Speaker 1: Ordinarily Speaking, the professional side of my tennis was the
Speaker 1: easy part. It was the personal acceptance that I found hard.
Speaker 2: It takes time.
Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to Ordinarily Speaking, a podcast that celebrates
Speaker 3: resilience in sport. I'm narrowly meadows. This week's guest is
Speaker 3: tennis champion Sam Stozer. Sam is a US Open champion
Speaker 3: and French Open runner up, with nine WTA singles titles
Speaker 3: and twenty six doubles titles to her name, but as
Speaker 3: she reveals in this chat, it has been the battle
Speaker 3: within that has proved to be the biggest challenge. It's
Speaker 3: rare to hear Sam open up on the adversity she's
Speaker 3: faced in life, but now as a mum to Evie
Speaker 3: and partner to Liz, Sam feels it's time to speak
Speaker 3: honestly about what she's overcome in her journey to self acceptance.
Speaker 3: There have always been a lot of opinions about Sam's career.
Speaker 3: This is a candid conversation about how she feels about
Speaker 3: all of it, from her inner dialogue to the public
Speaker 3: scrutiny every year the Australian Open. This is Sam like
Speaker 3: you've never heard her before, and she's pretty amazing. As always,
Speaker 3: if this episode is triggering for you, please ask for help.
Speaker 3: Lifeline and Beyond Blue are just a couple of places
Speaker 3: you can go. I really hope you enjoyed the chat. Sam.
Speaker 3: Thanks so much for spending some time with me. I'm
Speaker 3: really genuinely excited about this because I've wanted to interview
Speaker 3: you for quite some time now. What is it about
Speaker 3: tennis that you first fell in love with and is
Speaker 3: still in love with?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean when I first started, it was just
Speaker 1: I think, the joy of being able to hit something
Speaker 1: and not not you know, like an angry way, or
Speaker 1: it wasn't an angry child, but like just having this
Speaker 1: I guess goal of like this is where it's got
Speaker 1: to go and how can I do it? And how
Speaker 1: hard can I hit it and still get it in
Speaker 1: the lines? And I don't know, I just had so
Speaker 1: much fun. From the first time I had a lesson
Speaker 1: in a group, and then my older brother who's eight
Speaker 1: years older, would just take me and my younger brother
Speaker 1: down to the park after school and there was tennis
Speaker 1: courts there, so we would just play every day down
Speaker 1: at the park and yeah, I don't know, I just
Speaker 1: loved it.
Speaker 4: It was like this.
Speaker 1: Freedom of being in the court, of just being able
Speaker 1: to play and do something.
Speaker 3: Your eyes almost light up as you're talking about it.
Speaker 3: It's still there, isn't it.
Speaker 4: The love? Yeah?
Speaker 1: No, for sure, I still love playing and you know,
Speaker 1: practicing and kind of everything that comes with it. So
Speaker 1: I think there's tennis is very, I guess, somewhat unique
Speaker 1: in the way there's so many things you can practice.
Speaker 1: You can work on so many different shots, how to
Speaker 1: do it, your footwork, your strength, your decision making, the technique,
Speaker 1: whatever it is. There is so many things you can
Speaker 1: work on, and when you actually break it down, you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: how am I going to do all of this in
Speaker 1: like a day or a week? And so it comes
Speaker 1: to planning and or there's just so many different aspects
Speaker 1: to it. I think it makes it really interesting.
Speaker 3: Is there a freedom that you feel out on the
Speaker 3: court as well?
Speaker 4: Oh for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like the place where nobody can come.
Speaker 1: So this is my court time, this is what I've got,
Speaker 1: this is what I'm doing. You're down the other end
Speaker 1: or someone you know, whoever it is, and that's just
Speaker 1: your time to enjoy and play and you know, feel
Speaker 1: like you're doing something that.
Speaker 3: You love David Taylor, your coach for a long time,
Speaker 3: seven years, I believe, and through the highest of highs
Speaker 3: as well. He told me a story that you told
Speaker 3: him when he first met you about a night in Japan. Yep,
Speaker 3: tell me about this?
Speaker 4: Was this when we were at the train station.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So, I mean I traveled to Japan a
Speaker 1: number of times when I was young. They had, you know,
Speaker 1: good challenger events basically and being a safe country and
Speaker 1: everything else. You know, it was okay for a group
Speaker 1: of girls to kind of travel around or I guess
Speaker 1: my parents probably felt better about it.
Speaker 3: And because you're traveling by yourself essentially.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we were traveling.
Speaker 1: We all none of us had a coach, so we
Speaker 1: would literally just travel together and if you know, some
Speaker 1: were still in the event, one or two would go
Speaker 1: on and then you'd all meet again. And how old
Speaker 1: we late teens, early twenty The first time I went
Speaker 1: to Japan, I was seventeen, and that was like even then,
Speaker 1: I had no idea about anything. And the coach that
Speaker 1: was meant to go with us couldn't go last minute,
Speaker 1: and they were like, do you still want to go?
Speaker 1: And we were like yes, So I traveled with a
Speaker 1: girl that I'm still very good friends with, Melissa Dows,
Speaker 1: and they're just having to be three other ossies going
Speaker 1: as well, and we traveled as a group for four
Speaker 1: weeks and that was when nine to eleven happened. Actually,
Speaker 1: so we thought we were never going to get home,
Speaker 1: or we were going to have to take a boat
Speaker 1: home or something, and got really worried.
Speaker 4: It was we had a week to go.
Speaker 1: And but that particular trip sleeping in a train station.
Speaker 1: One of the girls wanted to save money on not
Speaker 1: having to get an a hotel the last night we
Speaker 1: were there because she was flying out early in the morning,
Speaker 1: and she's like, I'm just going to go sleep at
Speaker 1: the airport.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm not sure you should do that.
Speaker 1: And then so that she wasn't by herself, the couple
Speaker 1: of others we were like, okay, we'll go with you.
Speaker 1: So we went to the airport to go sleep at
Speaker 1: the airport. You weren't allowed to sleep in that particular airport.
Speaker 1: So then we went back to the train station and
Speaker 1: she's like, well, let's just stay here. So we set
Speaker 1: up our bags, ring them all together with the straps
Speaker 1: of our bags outside the police station in the train,
Speaker 1: slept there the night and it was the worst night ever.
Speaker 1: But we had, you know, some teenagers come through and
Speaker 1: sing us a song. Some other guy went and bought
Speaker 1: us some orange juice from like the seven to eleven.
Speaker 1: Brought it down, And yeah, I mean I could not
Speaker 1: wait to get on that plane the next day. I
Speaker 1: had an afternoon flight and I was so tired. But
Speaker 1: it was certainly on an experience, but yeah, it's the.
Speaker 4: Things you do.
Speaker 1: And I guess, yeah, you're trying to save money and
Speaker 1: stay as a group and be safe and yeah, not
Speaker 1: leave anyone out.
Speaker 3: So you're literally just strapping your bags and your rackets
Speaker 3: to your back and just falling asad.
Speaker 1: We strapped all the bags together and then like yeah,
Speaker 1: put them in a circle. We thought, well, if we're
Speaker 1: outside the police station, what's going to happen there? So
Speaker 1: that's going to be all right, And yeah, just hope
Speaker 1: no one would steal them. But again, I think if
Speaker 1: you're ever going to do that, Japan's probably the best
Speaker 1: place to kind of leave your bags out and nothing's
Speaker 1: going to happen.
Speaker 3: I just love that story because it kind of gives
Speaker 3: an insight into what tennis players go through when they're
Speaker 3: not the top tennis players. How tough is it on tour?
Speaker 1: I mean everyone sees the I guess what you'd call
Speaker 1: the glamorous side and the you know, the four million
Speaker 1: dollar paycheck for winning a Grand Slam and all of that,
Speaker 1: and it is so not like that in the real
Speaker 1: world of the tennis tour and the top ten and
Speaker 1: you know, the top players in the world make a
Speaker 1: lot of money, but you know, if you're ranked anywhere
Speaker 1: i'd say from fifty or down, it's hard to pay
Speaker 1: for a coach full time. It's hard to pay for
Speaker 1: all the expenses. It's not just the way, just the
Speaker 1: expenses and everything else that comes along with it. So
Speaker 1: it's not always easy, and especially when you're starting out,
Speaker 1: especially if you're doing it on your own, and the
Speaker 1: players that kind of gets stuck in that challenger level,
Speaker 1: it's tough. They're not making any money really, and they're
Speaker 1: just going week by week hoping that that's going to
Speaker 1: be their breakthrough and then you can get to the
Speaker 1: WTA or ATP Tour and then start making a living.
Speaker 3: So even if you are one of the top players,
Speaker 3: I'm intrigued by the toll that living on tour takes
Speaker 3: out of a person as opposed to the player. What
Speaker 3: is it like dedicating your life to the tour and suitcases?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think now having done it for so long, you
Speaker 1: realize how hard it is. And I think you certainly
Speaker 1: go through stages and if you're winning, everything seems a
Speaker 1: whole lot easier.
Speaker 4: And then if you're learning not doing so well.
Speaker 3: But because cricketers have told me many times about it
Speaker 3: feels like the hotel the walls are closing in on
Speaker 3: you when things are not going well, when you're stuck
Speaker 3: on the other side of the world.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and if you'd not in a great place,
Speaker 1: or you're in an airbnb and you're like, oh it's bed,
Speaker 1: I can't deal with his bed anymore, or this shower
Speaker 1: was broken, or you know whatever it is.
Speaker 4: Sometimes some weeks to seem way too long.
Speaker 3: Everyone that I speak to, they just laud your resilience.
Speaker 3: What made you that way? Do you think?
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 1: I think just really wanting to do what I do.
Speaker 1: I think a standout trip for me that probably you
Speaker 1: know in hindsight looking back, I didn't know this when
Speaker 1: I was fifteen, but I was in the eighteen's team
Speaker 1: when I was fifteen, going to Europe for ten weeks,
Speaker 1: and I'd been to Indonesia, I think, for a week
Speaker 1: or two when I was thirteen, and done maybe one
Speaker 1: other trip internationally, and then all of a sudden, I
Speaker 1: was in this eighteen's team because there was no sixteens team,
Speaker 1: so I just got put into that one. And I
Speaker 1: was so far out of my depth, out of my league.
Speaker 1: The other girls in the team were seventeen and eighteen
Speaker 1: years old, so playing in the you know, proper age group,
Speaker 1: and I'd never played on clay before. I went to
Speaker 1: Italy for four weeks and we had one other event
Speaker 1: in Belgium and then the French Open.
Speaker 4: I did not win a match.
Speaker 1: I did not win a set, didn't know how to move,
Speaker 1: didn't I how to slide. I was struggling big time,
Speaker 1: you know, calling home two three times a day on
Speaker 1: reverse charges, and god knows how much that costmom and dad.
Speaker 1: Then we went to the grass for four weeks and
Speaker 1: finished at Wimbledon, and finally won a match as nine
Speaker 1: to seven in the third on court fourteen against my
Speaker 1: Teina Babakova from Slovakia. I still remember it all and
Speaker 1: that was like the ultimate win for me. Having gone
Speaker 1: nine weeks without winning anything and I finally won something
Speaker 1: was just amazing. I think that Rezi I wanted to
Speaker 1: come home and just every day, so no, I just
Speaker 1: do one more day.
Speaker 4: I'll just do one more day.
Speaker 1: I think that in itself taught me a lot of
Speaker 1: resilience and how to stick something out, because I I mean,
Speaker 1: I think if I came home and just thought it
Speaker 1: was all too hard, who knows when I would have
Speaker 1: gone away again. I would have put myself in that
Speaker 1: sort of position again to try. And I really think
Speaker 1: that trip it was so hard at the time. I
Speaker 1: look back on that now and think what a godsend
Speaker 1: that that kind of happened to me, and that I
Speaker 1: did stick it out and work out a way to
Speaker 1: stay over there. And you know, the next two years
Speaker 1: I did that same trip again with far better memories.
Speaker 1: I didn't win everything by any means, but you know,
Speaker 1: you've done it once and thought, well, okay, I can
Speaker 1: do this again. I'll go to this next tournament. Or
Speaker 1: still couldn't win on clay, but that was fine.
Speaker 3: Was it as much realizing how strong you really were
Speaker 3: and going, oh, I'm actually I'm pretty tough.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I think.
Speaker 1: I mean it was a bit of a hit to
Speaker 1: my tennis because then I realized that there were so
Speaker 1: many better players than me, you know, everywhere around the world.
Speaker 1: That was hard, But I think I did show myself
Speaker 1: that I had some pretty good mental toughness to step.
Speaker 4: Out on court again and do it again.
Speaker 1: And you know, there was a one coach with four players,
Speaker 1: and when you're not doing well, you're not getting any
Speaker 1: time with the coach. So you got to find a
Speaker 1: way to make something happen. And I guess, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: what I was able to do.
Speaker 3: So before your heights of your career, you actually were
Speaker 3: struck down by a quite significant illness. Tell me about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was lime disease.
Speaker 1: I was over in the UK when I first started
Speaker 1: getting symptoms, actually during Wimbledon, and I was staying with
Speaker 1: a family over there. I'd stayed with them for a
Speaker 1: few years. They took in lots of Ossie players and
Speaker 1: were amazing. They got their next door neighbors to start
Speaker 1: taking Aussies in and before we knew it, there was
Speaker 1: like eight of us between all these houses and had
Speaker 1: a great time. But yeah, I started feeling really ill,
Speaker 1: no energy, swollen and puffy everywhere, and had this lump
Speaker 1: in my neck. And as the days went on, there
Speaker 1: was always something new happening to me. And turns out
Speaker 1: months later at the US Open it was lime disease,
Speaker 1: but they thought maybe I had rebella or something like that.
Speaker 1: So actually finished playing Wimbledon and I've made the semi
Speaker 1: or the final of the doubles somehow, and flew home
Speaker 1: and didn't do anything pretty much until I thought, all right, well,
Speaker 1: I'll go to the US Open, do a few weeks training.
Speaker 1: I'm just got really unfit, and you know, it'll it'll
Speaker 1: come back, it'll come back.
Speaker 4: So I'll go to the US Open.
Speaker 1: And I was playing my match there and after like
Speaker 1: four games, I knew that I had no chance of winning,
Speaker 1: had barely was going to finish the match. I lost
Speaker 1: in straight sets, and then just kind of kept training
Speaker 1: with my coach, who was Dave at the time, and
Speaker 1: he's like, well, train every morning, we'll get on the bike.
Speaker 1: Well you know, we'll just I'll do everything with you.
Speaker 1: We'll do it all together. About a week later, I
Speaker 1: was in the hospital. I had the chest pains and
Speaker 1: all sorts of things happening, flew back to Tampa, and
Speaker 1: on that flight home, I had this. To Tampa, had
Speaker 1: this whopping headache and put up with it all night,
Speaker 1: and by six am I called Renee Stubbs, who's now
Speaker 1: coaching me, who lived down the street, and says, Stubbs,
Speaker 1: you've got to come pick me up.
Speaker 4: I don't know what's wrong with me. I've got this headache.
Speaker 4: I can't stand it anymore. I was in tears.
Speaker 1: Took me to hospital there and they told me I
Speaker 1: had sign aside and I was like, I don't have
Speaker 1: sinusidis and sent me home. So I stayed at Stubbsy's
Speaker 1: house for the day and by that afternoon I was like,
Speaker 1: this is something I can't I can't put up with
Speaker 1: this anymore. So we went to another hospital and they
Speaker 1: did a spinal tap and then told me I had
Speaker 1: viralmin and gitis and I was like, oh, okay. And
Speaker 1: by that stage it was like late at night. And
Speaker 1: spent three days in hospital recovering from that, and it
Speaker 1: turns out, yeah, a couple of months after that, I
Speaker 1: was able to see it infectious disease specialists still in Florida.
Speaker 1: He told me I had lime disease, so I'd never
Speaker 1: heard of it before. I didn't know what it was,
Speaker 1: what they were talking about. And he put all the
Speaker 1: symptoms that I had and then environment and giitis and
Speaker 1: all of that kind of together and made a full
Speaker 1: picture and yeah, diagnosed me with lime. So took me
Speaker 1: ten months or eleven months until I played my next
Speaker 1: event and really started from scratch again. So literally going
Speaker 1: for a walk for twenty minutes and trying to keep
Speaker 1: my heart rate under one twenty was hard. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was a huge process. I was over there again, just stubsy,
Speaker 1: lived down the street. My dad was able to fly
Speaker 1: over a week or two later and stay with me
Speaker 1: for a bit, which was great, But other than that,
Speaker 1: it was just my little apartment and hoping that this
Speaker 1: headache would go away.
Speaker 3: How tough was that?
Speaker 4: Oh? That was really hard. That was a really tough.
Speaker 1: Tough few months, well, the whole time, because one, I
Speaker 1: just didn't know what was going on. And I think
Speaker 1: when you don't know something, it's always harder than what
Speaker 1: even if the outcomes terrible, at least you know what's
Speaker 1: going on. But yeah, just the unknown, and then once
Speaker 1: finally knowing and having such a foreign, you know, something
Speaker 1: that you'd never heard of before, really really affecting your
Speaker 1: health to the point where people said, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: you might need to be careful here if you're going
Speaker 1: to play again when you're only twenty one twenty two
Speaker 1: years old. That's pretty scary when you've just kind of
Speaker 1: started to understand what you're doing and really get a
Speaker 1: grip on what you wanted to try and achieve for
Speaker 1: your career. So to have that maybe going away so quickly.
Speaker 4: That was hard.
Speaker 3: How hard is it? Mentally?
Speaker 4: Really heartbreaking?
Speaker 1: Because again it's kind of I just got to the
Speaker 1: top of the sport really in doubles. I was around
Speaker 1: thirty or so in singles and going along thought everything
Speaker 1: was great. And yet, you know, when you're young, you
Speaker 1: think you're kind of untouchable and I'm not going to
Speaker 1: get injured that only happens to other people and blah
Speaker 1: blah blah, and then you kind of feel it could
Speaker 1: happen to me, or it did happen to me, and
Speaker 1: oh what if it happens again? Or what if I
Speaker 1: don't come back from this, And then it goes down
Speaker 1: that path of well, hang on, I'm only so young
Speaker 1: and I wanted to do this for a long time
Speaker 1: and maybe now I'm not going.
Speaker 4: To So that was shocking to me.
Speaker 1: I guess that can actually happen, and I still think
Speaker 1: I'm very lucky that I did go to America to
Speaker 1: play the US Open. If I stayed here in Australia,
Speaker 1: I don't think I would have got diagnosed in the
Speaker 1: time frame that it did. So even though I think
Speaker 1: that decision was incredibly stupid and ridiculous to think that
Speaker 1: I was going to be able to play, it's the probably.
Speaker 4: The best decision I've ever made.
Speaker 1: And who knows from that point if I would have,
Speaker 1: you know, gone on to play as long as I
Speaker 1: have and achieve what I've achieved if I didn't go
Speaker 1: to the States and get a proper diagnosis.
Speaker 3: So you end up recovering and reaching the peak of
Speaker 3: your powers. You've both won and lost a Grand Slam final,
Speaker 3: French Open Final twenty ten up against Francesque Skiavoni. What
Speaker 3: do you remember of your mindset from that day?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that day.
Speaker 1: I remember it was it was an incredible tournament because
Speaker 1: I'd had three amazing wins going into the final and
Speaker 1: I felt like this was mine and I'd always wanted
Speaker 1: to win the French Open. And that was interesting because
Speaker 1: then the day before, once you'd made it into the final,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you had two bodyguards or security
Speaker 1: guards following you everywhere you went from your hotel to
Speaker 1: dinner and just in the background. But everything changed. And
Speaker 1: then that night beforehand, I remember being at dinner walking
Speaker 1: back to my apartment again the security following you, and
Speaker 1: You're just like, why are they?
Speaker 4: Hear like, they haven't been here the whole time.
Speaker 1: It was so strange, had a paparazzi taking photos of
Speaker 1: me all of a sudden, and I'm like, no, what's
Speaker 1: going on? Like everything felt so different and more stressful
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, it just it wasn't the same
Speaker 1: as the day before. And then again going to the
Speaker 1: courts for the match, she had the security in the
Speaker 1: car and I'm like, this is all crazy, and where
Speaker 1: were you when I needed you in Japan exactly? And yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember being really more nervous. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: that's normal for anyone being in a Grand Slam final
Speaker 1: for the first time. I'm sure Franchesca was feeling exactly
Speaker 1: the same way. But yeah, got out there and just
Speaker 1: I felt like I never played how I did in
Speaker 1: the round before against Serena or Hennan or Yankovic in
Speaker 1: the semis, And having watched that match back now it's
Speaker 1: not as bad as what I thought it was at
Speaker 1: the time. And I think if I knew that at
Speaker 1: the time, and you could be kind of process all
Speaker 1: of these things in a better way, maybe I could
Speaker 1: have got out of it. Whereas I think Francesca she
Speaker 1: played amazing, she went for it, she played free, more
Speaker 1: free than me, and played amazing and deserved to win
Speaker 1: on the day. But everything just kind of hit me
Speaker 1: with all the other peripheral things that were going on
Speaker 1: that I'd never experienced before. And I think the fact
Speaker 1: just wanting to win the French Open so badly and
Speaker 1: that was my chance.
Speaker 4: I was in the final.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Unfortunately I wasn't able to do it, and I
Speaker 1: could not watch that match back, and it wasn't until
Speaker 1: the following year. You're at the French Open and lead
Speaker 1: up to the event, sitting in the cafe and they
Speaker 1: had just reruns of matches on and of course that
Speaker 1: one came on when I was eating lunch and I was.
Speaker 4: Like, okay, I'll face it. I'll face it now and
Speaker 4: watch them points it all came coming back.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I can look back on that day now
Speaker 1: with far better memories than what I could at the time.
Speaker 3: At the time. What goes through your mind when you
Speaker 3: go I've made it and I haven't won, I haven't
Speaker 3: achieved what I wanted to, Like as a human being?
Speaker 3: What goes you feel like you've just failed and let
Speaker 3: yourself down, all the people around you down, who you
Speaker 3: know obviously want to succeed and they don't think that,
Speaker 3: but that's what you feel at that time. And it
Speaker 3: was just, Yeah, it was just really disappoint My parents
Speaker 3: and my whole family got flown over for the final
Speaker 3: like all these things happened that just were so out
Speaker 3: of the ordinary, and yeah, it was just like, oh,
Speaker 3: that wasn't what anyone wanted and not what I wanted,
Speaker 3: And yeah, it just kind of felt a bit of
Speaker 3: a real deflation, I guess, And I think also you
Speaker 3: just hope and pray that you get another chance to
Speaker 3: have another chance to hopefully win something like that again.
Speaker 4: It certainly took it. It took a while for.
Speaker 1: Me to get over and even you know, weeks in,
Speaker 1: i'd absolutely changed what I did after that event. Now,
Speaker 1: if I could do it again, I wouldn't have played
Speaker 1: straight away on the grass. I needed time to process
Speaker 1: at all. But didn't you just kind of roll into
Speaker 1: the next week and then you have another loss or
Speaker 1: you know, don't play as well because you're not prepared
Speaker 1: and you're thinking about what happened. And I would do
Speaker 1: things a bit differently if I had that time again.
Speaker 3: It sounds it probably sounds a bit crazy, but do
Speaker 3: you almost need a bit of time to grief what.
Speaker 1: Kind of I know it sounds ridiculous, it's just a match,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I think so because I kept taking then
Speaker 1: that into that next week and I remember them playing
Speaker 1: at Wimbled and I mean it's only three weeks later
Speaker 1: at Wimbledon, but I was so angry on the court
Speaker 1: and had nothing to do with playing that match that
Speaker 1: I was playing at Wimwood, and it had everything to
Speaker 1: do with, you know, three weeks before. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: think if you had time to grieve it, get over
Speaker 1: it and then kind of move on. Yeah, who knows,
Speaker 1: those next few weeks would have been a bit different.
Speaker 1: What was it like with your parents there? I loved
Speaker 1: having them there and like seeing them up in the stands,
Speaker 1: but then talking you know, at the presentation everything, and
Speaker 1: looking up it was just like, oh, I really do.
Speaker 1: I wanted to win for me, but I also wanted
Speaker 1: to win for them because of everything that they'd sacrificed through,
Speaker 1: you know, my childhood, my brother's childhoods. Everyone had sacrificed
Speaker 1: so much for me, and it was kind of like
Speaker 1: that was my chance to kind of make it all
Speaker 1: worth it in a way, or repay it a little
Speaker 1: bit or something. But yeah, then when you I didn't
Speaker 1: get that ultimate you know, winner's trophy, that was tough.
Speaker 3: Is it true that it Wimbledon? I think the following
Speaker 3: year in twenty eleven, you lost a sponsor. Leader Is
Speaker 3: that right after a loss at Wimbledon twenty eleven? My
Speaker 3: clothing sponsor actually didn't resign me after I won US Open? Right,
Speaker 3: that's bizarre? Why would they do that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know, begs me. So you just had
Speaker 4: this like amazing win.
Speaker 1: I'd worn it for like five years or something, and
Speaker 1: then they're like, I know, we're not going to resign
Speaker 1: you for twenty twelve and you're like, oh, what have
Speaker 1: I done? And I actually, looking back, I wasn't the
Speaker 1: only player that they dropped who had done really well.
Speaker 4: So I was like, okay, well, it's nothing personally gets me.
Speaker 1: It's just as soon as you do well, they don't
Speaker 1: want you anymore, which makes no sense.
Speaker 4: But then you're like, okay, well what can I do
Speaker 4: next year? I need something else?
Speaker 3: Does that sort of like once again as an individual
Speaker 3: sports person, and it'd be hard not to feel like
Speaker 3: it's personal.
Speaker 1: So absolutely, yeah, you kind of think you've got this
Speaker 1: great relationship, you know, you start to know the people
Speaker 1: on a more personal kind of level.
Speaker 4: You think everything's going great.
Speaker 1: You've just won the US Open, but then yeah, they
Speaker 1: don't want you wearing their shirt anymore.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about the US Open, because then you do
Speaker 3: you do win one? What did that mean to you?
Speaker 1: People always ask did you feel like you sacrificed a
Speaker 1: lot when you were a kid to do this? And
Speaker 1: for me, it never felt like a sacrifice because I
Speaker 1: was always going to do something I wanted to do
Speaker 1: anyway and probably would rather be doing, so it wasn't
Speaker 1: a sacrifice. But it was so much dedication and hard
Speaker 1: work and perseverance and the ultimate commitment to try and
Speaker 1: achieve what I did, and it's finally happened.
Speaker 4: I guess I.
Speaker 1: I had this dream of winning a Grand Slam, being
Speaker 1: number one in the world and going to an Olympic Games,
Speaker 1: and that I actually put in one of those time
Speaker 1: capsule things when I was in primary school when they
Speaker 1: buried it, and how they I think I was in
Speaker 1: year five. It was a brand new school and they
Speaker 1: did a time capsule. They actually sent it to me
Speaker 1: a few years ago and I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: did I say all that? So I was like ten
Speaker 1: or whatever, that's so cool. And all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I'd achieved been to an Olympics and won a Grand Slam.
Speaker 1: So I was like, oh my god, I've achieved my
Speaker 1: childhood dream. And yeah, that was incredible. But again, I
Speaker 1: wish i'd kind of could experience it again because at
Speaker 1: the time it all goes by so fast.
Speaker 4: What did I do then? Or did that happen? Or
Speaker 4: da da da da da?
Speaker 1: And yeah, just an incredible moment when that off forehand
Speaker 1: went in the court and yeah, I'd won.
Speaker 3: Is it true that that match point was actually something
Speaker 3: that you had discussed in the car on the way
Speaker 3: to the of how to play that particular serve.
Speaker 1: I'd played Serena a couple of weeks before in the
Speaker 1: final of Toronto and she beat me in straight sets.
Speaker 1: And then when we were gotten to the final. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Dave and I talked about the match beforehand, and there
Speaker 1: was three or four things that he said, this is
Speaker 1: what you got to do today instead of what you
Speaker 1: did in Toronto and named them, and I'm sure that
Speaker 1: off forehand. Well, the return in particular of her second
Speaker 1: serve was one of it. I cannot remember them for
Speaker 1: the life of me. I wish I had the notes
Speaker 1: that he gave me to walk on court with, but
Speaker 1: I don't know where they are. But absolutely trying to
Speaker 1: do that on second serve was pivotal and I did
Speaker 1: it the whole match, so it's not like all of
Speaker 1: a sudden on a match point I did something I
Speaker 1: hadn't been doing.
Speaker 4: I'd hit that shot so many times. But yeah, that
Speaker 4: was a key thing.
Speaker 1: I guess that that was definitely one that was going
Speaker 1: into the final.
Speaker 3: Did you take a moment after that final by yourself?
Speaker 3: Was there a moment where you went, shit, I've just
Speaker 3: I've achieved my dream right now.
Speaker 1: It wasn't until I got to back to the hotel
Speaker 1: and I kind of walked in, dropped my bags and
Speaker 1: I just started crying. But it was like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: guess it was sort of happy tears, but it was
Speaker 1: I think it was just emotion coming out. Let you
Speaker 1: see Roger let it all out on the podium. For me,
Speaker 1: I just got into my room, was like, ugh, it's done.
Speaker 1: It's over a one and just started crying. And yeah,
Speaker 1: that was kind of a bit of a strange moment,
Speaker 1: I guess, but yeah, and then it was kind of like, Okay,
Speaker 1: what's the time we.
Speaker 4: Got to go. I gotta get showered to do this dad.
Speaker 1: It was just a manic, hectic kind of from when
Speaker 1: that match point happened for the next few days, it
Speaker 1: just felt like there was so much going on and
Speaker 1: just a bit of a blur.
Speaker 3: One thing that your coach said to me, David, was
Speaker 3: it takes personal development to become a champion, And he
Speaker 3: said he wished that more people knew the personal development
Speaker 3: you sort of had over the years, as opposed to
Speaker 3: just you know, the tactics, the work that got on
Speaker 3: behind the scenes, the gym work and all that sort
Speaker 3: of thing. Tell me about the work that you did
Speaker 3: with Ruth Anderson, the sports psychologist, and what that did
Speaker 3: for you in your career.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's easy to kind of just think, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I'm a tennis player, so you do AB and C
Speaker 1: on the court off the court, and that's all it is.
Speaker 1: But all the off court stuff, personal life, all of
Speaker 1: that affects what you're doing out there. But I think actually,
Speaker 1: for so long when I especially when I was young,
Speaker 1: no matter what was going on personally, I felt like
Speaker 1: I could kind of compartmentalize it all step on court
Speaker 1: and that didn't matter. And I think now as I've
Speaker 1: got a bit older, that's become far harder to do.
Speaker 1: I think it all kind of builds up over your
Speaker 1: lifetime and then all of a sudden it really does
Speaker 1: for everything that's going on then affects what you do
Speaker 1: on court. But early on I could kind of now
Speaker 1: put it aside, like when I was little going down
Speaker 1: to the court and it was like that was my time.
Speaker 1: I was able to still do that for such a
Speaker 1: long time. But then, yeah, I started working with Ruth
Speaker 1: sports psychologists, and I found that hard. I wasn't always
Speaker 1: easy to start opening up or even know kind of
Speaker 1: sometimes well, today's session is going to be about this,
Speaker 1: and even what I had to work on.
Speaker 4: Sometimes.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes when you're unsure or you're doing all right,
Speaker 1: you kind of like, well, there's nothing to talk about,
Speaker 1: I'm fine. But then you start opening up and it
Speaker 1: comes it's their job to, you know, dig and dig
Speaker 1: and then open up and you peel back all the
Speaker 1: layers and you actually start getting somewhere. So, yeah, I
Speaker 1: did a lot of work with Ruth over the years,
Speaker 1: and yeah, often it was about you know, well this
Speaker 1: was happening personally, so da da da da, or struggled
Speaker 1: with this loss, but was it really this loss? And
Speaker 1: you kind of start working out how the whole kind
Speaker 1: of picture can come together for your life, I guess,
Speaker 1: but ultimately to help you in winning more matches.
Speaker 3: What were some of the things that you had to
Speaker 3: work on.
Speaker 4: I think being comfortable in myself. Yeah, you know, I'm
Speaker 4: just being who I was, And I think that.
Speaker 1: Personally, being like Okay, well I'm gay, but I'm not
Speaker 1: I don't want to say anything about it, and you know,
Speaker 1: all of that kind of just how to deal with
Speaker 1: that but then not share that. But I still think.
Speaker 4: I don't feel like everyone should have to tell everyone everything,
Speaker 4: because it's that's a total personal choice. But I think
Speaker 4: you've still got to feel good about it in yourself,
Speaker 4: and as long as you're happy with it and you
Speaker 4: understand it and you're good, it really doesn't matter how
Speaker 4: you want to go about it. But I think there's
Speaker 4: certainly a time where that was kind of maybe half
Speaker 4: for me to understand or you know, deal with that
Speaker 4: with my family or something like just being I think
Speaker 4: a bit more true and open to myself. That was
Speaker 4: really important.
Speaker 3: When did you become comfortable within yourself? When did you
Speaker 3: have that moment?
Speaker 1: I don't know when it necessarily was, but I think
Speaker 1: I mean for a long time, all my family, my friends,
Speaker 1: anyone who knew me knew.
Speaker 4: It just wasn't made public.
Speaker 1: So that's why I guess what happened last year is
Speaker 1: kind of funny in hidesight because it really wasn't used
Speaker 1: to anyone that knew me.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think even even until maybe you know, I put
Speaker 1: that out on Instagram, you still kind of go through
Speaker 1: moments where it's a bit of a struggle, and you know,
Speaker 1: I'm working with a new psychologist now and we probably
Speaker 1: talked about it even more than back then and just
Speaker 1: being comfort and accepting who you are and yeah, all
Speaker 1: of it. So I think it's still being probably work
Speaker 1: in progress, and it's not something that probably is ever
Speaker 1: really going to go away, and it's just you know,
Speaker 1: part of trying to develop and grow as a person.
Speaker 3: I think, what is it that scared you all those years?
Speaker 1: I think just being judged and you know it's something
Speaker 1: you know wrong or you know, or what if they
Speaker 1: know they're not gonna like you, or you know, you
Speaker 1: lose like you read about people losing sponsors or something
Speaker 1: like that, but they or you eventually when you know,
Speaker 1: you make that personal contact with them. And again it's
Speaker 1: not like I ever really had a bad experience, but
Speaker 1: I think it's just that stigma that's attached with it all,
Speaker 1: which I think is getting better now that just kind
Speaker 1: of always scared me and probably just to really open
Speaker 1: up was always kind of hard for me.
Speaker 3: Do you wish that you'd come out earlier or is
Speaker 3: this just been the way that your journey has gone.
Speaker 1: That's why we were talking about that last night just
Speaker 1: coincidentally we live Yeah, yeah, yeah, I kind of do
Speaker 1: I wish i'd done things a little bit differently, but
Speaker 1: I also did them the way I did because of
Speaker 1: how I felt at the time, and that was right.
Speaker 1: And I think you can't force anyone to do any
Speaker 1: whether it's this subject or something else. It's got to
Speaker 1: be the right time for the person. And even though
Speaker 1: I came close and it was like, I don't want
Speaker 1: to deal with this anymore, I'm just going to do it,
Speaker 1: never did. I think it's the right time when it happens,
Speaker 1: So I don't have regrets, But.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I kind of wondered.
Speaker 1: Would things have been a little bit different or could
Speaker 1: things played out a little bit differently if I'd kind
Speaker 1: of taken that leap before.
Speaker 4: But I guess you don't know.
Speaker 3: It's a lot of weight for person to carry around.
Speaker 3: I would imagine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think again, you don't realize that until you
Speaker 1: kind of get it off. Your shot is yeah, you
Speaker 1: can kind of again push it to the side, doesn't
Speaker 1: matter now, and then something else, you know, becomes priority
Speaker 1: and get into you know, other issues or whatever, and
Speaker 1: then but it always kind of comes back, So I
Speaker 1: think it's always lingering there. But yeah, for sure, it's
Speaker 1: a lot of weight when you're you know, you feel
Speaker 1: like you're again, not that you're lying or you're necessarily
Speaker 1: hiding something, because I don't think everyone has to divulge
Speaker 1: everything about themselves.
Speaker 4: It's just that little.
Speaker 1: Bit of cautiousness around what you do, and that gets
Speaker 1: tiring and becomes well, why did I ever need to
Speaker 1: do that? Why did I feel like I needed to
Speaker 1: do that when could have just been.
Speaker 4: A whole lot simpler.
Speaker 3: Did you always know? No?
Speaker 4: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I think it's again just growing up and thinking, oh, well,
Speaker 1: yes I am now or will I be?
Speaker 4: You know, I don't know, but.
Speaker 1: No, I mean, I mean it's been a while, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I think until you really no, you know, I guess
Speaker 1: did you come out to your parents or did they
Speaker 1: just always No? No, I did, but I don't know
Speaker 1: if they had an income. I think parents probably have
Speaker 1: a slight inkling at you know, certain behaviors at certain
Speaker 1: times or what you're doing. But you know, maybe it
Speaker 1: was harder for them too, because I was traveling, I
Speaker 1: was away. They didn't see me as much as my
Speaker 1: two brothers. I wasn't at home and all of that.
Speaker 1: But no, I did tell them and we had you know,
Speaker 1: the conversation and the talk and the tears and everything
Speaker 1: else that goes along with it, and probably a few
Speaker 1: times actually, but yeah, that certainly wasn't easy. How have
Speaker 1: they taken it over the years, I think, I mean
Speaker 1: not always. I know they love me no matter what,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I think it's not always been so easy
Speaker 1: to talk about it with their friends, or it's kind
Speaker 1: of again it's that I'll sweep things under the carpet
Speaker 1: and pretend they're not happening, like I said before, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's happened with them too, so but you know,
Speaker 1: they love lies, love ev and you know, I could
Speaker 1: not have could not imagine it any other way now,
Speaker 1: So I think it's it's incredible the way we've all
Speaker 1: kind of grown into where we are now and being
Speaker 1: able to, I guess make our relationship even better, you know,
Speaker 1: having that kind of out on the table, I guess,
Speaker 1: rather than they're kind of just not being talked about.
Speaker 3: What was it about Li's that you fell in love with?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think we've known each other for a little while
Speaker 1: but barely talked or anything.
Speaker 4: And then yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think she just was always this really genuine person
Speaker 1: and fun to be around, would crack the jokes and
Speaker 1: whatever and just always had something interesting. Is you had,
Speaker 1: you know, great life experiences and stories and yeah, just yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess all of that together and then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden something just kind of clicked with us. Tell
Speaker 1: me in the mindset that you're in social media and
Speaker 1: you're gonna just sort of I guess you had a
Speaker 1: discussion with Liz and said, we're gonna do this your
Speaker 1: hits end. What goes through your mind in that moment,
Speaker 1: something that you've held onto for so many years. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: the Nucer Metal I yeah, accepted that award, the Spirit Award,
Speaker 1: and kind of got up there and made my speech
Speaker 1: and as.
Speaker 4: I was going, I was like, you got to do it.
Speaker 1: And then once I stepped off stage, I was like,
Speaker 1: what are you doing? Like, You've just accepted this award,
Speaker 1: thanked all these people, and you know the person who
Speaker 1: really is you know with you every single day, the
Speaker 1: person you have the most candid and open discussions with,
Speaker 1: who you want to spend the rest of your life.
Speaker 1: If you can't mention them on stage, I was like, Nah,
Speaker 1: that's ridiculous. Now I've at the point I don't want
Speaker 1: to do that anymore. And we're walking to the back
Speaker 1: to the car to the car park to come home,
Speaker 1: and I was like, said, I want to do this,
Speaker 1: and I think I still wrote I think I hit send.
Speaker 4: At like three am or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, U can medals a late night anyway, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I kind of wrote it out and I was like,
Speaker 1: are you okay if I do this? And dah da
Speaker 1: da talked about it and yeah, hit send, and it
Speaker 1: was like, oh, it actually felt so good just to
Speaker 1: again just open up that little bit more and have
Speaker 1: all of that kind of that truth of yeah, my
Speaker 1: relationship with her out there, and also just to finally
Speaker 1: be like thank you to her because she's a huge
Speaker 1: part of my life and my life firstly ten or secondly,
Speaker 1: but again, all of that ties in together, and it
Speaker 1: just kind of got to the point where I was
Speaker 1: sick of not being able to acknowledge her just because
Speaker 1: she's a huge part of it first and foremost, and
Speaker 1: I wanted to be able to say thanks.
Speaker 3: Everyone that I spoke to they have joy in their
Speaker 3: voices at that moment because they were so happy, relieved,
Speaker 3: proud of you for finally going this is me essentially.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: How much support did you receive after that moment?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean anyone who again was close to me
Speaker 1: and they saw that. I had, you know, messages the
Speaker 1: next day, and I know Dave in particular was very
Speaker 1: proud of me from that respect. But yeah, it was
Speaker 1: just like this overwhelming sense of love and you know,
Speaker 1: we're proud of you, and oh, that's got to feel good,
Speaker 1: and just that we're really proud of you for just
Speaker 1: letting it go.
Speaker 3: If you now could tell the little girl at first knew,
Speaker 3: what would you say to her now?
Speaker 1: Oh, just be honest. I think you just got to
Speaker 1: be completely honest with yourself. If that's who you are
Speaker 1: and that's what you want to be, and in anything
Speaker 1: in life, that's all that matters, and just enjoy it
Speaker 1: and embrace all of it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Again, it doesn't have to just be about your sexuality
Speaker 1: or anything anything in life. Just if you're good with
Speaker 1: it and that's what you want to do, go with it,
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, it's always going
Speaker 1: to come back, So you're just going to end up
Speaker 1: wasting time along the road trying to do something that
Speaker 1: you don't want to do, or you know, hide behind
Speaker 1: something else, whatever it is, for too long and then
Speaker 1: you're going to get.
Speaker 4: To that point anyway. So why not do it earlier?
Speaker 4: Just have it or have it exactly how you want
Speaker 4: it to be.
Speaker 3: Now you're a mom as well with Evie. How does
Speaker 3: it shape the way that you want to be a
Speaker 3: parent what you've been through?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I kind of think, God, I hope Evie
Speaker 1: doesn't want to not doesn't want to. I hope Evie
Speaker 1: feels that she can do exactly what I've just said.
Speaker 1: And whether that you know, that's being honest with herself,
Speaker 1: being honest with us as her parents, able to tell
Speaker 1: us anything, talk to us about anything. Yeah, it makes
Speaker 1: you think, Okay, well, if I was heard, do I
Speaker 1: want her to experience whatever it is?
Speaker 4: Yes? Or no? Well, how can I help her do that?
Speaker 1: It certainly makes you I look at so many things
Speaker 1: so different now after having her in my life, so
Speaker 1: and I can imagine that's only going to get more
Speaker 1: and more and more.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: A friend of mine said to me, or will just
Speaker 1: welcome to feeling guilty for the rest of your life?
Speaker 4: And I was like, oh great.
Speaker 3: But.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's certainly I'd look at so many things so
Speaker 1: differently now.
Speaker 3: So you talk about the fact that you're going to
Speaker 3: a sports psychologist because you want to deal with the
Speaker 3: stuff that's happening as the person in order to be
Speaker 3: a better player as well. How did that impact, you know,
Speaker 3: withholding that sort of thing, How did it impact on
Speaker 3: the court?
Speaker 1: I don't know for sure, because it just I can't
Speaker 1: can't experience it any other way beforehand. But again it's
Speaker 1: not like every week I called up and that's what
Speaker 1: we spoke about. But again, one thing, even though I
Speaker 1: was so committed to everything I was doing with my tennis, again,
Speaker 1: if I could tell any young sports person, tennis player, whatever,
Speaker 1: whatever they're doing, go to a psychologist, sports psychologist, psychologist, whoever,
Speaker 1: early on and just start to, I guess, have that
Speaker 1: experience of being able to open up and talk about
Speaker 1: whatever it is, whatever issues you know, good or bad
Speaker 1: that might be happening. I wish i'd kind of understood
Speaker 1: that earlier on in my career to then know the
Speaker 1: impact it can then make later on. And I think
Speaker 1: if you get used to being vulnerable and opening up
Speaker 1: at an early stage, it's far easier than you know
Speaker 1: later on. And even now I still find things difficult,
Speaker 1: and it's the part of my.
Speaker 4: Career that I enjoy the least.
Speaker 1: But I know I have to do it, and it's
Speaker 1: easy just to kind of not make the appointment and
Speaker 1: let it slide for a little while, but eventually I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: I really need to do this, and I get back
Speaker 1: to it. So I think if I'd had that kind
Speaker 1: of ingrained in me earlier on, just like it is
Speaker 1: to do your warm up and do your stretches and
Speaker 1: go to the physio.
Speaker 3: Stretch your mind, Yeah, exactly, it's all.
Speaker 4: The same, and that's what Liz always says.
Speaker 1: She's like, well, you wouldn't not do your shoulder rehab today,
Speaker 1: but you will easily not go and do that.
Speaker 4: So it's I find.
Speaker 1: It really hard, But yeah, I wish I'd kind of
Speaker 1: understood the reasons for it and what it can do
Speaker 1: for me far earlier on. I think, Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: lesson that I would definitely like to pass on to
Speaker 1: any young sports.
Speaker 3: People or person. Yeah, yeah, you're listening to Ordinarily speaking
Speaker 3: with Brand Slam champion Sam Stozer the Australian Open and
Speaker 3: the pressure that comes with being Sam Stozer at the
Speaker 3: Australian Open. From an outsider looking in, I find it
Speaker 3: hard to watch what seems to happen to you every year.
Speaker 3: What is it like for you living it?
Speaker 1: It's hard because I do feel like I've got that
Speaker 1: resilience and that perseverance and the mental toughness and fortitude
Speaker 1: to get through some huge occasions on court, and I've
Speaker 1: proven time and time again that I have and can.
Speaker 1: But if I don't win it the Aussie Open, all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I don't have any and it just,
Speaker 1: you know, doesn't seem it doesn't weigh up because it's
Speaker 1: I'm so good in that area and a lot of
Speaker 1: times and then all of a sudden, I have no
Speaker 1: resilience at all. And I don't believe that obviously, but
Speaker 1: I think when that's all that you hear over that
Speaker 1: period of time, it's hard then for it not to
Speaker 1: kind of be become the truth for that moment. I guess, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that Ossie Open has been a really hard
Speaker 1: time of the year on many levels over the course
Speaker 1: of my career. But I think, yeah, it's almost the
Speaker 1: price I paid for being the number one player in
Speaker 1: Australia for so long.
Speaker 4: I guess, because then all of a sudden.
Speaker 1: We're playing in Australia and you're expected to do, you know,
Speaker 1: whatever great things win the tournament, especially after winning the
Speaker 1: US Open. Ossie's the next Slam to come around the corner. Well,
Speaker 1: you've just won one, you know, just win another one.
Speaker 1: It's easy, Just go do it. Then you're meant to
Speaker 1: do this. You rank you know, top five in the world.
Speaker 1: But it's not that simple. And I think anyone who
Speaker 1: can win back to back slams, win a Slam, win
Speaker 1: back to back slams and then defend a title, I mean,
Speaker 1: hats off to them, and that's why they're the greatest
Speaker 1: champions of the sport. But you know, it's not that easy,
Speaker 1: and it's it's hard because, yeah, you kind of feel
Speaker 1: like you're just getting you know, beat up or you know,
Speaker 1: dug into the ground January after January, and it's just
Speaker 1: a hard time of the year. And then you know,
Speaker 1: I've had my success through Europe and the States where
Speaker 1: it's not seen as easily on TV and time change
Speaker 1: and everything else. So that's kind of almost doesn't get
Speaker 1: the same height as what the Aussie Open gets the
Speaker 1: same down.
Speaker 4: I guess if that makes sense.
Speaker 3: When you know that it's just around the corner. When
Speaker 3: do you start feeling it physically? The pressure?
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean all of a sudden, you know, a
Speaker 1: couple of days before the first tournament, I'm like, I.
Speaker 4: Can't hit my forehand cross God anymore, I can't do this.
Speaker 1: And I think, yeah, I've learned over the years that
Speaker 1: as soon as I have those irrational thoughts that you know,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I can't hit this ball correctly.
Speaker 4: Okay, it's happening. The pressure is coming.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think every player experience is that,
Speaker 1: but again, because you just feel like you're in the
Speaker 1: spotlight so much more than someone from Russia. Say, you know,
Speaker 1: my first round loss is far worse than their first
Speaker 1: round loss in the same event, even though we might
Speaker 1: be ranked in the same position. So I think that's
Speaker 1: just there's so many great things about having a Grand
Speaker 1: Slam in your home country. But yes, sometimes all that
Speaker 1: other peripheral stuff that comes along with it really is
Speaker 1: an ideal. If you're about to lose, at what point
Speaker 1: in your mind does it come in that you start
Speaker 1: thinking about do you start thinking on court if here
Speaker 1: we go again, they're going to be out for me again.
Speaker 1: Not so much recently, but I remember playing Jang g
Speaker 1: on center court. I can't even remember what year it was,
Speaker 1: probably eight seven, eight years ago now. I was leading
Speaker 1: six two five two, I think, and lost and as
Speaker 1: that Matt you know, five or six ' five loser
Speaker 1: sects set down in the third, you do start to think, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, it's happening again, or I've lost this match
Speaker 1: or whatever, and that is the complete opposite of what
Speaker 1: you want to be thinking at that point in time.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's certainly different. Memories had crept back.
Speaker 4: Again.
Speaker 1: I think if I looked at everyone that I played
Speaker 1: and you know, lost to at the Australian Open over
Speaker 1: the nineteen that I've played, they're actually not all bad
Speaker 1: losses if you look at it on paper and you
Speaker 1: know logically. But again, I think when that's kind of
Speaker 1: the token line, it's tough.
Speaker 3: Is the pressure does it impact you? Do you think
Speaker 3: that the pressure at the Australian Open has impacted your
Speaker 3: ability to play your best tennis?
Speaker 4: Oh? Definitely.
Speaker 1: Through the middle section of my career, absolutely, I think
Speaker 1: I wasn't able to play my best tennis. But I
Speaker 1: think that's for pressure, for conditions, for different things. Going
Speaker 1: on like there's a multitude of different reasons, I think,
Speaker 1: but again, that pressure word seems to be the one
Speaker 1: that is always the reason in the media, and it's yeah,
Speaker 1: it definitely did affect me that, you know, I won't
Speaker 1: lie about that for sure.
Speaker 3: How does it feel when you walk off the court
Speaker 3: and then you have to deal with it?
Speaker 1: Oh, going to some of those press conferences hasn't been
Speaker 1: the most fun times, no doubt. But again I think
Speaker 1: it's just all right, I've kind of the worst part's
Speaker 1: just happened. I'm out of the tournament. I feel, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm really upset. I'm disappointed that I lost. That was
Speaker 1: the worst part of it. So now I have to
Speaker 1: do this. There's no choice in the matter, and it's
Speaker 1: not easy and I don't enjoy it. But you kind
Speaker 1: of like, put up with this fifteen minutes and then
Speaker 1: go home and not read the paper tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Do you feel like hiding? It must be It must
Speaker 3: be so tough when you know you've gone through this
Speaker 3: and then it's front page, back page, all talk back.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh, sometimes yeah, sometimes you kind of feel like you, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: don't go out today, or I don't want to do that.
Speaker 1: Or whatever, and you again, whether it's happening or not happening,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you feel like everyone's looking at you.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure that's you know, exaggerated in your own mind,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I think that's an absolutely normal thing to
Speaker 1: kind of feel. But you've it's then how you're going
Speaker 1: to cope with that? And I think that's the one
Speaker 1: thing that I've been able to do is then on
Speaker 1: the whole, cope very well with all of that that
Speaker 1: goes along with play here and the Aussie Open and
Speaker 1: everything to then once I, you know, play more tournaments,
Speaker 1: play more matches, kind of find my form, get into
Speaker 1: the year, then I find my fate and I'm good
Speaker 1: and I can bounce back from it. And there's been
Speaker 1: many occasions where I've bounced back from a tough loss
Speaker 1: or a tough moment or tournament, whether that's in Australia
Speaker 1: or not in Australia, and you know, a week or
Speaker 1: two later, won a tournament, I've achieved this or done that.
Speaker 1: So I think my ability to bounce back and then
Speaker 1: cope with the tough moments is one thing that I'm
Speaker 1: actually very proud of in my whole career.
Speaker 3: Do you sometimes just want to scream I'm a Grand
Speaker 3: Slam champion, give me some respect.
Speaker 1: I've done Okay, well, I mean, yeah, I guess sometimes.
Speaker 1: And again I'm not saying don't get me wrong, It's
Speaker 1: not like I have this beat down poor me. Everyone
Speaker 1: thinks I'm crap at what I do by any means.
Speaker 1: But yeah, sometimes you're like, I've done some good things,
Speaker 1: and can you just remember that for a moment when
Speaker 1: you're gonna tell me that I've just lost six I
Speaker 1: the Open first rounds in a row. I'm like, okay, well,
Speaker 1: you know that's yes, that's not what I want and
Speaker 1: I wish I could have changed that.
Speaker 4: But that's not my whole career.
Speaker 1: You know, that's just a tiny little snippet of a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks once a year in a very long career.
Speaker 3: Can you put into words what it would mean to
Speaker 3: you to do well in Australian Open?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean that would be amazing. Like this year,
Speaker 1: my goal, I wanted to try and make fourth round.
Speaker 4: That was my goal.
Speaker 1: I'm going to make fourth round, fourth round, fourth round,
Speaker 1: fourth round. If I could make fourth round and all
Speaker 1: the second round.
Speaker 4: But you know, I think it's just if you could
Speaker 4: do if I could do well.
Speaker 1: In Australia, that would be amazing, you know, times running
Speaker 1: out now, But I've just never never been able to
Speaker 1: play my best here and I'm not the only Australian
Speaker 1: to not play their best tennis at the Australian Open.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it would have been nice to kind of
Speaker 1: feel that reward, I guess for playing in front of
Speaker 1: a home crowd and absolutely putting your best tennis out
Speaker 1: there would be a very nice feeling.
Speaker 3: How do you feel about your relationship with the Aussie
Speaker 3: public and the Aussie media?
Speaker 1: You know what, I actually feel a lot of love
Speaker 1: from the Aussie public, I think, no matter what. Even
Speaker 1: my match this year against Jessica Pagoula, I was ultimately
Speaker 1: getting thrashed on the school line, but I actually didn't
Speaker 1: feel I was playing that bad. I felt like I
Speaker 1: was hitting the ball well. And I think because I
Speaker 1: was able to go out there and actually show how
Speaker 1: I was feeling internally on the outside and still run
Speaker 1: for the next ball and put it out, there were
Speaker 1: still people.
Speaker 4: You know, say come on, Sam, you can do this.
Speaker 1: You know a set and three love And I think
Speaker 1: other years when I wasn't as comfortable with myself and
Speaker 1: what I'm doing and hadn't done the you know, as
Speaker 1: much work and all that. I think the crowd can
Speaker 1: then see that in me, and then that's when they
Speaker 1: kind of feel dejected.
Speaker 4: As much as I.
Speaker 1: Feel dejected on the court and want to crawl into
Speaker 1: a hole and disappear, that did not happen this year.
Speaker 1: So I think that in itself, if I was able
Speaker 1: to show that in myself, they could kind of ride
Speaker 1: that with me, and it just felt like support. It
Speaker 1: didn't feel like oh here we go again, not at
Speaker 1: all like that. But yeah, I mean walk down the
Speaker 1: street anywhere in Australia, if someone recognizes me, it's always
Speaker 1: so positive and you know, we've loved watching you play.
Speaker 1: Thank you for everything you know you've done for the
Speaker 1: sport or you know, playing for Australia, or you represent yourself.
Speaker 4: So well, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: I've always felt really a lot of support and love
Speaker 1: from the general public. People who've never met me before,
Speaker 1: they feel comfortable to come up and approach me and
Speaker 1: say that I think, I mean, you can't get any
Speaker 1: better kind of accolade or whatever the word is. That
Speaker 1: a total stranger can come up to you and say,
Speaker 1: I've really enjoyed watching you play, thank you for the
Speaker 1: hours of entertainment. I think that's you know, that's pretty
Speaker 1: bloody special.
Speaker 3: That's nice to hear. I'm glad. Has there been moments
Speaker 3: where it's all gotten too much?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean definitely, there's certainly been times wherein can
Speaker 1: I do this anymore?
Speaker 4: Do I want to do this anymore?
Speaker 1: It Is there enough good things happening to outweigh the
Speaker 1: tough moments, or you know, if I don't do this anymore,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to feel like that on the court.
Speaker 1: So if I just don't play, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: feel that disappointment. So if I don't play, it's okay.
Speaker 1: I've had that conversation meeting. But you know, even you know,
Speaker 1: only Stubbsy and Liz know this conversation. I've lost in
Speaker 1: the lead up event to Ossie Open this year, didn't
Speaker 1: play as well as what I wanted to, you know,
Speaker 1: first match since February last year, walked off the court
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, just got so emotional and was like.
Speaker 4: Maybe this is it.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe I'm done, And you know, then you kind
Speaker 1: of go through all these scenes and stuffs. He's like,
Speaker 1: just take a breath, Everything's okay. It's only one match.
Speaker 1: And you know, then I was in a bad mood
Speaker 1: for three days and finally was like, no, okay, I'm
Speaker 1: playing on the Open in four days time.
Speaker 4: I have to be better than this.
Speaker 1: I'm going to be better than this, and back to work,
Speaker 1: and you know, won my first round and what it
Speaker 1: bounce back That was from where I fell after my
Speaker 1: first match of the year to the second match of
Speaker 1: the year. But again, no one sees that kind of
Speaker 1: transformation from where I went to to then where I
Speaker 1: came back to and ultimately finished the summer. So but yeah,
Speaker 1: there's certainly been times where I wonder, Okay, maybe maybe
Speaker 1: this is it, and I think, I mean, I know
Speaker 1: that that times coming soon, whenever that may be. And unfortunately,
Speaker 1: with the world we're living in right now, it's kind
Speaker 1: of you don't I don't feel like I've got as
Speaker 1: many opportunities to play and do all of this as
Speaker 1: much as what I want to. But that's the way
Speaker 1: a lot of people around the world can't do what
Speaker 1: they want to either. So I think you've got to
Speaker 1: look at it as a whole and just really then
Speaker 1: appreciate the moments that I've got left to play wherever
Speaker 1: that may be, whatever tournaments I can go to, and
Speaker 1: you know, experience it for what it is, and really
Speaker 1: enjoy this last little period that I've got because I know,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm thirty seven soon, so there's not going
Speaker 1: to be too many years.
Speaker 3: Are you scared of retirement for somebody that's dedicated their
Speaker 3: entire lives and single mindedly chased a dream, Are you
Speaker 3: scared of life without tennis?
Speaker 1: I'm not scared of what my life will be without it,
Speaker 1: because I've got a great life and you know, I
Speaker 1: love being home and now with ev and you know
Speaker 1: that's going to be incredible. So I'm not scared of that.
Speaker 1: But I'm scared of, I guess, just the letting go
Speaker 1: of something that I've done for so long. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I'm I know, I'm going to find that
Speaker 1: really hard to kind of It's yeah, wake up in
Speaker 1: the morning and be like, oh, well, I don't have
Speaker 1: to go to training today. What am I going to do?
Speaker 1: And I know that the day is going to be
Speaker 1: full and there's going to be all of that, and
Speaker 1: I'm going to absolutely love that and be immersed in it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, just that idea that that chapter of your
Speaker 1: life is now kind of closed, that playing side's done.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I'll find that.
Speaker 1: Pretty difficult, at least for the first phase or whatever.
Speaker 1: But you know, I've never retired from anything before, so
Speaker 1: I guess I don't really know how to do it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I do think I'm going to miss it
Speaker 1: a lot.
Speaker 3: It's because it's it's that balance, particularly in a profession
Speaker 3: like sport, where adie is kind of all encompassing of
Speaker 3: you don't want it to be what defines you, but
Speaker 3: it defines so much of your time.
Speaker 4: And oh it does.
Speaker 1: And you know, no matter what you do, our work
Speaker 1: can rightly or wrongly define us as people. And I
Speaker 1: think sometimes it defines us too much as people. But
Speaker 1: you know, it's what we do for most hours of
Speaker 1: the day ultimately, so it's hard to kind of separate that.
Speaker 1: And I think Tennis has given me so many great
Speaker 1: memories and so much opportunity and you know, people I've
Speaker 1: met and things that I've been able to do and
Speaker 1: experience and those emotions and not everyone can go to
Speaker 1: work every day and have fifteen thousand people cheering for
Speaker 1: them to do it really well, like that's incredible, and yeah,
Speaker 1: to not be I think sometimes you just kind of think, oh,
Speaker 1: can I have that one more time? Even now, like
Speaker 1: you play out on court six, Well, can I have.
Speaker 4: That one more time? You know?
Speaker 1: And that's why I think I really loved playing the
Speaker 1: mixed doubles final. This is pretty cool, Like I'm able
Speaker 1: to play another Grand Slam final, and I really, I think,
Speaker 1: for the first time ever, you know, played that match
Speaker 1: really kind of looking at that as a this is
Speaker 1: a moment that I will never have again.
Speaker 4: Just really enjoy it.
Speaker 1: So I think, yeah, you start to feel those things,
Speaker 1: and then yeah, when you think about retiring not doing
Speaker 1: it again, you're.
Speaker 4: Like, oh, but I might want that one day, but
Speaker 4: I can't have it anymore.
Speaker 3: So when you reflect on all of it, Grand Slam champion,
Speaker 3: five time Olympian, I think it is you.
Speaker 4: Don't know four time, if I make Tokyo.
Speaker 3: If you make Tokyo. Second highest earner in Australian tennis,
Speaker 3: I believe, after Layton Hewitt, only just behind Layton Hewitt.
Speaker 3: When you reflect on all that, it's a lot to
Speaker 3: be bloody proud of.
Speaker 1: I'm very proud of what I've been able to achieve.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I think I've done farm more than what
Speaker 1: I ever thought would be, even when I wrote in
Speaker 1: that time capsule. But yeah, when I really if I
Speaker 1: really think about it, I think also when you're in
Speaker 1: it and you're still playing, you can't kind of fully
Speaker 1: appreciate what you've been able to do. I remember reading
Speaker 1: something Stefanie Graff said, who was my absolute idol growing up, like,
Speaker 1: you can't appreciate what you're doing at the time because
Speaker 1: you want more and you always want more. So if
Speaker 1: you kind of just sit back and be like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty good, I've done what I wanted to do,
Speaker 1: How are you ever going to want more or strive
Speaker 1: for more? And yeah, So I think when you're in it,
Speaker 1: it's really hard to appreciate all the achievements and moments
Speaker 1: and all of that because we are so go go.
Speaker 1: You win a final somewhere, sometimes you're on a plane
Speaker 1: that night going to the next time, you're playing your
Speaker 1: match the next day. All of a sudden, that moment's gone.
Speaker 1: You can't relive that celebration or feeling. So I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: it probably won't be till I do hang the rackets
Speaker 1: up that I'm like, Okay, that was really really good.
Speaker 1: But I am very proud of what I've been able
Speaker 1: to achieve. And yeah, I guess be able to have
Speaker 1: made all those moments growing up with everyone that was
Speaker 1: involved in my career.
Speaker 4: Absolutely worth it.
Speaker 3: Are you proud of who you are?
Speaker 4: I am proud of who I am.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think I've got some amazing friends, and
Speaker 1: I guess I know they wouldn't have me as a
Speaker 1: friend if they didn't think the same. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: am proud of who I am.
Speaker 3: Thank you for spending the time. I don't know when
Speaker 3: it's coming to an end. I don't know if we'll
Speaker 3: see you again in Australia next year, but it's been
Speaker 3: inspiring watching you go about it the way that you have,
Speaker 3: and I really appreciate you sharing all of this today
Speaker 3: because I think there's going to be some people listening,
Speaker 3: whether older or younger, who hopefully care to be more
Speaker 3: vulnerable themselves now having heard you do it. So thanks
Speaker 3: for your tom no problem, Thanks very much, soon time.
Speaker 3: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Ordinarily speaking.
Speaker 3: If you enjoyed this chat, you may also want to
Speaker 3: check out the episode with fellow Aussie tennis play out
Speaker 3: the Nazi Kochanakis, who spoke openly about his mental health
Speaker 3: challenges earlier in this season. And if you like the podcast,
Speaker 3: don't forget to hit subscribe and tell your mates. If
Speaker 3: you want to get in touch on Twitter, it's at
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Speaker 3: at ordinarily Underscore Speaking. Thanks for your support.
Speaker 2: Thank you
Speaker 3: Some