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Speaker 1: Already and this is the daily This is the daily os.

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Speaker 2: Oh, now it makes sense.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily Odds. It's Tuesday,

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Speaker 3: the fourteenth of January.

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Speaker 2: I'm Zara, I'm Nandini.

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Speaker 1: In the US, we've seen a shift among major corporations

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Speaker 1: which are walking away from their commitments and policies around

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Speaker 1: diversity and inclusion. Over the weekend, Meta, the parent company

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Speaker 1: of Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp, halted its diversity, equity and

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Speaker 1: inclusion programs, or DE programs. Meta ending their DE programs

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Speaker 1: means rolling back diversity efforts when it comes to hiring

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Speaker 1: new staff, working with suppliers, and increasing representation in leadership positions.

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Speaker 1: Just last week we saw McDonald's make a very similar move,

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Speaker 1: and also Walmart towards the end of twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so Nandini the reason talking about this today because

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Speaker 3: over the weekend, Meta announced that they were walking back

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Speaker 3: their diversity and inclusion practices. I want to first focus

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Speaker 3: on them, and then I guess go a bit broader

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Speaker 3: and understand what is happening across the US that we're

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Speaker 3: really seeing here. So just starting off with Meta, who

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Speaker 3: we have really dedicated a lot of podcast space too recently.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, what.

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Speaker 3: Was their announcement over the weekend? What are the changes

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Speaker 3: that they are pushing forward here?

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Speaker 1: So they issued a statement to their staff citing this

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Speaker 1: shift in America's legal and policy landscape surrounding diversity, equity

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Speaker 1: and inclusion efforts. It basically said the term DEI has

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Speaker 1: become charged as it suggests preferential treatment of some groups

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Speaker 1: over others. So Meta has maintained their stance that their

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Speaker 1: principles are pretty much the same. They've said that we

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Speaker 1: serve everyone, fairness and objectivity for all, and never making

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Speaker 1: hiring decisions based on protected characteristics. These are things like

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Speaker 1: ethnicity or gender.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so there's some pretty lofty language being used there

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Speaker 3: about you know, trying to exist amid changing legal and

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Speaker 3: policy landscapes and all of you know, the words that

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Speaker 3: we have had there. What are they actually doing though, Like,

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Speaker 3: what is tangibly changing for people who are trying to

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Speaker 3: be hired or work at Meta currently?

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Speaker 1: So, firstly, they're no longer going to be using something

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Speaker 1: called the.

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Speaker 2: Diverse slate approach. What's that?

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Speaker 1: And so this is basically a type of hiring method

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Speaker 1: which involves a recruitment team going through applicants and making

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Speaker 1: a pool of diverse candidates. That sort of represents the

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Speaker 1: diversity of an area through a pool of applicants, and

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Speaker 1: then the chosen candidate is taken from that specific pool. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Meta is saying that they're no longer going to use

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Speaker 1: this approach and that instead they're going to continue to

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Speaker 1: source candidates from different backgrounds. What approach they'll use, we

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Speaker 1: don't know. Alongside changing their approach to ethnic diversity, though,

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Speaker 1: Meta has also looked at gender based initiatives, so the

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Speaker 1: company has said that it's culling its representation goals for

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Speaker 1: women and ethnic minorities. Meta said that these sort of

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Speaker 1: goals can create the impression that decisions are being made

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Speaker 1: purely on race or gender.

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Speaker 2: And that's what Meta's saying here.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's taken directly from their statement. The company also

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Speaker 1: had a team that was centered on diversity, equity and inclusion,

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Speaker 1: which was headed by women named Maxine Williams. She is

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Speaker 1: now being moved into a new position, which Meta says

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Speaker 1: is going to focus on accessibility and engagement, So a

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Speaker 1: change of language there and focus overall. It looks like

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Speaker 1: Meta seems to be taking more of this blanket approach

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Speaker 1: where instead of trying to improve diversity by focusing on

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Speaker 1: certain minority groups, they are mitigating bias for all their words,

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Speaker 1: in the sense that they're focusing on everyone and just

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Speaker 1: treating everyone equally. That's sort of their approach or angle

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Speaker 1: that they're taking.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems to be this like I don't want

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Speaker 3: to use the word trend, but it does seem to

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Speaker 3: be this trend that is emerging in the US of

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Speaker 3: there being huge corporations walking back their commitments to diversity

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Speaker 3: and inclusion. You know, we wrote about McDonald's doing the

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Speaker 3: same thing just last week. I know that Walmart did

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Speaker 3: a similar thing at the end of last year. Can

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Speaker 3: you just provide, I guess, a bit of context on

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Speaker 3: where this is all coming from, Why is this happening now,

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Speaker 3: and what started this shift.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back real quick to the nineteen seventies, and

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Speaker 1: I want to focus on universities for a second, because

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Speaker 1: the US Supreme Court made a decision that would allow

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Speaker 1: universities to consider students race when it comes to enrollment applications.

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Speaker 1: This is what we call affirmative action. Essentially, it aims

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Speaker 1: to correct historic prejudices faced by minority groups by actively

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Speaker 1: considering diversity when choosing and going through applicants.

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Speaker 3: And so in the US, this was the beginning, I guess,

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Speaker 3: of the diversity quota conversation, and that was all around

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Speaker 3: affirmative action, and that began happening at universities exactly.

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Speaker 1: And so several American universities then started to introduce affirmative

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Speaker 1: action programs following this decision that was made about fifty

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Speaker 1: years ago. Now, so that was sort of the lay

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Speaker 1: of the lands. And then in twenty fourteen, a lawsuit

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Speaker 1: came up, led by an organization called Students for Fair Admissions.

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Speaker 1: They took legal action against Harvard alleging that affirmative action

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Speaker 1: discriminates against white and Asian American students. Now let's fast

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Speaker 1: forward to June twenty twenty three, so about a year

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Speaker 1: and a half ago, the US Supreme Court ruled in

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Speaker 1: favor of banning affirmative action from university admissions. This means

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Speaker 1: that universities had to shut down their affirmative action programs

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Speaker 1: or entry schemes. When this decision was handed down, Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: who is now the President elect, said that he would

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Speaker 1: eliminate diversity programs.

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Speaker 2: Too vigorously enforced yesterday's Supreme Court ruling I will eliminate

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Speaker 2: all diversity, equity and inclusion programs of course the entire

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Speaker 2: federal govenue.

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Speaker 3: There has been a bit of time since the Supreme

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Speaker 3: Court ruled against affirmative action in these educational institutions, whereas

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Speaker 3: the kind of corporations moving away from DEI is more recent.

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Speaker 3: Have we had any insights into whether it's changed how

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Speaker 3: admissions look at universities since affirmative action was outlawed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So since this decision came through, a couple universities

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Speaker 1: did release their enrollment data, which gives insight into the

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Speaker 1: diversity and I guess the demographic of their new cohorts

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Speaker 1: following the Supreme Court decision. So in the case of MIT,

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Speaker 1: that's Massachusetts Institute of Technology, the number of first year

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Speaker 1: black students fell from fifteen percent in twenty twenty three

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Speaker 1: before the decision to five percent in twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: That drop is about two thirds of students. So that's

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Speaker 1: the sort of data that we're seeing in the education space.

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Speaker 1: And now the impacts of the affirmative action ban are

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Speaker 1: sort of flowing on into the corporate space.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I will just clarify that the Supreme Court

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Speaker 3: decision doesn't relate to corporates. It only relates to educational institutions.

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Speaker 3: But it is more the kind of discourse that it

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Speaker 3: is opening up.

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Speaker 2: I guess.

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Speaker 3: And clearly we are seeing this move now of corporates

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Speaker 3: stepping back from their diversity and inclusion commitments. I mentioned

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Speaker 3: before that McDonald's has done this. What was the thinking

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Speaker 3: or I guess, what was the rationale for their decision?

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Speaker 3: What do they tell us about why they have done this?

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Speaker 1: So with McDonald's, they've cited this shifting legal landscape.

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Speaker 2: Which are the same as matter Yeah, which.

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Speaker 1: As you've mentioned, there's no requirement from the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: for corporations to pull back their de programs. But it's

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Speaker 1: this sort of shift, this discourse that's happening that's now

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Speaker 1: leading in this case McDonald's to pull back their DEI initiatives.

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Speaker 1: And so something interesting that I found with McDonald's was

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Speaker 1: they had previously set this goal where they wanted thirty

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Speaker 1: five percent of their US leadership roles to be held

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Speaker 1: by people from underrepresented backgrounds. They've now said that that

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Speaker 1: rate currently sits at around thirty percent. So five percent

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Speaker 1: short of their goal. But McDonald's mentioned in their statement

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Speaker 1: that they were no longer working towards specific targets for

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Speaker 1: diverse representation and leadership positions, So this is one of

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Speaker 1: their ways of pulling back on DEI, and similar to

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Speaker 1: Matter announcing their changes with suppliers, McDonald's also said that

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Speaker 1: they would be quote retiring their previous commitments to DEI

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Speaker 1: with their greater supply chain.

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Speaker 3: You played a clip earlier of Donald Trump talking about

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Speaker 3: getting rid of affirmative action, and I do think that

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Speaker 3: it needs to be said that the timing of all

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Speaker 3: of these announcements is of course in the lead up

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Speaker 3: to Donald Trump's inauguration, and the tenor of kind of

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Speaker 3: national conversation obviously changes with whoever is in the presidency.

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Speaker 3: What have we heard from Trump? Is this going to be,

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Speaker 3: I guess one of his big policy platforms, or what

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Speaker 3: role does the president have in something like this?

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Speaker 1: For sure, I think we are starting to definitely see

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Speaker 1: some sort of shift, particularly as we near Trump entering office.

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Speaker 1: And little grab actually from what the President elect said

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Speaker 1: after Matter announced it was walking back on its DEI

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Speaker 1: efforts just over the weekend.

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Speaker 3: You look at what happened with Facebook today and yesterday

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Speaker 3: what they announced that was a big concession from them.

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Speaker 1: So this incentive to shift company practices away from targeted

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Speaker 1: diversity initiatives isn't just coming from Trump, and I think

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Speaker 1: we need to consider some of the people that Trump

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Speaker 1: is surrounded by and the people who he has obvious

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Speaker 1: close relationships with. Elon Musk is one of them who

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Speaker 1: has also stated that he's in favor of eliminating DEI programs.

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Speaker 2: If we lower the standards for doctors so that they

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Speaker 2: if the test for a doctor is lowered, then the

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Speaker 2: probability of them making mistake and killing someone is obviously

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Speaker 2: going to be higher.

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Speaker 3: So, just to recap, I guess all the info that

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Speaker 3: we've spoken about, there do seem to be a couple

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Speaker 3: of different trigger points in this story. So there's a

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court ban on affirmative action that relates just to

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Speaker 3: educational institutions, and that's been in place since June twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty three. But then we have had the President elect

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump talk about walking away from DEI programs, and

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Speaker 3: he's had support from influential figures like Elon Musk, And

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Speaker 3: now there's this growing trend that we're seeing of more

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Speaker 3: and more companies, and not small companies, really really big

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Speaker 3: influential ones making similar decisions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it is important to also note that this

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Speaker 1: isn't happening for every major company. So over the weekend,

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Speaker 1: Apple had released this official document ahead of their annual

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Speaker 1: general meeting, essentially outlining proposals made by its shareholders. Now,

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Speaker 1: one of the shareholders of Apple is a conservative think

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Speaker 1: tank called the National Center for Public Policy Research, and

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Speaker 1: it's admitted a proposal to Apple for this general meeting

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Speaker 1: asking it to cease its deifs, essentially pull back on

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Speaker 1: its diversity programs, citing the Supreme Court decision, which is

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Speaker 1: actually in the education sector, as we've mentioned, warning that

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Speaker 1: Apple could be sued. And now Apple's board said it

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Speaker 1: recommended the other shareholders not to vote for this proposal

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Speaker 1: because the company wasn't at risk of violating the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court decision and getting sued. So Apple didn't really respond

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Speaker 1: to the actual idea of walking back on their deprograms,

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Speaker 1: but they mainly said that the legal risk that this

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Speaker 1: group was suggesting didn't actually exist. So in terms of

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Speaker 1: whether or not Apple could be one of the next

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Speaker 1: companies to make this move is very much up in the.

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Speaker 3: Air, but I mean they haven't come out and supported

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Speaker 3: it explicitly by any means, so it does seem like

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Speaker 3: they're perhaps not going in the same direction as a

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Speaker 3: Metal or as a McDonald's. Yeah, Nandini, before we go,

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Speaker 3: I do just want to ask though, you know, we

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Speaker 3: talk a lot about the US. Oftentimes we can talk

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Speaker 3: about importing americanisms. It's this idea that what happens over

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Speaker 3: there inevitably ends up over here.

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Speaker 2: Do we see any Australian.

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Speaker 3: Companies doing this sort of thing walking away from diversity

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Speaker 3: quotas or you know, affirmative action is less of a

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Speaker 3: turn that's used here.

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Speaker 2: But are we seeing anything like that here? So far?

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Speaker 1: We haven't seen any major companies announce changes in their

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Speaker 1: commitments to diversity and inclusion in the workplace, and we

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Speaker 1: haven't seen any changes in the university space ere As.

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Speaker 1: For McDonald's Australia, a spokesperson told Sky News Australia that

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Speaker 1: its doors are open to everyone. So in terms of McDonald's,

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Speaker 1: which is a global company, Yeah, looks like it might

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Speaker 1: not be impacting it here in Australia just yet, or

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Speaker 1: something to keep an eye On for sure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean with Donald Trump coming to the presidency

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Speaker 3: next week now, it'll be really interesting to see if

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Speaker 3: other companies move away. Last time we spoke about Meata,

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Speaker 3: we spoke about this idea of companies readying themselves for

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Speaker 3: a Trump presidency, and it certainly feels.

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Speaker 2: Like some of these decisions are in line with that.

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Speaker 3: So we'll all be watching to see what happens in

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Speaker 3: this space and whether there are any further changes.

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Speaker 2: But thank you for explaining that, and.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us for another episode of The

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Speaker 3: Daily os. If you learned something from today's episode, why

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Speaker 3: not send it to a friend.

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Speaker 2: That is the way that our little lady a company

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Speaker 2: can grow.

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Speaker 3: We'll be back again this afternoon with some headlines, but

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Speaker 3: until then, have a great day.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Caalcuton woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torres

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Speaker 1: Rate island and nations.

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Speaker 3: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,

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Speaker 3: both past and present,