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Speaker 1: And joining me in the studio as she does about

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Speaker 1: this time every Wednesday morning. It's the opposition leader Leah

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Speaker 1: Fanoki Are Oh, good morning too.

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Speaker 2: Do you want in cadence your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Leah a direction on mandatory vaccination? As I said, expected today,

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Speaker 1: it's going to cover those three criteria. Do you support

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Speaker 1: this move?

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Speaker 2: Yes, we do, of course.

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Speaker 3: About a month ago the Gunner government made the announcement

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Speaker 3: that there would be mandatory vaccines in the territory, but

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Speaker 3: with very little detail, and that's caused a lot of

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Speaker 3: angst in the community of course, around well what.

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Speaker 2: Does this mean? What does this look like?

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Speaker 3: So we're certainly hoping and I don't have any information

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Speaker 3: because the government do not like to keep us briefed

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Speaker 3: on these critical issues. But I'm certainly hoping that at

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Speaker 3: eleven the Chief Health Officer is the one providing the detail.

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Speaker 3: People want to hear it from him, not the Chief minister,

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Speaker 3: and that it provides very clear information that people can

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Speaker 3: work within those boundaries. Well, and it is looking as

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Speaker 3: though it's going to be the likes of those that

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Speaker 3: are frontline health workers, emergency workers, anyone who is in

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Speaker 3: a transient population. I some of our remote communities. It

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Speaker 3: is also by the look of.

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Speaker 1: It, going to include you know, like GPS and pharmacies

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Speaker 1: for example, having people come in there, and then of course,

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Speaker 1: like I said, those working on essential infrastructure, so supply

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Speaker 1: all logistics as well. There's no doubt that this is

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Speaker 1: going to have an impact on some people who are

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Speaker 1: still unsure.

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Speaker 2: About that vaccine. Yeah, do they just have to suck

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Speaker 2: it up?

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Speaker 3: Well, the devil will be in the detail today, Katie.

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Speaker 3: But we know that getting the vaccine is the best

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Speaker 3: way to keep yourself safe, your family and the community.

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Speaker 3: It's the only way for things to return to whatever

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Speaker 3: that you know, new normal. I absolutely hate that phrase,

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Speaker 3: but you know it's you know, what we're sort of

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Speaker 3: saying at the moment.

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Speaker 2: But it really needs to be very very clear.

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Speaker 3: So what we've seen during various lockdowns and other periods

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Speaker 3: during this pandemic is confusion around, for example, what is

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Speaker 3: an essential worker, who's allowed to be at work, who's not,

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Speaker 3: And so whenever these new rules are going to be

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Speaker 3: around who has to be vaccinated and who who doesn't.

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Speaker 2: Even though of course we want everyone.

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Speaker 3: To be vaccinated, that needs to be really clear because

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Speaker 3: the last thing people want is uncertainty, and particularly for

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Speaker 3: the business owners and management right across the territory he'll

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Speaker 3: be implementing this, they need to know really clearly what's

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Speaker 3: in and what's out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that that is going to be a

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Speaker 1: point that we need some real clarity on. Is for

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Speaker 1: those businesses, if you're going to have to refuse people

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Speaker 1: coming in, if you know, if they're not vaccinated, then

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Speaker 1: there needs to be that real clarity so that they

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Speaker 1: know exactly what what framework they're working in.

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Speaker 3: And what happens to people who are unvaccinated. Is it

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Speaker 3: that they're not allowed to work anymore? Is it that

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Speaker 3: they have to have different ppe requirements? Are they just

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Speaker 3: a shifted positions?

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: There people have a lot of questions and I really

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Speaker 3: hope that at eleven o'clock those questions are answered.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 1: We spoke yesterday at length about the vaccination rate and

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Speaker 1: the discrepancies between the data which is being shared by

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory and the federal governments.

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Speaker 2: No matter how.

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Speaker 1: You look at it, there is serious work which needs

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Speaker 1: to happen, particularly in some of remote communities. What do

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Speaker 1: you think we do need to do if some of

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Speaker 1: these communities choose not to be vaccinated, should they just

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Speaker 1: be shut off?

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Speaker 3: Well, this is an issue we've been raising. I mean

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Speaker 3: I spoke about this as early as May Katie, three

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Speaker 3: months into the rollout. I was saying, particularly in the

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Speaker 3: Central Desert at that time, that the vaccine rollout had

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Speaker 3: not worked. Government hadn't done the work it needed to

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Speaker 3: ensure that the right information was getting into communities and

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Speaker 3: that people felt comfortable and confident with the vaccine. And

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Speaker 3: of course now here we are many months later, and

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Speaker 3: the vaccine rate in some communities is just not where

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Speaker 3: it needs to be. So, you know, this is a

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Speaker 3: bit of an issue where it's I wish we weren't

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Speaker 3: talking about this. If we had jumped on this earlier

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Speaker 3: and been more proactive, we might not be having this conversation.

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Speaker 3: But you know, ultimately, you know, the government has to

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Speaker 3: work out what the best way is to manage that

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Speaker 3: vaccine numbers and then how we reopen essentially, and so

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Speaker 3: we've been very clear that we think the data should

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Speaker 3: be territory jabs, not jabs in the territory.

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Speaker 2: They're two very different things.

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Speaker 3: And of course we've got this disparity between the Commonwealth data,

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Speaker 3: which is based purely on territorians and the territory government

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Speaker 3: data excuse me, which includes any job delivered in the territory.

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Speaker 3: So I think it hasn't been healthy to put it

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Speaker 3: that way, that the Gunner government haven't been very clear

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Speaker 3: about why they're calculating the jobs in the way they

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Speaker 3: are and why they didn't put the investment in at

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Speaker 3: the start with remote communities.

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Speaker 2: And then when you look.

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Speaker 1: At those remote communities, if we do have a situation

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Speaker 1: where some of those communities do choose not to get

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Speaker 1: that vaccination, should they be shut off.

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't know that you can just shut people off.

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Speaker 3: I genuinely don't know how that would work. Of course,

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Speaker 3: during the initial phases of COVID we had the biosecurity zones.

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Speaker 3: I would imagine that the Gunner government are going through

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Speaker 3: their legal health and other advice to try and work

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Speaker 3: out how they protect as many people as possible.

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Speaker 2: Was also reopening our economy.

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Speaker 3: So it's not an easy task, for sure, But I

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Speaker 3: can't help but just reflect on the fact that you know,

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Speaker 3: we've been concerned about this for so long and raised

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Speaker 3: it so many times and just nothing changed. It's such

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Speaker 3: a shame now where we seem to be at this

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Speaker 3: point where all of a sudden, everything's urgent and yet

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Speaker 3: nothing much is changing.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's see if we can get some further clarity today,

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Speaker 1: because I know that there are a lot of people

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Speaker 1: listening who want to know exactly what the plan is

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Speaker 1: over the Christmas period as well, if they are going

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Speaker 1: to be able to have family come and visit, if

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Speaker 1: they're going to be able to travel home and then

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Speaker 1: come back, if they're double jabbed. So we'll wait and

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Speaker 1: see exactly what clarity we get at eleven o'clock this morning. Now,

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Speaker 1: yesterday we spoke to Josh Burgoyne about what he described

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Speaker 1: as a sharp increase in youth offending since the Gunna

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Speaker 1: government's new youth bail laws came into place in May.

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Speaker 1: The information was obtained, as we know, through questions from

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Speaker 1: the opposition or notice to the government, and it showed

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Speaker 1: that sixty two arrests were youth offenders already on bail.

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Speaker 1: What do you think that these figures demonstration?

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Speaker 3: I think it's horrific that in two and a half months,

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Speaker 3: one hundred youths were arrested and of those one hundred

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Speaker 3: youth sixty odd were already on bail, so they were

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Speaker 3: already had been bailed for other offending to be re

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Speaker 3: captured by police and then of those sixty forty four

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Speaker 3: were bailed again. So that's at least three times someone

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Speaker 3: has been bailed in a you know, two and a

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Speaker 3: half months period. I mean it's appalling. Of course we've

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Speaker 3: seen you know zicicoli IgA. Of course everyone's getting to

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Speaker 3: know Shelley very well because she's putting that human face

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Speaker 3: to the policy failures of the Gunner government. So we

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Speaker 3: feel for our police, we feel for the victims. We've

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Speaker 3: been calling for tougher action around bail. We'd really like

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Speaker 3: to see breach of bail condition as an offense bought

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Speaker 3: brought back, and we tried to bring that legislation into

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Speaker 3: Parliament and we got knocked down by government. We'd really

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Speaker 3: like to see repeat offenders not have a presumption in

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Speaker 3: favor of bail. You know, there's lots of proactive measures

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Speaker 3: we're trying to send to the government and say hey,

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Speaker 3: these are going to make a difference, but ultimately the

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Speaker 3: government's got their eyes closed and they don't want to

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Speaker 3: know about it.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 1: The Police Minister Nicole Madison says that you know, what

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Speaker 1: these figures show is that those changes are working. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to what she had to say yesterday at

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Speaker 1: a press conference.

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Speaker 4: We have more mechanisms to make more people accountable through

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Speaker 4: electronic monitoring, supervised bail's accommodation. These are important tools to

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Speaker 4: make sure that these young people are held more accountable

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Speaker 4: for their actions and also that if they're out there

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Speaker 4: in the community and they are accessing these diversion programs,

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Speaker 4: that they're more likely to succeed and then not hit

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Speaker 4: down the pathway of becoming an adult criminal.

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Speaker 1: I guess you know, some listening might think, Okay, we'll

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Speaker 1: do These numbers actually demonstrate if we've got between the

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Speaker 1: fifteenth of May twenty twenty one until the first of

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Speaker 1: August twenty twenty one, showing that one hundred youths were

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Speaker 1: arrested one hundred and twenty two times, there were sixty

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Speaker 1: two arrests where a youth offender was on bail at

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Speaker 1: the time of their risk, and on forty four of

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Speaker 1: those occasions bail was granted. Again, some listening might think, okay, well,

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Speaker 1: it does seem as though we've had more risks than

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Speaker 1: what we've had in previous years. So does it actually

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Speaker 1: show that these changes are working.

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Speaker 3: No, And our police are doing a fantastic job. They

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Speaker 3: must be pulling their hair out with what they have

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Speaker 3: to deal with day and day out, Katie and we

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Speaker 3: fight hard for our police every single day. But what

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Speaker 3: this shows is that people are being bailed despite continuing

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Speaker 3: to be a risk to our community. Now, bail is

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Speaker 3: that second chance, you know, it's sort of like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: you've done the wrong thing, you want to go change

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Speaker 3: your life.

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Speaker 2: Do diversion have a second chance?

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Speaker 3: Fine, you know, and I think most people can accept that,

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Speaker 3: depending on the severity of the crime. But to have

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Speaker 3: instances where out of the sixty two US were already

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Speaker 3: on bail at the time their arrest and then forty

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Speaker 3: four got bailed again, I think that just demonstrates a

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Speaker 3: broken system, you know. And for some people it might

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Speaker 3: be easy to try and blame the courts. You know,

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Speaker 3: that's not the courts, that's the legislation they have to

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Speaker 3: work with, and that's the job of the parliament, and

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Speaker 3: the parliament are elected by the people.

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Speaker 1: Needs to change because you know, obviously, obviously the government

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Speaker 1: would say that they are locking more young people up

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Speaker 1: and that there are more arrests being made. I know

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Speaker 1: that the Minister for Police said that this is the

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Speaker 1: legislation that the police asked for, that they've given the

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Speaker 1: police the mechanisms that.

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Speaker 2: They had asked for. So what needs to change.

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Speaker 3: Well, I really I really question whether that's actually true, Katie,

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Speaker 3: But we may never know the answer to that. But

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Speaker 3: you know what needs to change is that we actually

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Speaker 3: start delivering consequences. Of course, the Gunner government in the

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Speaker 3: lead up to the last election tried to talk very

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Speaker 3: tough on crime. They promised that there would be community

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Speaker 3: service for offenders and all these types of people would

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Speaker 3: be out there paining graffiti and picking up rubbish.

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Speaker 2: Well none of that is happening.

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Speaker 3: That they've completely not delivered on any of those promises

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Speaker 3: around those alternative sentencing options. And then of course they've

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Speaker 3: weakened their bow laws. So we know at the last

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Speaker 3: minute government made amendments to their toughest ever crime legislation

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Speaker 3: which then provided all these outs for people, you know,

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Speaker 3: exceptional circumstances. There were three or four things that gave

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Speaker 3: people a carve out to once again be bailed, and

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Speaker 3: so we think there's a really clear approach. Of course,

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Speaker 3: you've got to deal with things at the start of

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Speaker 3: someone's life and make sure that they're supported and going

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Speaker 3: to live a good, healthy life. But also if you

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Speaker 3: are offending, particularly repeat offending, you are showing you have

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Speaker 3: total utter disregard for the law.

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Speaker 1: And look, I want to take a look at this

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Speaker 1: story that has been reported from overnight and we did

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Speaker 1: mention it in the local news. The Northern Territory News

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Speaker 1: is reporting that police allege they apprehended in this and

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Speaker 1: X trail with an eleven year old behind the wheel

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Speaker 1: and several adult passengers.

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Speaker 2: In the early hours of this morning.

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Speaker 1: So at about one o'clock this morning, police say the

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Speaker 1: vehicle was apprehended on Gazelle Street in Casarina. Police allege

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Speaker 1: an eleven year old was driving the vehicle and sitting

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Speaker 1: in the place of the driver's head rest with four

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Speaker 1: other occupants, at least some of whom were add of.

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Speaker 1: They further alleged that all five occupants, one female and

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Speaker 1: four males, alighted from the vehicle, with one occupant running away.

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Speaker 1: The occupant who allegedly fled was located by the police

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Speaker 1: a short time later when police attended the owner's Casuarina address.

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Speaker 1: The news about their car came as a surprise, and

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Speaker 1: police say the owner was sleeping and unaware that their

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Speaker 1: residents had been entered and a vehicle stolen. Now, I've

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Speaker 1: got to tell you, as a parent of a ten

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Speaker 1: year old, hearing that an eleven year old was behind

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Speaker 1: the wheel of a vehicle is absolutely mortifying to me,

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Speaker 1: not only when you look at the safety of that

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Speaker 1: person to themselves and everybody else in that car, but everybody.

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Speaker 2: Else on the row. Absolutely, it's horrifying. It is horrifying.

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Speaker 3: What is an eleven year old doing stealing a car

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Speaker 3: and driving a car and under adult supervision. Apparently this

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Speaker 3: is a huge problem. And you know, the first thing

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Speaker 3: that sparks in my mind is, well, here we go, government,

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Speaker 3: He's a great opportunity to see, if you'll ringleader legislation works.

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Speaker 3: You know. It also makes me think about why on

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Speaker 3: earth people are wanting to raise the age of criminal

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Speaker 3: responsibility to fourteen, you know, when we have eleven year

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Speaker 3: olds committing really serious offending that I mean, it's lucky

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Speaker 3: no one died, quite frankly, it's lucky there wasn't a

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Speaker 3: car accident, you know, And it's just horrific, you know,

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Speaker 3: and this continues to go on and on and on,

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Speaker 3: and the government continue to talk there to spin.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you think an eleven year old like

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Speaker 1: that can be rehabilitated?

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Speaker 3: Of course, of course, but not if there are no programs,

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Speaker 3: just a government like a puppet sprouting things that don't

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Speaker 3: really exist, aren't really making an impact.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: We have to be measuring the success of the programs

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Speaker 3: and then deciding whether or not they work, and if

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Speaker 3: they don't, find something else that will, and if they do,

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Speaker 3: then back them in even harder.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: But we can't just have all this policy set forget

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Speaker 3: about whether or not at works, so that we can

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Speaker 3: just walk around sprouting that we've got all these programs.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's just clearly not working because we

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Speaker 3: have more victims than ever before, more people in jail

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Speaker 3: than ever before, and more continuous offending.

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Speaker 2: So something's broken.

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Speaker 1: Leah Finocchiaro, we are going to have to leave it there.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much for coming in this morning. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk to you again soon.

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Speaker 2: Great to speak to everyone. Take care. Thank you,