WEBVTT - DICKO GETS REAL ABOUT PIRATES AND IDOLS IN 2021!

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to TV Relo. This is another bonus episode

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<v Speaker 1>featuring a quick chat with Holy Molly's favorite pirate, Ian

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<v Speaker 1>Dixon Dicker, as we came to know him, landed in

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<v Speaker 1>Australia with long hair, an accent, and more than a

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<v Speaker 1>few opinions, but with a sense of humor and charisma

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<v Speaker 1>that certainly outweighed any negatives. He was the so called

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<v Speaker 1>nasty judge on Channel ten's Australian Idol, but resonated so

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<v Speaker 1>deeply with audiences he quickly became one of the most

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<v Speaker 1>sought after television personalities over the last twenty years. It's

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<v Speaker 1>probably a good point to mention my admiration for this man,

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<v Speaker 1>as I certainly appreciate his raw, unfiltered points of view,

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<v Speaker 1>especially in a world where people don't often tell you

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<v Speaker 1>their truth. Today we will talk about Holy Molly and

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<v Speaker 1>why he said yes to dressing as a pirate for

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<v Speaker 1>the newest show on Channel seven, but will also have

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<v Speaker 1>an honest conversation about television and I'll find out if

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<v Speaker 1>Channel seven has actually asked him to return to the

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<v Speaker 1>upcoming reboot of Australian Idol in twenty twenty two. I'd

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<v Speaker 1>like to welcome to the podcast The One and Only

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<v Speaker 1>Ian Dixon.

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<v Speaker 2>It's funny. I'm not knocking myself when I sign a

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<v Speaker 2>c great celebrity.

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<v Speaker 3>He's got about as much chance of winning this competition

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<v Speaker 3>as I have of playing cricket for England.

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<v Speaker 2>I've got more ambition now than I've had in about

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five years. Tell me about Dad I Dia. What

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<v Speaker 2>do we know about it? What they've got a nostalgia

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<v Speaker 2>for is the body count and the blood on the walls.

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<v Speaker 2>I was actually one of the most famous people on

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<v Speaker 2>TV at one point. If you present me with a

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<v Speaker 2>TV show that's ludicrous, I'm going to be interested.

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<v Speaker 1>That's why I bought my idol.

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<v Speaker 2>Judge decided that he would start his own music festival.

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<v Speaker 2>No guarantee that because it was an iconic television show

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen years ago that he's going to do the business. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>How are you, mate?

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<v Speaker 2>Are you well? I'm really well. Yeah, I'm about to

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<v Speaker 2>turn fifty eight and feeling every single one of those

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<v Speaker 2>years at the moment.

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<v Speaker 1>And look it's still working, which is amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's funny. I've kind of found my level now. Ben

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<v Speaker 2>dressing up as a pirate and chipping golf balls over

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<v Speaker 2>a shark infestive ball. That's kind of me, and it's good.

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<v Speaker 2>It's only taken me eighteen years to realize my worth

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<v Speaker 2>for Australian television. But I look at that sounds snippy,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not at all. I've realized that I had a really,

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<v Speaker 2>really good long run on television for someone with no

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<v Speaker 2>discernible talents really, you know, apart from you know, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>a quick tongue and honesty and a certain energy. I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't you know, I don't sing, I don't dance, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't act, but I've had a crack at all of

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<v Speaker 2>those things. But yeah, look, I've realized that they kept

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<v Speaker 2>me around for a long time, probably you know, a

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<v Speaker 2>few years longer than I probably deserved. So I had

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<v Speaker 2>no problem with the fact that the phone stopped bringing

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<v Speaker 2>with regards to television, and I kind of changed my

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<v Speaker 2>life anyway. Mel and I left Sydney, moved to a

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<v Speaker 2>small dairy town in southeast Queensland and life got a

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<v Speaker 2>lot simpler. And then I ended up just kind of

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<v Speaker 2>stumbling back into rock and roll. And I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>how this happened. I was meant to be playing golf

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<v Speaker 2>and bowls and making sour though, But now I'm in

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<v Speaker 2>the office six days a week and we've got live

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<v Speaker 2>shows up and we've managed six bands, So yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>should be slowing down. But actually, do you know what,

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<v Speaker 2>I've got more ambition now than I've had in about

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five years. And I think when I was pretty

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<v Speaker 2>successful on television, that's the one thing I realized it

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<v Speaker 2>deprived me of, was my ambition. Everything was too easy

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<v Speaker 2>and too rosy, and I just stopped being hungry. So

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<v Speaker 2>I guess I'm grateful I've come around to that, even

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<v Speaker 2>at the age of fifty eight.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, you talk about being a failed celebrity, being

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<v Speaker 1>the C grade celebrity, which I always think is really

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<v Speaker 1>quite strange. And I also think it's a bit of

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<v Speaker 1>a laugh because you've actually been on nearly every show

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<v Speaker 1>in the country. Are you just trying to mock yourself

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<v Speaker 1>before others mock you? Is that just a part of

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<v Speaker 1>who you are?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh? Of course, Celebrity is such an embarrassing word anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it emasculates it and makes it bulletproof if

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<v Speaker 2>you are give it the prefixed C grade celebrity an

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<v Speaker 2>unseemly swelling of the ego, and we all forfell to

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<v Speaker 2>it when we are on television and it is you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it does give you a certain buzz and it's it

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<v Speaker 2>is kind of addictive. But at the same time, you

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<v Speaker 2>and I both entered television as part of the new

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<v Speaker 2>wave of ordinary people that were allowed onto our screens

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<v Speaker 2>through reality television. And when I grew up addicted to television,

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<v Speaker 2>I loved it. But when I grew up watching television,

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<v Speaker 2>people on TV were celebrities, they were stars, and people

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<v Speaker 2>like you and I were not allowed anywhere need TV

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<v Speaker 2>screens unless we'd done something really bad on the news

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<v Speaker 2>and were interviewed, or we were a contestant on a

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<v Speaker 2>game show that was the only only available avenue for

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<v Speaker 2>us to be on TV screens. Then all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 2>it was deemed a great idea, probably through Big Brother

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<v Speaker 2>in the UK or Holland as it was where it

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<v Speaker 2>started saying that there's a massive vein that can be

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<v Speaker 2>mined in real people being put in very unusual, high

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<v Speaker 2>pressure situations. So yeah, we were allowed onto TV, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think as such, the idea of celebrity has been

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<v Speaker 2>diminished somewhat, you know, I mean, I remember people being

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<v Speaker 2>popped out of reality shows and even my show Australian Idol,

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<v Speaker 2>having been in the public eye for a year and

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<v Speaker 2>a half writing autobiographies, that to me feels faintally ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's what I guess. I always have that in

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<v Speaker 2>my mind when I rail against the idea of celebrity

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<v Speaker 2>and in the grand scheme of things, I think C

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<v Speaker 2>grade is a good level of self awareness. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>Nicole Kidman is an A grader, Keith Urban's an A grader.

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<v Speaker 2>I would say, you know, right now, maybe Guy Sebastian,

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<v Speaker 2>he's probably be But I'd have to put myself under

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<v Speaker 2>guy right now, and I'm happy to be under guy.

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<v Speaker 2>I never thought i'd say that.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll ask his wife if he's okay with that first time.

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<v Speaker 2>So look, I know it's funny to grade yourself, but

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's good to be. It's good to have

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<v Speaker 2>some level of awareness. It's funny. I'm not knocking myself

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<v Speaker 2>when I sign a C great celebrity. I'm kind of

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<v Speaker 2>proud at that level. I think, you know, it's okay.

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<v Speaker 2>I still get people still look at me and go, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>you're you're that touchdown guy. Aren't you going well near enough?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's amazing how people's brains in Australia sometimes curdle

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<v Speaker 1>because then they get things like that mixed up. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>Mark Holden's obviously the touchdown guy from that show. And

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<v Speaker 1>I have people come up to me and ask me

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<v Speaker 1>what it was like to be in Big Brother with

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah Marie And I was on Big Brother, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>like seven years after her. But people they change it

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<v Speaker 1>in their minds.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a big blomonge for them. And look that's fine.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, look that's our fault. I mean, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we ended up as an industry put in the same

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<v Speaker 2>show on the same channel four nights a week, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, how are they going to pick their way

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<v Speaker 2>through that? I mean, imagine the absolute opposite of that

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<v Speaker 2>is Faulty Terrors that only ever made twelve episode and

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<v Speaker 2>it's one of the giants. It's one of the absolute

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<v Speaker 2>monoliths of TV history, and they made twelve episodes and

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<v Speaker 2>you can pick every single one of those episodes and

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<v Speaker 2>lines from within them. But we've created these big, blobby

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<v Speaker 2>monsters that exist on our channels four nights a week

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<v Speaker 2>because we think that's what we need to give the public.

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<v Speaker 2>Plus all the other platforms. You know, it's no wonder

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<v Speaker 2>that their brains are scrambled about.

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<v Speaker 1>What we've delivered, oh one hundred percent. You know what's

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<v Speaker 1>interesting about you turning up on Channel seven for Holly

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<v Speaker 1>Molly is everyone's like, oh, this coincidentally is happening at

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<v Speaker 1>the same time as Australian Idol coming back and being

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<v Speaker 1>on seven.

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<v Speaker 2>Mister Dixon, Hello that do you know what, Courtney?

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<v Speaker 3>If the drag scene was in a state of nine

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<v Speaker 3>one one, I reckon you're the chick to save it.

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<v Speaker 2>I really do, and I think you're going to rule

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<v Speaker 2>the drag scene. The question here is whether you can

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<v Speaker 2>rule the pop scene.

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<v Speaker 1>You'd be forgiven for thinking it's a tease for you

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<v Speaker 1>coming back to the show. But you've, you know, publicly

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<v Speaker 1>come out and said, you who don't really want to

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<v Speaker 1>go back to that show unless you were really tied

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<v Speaker 1>to it being able to manage the person that comes

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<v Speaker 1>out of that show. Don't you think you coming back

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<v Speaker 1>to that format and promising to then want to manage

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<v Speaker 1>these people afterwards seems like a more realistic show.

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<v Speaker 2>Well it does to me, but I don't think that's

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<v Speaker 2>where television is these days. I think television is risk averse.

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<v Speaker 2>And also when I first was on Australian Idol, there

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<v Speaker 2>was no social media, and social media now is a

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<v Speaker 2>twenty four hour war on flaws, so any person saying

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<v Speaker 2>anything negative about anyone would be there'd be a flame war,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. So I think that they like to manage.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the networks love to manage the to and

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<v Speaker 2>fro that he said, she said between celebrity judges, and

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<v Speaker 2>just keep it corraled in the studio in a controlled environment.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't really think they want some lad math like

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<v Speaker 2>banging off about someone and just having cancel. Culture come

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<v Speaker 2>not on the door. Look regardless of anything. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't even know if it is coming back. It

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<v Speaker 2>certainly seems to have dropped off all of the up fronts,

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<v Speaker 2>so I don't know if they've had second thoughts. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>to be honest, they should have second thoughts because there's

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<v Speaker 2>no guarantee that because it was an iconic television show

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen years ago, that it's going to do the business now.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, we all remember what happened with Hayate Saturday.

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<v Speaker 2>When that came back. They did a two hour special

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<v Speaker 2>on Saturday night and it absolutely rated its tits off

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<v Speaker 2>and everyone went whoa full series, and I think it

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<v Speaker 2>had a really great first episode and then was on

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<v Speaker 2>the nose. No one watched it for the rest of

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<v Speaker 2>the series, and everyone in the network had wavy line

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<v Speaker 2>smiles like the ABC logo, and we're really happy when

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<v Speaker 2>it ended. There's absolutely no guarantee the idol would work

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<v Speaker 2>if he came back.

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<v Speaker 1>I think though, that the nostalgia factor is obviously a

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<v Speaker 1>draw card, and I think that's why James Warburton's like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, let's bring this show back. Nostalgia certainly can

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<v Speaker 1>bring people back there, but if you stupefy the audience

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<v Speaker 1>in any way, they drop off and hey, hey it's Saturday.

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<v Speaker 1>As an example of that was brought back is hey

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<v Speaker 1>hey it's Wednesday, and you know you're already changing the

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<v Speaker 1>way in which the audiences interact with it. I think

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<v Speaker 1>nostalgia works for an element, and yes, you could bring

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<v Speaker 1>it back and have them there on day not you know,

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<v Speaker 1>on the first night out, But then to keep them

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<v Speaker 1>there you have to be smarter these days. And that's

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<v Speaker 1>where I think something that you said in the media,

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<v Speaker 1>which I thought was powerful, was the fact that you

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<v Speaker 1>know you'd want to manage these people afterwards. And getting

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<v Speaker 1>back to that, these shows we've been seen like you

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<v Speaker 1>were there right on the ground floor, and that was

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<v Speaker 1>that no one was following these people up and helping

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<v Speaker 1>them have a music career. They kind of the show

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<v Speaker 1>was over and all of a sudden they were gone.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think modernizing it these days, you need to

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<v Speaker 1>be there and say, well, we're in for the long haul.

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<v Speaker 1>We're not just here to get the ratings and sell

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<v Speaker 1>the advertising.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's a big call. Even back eighteen years ago,

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<v Speaker 2>it was really tough call to try and get Grundy

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<v Speaker 2>as they were then the TV production company, to give

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<v Speaker 2>us the time and space to make these contestants stars.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm really proud the BMG Records at the time

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<v Speaker 2>as a whole. Everyone in the company brought into the

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<v Speaker 2>idea that we were going to launch one of these

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<v Speaker 2>guys out of the cannon into the marketing and have

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<v Speaker 2>records selling releases, and we did. But that was the

0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:32.080
<v Speaker 2>fact that we all we had to fight long and

0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:36.160
<v Speaker 2>hard in the schedule to get these guys out of

0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.920
<v Speaker 2>TV land and to write and record backing tracks for

0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.480
<v Speaker 2>songs that some of them were never going to release,

0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:45.120
<v Speaker 2>we took a real leap of faith and as a result,

0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:48.040
<v Speaker 2>Guy's single was the fastest selling single of all time

0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:50.920
<v Speaker 2>and Guys Album was the fastest selling album of all time,

0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:55.079
<v Speaker 2>and that still holds. And eighteen years on, he's a superstar,

0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.720
<v Speaker 2>and so is Shannon, and you know, we got Ricky Lee,

0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:02.160
<v Speaker 2>we got Jess Malboy. Lots of careers have come out

0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.760
<v Speaker 2>of this show, and I think that's because because of

0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.840
<v Speaker 2>the record company as much as the production company. But look,

0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if they've got the patience for this anymore. Ben.

0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.800
<v Speaker 2>The one thing you talk about nostalgia, I hear what

0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:20.280
<v Speaker 2>you're saying, but big portion of Australian idols allure was

0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:22.880
<v Speaker 2>the fact that we traveled around the country and saw

0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:26.839
<v Speaker 2>all these nutjobs turning up singing when they can't go

0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:32.360
<v Speaker 2>and with my heart will take me I've got yeah, Michael, yep.

0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.240
<v Speaker 3>I'm not being rude, but that voice should come with

0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:41.240
<v Speaker 3>a government warning. Was that serious attempt at being Australian idol.

0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:45.559
<v Speaker 2>They're not going to do that anymore, and so we're

0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:48.000
<v Speaker 2>not going to end up with all these amazing characters

0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:52.320
<v Speaker 2>who weren't that great at singing. But we're lovable idiots

0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:56.440
<v Speaker 2>on the TV and fodder for some ritual humiliation. That's

0:12:56.480 --> 0:13:00.280
<v Speaker 2>what everyone is really nostalgic about, because with that that

0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:03.079
<v Speaker 2>you're not going to get to those big moments with

0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:06.320
<v Speaker 2>climb every mountain and what about me? You're not Otherwise

0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:09.439
<v Speaker 2>it's just a shiny floor sceneing show that means nothing,

0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:11.679
<v Speaker 2>you know, It's just like the rest. So if they're

0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:15.760
<v Speaker 2>brave enough to bring back the ritual slaughter of innocence

0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:20.199
<v Speaker 2>in places like Dubbo and Bunderberg, great, I think it's

0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:23.199
<v Speaker 2>got a chance. But if they're going to sanitize it

0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.080
<v Speaker 2>and just keep it squeaky clean, no one has a

0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:28.559
<v Speaker 2>nostalgia for that because they can still get that now.

0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:31.200
<v Speaker 2>What they've got a nostalgia for is the body count

0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:32.240
<v Speaker 2>and the blood on the walls.

0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.840
<v Speaker 1>I was talking to paul Anie last week and paul

0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:36.880
<v Speaker 1>Annie was saying that it was the rawness you know,

0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.679
<v Speaker 1>which is obviously connecting to what you're saying. She was like,

0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:41.520
<v Speaker 1>if the show comes back and it's to work, it

0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:45.320
<v Speaker 1>is that it's less about the staging spectacular that you

0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:47.920
<v Speaker 1>might see on the voice or you and the ability

0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:49.640
<v Speaker 1>to make it feel like you from home could be

0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.679
<v Speaker 1>those people. I think that's you know, I guess that's

0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:56.000
<v Speaker 1>the magic of reality television. Anthony Klea was an interesting

0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:59.200
<v Speaker 1>one coming into series two because you know, obviously he

0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:00.839
<v Speaker 1>was probably one of the best singers that was ever

0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.160
<v Speaker 1>on the show, but you know he was struggling with

0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:06.600
<v Speaker 1>his sexuality. Did you ever offer any advice to him

0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:10.160
<v Speaker 1>at the time about you know, at that time, you

0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.880
<v Speaker 1>probably couldn't be gay on television, you know, did you

0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:14.120
<v Speaker 1>offer him advice.

0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:18.720
<v Speaker 2>That's not true or you you absolutely could be gay

0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:22.720
<v Speaker 2>on television. Look, I was I probably went a little hard.

0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:26.680
<v Speaker 2>We all knew Anthony was gay, right, and I remember

0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:30.880
<v Speaker 2>saying to him, Look, mate, we're going to be your

0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:34.360
<v Speaker 2>record company, and we can help you have the life

0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:38.320
<v Speaker 2>you want to live and shag who you want and

0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.520
<v Speaker 2>keep a public persona for your career if that's what

0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:43.960
<v Speaker 2>you choose, if you want to keep it quiet. But

0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.240
<v Speaker 2>it's good that we know because you know, you wouldn't

0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:49.000
<v Speaker 2>be the first person for us to do it. I mean,

0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.640
<v Speaker 2>virtually every boy band ever was got one gay member.

0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:56.440
<v Speaker 2>It's a rule. Every boy band's got one ugly one

0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:58.880
<v Speaker 2>and one gay one, and that's the way it goes.

0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:00.960
<v Speaker 2>So it's like it's not like it's not like it's

0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:04.640
<v Speaker 2>our first fucking rodeo. But but he said, he was going,

0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:08.320
<v Speaker 2>how very dare you? I am not gay? And look,

0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.120
<v Speaker 2>he was a shame. But yeah, we gave him that option,

0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:12.960
<v Speaker 2>but he wasn't ready for it. And look, do you

0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.640
<v Speaker 2>know what, at the end of the day, it's not

0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.400
<v Speaker 2>it's not my job to out someone. I was trying

0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:22.240
<v Speaker 2>to reach out. But the fact is that Anthony, I think,

0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:26.160
<v Speaker 2>had a different set of challenges for his coming out.

0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:29.800
<v Speaker 2>He had a quite a conservative Italian family with an

0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:33.400
<v Speaker 2>old nonna that probably, you know, he would have felt

0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:37.640
<v Speaker 2>very self conscious about people come to this realization in

0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:39.840
<v Speaker 2>their own time. And look, and I know I've got

0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:43.000
<v Speaker 2>enough gay mates, many many gay mates. A lot of

0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:46.000
<v Speaker 2>them look down on guys that won't come out. And

0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:48.800
<v Speaker 2>I know there's a militancy and there's there's a real

0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:53.120
<v Speaker 2>militant faction in the in the gay world. You know

0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.400
<v Speaker 2>about guys who come to come to this late. But

0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:58.640
<v Speaker 2>you've got to give everyone a chance to live their

0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:00.880
<v Speaker 2>own life and get to where they want to be

0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.080
<v Speaker 2>at their time. So you know what, we did reach out.

0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:05.880
<v Speaker 2>I was probably a bit forceful on a couple of

0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.080
<v Speaker 2>times with Anthony, and that's probably something I should not

0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.880
<v Speaker 2>have done. You know, it's no one's business. Really. I

0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:15.080
<v Speaker 2>thought I was being helpful, but Anthony really, you know,

0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:18.400
<v Speaker 2>needed and deserved the opportunity to get to who he

0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:20.880
<v Speaker 2>was in his time frame, not mine.

0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.280
<v Speaker 1>You know, you and mel as in your wife sitting

0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.760
<v Speaker 1>there watching Anthony and Tim do those YouTube videos now

0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:29.960
<v Speaker 1>where they're miming to things. Have you seen any of that?

0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:32.560
<v Speaker 2>No, I haven't seen any of those, actually, But I

0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.440
<v Speaker 2>love because Tim, Tim's a matter of ours as well.

0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.320
<v Speaker 2>Me and my partner David, We used to manage Tim

0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:42.440
<v Speaker 2>as well. Tim's a really unusual gay guy. Tim's a

0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:45.520
<v Speaker 2>real knock about, sort of Campbelltown guy, you know, he's

0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.480
<v Speaker 2>a real sort of Westy and he's real sort of

0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:50.720
<v Speaker 2>knock about. And I never would have put those two

0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:54.080
<v Speaker 2>together in a million years. I never would have thought

0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:57.840
<v Speaker 2>they'd be. But they've turned out as one of most

0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:01.240
<v Speaker 2>fabulously successful power couples, you know.

0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:03.520
<v Speaker 1>You know, going back to sort of the how it

0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:05.639
<v Speaker 1>all started with you with being sort of villainous, do

0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.560
<v Speaker 1>you think that honesty still comes across as being the villain?

0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't see an awful lot of honesty on television,

0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:15.280
<v Speaker 2>so I'm not really able to answer that. Certainly, in

0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:20.280
<v Speaker 2>reality television, I see people performing a script very very well.

0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.560
<v Speaker 2>The villains in Married at First Sight are the classics

0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.359
<v Speaker 2>these days. They're the people that you love to hate

0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.080
<v Speaker 2>these days, I would say. But even then, Look, do

0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:33.000
<v Speaker 2>you know in Australian Idol two we had people turning

0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:37.200
<v Speaker 2>up to audition knowing the script. You're never going to

0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:40.919
<v Speaker 2>have the wonder of the first series ever again, Yeah,

0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:46.160
<v Speaker 2>everybody knows. I like on My Kitchen Rules or Married

0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.120
<v Speaker 2>at First Sight, everybody knows what you need to do

0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:52.800
<v Speaker 2>to be that person. I mean, look at you were

0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:55.000
<v Speaker 2>an odd one because you were a little bit of

0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:58.040
<v Speaker 2>a little bit of a villain, weren't you. Well you were,

0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:01.040
<v Speaker 2>but a lot of it, you know what there was.

0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:04.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, we loved you because you know, there was

0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.240
<v Speaker 2>a sharp tongue, cattiness and an honesty in what you

0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:11.399
<v Speaker 2>did on Big Brother that really spoke to me. For me,

0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:14.560
<v Speaker 2>I felt that was eminently watchable. But there was a

0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:16.680
<v Speaker 2>sight of me that I still felt that you knew

0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:18.840
<v Speaker 2>what you were doing, but I didn't feel it was

0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:23.119
<v Speaker 2>not genuine. I just thought it was clever and smart,

0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:25.840
<v Speaker 2>and I don't know that these days it's just as

0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:27.760
<v Speaker 2>long as you've got the big fish lips and the

0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:30.520
<v Speaker 2>big iron makeup and you can give a bitchy look,

0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:32.760
<v Speaker 2>you're in. You know, it doesn't take an awful lot

0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:35.360
<v Speaker 2>to be an arshole on television these days? Is it

0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:39.560
<v Speaker 2>when we were lads. When we're lads, we really actually work.

0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:41.760
<v Speaker 1>But I think it's about being authentic. And I think

0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.800
<v Speaker 1>that's maybe why people are turning away from television in

0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:47.960
<v Speaker 1>some ways, is that if you aren't being authentic on television,

0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:50.680
<v Speaker 1>people are wise to it, so they switch off. Where

0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:52.320
<v Speaker 1>I think you can be a good person or a

0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:55.399
<v Speaker 1>bad person, but as long as you're being authentic, audiences

0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:57.960
<v Speaker 1>will connect to you. And the closer that we've come

0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.840
<v Speaker 1>to making TV look like Ruth Bereford's latest film and

0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:05.960
<v Speaker 1>making it all so tight and squeaky clean, we lose

0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:08.200
<v Speaker 1>that opportunity to feel seen on screen.

0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:13.040
<v Speaker 2>I think, Look, I think you're right for me. It's

0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:17.199
<v Speaker 2>if you head for the humanity in any situation, then

0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:21.520
<v Speaker 2>it's going to be watchable and compelling and most the

0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:26.120
<v Speaker 2>problem there for free to air television is most humanity

0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:31.399
<v Speaker 2>is nuanced and complicated, and that doesn't always work for television.

0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:34.840
<v Speaker 2>If you've got a really smart producer and set of

0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:39.439
<v Speaker 2>editors who understand how to create that narrative and retain

0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:43.280
<v Speaker 2>the authenticity, you know, you can show those nuances and

0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:47.320
<v Speaker 2>those complexities and those gray areas where most of us live.

0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:51.720
<v Speaker 2>But unfortunately a lot of lazy producers just regard reality

0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:54.480
<v Speaker 2>as life with all the boring bits taken out as

0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:57.040
<v Speaker 2>they perceive it. You know, they just give us this

0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:01.159
<v Speaker 2>either massive sugar hit or a see splash of acid,

0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:04.040
<v Speaker 2>nothing in between. And I don't think people live life

0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:06.760
<v Speaker 2>like that. So yeah, I think when you've got great,

0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:10.040
<v Speaker 2>smart producers you understand how to portray a nuance, that's

0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:11.320
<v Speaker 2>when it gets really interesting.

0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:13.399
<v Speaker 1>No, I don't necessarily know if we do, but I

0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.760
<v Speaker 1>think that'll be the problem with worrying about the ratings

0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:18.760
<v Speaker 1>for tomorrow versus whether or not people are going to

0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:21.040
<v Speaker 1>still watch free to wear television in years to come.

0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:24.160
<v Speaker 1>You might continue to chase those ratings for the short term,

0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:26.000
<v Speaker 1>but whether or not that's going to pay off in

0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:27.439
<v Speaker 1>the long term, I think it's going to be the

0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.040
<v Speaker 1>is where I see the problem. But you know, that

0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:33.720
<v Speaker 1>could be just me. Have they actually asked that's the question.

0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:36.480
<v Speaker 1>I don't think anyone's asked you so has seven wrung

0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:39.439
<v Speaker 1>you and said would you come back and do Australian idol?

0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:40.639
<v Speaker 2>No?

0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:42.879
<v Speaker 1>No, because that's the one thing that I'm like. You know,

0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:45.000
<v Speaker 1>so many people were talking about it coming back and

0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:46.840
<v Speaker 1>they were like, would March come back? With Mark Holton

0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:49.119
<v Speaker 1>come back? And I had actually interviewed a few with

0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:52.480
<v Speaker 1>executive producers who you know, could be working on this show,

0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:54.639
<v Speaker 1>and I was like, it's really interesting. I think if

0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:56.760
<v Speaker 1>they need to have one nostalgic person brought back, I

0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:58.520
<v Speaker 1>think it'll be you. And I hope you say yes.

0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.240
<v Speaker 2>It's very kind of you to say that. And as

0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:03.760
<v Speaker 2>I said, I would consider it, but the only reason

0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:06.560
<v Speaker 2>for me to do it would be was if I

0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:09.880
<v Speaker 2>was going to work with the winner, because I still

0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:13.760
<v Speaker 2>think the most powerful sentiment that I could on Idle

0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:16.359
<v Speaker 2>was I'm not saying you couldn't make money out of

0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:18.320
<v Speaker 2>your voice. It's just that I can't make money out

0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:21.960
<v Speaker 2>of your voice, and that in that really mundane sentence,

0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:25.639
<v Speaker 2>it shows that's what we're about. You know, there's a

0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:29.040
<v Speaker 2>lot of weekend singers out there who are fabulous and

0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:31.600
<v Speaker 2>if that's all they ever want good on yet, but

0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:34.880
<v Speaker 2>it takes something really special, you know. I always work

0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:40.080
<v Speaker 2>with artists with three criteria in mind likability, ambition, and

0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:43.120
<v Speaker 2>talent in that order, and you get to see all

0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:46.719
<v Speaker 2>three of those on a process like idle, you know,

0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:48.720
<v Speaker 2>because when someone walks in a room, you get a

0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:52.200
<v Speaker 2>sense of their likability, you can smell it. With regards

0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:55.359
<v Speaker 2>to their ambition, you start to get an idea over

0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:58.520
<v Speaker 2>the different rounds as to whether they can apply themselves

0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:01.119
<v Speaker 2>and whether they've got the the real gumption to give

0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:04.080
<v Speaker 2>it a go. And then finally you discover whether they

0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:07.760
<v Speaker 2>have any real raw talent, you know. And I think

0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:10.639
<v Speaker 2>most of those guys who've who've done well, you know,

0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:13.480
<v Speaker 2>follow that code pretty closely. Yeah.

0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:16.080
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, How did Holy Moly come about? How did they

0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:17.760
<v Speaker 1>get in contact with you about this show?

0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:20.439
<v Speaker 2>My manager David rang me up and said there's a

0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:22.719
<v Speaker 2>TV show. They want you to dress as a pirate

0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:27.040
<v Speaker 2>and play golf. And I went, sure, you haven't heard

0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:29.199
<v Speaker 2>of what the TV show is yet, And I said, well,

0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:32.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't need to know. That's perfect because it's ludicrous

0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:36.520
<v Speaker 2>if you present me with a TV show that's from

0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:40.359
<v Speaker 2>the outset ludicrous. I'm going to be interested. The ones

0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:42.760
<v Speaker 2>that I'm going to be worried about and allman are

0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:45.359
<v Speaker 2>about are those ones where you've got to pretend, the

0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:47.439
<v Speaker 2>ones where you've got to pretend you really give a

0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:53.199
<v Speaker 2>shit about what's happening, and and's't. It's like sex with

0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:57.560
<v Speaker 2>no strings, Holy Molly, it's just good fun. And and

0:22:57.880 --> 0:22:59.480
<v Speaker 2>you know you're not going to have to phone anyone

0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:01.359
<v Speaker 2>the next day and tell them why there's not going

0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:03.000
<v Speaker 2>to be a second date. It's perfect.

0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:05.920
<v Speaker 1>Are they already asking you about the second series? Because

0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:08.880
<v Speaker 1>in America they call it Holy Molly, the sequel.

0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:14.679
<v Speaker 2>Holy Molly too, the sequel colon, the special colon on

0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:18.080
<v Speaker 2>Hiss Part one and two? Exclamation point?

0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:22.040
<v Speaker 1>Are you going to dust off the pirate outfit and

0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:23.280
<v Speaker 1>come back and do it all over again?

0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:23.520
<v Speaker 3>Oh?

0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:26.560
<v Speaker 2>I might have to get it dry cleaned myself. And

0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:28.919
<v Speaker 2>now were giving it a bit of a workover on

0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:34.879
<v Speaker 2>Valentine's Night. So no, I think I don't even know

0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:37.240
<v Speaker 2>if there will be a second series. It looks it

0:23:37.280 --> 0:23:40.760
<v Speaker 2>looks kind of expensive. Look if they did, yeah, why not?

0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:43.720
<v Speaker 2>Why they will not? It's you know, it's it's what

0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:48.159
<v Speaker 2>It was literally very short shoot for me and a

0:23:48.200 --> 0:23:49.800
<v Speaker 2>short drive. It was in Brisbane.

0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Do you think we're still as fascinated with celebrity as

0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:54.240
<v Speaker 1>much as we used to be? I mean, do you

0:23:54.280 --> 0:23:56.359
<v Speaker 1>think that we've diluted that? Do you think we're going

0:23:56.400 --> 0:23:58.840
<v Speaker 1>to still see people going into the jungle and eating

0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:01.960
<v Speaker 1>crocodile's legs and or running around Pitt Street Mall on

0:24:02.000 --> 0:24:04.760
<v Speaker 1>Celebrity Apprentice. Do you think the fascination with celebrity is

0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:05.800
<v Speaker 1>still as potent as what.

0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:09.120
<v Speaker 2>It used to be? No, I think I think we've

0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:13.200
<v Speaker 2>completely watered down that concept. I think I think people

0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:16.479
<v Speaker 2>need to actually achieve something now. People need to actually,

0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:21.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm not all of that needs to be nourishing or constructive.

0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:25.000
<v Speaker 2>You can do something absolutely horrendous, but you've got to

0:24:25.000 --> 0:24:27.800
<v Speaker 2>do something. I think. I don't really think you can

0:24:27.920 --> 0:24:30.720
<v Speaker 2>just be anymore. Can't just you can't just light up

0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:34.280
<v Speaker 2>the screen and expect that to travel. I think you've

0:24:34.320 --> 0:24:38.639
<v Speaker 2>actually got to produce something wonderful or horrendous, but you've

0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:39.960
<v Speaker 2>got to produce something. Well.

0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:42.080
<v Speaker 1>It's just been so fantastic to be able to have

0:24:42.119 --> 0:24:44.639
<v Speaker 1>this chat with you. It's so amazing. Thank you so

0:24:44.720 --> 0:24:46.880
<v Speaker 1>much for being able to chat about this and good

0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:47.879
<v Speaker 1>luck with Holy Molly.

0:24:48.320 --> 0:24:50.560
<v Speaker 2>Thank you lovely to see Benny, and I'll give you

0:24:50.560 --> 0:24:52.840
<v Speaker 2>a little squeeze when I see you in real life