WEBVTT - The true story behind Apple Cider Vinegar

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<v Speaker 1>Already, and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Friday,

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<v Speaker 2>the fourteenth of February. Have you Valentine's Day? What are

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<v Speaker 2>you going to say to you? Have we gone my

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<v Speaker 2>Valentine's Day with not?

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<v Speaker 1>Like we don't spend too much time together already. Maybe

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<v Speaker 1>for Valentine's Day we can get a break from each other.

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<v Speaker 2>It does sound like quite the gift. We should definitely

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<v Speaker 2>work towards it. Next here now on today's podcast, we're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about the story behind the biggest Netflix show at

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<v Speaker 2>the moment. Since Apple Cider Vinegar was released just over

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<v Speaker 2>a week ago, it's been streamed nearly four million times

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<v Speaker 2>and it's made it into the top five of the

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<v Speaker 2>Streaming Services global charts. Now, this series follows the rise

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<v Speaker 2>of Australian wellness blogger Belle Gibson. If you're not familiar

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<v Speaker 2>with Belle Gibson, she claims she had been diagnosed with

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<v Speaker 2>a malignant brain camp and then said that she was

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<v Speaker 2>treating her cancer with a strict health routine. In twenty thirteen,

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<v Speaker 2>she began documenting her treatment journey online and a mass

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<v Speaker 2>hundreds of thousands of Instagram followers. Everyone's talking about Belle

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<v Speaker 2>Gibson at the moment, and I think yesterday you and

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<v Speaker 2>I realized that there are two camps of people, people

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<v Speaker 2>like us who have followed and been obsessed with the

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<v Speaker 2>story of bell Gibson for a very long time, and

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<v Speaker 2>people that are learning about her now for the very

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<v Speaker 2>first time.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's interesting that people who are learning about the

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<v Speaker 1>story of Belle Gibson for the first time. It's kind

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<v Speaker 1>of this new wave of shock that this story exists. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>because it is so surprising and shocking. That's not a

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<v Speaker 1>word that I like to use often, but it really

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<v Speaker 1>is a shocking story. So we're going to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>Belle Gibson's lies that came to like a decade ago.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's start with who Belle Gibson was before she rose

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<v Speaker 1>to prominence.

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<v Speaker 2>So Annabelle Natalie Gibson was born in October of nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>ninety one, and hold onto that because that becomes a

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<v Speaker 2>contentious fact down the road.

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<v Speaker 1>You'd think of birthday, I know, you'd think it's it.

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<v Speaker 2>Was not going to be contentious, but it really is.

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<v Speaker 2>So Belle Gibson was raised in suburban Brisbane by her mother,

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<v Speaker 2>and she also had one brother. In interviews, Gibson described

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<v Speaker 2>her childhood as being difficult. She said she was burdened

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<v Speaker 2>by responsibilities like caring for her brother. Her high school

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<v Speaker 2>teachers described her as a great student and a high achiever.

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<v Speaker 2>Now during that time, she also took acting classes outside

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<v Speaker 2>of school, and her drama teacher reports that from the

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<v Speaker 2>time that she was quite good at acting. Her friends

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<v Speaker 2>from her childhood have told journalists in the years since

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<v Speaker 2>this whole story began to unravel that Gibson became known

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<v Speaker 2>for compulsively lying and that people made fun of her

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<v Speaker 2>in her childhood because of it. They claimed the Gibson

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<v Speaker 2>would make up things about her life, things like being

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<v Speaker 2>in witness protection or surviving major health ish shoes. Then,

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<v Speaker 2>at eighteen, Bell Gibson moved to Perth and that is

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<v Speaker 2>when her storytelling moved from in real life to the Internet.

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<v Speaker 1>So she started sharing stories on the internet. I presume

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<v Speaker 1>this was pre Instagram. Where did she first start?

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<v Speaker 2>There is, well, pre Instagram.

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<v Speaker 1>So where was she sharing those stories?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're right, it was pre Instagram. So she started

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<v Speaker 2>blogging in an online chat room. So we're talking about

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<v Speaker 2>two thousand and nine. Here she'd write about being in

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<v Speaker 2>a hospital. She'd write about undergoing tests for a heart

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<v Speaker 2>tumor and preparing for chemo. She said she'd had major

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<v Speaker 2>heart surgery and then eventually claimed she was diagnosed with

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<v Speaker 2>terminal brain cancer and only had a few months left

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<v Speaker 2>to live. And this is really the crux of the story,

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<v Speaker 2>and it really was the center of her story and

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<v Speaker 2>what she told her followers at the time. Gibson said

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<v Speaker 2>a cervical cancer vaccination had caused her to have a

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<v Speaker 2>stroke and then somehow that stroke led to brain cancer.

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<v Speaker 2>I do just want to, you know, for full clarity

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<v Speaker 2>here say, the HPV vaccine, which is the vaccine that

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<v Speaker 2>can prevent cervical cancer, has not been linked to brain

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<v Speaker 2>cancer or strokes. But Gibson's anti vaccine narrative is really

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<v Speaker 2>critical to this story because it's why she claims she

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<v Speaker 2>didn't want to undergo conventional cancer treatment, things like chemotherapy

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<v Speaker 2>or radiotherapy that are traditionally used to respond to a cancer,

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<v Speaker 2>and so she says that set her down an alternative

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<v Speaker 2>therapy path. In twenty ten, Gibson moved to Melbourne, so

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<v Speaker 2>started in Perth move to Melbourne to undergo treatment with

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<v Speaker 2>a neurologist and an immunologist. She claimed his name was

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<v Speaker 2>doctor Mark Johns from Melbourne's Peter Mack, but there is

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<v Speaker 2>no record of a doctor by that name at the center.

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<v Speaker 2>She also gave birth to her son at that time.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so she starts posting on social media about her diagnoses,

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<v Speaker 1>alleged diagnoses. What kind of conversations were people having online

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty ten when she started posting this.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's interesting, and I guess it's strange for us

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<v Speaker 2>to consider now. But back then, when Bell Gibson first

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<v Speaker 2>started posting about these diagnoses and then her alternative treatment methods,

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<v Speaker 2>we hadn't really had these big national conversations about wellness.

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<v Speaker 2>So she was really part of this growing online movement,

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<v Speaker 2>the wellness movement back in twenty ten. At the time,

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<v Speaker 2>that online movement was really being led by a young

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<v Speaker 2>woman called jess Ainsco.

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<v Speaker 1>And for those listening who have been watching the Netflix show,

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<v Speaker 1>you might know that there is a character on there

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<v Speaker 1>that is called Miller Blake in Appleside of Vinegar. So

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<v Speaker 1>is that person, jess Ainsco? Is that who the character

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<v Speaker 1>Miller Blake is based on?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it is, And so she's really considered this like

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<v Speaker 2>original wellness warrior. So I'll just give a bit of

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<v Speaker 2>context as to who she is. I think at orients

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<v Speaker 2>us in how big this movement became. So at twenty three,

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<v Speaker 2>Jests was diagnosed with an extremely rare and aggressive cancer

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<v Speaker 2>in her left arm and hand, and she was told

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<v Speaker 2>her best chance of survival was amputation, but she rejected

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<v Speaker 2>that recommended treatment in favor of an alternative therapy. It's

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<v Speaker 2>called Gerson therapy, which was a food based protocol that

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<v Speaker 2>basically claims to cure illness, including cancer, with an all

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<v Speaker 2>vegetarian diet and these juices. If you've watched the show,

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<v Speaker 2>you can see those juices in it. Now, there's no

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<v Speaker 2>scientific evidence that Gerson therapy cures cancer, and tragically Jess

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<v Speaker 2>died in twenty fifteen. But before that point she believed

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<v Speaker 2>this treatment was her medicine, and she built up an

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<v Speaker 2>online profile by promoting this belief and promoting these juices

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<v Speaker 2>and how she believed she was treating herself. Now, Belle

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<v Speaker 2>Gibson bringing it back to her, saw Jess sharing her

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<v Speaker 2>treatment journey online, saw her gaining a following, and decided

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<v Speaker 2>that she was going to do the same thing.

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<v Speaker 1>And how did she do that? How did Belle Gibson

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<v Speaker 1>grow an audience on Instagram.

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<v Speaker 2>It's interesting because today on TikTok, this very unpolished like

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<v Speaker 2>day in the life content goes viral. It's very normal

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<v Speaker 2>for us to see. But back then, Instagram was still

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<v Speaker 2>this kind of highlights reel of the best of someone's life.

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<v Speaker 2>And so what Gibson did, and I suppose did differently,

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<v Speaker 2>is that she spoke really candidly on Instagram about the

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<v Speaker 2>highs and lows of her life. So she was documenting

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<v Speaker 2>things about, you know, what she was cooking, but then

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<v Speaker 2>she was also talking about her cancer, and she was

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<v Speaker 2>also talking about how she was treating herself. Her follow

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<v Speaker 2>up base grew pretty quickly, and within a year her

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<v Speaker 2>ideas were turned into an app called The Whole Pantry.

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<v Speaker 2>Now it was full of lifestyle and wellness tips and

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<v Speaker 2>all the food that Belle said she was eating and

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<v Speaker 2>the recipes behind them. It became really big, this app.

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<v Speaker 2>It won a bunch of awards, and then Apple got

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<v Speaker 2>behind it and announced that it would be introduced on

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<v Speaker 2>the first Apple Watch, and so people when they bought

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<v Speaker 2>the Apple Watch, yeah, the Whole Pantry was there and

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<v Speaker 2>This all also then led to a book deal. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>the whole pantry book was filled with recipes and words

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<v Speaker 2>about Gibson's cancer battle, and that book became a bestseller,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was reading yesterday, I'm pretty sure her advance

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<v Speaker 2>was well over one hundred thousand dollars for that book, which,

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<v Speaker 2>in author speak, shows that this was a big deal.

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<v Speaker 1>And did anyone question the legitimacy of her claims about

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<v Speaker 1>her health?

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<v Speaker 2>Honestly, no nobody did. At that time. Bell's followers were

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<v Speaker 2>constantly commenting messages of support and of sympathy for her.

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<v Speaker 2>She had signed a deal with a major publishing house.

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<v Speaker 2>She had, as I just said, signed this deal with Apple.

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<v Speaker 2>People loved her recipes. With all of these legitimate companies

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<v Speaker 2>backing her, I guess it was very normal for people

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<v Speaker 2>not to doubt her. Why would there be this huge

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<v Speaker 2>endorsement of someone and their story by these massive companies

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<v Speaker 2>if it was all a fake, If it was all

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<v Speaker 2>a fraud, and so there was no reason back then

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<v Speaker 2>for people to doubt what she was saying.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, even today, if you saw online that someone was

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<v Speaker 1>saying that they had been diagnosed with cancer, it would

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<v Speaker 1>be very odd to question that yeah, to ask for

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<v Speaker 1>medical certificates to question that, okay, But obviously the tide

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<v Speaker 1>did start to turn against Belle Gibson. At what point

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<v Speaker 1>did the cracks start to show.

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<v Speaker 2>It was twenty fifteen and the whole pantry had become

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<v Speaker 2>this hugely successful app, blog, and book. Gibson had also

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<v Speaker 2>claimed that she was donating large chunks of money to

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<v Speaker 2>charity throughout this success, But things shifted when publications and

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<v Speaker 2>journals right across the country received an anonymous email at

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<v Speaker 2>the same time basically detailing Belle's fake diagnosis. Two reporters

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<v Speaker 2>with The Age in Melbourne started looking into the allegations

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<v Speaker 2>raised by that email.

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<v Speaker 1>And what I know about how this worked is that

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<v Speaker 1>the journalists started to look into it and they found

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<v Speaker 1>it very difficult to prove one way or another whether

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<v Speaker 1>this diagnosis was real. And so their belief, their working belief,

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<v Speaker 1>was that if she's lying potentially about this, then what

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<v Speaker 1>else is she lying about? And so that's when they

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<v Speaker 1>started looking at potential charity donations that she had claimed

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<v Speaker 1>she had made. Is that right?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that is right. So the Age journals who were

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<v Speaker 2>working on this, Nick Toscano and Bo Donnelle initially contacted

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<v Speaker 2>Gibson for clarification, as you said, around those donations. She

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<v Speaker 2>was actually at the funeral of Jess who I mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>earlier when they first tried to contact her. But after

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<v Speaker 2>a few days when she couldn't explain how much of

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<v Speaker 2>the money she was making was going to charity, that's

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<v Speaker 2>when they started investigating further and they found out that

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<v Speaker 2>most of the charities that Gibson had claimed to be

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<v Speaker 2>supporting had never received any money from her. Others had

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<v Speaker 2>received small donations, but only in the days after those

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<v Speaker 2>journals had actually contacted her, So after she knew that

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<v Speaker 2>there was potentially a story coming.

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<v Speaker 1>And then I presume from there they just kept contacting

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<v Speaker 1>her and kept asking for receipts that she could not provide.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they put a list of extensive questions to Gibson,

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<v Speaker 2>and when she failed to provide answers or satisfactory answers

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<v Speaker 2>to any of their queries, the Age then ran a

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<v Speaker 2>story exposing Belle Gibson's.

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<v Speaker 1>Lies and what was the fallout from there?

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<v Speaker 2>So Gibson then did an interview with the Australian Women's

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<v Speaker 2>Weekly and she basically confirmed none of.

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<v Speaker 1>It was true, which is wild wild.

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<v Speaker 2>Even then though, she claimed she'd been tricked into believing

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<v Speaker 2>that she had cancer, rather than admitting she was perfectly healthy. Now.

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<v Speaker 2>There was a really, really strong reaction from her followers,

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<v Speaker 2>including people who had donated money to support her and

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<v Speaker 2>to support her ventures, but also from vulnerable cancer sufferers

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<v Speaker 2>who had heard continued messages about alternative therapies working for

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<v Speaker 2>Gibson but her not actually, you know, ever having a

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<v Speaker 2>diagnosis in the first place. The outrage led to an

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<v Speaker 2>iconic sixty minutes interview which some listeners might remember.

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<v Speaker 3>You prepared to sign a statutory declaration to say that

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<v Speaker 3>everything you tell me today is the truth absolutely because

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<v Speaker 3>you don't have a good record on telling the truth.

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<v Speaker 3>Do There's nothing left to lose, and if that requires

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<v Speaker 3>a stat deck, then I'm comfortable with that.

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<v Speaker 1>I went back and watched that interview the other day,

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<v Speaker 1>just as a thing to do on a Sunday afternoon.

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<v Speaker 2>It's crazy, it's why old.

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<v Speaker 1>The fact that she kind of ever thought that it

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<v Speaker 1>was I mean, clearly her judgment is extremely flawed, but

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that after she was caught out on all

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<v Speaker 1>of these lies, that she thought it was a good

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<v Speaker 1>idea to do this interview with sixty minutes. It's hard

0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:57.880
<v Speaker 1>to understand her mindset.

0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.920
<v Speaker 2>It is, and I think you know, words are narcissism

0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:03.360
<v Speaker 2>and things like that get thrown around when talking about

0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.240
<v Speaker 2>someone like Belle Gibson. But think when you watch that

0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.440
<v Speaker 2>interview and you think about this story, this isn't just

0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:13.160
<v Speaker 2>a story of someone lying and perhaps profiting off that lie.

0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.839
<v Speaker 2>I think what I mentioned before is really what makes

0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:20.120
<v Speaker 2>this story so unbelievable, which is that so many vulnerable women,

0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:25.679
<v Speaker 2>usually who were sick themselves, followed this plan or this

0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:30.120
<v Speaker 2>alternative therapy that was rooted in nothing in lies. And

0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.880
<v Speaker 2>so you know, there was so much public outcry, as

0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:37.240
<v Speaker 2>you said, and then especially after that sixty minutes interview

0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:39.560
<v Speaker 2>where she had said that she wanted to do the

0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.920
<v Speaker 2>interview to be transparent and to apologize and to explain.

0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:46.880
<v Speaker 2>But then as the interview at Tara Brown discovered it

0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:50.079
<v Speaker 2>was just a lot of excuses from someone who essentially

0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:51.480
<v Speaker 2>just didn't want to tell the truth.

0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:54.559
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so it was clear that she had lied. There

0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.240
<v Speaker 1>weren't really any satisfactory answers that came to light. She

0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.839
<v Speaker 1>kept giving excuses. She still maintained that she had been

0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.840
<v Speaker 1>given these diagnoses, but that the doctors were the ones

0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:07.680
<v Speaker 1>that lied, not her. That obviously led to a public fallout.

0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:11.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm interested in what happened to her corporate relationships, like

0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:15.040
<v Speaker 1>her for Bolstered, Yeah, like the book publisher that you mentioned,

0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:15.840
<v Speaker 1>and like Apple.

0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So she lost the support of Apple and her

0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.920
<v Speaker 2>publishers pretty quickly after the truth came to light. But

0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.560
<v Speaker 2>then there was also the question of criminal ramifications, because

0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, the corporate deals are one thing, but had

0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:33.400
<v Speaker 2>she broken the law here. Victoria's Consumer affairs Minister Jane

0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:35.960
<v Speaker 2>Garrett told the ABC at the time that the watchdog

0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.920
<v Speaker 2>would take civil action in the federal court against Gibson

0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:44.760
<v Speaker 2>and her now defunct company for misleading and deceptive conduct.

0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:47.960
<v Speaker 2>At the time, Garrett said, all of those claims made

0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.800
<v Speaker 2>by her around when she suffered the illness, her therapies

0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:53.080
<v Speaker 2>in respect of that illness, and what she did with

0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:57.160
<v Speaker 2>her own alternative remedies are false and misleading and deceptive.

0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.200
<v Speaker 2>We will be seeking penalties to ensure that conduct is

0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:04.640
<v Speaker 2>not undertaken again. In March twenty seventeen, the federal court

0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:08.160
<v Speaker 2>upheld most but not all, of the allegations against Gibson

0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.800
<v Speaker 2>and her company, finding that she had engaged in misleading

0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:13.480
<v Speaker 2>and deceptive conduct.

0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:14.600
<v Speaker 1>And what was that fine?

0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:17.560
<v Speaker 2>So she was fine more than four hundred k's four

0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:22.120
<v Speaker 2>hundred thousand dollars for several breaches. Additional legal action was

0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:26.320
<v Speaker 2>launched in twenty eighteen because those fines were still unpaid.

0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.200
<v Speaker 2>That in twenty nineteen, Gibson appeared in court and claimed

0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:32.880
<v Speaker 2>she couldn't afford to pay the fine. There have been

0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.000
<v Speaker 2>multiple raids of her Melbourne homes in an effort to

0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:39.040
<v Speaker 2>recoup some of that debt, which has since increased to

0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.320
<v Speaker 2>more than five hundred thousand dollars. So we're talking about

0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:44.560
<v Speaker 2>half a million dollars here. But all those years later,

0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.520
<v Speaker 2>authorities are still chasing her for the money and she

0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:51.800
<v Speaker 2>still hasn't paid it. Now, bringing this story into today

0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:56.200
<v Speaker 2>and today's news cycle, Victorian Premier Justinto Allen was asked

0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:59.200
<v Speaker 2>about this and she said this week that Consumer's Affair

0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:03.480
<v Speaker 2>Victoria is pursuing this constantly and consistently and won't let up.

0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:06.320
<v Speaker 1>And could someone go to jail for not paying a

0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.640
<v Speaker 1>five hundred k fine after however many years it's been

0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:10.360
<v Speaker 1>eight years.

0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:14.840
<v Speaker 2>Look, breaching consumer law isn't the same as being convicted

0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:18.280
<v Speaker 2>of a crime, and to this day, Gibson hasn't actually

0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:21.520
<v Speaker 2>been prosecuted or found guilty in a criminal.

0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:25.440
<v Speaker 1>Court, and Belle Gibson, from my understanding, has largely retreated

0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.440
<v Speaker 1>from public life as one would after something like this

0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.400
<v Speaker 1>comes out. Do we have any information about where she

0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:31.920
<v Speaker 1>is now?

0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:35.720
<v Speaker 2>So in twenty twenty, Belle Gibson appeared essentially to have

0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:40.880
<v Speaker 2>completely reinvented herself. We understand that she converted to Islam,

0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:45.680
<v Speaker 2>and she immersed herself in a Victorian Ethiopian migrant community

0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.560
<v Speaker 2>video circulated on social media, in which Belle claimed that

0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:53.520
<v Speaker 2>her heart was deeply embedded with this community. She said

0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:57.560
<v Speaker 2>that she felt blessed to have been adopted. Photographs from

0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:01.000
<v Speaker 2>the time also show Belle volunteering at an Ethiopian food

0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:05.280
<v Speaker 2>truck and wearing a traditional beaded head dress. But community

0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:09.720
<v Speaker 2>leaders have since distanced themselves from Gibson, and that brings

0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.440
<v Speaker 2>us to twenty twenty one, because from that point, there's

0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.080
<v Speaker 2>essentially not a whole lot that we know about bell Gibson.

0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:17.600
<v Speaker 2>In the age of you know, at twenty four hour

0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:19.880
<v Speaker 2>news cycle and everyone having a phone in their hands,

0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:24.560
<v Speaker 2>it's quite remarkable how unseen she is despite being so

0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:28.680
<v Speaker 2>well known, but the renewed interest in Bell Gibson from

0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.800
<v Speaker 2>the Netflix show has brought her story to new audiences,

0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:34.480
<v Speaker 2>as we mentioned at the top, so it'll be super

0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.479
<v Speaker 2>interesting to see if anything changes from this point.

0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:40.520
<v Speaker 1>I find it astonishing that we literally know nothing nothing

0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:44.119
<v Speaker 1>about her in the past four years, Like it's like

0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:46.200
<v Speaker 1>she has completely disappeared.

0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:48.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we don't even know what she looks like nowadays.

0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:49.080
<v Speaker 3>Zara.

0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for explaining that, and thank you

0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.200
<v Speaker 1>so much for listening to this episode of The Daily os.

0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:57.960
<v Speaker 1>We'll be back this afternoon with your afternoon headlines, but

0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:04.560
<v Speaker 1>until then, have a great day. My name is Lily

0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:08.000
<v Speaker 1>Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bungelung Kalkudin woman from

0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:12.359
<v Speaker 1>Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is

0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:14.879
<v Speaker 1>recorded on the lands of the Gadighl people and pays

0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:18.120
<v Speaker 1>respect to all Aboriginal and torrest Rate island and nations.

0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:21.360
<v Speaker 1>We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,

0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:22.680
<v Speaker 1>both past and present.