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Speaker 1: What are the signs that your child is struggling with

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Speaker 1: mental ill health? Mental illness is on the rise among

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Speaker 1: our children and young people in Australia. There is a

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Speaker 1: lot of work to do. Hello and welcome to the

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Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast, Real Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's

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Speaker 1: most downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin and Kylie Coulson. Kylie.

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Speaker 1: In the last few days, I've had a fascinating conversation

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Speaker 1: with clinical psychologist and academic doctor Jamie Northam from the

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Speaker 1: University of Sydney. We were having a chat about mental

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Speaker 1: health challenges, especially among our young people, and she shared

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Speaker 1: a metaphor with me that I just I had to

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Speaker 1: bring into today's pod. So we're not supposed to be

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Speaker 1: talking about this until Saturday. We're going to play the

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Speaker 1: whole interview about kids and mental ill health on Saturday,

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Speaker 1: but check this out. This is what she had to

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Speaker 1: say about kids and their various struggles.

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Speaker 2: So the dandelion awkward metaphor is that you've got different

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Speaker 2: types of kids, and you can think of kids different

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Speaker 2: types of flowers. The dandelion flower or a child is

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Speaker 2: the sort of child who will grow anywhere they're really resilient,

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Speaker 2: they're robust, they need really minimal conditions to grow into

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Speaker 2: a healthy, functioning human being who's pretty happy. Then we

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Speaker 2: get these children sometimes who refer to as orchids, and

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Speaker 2: they're very sensitive to environment, and they need very particular

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Speaker 2: parenting input and very particular environments to grow. And when

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Speaker 2: they grow, my goodness, they are spectacular. And I like

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Speaker 2: to think about the parenting choices we make about discipline

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Speaker 2: and learning skills and all those things as really individual

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Speaker 2: to families and really individual the kids. What will work

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Speaker 2: well for one kid might not necessarily work well for

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Speaker 2: the other kid, even if both things are evidence based.

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Speaker 2: So what we need to do when considering which treatment

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Speaker 2: to go with or which skills to implement. If you're

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Speaker 2: thinking about advice that you receive on Instagram or two

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Speaker 2: top it's one, are there studies behind this that show

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Speaker 2: that it works and that it doesn't do harm? Two?

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Speaker 2: What I think is really important, are there clear guidelines

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Speaker 2: and how to actually do it? Because a lot of

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Speaker 2: the time instrumums will tell a nice thing and you go,

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Speaker 2: that sounds cool, but I don't actually know how to

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Speaker 2: do that then, so you want to see the actual

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Speaker 2: steps involved, so you don't screw it up to put

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Speaker 2: it really bluntly. And then lastly you're going to go

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Speaker 2: is this right for me? And is this the right

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Speaker 2: fit for my child?

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Speaker 3: I know this is a real big tangent, but this

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Speaker 3: actually reminds me of a poem that I may have

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Speaker 3: sent to you.

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Speaker 1: This is a big tangent. Did not see that coming.

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Speaker 3: Here.

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Speaker 1: We are talking about parenting and you're about to talk

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Speaker 1: about our dating life.

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Speaker 3: Roses and lilies.

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Speaker 1: Just you've heard flowers and you've thought my husband was

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Speaker 1: getting it so wrong and I still married him. Let's

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Speaker 1: go back to pairing in a sec. Here's the short version.

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Speaker 1: You sent me a poem about how they were lilies

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Speaker 1: in the garden and litl is on the wall and

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah, there's lilies everywhere, and why he is

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Speaker 1: supposed it with all these lilies everywhere? I should so

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Speaker 1: Desira rose right. That was the poem. That was the poem,

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Speaker 1: And for some reason I misread the poem and I

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Speaker 1: started to call you my lily. We were dating. It

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Speaker 1: was like a pet name. And you're like, oh my goodness,

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Speaker 1: I'm just a lily. And is this guy this guy's

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Speaker 1: not serious about me. We digress it. Fortunately, Fortunately I

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Speaker 1: figured it out, made you, my rose, married you. Where

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Speaker 1: we've been and now.

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Speaker 3: We have a lily and an alero.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, we've got lily and a rose in

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Speaker 1: our family. But let's go back to doctor Jamie Northan's metaphor.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, the mind wandering.

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Speaker 1: There are some kids who are dandy lions and some

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Speaker 1: kids who are orkards. In other words, there's this this

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Speaker 1: temperament and personality variable that impacts how what we do

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Speaker 1: with one child can work so well and it doesn't

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Speaker 1: work so well with another child.

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Speaker 3: And the thing that stood out to me as I

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Speaker 3: was listening outside of the lilies and the roses right,

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Speaker 3: was the idea that parenting isn't a one size fits all.

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Speaker 3: We can nail it with one child utilizing a different

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Speaker 3: technique or even just a mindset when it comes to

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Speaker 3: how we interact with them and think we've got this

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Speaker 3: downpat and it's going to be amazing, And then the

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Speaker 3: next child comes along and it doesn't matter how many

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Speaker 3: times we go down that right, it just does not compute,

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Speaker 3: does not work, and in more cases than not, we

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Speaker 3: end up down a completely different road is not where

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Speaker 3: we want to be.

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Speaker 1: So the other thing that I really want to pick

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Speaker 1: up on from what she was saying is that when

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Speaker 1: it comes to like Instamum's TikTok, there's never been more

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Speaker 1: parenting advice available in the world, never, which makes my

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Speaker 1: job really challenging in some ways because every time I

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Speaker 1: turn around, somebody says, well, I saw this on TikTok,

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Speaker 1: or this instatum's doing this, or I read this blog,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, there are some really good ideas out there,

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Speaker 1: But as she said, is there evidence behind them?

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Speaker 3: Is there a really good.

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Speaker 1: Theory that drives them, or is this just something that

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Speaker 1: somebody put a pretty picture of some or a pretty

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Speaker 1: video of some kids playing with their parents and said, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is so nice. Like there's got to be evidence

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Speaker 1: behind what we're doing.

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Speaker 3: And then are there clear steps for me that I

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Speaker 3: can follow? And I think that that's a really key

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Speaker 3: component to being able to move forward, because.

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Speaker 1: That's why I developed Explore Explain in power right, because

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Speaker 1: I can sit down and talk about needs supportive parenting

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Speaker 1: all day, but if you don't understand what that looks

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Speaker 1: like in a conversation in a discipline setting, it's not

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Speaker 1: going to be helpful.

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Speaker 3: Well, especially if you're coming from the traditional consequence concept.

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Speaker 3: The idea that we'd explore with our children how they're

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Speaker 3: feeling and then work with them to provide a solution

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Speaker 3: goes against the grain. So it's so far beyond where

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Speaker 3: we've ever been before. Without those clear concise steps for

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Speaker 3: us to follow, we're going to stuff it up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The other thing that I will say, and I

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Speaker 1: didn't get to say this to Jamie, but as I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about it now, Danny Lyon's orchards. Sure, like we

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Speaker 1: know that there's temperament and personality differences with kids, but

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Speaker 1: when you've got a really solid piece of evidence that

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Speaker 1: underpins that's underpinned by really really great theory, it will

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Speaker 1: apply most of the time to most people in most situations.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that's something that we can always

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Speaker 1: rely on. That's why there's value in speaking to or

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Speaker 1: listening to the right people. After the break, since our

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Speaker 1: conversation was mostly about mental health, we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about the challenges, the concerns you want to be looking

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Speaker 1: out for to know whether or not your child does

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Speaker 1: or does not need to go see somebody because of

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Speaker 1: some mental illness. Doctor Jamie Northam is from the University

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Speaker 1: of Sydney. She's a clinical psychologist and she works academically

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Speaker 1: doing research at UCID as well. We had a chat

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Speaker 1: that I just really enjoyed so much. We come from

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Speaker 1: quite different perspectives. She comes from a clinical psychology perspective.

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Speaker 1: I come from a positive psychology, self determine nation theory

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Speaker 1: well being perspective and it was a fascinating discussion. One

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Speaker 1: of the best parts of the interview, something that just

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Speaker 1: stood out so much to me was I asked her

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Speaker 1: what the signs are that things might not be going well?

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Speaker 1: Like if we take it right back to base, really

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Speaker 1: basic principles, how do you know that your child is

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Speaker 1: not thriving? And this is what she said, check this out.

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Speaker 2: So in psychology we always speak about the three d's

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Speaker 2: when we're thinking about needing to intervene with kids, and

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Speaker 2: those are distress, dysfunction, and debians. So distress, if some

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Speaker 2: behavior is worrying you or worrying your child, that's a

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Speaker 2: perfect time to get help, because that's one thing that's

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Speaker 2: really important. Dysfunction, that's the things that I like to

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Speaker 2: think about, is impacting learning or impacting a really happy life.

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Speaker 2: So if you can't make friends, if you can't form

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Speaker 2: those relationships, that's having a bit of dysfunction. So that's

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Speaker 2: probably worth looking at. And then devians is the last one,

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Speaker 2: which sounds a little bit scary when you say, like

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Speaker 2: like that, but what devians refers to is really, is

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Speaker 2: my child within the realms of what's considered normal at

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Speaker 2: this age, and are they sort of meeting those milestones

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Speaker 2: that would be expected of them. And if they're not, again,

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Speaker 2: that's probably another tick that you know that it's time

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Speaker 2: to seek out a little bit of extra support.

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Speaker 3: I'm really glad you clarified deviance. I was going down

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Speaker 3: a completely different track.

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Speaker 1: So I don't use the word dvans. I use the

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Speaker 1: word deviation because you can deviate from the mainstream without

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Speaker 1: becoming a dB. And some people deviate in positive ways

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Speaker 1: and some people in less positive ways. So yeah, distress, dysfunction,

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Speaker 1: and deviation or deviance are the things to look out for.

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Speaker 1: It if you're worried that your child is not doing well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I look at this in terms of I

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Speaker 3: guess school refusal, for instance, we've got a really highly

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Speaker 3: distressed child.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, who.

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Speaker 3: Then at school is dysfunctional in that they're not able

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Speaker 3: to learn because they're so highly strung in that space.

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Speaker 1: Well, the reality is that it is functional at home

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Speaker 1: as well, right, like the big tantrums and that sort

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Speaker 1: of thing. Yep.

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Speaker 3: And the relationships are challenged at every step because they're

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Speaker 3: not able to make new friends, keep friends, or even

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Speaker 3: have positive interactions with teachers and parents. And then as

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Speaker 3: a result, often it impacts their milestone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, they deviate from what the developmentally appropriate milestones

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Speaker 1: would be.

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Speaker 3: So it feels like this is a really easy, achievable

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Speaker 3: checklist for parents to look at when they're assessing whether

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Speaker 3: or not this is something that we probably need to

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Speaker 3: seek extra help with.

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Speaker 1: I' found it really helpful. The whole conversation with doctor

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Speaker 1: Jamie Northam was really insightful, really useful, and I think

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Speaker 1: any parent who's mindful about either their parenting practice or

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Speaker 1: they're concerns about the child's mental health, you really want

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Speaker 1: to hear the whole thing. So we're going to play

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Speaker 1: the entire interview on Saturday Saturday morning. You've got it

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Speaker 1: there for your weekend listening. I reckon you're going to

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Speaker 1: love it. It's really simple to listen to. She communicates

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Speaker 1: so clearly and talks about really important things to help

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Speaker 1: your family. So please take a listen to the full

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Speaker 1: interview on Saturday with doctor Jamie Northam from the University

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Speaker 1: of Sydney, clinical psychologist and lecturer at that Sandstone University. Hey,

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Speaker 1: the Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Roland from

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Speaker 1: Bridge Media. We would love it if you'd leave us

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Speaker 1: a five star rating or review. You get a nice,

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Speaker 1: warm fuzzy because you've done something nice for us, and

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Speaker 1: you get to help other people as well. They find

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Speaker 1: the podcast because you've left that rating and review. If

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Speaker 1: you could take thirty seconds and do that, Can I

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Speaker 1: invite you to do that? That would be It would

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Speaker 1: just make such a difference. More information and more resources

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Speaker 1: about making your family happier are available at happy families

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Speaker 1: dot com. Do a