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Speaker 1: Now we've been talking quite a bit in recent weeks

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Speaker 1: and months really about issues with youth crime from Alice

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Speaker 1: Springs to Karama and the rural area.

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Speaker 2: Now we all understand.

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Speaker 1: That there's no quick fix, but many of you have

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Speaker 1: been wondering exactly what the consequences are for youths who

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Speaker 1: break the law. Now joining me on the line is

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Speaker 1: the Minister for Territory Families, Kate Warden.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Now, Minister, firstly, I know you were in Alice Springs

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Speaker 1: last week. There's been quite a few concerns about the

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Speaker 1: issues in Alice. Who did you meet with while you

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Speaker 1: were there and how did it go?

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Speaker 3: So, yes, it was a really good trip, Katie. We

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Speaker 3: went down. I actually used the time to catch up

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Speaker 3: with a few of my other portfolio responsibilis as some

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Speaker 3: multicultural people and some sporting people as well. But in

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Speaker 3: aw we went out and we caught up again with

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Speaker 3: the people working in the youth justice area, went out

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Speaker 3: and had to look around and saw, you know, about

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Speaker 3: whether there was kids. I caught up with NT court

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Speaker 3: costs and also I caught up with some people and

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Speaker 3: the disability sector, so a whole range of people but

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Speaker 3: definitely had a focus there on the Youth Justice just

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Speaker 3: to see how touch base with them, see how effective

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Speaker 3: VIPER has been, and talk to some of the stakeholders

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Speaker 3: about their observations. Because we've recently opened up the Yario

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Speaker 3: after hours on a Friday and a Saturday night, so

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Speaker 3: we've seen good numbers coming through that, and we had

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Speaker 3: some of the media came through on Saturday night as

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Speaker 3: well and had a look at the work that our

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Speaker 3: Youth Justice officer doing there. Yes, so it was a

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Speaker 3: good trip.

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Speaker 2: Minister.

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Speaker 1: Are you looking at extending the hours of that drop

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Speaker 1: in center, the Youth Drop In Center or are you

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Speaker 1: satisfied at the moment just having it open those couple

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Speaker 1: of days for twenty four hours?

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Speaker 2: Is that the way it's currently working.

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Speaker 3: And Katie, we're already on the record as saying that

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Speaker 3: this is a trials We've trialed it for those two

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Speaker 3: nights to see if it actually would pick some of

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Speaker 3: those kids up, and it has pleasingly. But we've said

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Speaker 3: all along that we'll then expand it as of the

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Speaker 3: beginning of the school holidays, right the way through until

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Speaker 3: the end of the school holidays, and then we'll be

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Speaker 3: reviewing the program already got some really great feedback from

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Speaker 3: some of the staff there about the kids that they're

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Speaker 3: seeing coming through and the engagement they're being able to

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Speaker 3: have with them and then the subsequent engagement the following

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Speaker 3: day with their families. So that's already been a good thing.

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Speaker 3: And yes, we will be expanding that seven days a

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Speaker 3: week from the beginning of the school holidays.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so it is going to start from the beginning

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Speaker 1: of school holidays.

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Speaker 2: It will be seven days a week.

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Speaker 3: That's right. But obviously some of the staff feedback will

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Speaker 3: feed in how that model evolve, yep, and whether it continues.

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Speaker 3: So we've already talked to them. They see quite a

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Speaker 3: number of kids up until about midnight, is the early feedback,

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Speaker 3: and after that the numbers they constantly they taking the

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Speaker 3: kids home. So they are pairing up with Tanninger who

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Speaker 3: have buses that run around to all the youth camps. Actually,

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Speaker 3: that's the other thing I did. I went and had

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Speaker 3: to look at the two youth dropping centers, the ones

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Speaker 3: that were pre existing out of the Gap and Round Street,

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Speaker 3: and spoke to the staff there about whether numbers had

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Speaker 3: been impacted on Friday and Saturdays when we're opening those

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Speaker 3: that urio space, So that was really good. So they're

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Speaker 3: all partnering together to make sure those kids are safe,

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Speaker 3: taken to a safe place and engaging the next day

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Speaker 3: with family.

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Speaker 1: Minister, did you meet with general members of the public

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Speaker 1: as well while you're there to hear their concerns about

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Speaker 1: some of the issues that they've been experiencing.

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Speaker 3: No, Katie, I engaged regularly, often online with people that

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Speaker 3: are talking about crime and often the perception of crime,

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Speaker 3: And often they'll sort of a relude that that's always

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Speaker 3: in the youth space, which of course you and I

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Speaker 3: know it's not, but you know not in general, people

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Speaker 3: raised issues as you go along, you meet people, you know,

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Speaker 3: in between meetings and apt meetings, and certainly in the

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Speaker 3: multiculturals they didn't raise it with me, And in general

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Speaker 3: when I met with Congress, they felt that things had

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Speaker 3: really calmed down recently, which was was pleasing. The police

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Speaker 3: are saying the same thing, and certainly my observations indicated

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Speaker 3: there were less kids out and about during the evening.

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Speaker 2: All right, So no need to meet with the public.

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Speaker 3: Oh well, I haven't been asked to, Katie. You know me,

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Speaker 3: I'm happy to front up for and have a chat

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Speaker 3: with anybody that raises things with me. I often get

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Speaker 3: messages through the back end of Facebook or through a messenger,

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Speaker 3: and I'll always respond to those, but no nobody directly

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Speaker 3: raised it with me.

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Speaker 1: I just find it strange that you, the police Minister

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Speaker 1: and the Chief Minister were there and didn't sort of

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Speaker 1: think maybe we should have a bit of a meeting

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Speaker 1: with members of the public to see how they are

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Speaker 1: feeling well.

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Speaker 3: I think, in directly, Katie, we are catching up with people.

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Speaker 3: The people out of the multicultural community that I met with,

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Speaker 3: the people out of the sporting groups that I met with,

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Speaker 3: They're all people that live every day in other springs,

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Speaker 3: and they certainly didn't raise it directly with me. When

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Speaker 3: I was childing to the stakeholders, the people that work

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Speaker 3: in their offices, the people that come through there, it

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Speaker 3: certainly didn't get raised with me directly. I was out

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Speaker 3: during the evenings myself. I went down to some of

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Speaker 3: the night markets they've got there, the food stand. There

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Speaker 3: wasn't an extraordinary amount of people. I think things have

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Speaker 3: really calmed down in Alice Springs, and I think a

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Speaker 3: viper has done an amazing job down there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk through some of those some of those

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Speaker 1: numbers and what Viper's been doing, because I know that

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Speaker 1: some of that data was obtained by the Northern Territory News.

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Speaker 1: It showed there was two hundred and seventeen prosecution files

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Speaker 1: submitted since the strike force began operating on October fourteen.

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Speaker 1: Of those files, there were one hundred and twenty two

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Speaker 1: related to property offenses and one hundred and six were

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Speaker 1: submitted against youth offenders.

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Speaker 2: So how many youth offenders have been arrested.

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Speaker 3: Out of that number? Yeah, are you specifically talking about

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Speaker 3: the work of VIPER, because I don't have well, yeah,

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Speaker 3: particular number, Katie.

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Speaker 2: Well, what we are I guess I've got them.

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Speaker 1: I guess we're just struggling to sort of to break

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Speaker 1: down these figures and exactly what they mean. So maybe

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Speaker 1: if you give us, you know what you've got, Well,

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Speaker 1: if you're.

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Speaker 3: Talking about overall figure, so I can give you some

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Speaker 3: figures up around thirtieth of June, which is the reporting

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Speaker 3: time frame for us at the moment. Obviously, Viber has

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Speaker 3: its own set of statistics, and as you said, under

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Speaker 3: half of those were young people that were associated with

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Speaker 3: those prosecution files. It depends on the offense, Katie. It

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Speaker 3: would also defend really depend on whether that was a

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Speaker 3: first offense for that particular young offender, So it would

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Speaker 3: really relaying. It would be an individual case. Right, I

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Speaker 3: haven't had the statistics on how many. I certainly know

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Speaker 3: that kids are still going into our detention centers, kids

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Speaker 3: are still going onto the back on Track program. In fact,

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Speaker 3: I was discussing that with Congress down they had a

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Speaker 3: really good meeting with Congress around the back on Track

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Speaker 3: program they're running.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's try, let's try and break these figures down.

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Speaker 1: So if there was one hundred and six of those

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Speaker 1: were submitted against youth offenders comancution files, So what exactly

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Speaker 1: does that mean for the layman for us listening who

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Speaker 1: don't really understand what that means.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm not the police minister, and so I wouldn't

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Speaker 3: understand exactly what a prosecution file meant, except that I

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Speaker 3: would believe that it would be that child or that

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Speaker 3: young person has committed an offense and the police have

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Speaker 3: enough evidence against them. So in some cases, Katie, depending

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Speaker 3: exactly on what that offense is. So if it's an offense,

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Speaker 3: that's an offense that is not a good offense, then

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Speaker 3: those kids would be before the court and that they

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Speaker 3: would invariably be sent to the Alic Springs Youth Justice Center.

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Speaker 3: There's other kids that would be put on bail if

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Speaker 3: they had a bail condition, and often they'll go to

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Speaker 3: what we call Salt Bush in Other Springs, which is

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Speaker 3: where we've got youth justice officers working with them to

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Speaker 3: make sure that they meet their bowl conditions whilst they

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Speaker 3: were a waiting sentence. We've got kids in the Alic

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Speaker 3: Springs Youth Center and down don Dale here in Darwin

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Speaker 3: that are on remand and those that have been sentenced.

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Speaker 3: So there's a whole range of different things. A lot

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Speaker 3: of kids go on to the back on track, so

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Speaker 3: all those.

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Speaker 1: And I want to go into a bit more detail

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Speaker 1: about those different programs in a minute, but I'm just

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Speaker 1: trying to understand these numbers that have obviously been provided

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Speaker 1: to the NT News. So of the one hundred and

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Speaker 1: six prosecution files, do we know how many of those

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Speaker 1: young people were they arrested, have they been through the

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Speaker 1: court system, what exactly has happened to have been arrested?

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Speaker 3: Katie? On all of those You've got a file that

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Speaker 3: you're taking towards the court, you would have an arrest

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Speaker 3: for those kids. What happens to those kids is a

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Speaker 3: variety of things. Now, if the child is its first offense,

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Speaker 3: and it's a property offense, and I guess no harm

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Speaker 3: would have been I'm taking I'm sort of stepping outside

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Speaker 3: here a little bit, Katie, except that I think you

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Speaker 3: have to step this through. What the youth justice system

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Speaker 3: now does is if any kid, including our children and Katie, so,

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Speaker 3: if your child has fallen in with a group of

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Speaker 3: kids and has a first offense, if it's not a

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Speaker 3: highly severe offense, they'll be given the opportunity to go

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Speaker 3: through one of our back on track programs. Now, what

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Speaker 3: that is is about to help those kids that have

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Speaker 3: had a first brush with the law, to try and

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Speaker 3: make sure that's something I would want for my child.

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Speaker 3: I know that when my daughter was fifteen, my eldest daughter,

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Speaker 3: she was a little off the rails and fell in

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Speaker 3: with a group of kids that probably I would not

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Speaker 3: have picked for her as a parent. Now, I have

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Speaker 3: no idea if they did things that they were against

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Speaker 3: the law. But when your child does, what this system

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Speaker 3: offers him as an opportunity to turn around the direction

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Speaker 3: that they're heading and do better. Now, if that kid

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Speaker 3: then has done something worse than that, that young person,

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Speaker 3: then they will go before a court. And I see

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Speaker 3: those kids coming through our Youth Justice Center. So to

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Speaker 3: say there's no consequences, it's not true.

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Speaker 1: No, Well, I think what I'm trying to get to

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Speaker 1: is exactly what happens. So I understand that if it's

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Speaker 1: a first offense in the offense and so all right,

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Speaker 1: So of those one hundred and six prosecution files, do

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Speaker 1: we know how many of them have then gone through

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Speaker 1: one of those diversion programs.

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Speaker 3: Now, I can only tell you what the kids that

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Speaker 3: went through the system, not particularly out of that particular breakdown.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that was viper.

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Speaker 3: But the last financial year we had seventy eight young

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Speaker 3: people in the program for Back on Track. We had

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Speaker 3: another three hundred and nine young people in diversion programs,

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Speaker 3: and we had sixty seven kids in a youth work

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Speaker 3: and training camp. Now they're all different kids in three

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Speaker 3: different lots of programs that really would have related to

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Speaker 3: the offense. Now, the kids that did things that you

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Speaker 3: and I found would confined completely intolerable would also be

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Speaker 3: in the youth justice system. So we have got for

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Speaker 3: that last financial year, yep, we had one hundred and

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Speaker 3: thirty eight young people go into our youth detention.

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Speaker 1: All right, Now, of those numbers that you've just given us,

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Speaker 1: how many of those young people reoffend it So.

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Speaker 3: If the ones that went into use detention, any.

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Speaker 2: Of those programs in the world.

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Speaker 3: That went into use detention, sixty eight of those, which

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Speaker 3: is fifty six percent, only had one they didn't go

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Speaker 3: back into the system.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so sixty eight percent.

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Speaker 3: I don't have the figures in terms of overall the

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Speaker 3: number of young people that didn't go didn't repeat. I

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Speaker 3: know that with the Back on Track anecdotally, we're hearing

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Speaker 3: over eighty percent of those kids that go onto the

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Speaker 3: Back on Track program don't reoffend within six months. Now,

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Speaker 3: remembering Katie, we need to analyze this as we go. Yep.

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Speaker 2: Now, what about some time borrow?

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Speaker 1: So what about some of those other programs we've heard

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Speaker 1: about Salt Bush. We've also heard about seventy Meuse Station

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Speaker 1: I believe it's called.

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Speaker 3: And so I'll give you the example of the the

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Speaker 3: youth justice conferencing the restorative justice that happens down in

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Speaker 3: Alice Springs with the Jesuits. So I've caught up with them.

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Speaker 3: They're telling me that over eighty five percent of the

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Speaker 3: kids that go through with them on a ten week

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Speaker 3: program do not reoffend.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and then what about so how many kids actually

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Speaker 1: did that?

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Speaker 2: How many kids did that?

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Speaker 3: Sixty eight in the last financially so one.

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Speaker 2: Hundred and sixty eight of them that last financial year.

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Speaker 3: Later out, Katie, No, well, I'm.

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Speaker 1: Just trying to work out so of that what you're

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Speaker 1: telling me, they're really good reoffend.

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Speaker 3: What to be really good? If you spoke to someone

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Speaker 3: like John Adams with the Jesuit, he would be able

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Speaker 3: to tell you those figures and how many kids that

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Speaker 3: they're seeing for I've had an increased number of them

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Speaker 3: through recently through Operation Viper, all right, and they're having

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Speaker 3: some really good It's a ten week program where those

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Speaker 3: kids get faced with the consequences of what their actions

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Speaker 3: have done.

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Speaker 1: They have it's not actually you don't actually have to

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Speaker 1: do it.

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Speaker 3: Do you? So no, so we're moving to try and

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Speaker 3: change that. But if you don't do these things, Katie,

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Speaker 3: if you don't, you go before the court, and the

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Speaker 3: court give you a sentence. They're your alternatives.

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Speaker 2: And so what is the sentence? What would the alternatives.

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Speaker 3: Then be willing to do this thing? There's nothing for you,

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Speaker 3: So what.

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Speaker 2: Would the what would the alternatives then.

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Speaker 3: Be in front of the court? And then you go

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Speaker 3: into youth justice system.

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Speaker 1: And would that be one of those programs or would

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Speaker 1: it be going into a youth detention center.

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Speaker 2: I'm just trying to ask, like I'm actually trying to work.

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Speaker 3: It out, Katie. That's up to the court.

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Speaker 2: So what are their options is what I'm trying to ask, Minister.

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Speaker 2: What are the options is what I'm trying to ask.

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Speaker 1: If if they don't do the youth conferencing and then

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Speaker 1: if they're not going into jail, what I'm asking is,

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Speaker 1: what are those other options? Is it salt Bush and

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Speaker 1: is it seven EMU station.

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Speaker 3: I'll flatten out the system for you. So your child

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Speaker 3: has let's say your son has been not saying your son,

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Speaker 3: but you know one of our kids has undertaken some

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Speaker 3: first defense property offenses. They will go the police will

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Speaker 3: offer them diversion. The police have that that's one of

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Speaker 3: the changes. We offer options. So they could go into

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Speaker 3: youth conferencing, they could go on a back on Track program,

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Speaker 3: which means they get a service provider that works with

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Speaker 3: them to get them back on track. Or they could

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Speaker 3: go into a youth diversion program, which means they might

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Speaker 3: end up out on a work camp. Those sorts of

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Speaker 3: options are offered. If the child then says I don't

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Speaker 3: want to do all of that, then the police will

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Speaker 3: go to that matter will go to court, and then

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Speaker 3: it's up to the court to sentence them. Now they

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Speaker 3: may sentence them, they may again sentence them and give

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Speaker 3: an order against them to go into one of those programs,

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Speaker 3: or they may make an order that they go into

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Speaker 3: the detention system. It's up to the court then about

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Speaker 3: where they send them.

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Speaker 1: And you're confident that the courts have got enough options.

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Speaker 3: The courts have got lots of options. Of course, Katie.

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Speaker 3: If it's a bad offense, an offense that you know,

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Speaker 3: we don't the society doesn't have any tolerance for, then

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Speaker 3: those kids go into the youth Justice Center and in

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Speaker 3: there we give them wrap around programs to try and

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Speaker 3: change their lives.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now we've spoken a lot about you, so are

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Speaker 1: maybe first time offenders and this is the first time

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Speaker 1: that they've done something wrong. But the real concern within

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Speaker 1: the community is that we've got those RECIDIVIS defenders, those

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Speaker 1: that have done the wrong thing more than once, and

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Speaker 1: the perception is that they're getting a slap.

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Speaker 2: On the wrist. I mean, not true, Katie.

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Speaker 1: So talk us through what happens with those young people

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Speaker 1: who breach their bail and who are.

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Speaker 2: Doing the wrong thing well more than once.

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Speaker 3: 's talk you through the breach of bail if you like.

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Speaker 3: Let's start there. So, if you've got a kid that

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Speaker 3: has breached their bail, we have the option of salt Bush,

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Speaker 3: which is bail accommodation where those kids can get monitored

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Speaker 3: twenty four to seven. If they don't do that and

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Speaker 3: they're out and they breach their bail, they'll be picked

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Speaker 3: up on bail and the police have an option. The

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Speaker 3: police have an option to actually charge them with breach

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Speaker 3: of bail. They've still got that option, or they then

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Speaker 3: will get charged straight away for the offense that they're

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Speaker 3: on bail for. So the old system, Katie, was that

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Speaker 3: let's say you were out on bail and you breached

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Speaker 3: bail as a young person, we actually then have to

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Speaker 3: prosecute you for that breach of bail. Now, if you've

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Speaker 3: done that, then the police have to prosecute you for

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Speaker 3: the breach of bail before they actually prosecute you for

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Speaker 3: the matter that you're being held on bail. Four.

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Speaker 2: So you're telling us it's a good thing. So is it?

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Speaker 3: Lots of layers And now they've stripped back the layers

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Speaker 3: and said, Okay, we might not prosecute you for the

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Speaker 3: bail because we want to actually prosecute you for the

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Speaker 3: matter you're actually on bail. Four. It's really important work.

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Speaker 1: So are you So are you saying that the police

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Speaker 1: wanted this, that it's easier for them.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, they saw that the system was held up with

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Speaker 3: prosecution files and prosecution files for bail when all they

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Speaker 3: wanted to do was get to the actual matter that

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Speaker 3: they'd arrested that person four. So it's just simpler. The

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Speaker 3: police can still prosecute you for breach of bail, so

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Speaker 3: the system now allows them not to, so that they

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Speaker 3: can actually be prosecuted for the original matter that they

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Speaker 3: were actually arrested for.

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Speaker 1: I'm a bit confused because then my understanding was that

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Speaker 1: the Police Association last week was calling for for these

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Speaker 1: breach of bail conditions to be you know, to be

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Speaker 1: changed back so that there isn't that presumption in favor

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Speaker 1: of bail for repeat youth offenders.

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Speaker 3: That is not my understanding, Katie. I'm my understanding is

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Speaker 3: that when these changes were made, the police were extremely

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Speaker 3: supportive because they are constantly having to do paperwork for

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Speaker 3: breach of bail, which then held up the original prosecution.

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Speaker 3: They can still they can still get someone for a

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Speaker 3: breach of bail. It's still in the legislation. They just

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Speaker 3: have the option not to. All right, we're going to

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Speaker 3: have to move along important distinction. I think there's been

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Speaker 3: some confusion over it. Well, it needs so that's the

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Speaker 3: bail stuff, Katie.

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Speaker 2: You if we're going to have to.

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Speaker 1: Move along very quickly, Kate, because I do just want

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Speaker 1: to ask you about housing very quickly. It's something else

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Speaker 1: that people are bringing up with us very regularly now

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Speaker 1: in terms of public housing. We've had a number of

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Speaker 1: messages even this morning coming through, people asking really what

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Speaker 1: the red card system is or what is deemed as

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Speaker 1: unacceptable behavior. We've had a number of people message through

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Speaker 1: and say that they've got antisocial behavior, people screaming and yelling,

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Speaker 1: fighting into the hours of the night, that really nothing

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Speaker 1: seems to ever change in those public housing residences.

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Speaker 2: What is the what's the rules here, Kate?

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Speaker 3: Okay, so you're talking about my pet project, my pet

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Speaker 3: to subject here, Katie, because before I got elected, this

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Speaker 3: is exactly the work that I did in the Department

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Speaker 3: of Housing. The red card policy is a policy where

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Speaker 3: a if there's a if someone is conducting antisocial behavior,

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Speaker 3: then that person can get a red flag put against them.

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Speaker 3: They can have up to six and then the department

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Speaker 3: can consider termination. It's all under the residential in fact

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Speaker 3: that's under the Housing Act, but under the Residential Tenancies

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Speaker 3: Act then they can be taken to court and the

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Speaker 3: tenancy terminated. That so there's a fliding scale in terms

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Speaker 3: of anti social behavior, Katie. I would I would tell

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Speaker 3: you that right now across with Housing, as it was

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Speaker 3: when I was in Department of Housing, we actually have

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Speaker 3: a visitor problem more than a tenant problem.

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Speaker 1: So how do you fix that for people that are

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Speaker 1: living nearby?

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Speaker 3: So how we fix that is making sure that antisocial

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Speaker 3: behavior is reported consistently both two police and the department,

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Speaker 3: and then we can take action. If we then can

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Speaker 3: often put support around the person so that they can

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Speaker 3: manage their visitors better. But if all that breaks down,

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Speaker 3: the department can take those people to court and attempt

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Speaker 3: to terminate the tenancy.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like it'd be a bit of a nightmare

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Speaker 1: if you were living close by to a home where

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Speaker 1: there is constant bad behavior, considering the fact that they've

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Speaker 1: got six chances to get it right.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's not six chances, Katie. What it is is

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Speaker 3: it's a sliding scale. So if you've got a really

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Speaker 3: bad breach, then you could actually get up to three

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Speaker 3: flags in the one hit. So if it's you standing

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Speaker 3: out the front and having a go at your neighbor

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Speaker 3: and it's substantiated, and you might get one. If you have,

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Speaker 3: you know, a big unacceptable behavior outbreak at the property,

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Speaker 3: that could be three. This is why we have public

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Speaker 3: housing safety offices. They go out, they talk to the tenants.

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Speaker 3: They also talk to the neighbors about how you can

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Speaker 3: get this stuff reported. So if there's some you know,

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Speaker 3: so if it's violent behavior, that can attribute three red

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Speaker 3: flags in one go. All of the policy is about

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Speaker 3: the department through public Housing Safety officers looks at the offense,

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Speaker 3: They go by the reports, they do investigations to make

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Speaker 3: sure that you know the tenants. The tenant is aware

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Speaker 3: of the complaints against them and then they take action.

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Speaker 3: I can tell you, as the Minister for Housing, we

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Speaker 3: take action. So I see that. You know I'm the

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Speaker 3: pature on the weekend.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm not only alluding to that. I've also been

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Speaker 1: contacted about one in Karama. I've got one here about

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Speaker 1: somebody in Molden.

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Speaker 2: And another one supporting consistent minister.

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Speaker 1: And that's where I think people are feeling really disheart button.

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Speaker 3: Well, No, I can say that I see them come

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Speaker 3: through my office. Those reports do come through here. I

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Speaker 3: saw them when I was working there. They do take action,

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Speaker 3: But Katie, I can What I can tell you is

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Speaker 3: it's not as simple as having six red cards and evicting.

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Speaker 3: So they're the tenant, then we'll probably get themselves legal

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Speaker 3: support and then that becomes a court matter. And often

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Speaker 3: because housing is the last place that people have house,

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Speaker 3: then the court often has reluctance in evicting people. But

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Speaker 3: we do work with people to either move them into

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Speaker 3: another tenancy and then also put them on an acceptable

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Speaker 3: behavior agreement which is easier to terminate. So the whole

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Speaker 3: range of for actions the Department can take. All I

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Speaker 3: will say to your listeners is please report it, report

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Speaker 3: it consistently both to the police and the department, and

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Speaker 3: make sure that we can get on top of those

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Speaker 3: tenancies early.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna have to wrap up. I'm sorry, minister, we

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Speaker 1: are going to have to wrap up. We really appreciate

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Speaker 1: your time this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having a.

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Speaker 3: Chat with us so much to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: I know we do. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: That is the Minister for Territory, Families and Housing. There

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Speaker 1: Kate Warden