WEBVTT - Why Do Australians Hate Successful People?🏆🇦🇺 0:00:01.560 --> 0:00:02.920 Flex and Frooms. 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:05.280 Flex and Fromes. This is the Flex and Frooms catch 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:06.000 up podcast. 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:09.559 It is Flexing Frooms com Cat. We must discuss I 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:11.960 think we might be overdue for this discussion anyway. Why 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:15.480 do Australians hate successful people? You might feel a little 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:17.280 bit taken aback by that statement. I say it one 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:21.320 more time so it really hits. Why do Australians hate 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:27.040 successful people? You might say, no, we don't. We love 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:30.800 successful people. Then what is tall poppy syndrome? Please? I 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:33.279 didn't make that up? Frooms. Did you make that up? 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:35.600 No? But I've definitely all across. 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.159 It, heard of it one too many times. It factors 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.879 into one too many conversations For those of you who 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:43.760 aren aware what tall poppy syndrome is. It's a social 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:48.360 phenomenon in Australia, specifically to describe someone who stands out 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:52.879 from the crowd due to their success. Tall poppy syndrome, however, 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:58.200 is involves when we attack, scrutinize, discredit, or criticize, or 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:02.520 generally dislike someone in the public eye who is experiencing 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:05.840 any level of success above our own. And in other words, 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:10.280 to participate in tall poppy syndrome is to cut down 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:13.240 the tall poppy the person who is standing out from 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:15.920 the crowd. Now, if you look at a field of 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.040 poppy flowers, a tall poppy, you know. So if you 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:21.400 look at a field of poppy flowers, they're usually growing 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:24.480 to like the same height until they look beautiful and 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:27.320 red and everything's uniform, and every now and then there'd 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:29.680 be a couple of poppies that are higher than the rest, 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:31.600 and so you have to cut them down so they 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:35.560 don't ruin the landscape. That's where that comes from. Cool now, cool. 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:39.560 We love when things make sense. Now you might be 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.120 the victim of tall poppy syndromes. I feel like a 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:44.319 lot of people don't really know if they're being sensitive. 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:46.800 What if they call it sensitive snowflake, or if you 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:54.440 actually are experiencing an exceptional level of critique or disrepute 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:57.320 for just being good at something right. So, if you're 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:00.440 not sure if you've experienced it, I'm going to for instances. 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:04.840 Article from Refinery twenty nine by Vanna O'Brien unpacking everything 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:07.960 about tall poppy syndrome. But part of the characteristics of 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:13.160 a victim of this syndrome is hesitating to hesitating to 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:17.080 or feeling embarrassed in sharing your success, for example, the 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:19.480 news of a promotion at work with your colleagues or 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.000 at pay rise, or telling a friend you know who 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:25.000 is in the same level of success you are about 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:29.200 what you're doing, Feeling ashamed to promote your achievements achievements online, 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:31.840 feeling the need to downplay your skills or hide them away, 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:35.720 socially monitoring yourself out of fear of being perceived as arrogant. Now, 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:38.400 I didn't think I had tall Poppy syndrome, I said, 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:41.960 not me, not me. I don't have that. However, up 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:44.239 until very recently, I was having a conversation with Rooms 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:46.200 a couple of weeks ago, and I said, I don't 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:48.960 like to use my Instagram as promotional channel as much 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:53.400 as I should, because it feels embarrassing to say, Hey, everyone, Reminder, 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:56.120 I'm a best selling author. Reminder I wrote a really 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.440 amazing book. Reminder of an amazing business. It just doesn't 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:03.040 feel appropriate. That's the way they kept coming up. Oh, like, 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:05.040 it just feels a bit weird considering the state of 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:07.200 the world. Lah la lah, But the Instagram is my 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.880 place of business. Would I go into a butcher and 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:12.680 if the butcher's it feels weird to talk about what 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:14.919 meets we have on sale right now, considering the state 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.120 of the world. No, tell me what you have going 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:19.280 on so I can know whether or not to participate whatever, whatever, 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:22.280 whatever Now. Coming up after the break, I want to 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:25.800 discuss podcasts. No sorry, Coming up on the podcast, I 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:29.440 want to discuss on the adverse, how to stop being 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:31.760 a perpetrator of top poppy syndrome. This is one of 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:33.560 those things where you'd be like, no, not me. I 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:36.120 would never cut somebody down. I want us all to win. 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:37.480 Rahh. 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:40.440 You've definitely done it before, and what better time than 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:43.600 the present to really catch us catch ourselves up on 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:48.080 being you know, people who sometimes do bad things. So, 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:51.000 still referencing that Refinery twenty nine article, you might be 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:53.800 the perpetrator of tall poppy syndrome if you find yourself 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:56.760 being jealous of a friend after they announce a milestone. 0:03:56.960 --> 0:03:58.880 You go out of your way to ignore a colleague 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:01.320 who has earned a promotion or a pay increase. You 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:04.240 frequently gossip about how unimpressed you are with a certain 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:07.360 celebrity or someone. When you found fame, you exclude someone 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:09.600 socially who you don't want to be compared to you 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.800 feel inadequate when you hear about someone's success. The question 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:17.719 I post is why do Australians hate successful people? 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.640 I have some ideas, yes, okay, when it comes to 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:26.640 the media industry in Australia, I believe that like unlike 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:31.080 America and the UK, there are less opportunities, right Like, 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:33.479 I think that is an actual fact. So therefore, I 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:35.880 think the tall poppy thing because we are a small 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:40.039 we have like small dog syndrome. We're like Chihuahua Nation, 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:42.800 where we're like, well, don't get too big. You're still 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:46.240 from Australia, and our whole culture is like down, like 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:49.680 it's built into our DNA in white Australia is to 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:53.919 be like oh nah nah, like oh yeah nah, Like 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:56.920 even that phrase yeah nah is just so like downplay 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:02.280 downplay down by predictions, contradictions absolutely. So I also think 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.479 there's like this, I'm sure this is the same in 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:09.320 a lot of countries, but this like needing to all 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:12.840 be uniform and like to not speak out, not be 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:15.960 not be annoying, like just go with the status quo, 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:18.440 be chill. I feel like we're very like let's be 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:22.920 chill Nation. And I think we also find pride, like 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.839 I've heard all the time through my whole life, being 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:29.960 like Americans like motor bot, not motor boat, Americans like 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:35.200 show boat, like they always want to talk about that 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:39.679 their success at sickening. We find it sickening. But then yeah, 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:43.400 I also think that it happens to more women than 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:49.440 men because I also see it in my own experience. Well, 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:53.279 that's because I'm being more threatened by women because there's 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.919 less opportunities for us as well. Does that make sense? 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:58.080 It makes sense, so. 0:05:59.880 --> 0:06:03.000 I completely it completely makes sense why this is the 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:05.480 thing in Australia, and I have seen it in myself 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:07.720 and something that I had to work on is when 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:11.160 I feel jealous of someone, my instinct is to want 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:14.080 to talk to someone about it, to try and think, oh, 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:16.960 but you think they're annoying too, right, or you think this, 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:23.039 or you think that. And being on the receiving end 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:27.240 of like working in the media, it's and worrying that, 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:30.840 Like it's hard to know if someone being tall poppy, 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:34.800 if I'm being criticized or am I actually being X 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:36.200 y Z. Does that make sense? 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:38.240 Yeah, it does makes it of sense. How do you 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:42.800 think tall poppy syndrome manifests like not in a work. 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:50.240 Context, yes, or like socially yeah, probably like saying someone, 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:53.440 why does it happen socially? Because I think socially is 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:55.760 the same as work in terms of wanting to see 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:58.360 where you are on the pecking order. That's actually what 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:00.880 work is about as well. I think is this order situation? 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:07.159 So you want to think, oh, well there, I think 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:15.680 I remember, Like it's like if someone is not naturally blonde, 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:18.080 you want to say, oh, no, like they're not naturally blond. 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:20.880 Are they're only hot because they've got fake natural blonde hair? 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:22.760 Does that make sense? 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:24.840 This one's a bit too rare for me. I don't 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:27.040 really know this culture. 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:29.280 We've spoken about it for like the blonde hair thing 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:30.440 where people want to say they've. 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:35.600 Spoken about like blonde supremacy, blonde hierarchies. But I was 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:37.680 when I spoke about it was because I was I 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:39.440 was seeing it for the first time. I was like, oh, 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:41.680 this is It's not a joke. It's a real thing 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:44.880 between blondes and brunettes and redheads and where they sit 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:47.360 in the hierarchy and what it means for them. But 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:51.000 in the sense I don't know this tall poppy thing. 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:55.400 It feels like a self fulfilling prophecy because the same 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:59.760 people who would say it's an issue, I'm sure keep 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:04.680 it sutors of it as well, the weird thing. And 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:06.520 I get what you were saying, this idea of like 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:08.920 there's only space for a few, there's only space for 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:12.160 a few, there's only space for a few. And I 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:14.920 think the reason why, and because we've had conversations about 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:16.880 professional jealousy as well, and I think the reason why 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:18.920 I don't feel is jealous because don't feel like I 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.080 should be here anyway. I don't feel like I'm in 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:23.760 competition with a lot of people because Australian media is 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:26.600 so white, so I feel like if I'm in these spaces, 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:29.000 I'm not compared in a lot of ways. So I 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:31.600 don't feel like the next person is coming to get 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:34.240 what's mine, because there is no next person. And so 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.719 that's why in the past I've had peas to be like, 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:40.040 oh my god, you're so free with your information, like 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:41.920 you're not afraid to say like what you get paid 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:43.560 and what you're doing here, and what you're doing here. 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:45.480 And I'm like, yeah, because you're not gonna come and 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:48.800 steal my job by virtue of me feeling really unique 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:51.960 to be in this particular position. I think that if 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:56.720 I was, yeah, I don't. It feels like a self 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.560 fulfilling prophecy. It feels like a double edged sword, and 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:03.440 it feel feels like a trap that people want you 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:06.480 to fall into, like imposter syndrome. Yes, they want you 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:08.880 to feel like you don't belong here. They want you 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:12.000 to doubt yourself. They want you to feel like something's incorrect, 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:15.599 so you'll take yourself out of the race. Do you 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:16.360 know what I'm saying? 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.880 Major, Yeah, because you do worry about Yeah. If you're 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:22.440 worried about it, it's harder to make decisions and you 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:24.640 do is this feeling like, oh, well, I don't want 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:26.800 to be I don't want to be targeted, so I'm 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:27.120 just not. 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:29.360 And nobody can validate if it's real or not real. 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:30.800 If you went to a group of people and said, 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:32.640 am I the victim of tall poppy syndrome? It'd be 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:35.959 like the invisible monster just being paranoid. There's no real monster, hear, 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:38.360 You just don't feel inadequate. Therefore take yourself out of 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:41.240 the game. You don't feel like you fit in this conversation, 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:43.760 then take yourself out you don't feel like you fit 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:47.520 in the friend group, then reveal yourself. You know what 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:49.920 I mean? It feels like this really insidious way for 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.920 people to self adjust, for you, to put yourself on 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:56.440 the hierarchy a few rungs lower to create space for 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.040 those who recognize the game that's being played. 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:03.319 So it's like self destructive, do you mean? 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.320 Or it's I think it's like any system that was 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:11.320 built to be self regulating, like capitalism, like racism, like sexism, 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:15.160 it's not often someone doing it to you, it's you 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:19.400 keeping yourself in that position as well. Not that racism 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:21.720 is something you do to yourself, but in the sense of, 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.520 like I get really frustrated, like, for example, I don't 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:28.160 like talking about oppressive narratives about blackness, especially online or 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:30.600 in spaces, but anyone can take that narrative because it 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:34.000 reaffirms I don't want out there, you know, like people 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.559 were like, you never talk about your failures exactly, max 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:39.600 fact exactly because what's that doing for me? You know? 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:40.120 So? 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:43.439 I think the thing about self poppy self poppy tall 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:47.679 poppy syndrome is that it makes you choose where you 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:49.720 fit on the ladder, and it's always going to be 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.400 lower than you think it's going to be for fear 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:55.040 of getting higher and someone taking you off. 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.520 Now it's making sense. Now, it's making sense. You know, 0:10:57.640 --> 0:10:58.840 I never thought of it like that. 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:02.720 You are the monster afraid of Oh no, you are 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:06.360 the person with the cheese keeping everybody in line. 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:10.760 You've been listening to The Flex and Froom's daily podcast. 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:13.600 For more, Tune in de cater on DAB or stream 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:14.640 it on iHeartRadio.