1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,280 Speaker 1: It is just after nine twenty and we know that 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: the vaccine mandate has well and truly kicked in. Joining 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: us on the line is Dave Malone from Master Builders, 4 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: the chief executive. Good morning to you, Dave. 5 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. 6 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,639 Speaker 1: How are you not too bad? Dave? How did that 7 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: mandate roll out on the weekend go? 8 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 3: It's been an interesting response, to be truthful, We've been 9 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 3: doing a straw pole this morning trying to work out 10 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 3: what's happened. You know, for some companies they're fully vaxed 11 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 3: and it's business as usual. Some companies have lost a 12 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 3: few people. 13 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 2: There's a few that have self assessed. 14 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 3: And said that they actually don't need to be vaccinated. 15 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 3: And then we've seen a few signs on doors now 16 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 3: where people are saying to vulnerable people, please contact us 17 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,599 Speaker 3: before you look to come inside our business. So it's 18 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 3: a real cross section of different responses to the mandate. 19 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, So what's ago with the ones that have 20 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: said that they they've done an assessment and they don't 21 00:00:55,360 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: feel that they need to be vaccinated, Well, basically. 22 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 3: Gone through they look at the type of work that 23 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 3: they do, sort of people they come in contact with, 24 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 3: and they've decided that based on that, they don't believe 25 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 3: they need to be vaccinated, and so that'll be an 26 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 3: interesting little issue to watch, But that's what expects what 27 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 3: is expected under the health direction. You know, people are 28 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 3: to self assess and make a decision. 29 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: And what about them with those others that you'd mentioned there, 30 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: You know that they've put a sign on the door 31 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: basically saying, if you're vulnerable, you're going to have to 32 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: get in contact with us on this number. 33 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 3: It's interesting, isn't it. I suppose what you see in 34 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 3: this situation is that people are responding in the way the. 35 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 2: Best suits their business. 36 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:45,279 Speaker 3: We certainly didn't provide that notice to people, but again, 37 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 3: business owners and managers are within their rights to work 38 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 3: out how they do business. 39 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 2: And clearly some companies have decided that's the way they'll 40 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 2: do it. 41 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: Well, it'll be interesting to see how it sort of goes. 42 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: Have you got any idea at this point in time 43 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: the percentage of workers in the industry which have decided 44 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: not to get vaccinated or remain unvaccinated. 45 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 2: That's the crucial question for us, Katie. 46 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 3: As we've talked about before, workforce is an issue, and 47 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 3: as we head towards the wet We want to get 48 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 3: as much work done as we can, So we'll go 49 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 3: out to our members this afternoon to try and get 50 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 3: a sense of what sort of impact we've seen across 51 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 3: the industry. If I was to take if I was 52 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 3: forced to take a stab today, I think it's somewhere 53 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 3: between seven and ten percent of our workforce that hasn't 54 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 3: been vaccinated, and that will put some pressure on us 55 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 3: we move forward. 56 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, what kind of pressure is it going to put 57 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: on some of our local businesses because as you just 58 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: pointed out, and as you and I have discussed before, 59 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: we know that there has been some issues with the 60 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: workforce and you know, not being able to fill some 61 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: jobs as it is. 62 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 3: The key is the pinch points that we've talked about before, 63 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 3: those critical people across our industry that you know, if 64 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 3: they're not working, then projects slow down or they stop. 65 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 3: So that's part of what we've got to find out 66 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 3: over the next week or so. More people got vaccinated 67 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 3: than we expected, so you know, the issue might not 68 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 3: be as big as we first feared. But you know, 69 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 3: as I talked to people this morning, and as our 70 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 3: guys talk to people as well, it's clear that there's 71 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 3: been a real cross section of responses from people and 72 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 3: that will mean a slightly smaller workforce going forward. 73 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would imagine that there was you know that 74 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: there was kind of quite a bit of feedback over 75 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: the course of the weekend. Were you surprised then that 76 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: it sounds as a high volume all quite a large 77 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: number obviously did go out and get vaccinated. 78 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: At one level, I pleased. 79 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 3: Another level, you know, we were taking a lot of 80 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 3: phone calls, not just from members, but from individuals in 81 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 3: our industry. You know, young men and women for example, 82 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 3: they were working their way up to last Friday, and 83 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 3: you know that they were trying to work out whether 84 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 3: they would get vaccinated or not. I suspect that what 85 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 3: we've seen is as the deadlines come, people have said, 86 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 3: you know, I need to get my pay packers basically, 87 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 3: so people have gone and got vacked. 88 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: Hey, Dave, there was a lot of conjecture on the 89 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: weekend about whether public servants or refuse to get the 90 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: vaccine would be stood down on full pay. As I 91 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: understand that there is a forty eight hour grace period. 92 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: What impact or what was the reaction from industry on this? 93 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 3: You can guess what the reaction was. Yeah, they've had 94 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 3: businesses right across the territory have had the pedal really hard. 95 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 3: And I always have this picture in my head of 96 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 3: you know, those really small businesses where mum and dad 97 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 3: run the business of a nighttime after they put kids 98 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 3: to bed, and they've had to get across all the 99 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 3: complexity of employing people and deal with their workforce. When 100 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 3: the government makes the rules and then says it's struggling 101 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 3: to deliver on time, you can imagine how industry responded 102 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 3: to that. They you know, they chuckled a bit, but 103 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 3: they are also pretty disappointed. 104 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 2: It's good to see that the numbers are. 105 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 3: Much less than were first forecast, and we're not talking 106 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 3: about anywhere near the number of people we first were. 107 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 3: But you know, business will look at it and say, 108 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 3: we've suffered a fair amount of cost here, and there's 109 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 3: other people being paid not. 110 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 2: To go to work. 111 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 3: Thankfully, it looks like it's not going to last for 112 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 3: long and it's not that many people. 113 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, from what I can gather, you know, the Chief 114 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: Minister's Office has said today that the reality is that 115 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: they've got that forty eight hour grace period and then 116 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: within the public service if they're not able to be 117 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: redeployed or moved into another role, that they are going 118 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 1: to be stood down without any kind of pay. Obviously 119 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: fully fully stood down. But I mean, does this whole 120 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: situation where there's a grace period for some and not 121 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: for others really demonstrate that sometimes the public service and 122 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: what happens for the public service is very much out 123 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: of touch in comparison to the private sector. 124 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 3: I think up front, what it shows is that employing 125 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 3: people in Australia is a really complex task. We've talked 126 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 3: previously as well about the fact that no matter whether 127 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 3: you're the public service or the smallest business in Catherine 128 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 3: or tenor Creeker Our Springs for example, to comply with 129 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 3: the Work Health Act, the Fair Work Act, any other 130 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 3: contracts that you have in place, and you've got a 131 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 3: whole bunch of notice periods and grace periods attached to 132 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 3: employment as well. I think, you know, what we're seeing 133 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 3: with the government is exactly what you see in the 134 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 3: private sector too, which is the challenge of managing all 135 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 3: of that. 136 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 2: The one thing is, though the private. 137 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 3: Sector took the view that Friday was a deadline, they 138 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 3: had to be ready by then, you had the government's 139 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 3: taken a little bit longer. Dave. 140 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: There were some questions sort of coming through to us 141 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: here on Friday, some people wondering whether some of our 142 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: larger contractors may have received exemptions on some projects which 143 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: were deemed to be sort of critical projecting projects. Is 144 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: that the case, so. 145 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 3: Katie, as far as I know, the answer is no, 146 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 3: And there's certainly been no indication from anybody that I've 147 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 3: spoken to, but there's any exemptions whatsoever. What I will 148 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 3: say that we always joke in our industry is that 149 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 3: if there's no rumor by lunchtime and someone's job to 150 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 3: make it up. You know, people rang me with those 151 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 3: same stories. I find the companies involved they categorically deny 152 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 3: any of that. The authorities denied as well. I think 153 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 3: it's just part of the revermal that goes around our 154 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 3: industry in particular. 155 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Dave Malone from Master Builders, we always appreciate 156 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: your time. Thank you very much for having a chat 157 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: with us this morning and giving us a bit of 158 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: a better gauge really on how things are looking for 159 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: our construction and building industry today as that mandate really 160 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: takes effect. 161 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: Have a great day, Katie, you too.