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Speaker 1: I first heard Rihanna Brown speak at an AFL Players

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Speaker 1: Association leadership conference and she spoke about some of the

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Speaker 1: trends that she's seen around the future of women's sport, concussion,

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Speaker 1: mental health, and sport. And after she spoke, I made

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Speaker 1: a b line for her and said, I would love

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Speaker 1: to get you on the podcast. So it's been an

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Speaker 1: incredible chance to sit down and pick Rihanna's brain and

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Speaker 1: learn more from an incredibly intelligent person. She's an academically

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Speaker 1: trained and practicing futurist. I'll let her explain to you

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Speaker 1: what a futurist is and what they do. And she's

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Speaker 1: also been an incredible career in cricket. She's got a

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Speaker 1: background as an elite cricketer, working as both an athlete

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Speaker 1: coach and game development administrator. This was an incredible chance

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Speaker 1: to sit down with Rihanna and really challenge some of

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Speaker 1: the assumptions that people have had held onto about women

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Speaker 1: in sport and how that often shapes the decisions that

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Speaker 1: are made moving into the future. I hope you enjoy

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Speaker 1: this one. Rihanna Brown, Welcome to the Female Athlete Project.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward to this chat. I got to

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Speaker 1: hear you speak at a recent AFL Players Association Delegates

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Speaker 1: conference about the future and being a futurist. But before

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Speaker 1: we get into that, can you give us a bit

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Speaker 1: of a background. You've got quite an impressive sporting resume.

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Speaker 1: Can you give us a bit of a background, take

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Speaker 1: us back to your childhood and we were talking earlier

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Speaker 1: off air about your long travels to pursue this career.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if it's that impressive as a sporting background,

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Speaker 2: particularly in the company I keep right now and all

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Speaker 2: of the other athletes are around my partners a former athlete,

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Speaker 2: our friends are. But yeah, I grew up in a

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Speaker 2: regional part of Queensland. Sport was like the heart of communities.

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Speaker 2: I think it still is. Actually a random side fact

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Speaker 2: that when local sport declines it's a lead indicator of

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Speaker 2: declining community. Wow, which is really interesting. But yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: part of that thing of growing up regionally where you

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Speaker 2: just play any sport you can. I played, I think.

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Speaker 2: I mean, my dad was a jockey, my brother was

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Speaker 2: a jockey, my sister in law was a jockey. So

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Speaker 2: horse riding was the first sport in our house. But

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Speaker 2: besides that I was very keen on NRL because it's

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Speaker 2: just what you do in Queensland. But you know the

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Speaker 2: early story of you hit ten years old or eleven

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Speaker 2: years old and you can't play anymore. So I played

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Speaker 2: a whole bunch of any sport that I could play.

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Speaker 2: I played. It was cricket, it was softball, it was

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Speaker 2: strangely netball. I think I hit my peak in about

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Speaker 2: year six with netball. Unfortunately, it was touch, footy, soccer, gosh,

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Speaker 2: anything that I think was in front of me we played.

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Speaker 2: But given that we were in a remote part of Queensland.

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Speaker 2: Our local region included Mount Eiser, which was six hours away,

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Speaker 2: so it wasn't uncommon to be, you know, every weekend

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Speaker 2: driving a minimum of six hours just for your kind

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Speaker 2: of seeming local competitions before we went to state titles.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, very different experience of sport. But for me,

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Speaker 2: sport is the glue of regional Queensland. As I mentioned before,

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Speaker 2: the glue of society. It's such an integral part of

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Speaker 2: a healthy society. And for me it offered really incredible

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Speaker 2: pathways that you don't get outside of being able to

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Speaker 2: place bored. And you know, I was exposed to going

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Speaker 2: to Brisbane very early in my life, like six or

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Speaker 2: seven times a year. Going to Brisbane for different sports

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Speaker 2: was an expensive endeavor of for my family, but it

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Speaker 2: becomes a brilliant pathway and exposure to a whole new

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Speaker 2: world outside of your little remote town.

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Speaker 1: Was there pressure for you to follow in the footsteps

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Speaker 1: to become a jockey.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think Dad said to me once it's the

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Speaker 2: biggest disappointment that I wasn't the jockey and my brother

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Speaker 2: was because he stopped writing. Maybe it was about fifteen

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Speaker 2: or sixteen because he just got too big and I'm

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Speaker 2: still probably small enough to almost make the weight. But

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Speaker 2: I decided, probably as I got to my teens, you

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Speaker 2: have to start making a bit.

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Speaker 1: Of a call.

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Speaker 2: Some sports are ruled out, like NRL, though I have

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Speaker 2: unfinished dreams and business of being a halfback for the Roosters,

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Speaker 2: who I supported at the time. But yeah, then I

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Speaker 2: started to play a lot more cricket as I got

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Speaker 2: to my early teens and exposed to early pathways with Queensland.

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Speaker 2: I think I played my first under nineteens Queensland tournament

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Speaker 2: when I was twelve. Oh wow, Yeah, but I didn't

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Speaker 2: even I didn't have a pair of spikes. I didn't.

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Speaker 2: I'm not even sure if I had any other cricket

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Speaker 2: equipment other than a bat, but it never played on

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Speaker 2: a turf wicket or anything like that. We didn't have

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Speaker 2: a coach, was like the groundsman at the time that

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Speaker 2: would just throw balls to you.

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Speaker 1: Great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, not great, but great. Yeah, that's great sports the pathway.

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Speaker 1: Yes it is, Yes, it is. Wow and you had

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Speaker 1: you also had some national representation thrown in there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So I played state cricket from like twelve right

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Speaker 2: up until senior women's cricket. Queensland spent some time in

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Speaker 2: the UK playing county cricket there, some time playing with

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Speaker 2: the I think I call them like the Shooting Stars,

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Speaker 2: like the under twenty threes ossie team for a while

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Speaker 2: and then in the off season I used to play

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Speaker 2: the sport that I actually loved the most, which was

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Speaker 2: Gaelic footy. So to keep fit, a lot of cricketers

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Speaker 2: would play Gaelic footy. Ah, and it was a sport

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Speaker 2: that was really thriving in Brisbane at the time. There

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Speaker 2: was two divisions for women, which was amazing. I think

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Speaker 2: it was a lot more dominant than the AFLW was

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Speaker 2: back then, so it was really thriving. I don't know

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Speaker 2: what was going on at the time, but there was

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Speaker 2: a lot of kind of Irish people living in Brisbane

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Speaker 2: and the league was huge. So I played that in

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Speaker 2: the off season and really got into that as a sport.

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Speaker 2: It was awesome.

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Speaker 1: Is that Do you know if it's still thriving in Brisbane?

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Speaker 2: It's good question. I don't know. I would suspect there's

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Speaker 2: still a competition. There's also a big competition there was

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Speaker 2: in Melbourne as well. It's kind of everywhere. When I

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Speaker 2: lived in the UK playing county cricket, I managed to

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Speaker 2: play a few games in the London League there as well,

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Speaker 2: so it is everywhere. I don't know where the growth

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Speaker 2: of the game is at now, but it's a brilliant sport.

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Speaker 2: I always wonder though, if if AFLW had been as

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Speaker 2: dominant as it is now as the primary sport, whether

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Speaker 2: I would have got into that. But I definitely loved

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Speaker 2: the shift from a game that went for seven or

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Speaker 2: eight hours to a game that was kind of over

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Speaker 2: in forty five minutes.

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Speaker 1: It's a long time. Yeah, it's a long day.

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Speaker 2: It is.

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Speaker 1: It's a long day. Let's jump into the juicy stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm so keen to unpack some of this. Can you

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Speaker 1: tell me what is a futurist?

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Speaker 2: Sounds like a made up term.

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Speaker 1: I had never heard of it prior to hearing you speak.

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Speaker 2: Okay, some people have. I think these days a lot

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Speaker 2: of people confuse it with I mean, it's historical roots.

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Speaker 2: Is kind of the image of the clairvoyant, which is

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Speaker 2: just absolutely not what we do. I describe myself as

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Speaker 2: an academically trained and practicing futurist, so I'm studied a

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Speaker 2: master in this, studied both in Australia and in the UK.

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Speaker 2: Part of the work, I guess, is less about what

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Speaker 2: we think it is, which is predictions, trying to get

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Speaker 2: the future right. And I think the work of the

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Speaker 2: futurists is for me at least, more about conversations about change.

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Speaker 2: It's about, you know, how do we actually think differently

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Speaker 2: about change? How do we anticipate change? What have we

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Speaker 2: assumed about the changes that might happen in the future.

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Speaker 2: When we talk about the future of any topic, we

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Speaker 2: really only have two data points. So we've got data

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Speaker 2: about all the stuff that's happened in the past. Let's

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Speaker 2: say about sport, We've got data about the things that

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Speaker 2: have happened in the past around sport. We've got data

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Speaker 2: about what's happening today around sport, but we don't have

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Speaker 2: data on the future because the future hasn't happened, so

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Speaker 2: we've only got data and most people in the future

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Speaker 2: space will do work around that. It's like trends, right,

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Speaker 2: we talk about trends, what's happening in sport. The other

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Speaker 2: bit of data that we have around the future is

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Speaker 2: our ideas and images. What do we think the future

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Speaker 2: of sport will be like? And those two data points,

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Speaker 2: I guess are the two key things that I do

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Speaker 2: work around talking about what's changing, what has changed over time,

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Speaker 2: but also talking about what do we want to change.

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Speaker 2: What are we imagining when we're thinking about sport. What

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Speaker 2: are those ideas and images that shape how we act today?

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Speaker 2: And that's kind of the neat space I guess of

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Speaker 2: working around those two data points with people and helping

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Speaker 2: them step away, ask questions about change, think about what

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Speaker 2: they want to change, and then acting, You know, how

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Speaker 2: do we move from where we are today to where

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Speaker 2: we want to be in the future.

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Speaker 1: One of my favorite takeaways from hearing you speak was

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Speaker 1: this principle and this idea of when you change how

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Speaker 1: you think about the future, you change how you act

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Speaker 1: in the present. Can you tell us what you mean

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Speaker 1: by that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I kind of got to this point after about

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Speaker 2: ten years in this space, and I used to think,

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Speaker 2: if only I can come in and tell people about

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Speaker 2: the trends of what's happening, that they might do something different.

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Speaker 2: But no one does. You know, I don't think data

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Speaker 2: really changes minds anymore. So what I worked out is

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Speaker 2: to do good futures work is to really get people

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Speaker 2: to challenge how they think about the future in the

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Speaker 2: first place. So we have a lot of assumptions about

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Speaker 2: what the future is and how it happens, and they

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Speaker 2: shape our views about action in the present. So a

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Speaker 2: really good one is that you know that we think

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Speaker 2: that the future is something that's out there and down

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Speaker 2: the track, like the future of women's sport is in

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Speaker 2: ten years time, but the future never arrives because we're

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Speaker 2: always in the present, right.

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Speaker 1: So that's so so kind of weird to get your

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Speaker 1: head around here.

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Speaker 2: I know it took me ten years to even understand

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Speaker 2: that concept. But this whole sense that if we think

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Speaker 2: the future is out there and down the track. Then

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Speaker 2: we start to plan with that in mind. When I

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Speaker 2: used to work in cricket very early on and we're

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Speaker 2: talking about the future of women's cricket, for instance, we'd

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Speaker 2: often speak about it as something that would eventually kind

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Speaker 2: of arise, but we never get there. So the future

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Speaker 2: is shaped by our actions and our inaction in the

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Speaker 2: present because all the things we don't do shapes that.

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Speaker 2: So that's one way of kind of flipping our assumptions

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Speaker 2: and how we think about the future shapes our actions.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: People say, oh, it's a long term thing, but we

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Speaker 2: never get to that because we never get to the

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Speaker 2: long term. We're always in the present. The other thing, too,

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Speaker 2: I think, is a couple of key assumptions that shape

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Speaker 2: how we think about the future, which shapes how we

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Speaker 2: think about action, is that the future of anything, let's

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Speaker 2: say again sport, it doesn't exist. So Professor Jim Dat

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Speaker 2: uses the quote in the line that there are no

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Speaker 2: future facts because the future doesn't exist. It hasn't happened yet.

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Speaker 2: And when we think about that and step back, it's

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Speaker 2: just what The way that we think about action is

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Speaker 2: usually based on a sense that the future is predicted

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Speaker 2: or noble that there there are facts when we're talking

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Speaker 2: about the future, let's say of women's sport. If the

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Speaker 2: future doesn't exist, what we're actually talking about is just

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Speaker 2: our ideas and images because it hasn't happened yet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, do you get pushback and questioning from people? How

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Speaker 1: often are people willing to accept that verse kind of

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Speaker 1: defaulting to those assumptions of its long term it'll eventually happen.

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Speaker 2: I think that's where I position my work is to

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Speaker 2: actually I talk about the acupuncture point is to just

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Speaker 2: go and blow open all of the assumptions. People usually

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Speaker 2: get that and they're like, whoa, the future never arrives.

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Speaker 2: We're always in the presence. So everything I don't do

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Speaker 2: influences my future. It's when we go to act, we

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Speaker 2: tend to go back to our default behaviors of how

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Speaker 2: we've done things before. So it's actually supporting people to

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Speaker 2: act differently. But the other assumptions I think that are

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Speaker 2: really important to think about is that I always talk

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Speaker 2: about this idea that the future is likely to arrive

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Speaker 2: via things that we consider to be ridiculous at first.

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Speaker 2: So the best way to understand that because people are

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Speaker 2: like always say to me, Oh, that will never happen.

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Speaker 2: I love listening out for this. I'll say that will

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Speaker 2: never happen. And then they say, oh, but that's an

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Speaker 2: American sport thing, you know, that's.

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Speaker 1: Not relevant to us, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Or it's not relevant to football or whatever it may be.

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Speaker 2: And then they say, oh, that's normal's We've always been

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Speaker 2: doing it. Athletes have always been, you know, advocating for things.

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Speaker 2: We've always been, you know, talking about mental health and

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Speaker 2: sport and how it's important. We haven't, for instance. So

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Speaker 2: when I talk to people, I get them to think

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Speaker 2: about the future, and I get them to challenge what

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Speaker 2: we think might be ridiculous. And the best way to

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Speaker 2: unders down that as kind of looking at the past.

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Speaker 2: And we've spent heaps of time talking about this, but

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Speaker 2: when we think about the past of sport, or like

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Speaker 2: the past of footy, we look back and some of

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Speaker 2: it seems absurd. Now. I laugh with my friends all

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Speaker 2: the time that anytime we would get any media, it

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Speaker 2: used to be the headline would be like, you know,

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Speaker 2: sister of a jockey makes the Queensland team for blah,

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Speaker 2: or my friend had her brother was a really good

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Speaker 2: NRL player. It was always like the article was always

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Speaker 2: about him, and then somehow she was mentioned as a

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Speaker 2: kind of subsequent thought. Yeah, but I mean that's one

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Speaker 2: version of how this sport was ridiculous. I don't know

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Speaker 2: the things that you can think of where you think

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Speaker 2: I just can't believe that we used to do that

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Speaker 2: in sport.

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Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I'm sure there'd be plenty. What Oh, I

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Speaker 1: should be able to think of one off the top

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Speaker 1: of my head.

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Speaker 2: We used to like watch the old footage of you

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Speaker 2: know that, like drinking beers at lunch or like that.

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Speaker 1: They're yeah, smoker, like a cigarette out of time exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Or and again it's it can be like objective

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Speaker 2: things like wearing colots playing cricket. Oh yeah, yeah, that

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Speaker 2: was kind of outrageous. Firstly, they didn't fit anyone, so

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Speaker 2: they were never fully done up because I think they

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Speaker 2: were like designed for women in the nineteen thirties or

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Speaker 2: something with like tiny waists. But secondly, I think I

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Speaker 2: still have scars on my knees, either from like long

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Speaker 2: term sunburn or just grazing from how impractical they were.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to imagine that you'd even contemplate wearing those

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Speaker 2: types of uniforms.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like we called we had scungies in New South

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Speaker 1: Wales skungies. I think all the states have different words,

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Speaker 1: like pretty much undies over your undies.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah, I think we call them runners, yeah

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Speaker 2: right yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: And like I was in primary school wearing like this

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Speaker 1: time and my school uniform. I had a white T

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Speaker 1: shirt and these red skunjies and it was like, what

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Speaker 1: why am I running around in my underwear? Like what's

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Speaker 1: going on here? Doing high jump and long jump? Like

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Speaker 1: what a ridiculous thing that was.

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Speaker 2: My I think my mum's generation to use your term,

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Speaker 2: because it's a very vivid term. They also played like

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Speaker 2: adult was like touch football or something in skunjies.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: I think my partner took about her mum playing basketball

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Speaker 2: in skunjies as well. I can't say skunchies. I have

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Speaker 2: to say runners.

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Speaker 1: The more that we say it, I'm like, is that

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Speaker 1: definitely the word? If I got the word wrong, I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty sure they were called that. I'm going to look

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Speaker 1: it up after this and I'll make sure I edit

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Speaker 1: it out if I got wrong.

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Speaker 2: I think some people would say bummers. I think we

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Speaker 2: used to say rummers, but either way like just outrageous outrage.

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Speaker 2: I don't know no way that I mentioned they would

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Speaker 2: be as wide scale as like a standard uniform, not

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Speaker 2: for like supreme elite athletes to where the body, So

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about just a standard like community level uniform.

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Speaker 2: So those types of things we look back on like

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Speaker 2: that's so ridiculous. But it's not just the things that

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Speaker 2: we can see or the technology, it's also kind of

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Speaker 2: our beliefs about things have really shifted over time. I mean,

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Speaker 2: attitudes towards women in sport is a very good example

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Speaker 2: of Gosh, when I was playing sport very early on,

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Speaker 2: how radically different some of those attitudes are now, and

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Speaker 2: just the the kind of appreciation of the skill and

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Speaker 2: the professionalism that just absolutely wasn't around, And it's hard

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Speaker 2: to imagine that as a very dominant state still exists,

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Speaker 2: but as a dominant belief system and narrative. So thinking

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Speaker 2: about you know, the only time that makes sense for

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Speaker 2: us in sport or whatever topic is the present, because

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Speaker 2: we look back it seems ridiculous. So the whole premises

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Speaker 2: that the future of sport is likely to to appear

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Speaker 2: ridiculous to us today. So what are some of those

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Speaker 2: things that are like, we just can't believe that happening.

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Speaker 2: If I was sitting there in the work that I

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Speaker 2: was doing in cricket game development many many years ago,

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Speaker 2: like decades ago, the notion that I would be at

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Speaker 2: a game of women's cricket only not a curtain raiser

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Speaker 2: with my teenage nephew who is there by choice for

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Speaker 2: his birthday, with eighty five thousand people packed out the MCG,

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Speaker 2: people would have said that is absurd, like, there's just

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Speaker 2: no way that we can see that ever happening. And

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Speaker 2: part of it's important to unpack because our what we

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Speaker 2: consider to be possible shapes action, you know, So back then,

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Speaker 2: no one was planning or thinking about filling the MCG

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Speaker 2: because we didn't think that that was possible. So part

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Speaker 2: of good Future's work, I think, is how do we

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Speaker 2: challenge what we think is possible? How do we push

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Speaker 2: the edges, how do we show evidence where things could

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Speaker 2: be very different in the future. How do we challenge

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Speaker 2: what I say, like our range of thinkable futures. And

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Speaker 2: remember the future hasn't happened, so it's really important to

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Speaker 2: have those discussions. And now how does that influence how

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Speaker 2: we act in the present. If we have a narrow

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Speaker 2: view of the future, our actions will be very narrow

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Speaker 2: in the present.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting, this idea of if you don't

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Speaker 1: think that it's possible, you think it's ridiculous, why would

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Speaker 1: you try and work towards it, because you yourself don't

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Speaker 1: believe you could ever get there, So it would feel

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Speaker 1: like wasted energy to work towards that.

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Speaker 2: Exactly exactly right. And I kind of think part of

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Speaker 2: the work I always talk about this idea of the

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Speaker 2: politics of the future. So if the future is really

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Speaker 2: just our ideas and images of a time later than now,

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Speaker 2: because there hasn't happened yet, right, then who is shaping

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Speaker 2: the story and the narrative and the conversation about the future.

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Speaker 2: And ab Jane has this lovely quote that she says,

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Speaker 2: those with the least power to shape the future suffer

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Speaker 2: its worse consequences. So who is in the room when

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Speaker 2: we're talking about the future of sport, the future of

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Speaker 2: women's sport, Who isn't in the room? Who has the

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Speaker 2: loudest voice? Because we shape our images of the future

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Speaker 2: of the game or women's sport, and then thereafter they

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Speaker 2: shape us in the present.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's a really powerful conversation that we

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Speaker 2: need to have now is what is our preferred future?

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Speaker 2: What do we want to see more of? How can

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Speaker 2: we be more imaginative? How you know, what are we

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Speaker 2: narrowing in on? Where are there possibilities that we're not seeing?

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Speaker 2: And now how does that influence action in the present.

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Speaker 1: And there's discussion around obviously at t fact we do

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Speaker 1: a lot of work in the athlete space, but there's

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Speaker 1: so much room for improvement in officiating, coaching at executive

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Speaker 1: level even just what you touched on there about who

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Speaker 1: is sitting in those rooms. Those are the people that

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Speaker 1: have the power to shape the future. It's really it

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Speaker 1: kind of like hits you a little bit when you

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Speaker 1: could it like that, because it's true and the people

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Speaker 1: who aren't in those rooms don't have that power. So

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Speaker 1: when we talk about diversity quotas and things like that,

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Speaker 1: it's not just to tick a box. It's because they

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Speaker 1: have so much power that people who sit in those rooms.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and their assumptions and ideas and images about the

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Speaker 2: future influence those decisions. And if those assumptions aren't challenged,

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Speaker 2: if those assumptions are narrow, if those are assumptions about

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Speaker 2: the future of how things have happened in the past,

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Speaker 2: then they will project a future that is more of

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Speaker 2: the same. If we were sitting around twenty years ago

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Speaker 2: talking about, you know, the future of women's sport and

395
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Speaker 2: not having the conversation that was broader than how can

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Speaker 2: we increase participation a bit more, we never would be

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Speaker 2: where we are today. And I think part of that

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Speaker 2: work is how do we blow open those conversations and

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Speaker 2: remember it's I think uncertainties less about what we want

400
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Speaker 2: to happen, because part of the conversation about the future

401
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Speaker 2: is This work isn't just about trying to get the

402
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Speaker 2: future right.

403
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Speaker 1: You know.

404
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Speaker 2: People always say to me, oh, what are the trends?

405
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Speaker 2: How can we predict the trends? And I say, like,

406
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Speaker 2: that's interesting, But that assumes that the future happens to

407
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Speaker 2: you and that you don't have any influence or agency

408
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Speaker 2: over the future. Remember it hasn't happened yet, so we

409
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Speaker 2: do have agency to you know, an influence to shape things.

410
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Speaker 2: We do have influence to shape what is possible. The

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Speaker 2: Matilda is such a good example of actually with in

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Speaker 2: concrete ways, I guess showing and expanding our visions of

413
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Speaker 2: what is possible for women's sport, and I think that's

414
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Speaker 2: where some of the work needs to happen now, is

415
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Speaker 2: actually expanding the imagination, being more creative about what is

416
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Speaker 2: our preferred future here, not what might have, you know,

417
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Speaker 2: what's imposed on us, What do we actually want to

418
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Speaker 2: see here in the future, And it's less about uncertainty

419
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Speaker 2: about what that is. How we get there is you know,

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Speaker 2: that's the debate and the conversation. But if we don't

421
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Speaker 2: think about that now, we never get there because we

422
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Speaker 2: never were always in the present, right, so we just

423
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Speaker 2: never end up somewhere different if we don't think about

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Speaker 2: being somewhere different.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a process or something practical that you

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Speaker 1: implement to challenge assumptions that people have.

427
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Speaker 2: There's quite a few, but there's a fun little process

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Speaker 2: that I use, and it's based on some of Jane

429
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Speaker 2: mcgonagall's work. I call it a flip facts process. It's

430
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Speaker 2: lesha like a two second kind of game that you

431
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Speaker 2: can play that shows that we all have assumptions about

432
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Speaker 2: the world and they're just that assumptions. They're not necessarily facts.

433
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Speaker 2: So what you do is you take a current fact,

434
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Speaker 2: let's say around sport, and it's like an unquestioned truth, right,

435
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 2: we don't even think about it. So let's say, you know,

436
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Speaker 2: the idea that all athletes at the moment banned from

437
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 2: taking drugs. Or let's say the idea that all sports

438
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 2: coaches are human, or the idea that you know, sport

439
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 2: is gender based. So there are three kind of core facts, right,

440
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 2: nobody really necessarily questions them that much. And what the

441
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 2: game is is to say, let's just create an opposite

442
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 2: statement for that. So instead of saying, you know, athletes,

443
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 2: Olympic athletes banned from taking drugs, we just flip the

444
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 2: fact and we say open, you know, open to doping,

445
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 2: athletes can be open to taking drugs whatever. Instead of

446
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 2: saying coaches are human, we say coaches are AI. I'm

447
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 2: just making up opposite statements so you don't have to

448
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 2: get it right. Instead of saying sport is gender based,

449
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 2: let's say like totally open, non gendered sport. And what

450
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,679
Speaker 2: the game is is that you take that flipped fact

451
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 2: and you go and google it and you try and

452
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 2: find what I call a signal of change, so a

453
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 2: concrete bit evidence where that flipped fact actually exists in

454
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 2: the present. So are we going to do this?

455
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: I just got my phone out. Let's do it.

456
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 2: Okay, right, so we've got the three facts. Let's do

457
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 2: the flip facts. So athletes are open to taking drugs,

458
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 2: it's like free for all. Coaches are AI, and sport

459
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 2: is a non gendered base. So what you do is

460
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 2: open up Google, type it in, look for a news search.

461
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 2: We find coaches are AI.

462
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: Shall I yep?

463
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 2: Okay, Now I've just randomly chosen these three things. You

464
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 2: could almost literally choose anything. Okay, Okay, what have we got?

465
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: I've got an article about an artificial intelligence tool to

466
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: help Aussie rules football coaches make decisions based on real

467
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 1: time stats.

468
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 2: Ahah. So we've already got concrete evidence or a signal

469
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 2: of change or a pocket of the future in the

470
00:25:55,080 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 2: present as I call it, where coaching is in grading

471
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 2: and relying on AI tools.

472
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: And it's not that idea of flipping it so far

473
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: to think that a robot is coaching the team, but

474
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: it's like little hints of progress towards that direction.

475
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 2: Exactly, although sometimes you will find the robot example, and

476
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 2: that's the ridiculous future that I tell people to pay

477
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 2: attention to. So let's have a look. So I flipped

478
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 2: the fact of let's say, like Olympic athletes being open

479
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 2: to taking drugs, which again an absurd kind of statement,

480
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 2: and found an example, a concrete bit of evidence the

481
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 2: PayPal co founder Peter Teel is backing an effort to

482
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: create Olympic games that welcomes drug use instead of discouraging

483
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 2: it insane. So it's like superhuman athlete or the flip

484
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 2: fact with sport and gender based sport of I think

485
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 2: it's British triathlon already have an open category and additional

486
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 2: open category. But again there's some signals from a few

487
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 2: years ago now I think it was the New Zealand

488
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: weightlifter at the Laura Hubbard, I think, yeah, at the

489
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 2: Tokyo Olympics.

490
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: Yep.

491
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 2: So there'd be heaps of signals. And the point of

492
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 2: the game isn't that, you know, the Olympics is now

493
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 2: going to be just a free for all from the

494
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 2: doping perspective. It's not to say that that flipped factor

495
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 2: or that signal will become the future. It might. That's

496
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 2: what futurists do. We keep an eye on how they change.

497
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 2: What it is to say is that we have assumptions

498
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 2: and that the future never arrives, right, We're always in

499
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 2: the present. But William Gibson has this brilliant quote and

500
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 2: he says, the future is already here, it's just unevenly distributed.

501
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 2: So where are those little pockets of change that already

502
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 2: exist today? And I find that really useful for two reasons.

503
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 2: It challenges our assumptions, so as soon as someone says

504
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 2: to me, we can't do that, no, I just flip

505
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 2: the fact and I try and find concrete evidence where

506
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 2: it already exists today. But also it gives us a

507
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 2: hint of you know, it expands our range of what

508
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 2: is possible in the present. And it's kind of my

509
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 2: favorite game to do, especially and I've got people that

510
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 2: are really resistant to things in the room.

511
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 1: Of I can see that would be quite fun.

512
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 2: We all kind of have assumptions about the future. It's

513
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 2: based on where you grew up, where you went to school,

514
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,959
Speaker 2: your gender, whole bunch of things, and that shapes our

515
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 2: images of what isn't isn't possible. Part of the work

516
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 2: is to challenge those because they shape our action in

517
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 2: the present more so than I think data on trends.

518
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 2: It's what we believe is possible informs how we act today.

519
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, from what I understand, a lot of your work

520
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: is about reading and researching and staying up to date

521
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: with a whole range of data and information and articles

522
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: across the whole range of topics. But if we look

523
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: at it in a sporting context, of their signals that

524
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: you have started to see pop up, or any examples

525
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: that would be good to chat about.

526
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 2: My job, You're so right, it's like scanning for these signals.

527
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 2: I think I've done this my whole life. To be honest,

528
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 2: I think it. I just fumbled my way into a

529
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 2: profession that actually validates this as a process. But people

530
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: are curious about change. Do it a lot? I think

531
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 2: you do it always looking at articles and saying, oh,

532
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 2: this interesting thing happened over here. So again, a signal

533
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 2: is a small bit of it's an event or you know,

534
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: a phenomena, or a small kind of hint and concrete

535
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 2: evidence of something that's happening that suggests a bit of

536
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 2: a change. I look at thousands of them. I probably

537
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 2: read fifty of them every single day. Part of the

538
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 2: work is to say, now I've seen a pattern emerge,

539
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 2: what is that pattern? But it all starts off with

540
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 2: a bit of a signal. So some that come to mind,

541
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 2: which I find kind of interesting, was the Climate Council report.

542
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 2: So they spoke about the idea that, you know, this

543
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 2: link between sport and climate change and what does that

544
00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 2: kind of mean and how is it showing up now?

545
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 2: But they spoke about the idea and also the fact

546
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 2: sorry that prolonged drought and Australia have resulted in more

547
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 2: shoulder injuries because sports played on harder pictures. It's a

548
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 2: really good example of and I always encourage people when

549
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 2: they're thinking about this work. When you hear a change,

550
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 2: or you read a signal, you read an article, ask

551
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 2: the questions, so what now?

552
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: What? So?

553
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 2: What?

554
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: Like?

555
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: What are the implications for what we do now and

556
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 2: what we might do? You know, does that shift how

557
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 2: we think about our strength and conditioning? Does that change

558
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 2: the types of grounds that we might want to play on?

559
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 2: And in what location and where? Does it change the

560
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 2: work of groundskeepers? I don't know? And now what might

561
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 2: we do in the present. Do we want to just

562
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 2: keep an eye on this or do we actually want

563
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 2: to start to implement some small little changes. Some other

564
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 2: signals that came to mind. I'm really big on this,

565
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 2: and it's a bit of a taboo in many ways

566
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 2: and inside sport, but a lot of signals around sports bedding,

567
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 2: which I think is kind of subtly and also overtly

568
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 2: fundamentally changing the nature of sport. You know, seventy five

569
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 2: percent of I think it's seventy five percent of kids

570
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 2: between eight and sixteen believe sports betting is normal. Wow,

571
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 2: it's a lot of kids I think have now grown

572
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: up in a generation where they don't quite know the

573
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 2: difference between sport and sports betting. Forty minutes of an

574
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 2: NRL game and you get about fifteen minutes of gambling

575
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 2: our ads almost two hundred and something unique ads at once,

576
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 2: and we're now, I'm now looking at emerging signals of

577
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 2: change where you can bet live on athlete biometric data.

578
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: So I can't remember it was squash was a particular

579
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 2: sport where they were thinking about or maybe they're already doing,

580
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 2: but you know, I can watch your heart rate live

581
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 2: and make specific kind of you know, micro bets around that.

582
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,719
Speaker 2: So the question for me is kind of again, so

583
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 2: what now what it's I'm not opposed to sports betting

584
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 2: at all, But the question should be for those inside

585
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 2: of sport, does this mean for us? You know, does

586
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 2: it change the nature of sport? Are we seeing increased

587
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 2: harm amongst our? Athletes? Especially young male athletes are the

588
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: highest risk. I think athletes are like, I don't know,

589
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: three or four times more likely to have sports betting problem.

590
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 2: And yeah, what does that mean in terms of what

591
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 2: we might do come Monday? Not whether it's right or

592
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 2: wrong and whether debate, it's just saying this is a change,

593
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 2: it's occurring. What does that mean for us in terms

594
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 2: of action? I think the stuff I've been following, probably

595
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 2: for about ten years is concussion. I always use this

596
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 2: line that friends said to me once, you're my most

597
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,239
Speaker 2: and least favorite dinner guest in the same night, and

598
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 2: I think you question, yes, you're welcome. I think it's

599
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 2: because part of the work is to talk about this

600
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 2: the cool fun stuff, you know, the cool technology, And

601
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 2: then part of this work is to talk about the

602
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: changes that are already occurring that we don't want to

603
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 2: talk about. And concussion is a really interesting one for

604
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 2: me for a variety of reasons, as someone has also

605
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 2: experienced concussion through sport. I think it's maybe like seven

606
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 2: or eight years ago, maybe even longer. When I first

607
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 2: went to the US and I really started to pay

608
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 2: attention to their investment in flag football. I thought that's

609
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 2: really interesting. But again, concussion is a very old issue.

610
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 2: I always talk about this idea, and I think it's

611
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 2: a quote from Andy Hines. He says change is only fast.

612
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 2: It seems fast because we're not paying attention and we're

613
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 2: taught to look twice as far back on a topic

614
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 2: as we do forward. So concussion's been around since nineteen

615
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,479
Speaker 2: oh six or something with I think it was like

616
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 2: TD Roosevelt. This is a random side tangent, but it's

617
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 2: a really interesting one.

618
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: I'm here for it.

619
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 2: When they first had college athletes playing NFL essentially or yeah,

620
00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 2: American football, and they started to notice and I can't

621
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 2: remember how they describe it, but essentially describing not just

622
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 2: physical injuries, but kind of changes in moods and a

623
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: bunch of things. And I think that was when they

624
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 2: started to invest quite heavily in new equipment. So we

625
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 2: saw like the introduction and the changing equipment requirements for

626
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 2: American footing, and then there's a really so we're on

627
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: a trajectory for like a lot of intervention very early on.

628
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 2: We're talking like early nineteen hundreds, I think asterisks. Anyway,

629
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: it was a long time ago. Then we went to

630
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 2: or they went to war and returning from war. What

631
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 2: that changed was attitudes towards sport and warriorship and pain

632
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 2: and you know the toughness of getting up after a

633
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 2: kind of a head knock and it almost rest. Yeah,

634
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 2: the conversation about concussion anyway, a random backstories because I

635
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 2: started to get really intrigued about what was going on

636
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,760
Speaker 2: in this space, something that feels like it's been around

637
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 2: for a long time because it has. But also I

638
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 2: look at signals of when things inside a topic is

639
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 2: also starting to change in different ways. There was a

640
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 2: really fascinating signal. It was an article and I'm a

641
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 2: bit obsessed with this, and I'd love to do this

642
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 2: at a I think they've done it with the NRL.

643
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 2: But how the demographics of American football have changed. So

644
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 2: there's all the conversation around concussion, around the obvious things

645
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 2: about the injuries, and all the things that are obvious

646
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 2: and in hot debate right now. But the thing I've

647
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 2: been interested in how it is, how it's slowly and quickly,

648
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 2: I guess, changing the nature of who plays the game.

649
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 2: So I think it was a Washington Post article and

650
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 2: they spoke about the declining participation over time in football,

651
00:35:54,880 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 2: but particularly in less liberal areas and among wealthier kids.

652
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 2: So the more conservative you are and less wealthy, the

653
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 2: more likely you are to continue to or advocate or

654
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 2: be playing NFL. And so they've started to watch this

655
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 2: kind of the changing face I guess of American football

656
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,959
Speaker 2: and who plays, which is really interesting. At the same time,

657
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 2: I'm looking at signals of their investment in flag football

658
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 2: and how that's really booming.

659
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: Will be an Olympic sport in LA in twenty twenty eight.

660
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 2: Wow, I didn't know that. Oh that Okay, that's that's

661
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 2: a signal your great sign.

662
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: A pass a test? Can we go?

663
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean for me, that's like, that's that's the

664
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 2: whole thing in and of itself, to say, the changing investment.

665
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 2: The point is that it's it's not whether things will

666
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 2: exist or not exist, it's to look at it more

667
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 2: richly and say, what are the changes and what can

668
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 2: we do now. I think we were talking about it

669
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 2: earlier to some of the advancements in technology that are

670
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 2: emerging in the space you were sharing something.

671
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I saw this post on Instagram and I

672
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 1: thought of this idea of signals that i'd heard you

673
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 1: speak about. And it's I think it's called the que collar,

674
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: and it goes around people's necks almost like a horseshoe

675
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: type shape, and it sits quite close to their necks.

676
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: And from what I could understand, it's meant to have

677
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: a role in preventing concussion because we've got in NOUSY rules,

678
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: we've got mouthguards that are tracking the data around concussion now,

679
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: or they're building in the technology into the mouthguards. But

680
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: from what I understand, this que collar is meant to

681
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 1: be a piece of equipment that helps to prevent concussion.

682
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:37,800
Speaker 1: I don't know the exact mechanics. I couldn't get I

683
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: couldn't really understand how it actually worked. But a couple

684
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 1: of NFL players have started to wear it in different sports.

685
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 1: It's starting to become a little bit more prevalent. And

686
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: I saw it and I was like, I started to wonder,

687
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 1: what could that look like if an AFL player wore it.

688
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: How could that work if they're making a tackle, could

689
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 1: it get pulled? Can it actually help prevent incidents of concussion.

690
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a brilliant example of saying, here's a signal

691
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 2: and so what now, what what does this mean for

692
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 2: me in my context? You know, how could this be

693
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 2: utilized in our contexts of AFL? Would we need to

694
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 2: make adaptations? And what's one small thing we could do?

695
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 2: Maybe we can go and find out about you know,

696
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 2: who's doing the take, what does that actually look like.

697
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 2: But there's some really you know, at the same time,

698
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:29,280
Speaker 2: there's some challenging conversations and some exciting signals around emerging

699
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 2: technologies in this space. I think it's just a hard

700
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 2: conversation that we have to manage as part of players, athletes,

701
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 2: you know, coaches, people that are involved in the game.

702
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:46,879
Speaker 2: I think it's been around for a long time, but

703
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 2: change changes. Part of what I'm seeing is some interesting changes.

704
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 2: I think there was a signal of a oh was

705
00:38:55,880 --> 00:39:01,919
Speaker 2: it a Sydney's girls school that is no longer playing? Yeah?

706
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, they banned ZI rules for concussion concerns from parents

707
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: and staff, I believe.

708
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think part of the declining participation I

709
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 2: think with the NFL and the investment of flag football

710
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: was driven by primarily I think concussions, cost and the competition.

711
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:27,479
Speaker 2: So again it's like, it's it's not People are like, oh, well,

712
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 2: we want to keep playing, and I keep saying, it's

713
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 2: not about It's not about and either or it's about

714
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 2: what's the information that we have and what are the

715
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: decisions that we need to make right now? Where is

716
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 2: there some emerging, exciting advancements in this space, and what

717
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 2: does that mean for what we do right now? What

718
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 2: are our small bets in a long game, which is

719
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 2: like I always talk about small, tiny things, you know,

720
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 2: are we thinking about certain investment funds, what are we

721
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 2: doing from a research perspective, a whole bunch of things

722
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 2: that could become very useful as the conversation around and

723
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 2: the issues around this space kind of emerge over time.

724
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 2: But it's certainly the least favorite dinner guest competition, But

725
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 2: I'm I'm really paying heaps of attention to it because

726
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 2: I think it's nearing a tipping point in many ways.

727
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 1: When I sit on panels, I think one of the

728
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: most common questions I'm asked is what do I think

729
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: the future of women's sport will look like? Or what

730
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 1: do I hope the future of women's sport will look

731
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: like in your job and with your experience, how do

732
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: you approach a question like that.

733
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 2: This is a classic futurist answer, but I always say

734
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 2: it depends.

735
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: Do you know?

736
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 2: That reminds me of when we think about where women's

737
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 2: sport is at now, and you know, the notion of

738
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 2: kind of getting heaps of people in stadiums, and that

739
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 2: sense of that it's some of this is actually old ideas.

740
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 2: So I found this clipping. This is a random Rihanna

741
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 2: sidees chair, but I found this clipping from the paper

742
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 2: from nineteen twenty nine, and it was a photo of

743
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 2: a women's Aussie rules game between two pajama factory workers.

744
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 2: I think it was the Adelaide Oval and had forty

745
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 2: one thousand spectators. And the reason I'm sharing that is

746
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 2: because part of it, I think, is less about trying

747
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 2: to say what the future will be or an in

748
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 2: state of what I want it to be, and more

749
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 2: a conversation of what do I want it to be?

750
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 2: What do we actually prefer? What's a radical imagining? And

751
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 2: I guess the point is that the story of sold

752
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 2: out stadiums is kind of an old one. It's not

753
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:44,439
Speaker 2: necessarily a new thing, but also what's our preference here?

754
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 2: Like if we could sit back and design a preferred

755
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,720
Speaker 2: future of women's sport from scratch, what would we say,

756
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 2: what would we include? It hasn't happened yet, So I

757
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 2: actually think the work to be done is for radical imagination,

758
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 2: and I mean not just like borrowing a future from

759
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 2: men's sport. So I'm really big on this. There are

760
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 2: components of men's sport and elements that are useful to

761
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 2: think about as parts of a vision of a future

762
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: for women's sport. But also we always talk about this

763
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 2: idea of like a borrowed future. I don't think the

764
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 2: work is to mimic a men's sport. I think we

765
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 2: can draw from, you know, components from that, but I

766
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,359
Speaker 2: don't think the work is to mimic it. I think

767
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 2: that narrows our vision of what is possible. I think

768
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 2: women's sport brings its own unique value proposition. I think

769
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 2: part of it is blowing open our assumptions. What are

770
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 2: the edges of what we think is possible for women's sport?

771
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 2: Because remember, if we have a narrow view based on

772
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 2: what we think is or is it possible, that shapes

773
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 2: how we act in the investments that we do or

774
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 2: don't make in women's sport. What would it look like

775
00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 2: if we just blew it open, like radical, what would

776
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 2: we actually want to see more or less of? Not

777
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 2: specific like what's the endpoint, but what would we want

778
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 2: to see more.

779
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: Or less of?

780
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 2: I think for me, that's the way I tend to

781
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 2: talk about it, is what would I want to see

782
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 2: more or less of? As a good example, I think

783
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 2: it's not just about equal pay. And again I think

784
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 2: we get caught up debating the means, not the ends.

785
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 2: The means being equal pay, I mean, that's important, but

786
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:29,439
Speaker 2: you know, I think when we just talk about equal pay,

787
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 2: we miss things that enable the system that helps women's

788
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 2: sport to advance, Like we don't invest in the business

789
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 2: of women's sport, we don't invest sufficiently in the marketing

790
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 2: and promotion of women's sport. I think I would want

791
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 2: to see more investment of which we can then start

792
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 2: to reap the benefits from those changes and then have

793
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 2: conversations about revenue generation, you know what I mean. It's like,

794
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 2: when we debate kind of an ends of equal pay,

795
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 2: we actually don't allow ourselves to build those fundamental foundations

796
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 2: that would allow for those very things. Yeah, I guess

797
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 2: it kind of comes back to what do we want

798
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 2: it to be. I don't know. This is a good question.

799
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 2: What do you answer when you're on those panels.

800
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I think I might look at

801
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: it differently. Now I'm learning a lot from you, and

802
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 1: one thing that came to mind is, Yeah, I think

803
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: probably on that equal pay piece, like when we look

804
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: at women's sport as a whole, there's so many people

805
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: and you and I chatted about this off earlier, there's

806
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,959
Speaker 1: so many people that are engaging with it and coming

807
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 1: along for the ride because it's about the advancement of women.

808
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 1: And I see it as people love seeing women existing

809
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: in spaces that they haven't before because it makes them

810
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 1: feel empowered, like they could potentially do the same in

811
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: whatever area that might apply to in their life. And

812
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: so I think, yeah, just like stepping away from that

813
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 1: idea of equal pay and just having to copy and

814
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 1: paste in the men's game to realize is that women

815
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 1: could if we're talking ridiculous futures, women's sport could bring

816
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 1: in more money than men's in the future if it's

817
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 1: done correctly. Because there's this hugely untapped audience that hasn't

818
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: been invested in, that hasn't received the exposure. So I

819
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: like that for a ridiculous future.

820
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,359
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a little flipback game. I'm sure there

821
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 2: are already pockets of where it already exists, where women's

822
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 2: sports bring in more revenue. But you're so right in

823
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 2: that this is a conversation about sport and its future.

824
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 2: This is a conversation about women and its future. And

825
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 2: then what do they mean in relation to each other?

826
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 2: What future?

827
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 1: You know?

828
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 2: Are we just is it just an extension of what

829
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 2: we're doing in the present. What really blows open those assumptions?

830
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 2: And I think part of this is how do we

831
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 2: create a collective and shared image for that future? For

832
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,840
Speaker 2: me personally, I think sport is a really powerful setting

833
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 2: for social change and health. You know what happens when

834
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 2: you start to think about women's professional sport through that lens.

835
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 2: It part of this is both personal and collective, and

836
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 2: how do we make those images shared? How do we

837
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,439
Speaker 2: make sure who gets to talk about women's sport where

838
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,879
Speaker 2: that's diverse and we have other people in the room.

839
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,919
Speaker 2: I think that's equally important when we're having conversations about

840
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 2: what we want the future to look like, who's in

841
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 2: the room, who's not in the room, who's got the

842
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 2: loudest voice, and what are they saying? And do we

843
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 2: need to challenge that?

844
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm loving it every time I every time you

845
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,479
Speaker 1: chat about these things. I feel like it's a very

846
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: empowering thing. And again, it's that it's shifting this idea

847
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: that even though you feel like you might feel like

848
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: a tiny little fish, you can create change in what

849
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: you want to do. And I'd love to kind of

850
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: wrap up with the people that are listening that might

851
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,439
Speaker 1: love sport, might not love sport, But how can people

852
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 1: actually practically do something If they've listened to this and

853
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 1: felt like, oh, yeah, I like this, how do you

854
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:07,839
Speaker 1: actually practically apply something like that.

855
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,800
Speaker 2: It's such a good question because I think Good Future's

856
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 2: work leaves people with the sense of agency and pathways

857
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 2: not overwhelm. And I think the favorite part about my

858
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,359
Speaker 2: work is when people step away and think I can

859
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 2: do something. You know, the future hasn't happened. I have

860
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,399
Speaker 2: some capacity to influence the future. I always talk about

861
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 2: small bets, like what's one small thing you're going to do?

862
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 2: Come Monday. I sat on a gender equity panel recently

863
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 2: and there was like seven hundred women, mostly in a room,

864
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 2: and we were talking about the business case and how

865
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 2: difficult it would be to advocate for the business case

866
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 2: to pay women equally. And I kind of has got

867
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 2: my book of notes and closed it and waited until

868
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: the moderator asked me a question. And I didn't ask

869
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 2: the question, of course, and I just said, I just

870
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,879
Speaker 2: want to say out loud what we're saying here. We're

871
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 2: saying it's too expensive to pay women. I eat you

872
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 2: fairly for the same work. And part of the provocation

873
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 2: was to say, the future hasn't happened. You know, what

874
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 2: is a preferred future? Because you're going to be inhabiting

875
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 2: that you already are, you're already being paid less. What

876
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,399
Speaker 2: are the small microactivisms that you can be doing right

877
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 2: now come Monday, you know. And I'm talking about from

878
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 2: a gender equality stance at the moment, but just kind

879
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 2: of really giving that audience a sense of agency that

880
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 2: they can do things. They make decisions every day. Is

881
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 2: how they talk to their children, it's the jobs they

882
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 2: decide to take. It's a whole bunch of things that

883
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 2: influences the future, and the question is what is the

884
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 2: preferred future that you actually want? Is that one where

885
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 2: in ten years time you'll advocating for the cost to

886
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 2: pay you in the room fairly to do the same work. Anyway,

887
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 2: the point of that, I guess was, is that we

888
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 2: do have capacity to shape and influence the future our

889
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 2: own and then equally society. I fundamentally believe that even

890
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 2: through very small actions, very tiny actions. You turn up

891
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 2: to games, you follow the broadcast, you do a whole

892
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 2: bunch of things. It's how you talk about women's sport.

893
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 2: It's all of those things. I think some practical things.

894
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 2: I think thinking about the way that we talk about

895
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 2: the images of the future for women's sport, and how

896
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 2: we challenge them, and how we have full permission to

897
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 2: challenge them because the future hasn't happened. Yeah, that's my

898
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 2: favorite thing. It's like I've done this work with lawyers

899
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 2: once and they just couldn't argue in the end because

900
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 2: I'd just said, that's your image of the future great

901
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 2: ours is minus, and the conversation is about the difference.

902
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 2: But the future hasn't happened, So you do have influence,

903
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,879
Speaker 2: You do have agency. What is the conversation that you're

904
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 2: having with other people about what is possible for women's sport?

905
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 2: Where are we limiting that unconsciously think about the ridiculous.

906
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 2: So hold space for the ridiculous and challenge our assumptions

907
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:26,800
Speaker 2: every time we kind of narrow possibility. I love telling

908
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 2: people to scan for signals, and I kind of have

909
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 2: this rule of three strikes. So the third time you

910
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,359
Speaker 2: hear something start to pay attention. You're like, oh, that's

911
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 2: the third time I've now heard this phrase, this technology,

912
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,879
Speaker 2: or an athlete talk about blah, that's a really interesting thing.

913
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 2: And then kind of practically this idea of small bets

914
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 2: in a long game. So people always feel overwhelmed about change.

915
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 2: You know, this is where I am at. This is

916
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 2: where women's sport is at now, this is where we

917
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 2: say we want to see more of and move towards.

918
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 2: That feels like a big, heavy space. I'm really big

919
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 2: on to navigate that big, heavy space. What are the

920
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:08,240
Speaker 2: small bets in a longer game? And they are micro

921
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 2: you know, experiments, interventions, things that we test, things that

922
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 2: we learn from that start to move us more towards

923
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,240
Speaker 2: the future that we want and away from the futures

924
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:22,879
Speaker 2: that we don't want. If we think about the best

925
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 2: analogy is trajectory of a plane. If you change it

926
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 2: by two degrees, you end up somewhere very different at

927
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 2: the end. And all the work is to do is

928
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 2: to think about, you know, what are those preferred features

929
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:36,799
Speaker 2: for women's sport and what are the small things we're

930
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 2: going to do come Monday to help move and turn

931
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:40,720
Speaker 2: the trajectory of where we are today.

932
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. Thank you so much for your time, Randa.

933
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 1: I just love learning from you and listening to you

934
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,919
Speaker 1: talk about these things. As I said, I walk away

935
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 1: from these conversations feeling like I can do really small

936
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 1: things to create change, and I think that's a really

937
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 1: powerful thing. So thank you so much for your time today.

938
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 2: You're welcome. I think the Female Athlete Project is a

939
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 2: perfect example of something that is already creating change in

940
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:12,839
Speaker 2: the present. So well done, big fan, Thank you very much.

941
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 2: Thanks for taking the time out to chat.

942
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,399
Speaker 1: I loved it. Thank you so much, Thanks so much

943
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 1: for listening. If you got something out of this episode,

944
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 1: I would absolutely love it if you could send it

945
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 1: on to one person who you think might enjoy it. Otherwise, subscribe,

946
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 1: give us a review, and make sure you follow us

947
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,440
Speaker 1: on Instagram at the Female Athlete Project to stay up

948
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 1: to date with podcast episodes, merch drops, and of course,

949
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 1: news and stories about epic female athletes.