1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: Today's episode is another my favorite Tip episode where I 2 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: go back to interviews from the past and I dig 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,600 Speaker 1: out the thing that was my favorite tip, like the 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: thing that I got out of the interview that really 5 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: impacted or resonated with me. Today's extract is from my 6 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: chat with doctor Jason Fox. So this is my second 7 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: time having Jace on the show. I was very keen 8 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: to have him back and check in we think during 9 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: COVID and see how he has adapted to the way 10 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: he approaches work. So if you haven't come across Jace before, 11 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: Jace is someone that I've actually known for about a 12 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: decade now, So like me, he is a scientist at 13 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: heart and has a bias for strategies that are grounded 14 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: in research. Jace travels the world, or at least he 15 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: did pre COVID, helping leaders from companies such as My, Microsoft, Salesforce, McDonald's, 16 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: and Toyota in the area of motivation design. Jace is 17 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: also the best selling author of The Game Changer and 18 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: How to Lead a Quest, and in twenty sixteen was 19 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: awarded Keynote Speaker of the Year. So this extract from 20 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: my chat with Jace was around something he was experimenting 21 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: with at the time, which was looking at a seven 22 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:26,839 Speaker 1: day rhythm for work and life, which I found absolutely fascinating. 23 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: So let's head on over to Jace. 24 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 2: I have allergies to concepts, and so one of the 25 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 2: concepts that just flares my allergies is this word discipline. 26 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 2: And whenever someone says discipline, I just like flare up. 27 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 2: And there's part of me that just like the trickster 28 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 2: in me or something, he just wants to kind of 29 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 2: be all fluid and be like, hey, spontaneous or whatever 30 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 2: it is. And so recently I was doing this interview 31 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 2: series and information Overload, and the previous person set forth 32 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 2: the questions for me, and they'd written this article on 33 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 2: the discipline and I kind of promptly ignored it because 34 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 2: I had the word discipline in it. I since had 35 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 2: a look at it. And what this guy is doing 36 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 2: is he kind of organizes his week on ten day cycles. 37 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 2: And so how this works in terms of a ritual 38 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:17,359 Speaker 2: and rhythm is. 39 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: Ten days, ten business days. 40 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 2: Ten days, just ten days. So what he's trying to 41 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 2: do is desynchronized from the typical weeks. So he has 42 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: these ten day rhythms, which he calls a decade, because 43 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 2: previously a decade would refer to ten days, not ten years. 44 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 2: And he would start with a day of absorbing news 45 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 2: and like getting a sense of what's going on the world, 46 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 2: basically living like a normal person, and then he'd kind 47 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: of on that day map out what what what this 48 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 2: ten day rhythm would be like. And in the ten 49 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,679 Speaker 2: day rhythm, he would have different focuses for each day. 50 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 2: Can you believe it, I've forgotten his name, William van 51 00:02:52,120 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 2: Dervich in an event, so different focuses might be a 52 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: reading day, and that would be every spare moment you 53 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 2: spend reading. There's a different like a play day, a 54 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 2: make day, a create day. And I kind of like 55 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 2: that because I fall into this trap sometimes of being 56 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: very optimistic in the morning about what I can achieve, 57 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 2: and then getting through to four pm realizing I've only 58 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 2: done ten percent of my to do list, and I 59 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 2: curse my optimism, and I say, this is why, you know, 60 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 2: I shouldn't hope, and you know, embrace despair into the 61 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: night and then reset the cycle in again each day. 62 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: And what happens in the process is a lot of 63 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: really good things that I'd love to be doing, like learning. 64 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 2: I'm learning the tubbler at the moment, which is an 65 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 2: Indian hand drum. There's working on the next book. There's 66 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 2: a lot of bigger projects that don't necessarily fit in 67 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 2: you know, optimized day to day rhythms. Even if you're 68 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: to schedule time to work on it, it doesn't quite 69 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: fit as a conscious thing that flares up because I 70 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 2: always almost always seems to be other more important, salient, 71 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: emergent things to kind of tackle. But with this, with 72 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: this focus, it allows you to say, Okay, today's reading day, 73 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 2: every spare moment, I'm going to try to read, or 74 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 2: today's a make day, every spare moment I can try 75 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 2: to make. So what I've done is taken that inspiration. 76 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 2: But for me, I can't. I can't really fathom desynchronizing 77 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 2: from a seven day work week because there's just some 78 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 2: things that happen on Like I know, on Saturdays, I'm 79 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 2: probably going to be you know, there might be maybe 80 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 2: a social thing. I don't know. I know that on 81 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: Sundays there's house things to do, like you know, cleaning 82 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 2: up the house and groceries and things like that. I 83 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 2: know on Mondays it's kicking on. So I've got this. 84 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: I've got this thing, a seven day rhythm that I 85 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 2: love to play with, and I'm trying to link this 86 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: to the lunar cycle. So we've got the full moon 87 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 2: every twenty eight days or roughly, and so that's for wakes, 88 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 2: so seven So hear me. You guys can't see this 89 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 2: as you're listening, but Ama gives good back channeling of 90 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 2: with the face expressions and something. So, as I say, 91 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 2: in a cycle, it's great to see your reaction. So 92 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 2: so here's here's what it looks like. As you know, 93 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 2: I choose one word each year to serve as as 94 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 2: a fuzzy contextual beacon and to kind of do a 95 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 2: lot of heavy lifting amidst complexity. And my word this 96 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 2: year is barred. A bard is a entertainer, a trabadour, 97 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,799 Speaker 2: and I was trying to go bring more enchantments. Originally 98 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 2: it was about doing more gatherings, but COVID nineteen is 99 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: put a stop to dash that except for online mode. 100 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 2: But so here's what it looks like. I have different 101 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 2: modes that I cycle through. So on Mondays and on Saturdays, 102 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 2: I'm in Barred mode, and this is where I'm outward looking. 103 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 2: I'm more social On Mondays, I kind of do a 104 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 2: lot of online social stuff like that is the one 105 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 2: day that I do social media. I don't really like 106 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 2: social media, but if I'm going to be paying attention, 107 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 2: I'm finding I'm actually finding that there's a lot of 108 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 2: sense to be found from some folks on Twitter in 109 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 2: terms of a sense making thing. I'm finding it's useful 110 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 2: to dip in there, but I don't want to be 111 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 2: subsumed or drowned in it, so I try to curtail 112 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 2: it to the day. It's also Mondays out a day 113 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 2: I get on top of emails, I interact with folks 114 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 2: as socializing in Internet sense. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, I'm in 115 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 2: wizard mode, and that is where I embrace the disposition 116 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:37,359 Speaker 2: of someone who's prioritizing intellectual pursuits. And so this is 117 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 2: like deep work, but it's allowing myself to stay in 118 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 2: deep work beyond the deep work session, well not really beyond. 119 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 2: I'll do the deep work, but then I might have 120 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 2: queued up some I need to read some nonfiction things, 121 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 2: or I need to kind of do some more highlighting there. 122 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 2: So I'm kind of I'm staying in the zone as 123 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 2: much as possible. What it also means is if people 124 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: are trying to schedule social things or going out to 125 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 2: dinner on Tuesday, Wednesday, Third Days or whatever it is, 126 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 2: I'm probably more likely to summon the lofty, arrogant hermit 127 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: like wizard mode and decline Fridays and Sundays my druid 128 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 2: days and a driviid. And this is, for want of 129 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 2: a better term, Drew is someone who's very connected to nature, 130 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 2: very in tune into the rhythms and flows, and it's 131 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 2: probably more likely to emphasize maintenance activities instead of making 132 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: or socializing. So on Fridays, I'll make sure I get 133 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 2: some extended time in nature Kim, and I might go 134 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: for a hike or something. I'll also I would also, 135 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 2: you know, tie up blue sands and just do good restorative, 136 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 2: rejuvenative activities. And on Sunday that's kind of like a 137 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 2: home day, like where I'm just consciously at home, reading, 138 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 2: pottering away in the garden, cooking and doing things like that. 139 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 2: And I'm finding that, in addition to all the savvy 140 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 2: stuff when it comes to productivity and deep work, having 141 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 2: these thematic overlays to the week allows me to embrace 142 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 2: different dispositions. That means that when it comes to you know, 143 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: super deep work, yeah, Tuesdays on Thursday is going to happen. 144 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 2: When it comes to socializing, I can kind of say, 145 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 2: oh sorry, I can't do it today, but how about 146 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 2: we catch up on Saturday, or how about on Monday 147 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 2: and so on and so and then there's there's two 148 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 2: other elements coming back to the moon. On a new moon, 149 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 2: which is where it's the darkest moon, I go into 150 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 2: trickster mode, and that is a tricks to mythologically, is 151 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 2: someone who inverts paradigms and kind of plays with tries 152 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 2: to enter a meta rational or transrational perspective to ask 153 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 2: the questions are these things working? You know what's working? 154 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 2: What needs to be tweaked? How can we tweak err 155 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 2: in destiny? In fatim I don't believe in destiny and fate, 156 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 2: by the way. But and then full moon, I embrace 157 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 2: the lunatic element of things. That's where lunatic come from. 158 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 2: And that's where I go full mode, and that's where 159 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 2: I have permission to what anyone who's read Julia Cameron's 160 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 2: The Artist's Way would would know. As artist states, that's 161 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 2: where I just I simply play I do. I do 162 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 2: whatever comes to my mind, and so in this way, 163 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 2: I have a kind of version of the discipline that 164 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 2: doesn't feel like I'm being disciplined. It feels like I'm 165 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,839 Speaker 2: being playful. I'm role playing each day of the week 166 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 2: as an overlay to ensure that I'm seeing and tending 167 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 2: to all the elements of life. 168 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: That is it for today's show. If you want to 169 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: listen to the full episode, I link to that in 170 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: the show notes, so you might want to check that out. 171 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 2: And if you. 172 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: Are enjoying how I work, I would be so deeply 173 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: grateful if you just take five seconds out of your 174 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: date to leave a review in Apple Podcasts. It might 175 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: be a star rating or a few words, and by 176 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: doing so, it helps other people find the show, and 177 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: it also brings a huge smile to my face. So 178 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: thank you to the hundreds of people that have left reviews. 179 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: It is so deeply appreciate. 180 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 2: She hated. 181 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: So that is it for today's show, and I will 182 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: see you next time.