior of others. 875 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,359 Speaker 4: That I was down there a few weeks ago and 876 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,759 Speaker 4: someone had gone through and smashed every windscreen in the 877 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,040 Speaker 4: car park below that public housing unit block. And so 878 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:25,040 Speaker 4: then you've got people who you know, up from the 879 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,920 Speaker 4: lowest socioeconomic backgrounds, right who you need a car to 880 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:30,719 Speaker 4: get to work, you know, and then all of a 881 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:33,400 Speaker 4: sudden they wake up in the morning and their windscreen's 882 00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,640 Speaker 4: been smashed, and they're like, wow, my whole day stuff. 883 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:37,080 Speaker 4: I'm not going to be able to work today. They're 884 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,200 Speaker 4: probably a casual employee, they don't get paid suddenly, you know, 885 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,040 Speaker 4: and that just puts me more trouble. And if you 886 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,000 Speaker 4: don't crack down on the people doing the wrong thing, 887 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,960 Speaker 4: you know, it affects the people. And there are more 888 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,319 Speaker 4: people doing the right thing, it affects those ones. The 889 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,799 Speaker 4: thing I've found most extraordinary about they released it came 890 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,719 Speaker 4: out yesterday was there was one case where there was 891 00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,759 Speaker 4: there was a public housing tenants who'd had sixty two 892 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 4: red cards and they've been moved from one house and 893 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:03,600 Speaker 4: just putting into another. And since they've been put in 894 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,319 Speaker 4: the other one, there'd been one hundred and fifty eight 895 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,359 Speaker 4: or something, you know, reports of anti social behavior. I mean, 896 00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,760 Speaker 4: what's the number where you say enough's enough? It's clearly 897 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,120 Speaker 4: more than one hundred and fifty eight. 898 00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,839 Speaker 1: You would certainly think so, wouldn't you. 899 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,200 Speaker 3: And Kanie is a former housing minister obviously understand all 900 00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:24,000 Speaker 3: the challenges that are presented when it comes to public housing, 901 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,439 Speaker 3: whether it's in an urban area or a remote area. 902 00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 3: You know, I'm interested to see what else the government's 903 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,439 Speaker 3: going to do in the housing space because I think 904 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,680 Speaker 3: that you know, if we're talking about antisocial behavior, is 905 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:37,799 Speaker 3: this just kicking the can down the road? Are we 906 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,880 Speaker 3: just looking and to see what the process that the 907 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:43,960 Speaker 3: CLP is going to undertake. Are they just going to 908 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,160 Speaker 3: move antisocial behavior from houses to the streets. What is 909 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 3: that going to do? Is it going to double the 910 00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,839 Speaker 3: cost for territories When it comes to police responses, when 911 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,240 Speaker 3: it comes to our justice system, if we're talking about 912 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,759 Speaker 3: antisocial behavior, what is the CLP government doing about the 913 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,880 Speaker 3: actual behavior? Not just removing people from houses? Where are 914 00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,719 Speaker 3: those people going to go? Obviously there's probably not a 915 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,160 Speaker 3: care from the government where they go. But I believe 916 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,080 Speaker 3: that they're going to go to the streets, to our businesses, 917 00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,440 Speaker 3: to our shopping centers, and that antisocial behavior is going 918 00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,319 Speaker 3: to continue there, and what is the government going to 919 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:15,719 Speaker 3: do about that? 920 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,680 Speaker 1: It is certainly something I asked Steve Edgington yesterday, the 921 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,480 Speaker 1: Housing Minister. I mean, Josh, like, that's the tough part 922 00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,160 Speaker 1: of this is as much as people are doing the 923 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,640 Speaker 1: wrong thing and do not deserve then if they're being 924 00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:28,160 Speaker 1: you know, like if you've got one hundred and fifty 925 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,960 Speaker 1: eight complaints against you, but where do they go? Like 926 00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,040 Speaker 1: that's and you know, I kind of look at it 927 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,320 Speaker 1: and go, how are we not managing these tendencies better 928 00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,080 Speaker 1: or differently? First off, to make sure we're not getting 929 00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,719 Speaker 1: into the rental areas that we're seeing in some of 930 00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,000 Speaker 1: these situations. But you know, I like to try and 931 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:46,600 Speaker 1: stop it before it gets to that point. 932 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 2: And I think this is the issue that I see 933 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,000 Speaker 2: in my own electorate all the time is that a 934 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:51,719 Speaker 2: house will be destroyed to such a point that it 935 00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:53,319 Speaker 2: can no longer be lived in. So when you talk 936 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,560 Speaker 2: about how we going to find houses for everyone, we 937 00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,400 Speaker 2: need to ensure that the housing stock we have is 938 00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,640 Speaker 2: being looked after so people can actually be in it 939 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,040 Speaker 2: then repair and or if it's no longer repaarable beyond 940 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,399 Speaker 2: economic repair, we need to look at how we deal 941 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,759 Speaker 2: with those current housing properties because we need to get 942 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,279 Speaker 2: more stock in the market. It's certainly things that we're 943 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,160 Speaker 2: looking at. I remember back when I was a sparky, 944 00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,440 Speaker 2: we used to work with people in the correction system 945 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,759 Speaker 2: to try to get these houses back online. A lot 946 00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:18,480 Speaker 2: of that's dropped away, and we're now looking at how 947 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,160 Speaker 2: we can essentially get more stock in the market and 948 00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:22,120 Speaker 2: more people in the race. 949 00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:25,440 Speaker 1: Can I just ask Selena, as a forming former housing minister, 950 00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:27,560 Speaker 1: how did we reach a point where it was like 951 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,960 Speaker 1: seventy one million dollars I think in rental areas that 952 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:35,560 Speaker 1: got wiped We're now back at thirty nine million dollars 953 00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,400 Speaker 1: in rental areas. Like, is there not some kind of 954 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,959 Speaker 1: process in place? Or can it there not be? Or 955 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,040 Speaker 1: you know, like you told me, how is it managed? 956 00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:45,400 Speaker 1: If someone's in rental areas. 957 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:47,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, there is a process in place, and there's sort 958 00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,000 Speaker 3: of two issues when we talk about this. Obviously the 959 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,440 Speaker 3: dollar figure the money. If someone is falling behind in 960 00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,120 Speaker 3: the rent or just not paying, what is the intensive 961 00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,759 Speaker 3: case management that is being worked with that person to 962 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,680 Speaker 3: get them back on track, to get them paying properly 963 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,359 Speaker 3: and to then obviously pay off some of that debt. 964 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,239 Speaker 3: So that's one issue there. The other one is if 965 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,880 Speaker 3: it is related to antisocial behavior, what is the intensive 966 00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,520 Speaker 3: case management there. There was a program that was worked 967 00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,160 Speaker 3: on formerly under the Labor government which was around the 968 00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:21,800 Speaker 3: response for public housing and support, but particularly an urban focus. 969 00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,400 Speaker 3: I'll give you the example of this, which was Housing Officers, 970 00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:29,760 Speaker 3: Territory families or now what would it be DCF children Families, 971 00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:35,000 Speaker 3: territory families, Housing and police all info sharing because often 972 00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,840 Speaker 3: we found when there were reports made to police about 973 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:42,399 Speaker 3: anti social behavior in urban public housing, then so I've 974 00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,880 Speaker 3: just got distracted by the giant monopoly menods walking outside. 975 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,880 Speaker 1: Yes, sorry, something happening at this radio session. 976 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,960 Speaker 3: If there was police reports, and sometimes multiple police reports, 977 00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,560 Speaker 3: that was not necessarily transferred across to housing unless there 978 00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:00,719 Speaker 3: was a separate report made to the House departments. So 979 00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,319 Speaker 3: that info sharing the left arm and the right not 980 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,279 Speaker 3: knowing what they're doing is completely frustrating for territorial So 981 00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,000 Speaker 3: how do you make that government process better? But then 982 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,080 Speaker 3: going back to the issue Katie, anti social behavior, if 983 00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:13,880 Speaker 3: it's being kicked out of a house, where does it 984 00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:15,560 Speaker 3: go and how we're going to deal with thatch? 985 00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,239 Speaker 1: Do people deserve to keep that house if they're not 986 00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:19,640 Speaker 1: making the right thing? 987 00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,560 Speaker 3: Katie, absolutely not. But then why they're not doing the 988 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:24,440 Speaker 3: right thing. If they've been given a chance to do 989 00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:26,839 Speaker 3: the right thing and they still haven't rectified either that 990 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:30,440 Speaker 3: behavior or the rental arrears, then obviously the government is 991 00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,640 Speaker 3: going to go through a more punity approach and a 992 00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,600 Speaker 3: victim that's you know, that's the prerogative there, The processes 993 00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:40,600 Speaker 3: are there, and I absolutely acknowledge that. But where does 994 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,040 Speaker 3: that behavior then go, Katie, to our streets and it's 995 00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,799 Speaker 3: going to cost the dollars to taxpayers and territorial. Look, 996 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,000 Speaker 3: we are going to have to wrap up. 997 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,359 Speaker 1: I've got so many messages coming through. I'll get to 998 00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,480 Speaker 1: those shortly, but that is it for us this morning. 999 00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:56,400 Speaker 1: Josh Burgwyne, the Minister for various portfolios, including lands and planning. 1000 00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,480 Speaker 1: Good to have you in the studio this morning. 1001 00:49:58,520 --> 00:49:58,880 Speaker 3: Thank you. 1002 00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:00,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks Katie to I want to shout out it's 1003 00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:02,799 Speaker 2: well down syndrome day to day, so if you wear 1004 00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,200 Speaker 2: odd socks or crazy socks, it points out that we 1005 00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:06,600 Speaker 2: are more alike than different. 1006 00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,480 Speaker 1: Oh that's a good one. I wish i'd have realized 1007 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,600 Speaker 1: I would have worn some crazy socks. Matt Cunningham from 1008 00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,200 Speaker 1: Sky News, Thank you so much for your time this morning. 1009 00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:19,600 Speaker 1: Thanks Selena Yuvo, the Opposition leader. Thank you so much 1010 00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:20,480 Speaker 1: for your time today. 1011 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:22,560 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me Katie. Much more fun being 1012 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:24,560 Speaker 3: in the studio than being on the lining from cat 1013 00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:32,240 Speaker 3: somebody is well. Thank you to cut you off. Good 1014 00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:34,040 Speaker 3: on you all. Thanks so much for your time.