WEBVTT - The Forensic Race For Reed

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<v Speaker 1>Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty

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<v Speaker 1>verdicts against all three defendants.

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<v Speaker 2>It was absolute shambles, to tell you the truth, just

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely really pallant blood on his clothing the day after

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<v Speaker 2>the alleged.

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<v Speaker 3>At Tophelle mud Bank and if bit through a river.

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<v Speaker 1>Basically, I think most of the people are used to

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<v Speaker 1>me are good people.

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<v Speaker 3>I think a really important question we need to ask

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<v Speaker 3>is how many Indigenous prisoners in Australia are innocent.

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<v Speaker 2>This is Curtain, a podcast where we pull back the

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<v Speaker 2>blinds to shine a light on the darkest parts of

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<v Speaker 2>our justice system and ask who are the victims. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>Amy Maguire and.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate for the Foreign Prisoner

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<v Speaker 3>Support Service. And a warning, this series contains the names

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<v Speaker 3>of deceased peoples and has distressing content that might upset

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<v Speaker 3>some listeners.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Curtin the podcast. Now. At the very beginning

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<v Speaker 2>of this podcast series told you a little bit about

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<v Speaker 2>the case that got Martin interested in Kevin Henry's story,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was a case that he'd been working on

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<v Speaker 2>for over a decade and it wasn't in Australia. It

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<v Speaker 2>was overseas in America, and it revolved around an African

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<v Speaker 2>American man named Rodney Reed who was on death row

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<v Speaker 2>for the murder of his girlfriend. Now, Martin, there have

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<v Speaker 2>been updates in the case of Rodney Reid. Can you

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<v Speaker 2>tell us a little bit about what's currently happening over

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<v Speaker 2>in America.

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<v Speaker 1>So just quickly, before I get into the latest news

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<v Speaker 1>on Rodney's case, I'll just remind everyone a few of

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<v Speaker 1>the details about why Rodney is on death row in Texas.

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<v Speaker 1>He was convicted of the nineteen ninety six murder of

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<v Speaker 1>Stacy Stites in Texas. Rodney's an African American man and

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<v Speaker 1>he was in a relationship with Stacy at the time.

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<v Speaker 1>Just like Kevin, Rodney's always maintained his innocence. There's never

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<v Speaker 1>been any witnesses or forensic links to Rodney and the crime,

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<v Speaker 1>and just like Kevin, and all white jury found him guilty. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>it took the police quite a while to piece that

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<v Speaker 1>case together and to be able to point the finger

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<v Speaker 1>at Rodney because there was just no evidence. And although

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<v Speaker 1>Rodney was in a relationship with Stacy, she was actually

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<v Speaker 1>engaged to a local white police officer. And as we've mentioned,

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<v Speaker 1>before ten years after her death, that police officer was

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<v Speaker 1>found guilty of rape and kidnap. So this was a

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<v Speaker 1>dangerous individual and he was the first person placed under suspicion,

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<v Speaker 1>and too we've always believed committed the crime. And I

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<v Speaker 1>will get back to that a little bit more later on.

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<v Speaker 1>So twenty years later, Rodney is still in prison on

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<v Speaker 1>death row in Texas, and last week he was able

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<v Speaker 1>to have a new hearing. Now it's not a new trial,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not even an appeal. It's actually a hearing that

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<v Speaker 1>was sent back to the original court, the Basop County

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<v Speaker 1>Court where his first trial took place, and he was

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<v Speaker 1>found guilty despite there being no evidence by that or

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<v Speaker 1>white jury. And this new hearing is about working out

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<v Speaker 1>where Stacy Stites, as then fiance, was that night. The

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<v Speaker 1>reason this is taking place is because at the time

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<v Speaker 1>of the trial and on the stand, the police officer

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<v Speaker 1>her fiance, claimed he was with Stacy that whole night

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<v Speaker 1>and she must have been murdered on her way to

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<v Speaker 1>work the next morning, and a few of his friends

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<v Speaker 1>who were also police officers, gave the same testimony. But

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<v Speaker 1>then just recently a few years ago, in an interview

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<v Speaker 1>on CNN, one of his colleagues, who also was an

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<v Speaker 1>investigator on the case, said that the fiance wasn't with

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<v Speaker 1>Stacy that night. He was actually at a bar with

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<v Speaker 1>him drinking, and so he then said that he went

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<v Speaker 1>home around eleven o'clock, meaning it's not possible to say

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<v Speaker 1>that she couldn't have been killed during the night. His

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<v Speaker 1>claim the fiancee was she had to have been killed

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<v Speaker 1>in the morning on her way to work because she

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<v Speaker 1>was with him all that night. So this hearing was

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<v Speaker 1>purely to determine what the truth was. Was the this

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<v Speaker 1>investigator who had previously said that the fiancee was at

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<v Speaker 1>home all night telling the truth or was what he

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<v Speaker 1>really said on CNN in the interview that he was

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<v Speaker 1>at a bar watching baseball with him the truth? And

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<v Speaker 1>last week, in this new hearing, this investigator, a fellow

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<v Speaker 1>police officer, admitted it was true. The fiance was at

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<v Speaker 1>the bar, he was drinking heavily, he watched the baseball,

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<v Speaker 1>and then he went home at around eleven o'clock, meaning

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<v Speaker 1>that it was more than possible that Stacy Stites had

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<v Speaker 1>been murdered sometime that evening. And that's some of the

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<v Speaker 1>forensic detail I'll get too later as well. But what

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<v Speaker 1>this opened up is a new opportunity for Rodney that

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<v Speaker 1>clearly perjury had been committed on the stand, and that eyewitness,

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<v Speaker 1>that being Stacy's fiance, who was the one that was

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<v Speaker 1>staying Stacy couldn't have been killed overnight, was lying.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, Martin, there have been issues with the judges in

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<v Speaker 2>Rodney's case. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

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<v Speaker 1>And that's right, there has been some issues about the judges,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's quite unfortunate that I think people are under

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<v Speaker 1>an illusion that the justice system doesn't get anything wrong,

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<v Speaker 1>that the judges are always doing their best work, and

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<v Speaker 1>that things are kept fair well. If ever, there was

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<v Speaker 1>a case that shows that's not true. It's Rodney's. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>The reason that Rodney was not able to be granted

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<v Speaker 1>a new appeal and has only been granted this hearing

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<v Speaker 1>back at the original county court is because at the

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<v Speaker 1>start of the year and previously, this judge has also

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<v Speaker 1>made rulings against Rodney. They said that there wasn't enough

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<v Speaker 1>evidence for an appeal for Rodney. And why is there

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<v Speaker 1>a problem with this judge, Well, because she's a Republican

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<v Speaker 1>and so is her father, and her father was the

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<v Speaker 1>original judge at Rodney's original trial. So if she sent

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<v Speaker 1>this to appeal, and Rodney was proven innocent, as we

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<v Speaker 1>believe he is, it would show that her own father,

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<v Speaker 1>a judge, had made some serious mistakes at the original

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<v Speaker 1>trial that, again we also believe to be true. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>this is something that should never have happened. She should

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<v Speaker 1>have recused herself. She shouldn't be sitting in judgment of

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<v Speaker 1>her own father previous rulings. But that's not the worst

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<v Speaker 1>of it. So not only has Rodney faced that, but

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<v Speaker 1>this most current judge, who was sitting just last week

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<v Speaker 1>in this new hearing for Rodney, is a judge that

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<v Speaker 1>is quite well known in America because he sat on

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<v Speaker 1>a hearing involving another death row inmate. And that death

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<v Speaker 1>row inmate he was defended by a public defender, a

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<v Speaker 1>seventy two year old alcoholic lawyer who urinated himself and

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<v Speaker 1>fell asleep during the trial. Now, how on earth could

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<v Speaker 1>he properly defend a man when he was clearly drunk

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<v Speaker 1>and asleep. When this was brought to the judge's attention,

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<v Speaker 1>this lawyer said that he was bored by the trial.

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<v Speaker 1>Remembering this man, another black man, was on trial for

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<v Speaker 1>his life, and the judge ruled that that was acceptable

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<v Speaker 1>and that this man was receiving a proper and fair defense.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the judge that is now ruling in Rodney's case. So,

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<v Speaker 1>as you can see, Rodney has had a rough run

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<v Speaker 1>with judges. He's had a father and daughter team working

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<v Speaker 1>against him, and he's had a judge who thinks that

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<v Speaker 1>a person who is drunk, asleep and can't even control

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<v Speaker 1>their bladder is somehow effective counsel in a capital murder case.

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<v Speaker 1>This is what nightmares are made of. And to think

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<v Speaker 1>that this doesn't happen. Rodney Reid's case proves that it does.

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<v Speaker 1>And you have to remember, despite there being no evidence,

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<v Speaker 1>he's sat on death row for more than twenty years

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<v Speaker 1>and he's come within hours of being executed.

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<v Speaker 2>Now there are similarities, aren't there, between Rodney Reid and

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<v Speaker 2>Kevin Henry's case. Now, in Kevin's case, new forensic analysis

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<v Speaker 2>has completely contradicted the forensics given at Kevin's trial, and

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<v Speaker 2>it seems to be the same in Rodney Reid's case,

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<v Speaker 2>hasn't it, Martin? Can you take us through a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit of that in the similarities between Kevin's case.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, having said what I previously said about the judge

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<v Speaker 1>who is currently sitting hearing this case at the moment

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<v Speaker 1>in Bathrop County, who heard four days of testimony last

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<v Speaker 1>week and has said he'll come back with a ruling

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<v Speaker 1>in the next six to eight weeks, he did actually

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<v Speaker 1>allow some things that were very positive for Rodney. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think some of the reason why that happened is

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<v Speaker 1>because it's just so obvious. And this goes to the

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<v Speaker 1>issue of forensics and forensics and race. In both Kevin

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<v Speaker 1>and Rodney's cases, the forensics never pointed to either Kevin

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<v Speaker 1>or Rodney, and yet they were found guilty. Neither Rodney

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<v Speaker 1>nor Kevin's DNA was linked to a murder. Both Rodney

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<v Speaker 1>and Kevin were found guilty of rape, but neither woman

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<v Speaker 1>had been raped. In fact, neither woman showed any sign

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<v Speaker 1>of having sexual intercourse. You also have to remember no

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<v Speaker 1>witnesses ever said that this had taken place, and there

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<v Speaker 1>weren't any of the forensic markers you would look for,

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<v Speaker 1>so immediately there is a problem. And one thing I

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<v Speaker 1>want to say about this is that this is very

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<v Speaker 1>very common in cases where where a black man is

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<v Speaker 1>facing a murder charge, and that is that a rape

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<v Speaker 1>charge is often added. Now why is it added despite

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<v Speaker 1>in these two cases there being absolutely no evidence that

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<v Speaker 1>sexual intercourse took place, let alone a rape. My take

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<v Speaker 1>is this, it's because it makes the individual look worse

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<v Speaker 1>to the jury. It makes them look like they're more

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<v Speaker 1>of a monster. It means that, despite the prosecution's case

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<v Speaker 1>clearly being very weak, it gives them a great deal

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<v Speaker 1>more mud they can throw at both Kevin and Rodney

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<v Speaker 1>and any individual facing a rape charge despite there being

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<v Speaker 1>no evidence. It means that when they address the jury

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<v Speaker 1>in both the opening and closing of the trial, they

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<v Speaker 1>can talk about the defendant having raped the women that

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<v Speaker 1>had died, and obviously this makes the man, the black man,

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<v Speaker 1>look much worse. And we also have to remember that

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<v Speaker 1>these were both in Rodney's case and Kevin's case or

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<v Speaker 1>white juries. We have to remember that Kevin's case took

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<v Speaker 1>place in the early nineties in rural Queensland and Rodney's

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<v Speaker 1>case took place at the same time in rural Texas.

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<v Speaker 1>These places are known for their racism. These places are

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<v Speaker 1>known for that fear of black men roaming the streets.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you can throw this mud at these two

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<v Speaker 1>men despite there being absolutely no evidence of them even

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<v Speaker 1>being there, let alone sexual intercourse or rape having taken place.

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<v Speaker 1>Then I think it's part of what helps convict innocent men.

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<v Speaker 1>Now if we go further into the forensics. As I

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<v Speaker 1>said earlier, it was possible for Stacey Stites to have

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<v Speaker 1>died earlier in the night because clearly her fiance, the

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<v Speaker 1>police officer now in jail for kidnap and rape, lied

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<v Speaker 1>on the stand. And so in Rodney's case, a new

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<v Speaker 1>forensic pathologist has been brought on board, just as we've

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<v Speaker 1>done with Kevin's case. But in Rodney's case, this is

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<v Speaker 1>no ordinary forensic pathologist. His name is Michael Baden. He's

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<v Speaker 1>perhaps the most famous forensic pathologist on earth. He's eighty

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<v Speaker 1>three years old and has more experience than any other

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<v Speaker 1>pathologist I'm aware of. He worked on the trial of

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<v Speaker 1>OJ Simpson. He was brought in by a United States

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<v Speaker 1>select committee to investigate the assassinations of JFK and Martin

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<v Speaker 1>Luther King. He's performed the autopsies on many famous people

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<v Speaker 1>right around the world, from royalty to government officials to

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<v Speaker 1>famous people like the actor John Belushi and possibly most importantly,

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<v Speaker 1>he worked on the case of Medgar Evers. Medgar Evers

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<v Speaker 1>was a civil rights leader in the South in the

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<v Speaker 1>sixties in the United States, and he was shot in

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<v Speaker 1>the back by a klansman. He was coming home to

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<v Speaker 1>his young family and his wife and he was murdered

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<v Speaker 1>by that clansman in his driveway. Now, despite so much

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<v Speaker 1>evidence pointing to this clansman's guilt, an all white jury

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<v Speaker 1>found him not guilty. But Michael Baden, the forensic pathologist

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<v Speaker 1>now working for Rodney Reid, helped pursue the case for

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<v Speaker 1>thirty years and he developed the forensic techniques to prove

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<v Speaker 1>beyond any possible doubt that this klansman had murdered the

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<v Speaker 1>famous Medgar Evers, the great civil rights leader, and the

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<v Speaker 1>klansman was finally found guilty more than thirty years later.

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<v Speaker 1>So Michael Baden has now looked at the forensics of

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<v Speaker 1>Rodney's case, and imagine this. He's proven that Stacy Stites

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<v Speaker 1>did die long before she went to work. She died

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<v Speaker 1>roughly thirty minutes after her fiance, the policeman, came home

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<v Speaker 1>drunk from watching the baseball. He proved this using techniques

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<v Speaker 1>that look at both rigor mortis, that is the stiffening

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<v Speaker 1>and then relaxing of the muscles post death, and also

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<v Speaker 1>what's known as lividity, and that's the way the blood

0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:18.399
<v Speaker 1>flows and pulls in the body after death. And it

0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.919
<v Speaker 1>helps to show any marks on the body where someone

0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:28.479
<v Speaker 1>may have been dragged, manhandled, maybe they'd been put into

0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:35.320
<v Speaker 1>a car boot. And in Rodney's case, what the lividity

0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:41.280
<v Speaker 1>shows is something we'd long suspected that the fiancee had

0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:47.600
<v Speaker 1>put Stacy Stynes in the footwell of his car, and

0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:51.400
<v Speaker 1>the lividity, the pulling of the blood. These tests show

0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:55.840
<v Speaker 1>the way her body was contorted to fit in a footwell,

0:17:56.320 --> 0:18:01.520
<v Speaker 1>exactly the shape and size of the small truck that

0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:06.440
<v Speaker 1>this police officer the fiance owned. Now here's another thing.

0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:12.440
<v Speaker 1>That investigator that was there that night, who perjured himself

0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:17.600
<v Speaker 1>and originally said that the fiance was at home, he

0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:21.720
<v Speaker 1>helped the fiance get that truck back the next day.

0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:26.520
<v Speaker 1>It was sold the day of Stacy Stites's death to

0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:31.359
<v Speaker 1>a wrecker and was crushed, so no evidence was able

0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:36.439
<v Speaker 1>to be collected. And as we've also previously spoken about,

0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:42.359
<v Speaker 1>the police never went into Stacy Stites's home and looked

0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:45.240
<v Speaker 1>to see if she'd been killed in her own home

0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:50.400
<v Speaker 1>where she was living with this fiancee who came home drunk. Clearly,

0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:55.160
<v Speaker 1>that's what the timeline now shows, and it further shows

0:18:55.320 --> 0:19:00.280
<v Speaker 1>Rodney couldn't have committed the crime. Why because that time

0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:06.000
<v Speaker 1>of death, Rodney was miles and miles away from the location,

0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:10.879
<v Speaker 1>more than one hundred and twenty miles. So, in both

0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:14.879
<v Speaker 1>Kevin's case and Rodney's case, not only do we have

0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:18.800
<v Speaker 1>forensic evidence that shows at the very beginning that was

0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:22.800
<v Speaker 1>conducted very early on in the case by the police,

0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:27.320
<v Speaker 1>that they didn't commit this crime, the new evidence we've

0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:31.520
<v Speaker 1>got in both Rodney's case and Kevin's case not only

0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:36.760
<v Speaker 1>confirms that it helps further prove their innocence and show

0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:41.240
<v Speaker 1>that their alibis match, and that it was not just unlikely,

0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:45.440
<v Speaker 1>but impossible for Kevin and Rodney to have committed these

0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:49.800
<v Speaker 1>crimes because they were nowhere near where these crimes took

0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:54.359
<v Speaker 1>place at the time the crimes took place, and the

0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:58.560
<v Speaker 1>murders didn't take place the way the police said they did.

0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.560
<v Speaker 1>It's what the original forensic showed. And so why does

0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:09.120
<v Speaker 1>this happen? Well, my opinion is this the police picked

0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:13.960
<v Speaker 1>their man for a murder very early on. With both

0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:18.040
<v Speaker 1>Kevin and Rodney, they were selected early because they were

0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:23.560
<v Speaker 1>black men who were known to the victim. In Kevin's case,

0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:29.080
<v Speaker 1>he barely knew Linda, he'd only met her once or twice.

0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:32.840
<v Speaker 1>But as soon as they were picked up, the forensic

0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:37.560
<v Speaker 1>pathologists working on these cases, whose work has now been

0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:44.040
<v Speaker 1>completely discredited, tried to link the death in some way

0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:48.320
<v Speaker 1>that would least help the police show that Kevin and

0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:53.359
<v Speaker 1>Rodney were involved. They failed to do that. They tried

0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:57.520
<v Speaker 1>their best to show that Linda had been put in

0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:02.240
<v Speaker 1>on the Tanuba house side of the river when she hadn't,

0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:07.360
<v Speaker 1>And in Rodney's case, they tried to show that Stacy

0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:10.119
<v Speaker 1>Styez died in the morning on her way to work

0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:14.960
<v Speaker 1>when she hadn't. And they did this to frame both

0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:20.400
<v Speaker 1>Kevin and Rodney, and the new forensics, done with modern

0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:24.840
<v Speaker 1>technology by independent people who were some of the best

0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:30.640
<v Speaker 1>forensic pathologists in the world, clear Kevin and Rodney of

0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:37.919
<v Speaker 1>any involvement. Why is it that two black men with

0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:43.080
<v Speaker 1>absolutely no forensic connection to these cases have to wait

0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:47.240
<v Speaker 1>a quarter of a century for the truth to come out.

0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:52.560
<v Speaker 1>Why is it when the forensics are done when these

0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:57.159
<v Speaker 1>women die, that it's done so appallingly. Don't the women

0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:01.800
<v Speaker 1>Stacy and Linda deserve justice? Shouldn't every effort have been

0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:06.040
<v Speaker 1>made to find out who really killed them, who committed

0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:09.920
<v Speaker 1>these crimes, because we know Rodney and Kevin didn't do it,

0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:17.960
<v Speaker 1>which means the real killers have been walking the streets well. Thankfully,

0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:22.719
<v Speaker 1>in Rodney's case, the man we believe committed the crime

0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:29.040
<v Speaker 1>her fiance, a police officer, ten years later, was finally caught.

0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:33.800
<v Speaker 1>That's the good news. The bad news is it took

0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:41.359
<v Speaker 1>him raping another woman and kidnapping another woman to be caught.

0:22:42.560 --> 0:22:46.040
<v Speaker 1>This time. They couldn't throw the book at Rodney because

0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:48.800
<v Speaker 1>Rodney was in prison for a crime they'd long since

0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:53.280
<v Speaker 1>fitted him up. But despite this, Rodney is still in

0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:56.359
<v Speaker 1>jail and the state of Texas is still trying to

0:22:56.440 --> 0:23:00.480
<v Speaker 1>execute him. But what we're hoping is now that this

0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:05.879
<v Speaker 1>new evidence has come forward that the investigator who originally

0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:10.520
<v Speaker 1>lied has admitted no, the fiance was drinking and went

0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:14.280
<v Speaker 1>home drunk after watching the baseball and the new forensic

0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:19.800
<v Speaker 1>evidence showing that Stacy was killed not long after he

0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:25.080
<v Speaker 1>would have arrived home and would have been placed in

0:23:25.119 --> 0:23:29.880
<v Speaker 1>the footwell of his small track that this will finally

0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:34.000
<v Speaker 1>allow for the release of Rodney. And in Kevin's case,

0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:38.359
<v Speaker 1>this new forensic evidence just adds to all of the

0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:43.760
<v Speaker 1>evidence that shows Kevin's absolute innocence, But it continues to

0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:47.960
<v Speaker 1>remain a problem, a huge problem. Here we have two

0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:51.960
<v Speaker 1>black men who have lost their lives to the prison system,

0:23:52.920 --> 0:23:57.679
<v Speaker 1>nearly fifty years in total between the two because the

0:23:57.680 --> 0:24:02.960
<v Speaker 1>forensics was done so appallingly, two women whose families have

0:24:03.119 --> 0:24:06.960
<v Speaker 1>not known the truth, two women whose families have never

0:24:07.040 --> 0:24:11.000
<v Speaker 1>believed the police got the right person. What does that

0:24:11.200 --> 0:24:15.840
<v Speaker 1>tell you? When Linda's family has never believed that the

0:24:15.960 --> 0:24:20.320
<v Speaker 1>right man was caught, do they get justice? Does Linda

0:24:20.359 --> 0:24:24.280
<v Speaker 1>get justice? And why is Kevin? And why is Linda's

0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:30.000
<v Speaker 1>family paying for what the police and sloppy forensic work

0:24:30.720 --> 0:24:35.160
<v Speaker 1>is doing. But you might think this only happens in America.

0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:38.720
<v Speaker 1>We see a lot about black lives matter in America,

0:24:38.920 --> 0:24:42.200
<v Speaker 1>and we see a lot on TV about death row

0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:48.080
<v Speaker 1>cases and exonerations. But this is happening in Australia too,

0:24:48.720 --> 0:24:50.480
<v Speaker 1>and it's about to be exposed.

0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:53.399
<v Speaker 2>And just to bring it back to Australia, it's a

0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:56.399
<v Speaker 2>case you probably haven't heard of, but very similar to

0:24:56.440 --> 0:25:00.399
<v Speaker 2>both the cases of Kevin Henry and Rodney Reid happening

0:25:00.480 --> 0:25:04.000
<v Speaker 2>down in South Australia on Monday, and it revolves around

0:25:04.040 --> 0:25:07.400
<v Speaker 2>an Aboriginal man named Derek Bromley who's been locked up

0:25:07.520 --> 0:25:10.639
<v Speaker 2>for thirty four years for a crime that he says

0:25:10.720 --> 0:25:13.480
<v Speaker 2>he did not do, and a lot of his appeal

0:25:13.760 --> 0:25:18.439
<v Speaker 2>is based around the forensics at his trial, particularly centered

0:25:18.480 --> 0:25:24.280
<v Speaker 2>around a very controversial forensic pathologist who didn't have formal

0:25:24.359 --> 0:25:28.399
<v Speaker 2>qualifications at the time, and so that appeal will be

0:25:28.440 --> 0:25:31.880
<v Speaker 2>going on on Monday. So watch out for that appeal

0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:36.240
<v Speaker 2>because if Derek Bromley is exonerated next week, he'll be

0:25:36.280 --> 0:25:40.720
<v Speaker 2>the longest serving exonerated prisoner in Australia's history. That was

0:25:40.760 --> 0:25:43.080
<v Speaker 2>episode forty two of Curtain