1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: One of my favorite things about the Happy Families podcast 2 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:10,959 Speaker 1: is talking to awesome people. One of my favorite people 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: in media today is somebody called Angela Mollard. If you 4 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: read any kind of media online or even even the 5 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 1: old fashioned way with paper in your hand, you will 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: have come across Angela Mollard's writing. Angela is an experienced 7 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:30,319 Speaker 1: columnist skilled in journalism, radio, television, magazines and newspapers. And 8 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: I think we've been on TV together before it Yeah, you. 9 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 2: Be on Channel nine together on Today not Today Today Extra. 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 2: We used to do and we used to thrash things 11 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 2: out and it was lovely. You were the highlight of 12 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 2: my week. 13 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: Sometimes always fun, not just contributing to TV and writing 14 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: weekly for the News Court papers on a range of topics, 15 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: one of which is parenting. You shut up recently in 16 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: do you say Maurrie Claire or Marie Clair? I've never known. 17 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 2: Murray Claire was? Which one did you see there? And 18 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: why were you buying murraycare Justine? 19 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: None of what I was. I was just gurgling around 20 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: and seeing what else you've been up to. I can't 21 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: even remember what the article was, but I do know 22 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 1: that I really enjoyed it because I. 23 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 2: I did the three of the Matilda's before they went Overseas, 24 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 2: and I did Elizabeth Deickie from The Crown, and I've 25 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 2: done Terresa Palmer and Shaketti. I love working for Murray 26 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 2: Clair Arrgeous Maazing. 27 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: I don't think it was any of those, but whatever 28 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 1: it was, it just drew me in. It drew me in, 29 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: and I thought, this is why I love Angela Mollart. 30 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: I need it on the podcast because of a recent 31 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: article that you wrote for the News Court Papers, which 32 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: is that parenting needs a PR job. We've got a 33 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 1: PR problem when it comes to parenting, and your argument 34 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: basically is that I don't know people who are sort 35 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:44,839 Speaker 1: of in their twenties and thirties are looking at parenting 36 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: and saying it's kind of hard. It correlates with some 37 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: research out of Europe I came across and studied from 38 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: Germany that indicated that most German couples are opting for 39 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: zero or one children because once you get past one, 40 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: well it's harder again. And so there's just a there's 41 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: a lack of desirability on our younger generation around parenting. 42 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: Once upon a time, having kids was just what you did. 43 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: You had to consciously opt out of parenting a generation 44 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: or two ago, whereas now young people seem to be 45 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: consciously determining whether or not they will opt in because 46 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 1: they're worried about careers and houses and deposits and dollars 47 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: and accomplishment and figuring out who they are, just identity stuff. 48 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: I loved your article. Where did it come from? What 49 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 1: was the idea behind it? 50 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 2: Look, all most of my articles come from just listening 51 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 2: to hearing people having conversations and have friendships with people 52 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: in their late twenties and thirties, and some you know, 53 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 2: through relatives and things. I can hear this conversation and 54 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 2: I was actually speaking to someone, a couple who were 55 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 2: getting married about a week before I wrote this piece, 56 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 2: and it was just like, gosh, all my friends they've 57 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: had started having babies there, and these two were thirty two, 58 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 2: and they said, you know, none of them make it 59 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 2: look or sound any fun. They're always talking about how 60 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: tiring it is, you know, always exhausted. You know. Somebody 61 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 2: even gone so far as to say, you know, you 62 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 2: should think seriously about doing this. It really changes your life. 63 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 2: And it really made me think about it. I think 64 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 2: since the turn of the century and the sort of 65 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 2: since we started having mummy bloggers, I think the whole 66 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 2: notion of talking about parenting has largely been and you know, 67 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 2: it's great just talk about the vulnerabilities and to be 68 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 2: open about it rather than simply just brushing it under 69 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 2: the carpet. But I do think that we've spoken so 70 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 2: much about how bad it is that we've forgotten to 71 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 2: talk about the joy of it. 72 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: Even as you're saying that, I'm thinking about mummy bloggers 73 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: and Insta mums and the TikTok parenting. I mean, it's 74 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: just it's almost rabid in some sections, and there's a 75 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: whole lot of people who are not experts who are 76 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: masquerading as experts and telling parents how to do it, 77 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: and for the most part, they make parenting look hard. 78 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: Like when you go away and try to be a 79 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: quote unquote gentle parent, it never quite works out the 80 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: way that it looks on social media. It looks really hard. 81 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: Question for you, did your parents complain about how hard 82 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: it was to be a parent like modern parents do? 83 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 2: Fantastic question, justin not at all. Never have, even now 84 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 2: my parents that they enveloped their grandchildren, they have them 85 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: living with them for periods of time. I've currently my 86 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 2: grandparents have one of their grandchildren from Japan living with 87 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 2: them for this year. They've had others living with them. 88 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 2: They have always embraced it and believed it just a 89 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 2: normal part of life that doesn't actually require as much 90 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 2: commentary as we currently give it. They always made growing up. 91 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: My mum always made me feel that I was myself 92 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 2: and my brothers were number one. Her life revolved she 93 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: was a teacher and a special needs teacher, so she 94 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 2: had a big job. She still sees kids along the way. 95 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 2: And I always felt like I was just the center 96 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 2: of her universe. And I interviewed her recently because she's 97 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 2: turning eighty, and I thought, and you know, even listening 98 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 2: to her, because I wanted to interview her just in 99 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 2: case was she ever to get to dementia or anything 100 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 2: like that. That I have a record of some parts 101 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 2: of her life, and what san through was just how 102 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 2: much she enjoyed it. She just enjoyed raising three kids. 103 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: But she did make the point there wasn't the expectation 104 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 2: for the children to perform, for the children to get 105 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 2: to this birthday party, for kids to look a certain 106 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 2: way on social media or to perform at school. We 107 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: just bumbled along and you know, I just went to 108 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 2: the local co ed secondary school, I felt and she 109 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 2: talked a little bit about where hunger came from kids 110 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: themselves rather than from expectations put on them from parents, 111 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 2: And I think that made it easier for parents and 112 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: easier for children. 113 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: Angela, this idea of your mum being fulfilled by the 114 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: role of mother, do you think that that fulfillment is 115 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: still evident in twenty twenty four. Do you think that 116 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: parents are looking at the role of parenting and saying, yes, 117 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: this is number one, what I'll be doing. I don't 118 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: have to opt in around, It's just what I do. 119 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: And number two, I expected to be fulfilling. And could 120 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:00,720 Speaker 1: that be part of the proper as well? For all 121 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 1: of those times, Let's face a lot of the time 122 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: parenting is not fulfilling. It is actually it's a bit 123 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: of a grind's what Tody, I'd be boring. 124 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 2: It can be grindy. We can. I think we measure 125 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 2: it more than we ever used to. We focus on 126 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,799 Speaker 2: outcomes more than just letting it flow. But to answer 127 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 2: your question about do you think it can be fulfilling. 128 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 2: The reason. One of the reasons I wat this piece 129 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 2: is that I woke up one morning from a text 130 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 2: from my daughter, who is twenty. She was upstairs. A 131 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 2: possum had got into her room at night, and she'd 132 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 2: sent me a message overnight saying, Mum, there's a possum 133 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 2: in my room. I didn't want to wake you up, 134 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 2: but I think it might be a two man job 135 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 2: to get rid of it. And I lay there in 136 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 2: bed before I jumped up and went to deal with 137 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 2: the possum. I lay there and thought, this little girl 138 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: used to come into my bedroom every night for a year. 139 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 2: It used to do my head, and it used to 140 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 2: be I was so tired. And then one day she 141 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 2: just stopped. And I realized that everything in parenting just passes, 142 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 2: and if you just go okay, this is just happening now. 143 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:01,799 Speaker 2: And now I have this twenty year old, this fully 144 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 2: girl and adult who dealt with this problem herself. Went 145 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 2: up there in the after I'd laying there for ten minutes, 146 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 2: just really reflecting on I've raised an adult and she 147 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 2: can now deal with things on her own, including a possum. 148 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 2: And I went upstairs and the possum had got itself 149 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 2: out through the window that had come in. There were 150 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 2: droppings all over her desk, next to her perfume bottles 151 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 2: and you know, and her books, and I just thought, wow, 152 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 2: I am so fortunate that this human I've created this 153 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 2: human and I get these experiences all the time. Look, 154 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 2: I will say there were moments in the park when 155 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 2: I was pushing them and I had a deadline, and 156 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 2: I you know, it wasn't I as a journalist. It 157 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 2: was I have a very sort of erratic working life. 158 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 2: But I'm really grateful. There's nothing in my life that 159 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 2: means more than them, and I'm so grateful I had them. 160 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 2: And I just don't hear that story anymore. I don't 161 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 2: hear the joy of it. I hear how tired is 162 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 2: how I need to have a glass of wine to 163 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 2: get through it. And I'm not critiquing any of that, 164 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 2: but I just wonder if we were more present with it, 165 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 2: and if we you know, one of the reasons I 166 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 2: wrote the headline is I did that you know it 167 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 2: needs a pr job. Is that the government, the treasurer 168 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 2: is talking about we need more kids. The birth rates 169 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 2: fall and it's dropped significantly in cities, but rather than 170 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 2: just saying have a child, we're not really showcasing how 171 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 2: joyous it can be. And the and I just think 172 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 2: if we can encourage more conversation about it so that 173 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 2: when that thirty year old sits down, we're thinking about 174 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 2: having a baby, the friend says, oh, yeah, we were, 175 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 2: you know, we had a hard night. But honestly, that smile, 176 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 2: that little smile just makes my day. I just don't 177 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 2: think we're hearing that we skew to the negative. 178 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: Angela. I've become a grandfather, and it's brought back the 179 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: most joyful and delightful parts of what parenting is. A 180 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: sense as I'm listening to what you're talking about that 181 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: a lot of people are focused on the short term. 182 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: And the short term is poo explosions that go up 183 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: the back and out the neck of the jumpsuit. The 184 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: short term is sleepless nights. The short term is I 185 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: don't want to eat my dinner on the green plate. 186 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: I want the blue plate. And of course we've got 187 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: things like diagnoses and the work, the work juggle, trying 188 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: to get family life around that. And yet I see 189 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: that little soon to be one year old smile at me, 190 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: and I just I almost want to weep. It's so gorgeous. 191 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 1: And the long term, the long term of parenting is, 192 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: as you've said, seeing this twenty year old deal with 193 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: the possum that got into the room overnight, and I 194 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: don't know, your child still managed to survive, didn't end 195 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: up with scratches and have her eyes gouged out by 196 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: by that possum. The long term is becoming a grandparent, 197 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: like I mean, that's a really long term play. But 198 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: oh my goodness, I'm getting weepy just thinking about it. 199 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: The long term is seeing your child achieve something where 200 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: they defy the odds. The fulfillment that comes from that 201 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: is so extraordinary. But I wonder, I wonder if you 202 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: were to reflect on what you wrote in this article 203 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 1: about parenting needing a pr job, and if you were 204 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: to take the straw man argument that so many make 205 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: that parenting is too hard and turn it into a 206 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: steel man where we argue that parenting is worth it 207 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: while still maintaining that sort of short term focus, because 208 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: when you're talking to a twenty four year old or 209 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: a thirty four year old, they're not really looking twenty 210 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: to thirty years down the track. They're just thinking, I've 211 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: got to go through twenty to thirty years of investment 212 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: and pain to get to this payoff that I'm describing. 213 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: How would you steal man that short term argument. 214 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 2: I'd go macro over micro. We're always thinking about the micro. 215 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 2: We're always thinking about this one minute when this kid 216 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 2: is putting their fingers into the power points, or when, 217 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 2: as you say, they want the green plate not the 218 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,599 Speaker 2: blue plate, or they have had a meltdown in the supermarket, 219 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 2: or they're not sleeping. That's all micro. Those are all micro, 220 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 2: just as you have micro experiences in the workplace you 221 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 2: as a journalist, I might spell something wrong, well there's 222 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 2: something grammatically incorrect, or I'm trying to get an interview 223 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 2: with someone and I don't get it. They're all micro. 224 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 2: The macro is that I've loved my journalism career. So 225 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: you can if you take a macro approach to parenting, 226 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 2: it's pulling back out from the micro. So actually draw 227 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 2: your lens back out as if you've got a camera 228 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 2: on it, sail above it, take a bird's eye view 229 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 2: on it, and think where will this be? You know, 230 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 2: what was it like for my parents? What was it 231 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 2: like when these children potentially do have grandchildren. Just pull 232 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 2: back the lens and think what could this be in 233 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 2: years to come. I can't you know, even if you 234 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 2: can't really envisage it, use your imagination, because there was 235 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 2: a reason you had them in the first place, right 236 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 2: you didn't just you know, most people would have planned 237 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 2: having a child. You would have imagined some kind of magic. Okay, 238 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 2: and the magic that created them were you all know, 239 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 2: the magic that mostly creates them. Sometimes there's you know, 240 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 2: there's other magic either year it's magic too. Try and 241 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 2: impart the magic that led you to create them to 242 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 2: the magic that you'll end up with in the end, 243 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 2: and not just in the end, ye every day some Yeah, 244 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 2: there might be something hard or something negative, but there's 245 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 2: still magic. But I think one of the hardest things 246 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 2: is that the negativity and round parenting has grown as 247 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 2: we've had dual working parents, and I think so we've 248 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 2: lent into that productivity means we do that it's a 249 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 2: different lifestyle, we have more kids in childcare. I totally 250 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 2: understand all of that, but I wonder if we also 251 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 2: think about legacy, Like I know a lot of kids 252 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 2: at school they do they do this thing in their 253 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 2: later years where they think about what their encouraged to 254 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 2: think about what their legacy will be. I think your 255 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 2: legacy when you're parenting. You know, I've had times when 256 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 2: I've given my all to my work, like I'm on 257 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 2: a deadline. Even the other night, my daughter wanted me 258 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 2: to watch the NRL with her, and I was trying 259 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 2: to deal with something sitting on there, and that later 260 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 2: that night I went, she just really wanted me to 261 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 2: watch the footy with her. Why did I not watch 262 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 2: the footy with her? I was just thinking I had 263 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 2: to deal with this thing right now. I think just 264 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 2: sometimes what is what's the end game here? And the 265 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 2: end game is that you have these beautiful people in 266 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 2: your lives forever more hopefully. 267 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: The key word perspective, Yeah, yeah. 268 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 2: It is. It really is perspective. And you know, I 269 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 2: don't know how we actually do it. I don't know 270 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 2: how we sell it, but it feels to me like 271 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 2: we need an add campaign around it, just as we 272 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 2: did were smoking and seat belts and if we really 273 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 2: want to encourage parenting and look, I did this child 274 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 2: Free by Choice feature last year three thousand words for 275 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 2: Weekend magazine for News Corp. And I was really interested 276 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 2: in what all these people had to say. A lot 277 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 2: of them was environmental, a lot of them was cost 278 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 2: of living issues. I understand that, I do understand how 279 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 2: expensive it is, but I wonder whether we were to 280 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 2: talk more about that moment when they snuggle into your 281 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 2: bed and all the lovely things that you get, you know, 282 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 2: when they talk to you, if you could record their 283 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 2: conversation and listen back to it sometimes, that's so funny. 284 00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,719 Speaker 2: My daughter when she was little, when she said, you know, 285 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 2: it was asking about how she was born, and she said, 286 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 2: you know, when you were pregnant with me, if I 287 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 2: did a handstand, if you did a handstand, would you 288 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 2: would I have come out your mouth like that. She 289 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 2: couldn't conceive of how you could have a baby, and 290 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 2: you tell me and it not fall out. I just 291 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:15,599 Speaker 2: I don't know. I just think there's magic that you 292 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 2: don't expect and that we don't give up on it, 293 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 2: but we we forget it. 294 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: Angela, I want to share a story with you. It's 295 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: a story that I've shared in my presentations over the years, 296 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: and I'd love to get your reaction to it as 297 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: we come to a conclusion. The story's actually got nothing 298 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: to do with parenting. It's a story about a young 299 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: man who heard about a gold rush in the west, 300 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: so he packed up his things and decided to go 301 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: and make his fortune. He sat down by the river 302 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: and he panned day after day after day looking for 303 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: all of the gold that he was hearing about. Nuggets 304 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: were apparently rolling down the river, and all he was 305 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: finding was rocks. He'd pull another rock out of the 306 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: pan and add it to the pile beside him, day 307 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: after day after day, all of these rocks mounting up 308 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: beside him, until he's destitute. He's got nothing left, and 309 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: he knows that he's going to have to go home 310 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: and ask his parents to take him back so he 311 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: can start his life all over again, just a lot 312 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: poorer than he had been before he went out to 313 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: the gold fields. As he was preparing to pack up 314 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: and leave, an old man, a wealthy prospector walked past 315 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: him and kicked at the pile of rocks and made 316 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: the astute comment, that's quite a pile of rocks you've 317 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: got there, to which the young man responded, there's no 318 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: gold here, just stupid rocks. I've worked, I've given everything, 319 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: I've lost everything. I'm going home. The old man picks 320 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: up one of the rocks and he cracks it open 321 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: on the edge of the pan, and as he holds 322 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: it open, a whole lot of gold flecks glisten reflecting 323 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: in the sun. And the wise old prospector says, you're 324 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: sitting on a pile of gold right here. The young 325 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: man responds, no, no, no, no no, I'm not looking for 326 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: gold flex. I'm looking for nuggets like you've got in 327 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: your pouch. The old man opens the pouch that's on 328 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: his belt, and the young man is chagrined, surprised to 329 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: see that the pouch is full not of nuggets, but 330 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: of gold flex, to which the old man responds, young man, 331 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: it's a steady accumulation of these flecks of gold that 332 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: has made me rich. As I hear you talk about parenting, 333 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: needing a PR job, and the things that you've shared 334 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: in this podcast, which have just been beautiful, so heartwarming, 335 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: my sense is that the best PR job we could 336 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: have is to notice the thousands of flex of gold 337 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: that passed by us every single day in the river 338 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: of family life. 339 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 2: I love that it's kind of like glimmers, isn't it 340 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 2: noticing glimmers. I've saw that word recently. When something just 341 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 2: glimmers it catches your eye. It doesn't have to last 342 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 2: very long. It's just a moment. It's just a moment. 343 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 2: Inhabit it, see it, feel it, because that's all we 344 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 2: ever have is glimmers. And you know, there is not 345 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 2: some moment that you arrive at some imagine tomorrow that 346 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 2: is perfect with you know your child is perfect. That's 347 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 2: just what life is. It's just this parenting. It's an 348 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 2: opportunity to be at the cold face of life, doing 349 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 2: it beautifully some days, and struggling the days and just 350 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 2: in finding it all and wretching because if it's all 351 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 2: just smooth and even that's not a life, it's never 352 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 2: going to be a life. So parenting's the same. It's 353 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 2: an appreciation that it's going to be. You know, it's 354 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 2: going to have moments. But as you say, and as 355 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 2: that story shows, it's really choosing what you see. It's 356 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 2: choosing what you notice. And if you choose to notice 357 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 2: the negative, that's what your story will be. If you 358 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 2: choose to notice those little flecks of gold, that's what 359 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 2: your story will be. 360 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: Parenting needs a pr fix. Angela Mollard. I vote for 361 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: you as the person to lead the campaign. 362 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 2: Oh like you, Justin Miner are a bit more grown 363 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 2: up now, so I'm handing the baton on to the 364 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,719 Speaker 2: younger parents. But talk about it, talk about the great stuff. 365 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: Well, there's something that comes though with being an older 366 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: parent and having been through it, you can see why 367 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: it's so worthwhile. I think you've done a beautiful job 368 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 1: articulating that today. Thank you for your article and thanks 369 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: for chatting with me. 370 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 2: Thanks Justin. It's a pleasure. 371 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:04,479 Speaker 1: Angela Mollardist, journalist, radio, television, magazine and newspaper, writer and 372 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: commentator and all the rest of it. Most regularly with 373 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: the News Corp papers on a range of topics, including 374 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: the one that we shouldn't leave alone, parenting. The Happy 375 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 1: Families podcast is produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media. 376 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: For more information about finding the joy in parenting, please 377 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: visit us at happy Families dot com dot you and 378 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: check out my book What Your Child Needs from You. 379 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 1: It is a book about the joy of parenting and 380 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: I think that it will help you to get the 381 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: reset that you need to make your family happier.