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Speaker 1: Issues around problem tenants in public housing. It's something that's

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Speaker 1: been raised on this show literally for years. The Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory government this morning's saying they're going to be taking

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Speaker 1: action to tackle anti social behavior and clawback thirty nine

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Speaker 1: million dollars in rent arears by introducing public housing reform

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Speaker 1: to the Parliament this week. The Minister for Housing, Local

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Speaker 1: Government and Community Development as well as Health, Steve Edgington,

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Speaker 1: joins me on the line. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Steve, Good morning Cody, Good morning to the listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now what exactly are these changes going to include when

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Speaker 1: we talk about public housing reform, Well.

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Speaker 2: Codie, as we said, we do need to take some

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Speaker 2: real positive action to claw back the amount of andy

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Speaker 2: social behavior going on in public housing, not only here

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Speaker 2: in the Greater Darwin area, but right across the Northern

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Speaker 2: Territory including Catherine Tennant Creek and Alice Springs and of

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Speaker 2: course in remote areas as well. But also what we've

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Speaker 2: seen over the last three to four years is the

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Speaker 2: amount of rental arrears now has reached a staggering thirty

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Speaker 2: nine million dollars. So we do need to take some

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Speaker 2: real positive action. So what we're focused on Katie is

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Speaker 2: looking at strengthening the policy to fast track evictions where necessary.

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Speaker 2: We will be doing a full review of the visitor management,

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Speaker 2: tenancy management, and also the current red card policy which

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Speaker 2: is often talked about. We do need to have a

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Speaker 2: very close look at debt reform and also how we

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Speaker 2: particularly reinvigorate that debt management policy. But also we do

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Speaker 2: want to have a very close look at the Housing

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Speaker 2: Act to ensure that public housing safety officers, to ensure

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Speaker 2: that that law is not only there to help public

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Speaker 2: housing safety officers, but the laws are there to ensure

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Speaker 2: that the chief execut even the staff working in the

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Speaker 2: department to have the powers they need to get on

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Speaker 2: with the job.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do they feel at the moment like their

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Speaker 1: hands are tied, like people are behaving badly, not adhering

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Speaker 1: to what's expected of their leases, and they can't really

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Speaker 1: do anything.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think what we've seen over the last eight years, Katie,

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Speaker 2: not only when it comes to dealing with crime, but

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Speaker 2: what we've seen from the labor government is a real

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Speaker 2: hands off approach. What we need to ensure is that

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Speaker 2: there's no more slaps on the wristso to speak. We

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Speaker 2: need to get on top of this issue because we

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Speaker 2: get many, many reports from people living in those neighborhoods

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Speaker 2: that are being subject to whether it's loud music, whether

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Speaker 2: it's fighting, screaming, alcohol related is years right through all

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Speaker 2: hours of the night. This is impacting on people going

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Speaker 2: to work, and it's impacting on kids going to school.

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Speaker 2: People they need to feel safe and secure in their neighborhoods.

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Speaker 1: So Steve, in terms of these potential changes, in some instances,

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Speaker 1: we've been contacted by people who say they've made so

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Speaker 1: many complaints they've lost count and nothing ever eventuates. So

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Speaker 1: what exactly is going to change and how can you

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Speaker 1: guarantee it's going to make a difference for somebody who

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Speaker 1: lives next door to a problem tenant.

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Speaker 2: Well, let me give you one example, Cadie, and that

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Speaker 2: I've been presented with a whole lot of information on

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Speaker 2: matters that have previously caused a number of concerns in

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Speaker 2: neighborhoods around the territory. I'll give you one example. One

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Speaker 2: particular tendency, there was sixty two red card demerit points,

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Speaker 2: but rather than deal with that, the former Labor government

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Speaker 2: moved them into a new three bedroom house and since

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Speaker 2: then there's been one hundred and fifty eight to further

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Speaker 2: reports of andy social behavior at that particular tenancy. So

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Speaker 2: we need to act. We need to ensure that our

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Speaker 2: staff have the backing, and I back our staff and

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Speaker 2: I want to give them the confidence of our government

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Speaker 2: that when they do act, they have our full support.

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Speaker 1: So it's unbelievable. Sixty two red card demerits and then

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Speaker 1: they get moved into another house, a three bedroom house,

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Speaker 1: and there's what one hundred and fifty odd complaints made

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Speaker 1: about them, Like that is insane.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's incredible, Katie. And this is just one example.

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Speaker 2: I've got other examples that are being presented to me

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Speaker 2: where a particular house I believe was moved from a

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Speaker 2: problem tenancy rather than dealing with the tenancy. I have

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Speaker 2: one example where a tenant was moved three times, with

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Speaker 2: taxpayers footing the bill of around about eighty three thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars to help facilitate those transfers. We can't be transferring

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Speaker 2: problem tenants to other areas. What we need to do

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Speaker 2: is tackle those issues head on and deal with the

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Speaker 2: actual issue. If it needs to be an eviction, we

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Speaker 2: need to go down that pathway.

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Speaker 1: Look, it makes you blood boy thinking that that much

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Speaker 1: of taxpayers money has been wasted to move somebody who's

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Speaker 1: a problem tenant around. I mean the other side of

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Speaker 1: this though, is if you move somebody out, if they

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Speaker 1: get kicked out, where are they going to go? And

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Speaker 1: does that then cause an issue where you've got antisocial

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Speaker 1: behavior on the streets? What is going to happen.

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Speaker 2: Look, it's a real concern. But what we need to

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Speaker 2: do is we need to draw the line somewhere and

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Speaker 2: at this stage, what we want to do is make

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Speaker 2: sure that eviction obviously is the last resort, but we

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Speaker 2: can't have you incidents of sixty two red cards. What

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Speaker 2: we want to do is ensure that there's an early

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Speaker 2: intervention and support for tenancies that are at risk. We're

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Speaker 2: going to follow that process to ensure that tenants get

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Speaker 2: the full support that they need. We certainly don't want

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Speaker 2: to be throwing people vulnerable people out on the street.

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Speaker 2: We know that there's domestic violence victims, we know that

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Speaker 2: there's people with other issues that makes them vulnerable. We

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Speaker 2: don't want to be throwing them out on the street.

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Speaker 2: But we have to draw the line.

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Speaker 1: Somewhere, Minister, in terms of the rental areas. Thirty nine

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Speaker 1: million dollars is the figure which you've outlined over what

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Speaker 1: period of time was that accumulated?

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Speaker 2: Well, as I said, you've just got to go back

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Speaker 2: to twenty twenty one, the previous cabinet waived a debt

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Speaker 2: of sixty nine point seventy one million dollars. So that

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Speaker 2: was just under four years ago that a debt of

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Speaker 2: sixty nine million dollars was waived. So at the moment

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Speaker 2: that's already accrued up to thirty nine million dollars of

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Speaker 2: outstanding rent.

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Speaker 1: So in those few years we've now gone back up

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Speaker 1: to thirty nine million dollars in rental areas. Is that

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Speaker 1: just in urban housing or remote as well?

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Speaker 2: That at the moment, I think that figure in front

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Speaker 2: of me is just urban housing. And what we've seen

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Speaker 2: through that thirty nine million dollars is that just in

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Speaker 2: urban For example, there's one four hundred and twenty two

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Speaker 2: tenancies that have crude substantial debt. Those one four hundred

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Speaker 2: and twenty two tenancies in the urban areas of the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory have accumulated debts of over ten thousand dollars.

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Speaker 2: So this is the situation that we've been left with

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Speaker 2: by labor.

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Speaker 1: But like, how are we not in a situation and

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm going like, let's assume that you know,

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Speaker 1: whether people have got jobs or they don't have jobs,

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Speaker 1: and they are you know, they're in public housing because

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Speaker 1: they are in a difficult situation. I mean, how are

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Speaker 1: we not able to ensure that that gets paid, that

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Speaker 1: their rent gets paid, you know, at the same time

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Speaker 1: that they're buying groceries, like that money is not going

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Speaker 1: to be wasted and that it actually goes to rent.

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Speaker 1: Because let's be really blunt about it as well, in

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Speaker 1: a lot of cases, people aren't paying like the full

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Speaker 1: you know, the full rental market that ordinarily like that

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Speaker 1: ordinary people would be on the private market. They're already

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Speaker 1: getting subsidized, aren't they.

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Speaker 2: Well, exactly, there's a whole range of concessions in place

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Speaker 2: for people living in public housing. But just one of

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Speaker 2: the examples that I've been provided with Codie is when

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Speaker 2: people sign up to a tenancy in public housing, there's

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Speaker 2: an opportunity for people to work with SENALINK and have

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Speaker 2: an automatic deduction coming out of their SENALINK payment to

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Speaker 2: pay for their rent. We have many examples of where

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Speaker 2: people have signed up to pay their rent, coming straight

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Speaker 2: out a Centerlink. But once that payment agreement is in place,

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Speaker 2: we've got many examples of tenants going into Cenlink within

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Speaker 2: days to cancel that payment. What it's actually doing is

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Speaker 2: creating the run around for housing staff to try and

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Speaker 2: chase these people down and get them to sign up

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Speaker 2: to an agreement to pay. The whole system needs to

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Speaker 2: be looked at, and we want to work with the

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Speaker 2: federal government to ensure that there's systems in place to

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Speaker 2: ensure that when people sign up to make a payment

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Speaker 2: from their rent that they can't go in and canceled

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Speaker 2: that the day after. All it's doing is creating the

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Speaker 2: run around for the staff across the board. Yep.

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Speaker 1: So Steve, where to with this thirty nine million dollars

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Speaker 1: in rental areas? I mean, does it just need to

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Speaker 1: be wiped wiped off now?

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Speaker 2: Well? No, Well we'll be pursuing as much of that

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Speaker 2: as possible. That there may be rent that can't be recovered,

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Speaker 2: but what we want to do is make sure that

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Speaker 2: tenants are held accountable and we make sure that we

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Speaker 2: make it very clear what the government's expectations is when

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Speaker 2: it comes to paying rent. We need to follow through

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Speaker 2: with this and the staff are going to be back

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Speaker 2: to go out and collect that rent.

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Speaker 1: If you have just joined us. We are speaking to

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Speaker 1: Minister Steve Edgington. He has got the Housing portfolio as

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Speaker 1: well as Health minister. How quickly are these changes going

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Speaker 1: to come into place? When we look at the housing

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Speaker 1: issues that we've got in the Northern Territory right.

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Speaker 2: Now, right well over the next six months, we can

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Speaker 2: certainly take action in regard to strengthening policy to fast evictions,

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Speaker 2: but there will be need to look at the Housing Act.

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Speaker 2: At the moment, the pathway to eviction involves quite a

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Speaker 2: convolute of approach, not only through the Department, through the CEO,

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Speaker 2: but there's an appeals mechanism that goes to What we

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Speaker 2: need to do is have a look at that whole

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Speaker 2: process to see whether that can be streamlined. But also

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Speaker 2: when it comes to the red card policy, we can

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Speaker 2: strengthen that. Now we can make sure that we're out

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Speaker 2: talking to people about not only dealing with the rent,

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Speaker 2: but ensuring that people are familiar with the requirements of

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Speaker 2: their tenancy agreement and that means dealing with excessive rent debts.

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Speaker 2: You know, we untidy are This is a common complaint

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Speaker 2: that we hear about property damage, we hear about anti

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Speaker 2: social behavior. Our staff will be out and about talking

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Speaker 2: to those tenants dealing with the red policy. But also

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Speaker 2: there's an opportunity to put tenants on what's called an

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Speaker 2: Acceptable Behavior Agreement. That's basically a warning system and an

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Speaker 2: agreement where tenants need to work with the department to

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Speaker 2: ensure they're doing the right thing.

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Speaker 1: Minister, a couple of really quick ones. Can you tell

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Speaker 1: us how many people are on the waiting list in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory at the moment to get public housing.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't have the numbers, Katie, but what I

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Speaker 2: can tell you is that the wait list at the

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Speaker 2: moment is anywhere between eight to ten years wow, right

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Speaker 2: across the Northern Territory. So that's a big indication that

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Speaker 2: we have not only a high number of people on

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Speaker 2: the wait list, but to get a public house you

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Speaker 2: need to be waiting eight to ten years. What we

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Speaker 2: can't do is have tenants in houses that are doing

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Speaker 2: the wrong thing when there's other tenants that are waiting

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Speaker 2: to have a roof over your head.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's move along. There is quite a bit

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Speaker 1: for us to cover off this morning. I know you'll

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Speaker 1: press for time because Parliament is obviously sitting in the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory. But lating to the show yesterday we received

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Speaker 1: the Auditor Generals. It was tabled to the Legislative Assembly

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Speaker 1: on three reviews conducted under the Public Information Act. One

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Speaker 1: of those incidents related to your social media posts about

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Speaker 1: the cost of implementing new digital health system, the new

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Speaker 1: digital health system known as ACACIA. It featured Opposition leader

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Speaker 1: Selena Rubo, the former Health Minister, with text saying sixty

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Speaker 1: one million dollar budget a secret exposed or secret documents

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Speaker 1: revealed now. The Order to General found the post breached

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Speaker 1: the Public Information Act by failing to provide a source

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Speaker 1: for the facts and omitting context. Now. According to that report,

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Speaker 1: the social media post did not tell the whole story

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Speaker 1: and implied wrong or dishonest behavior by the leader of

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Speaker 1: the Opposition in her capacity as the former Minister for Health.

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Speaker 1: Minister Edgington. Did you ask your staff to create that

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Speaker 1: post or how did it come about?

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Speaker 2: I created the post my self. There was a social

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Speaker 2: media tile that I included in my post. But what

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Speaker 2: I did include in that post was factual information. Which

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Speaker 2: was detailed in my media release that same day. What

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Speaker 2: it did as the Order to General said that the

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Speaker 2: sixty one million dollar over over budget wasn't referenced well.

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Speaker 2: The information that I got directly was from the Health

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Speaker 2: Department themselves. So I'm not sure whether he wants me

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Speaker 2: to put a footnote on my social media post. But

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Speaker 2: what I can confirm is that the sixty one million

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Speaker 2: dollar overspend on the Acacia system was never made public

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Speaker 2: by the Labor government and so that.

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Speaker 1: Part of it wasn't wrong obviously what you'd put on there,

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Speaker 1: and I note that that is said in the report

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Speaker 1: as well. But Minister, I mean, is it an appropriate

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Speaker 1: use of a minister's time to be making a social

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Speaker 1: media tile to say that do you think well?

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Speaker 2: The social media tile, as I said, was included in

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Speaker 2: the Facebook post. It's very important in my role as

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Speaker 2: a minister and also as the Member for Berkley to

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Speaker 2: keep my constituents informed of the work that I'm doing.

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Speaker 2: This is relevant information that the public needs to know.

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Speaker 2: It is in the public interest for people to have

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Speaker 2: factual information about what's going on in government. This is

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Speaker 2: about us being open and transparent and exposing where Labour

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Speaker 2: failed to keep the public informed and actually hid the

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Speaker 2: cost of sixty one million dollars from the public.

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Speaker 1: I will say that it's obviously not only your office,

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Speaker 1: it was in the spotlight with this the Opposition's office

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Speaker 1: also in the sights of the Order to General for

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Speaker 1: making a poster of you superimposed onto a rainbow flag.

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Speaker 1: The Order to General said the poster falls outside the

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Speaker 1: scope of public information laws. Though do you think that

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Speaker 1: that needs to be pursued further?

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Speaker 2: Well, the Order to General has made their finding. But

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Speaker 2: what I've said about my post is that mine was factual.

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Speaker 2: Mine was a use of my time to inform the

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Speaker 2: p public. Clearly, what Labor did putting posters up in

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Speaker 2: men's toilets in public in a public place here in

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Speaker 2: Parliament House shows that they're busy playing politics, playing political games,

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Speaker 2: rather than getting on with the job of representing these

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Speaker 2: I mean, is yours much different?

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Speaker 1: Though? I get what you're saying that obviously the figure

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Speaker 1: that you've included is real, but is yours much of

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Speaker 1: a better use of time? I think I just sort

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Speaker 1: of feel like people are a bit kind of over

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Speaker 1: this stuff.

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Speaker 2: Well exactly, and I think you know, obviously I stand

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Speaker 2: by what I did. I don't shy away from putting

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Speaker 2: that information out in public. I believe it's a good

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Speaker 2: use of my time putting up posters. Clearly the Opposition

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Speaker 2: leader has come out and acknowledged that that happened. Look,

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Speaker 2: there's better things for the Opposition to be doing at

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Speaker 2: the moment rather than putting posters up around Parliament.

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Speaker 1: And look, I think people will also feel like there's

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Speaker 1: probably better things for the Health Minister to be doing

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Speaker 1: as well than making Facebook posts about the Health minister.

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Speaker 1: But do you know what our listeners and the public

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Speaker 1: will decide that for themselves. Because I want to ask

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Speaker 1: you some questions about some health issues. Just very quickly.

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Speaker 1: I've been contacted by a mum who's due to give

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Speaker 1: birth in August. She's wondering what birth and post natal

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Speaker 1: KIRA is going to look like for her as she

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Speaker 1: is due to pay some pretty large fees soon. What

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Speaker 1: is it going to look like for this expectant mum

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Speaker 1: who's due in.

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Speaker 2: August, well due in August. What we do know is

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Speaker 2: that Healthscope have decided and made a decision to close

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Speaker 2: their services on June the sixth, So originally one hundred

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Speaker 2: and fourteen expectant mothers were going to be affected by

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Speaker 2: the decision. But what we do know by them extending

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Speaker 2: to June is that forty five families will be affected

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Speaker 2: by that closure at the Royal Darwen Hospital. We have

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Speaker 2: prepared for additional birthing at the World Hospital and any

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Speaker 2: expectant mother can expect that will provide the best possible

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Speaker 2: service in the Royal daren Hospital, but they've been doing

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Speaker 2: that for years. Our midwives and obstetricians are doing a

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Speaker 2: fantastic job. But if that mother has private care, then

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Speaker 2: what we will be doing is working with that private

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Speaker 2: health provider to ensure that that mother has proper antiinatal

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Speaker 2: care and there's an opportunity to spend a couple of

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Speaker 2: days in a Yeah, look she.

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Speaker 1: Does, and I know that there's other mums that do

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Speaker 1: as well. And in fact, there's actually a whole forum

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Speaker 1: of mums on social media at the moment that are

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Speaker 1: due later in the year that do have that private

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Speaker 1: health cover that are wondering what's next for them. How

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Speaker 1: is it going to be communicated with those expectant mums

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Speaker 1: that do have private health I mean, is that something

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Speaker 1: that they're obstetrician, Like, where's that process going to kind

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Speaker 1: of kick in? I guess if they are looked after

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Speaker 1: privately through their obstetrician, but they are now going to

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Speaker 1: need to give birth at the public hospital.

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Speaker 2: Look, I believe those communications have been happening between the

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Speaker 2: dal And Private Hospital and now the Royal Darwen Hospital.

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Speaker 2: So we have set up a person of contact. I

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Speaker 2: don't have the number in front of me, but we

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Speaker 2: only have a contact. We certainly have a contact within

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Speaker 2: the Health department to ensure that we're providing accurate information

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Speaker 2: to expectant mothers and their families. We want to make

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Speaker 2: sure that they have the best possible birthing experience moving forward, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, before I let you go. Yesterday we spoke to

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Speaker 1: the former Children's Commissioner, Colin and Gwynn, who was cleared

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Speaker 1: of a charge of abusive office almost two years ago

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Speaker 1: after prosecutors could not produce enough evidence to continue her trial.

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Speaker 1: Now she had been accused of attempting to hire a

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Speaker 1: friend who had previously acted in the role as assistant

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Speaker 1: Children's Commissioner. The impact that that has had on her

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Speaker 1: and her family has been terrible. Steve, do you think

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Speaker 1: there should be a government apology to colle Ain Gwynn.

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Speaker 2: What need to look into that matter further. But look,

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Speaker 2: it's clear that this is just another example of the

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Speaker 2: way that Labor treated some of these matters when they

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Speaker 2: are in government. The Labor government was responsible for dealing

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Speaker 2: with that matter. If there's an apology that is due,

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Speaker 2: then certainly the Labor government should be coming out and

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Speaker 2: making that apology. The way that she was treated to

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Speaker 2: drag through the media, she was obviously absolved of committing

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Speaker 2: any offenses. This is a matter for the Labor government

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Speaker 2: to ensure that they deal with that matter effectively.

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Speaker 1: Well. Steve Edgington, the Minister for Health, Minister for Housing,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much for your time this morning. I'll

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Speaker 1: let you go and get into Parliament.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to all the listeners.

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Speaker 1: Thank thanks so much.