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Speaker 1: Joining me on the line right now is Charles Darwin

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Speaker 1: University lecturer in psychology, doctor Tim pitt Kofski. Good morning

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Speaker 1: to you, Tim.

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Speaker 2: How are you.

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Speaker 1: Let me try that again? Good morning to you Tim?

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Speaker 2: How are you hey? Good? Thanks?

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Speaker 1: Good mate? Sorry, just having some tech issues there that

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Speaker 1: are always operate an error on my behalf. Now, we

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Speaker 1: know that the Northern Territory Parliament's got a lot on

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Speaker 1: the agenda in the final sittings of the year. Already

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Speaker 1: they've passed the anti discrimination amendments and changes to make

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Speaker 1: it easier to access life saving medications. But a middle

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Speaker 1: of those changes, there were also some changes pasts that

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Speaker 1: are going to impact territory vapors. Tim talk us through

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Speaker 1: what those changes were.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so just specifically, that new bill passed yesterday just

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Speaker 2: add some clarity. So it makes it clear that common

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Speaker 2: law applies to persons as well, not just businesses in

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Speaker 2: the NT. So in twenty nineteen there was an amendment

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Speaker 2: made and basically vaping products were treated the same as

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Speaker 2: tobacco products essentially, so nicotine vaping products has been illegal

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Speaker 2: to supply except under a doctor's prescription since October twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty one. But obviously people import and export things as individuals.

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Speaker 2: This makes it super clear just around all of those things.

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Speaker 1: How do you reckon it's going to impact people who

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Speaker 1: do vape?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Look, you know, originally vaping products were introduced early

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Speaker 2: two thousand to help people quit, right, so all reduce consumption,

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Speaker 2: and so e cigarettes were initially the safer alternatives to

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Speaker 2: smoking tobacco due to you know, lower toxicity and things

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Speaker 2: like that. But there's just a lack of evidence about

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Speaker 2: what harms could arise, you know, in I think the

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Speaker 2: starts from the National Health Survey found one in ten

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Speaker 2: Australians vape, yeah, and two point two percent of current

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Speaker 2: US somewhere around that. So we've got some evidence to suggest,

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Speaker 2: you know, short term health effects of vaping aren't super

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Speaker 2: you know, increased respiratory complications, cardiovascular risks. We don't know

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Speaker 2: what the long term effects are, and so I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, this is this is one of those sort

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Speaker 2: of moves to protect people's health given that we just

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Speaker 2: we don't know.

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Speaker 1: Butry like, that's the frightening part, isn't it That we

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Speaker 1: don't know? And there seems to be unfortunately quite a

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Speaker 1: lot of young people vaping.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And so because of that access, right, because

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Speaker 2: a lot of people and I've got a master's student

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Speaker 2: working in this area at the moment looking at behavior

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Speaker 2: change around bathing because we've got a lot of you know,

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Speaker 2: people potentially importing they liquid from China with nicotine in it.

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Speaker 2: There's just you know, there there has been a lot

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Speaker 2: of anecdotal reports of large uptake among young people and

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Speaker 2: then this gateway sort of hypothesis that you know, vaping

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Speaker 2: leads to other substance use.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, Now tell me do you think, like with

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Speaker 1: this move that the Northern Territory government's made, do you

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Speaker 1: think it's going to force vapors to switch to the

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Speaker 1: likes of cigarettes.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's a tough one to tell, isn't it. Who knows?

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Speaker 2: I think really realistically, look, there's still a lot of

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Speaker 2: people that don't necessarily have nicotine in the you know,

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Speaker 2: they just like the flavor and they'll just have the

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Speaker 2: vape irrespective of the content. It will be very interesting

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Speaker 2: to see how it plays out, and I'll be encouraging

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Speaker 2: my student to monitor that situation carefully.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be really interested to hear how it sort

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Speaker 1: of goes as well. You know a lot of people

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Speaker 1: listening this morning, you're going to be thinking they don't

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Speaker 1: know a huge amount about vaping, and you know, wondering

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Speaker 1: like is it safe.

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Speaker 2: Look so, in terms of the vaping itself, there is

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Speaker 2: some evidence to suggest that heating that vapor and what's

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Speaker 2: happening there can in fact cause some lung toxicity, can

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Speaker 2: cause cardiovascular toxicity just in and of itself. Also, there's

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Speaker 2: this issue that vapes aren't really regulated, and so some

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Speaker 2: of these products are made in unregulated factories in China,

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Speaker 2: for example, and therefore when the metal gets heated, it

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Speaker 2: can release you know, other types of toxins and so,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's tough to say, but there could be

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Speaker 2: issues that arise from that. Not to mention obviously, once

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Speaker 2: you start adding katine or other things, and there's other

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Speaker 2: issues that arise from that. So it's really like a

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Speaker 2: two prong sort of effect. And you know, a bit

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Speaker 2: more regulation in the industry, like in terms of regulating

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Speaker 2: the quality of debate, regulating the quality of the liquid,

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Speaker 2: things like that could definitely assist in reducing those times.

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Speaker 2: But at the moment it's been a bit of a

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Speaker 2: free for all four while.

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Speaker 1: Well, and that was going to be my next question, Tim,

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Speaker 1: you know whether you do feel as though, like in

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Speaker 1: your opinion, are there enough regulations in place right now?

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Speaker 2: Look, this is this is one attempt to I guess,

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Speaker 2: constrain users options a little bit more. It would be

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Speaker 2: good to see more stakeholder engagement, so more you know,

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Speaker 2: discussions with all the people involved to see what they think,

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Speaker 2: the barriers and the facilitators are, to see what they think,

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Speaker 2: invaders themselves, to see what they think should be done.

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Speaker 2: I always think, you know, a strong public health approach

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Speaker 2: is driven by the consumers or the clients for one

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Speaker 2: of a better word, and so really easy to see

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Speaker 2: what those people think because perhaps they have some good ideas.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And again though I suppose the tough thing at

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Speaker 1: the moment, or it seems to be the tough thing,

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Speaker 1: is the fact that that young people seem to sort

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Speaker 1: of be vaping, and it like right across the board.

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Speaker 1: I feel as though it's a concern even within school,

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Speaker 1: the school and everywhere at the moment where you know,

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Speaker 1: young people don't seem to see it as being as

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Speaker 1: dangerous is what we sort of know that smoking is.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I'll throw a statistic at you, so

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Speaker 2: between about twenty fifteen and twenty twenty, we saw e

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Speaker 2: cigarette just rise by young people by about ninety percent.

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Speaker 2: I think it was so pretty high. Whether I think

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Speaker 2: whether there's nicotine in there or not is going to

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Speaker 2: make a little bit of a difference, But then you know,

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Speaker 2: the behavior itself could be linked to then go on

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Speaker 2: to do other similar things eg. You know, smoke, tobacco, EG, smoke,

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Speaker 2: cannabis EG, so on and so forth. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's why we're having such a knee jack effect around it.

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Speaker 2: You know, everybody cares about what the younger generation is

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Speaker 2: going to go on and do, and so you know,

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Speaker 2: if they're all smoking, they're all vaping, then I think

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Speaker 2: we just we don't know enough about the health consequences

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Speaker 2: and we don't know what what gateway that opens to

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Speaker 2: other substances and behaviors.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, Tim, a really fascinating discussion this morning. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate you coming on and telling us a little bit

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Speaker 1: more about those legislative changes, but also speaking a bit

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Speaker 1: more generally about that about vaping.

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Speaker 2: Cool. Thank you, Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Thank you