1 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: Mama always always, sir, be careful love those. 2 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 2: Umboo let We'll use your head. 3 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: They will tear you lack a purple talk. Oh no, no, no, yeah, yeah. 4 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, oh no no no. 5 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Amanda and I'm Remy. 6 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 2: Welcome to It's layer. 7 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 1: We're in a long distance friendship that started over twenty 8 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: years ago when we were in high school. 9 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 3: We'll be talking about all things life, love, family, anything 10 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 3: and everything else under the sun. 11 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: Delve deeper with us because in life, you know my layers. 12 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 2: Oh no, no. 13 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 14 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. 15 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: Rmby seeing you again this sight I heard of. We 16 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: literally read that for every single year, COVID year pretty much. 17 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 3: Definitely. I can't believe seeing you now at this special 18 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 3: time of the year. 19 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 2: I know it's. 20 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 1: Been so great to be here in Hamburg, in Germany. 21 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: And I think we're both marveling at how our Christmases 22 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: have been very different too, if we had gone home. 23 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: We've got family back home, and yeah, I think it's 24 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: a little different. 25 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 2: Found that sounds a bit lacking. Yeah, And I. 26 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 3: Know when we did have Christmas, our gender roles episode 27 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 3: dropped and that was such a timely thing because man, 28 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 3: being home is. 29 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 2: So different females versus females. 30 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: So yeah, absolutely, and I think also going home, you know, 31 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: you can never go empty handed. So beyond just the 32 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: ticket to get there, there's so much more that's expected 33 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: of you. You hear people talking about Christmas box, you 34 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: know what does that mean? So we just thought we 35 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: would delve today on a topic that I think a 36 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 1: lot of us can relate to. And it's a very 37 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: act to put it lightly, I'm always with that, yeah, 38 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: as always. 39 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, so what are you talking about today? Black tax? 40 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, tex blackly black. 41 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 2: How do you define black tax? 42 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: No, I define well, if you think about tax, it's 43 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: something that you are obligated to do, even though you. 44 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 2: Don't enjoy doing it. 45 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: So when you get that paycheck and then they cut out, 46 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: like however, like twenty percent, however much depending where you 47 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: come from, it's you you would love to keep that 48 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: twenty percent, but you have to give it. 49 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 2: You're obligated to do so. 50 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: So for me, black tax is that obligation because of 51 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: being a part of the black community, African community, to 52 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: support others. If you are able to take care of 53 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:06,799 Speaker 1: yourself relatively well, you should do so for others. That's 54 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: how I would define it. 55 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 3: No, definitely, and I do think it's somehow steeped in 56 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 3: a moon too, because it's like, well, if you're doing well, 57 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 3: everyone also has to do well, so we have to 58 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 3: try and look all each other up. Yes, and I 59 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 3: think it's just one of those things that's definitely expected 60 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 3: was start getting your paycheck to. 61 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 2: Always give back. The only thing that's annoying. 62 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 3: About like what the word tax is because it sometimes 63 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 3: feels forced, like it goes beyond gifting. Yes, so yeah, 64 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 3: let's get into it. 65 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: I think yeah, similar to raw our discussion where we 66 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: talked about it would be different if it was just 67 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: a gift. I think black tax brings a whole nuanced 68 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: and other level to it. But where would you say 69 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: it originated from this idea of black tax? Oh, I 70 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: think like everything else you've talked about before, colonialism and slavery. 71 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 3: But I do it originates from I think it originates 72 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 3: from you know, people who came before us working hard 73 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 3: to get us to another level, so it's almost. 74 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 2: Like okay, you still have to give back. 75 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 3: And also the social systems we have, not being able 76 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 3: to take care of our own old people and our 77 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 3: communities so then we end up having to. And also 78 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 3: in a family, if you're the one gets employed into 79 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 3: a rich company or whatever and your siblings aren't, it's like, okay, 80 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 3: how do you balance that out? 81 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, So I think it comes from disparity. 82 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: Absolutely, like not having generational wealth. Typically in Black communities, 83 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: that's a foreign concept and the idea. So because there's 84 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: no like passing on, it often happens that children have 85 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: to take care of their parents financially, not just like 86 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: for health reasons, but like financially and beyond just parents, 87 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: community as well. And I think it's something that's felt 88 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: in most Black communities world over. Actually, any community which 89 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: was a minority that was oppressed and has had long 90 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: a shorter span of success in their communities, that would 91 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: I think typically be found there. 92 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 3: Definitely, Why though, why do you think I mean, you've 93 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 3: really kind of answered it, but why do you think 94 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 3: it's still functions? 95 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 2: Because there's still inequality. 96 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: Inequality still exist, and as long as inequalities still exist, 97 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: they're going to be haves and have nots. 98 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 2: And as long as they have and have nots. 99 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: Because we have the notion of Ubuntu, We've spoken about 100 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: this many times on this podcast, you help each other 101 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: and as a man that said, you have to uplift 102 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: each other. Also, it's a bit selfish to eat alone, 103 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: even though I think culturally when you go Kumusha to 104 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 1: the rural areas and there's a meal, you typically share 105 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: yeah with and you eat together. So it's the same concept. 106 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: It's like, it's not just for me, Yeah, it's for everyone. 107 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: It's a very thoughtful way to look at the world, 108 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: I think, because it's like makes you always think about others. 109 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: I've had situations where you know, I you know, give 110 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: or donate or have donated, and like people are like, oh, 111 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 1: you're so kind for donating, and these were like white 112 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: counterparts like oh, I'm just so used to like it's 113 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: so normal for me, And I think it's normalizing the 114 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: black community to give and share. 115 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, definitely, I think it does help us suge 116 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 3: the guilt a little bit, like because yeah, you do 117 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 3: feel guilty. I mean even you really just started this 118 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 3: episode saying our Christmases are so different because we know 119 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 3: our fellow sisters are out there like labor. Yeah, it's like, okay, 120 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 3: if I can't be there physically to assist at least financially, Yes, 121 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 3: you've got you know, a placeholder. I'm there in spirit 122 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 3: essentially that you're like putting your mark, you know, even 123 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 3: if it's a funeral and you're handing over some money, 124 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 3: like I'm not there to I. 125 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 2: Can't fly over, but there you go. 126 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 3: So it's like, yeah, I think it functions because we're 127 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 3: not there. We live apart from our families and comment. 128 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 3: So you're marking, You're still saying I'm part of the family. 129 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: Yes, I'm still part of And what would you say 130 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: that's a pro con? And what are some of the 131 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: other persons. I sometimes when I feel a bit better, 132 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: I got more comes, I. 133 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 3: Think the pros again, like what we just talked about, 134 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 3: you know, you know, staying part of the community, part 135 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 3: of the family. I think the cons for me come 136 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 3: from expectations. They come from you know, when it's a gift, right, 137 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 3: no one knows it's coming, no one counts on it, 138 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 3: no one knows the amount. But I feel like when 139 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 3: it's black tax, usually it ends up being a set 140 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 3: amount you send every month, and if you don't for 141 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 3: any reason, it's like a problem. Then depend on it. 142 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 3: So I hate that dependency it gives I also think 143 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 3: if people give begrudgingly, is that really giving? So that's 144 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,119 Speaker 3: a con for me, like not giving with your whole heart. 145 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 3: I also don't like the power money has over people. 146 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 3: So someone feels like I give a lot to this family, 147 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 3: I have a lot of absolutely, so that's a huge 148 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 3: con for me. Like, yeah, so there's a lot of 149 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 3: it's all tied to the financial nitty gritty pace and power. 150 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: And also I think another con is when people connect 151 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: with you, are they connecting you with you because they 152 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: actually like you or actually want to get to know you, 153 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: or are actually concerned about you, or are they concerned 154 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: about what it means to be in your good books 155 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: and how that works favorably for them. 156 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 2: A movie that. 157 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: Came out during the Christmas period was Glass Onion. If 158 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: anyone hasn't seen it, knives out. It's on Netflix, and 159 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: that's on a much larger scale, but I could so 160 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: relate watching it. Where people stay within your frame of 161 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: reference because of what you can offer and afford them, 162 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: And I think it's a very difficult place to be 163 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: because it's like do people genuinely like me, or do 164 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: they like me for what I bring to the table. 165 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: Can be a con this, and we've spoken about transactional relationships. 166 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: It's a very twisted thing where it's like I support 167 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: you because of what you give me, and like you 168 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: I have your support because of what I give you, and. 169 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 2: This back and forth. Is it healthy? 170 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: No, you know, things like that, So that's that's definitely 171 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: a con. I think a pro is definitely as mentioned, 172 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: like helping the community at large, you know, and I've 173 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: seen it with our own relatives being able to go 174 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 1: to school as a result and move their lives forward, 175 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 1: which is what you want. 176 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 2: We all want to move forward. Yeah. 177 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: I think the tricky part is when it becomes this 178 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: thing of expecting handouts you've spoken Amanda and I about 179 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: like NGO's back in Zim, where it's like you hand 180 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 1: out handout handouts, and then it creates a dependency as 181 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: opposed to helping. 182 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 2: You elevate your yeah, yeah, yeah. 183 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 3: And I think also within the actual nuclear family there 184 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 3: can be some rounds, yes, because it could be like, oh, 185 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 3: my uncle's in UK and he sends more money than 186 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 3: the uncle or even the uncle who's still in Zim 187 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 3: and is the older one of the families, so typically 188 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 3: he should be the one with the say yes, but 189 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 3: there's a younger one. 190 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 2: Who's got the money. 191 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 3: And then I feel like family dynamics also shift because 192 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 3: of accent. 193 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 2: A lot of times. 194 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 3: And I mean it brings me to my next question 195 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 3: to you within the zimbabwe in context, because obviously a 196 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 3: lot of people who listen to a podcast and not 197 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 3: some of them are not Zimbabwean. How do you think 198 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 3: specifically when it comes to Zimbabwe and black tax has evolved? 199 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 2: Is has it evolved? 200 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: I think become more and more expected with times getting 201 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: tougher and it's getting harder to sustain yourself. So I 202 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 1: think it's become incredibly layered, and there's this expectation of 203 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 1: like you will get me out of my sort of situation, 204 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: and I think, oh. 205 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 2: Man, it's a touch subject. 206 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: I think it gets hard when the thank you's become 207 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: almost few and far between, even though the sacrifice is 208 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: that you expected to make gets higher and higher, and 209 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 1: it's this warped things like how did I do you 210 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: ever have moments where you're like, how did I sign 211 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: up for this? 212 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 4: When did Yeah? So just like adulting, it's just like 213 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 4: whoa Just it takes you by surprise and this expectation 214 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 4: and The thing is with the expectations, they often unsid and. 215 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: Then you just find you realize it in a moment 216 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: of like why am I being expected to do something 217 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: so demanding? And it's like, oh, in their mind, it's 218 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: like dir you're supposed to do the thing. 219 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 2: Like the times have changed. 220 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: It's not the same, it's not as easier. I don't know, 221 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: I could go on, but. 222 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 3: I think for me context, it's even like broader like 223 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 3: because the economy got so bad, we became even more 224 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 3: heavily reliant on this. I feel like, I mean, I 225 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 3: know some countries that South Africa still have it who 226 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 3: do probably do financially better, but I just feel like 227 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 3: I wish we've got to use our own skills and 228 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 3: not heavily relying on black tex. Because sometimes you're sending 229 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 3: something to someone and the like I want ten dollars 230 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 3: and you're like, I but cently your ten bucks. 231 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 2: It's like, but you know that ten bucks will like 232 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 2: change there. Yeah. 233 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 3: So it's so funny because I think it's just it's 234 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 3: even worsened by our economics situation, and I just think 235 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:36,839 Speaker 3: these are the things we didn't think about when it 236 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 3: was actually happening, when zoom was actually turning. We didn't 237 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 3: think of the long term effects. 238 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 2: Yes, and I. 239 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 3: Feel like now we're Zimbabweans especially, we're heavily reliant. 240 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 241 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 3: You know, if Mukoru and World Remit and all them 242 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 3: shut down, our country would literally shut. 243 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 2: I was talking to someone the other day. 244 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: I think I was saying Zimbabwe would be a failed 245 00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: state without the support of people sending money. Yeah, because 246 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: I think that is what sustains and I think that's 247 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: why as much as there's a lot of friction and tension, 248 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: borders will always remain open. They will allow people in 249 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,719 Speaker 1: and out because they know that is the cash. That's 250 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: a cash cow. It is it's what brings in a 251 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: lot of the cash into the country. 252 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 2: So it's like warped. So would you say it's gotten 253 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 2: better or worse? Zbware definitely worse. Zimbabwe definitely worse. 254 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,719 Speaker 3: I feel like maybe it's worse for me because as 255 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 3: you get older, the responsibilabilities, you know, it's like, oh, 256 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 3: you know how it is, you know raising a child 257 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 3: in this country, I would expect me to do it. 258 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 3: So then you feel sorry, right because it's a mother. 259 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 3: You're also like, oh, I imagine I was there you know, 260 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 3: as before. When you're a child, you're kind of your 261 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 3: parents kind of cover you, and I think as you 262 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 3: get older, those covers become less and less. 263 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: And I think we ought to say, you know, not 264 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,719 Speaker 1: just to seem like we're complaining. But I've also been 265 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: on the other end. I've been in when you really 266 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: are trying and you want to make your way out, 267 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: but the opportunities, the jobs, the resources, the investment for 268 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: you to elevate yourself or move forward in your life 269 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: are so limited, and it's so frustrating. So I've been 270 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: on the other end where you're just like, will it 271 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: ever end? Will I ever get out of this? And 272 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: if people are just like, well, figure it out yourself, 273 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: it feels very heartless and cold and how and so. 274 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: And I feel very deeply, especially for youth, and especially 275 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: for young people who grew up with all this, go 276 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: to school or feeling the hope of like if I 277 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: study hard, if I work hard, I will have a 278 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: good life, and then feeling like you actually worse off. 279 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: And I think a lot of us feel worse off 280 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: than our parents were at this stage in our lives. 281 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: So it's so it really is a pro in when 282 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: you can help others. I was helped. It was through 283 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: the help of others that I even was able to 284 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: get out of there, and I hope to return the favor. 285 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 2: So in cycles like that, I. 286 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: Think it can be really beautiful and I understand, but 287 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: I think it gets complicated when it's not appreciated. 288 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 2: Yes, or not used for what it's used for. 289 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 3: Like I mean, I've got plenty of friends who are like, oh, 290 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 3: I sent money for them to go to some exam 291 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 3: or sit. 292 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 2: On their old levels. 293 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I didn't make it, And it's like, okay, 294 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 3: so what did you use the money for? And if 295 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 3: they had already something else there rather would have paid 296 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 3: for and then just be honest. 297 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 2: But I think they know if they're honest, then they 298 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 2: won't get it. 299 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 3: So it's like the communication becomes so vital, yes, because 300 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 3: I think resentment grows when someone thinks I'm sending your 301 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 3: money but you're not using it the right way, or 302 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 3: we're not where I thought we would be, and you relater, 303 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 3: you're still asking me for money, but where these projects 304 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 3: you're saying you're doing. 305 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: Can I ask you this question, though, do you feel 306 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: that if someone if you are giving to help someone. 307 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: You're entitled to know the progress and to have a 308 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: say on how someone moves and progresses once they receive 309 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: your financial assistance. 310 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 3: I think for black tax and gifting, that's the difference, 311 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 3: aht you. I think for gifting, like Christmas, you know, 312 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 3: you send your gifts, You're like, oh, you know, Christmas 313 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 3: box by yourselves whatever or don't whatever, you don't black tax. 314 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 3: If but something consistently someone approaches you and says, I 315 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 3: want to go to school, I'm going. 316 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 2: To nast and this is the field. 317 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 3: Yes, And then they don't pass at the end of it, 318 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 3: or they don't grow at the end of it. 319 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 2: You're like, you do. That's and that's where the word 320 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 2: tax kind of because. 321 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 3: Even if you think about tax in the Western world, 322 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 3: they have to tell you where the. 323 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 2: Tax is being new. That's true on the roads. 324 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 3: In school, for social services, blah blah blah. 325 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: So I feel like that's the difference. That's the then 326 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: who should have more of a say. So For example, 327 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: if your uncle is supporting your education, who, yes, let's 328 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: go there. And you have your parents who birth you, 329 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: close you to some degree, but now your uncle's holding 330 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: down the fee and payments of that who should you 331 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: be answering to? 332 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 3: You know, I think that's where the rivalry starts to 333 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 3: because I think you'd hope that uncle and parents are 334 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 3: the same. 335 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 2: But what if they're different. 336 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: If they want you to be your parents are like 337 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: I want you to be. I don't know a businessman, 338 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: I don't know how to exist. I feel like, because 339 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 1: we have the bedest today the world. 340 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 3: It ends up being the person with the money because 341 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 3: your parents, if they withdraw your their support, it doesn't 342 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 3: change your situation. 343 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 2: It doesn't change. 344 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 3: But if your uncle was the money says oh you 345 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 3: want to go to check, Well, no, you're right. So 346 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 3: I feel like the person who's gonna change the trajectory 347 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 3: is the one. 348 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: So then it completely shifts relationships. 349 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, completely. That's just why I'm saying before sibling 350 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 2: life is a big thing. 351 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 3: Like people would be like, oh, they earn more money, 352 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 3: so they you know, even some funerals, people. 353 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 2: Will be like, oh, waiting for uncle, you like, so 354 00:17:59,040 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 2: this person is. 355 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 3: Just going to waiting the motuary until until someone the 356 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 3: person that comes by the casse by the it's it's late. 357 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: It's lad like just thinking of that family dynamically, who 358 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: says what and how and why it'd be deep? 359 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 2: Do you think then becomes a burden investment? 360 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 3: Saying, especially using the Uncle thing you brought up, which 361 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 3: was a good. 362 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: Example, like text, is it a burden investment? You know 363 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: what with investments, you know there's risk and reward, right 364 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: high risk, and then they can be high risk, high reward, 365 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 1: low risk, low reward. Sometimes it's high risk, low rewards 366 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 1: or no reward. But I think you have to almost 367 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: look at it as an investment hope for the best. 368 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: Also long term versus short term if we if you 369 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: look at it in those in that light, then if 370 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: someone doesn't pass as as an exam or season of exam, 371 00:18:57,760 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: short term it sucks, but long term are they gonna 372 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 1: go a different field? 373 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 2: Do you get what I mean? 374 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: And I think it's an investment if something comes out 375 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: of it in the long run, whether typically long run, Yeah, 376 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: and then it's a burden when nothing comes out. 377 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 3: Yet typically like when someone you know stands on their 378 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 3: own two feet, then it's a good investment. Yes, then 379 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 3: they can now possibly help someone else in the family, 380 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 3: because imagine this is not a. 381 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 2: Family of two people and lots of people drown. 382 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: Yes, but but then it can be a huge brand 383 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: when you feel like you're just flashing down the twiler. 384 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 3: Do you know, remember you spoke about when you're in 385 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 3: Zim and needing that chance, and that was you feel 386 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 3: for people. I think I can also relate in terms 387 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 3: of the other way where your Zimbabweans were out of 388 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 3: Zim and you feel the pressure too. I know a 389 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 3: lot of people have taken creative cards, loans. 390 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 2: Killed themselves. Someone. 391 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 3: Suicide is real in the diasport space as well, because 392 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 3: people build up this image of I'm doing. 393 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 2: So well here, you know, and then your reality. 394 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 3: They want to send my home and help everyone, and 395 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 3: that's what's expected. And so I feel like there's also 396 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 3: again communications vital because sometimes we can't keep up and 397 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 3: sometimes we can't send you that money. 398 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 2: And it's not doesn't mean you're failing. Yeah, that's the thing. 399 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,360 Speaker 3: And when, for example, expected as soon as you move, 400 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 3: you start sending money. But it's like, really, it takes 401 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 3: a lot to rebuild your life from. 402 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 1: Yourself for sure, And I know I had that experience 403 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: when I moved and then you know, now you're away 404 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: from where things happen and events were happening back home 405 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: and weddings, and I was. 406 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 2: Like, I'm sorry, I can't make it. 407 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, and people look at you like huh, but 408 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: you're and it's like, no, you have to have a 409 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: so you're so, you're so so right about that. And 410 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: I think you touch on something really crucial is our 411 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 1: lack of communication. I think people look at people who 412 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: are in the desk and we looked at a TikTok 413 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: the other day and we spoke a little bit about it, 414 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: where you know you're forgotten about Yeah, it's like, oh, 415 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: she's there, she's fine, and you are in want of nothing, yeah, 416 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: And that there's this weird perception that if you are 417 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 1: in a seemingly better space or world or place, you 418 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: need nothing, no matter. They don't count for loneliness, they 419 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: don't count for you know, support network, being an outsider, 420 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: you know, having there's so many things you have to navigate. 421 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: And I think this perception, you know, when people learn 422 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: from how we are from London, when they learn, expecting 423 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: them to show you the bling bling, the latest this, 424 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: by that, do this, And I think sometimes we do 425 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: a disservice by trying to maintain that image of an 426 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: about you know, from all these places, and I think 427 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: it also stems from our culture. Communication has never been 428 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: something we're good at. Is not what we it's not something, 429 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: so then we sometimes. 430 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 2: Do a disservice to ourselves. 431 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: You know that. 432 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it is really lay it. 433 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 1: Like we can look at it as a burden, but 434 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: also like how are we clear? Are we clear about 435 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: our situation? And money is tricky to talk about. It 436 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: almost becomes case by case. 437 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 3: Like you win some you lose something, you know, literally 438 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 3: like an investment, ye like okay, you know I made 439 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 3: money from that or no. 440 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 2: That didn't work. 441 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 3: But it's sad that it becomes so monetary and that's 442 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 3: the only way you can help. That's the thing that 443 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 3: also gives me that it's like okay, can I give 444 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 3: you my time instead? 445 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:27,959 Speaker 2: But it's like no, no, no, we want, we want. And 446 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 2: also some people want the money with. 447 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 3: No consequence to send it to me and say but 448 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 3: like what are you doing with it? 449 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 2: What are you think that? 450 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 1: Also they don't want to answer that, they won't ask 451 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: the messages. Now you're checking in somehow how did the 452 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 1: project go? Yeah? 453 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, so why does it affect people of color the most? 454 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 2: I think we already. 455 00:22:55,280 --> 00:23:01,479 Speaker 3: Disparity, the generational wealths. We don't have that yet, the 456 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 3: pressure of the buntu, that other side of it, that 457 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 3: we have to help each other. You can't just go 458 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 3: to England and forget about the rest of us, you know. 459 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 3: So I think it just yeah, it also affects uppose 460 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 3: we think beyond our nuclear family. Yes, so yeah, a 461 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 3: funeral typically everyone goes, everyone goes to help, everyone, pictures 462 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 3: in everyone. So now when it becomes financially becomes financial 463 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 3: right when you leave the country, because again, as I 464 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 3: said before, you're not there to physically be there, Whereas 465 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 3: I think Western is very individual Like I remember, you know, 466 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 3: I've been to funerals for friends in the Western culture 467 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 3: and it's like they plan everything, they do everything, but 468 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 3: then then everyone else just rocks up on the day 469 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 3: and leaves. You know, you get a fewople who help 470 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 3: clean up maybe mid day and yeah, it's not even 471 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 3: guaranteed rest fast as you can count on it. 472 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 2: So I think because of. 473 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 3: The way we live our lives, the collective theory it becomes, 474 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 3: it just feeds into it. 475 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: And I think it also ties to other elements You've 476 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: often spoken about on this Yere podcast, like patriarchy like religion, 477 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: because religion is very much used as and you can't 478 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: think about yourself alone. You need to think of everyone else, 479 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,360 Speaker 1: even if it's at the expense of you. So there's 480 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: all that that starts infiltrating and beyond just the disparity 481 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: for centuries that we've experienced, it's like, yeah, it'd be deep. 482 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 2: Do you think then it does definitely hinder generational wealth? 483 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: What is generational wealth in the Black community? 484 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 2: No, truly, yeah, no, truly. 485 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: I mean sure, yes, there's some families that are wealth 486 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: here and like you know, it's kind of moving on. 487 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 1: But as a collective on a broader scale, what is it? 488 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 2: What is it? 489 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: Can we even say we've really achieved it? I think 490 00:24:54,760 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: not not the way it's been done by none Blacks, because. 491 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,439 Speaker 2: There's an idea of ownership. What do we own? You know? 492 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 3: So then we can have generational even inheritance, you know, farms, Yeah, 493 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 3: but like yeah, can we then personal inheritance that actually 494 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 3: does then make money for the next and the invaluable. 495 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: It's invaluable. The farms are invaluable, they will last. 496 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 2: Forever, but not ever. It could be a farmer, fable farmer. 497 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 2: Everyone can farm commander get it right? 498 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 3: So no, no, no, yeah, sorry, but yeah, I don't 499 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 3: know because I feel like even when you like we spoke, 500 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 3: we spoke about how people would typically do it. I 501 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 3: think even when you're in that aspera and you keep 502 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 3: dipping into your savings, dipping into a safe how how 503 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,239 Speaker 3: how are you then these things that we I mean 504 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 3: apart from if you send a stipend or a certain 505 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 3: amount of your parents, but for all these other auxiliary 506 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,239 Speaker 3: things like ning needs that person is that you're going 507 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,360 Speaker 3: to be dipping into you or can commander as sellaneus 508 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 3: on a budget on something? 509 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: Do you think white people have under the monthly budget 510 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: for uncertainties meaning family might hollow and be like I 511 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: need to say no, they have like budget for like 512 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: uncertainties like oh maybe the carnies and your tire. 513 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 3: Yeah we have your carnes and you try to add yes, 514 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 3: so oh Lord Jesus. 515 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: And then on top of that, for us, you must 516 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: have a wedding, all right, but before you have the wedding, 517 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: you have to do the roer, so you have to 518 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: have budget for the roura. He's paying that want and 519 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: I also want the engagement. There you are the party. 520 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: Now the party, you can't have ten people. It's a 521 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 1: problem cause his issues. Ask me, I've been there so 522 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 1: and then so I need to pay for all that. 523 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: And then when all said and I need to be 524 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: still supporting on top of me having the bad monthy 525 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: budget for the tire puncture. 526 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh oh, we can go through a whole pandemic. 527 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 2: But I still want my stypic. 528 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 3: Yes, like, oh, doesn't matter what happened with work, you're 529 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 3: working from home now produced ours. 530 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 2: But for me it's still like what do you expect 531 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 2: me to do? 532 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 3: And because as Rumby said before, we get the amenities, 533 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 3: people think we're already a step above. 534 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 2: Right, my life will probably always. 535 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 3: Be on, like my heat will always be on, So 536 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 3: I must I am better. But the stuff you can't equate, 537 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 3: like familiar support. If I can't pay rent, I can't 538 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 3: come and live with Rumby, you know what I mean? 539 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 2: Like like hu. So it's whereas when you're in Zim, 540 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 2: that's so normal. 541 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 3: People come and live with you for true forever and 542 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 3: never say a word yep, and you can ask the. 543 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 2: Actually like what they contributing into the household? 544 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 3: Nothing because it is so normalized. So I feel like 545 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 3: there's so many things, even daycare, childcare. I'm thinking that 546 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 3: as a parent, you know you can get people take 547 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 3: care of your kids for free. That's a notion that's 548 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 3: unheard of over here unless it's your actual nuclear family. 549 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 3: If you don't have family, then if you don't move 550 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 3: with your family, then you're paying for every single rap. 551 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 2: And I think that's something else too. 552 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: I may be able to send this money, but do 553 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: you know how hard I am working for each penny? Exactly, 554 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: eat that part and every penny, And you want to 555 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 1: laugh at me for working that hard because people, let's 556 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 1: not act like. 557 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 3: Sometimes people be like, oh, you do these jobs or 558 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,719 Speaker 3: you're doing my shifts, and they're laughing as if then 559 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 3: they've never experienced it, And you're like, how can you 560 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 3: laugh at the concept you've never done Exactly? Yes, I 561 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 3: am wiping people's asses in these countries. Do you say 562 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 3: that's let's put it out there, what do you should do? 563 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 2: Does it make people dependent on it? Oh? For sure either. 564 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 2: I think that is what makes it a burden, not an. 565 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 3: Investment, because someone who's been invested in is thinking, I'm 566 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 3: going to get to this point and then you're gonna 567 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 3: let go of the training. WI, but I feel like 568 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 3: the burden person is just like, this is my life. 569 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: But okay, someone can say, but you know, the situation 570 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: back home, it's only getting worse. 571 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 2: What am I supposed to do? 572 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 3: But then the place that okay, yeah, this wind becomes 573 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 3: case by case. If someone's saying I'm doing school, please 574 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 3: find me. Then they fail, You're like, of course studying 575 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 3: my guys disappointed is for you to then pass and 576 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 3: then move on. 577 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, but okay, what. 578 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: If they do pass m but there's no no jobs. 579 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's why that's true. That does didn't happen. 580 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: Then they ask you to invest in their chicken project. 581 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: If and then maybe the chicken project doesn't take off, 582 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: they're like girls like yeah, and then they try to 583 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: do like reselling and then but you see, this is 584 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: also why it also there is a burden on generational 585 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: wealth because any person tells you about wealth building will 586 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: tell your consistency is key. 587 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 2: So you put two. 588 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 3: Thousand dollars away a month for whatever X amount of 589 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 3: you won't get to that X amount. Yeah, because one 590 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 3: month you're putting two hundred. One month you're putting a 591 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 3: hundred one month you're putting like this just and because 592 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 3: of the problems being different for each month. 593 00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 2: Right, So I feel like. 594 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: It's just so do Maybe then the question is are 595 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: we flawed in thinking generational wealth should be a thing 596 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: at this stage in the black communities? Like maybe our 597 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: only focus should be on the upliftment from a level 598 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: of poverty as Black people. Maybe we've been sold like 599 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: buying too much in the into the Western dream of 600 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: like I want to have generational wealth for my children 601 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: and my children's children, But realistically, should we be actually 602 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: saying I want to uplift my people and that is 603 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: what we should be working towards as a generation, and 604 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: maintain that for our children's generation so they continue to 605 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: help and then eventually maybe most will get to a level. 606 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 2: Are we playing ourselves? Yeah? 607 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 3: Maybe maybe we're shooting too fast. And you know what, 608 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 3: now I need to think deeper about generational wealth. A 609 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 3: lot of it came off. 610 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 2: The backs of us people of calas. 611 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 3: The money reparation even America, which is a classic example. 612 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 2: Black tex exists there too. A lot of them, Yeah. 613 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 3: Have cotton, had cotton fields or plantations, and so we 614 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 3: were working on their jenet. 615 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 2: We were doing it. 616 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 3: For them, and then now when we're all free as slaves, 617 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 3: we'll be doing it for us. 618 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: And maybe it was implanted in our heads by the 619 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: man so that we feel like we should be titled 620 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: to general original wealth. And then it creates tension and 621 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: homes and then disunity happens, and then we cannot fight 622 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: the man, yeah, because we've brought him into this person 623 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: like it's mine. I'm paying devil's advocate, of course, But 624 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: you know, you really start thinking about these things and 625 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: you think of how it kind of the tension builds 626 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: within yourself. 627 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 2: And self torture. 628 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: You know, it takes away because when you get that call, 629 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: that message or that and it's just like my way. 630 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 2: Like my guy, I might even playing let me but even. 631 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 3: Like things like you think about it even on a 632 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 3: deeper level where it's like, are we even taught how 633 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 3: to manage our money? You know, because again we've talked 634 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 3: about this even in our other episodes of colonialism, we 635 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 3: would thrust from this other way of life into this 636 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 3: other way of life, and maybe we really because sometimes 637 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 3: you're like, can we even people? Everyone wants to be 638 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 3: a farmer, as we just spoke about, laughed, about but 639 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 3: that just because that's the only way I've seen people 640 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 3: make money who look like us. 641 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: And also it was a white man who really profiteed 642 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: or fun to be fair, before the fun, Yeah, it 643 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: just goes goes back to slave. But I really really 644 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: am thinking about this and the tension of growing up. 645 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: And we've spoken about the dichotomy of having cultural and 646 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: then sort of Western worlds having to find a duality 647 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: in our lives and existence, the existence and the tension 648 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: it has created this back and push and pull, back 649 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: and forth. And yeah, I just thought it's a good 650 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 1: question to ask, like, are we buying a dream that 651 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: was never really I was, yeah, oh. 652 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 3: Should it be steps like this generational world? If it 653 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 3: took people from slavery to now to reap the benefits, 654 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 3: are we only going to reap the benefits one hundred 655 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 3: or two hundred. 656 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 2: Years from now. 657 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 3: So it's not about us, it's bonds, you know. But 658 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 3: do you think you should continue with all of. 659 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 2: This black text? I don't think. 660 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: I don't think we can even come on here and 661 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: say no, because sadly there's there's no way, Like if 662 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: you think of the humanity, and maybe we've also brought 663 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: into ubunto too much. 664 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,719 Speaker 2: On the on the opposite scale, we've brought into that. 665 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: But I personally believe in supporting where I can. Yeah, 666 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: I think the hard part, this is the thing, the 667 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: hard part in our Black communities, especially the African the 668 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: Zimbabwean community, is boundaries, and that is something that's incredibly difficult, 669 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: not only for you to set up, but for others 670 00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: to accept. 671 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 2: No, it's a complete sentence. 672 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: Because I think we come from a world where what boundary? 673 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,239 Speaker 1: What do you mean close your door? I need some 674 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: me time, No such thing. So I think that really 675 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: is the saving grace of saying there's only so much 676 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 1: I can do, and it requires having And I think 677 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:22,320 Speaker 1: we've both had some hard conversations trying to set the boundary, 678 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: and you just need to be willing to live in 679 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 1: your truth and accept whatever the consequence is that comes 680 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: with it. I do believe in helping others. I have 681 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: been helped even beyond and before I was coming here, 682 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: I've been helped in many, many other ways, and I 683 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: think it's a beautiful thing. That's where you love and 684 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:48,240 Speaker 1: appreciate humanity. But we should also consider that help doesn't 685 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: always have to be financial. 686 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 2: Yes, that part. 687 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 1: You know. Help can be picking up a phone to 688 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: a cousin and asking for advice, like I'm thinking of 689 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:57,759 Speaker 1: doing this, what do you think about this? 690 00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 2: Is this a good move? 691 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 1: Or offering that kind of advice. Help can be connecting 692 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 1: people together who you know, you're in this place, so 693 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 1: and so is in this place. Maybe that's how you 694 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 1: can help each other. Help can be like, oh, you 695 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: seem really skilled at this in this subject of this craft. 696 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: You know, you know there's actually a professional out there. 697 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 1: It's opening up the mind to say you don't just 698 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: have to be doctor, lawyer, engineer, do you know what 699 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: I mean? So maybe it's also broadening, even though it's 700 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: hard and you have to be willing to be the 701 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 1: voice and to be shut down. 702 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 3: Possibly yeah, And I mean you said it yourself. A 703 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 3: thing outside the box in terms of help. Even checking 704 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 3: up on our parents, like when you're in dire sporta 705 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 3: a cousin saying to you, I passed by the parents 706 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 3: and I saw if they were you know, it's like 707 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 3: so heartwarming, Like, you know, because of the things you 708 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 3: worry about when you're not around your family. So I 709 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 3: feel like we need to think beyond just money and 710 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 3: just that's the only way you can because really that's 711 00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,319 Speaker 3: where it all kind of starts to become a bit 712 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,359 Speaker 3: should it continue. It has to write because we live 713 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 3: in countries that don't give us good social services. So example, 714 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 3: a lot of us send money home for our parents 715 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 3: for health cover, funeral cover because again they're retired and 716 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 3: they didn't have a retirement package, or they did, but 717 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,479 Speaker 3: it's the Zimbabwean dollars, which then became uslaceless. So because 718 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 3: of the way the world worked, obviously, and until our 719 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 3: countries also do better, governments do better, this will always 720 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 3: continue because it has to otherwise. 721 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 2: People won't survive literally literally. 722 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 3: But at the same time, some of it feels very 723 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 3: frivolous and very like, oh, you know, someone else will 724 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 3: just do it for me. And I think that's where 725 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 3: it starts to become problematic, where it's like have you 726 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 3: actually applied yourself? 727 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 2: I think it's so tired. 728 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: I feel like a broken record because it's always having 729 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 1: it's always a thing of accepting this is the country 730 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: we have. In this situation, it almost feels like helpless 731 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 1: sometimes money really tired, bro Like it's so disheartening, and 732 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: I don't think people who've grown in functioning environments can 733 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: ever truly understand the burden it creates because people look 734 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: at you like fix yourself, or like why can't you 735 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 1: do it for yourself, or people look at you like 736 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,240 Speaker 1: why do you have these sort of big dreams. 737 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 2: Or I aspiration, just stop sending them money. 738 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's just this, it's it's exhausting, exhausting, I 739 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: mean to defend yourself to your people to be like 740 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:24,879 Speaker 1: I can't Marie Angle would. 741 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 2: I have to work for it. 742 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: And it's exhausting to live in a functioning environment and explain, 743 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: oh I do send home money home, or it's not 744 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 1: that easy or it's complicated, we're tired enough. 745 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,439 Speaker 3: Even in Western culture they do look after the old people, 746 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,399 Speaker 3: they put them in nursing homes or so they do. 747 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,279 Speaker 3: But then it's not ours. Feels more complete, feels more 748 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 3: from scratch, feels more like you know, all on you 749 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 3: and our countries and our people who run our governments 750 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 3: don't have to answer to anything. 751 00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 2: Nope, which really they ought to. 752 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,319 Speaker 3: So it's almost like, yeah, we're doing it for them, 753 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 3: right resemble then say well, if you continue to do it, 754 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 3: will always and yeah, it is true. But how do 755 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 3: you then make us stand like, oh, we're not going 756 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 3: to send money and then let our people like that's never. 757 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:13,879 Speaker 2: Because who's gonna suffer. 758 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: It's always going to be the ones who are not 759 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: so well connected and don't have vulnerable the vulnerable and 760 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 1: where our families are large and we have a lot 761 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: of people across the board, so you never gonna work, 762 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: Only we suffer. 763 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:36,279 Speaker 2: How do you I feel so beated? 764 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so so lad But yeah, I hope you 765 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,839 Speaker 1: guys got something of value from it. If you have 766 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: any tips and suggestings all a black because and. 767 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 3: Your thoughts and feelings around this or how What I 768 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 3: would like to know is how people have dealt with A. 769 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 3: If you're in ZIM and you're the one who's asking, 770 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,319 Speaker 3: how you deal with that? Like do you approach it 771 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,399 Speaker 3: with humility? Do you approach it with like doesn't matter? 772 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 2: And B if you're the one who's sending, how do 773 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 2: you not have resentment? 774 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 3: Or do you approach it an open heart? And I 775 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 3: just want to know the array of thoughts of people 776 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 3: around Yeah, and. 777 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: Should you is it okay to ask like and to 778 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: sit down and be like, what are your expectations? 779 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 2: This is what I can do? You know? Or how 780 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:15,399 Speaker 2: do you manage? 781 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,839 Speaker 1: Because then when you ask, especially our elders, they look 782 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,000 Speaker 1: at you like you're made. You want to serving on 783 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,399 Speaker 1: the street type of situation esscentially once you start having 784 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: your own kids, because now you're also thinking of investing 785 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: into them. 786 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 2: You don't have money to always just be like and 787 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:32,839 Speaker 2: what if you say, now, are you a bad child? 788 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: Yeah? Is your responsibility as a child to support. 789 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 2: You know, because we we. 790 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,799 Speaker 1: Do because that's what's been passed on. We've seen our 791 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 1: parents do it. But like if you were to be like, sorry, 792 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:46,400 Speaker 1: I can't. 793 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 3: You didn't not a good child? Or do you sponsor 794 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 3: some people or not others? And why or how do 795 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:53,240 Speaker 3: you choose? 796 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:54,800 Speaker 2: Please? 797 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 3: Because if you're from a family of like nine or ten, 798 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,880 Speaker 3: you know these are the gentleman questions. 799 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:01,360 Speaker 2: Guys. 800 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: It's not even funny. It's like I'm really pondering, like 801 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 1: what do you do? 802 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 2: What do you do? 803 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: And then if the family just owns you because you 804 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 1: can't support them financially or just use guilt by it's 805 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 1: like shouting at you about how you're not a good chance. 806 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:17,879 Speaker 2: I think we're a little scott. 807 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,080 Speaker 3: Oh god, Anyway, before we go into bed the depression 808 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:26,400 Speaker 3: about this. Our ZIM shout out for this episode is 809 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 3: Maja Mazima. Her Instagram handle is at maju that's m zreio. 810 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:38,239 Speaker 2: Na and the school and the school. Yes, so we 811 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:39,319 Speaker 2: thought to spotlight her. 812 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:46,359 Speaker 1: She is the strategic partner manager at YouTube and we 813 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:47,279 Speaker 1: came across her. 814 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 2: Don't know too much. 815 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: About her, but have seen the work she's done with 816 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: black creators for YouTube. Recently, the class of twenty twenty 817 00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: two graduated and they created a whole graduate celebration and 818 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 1: ceremony for that celebrating black creators. And we just love 819 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 1: to see her being a catalyst and an important part 820 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 1: of creating these opportunities for black people on YouTube. 821 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 2: And on such a large scale. So I think it 822 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 2: ties in quite nice. 823 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 1: Actually it was Black Tax where it's like creating opportunities 824 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 1: or spotlighting or highlighting black people in different light, and 825 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,600 Speaker 1: I think that's what we need. Our people in the 826 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 1: relevant rooms opening door saying y'all sleeping on black creators, 827 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,399 Speaker 1: let me tell you they're actually the ones who can 828 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,879 Speaker 1: do something or shifting the narrative. So we salute you, Mariana. 829 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear more about what you're doing and 830 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: continue to shine in such a beautiful way. 831 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, what an episode will be seeing you again I 832 00:41:52,520 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 3: met probably sick of us, but yeah, I mean obviously 833 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 3: on this episode. Is it's going to be twenty twenty three, 834 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,880 Speaker 3: probably be a few months into Yeah, yeah, but this 835 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 3: has been so such a lovely year to see room 836 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:11,920 Speaker 3: be so often. 837 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, to just spend time to just relax with into 838 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:15,960 Speaker 2: this presence. 839 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:20,400 Speaker 3: Yes to me, her baby is so cute. 840 00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:26,480 Speaker 2: Yeah I'm biased, but I know there's no bie like legitimately. 841 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 3: I just want to take a moment to thank you Rumby. 842 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,760 Speaker 3: This year would not have been the same without your support. 843 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,280 Speaker 3: You're allowed this podcast. Yeah, you make it so easy. 844 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent, Like right back at you. It's 845 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:45,320 Speaker 1: been a year of high highs and low lows, milestones, 846 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,120 Speaker 1: and it's been a monumental year and a lot of 847 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,319 Speaker 1: ways for the both of us. So grateful to have 848 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 1: you buy my side literally and figuratively speaking, and just 849 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,319 Speaker 1: looking forward to what the year brings, but heart full 850 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:03,240 Speaker 1: of gratitude, so so for never take this for granted, 851 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,880 Speaker 1: and thank you always for listen. Like we say it 852 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,319 Speaker 1: time and time again, but we keep I think we 853 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 1: always get somebody, you know. The downloads keep increasing and 854 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 1: the feedback back. 855 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 2: We love this. 856 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,880 Speaker 1: We're doing this because we just want to create a 857 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,040 Speaker 1: safe space where you feel heard or understood, or where 858 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,240 Speaker 1: you can question some of these ideologies or just be like, oh. 859 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:29,920 Speaker 2: That was interesting. 860 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,839 Speaker 1: So thank you so much from the bottom of our 861 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:34,200 Speaker 1: hearts for listening as. 862 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,400 Speaker 2: And we'll see you on the next episode. Bye guy, 863 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:44,320 Speaker 2: take care. Bye. Will tell you lack a purpose