1 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the technics 2 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 1: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imbach. I'm an 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: organizational psychologist the founder of innovation consultancy Inventium, and I'm 5 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work day. Before 6 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: I get into today's episode, I have an exciting program 7 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: launching on October twenty one, which you can be part 8 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: of from wherever in the world you're listening to this podcast. 9 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: From the program is called our Workday Reinvention Program, which 10 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: is something I've been working on at Inventium for the 11 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: last two years. So it's a six week program designed 12 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: to reinvent the way that you work. The program contains 13 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of science backed ways to have a 14 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: more productive, fulfilling, and happier work life, and we've gotten 15 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: some amazing results from the program so far. Not only 16 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: have we increased people's productivity by around twenty two percent, 17 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: which is nearly one day per week's worth of extra time, 18 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: but we've also increased people's engagement, energy levels, job satisfaction, 19 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: and even general well being at work by up to 20 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: twenty eight percent and that's just within six weeks. So 21 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: if you're a listener of How I Work, go to 22 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: bitley bit dot ly Forward slash Workday program. That's bitly 23 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: Forward slash work Day program, and listeners of How I 24 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: Work can get a seventy five dollars discount on the 25 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: cost of the program. Just end to the code how 26 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: I Work. That's one word how I Work at check 27 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: out and get that discount and I'll link to all 28 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: that in the show notes too. 29 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 2: So the program starts on October. 30 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: Twenty one, and if you're a listener of the show, 31 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: I think that you'll absolutely love this program and get 32 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: a stack of value from it. So today's episode is 33 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: best off episode because I am currently on holidays from 34 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: the podcast for a couple of weeks. So what I've 35 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: done is I've gone back over the interviews I've conducted 36 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: this year and I've picked a handful that were my favorites. 37 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: So today's guest is doctor Katrina Wallace, who is the 38 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: founder and CEO of high profile fintech and AX listed 39 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: company Flamingo. Flamingo provides a cognitive virtual assistant AI called 40 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: Rosie that helps financial services companies across the world improve 41 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: online sales conversion rates and the better servicing of customers. 42 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: So based between New York and Sydney, Doctor Katrina Wallace 43 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: is one of the world's most cited experts on the 44 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 1: future of customer experience, artificial intelligence and bot strategy, and 45 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: kat was last year named one of the Australian Financial 46 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: Reviews Women of Influence and topped the Business and Entrepreneur category. 47 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: Now I first met Kat when we're both speaking at 48 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: a conference in Portugal, of all places, nearly a decade ago. 49 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: Since then, Cat has become one of my most influential 50 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: mentors and also a bloody good friend. Now, when you 51 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: imagine a CEO of an ASX listed company, Kat is 52 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: not what you expect. She is incredibly smart, but has 53 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: very contrarian views and is quite hilarious in how she 54 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: delivers them. Now we cover so much ground in this interview, 55 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: from how to be a gun salesperson because Kat is 56 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: such a gun salesperson, her travel tips that she's learned 57 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: from having to fly from city to New York fifty 58 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,519 Speaker 1: times in the last three years, and her very unconventional 59 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: approach to parenting. Because on top of all her achievements, 60 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: she also happens to be the mum of five kids. 61 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: So on that note, over to Kat to hear about 62 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: how she works. Kat, Welcome to the show. 63 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 2: Thank you member. 64 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: Now I want to start by talking about your role 65 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: as CEO of AX listed company Flamingo AI and like, 66 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: how many female CEOs are there of listed companies in Australia. 67 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 2: Well, not a huge number. 68 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 3: And in fact, when we listed, which was November twenty sixteen, 69 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 3: I had a female chair at the time, Kathy Reid, 70 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 3: and we were the second only female led business ever 71 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 3: to have listed on the ASX, and that would be 72 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 3: I think there's about two and a half thousand companies 73 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 3: who are on the AX and obviously there's been many 74 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 3: to come before, so it's still a very unusual place 75 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 3: for women chairs to degree women board members and certainly 76 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 3: women are CEOs, and a much more unusual situation to 77 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 3: have multiple levels of women leading companies that are ASX listed. 78 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: Wow, And what's that like, making the transition from just 79 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: like your run of the millstock standard CEO to one 80 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: of a listed company, Like, what's that like? 81 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, entirely different. 82 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 3: So I was the CEO of other companies that I 83 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 3: had founded, so co founded ACA Research and founded Fifth Quadrants, 84 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 3: so very used to being a CEO of a privately 85 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 3: held professional services company, so moving into a listed environment 86 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 3: is entirely different. 87 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 2: In fact, the skill sets are entirely different. 88 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 3: So the ASEX obviously requires huge amount of compliance, regulation, 89 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 3: governance and reporting and this would be probably ten percent 90 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 3: of our budget and time would be spent on making 91 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 3: sure that we're highly compliant with what the aas SEX requires. 92 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 3: Another chunk of time is spent with addressing and engaging 93 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 3: the capital markets, so the investors themselves, so these investors 94 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 3: could be institutions or in fact retail investors, so Australian 95 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 3: mums and dads. And we have about three and a 96 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 3: half thousand investors on our register, all of. 97 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 2: Whom are pretty keen to give me a bit of. 98 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: Advice some feedback on a. 99 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 2: On ast daily basis. 100 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 1: Wow, oh my gosh, okay, and what what is that like, 101 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: because I imagine it must be so much pressure, Like 102 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: in what you do there. 103 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 3: Is there's huge pressure. There's so there's pressure to comply 104 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 3: and to disclosed. So we anything that's material that happens 105 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 3: in the business, so it could be a contract, could 106 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 3: be a loss of a staff member needs to be 107 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 3: disclosed publicly to the market, so it's like open kimono, 108 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 3: and for a very early stage company, you know, there's 109 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 3: a lot of flashing that's involved in doing that. So 110 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 3: it's actually, I don't believe a natural place for a 111 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 3: high tech, emerging market early stage company. However, it is 112 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 3: a very efficient mechanism for raising capital, so that's the upside. 113 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 3: The other real challenge for young companies is it's quarterly reporting, 114 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 3: and as you know, in innovation, as all your listeners know, 115 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 3: innovation may not pay dividends for one, two, three, for 116 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 3: five years as you're building and inventing and getting something 117 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 3: and testing it to market. So it is it's a 118 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 3: very challenging environment for young innovative companies. I would say 119 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 3: it's probably not a natural and natural environment, but very 120 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 3: good for raising capital. And I think it also puts 121 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 3: a tremendous revenue discipline on young companies as well. 122 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 2: So they're the upsides of the listing. 123 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: What's what's been the single hardest thing in this role 124 00:06:58,320 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: for you? 125 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 3: So I think it is getting a balance between me 126 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 3: as a CEO and board member to engage and spend 127 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 3: time in the capital markets doing capital raising, working with 128 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 3: the analysts, working with the institutions, engaging all the investors 129 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 3: at the same time as I really should be focused 130 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 3: on growing developing the business. As you know, I'm like 131 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 3: a gun salesperson, so I just love to sell. So 132 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 3: it takes away time from what we would naturally be 133 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 3: doing if we were in private hands and we actually 134 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 3: didn't have to do all of that, all of that work. 135 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: That sounds so challenging. And I do want to talk 136 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: about sales because you're a gun salesperson, and I feel 137 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: like that's quite rare for someone from an academic background 138 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: as you are, and before that you were a policewoman, 139 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: and even females. I feel like females, you know that 140 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: there's not many who would see themselves as gun sales women. 141 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: So like, where when did you start even thinking that 142 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: you were a gun sales per? Yeah? 143 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 3: Great, Christia sad So I never would have described myself 144 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 3: as that previously, nor thought that I would ever have 145 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 3: a career in high tech listed or sales. In fact, 146 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 3: as you know, I did want to be a farmer, 147 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 3: was my initial ambition and still unrealized ambition. But what 148 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 3: I found is with the particular product that we have, 149 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:28,119 Speaker 3: so artificial intelligence, machine learning, virtual assistants, knowledge engines, business 150 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 3: analytics tools. I'm so super pumped about what it can 151 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 3: genuinely what this world will transform into that I know 152 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 3: it's a particularly useful product. Ours is well made, and 153 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 3: so I get excited about. 154 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 2: The opportunity that it is for actually. 155 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 3: Mainly for our clients. So I come from a very 156 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 3: strong human cinder design customer experience background, and I know 157 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 3: that organizations need this type of technology and it's cool, right, 158 00:08:58,520 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 3: who doesn't love robot? 159 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 2: Let me think about that. So I get excited about 160 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 2: selling it and seeing. 161 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 3: It's probably also timing back to what you said about 162 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 3: the academic side of it. I do a lot of 163 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 3: work in educating the market and educating in investors and 164 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 3: educating boards and CEOs, and where I see kind of 165 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 3: the light go on the head around, Oh Okay, this 166 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 3: is not Terminator or west World. It actually can be 167 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 3: good for efficiency, good for engaging customers. Then that's exciting 168 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 3: to me. So I love that whole whole cycle. 169 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 2: You can't get enough of it. 170 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, And like on a kind of practical level, when 171 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: you've got a big sales meeting coming up, what's your 172 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: process for preparing for that? 173 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 3: Yeah? Right, So I have a particular that I'm very 174 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 3: happy to share the way that I would spend an 175 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 3: hour in a sales meeting, but in preparation for it, 176 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 3: we would I would make sure that there was a 177 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 3: for us as a technology company, so I have a 178 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 3: salesperson with me and a solution's architect, so someone who 179 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 3: can actually translate to technology. We would make sure that 180 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 3: we've kind of stalked whoeverywhere seeing before the sales meeting, 181 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 3: so we know exactly the background where they come, what 182 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 3: they're interested in. We might have done some analysis of 183 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 3: the company, what's in the media about them, what are 184 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 3: their business problems? 185 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: And how do you stalk someone? Like? Is it more 186 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 1: than just looking at their LinkedIn profile? Like what does 187 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: that look like? 188 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 3: So it's mainly look at their LinkedIn profile, but we 189 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 3: will kind of gang through Facebook or Twitter or some 190 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 3: other creepy channels as well just to find something. And 191 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 3: what I've found, it's actually really useful to find something 192 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 3: that personally, beyond professionally, you may have a connection with. 193 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 3: So we do a bit of that research. I might 194 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 3: get other people do that research. So sometimes I'll be 195 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 3: on my way to a meeting and I'm getting one 196 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 3: of the sales teams texting me, Okay, here's the person 197 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 3: you're meeting. Here is their background, here is what they're 198 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 3: interested in. I will also make sure I know what's 199 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 3: in the media that's going on, just in case there's 200 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 3: any sensitivity is and so we're pretty prepared when we 201 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 3: get there. But I also like sales meetings to be 202 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 3: a conversation, not a pitch, and that's I think. 203 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 2: Where it really needs to go. 204 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 3: Pitching is super boring for the client and for the salespeople. 205 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 3: So it's much for about how you engage in a 206 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 3: sales conversation. 207 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 2: So you want me to give you my hour. 208 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 1: I'd yes, yes, it's the secret doing. 209 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 2: I think that the secret's been taken, is it? Okay? 210 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 2: So this is what we do. 211 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 3: We'll start some americanisms, as you know, with an office 212 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 3: in New York, top of the hour, and we would 213 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 3: do initial introductions and then make sure that understood if 214 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,199 Speaker 3: the key people in the room, is there anything of 215 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 3: particularly interest they're interested in covering for the hour? So 216 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 3: we just but that nailed in five minutes, right, So 217 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 3: here's the people in the room. 218 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:52,599 Speaker 2: This is what they're interested in. Got it? 219 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:52,839 Speaker 1: Got it? 220 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 2: Got it? So you get their agendas out. 221 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: Front and sorry, I'll interrupted, how do you introduce yourself? 222 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: Like how do you kind of shortcut to credit ability? 223 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: Like you're you're a female, you've got a nos ring 224 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: which people can't see, a million dollar nosering? Yes, Like 225 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: how do you build credibility for yourself quickly? 226 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 2: Yeah? 227 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 3: Right, So I would take control of the meeting, and 228 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 3: I will make sure, even if there's a sort of 229 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 3: client hosting it, that I would graciously take control of 230 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 3: the meeting from them. So that's number one. Second thing 231 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 3: is I will always speak last. I think it's a 232 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,719 Speaker 3: sign of a great leader that they always speak last. 233 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 3: So everyone goes around and introduces themselves. Then I'll introduce 234 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 3: myself right at the end, very strong, positive body language, 235 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 3: strong voice, and introduce myself as a CEO and founder. 236 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 3: I will also often introduce myself as doctor Wallace, which 237 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 3: normally I wouldn't do because slightly I want to choking. 238 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 2: My vomit saying that. 239 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 3: But then just to establish that credibility upfront, and then 240 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 3: I will talk about the company very quickly, and I 241 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 3: will name the brands that we work with, which are 242 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 3: all very established, world class brands. So within that first 243 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 3: really five minutes five to seven minutes, depending on size 244 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,839 Speaker 3: of the group, you do want to establish mastery and 245 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 3: have the female have taken control, but taken and control 246 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 3: in a gracious way. I think, in a way a 247 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 3: true leader does, which I believe is you kind of 248 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 3: you go last, but you're still controlling the group. So 249 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 3: we will do that. Sometimes we will send ahead of 250 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 3: time quick bios, short bios on each of the team members, 251 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 3: and in those buyers we make sure we go oh, 252 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 3: Financial AFL, Businesswoman of the Year, and putting whatever else 253 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 3: we've got in there so they know who they're dealing with. 254 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 3: I think it's very important to establish mastery right up front, 255 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 3: particularly as a female lead. Then we would go so 256 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 3: say five seven minutes on that, then we go straight 257 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 3: into the establishing the problem in the market. So that 258 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 3: would be at the moment AIS the highs growing tech 259 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 3: sector in the world growing fivefold per annum. Thirty percent 260 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 3: of jobs in the financial services sector will be replaced 261 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 3: by robots within the next six years, et cetera, et cetera. 262 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 3: So give them paint the picture of the problem in 263 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 3: the market and organizations such as yours and many of 264 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 3: our other clients are facing X y Z problem. 265 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 2: You're trying to increase. 266 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 3: Your sales, reduce your cost, and provide a bit of 267 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 3: customer service. Almost impossible to do. So the solution to that, 268 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 3: one solution to that is an artificial intelligence automation solution. 269 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 3: So start off, educate them, create a picture of what 270 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 3: the problem is that they sit in, and then we'll 271 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 3: go straight into very briefly saying this is what we do, 272 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 3: and here's a demonstration of what we do. So demonstrations 273 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 3: are like hideous things, right, they just hideous things. They're 274 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 3: always bad. They're not, it's just terrible. But nobody understands 275 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 3: our technology into they see it. So I've learnt that 276 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 3: normally you might not in a sales pitch do a 277 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 3: demonstration right up front. But we have people still wondering 278 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 3: what's the robot, what has the software robot? How does 279 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 3: that work to right at the end, So you've just 280 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 3: got to kind of pull out everything that's in their head. 281 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 3: That's a question to start with. So within that first 282 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 3: fifteen to twenty minutes, they know who we are, we've 283 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 3: established mastery, we know what they're interested in, they know 284 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 3: a bit about the company, and they know what our 285 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 3: technology looks like. Then we would get into use cases. 286 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 3: So we'll go another five ten minutes, go okay, here's 287 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 3: an example of where it's been used in your industry, 288 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 3: and here's the results. Here's an example his results, here's 289 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 3: example his results. Maybe through those and so you're down 290 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 3: to the sort of half hour and they're pretty well 291 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 3: engaged now, and it's an exciting because in their mind 292 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 3: they'll be going, oh, yeah, that's mi pro I've got 293 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 3: that problem. Oh I've got that problem. Then we throw 294 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 3: it to them. The next fifteen to twenty minutes, it's okay, 295 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 3: over to you. What are the challenges that you're facing 296 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 3: some of them may have mentioned it in the introduction, 297 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 3: or what are some of the the problem that you're 298 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 3: having or goals that you're having, and then they will 299 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 3: brainstorm that. We just facilitate that around to about ten 300 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 3: minutes before the top of the hour. Then at that 301 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 3: stage we take the meeting back and we say, okay, 302 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 3: what would be some potential use cases that you could 303 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 3: see this technology providing. Five minutes on that they'll just 304 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 3: and so we'll just be writing that down and then 305 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 3: if we're very bold, we will actually say to them, 306 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 3: so to do an engagement like this, what sort of 307 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 3: budget would you be thinking? And how ready are you 308 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 3: to start working on an assignment like this? And so again, 309 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 3: something I've had to learn is to do the money 310 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 3: things straight up. Almost can be in the first meeting 311 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 3: done elegantly. It's a really really good thing to do. 312 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 3: And then by the end of that we've agreed on 313 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 3: next steps, which would be normally to write a proposal 314 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 3: for them. 315 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: How do you do the money thing elegantly? 316 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So I would say at the end of 317 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 3: the use case, Wow, that's great. We've got at least there, 318 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 3: you know, five really significant use cases. And I can 319 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 3: see that if on our experience, if we did that, 320 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,719 Speaker 3: you're likely to save a significant amount of money or 321 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 3: increase your conversion rates. That'd be great. So, if you 322 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 3: were looking to do this and we were considering a 323 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 3: budget to do a trial or a proof of concept, 324 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 3: what would be the ballpark at that budget, just so 325 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 3: we can go away and scope it up to meet 326 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 3: your requirements, and of course we can be bit flexib 327 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 3: would be great to get that ballpark now and they 328 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 3: might go, oh, we don't know, we're not sure, and 329 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 3: then we'll push it again and say, okay, So if 330 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 3: you were to think about what you would normally the 331 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 3: business would normally spend. Some of you will have a threshold, 332 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 3: say one hundred thousand dollars that you can sign off 333 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 3: underneath would you be working with something like that? And 334 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 3: typically you can get some indication of that. Great, thanks, well, 335 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 3: we will work to that, and of course we can refine 336 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 3: it down the track, so we kind of will push them, 337 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 3: push them to it. 338 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,479 Speaker 1: It's always so tricky. I find that in sales meetings 339 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: that no one has a budget, no. 340 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 3: So we just will just gently push them until they 341 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,120 Speaker 3: commit to normally something. 342 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: And with the first half of the sales meeting, like, 343 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: is that mainly you talking to them? Or how interactive 344 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,479 Speaker 1: is that when you're going here are your problems and 345 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: then here are some case studies. 346 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 3: Essentially, yeah, I tend to not have it too interactive, 347 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 3: even though that sounds a bit counterintuitive because they will 348 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 3: just hijack it off to oh, let us tell you 349 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 3: about this, and then someone, some well meeting person in 350 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 3: the room will tell you twenty minutes about one of 351 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 3: their efficiency problems or where they've used the robot before 352 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,959 Speaker 3: and it didn't work, or something like that. So we 353 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 3: take pretty good control of that first half. They get 354 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 3: a chance to introduce themselves, say, with the thing, and 355 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 3: then it's a matter us for that twenty minutes to 356 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 3: the half hour that we keep them highly engaged, keep 357 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 3: the pace up, keep it energetic, and then they can 358 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 3: certainly ask questions, but we wouldn't encourage it at that stage. 359 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 3: This is our twenty minutes to go Okay, here's what 360 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 3: we do. His examples, his use cases. Have a look 361 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 3: at it. Bang, Now we're ready to go okay, Okay. 362 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 3: That is counterintuitive. I feel like so many sales. 363 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: Textbooks, so like, let them talk, you know, listen for 364 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: seventy percent of the meeting, all those sorts. 365 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 2: Of things, right, Yeah. 366 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 3: I think in our sort of technology, which is AI 367 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 3: machine learning, often they don't understand what it is. So 368 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 3: we're in an educating role as well. So they've certainly 369 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 3: got the back half of the meeting to do that. 370 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 3: But in the first half of the meeting, a lot 371 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 3: of them, all of these sitting there going I don't 372 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 3: really know what AI is? Is she talking about machine learning? 373 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 3: Or is that supervised? 374 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 2: And I don't know. 375 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 3: Is this like Ivy and Watson or like Microsoft. I'm 376 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 3: not sure. Is this what my kids play with at home? 377 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 3: And so they'll have a whole bunch of things. So 378 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 3: really that first bit is less like a pitch and 379 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 3: more like an education session. 380 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense, That makes sense. Yeah, I'm kind 381 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: of thinking about that for my own work. And yeah, 382 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: that's it's interesting because innovation consulting is kind of it's 383 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: been gaining maturity, I guess, but still there's a great 384 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: degree of educating the market as to what do Yeah, yeah, 385 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 1: I want to change gears and talk about travel, because 386 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: you travel a lot. Can you just give listeners an 387 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 1: indication of just how much time you spent traveling? Yeah? 388 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 389 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 3: Up to last year, I was doing between third to 390 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 3: fifty percent of my time in the US, and I 391 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 3: would fly backward and forth to the Sydney office to 392 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 3: New York office, Sydney, New York offer. So I might 393 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 3: do three weeks here, two weeks there, four weeks here, 394 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 3: two weeks there, and go back and forth. So I've 395 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 3: done that solidly for you know, four years. 396 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Okay, tell me your your top travel tips. 397 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 3: Yes, So now it depends on which part of the 398 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,719 Speaker 3: plane you're into, right, So the vast majority of that 399 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 3: I was. I was not in the pointing of the 400 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 3: plane in cattle class, which I kind of. 401 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: Love because I think like as a CEO of a 402 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 1: successful company, you just assume that it's business class all 403 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:58,919 Speaker 1: the way. But I kind of love that. I mean, 404 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 1: it speaks to the fact that your your startup and. 405 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you got to keep it scrap completely completely. 406 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 3: And so I have seat forty four A, which is 407 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 3: which I've kind of worked out on a large airline, 408 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 3: is about where you want to sit for various reasons. 409 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 3: And wow, okay, particularly on contest of I'm finding New York. 410 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 3: Seat forty four A is the last row before a gap. 411 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 3: So and I wanted the window seats so I could 412 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 3: sort of sleep for the twenty six hours. And so 413 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 3: instead of waking up people to get climb over them 414 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 3: and get out to use the restrooms, I could just 415 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 3: jump over the back of the chair. 416 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 2: A bit nibble to do that. 417 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 3: Also, it was near where the flight attendants stood, so 418 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 3: I need anything, I just ask them often for whatever reason. 419 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 3: The seat next to it because it was probably near 420 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 3: the restrooms. You know, people didn't want that seat, so 421 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 3: often that seat would be bake So this unnatural level 422 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 3: of analysis, this I. 423 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:05,239 Speaker 2: Did really well. I love forty four A and then 424 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 2: just kind of manage the way. 425 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 3: So I also would learn to pack so that I 426 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 3: didn't have to check luggage in So I've done three 427 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 3: weeks in a New York winter with roll on luggage. Yeah, 428 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 3: I know that sounds gross, just with knowing how to 429 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 3: pack and wa to pack. So as much as I 430 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 3: am a lover of all things natural, when you're traveling 431 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 3: like that, you do not love natural things. You are 432 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 3: going for no natural fiber whatsoever in everything that you 433 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 3: have because you can shrink it down and roll it 434 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 3: up to very tiny, tiny little things and then shake 435 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,880 Speaker 3: it out. And who needs an iron? So probably terribly 436 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 3: not necessarily the most fashionable or necessarily good for your skin. 437 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 3: You can sheve a whole lot in there, warm clothes, 438 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 3: et cetera, in a roll on bag with a carry 439 00:22:58,720 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 3: on bag. 440 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: And then I and are you doing the like the 441 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: vacuum seal bags within your suitcase. I got some of 442 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 1: them from Catman dou so that I could do the same. 443 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 2: Did you actually ever do it? 444 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: Did you? 445 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 2: Such a matter? 446 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 3: No, But it's a similar sort of thing. So the 447 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 3: amount that I can get, I can get like thirty 448 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 3: two items of clothes into just a roll on ca 449 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 3: plus two or three pairs of shoes, plus toilet trees 450 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 3: all in a roll on. So it's a bit of 451 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 3: a craft it is. But I say, when you're not traveling, 452 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 3: natural fiber, that's it. You know, cotton, will lin, whatever 453 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 3: you like. When you're traveling, just get rid of that shit, 454 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 3: just going straight to straight to nylon. 455 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: Great, I go, what else like on your planety? So 456 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: visually sleeping for part of it? I think the flight 457 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,199 Speaker 1: to La leaves at nine or something like that, doesn't it, 458 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 1: So you're kind of in the air for like fourteen hours, 459 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: So like how are you dividing that time? Like do 460 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: you have a work a gender? And then how are 461 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 1: you getting yourself to sleep when it's the middle of 462 00:23:58,400 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: the day. 463 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, to be perfectly honest, I do. 464 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 3: So I've got a very good program around when to 465 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 3: sleep and when not to sleep. And I can pretty 466 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 3: much get off the plane in New York go, well, 467 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 3: you normally getting there in the afternoon, I'll stay up 468 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 3: till midnight and then I'm just normal the next day, 469 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 3: as I would do coming back here. But so here's 470 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 3: the secret, and it does involved a little bit of 471 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 3: Western medicine, because I tried all the Eastern medicine does 472 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 3: not work. Melotone and you know, all sorts of herbal stuff. 473 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 2: None, no, no. 474 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 3: So I will do a sleeping tablet on the way there, 475 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 3: and I will normally do that from Sydney to LA 476 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 3: doesn't matter what time of day. Anyone who's a CEO 477 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 3: or an innovator, you're tired all the time anyway, right, 478 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 3: so we're always we're always tired. So I would get 479 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 3: on there, just get settled in, might watch a movie 480 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 3: or something, might do a bit of work, get it 481 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 3: out of the way, and then I'll take a sleeping 482 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 3: tablet and I'll be out for eight hours, even in 483 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 3: forty four a outside the toilets against the window. 484 00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 2: I'll do that. 485 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 3: And that's super important. So the rule on flights is 486 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 3: just get as much sleep as possible, not to be 487 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 3: timing it too much. But when am I getting in 488 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 3: and what's the times? 489 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 2: I differ. 490 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 3: It's just sleep as much as you can because you'll 491 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 3: be it'll be missing when you get off anyway, So 492 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 3: I would try and crack out eight hours on that 493 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 3: forteen hours. Right then, going from LA or San Francisco 494 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 3: to New York is actually the most hitious flight in 495 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 3: the world. 496 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 2: Old planes, uncomfortable. 497 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 3: Bad entertainment or no entertainment, and you just pretty much 498 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 3: sitting up for five to six hours. So I will read, 499 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 3: I might listen to a podcast, but probably doze a 500 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,719 Speaker 3: bit if I can, but not really, because it's just 501 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 3: it's just a terrible length of time, right the five 502 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 3: to six hours an hour sort of get up an 503 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 3: hour to come down three hours in the middle is 504 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 3: just terrible. So I will probably not rely on getting 505 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,199 Speaker 3: any sleep there, but I will I will read, i 506 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 3: will listen, I'll meditate, I'll write some things up, and 507 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 3: that's that's quite nice. And then when I get off 508 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 3: the plane, I'm normally just alive and well and happy, 509 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 3: and the other thing is a state of mind. Even 510 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 3: though I've been to New York in the last four years, 511 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 3: I don't know, fifty times or something. It is such 512 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 3: a privilege, I'm so lucky. Is such a privilege that 513 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 3: I get to travel for job, for a job I 514 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 3: get to. 515 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 2: Go to the US. 516 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 3: New York in particular is an amazing city, and without doubt, 517 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 3: every time I get off the plane, I'm very grateful 518 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,479 Speaker 3: and very privileged that that's the life that I have 519 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,239 Speaker 3: in the opportunity they have. And so I get off 520 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 3: and I go, Wow, New York. I'm super excited. And 521 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 3: then of course New York is exciting. So regardless of 522 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 3: what time I get there's something's going on. Stay awake. 523 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 3: And then I do think it's a state of mind. 524 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 3: And I do absolutely believe you get travel fitness. It's 525 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 3: like I just get up the morning. Next day I 526 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 3: could be going, but I just get up and get 527 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 3: on with it and it works. 528 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: Wow. And this idea of landing in New York for 529 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: the fiftieth time and going, wow, I'm in New York. Like, 530 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 1: how do you I guess, constantly keep that perspective like 531 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: you mentioned meditation or like you know, is it just 532 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,640 Speaker 1: having gratitude rituals or how do you do that? 533 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, I have a family background in philanthropy and 534 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 3: human rights advocacy, and so I've come from a strong 535 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 3: background of knowing that life is not flying around on 536 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 3: planes between countries and living the hard life. I know 537 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 3: that life is not like that. It's a very few 538 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 3: of us who get to do that. So my whole perspective, 539 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 3: even in working in a tech company, is around what 540 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 3: can I do or build that will change the world 541 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 3: to be a bit better or ease human suffering in 542 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 3: some way, And every day I will just take stock 543 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 3: of that, why I'm doing it, for what purpose, and 544 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 3: remember that we're just incredibly lucky that where. 545 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 2: I am what I am. 546 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 3: I've been born into a good country without a lot 547 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 3: of the disadvantages of other underserved communities, and so that's 548 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 3: just a daily state of mind for me. So I 549 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 3: do just remember that every day, actually, not even if 550 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 3: I'm traveling or not, that I'm just very lucky to 551 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 3: have these opportunities and majority of people will never get them. 552 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 3: So there is an obligation on me, I believe, to 553 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 3: create those opportunities through this business and through what I 554 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 3: do for other people. 555 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: And how do you do that? Like is that conscious 556 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: on your part? Like is that part of just something 557 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: you do or is it just unconsciously in the back 558 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,199 Speaker 1: of your mind? Like what does that look like? 559 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 3: It's definitely unconscious and probably conscious, So unconscious it's the 560 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,959 Speaker 3: way I was brought up, so with a highly entrepreneurial 561 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 3: family who believed that we were to be of service 562 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 3: to community, to be high achievers so academically and in business. 563 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 3: But with that came the obligation to be of service 564 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 3: to community. So that's probably programmed in me. So that's 565 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 3: kind of a natural way, I think. And then I 566 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 3: do make sure that I step outside of my bubble 567 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 3: of startup tech. 568 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 2: ASX and I. 569 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 3: Have a lot of friends who are in philanthropic or 570 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 3: not for profits and spend time with them and go, oh, yeah, 571 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 3: actually that's the real in fact, as you know, my 572 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 3: son Hunter runs the Man Cave, which is looking at 573 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 3: adolescent mental health and masculinity, and some of the stories 574 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 3: he tells me about the boys that he's dealing with 575 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 3: are so tragic that I just need to be regularly 576 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 3: reminded that that's actually real life, and what we do 577 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 3: is sort of sits on top of life. And then 578 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 3: my partner, doctor Anna Rubinstein, runs writes passage programs for 579 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 3: men and boys and now more so women and girls, 580 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 3: helping people get through the really difficult transition phases in 581 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 3: their life. So I've surrounded myself with very philanthropic people 582 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 3: who are almost kind of on pay for the polar 583 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 3: opposite to what I am or what the work that 584 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 3: I do. But they're a beautiful reminder that you know 585 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 3: what life is actually about. I think those of us 586 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 3: in who are entrepreneurs or innovators, particularly in emerging tech 587 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 3: now have an absolute responsibility to be using that to 588 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 3: try and facilitate good and the east of suffering. 589 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And you mentioned one of your five children 590 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: just then, So there's a lot of kids, and I 591 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: know that you're youngest two are in their teens, they're 592 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: both in their chains now. They like, how has that 593 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: balance worked for you and is balanced? Believe in? Like, 594 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: what does that look like? 595 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 2: No balance? No, I don't believe. 596 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 3: I believe that it is an old industrial revolution archetype 597 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 3: that there is personal life and work life. I just 598 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 3: think this life and work is an integral part of 599 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 3: that life. And I think for women, work is an 600 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 3: integral part of life. So whether it's actually work out 601 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 3: of the homework in the home. You know, we're used 602 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 3: to working with we're good and hard workers. So with 603 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 3: the way that society is set up, traditional parenting and 604 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 3: particularly traditional mothering is not at all conducive to being 605 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 3: an entrepreneur trying to build a global business. 606 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 2: It just is really not. 607 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 3: So I've had to rethink models of parenting and think 608 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 3: about it in unconventional ways, and in fact that rolls 609 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 3: onto thinking of all relationships unconventionally, because if you are 610 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 3: running a business, doing a startup, there is no way 611 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 3: you can do conventionally anything because it's so demanding and 612 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 3: for you to do it well and to be a 613 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 3: high achiever, then you will have to put in huge 614 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 3: amount of hours, huge amount of travel. I love Ben 615 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 3: Horowitz is the hard thing about hard things. When he 616 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 3: talks about the struggle, you know you will have to 617 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 3: go through immense personal and professional and financial struggles. So 618 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 3: how do you know, go to KINDI reading group or 619 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 3: going anxursion or attend the Christmas concert. 620 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 2: You're unlikely to do that. 621 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 3: So I have a model now that around parenting, where 622 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 3: essentially the kids are on the journey with me and 623 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 3: the business. So they come to business meetings, they come 624 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 3: on travel, I take them out of school. They have 625 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 3: been all over America, They've been to Silicon Valley, they 626 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 3: spend plenty of time in New York, and they will 627 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 3: be brought up as unconventional children. Now they may lose 628 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 3: something a bit academically because I'll be pulling them out 629 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 3: of school a little bit, but they will and I 630 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 3: know they already have gained huge amount of experience in 631 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 3: the world. Example, in Indigo has just turned seventeen. I 632 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 3: put her on a plane in the beginning of December, 633 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 3: sent her to Mexico to San Miguel to work for 634 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 3: two months looking after children from underserved communities in a home, 635 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 3: and then she brought herself back on a plane two 636 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 3: months later. The first night she was away, I rang, 637 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 3: I said, hey, Andy, is everything going well? She said, well, 638 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 3: there was a guy murdered in the back lane, shot 639 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 3: nine times. We told we you know, we can't go 640 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 3: out of the of the center tonight. Okay, probably should 641 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 3: listen to them, But I trusted that she as a 642 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 3: she was sixteen then, to be able to have the 643 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 3: maturity to navigate herself, to travel all the way there, 644 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 3: to deal with it, to be responsible, to look after herself. 645 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 2: And she did. 646 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 3: She did it really exceptionally well. Came back now into 647 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 3: year twelve a transformed child. So for everything that they 648 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 3: might lose by not having a really intense traditional parenting. 649 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 2: I hope that they. 650 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 3: Will gain in being able to be free spirits, open 651 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 3: minded and build resilience. And I think I'm learning more 652 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 3: and more for we, the entrepreneurs and the family of 653 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 3: the entrepreneurs, resilience is everything. 654 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 1: You talk about unconventional relationships, and like, something about you 655 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: that I hugely admire is that you seem to know everyone, 656 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: and I feel like you have close relationships with an 657 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 1: infinite number of people, but they're very genuine and I 658 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: want to know, like what do you do? And again 659 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's conscious or unconscious, Like to 660 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: I feel like you build rapport and relationships with people 661 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,879 Speaker 1: more quickly than almost anyone I know, And like, how 662 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 1: do you do that? Oh? 663 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 2: Well, thank you? I appreciate that. 664 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 3: So for me, because a lot of my time is 665 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,800 Speaker 3: working or away or traveling. When I am with people, 666 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:41,800 Speaker 3: it's super important for me to be enormously present and 667 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 3: just listen. That's what I like to do, and I 668 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:48,320 Speaker 3: really as I'm becoming a more mature leader, this listening 669 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 3: is what I'm finding is almost a secret to everything. 670 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 3: So for me, it will always be just spend time, 671 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 3: even if it was ten minutes fifteen minutes just to 672 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 3: be entirely present, shut everything else out, and I want 673 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,879 Speaker 3: to know about you, and I just want to hear 674 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 3: about you, how you're doing, like a check in, and 675 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:13,240 Speaker 3: then I'm happy to share something or do an exchange, 676 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,760 Speaker 3: but it really will be around just being entirely present 677 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 3: and not distracted at all. Even for that ten to 678 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 3: fifteen minutes is probably the equivalent to people going away 679 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 3: for a weekend and kind of just shooting the shit. 680 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 3: You can do that in fifteen minutes, And that's enormously 681 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 3: important to me because the more I learn about technology, 682 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 3: the more I realize. 683 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 2: It's about people. 684 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 3: So these relationships, to me are actually the most important 685 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 3: thing in the world, even though I'm building machines that 686 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 3: potentially replace human relationships. 687 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 1: So I feel like I've been on the receiving end 688 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: of that just intense listening that you do where it 689 00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: feels like I'll do like several months, download to you 690 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 1: in like ten fifteen minutes, and I feel like we're 691 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 1: caught up, and then you know, I'll get the same 692 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,799 Speaker 1: from you, Like I feel like small talk is not 693 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: a thing for you, but I want to know, like 694 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,360 Speaker 1: when you're when you're building those relationships. Like let's just 695 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: say you meet someone at an event or a conference, 696 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,879 Speaker 1: and I don't know if it's a conscious decision where 697 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: you go, I really like this person, I want them 698 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 1: in my kind of group, Like how do you do 699 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: that in those initial kind of minutes moments if you like? 700 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 2: Yeah? 701 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 3: So I think the way that I do that is 702 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:37,240 Speaker 3: certainly I will ask us some a bit about themselves, 703 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 3: so not in like a super creepy interviewe way, but 704 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 3: just in a kind of a friendly way. And I 705 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 3: think where's Australians We can get away with that anywhere 706 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 3: in the world, right because they just want to hear 707 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 3: us talk mainly, and we're kind of just you're easygoing. 708 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 3: So I think that that helps, particularly overseas. But for me, 709 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 3: it will be just hearing a bit about the person, 710 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 3: maybe the job that they do, but also so about 711 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 3: them personally. So I might actually ask a few questions 712 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 3: that normal people might not ask. 713 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 2: Well, okay, so I might. 714 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 3: Say, hey, hey mantho, how are you? 715 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 2: What do you know? What do you do? Who you with? 716 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 3: And you might say, like the CEO of Inventium and 717 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 3: I go okay, okay, cool, what does you know, what 718 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,840 Speaker 3: do you do there and what does the business do? 719 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:24,879 Speaker 3: And you might talk with that and I'll go, oh, 720 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 3: it's so interesting. I've got an interest in that, and 721 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,880 Speaker 3: we'll find some connection. And then I might asking you so, 722 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 3: you know, hey, you know, what else do you do? 723 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:33,839 Speaker 3: Because you look like a super interesting person, what else 724 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 3: do you do? And you might go, oh, like I'm 725 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,800 Speaker 3: a snowboarder, or this is what I'm reading at the moment, 726 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 3: and I'll try and find that there's something personal to 727 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 3: then take it to Oh, we're actually two normal people 728 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 3: having a normal people conversation out of the kind of 729 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,399 Speaker 3: creepy with business world that we live in. And then 730 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 3: I also just think it's being open. Often I will 731 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,879 Speaker 3: share some things about me. I might even share things 732 00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:58,839 Speaker 3: that are difficult. You might say, you know, i've got 733 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,359 Speaker 3: young Frankie and it's kind of hard being, you know, 734 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 3: trying to run business and raise kids. And I go, yeah, totally, 735 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 3: so I know that too, and this is my situation, 736 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 3: and I'll probably be quite vulnerable. I can actually I 737 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 3: just don't mind. I just kind of tell it as 738 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,280 Speaker 3: it is, and it won't with me. It won't always 739 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 3: be the good news story or everything's going well. I'll 740 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 3: tell you if something is really sucky in my life. 741 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 3: And I think it's just that vulnerability, transparency and the 742 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,279 Speaker 3: human connection on something real. It's not just business that 743 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 3: you can do. And you can do it at events. 744 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 2: Man. 745 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,239 Speaker 3: I go to this big Las Vegas event every year 746 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 3: that in a short tech event, which is like ten 747 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 3: thousand people, and I will have like eight thousand friends 748 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 3: at the end of it. I will, and I love it. 749 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 3: And it's also genuine for me. I'm also not networking 750 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 3: because I want to use for your business opportunity. I 751 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,320 Speaker 3: actually just probably like people and think that you're cool. 752 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 3: Everyone's cool actually, and everyone has a story, and I'm 753 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:57,839 Speaker 3: pretty interested in there. 754 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,399 Speaker 1: Are you actually quite extra personality wise or. 755 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 2: Not at all? And it's so interesting. 756 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 3: No, so if you do Myers brigs something, I'm introverted, 757 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 3: and I think so if we look at the real 758 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 3: definition of that, you know, where do I find my 759 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 3: solace and where do I find my lot of inspiration? 760 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:22,439 Speaker 3: And stuff will be internally just probably yes, I say 761 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,359 Speaker 3: meditation a bloody useless a meditating actually, but the eye 762 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 3: sort of forms of it. But and I do need 763 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 3: time where I'm just on my own, but I've kind 764 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 3: of learned to be extroverted, so because I think you 765 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 3: need to need to be both, and it certainly need 766 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 3: to be both. If you're a leader trying to change 767 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,680 Speaker 3: and build new things, you need that reflection time. So 768 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,920 Speaker 3: I love is that Ray dali O who talks about 769 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:48,840 Speaker 3: pain and reflection. 770 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 2: That's it, and pain is probably extroverted. 771 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 3: You've got out and you've done something hasn't worked, and 772 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:57,839 Speaker 3: you've fucked it up, and you come back and then 773 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 3: the reflection time is okay, I need to be reverted. 774 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 2: I need to just be on that. 775 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 3: And I have an expression which I've used with you, 776 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,240 Speaker 3: I know, which is someone might bring us where you know, where. 777 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 2: Are you cat go? I'm the long Holo mirrors. 778 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 3: You know, I've had to go long Holo mirrors and 779 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 3: have a look at myself because that didn't work or 780 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 3: I messed that up, or that failed, and shit, I've 781 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 3: got to go and actually really genuinely see what I 782 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,840 Speaker 3: did wrong. And I love that in the Ben Horowitz 783 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 3: book The Hard Things, where he talks about you know, 784 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,840 Speaker 3: if you're the CEO when things are failing, you know, 785 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,320 Speaker 3: you're probably blame the market and you're probably blaming the investors, 786 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 3: and you're probably blaming employees, but actually it's you. You're 787 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 3: the onely stuffed up and you're you're the failure. Actually, yeah, 788 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 3: pretty much that's it. And so you need to be 789 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:47,399 Speaker 3: having introverted part of you that can genuinely take that back, 790 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 3: get rid of all the defenses and go, Okay, why 791 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 3: isn't this working. There's some probably fundamental flaw in me 792 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 3: that I need to work on myself in order to 793 00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 3: fix the business. 794 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: Do you like reflect regularly? Is that almost built into 795 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: your routine or is it more something will trigger it 796 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:08,719 Speaker 1: and you'll go, I need to think about that. 797 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 3: Like book, I look like, yeah, partly it's external because 798 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:13,600 Speaker 3: I have a lot of people that would like to 799 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 3: give me really really critical. 800 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:22,720 Speaker 2: Feedback all the time. There's share, there is the board, 801 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:23,320 Speaker 2: there are. 802 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 3: Employees, and I set it up that I welcome that feedback. 803 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,759 Speaker 3: So I think it is a super important thing for 804 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,399 Speaker 3: a leader that you have relationships where people can actually say, hey, 805 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,279 Speaker 3: you did that that really sucked, you did that that 806 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 3: didn't work, or you're going to do that I think 807 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 3: that's going to fail. And there's no they don't have 808 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,239 Speaker 3: apprehension about telling you that because you're the leader. So 809 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 3: I think I get yeah, I get plenty of external feedback. 810 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 3: But any you know, anyone who's running a small company 811 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 3: or running a startup, you know it's it's ninety nine 812 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,720 Speaker 3: percent punch in the face and one percent oh great, 813 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,759 Speaker 3: someone actually said that I did something good or the 814 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 3: business achieves something. So it is pretty much been punched 815 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 3: in the face all the time, and you have to 816 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 3: get used to that, and you have to not take 817 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 3: it personally, and you have to be able to reflect 818 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 3: on that, pull it apart. What is it that I 819 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:11,880 Speaker 3: can learn? 820 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:12,680 Speaker 2: So I did. 821 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:19,480 Speaker 3: I fundamentally believe in the learning mindset and that ties 822 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,759 Speaker 3: to the growth mindset that most innovators and entrepreneurs are 823 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:23,239 Speaker 3: aware of. 824 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 2: But the growth mindset being. 825 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,520 Speaker 3: That everything is just a learning opportunity and if you 826 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 3: can turn your business and your stuff and yourself into okay, 827 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,600 Speaker 3: I really you know, fuck that up really badly or 828 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:37,320 Speaker 3: that just didn't work, that failed, instead of beating yourself 829 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:38,879 Speaker 3: up or people or the business up. 830 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 2: Okay, what did I learn? 831 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,600 Speaker 3: And not in that kind of cliched way, but in 832 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,880 Speaker 3: a genuine okay, what can I learn? And I don't 833 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,840 Speaker 3: want to I don't need to feel all the feelings 834 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,399 Speaker 3: of failure all the time if I turn it into 835 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,439 Speaker 3: a learning environment and it just gives you much more 836 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,799 Speaker 3: resilience and inspiration, I think to go, okay, right, well, 837 00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,799 Speaker 3: we won't be doing that again, but we will do 838 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 3: next time. So that learning mindset is a savior for 839 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,960 Speaker 3: me mentally and emotionally in this business when things are 840 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 3: so out of control that I've got nothing else other 841 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:15,919 Speaker 3: than myself and what I can learn. 842 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:18,759 Speaker 1: And so is that what you're asking yourself when you're 843 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,719 Speaker 1: getting punched in the face, so to speak? Like is 844 00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,200 Speaker 1: that just the reflex? Now You're like, what can I 845 00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:24,799 Speaker 1: learn from this? 846 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:25,719 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah? 847 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:26,839 Speaker 1: Like is it as simple as that? 848 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:27,239 Speaker 2: Well? 849 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 3: I used to be highly defensive, right. I took everything 850 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:31,239 Speaker 3: personally and I a big defended defend of it. And 851 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:32,880 Speaker 3: I'm really good at that. I'm really good at putting 852 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 3: at arguments why I didn't do anything wrong or they 853 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,000 Speaker 3: can't do anything wrong, and everyone else there was a problem. 854 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 3: And I've learned over time that that's just not functional. 855 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:43,520 Speaker 3: So I will do the same thing. I just listen, 856 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,200 Speaker 3: just take it, take it, take it, take it, take encourage. Okay, 857 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,000 Speaker 3: tell me more, tell me more, how we fail out 858 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:49,000 Speaker 3: to me before, how we let you down? 859 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:50,880 Speaker 2: Okay, got it, got it, got it great. 860 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 3: I am going to take that away and I'm going 861 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,359 Speaker 3: to do something with that, and then I'll run through 862 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,960 Speaker 3: my own process where initially it'll be all you denial, no, no, no, 863 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 3: they don't know or with me, and then go, okay, yeah, 864 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 3: that part of what they said is absolutely true, and 865 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,360 Speaker 3: I'm that is not a good thing that I do. 866 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,400 Speaker 3: That's not a good leader behavior, or that's not a 867 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,920 Speaker 3: good decision. And I just need to own that, and 868 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,440 Speaker 3: I need to viscerally own that, and I need to 869 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,919 Speaker 3: feel it, and I need to go Okay, got it. Now, 870 00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,040 Speaker 3: Now let me start building so I won't do that again, 871 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,800 Speaker 3: or building to fix that problem. And the more I 872 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,919 Speaker 3: do work in leadership and the harder it gets, the 873 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:30,440 Speaker 3: more internal I will go. 874 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,480 Speaker 1: In the last few minutes that we've got, Oh, there's 875 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,080 Speaker 1: so much I could ask you. I do want to 876 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 1: ask though, about social media, because I feel like, you know, 877 00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,200 Speaker 1: in amongst all the negative backlash that is happening to 878 00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,839 Speaker 1: the social media giants like you're you know, you're You're 879 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:51,000 Speaker 1: still like pretty regularly on Facebook, I kind of I 880 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,560 Speaker 1: log on for about five minutes a month, and what 881 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,719 Speaker 1: is guaranteed is some hilarious posts from you and some 882 00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,879 Speaker 1: rubbish from a lot of other people. Like what's your 883 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,040 Speaker 1: attitude right now towards social media? What role does it 884 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:03,720 Speaker 1: play for you? 885 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it plays only one role really, and that 886 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 3: is to keep me connected with people that I care about. 887 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,480 Speaker 3: So yeah, we do a bit in business social media, 888 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 3: not a lot. You know, our company is not a 889 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:20,120 Speaker 3: company that necessarily will benefit yet from a huge active 890 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:25,239 Speaker 3: social media campaigns. But for me, social media is a 891 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,800 Speaker 3: connection to people that I care about. So I don't 892 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,640 Speaker 3: have I have like a massive group of friends and 893 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,759 Speaker 3: in there that's where I'll post, but I'll tell I'll 894 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,399 Speaker 3: try and tell the kind of real stories and often 895 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,080 Speaker 3: they're like real stories of what's gone wrong. Because I 896 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,920 Speaker 3: do a lot in the public media, which is all 897 00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,920 Speaker 3: kind of you know, I was gonna say gloss and 898 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:45,799 Speaker 3: glamor there's nothing glamorous about me, but it's. 899 00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,160 Speaker 2: All you know, it's all a medium story story stories. 900 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,520 Speaker 3: I like to just offset that in my own social 901 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,319 Speaker 3: media channels, like like oh okay, well here's a bit 902 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:55,319 Speaker 3: of my life that's a bit shit, or here's me 903 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,360 Speaker 3: and C forty four A with now chronic hip displays 904 00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,160 Speaker 3: because I've sat in that far in chair for so long. 905 00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:05,480 Speaker 3: Here's my children here are asleep because it's so horribly 906 00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,560 Speaker 3: jetlagged because I've dragged them out of school forever, and 907 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,360 Speaker 3: I just like to kind of just keep it balanced. 908 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:12,399 Speaker 2: But I've got a. 909 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,799 Speaker 3: General view on digital, which will include social media on 910 00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,279 Speaker 3: and a lot of the public speaker I'm doing now 911 00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,479 Speaker 3: it touches on this. Really, digital is starting to fail 912 00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,680 Speaker 3: us in many many ways, so it's not amounted to 913 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:26,359 Speaker 3: be what it was set out to be as far 914 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,400 Speaker 3: as growth for businesses and other than perhaps online banking, 915 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:32,920 Speaker 3: which is pretty awesome, the rest is kind of an 916 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:37,520 Speaker 3: average experience. We've improved a bit from what was previously 917 00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:41,720 Speaker 3: on phone calls, but not really. So I've had chats 918 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:46,480 Speaker 3: with CEOs from large main US organizations who've said digital 919 00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,480 Speaker 3: is failing us. It's now time for something else and 920 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:56,240 Speaker 3: within that, and I believe that's AI amplifying existing legacy 921 00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:00,600 Speaker 3: systems including digital and augmenting humans or amplifying augmentors that 922 00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:05,840 Speaker 3: we talk about. But social media is part of that 923 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:10,120 Speaker 3: digital or strategy. So a lot is still very good 924 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:14,520 Speaker 3: with it a lot is terrible. I'm very interested in 925 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,400 Speaker 3: what's going to come beyond that, So we would expect 926 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,200 Speaker 3: in the next year there's going to be some massive 927 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,720 Speaker 3: blow ups of the social media companies, data breaches, cybersecurity, 928 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:26,440 Speaker 3: all of that is as it started to happen, and 929 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,080 Speaker 3: we'll see it. We'll see it get really a lot 930 00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,759 Speaker 3: worse before we then transform into into the next era, 931 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:37,200 Speaker 3: which I think will be a much more around no apps, 932 00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:44,120 Speaker 3: social media, transformation into AI and machine learning based could 933 00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:48,160 Speaker 3: be virtual assistance, could be other types of programs, right 934 00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,080 Speaker 3: before we get to the era of transhumanism where we 935 00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:52,520 Speaker 3: start to embed software our bodies. 936 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,680 Speaker 2: But that's a subject for number another day. 937 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,479 Speaker 1: And on that note, I feel like we're out of time, 938 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,239 Speaker 1: so we got Thank you so much. Has been fascinating 939 00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:03,200 Speaker 1: hearing about your. 940 00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:04,600 Speaker 2: Life such a pleasure. 941 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,759 Speaker 1: Thanks MENTA hello there. I hope you enjoyed my chat 942 00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,880 Speaker 1: with Kat And if you know someone who would also 943 00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,319 Speaker 1: enjoy it, why not share the episode with them and 944 00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:18,200 Speaker 1: tell them about how I work. That would be absolutely 945 00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,040 Speaker 1: awesome if you do that, So thank you. If you're 946 00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,399 Speaker 1: sharing how I work with other people who you think 947 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,680 Speaker 1: could benefit. So that is it for today's show and 948 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,040 Speaker 1: I will see you next time.