1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yor 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: the Order KERNI Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I 4 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land 5 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, 6 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming 7 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing 8 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: and the storytelling of you to make a difference for 9 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: today and lasting impact for tomorrow. 10 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 2: Let's get into it. 11 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money. 12 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money Podcas that's 13 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: here to make your business smarter, your leadership shopper, and 14 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 2: your workplace well less of a stress fest. I am 15 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 2: Victoria Devine, retired financial advisor, author of the Business Bible, 16 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 2: and owner of several successful businesses. It's never not going 17 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 2: to be weird, Jessica saying that out loud, and today 18 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 2: it's a Business Bible episode. But don't scroll away if 19 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 2: you're not running your own business, because this one is 20 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 2: jam packed with tips for anyone in the workplace, whether 21 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 2: you're managing a team, working on your career, or just 22 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 2: trying to navigate office life like a pro. We've got 23 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 2: you covered, from building a team culture that slaps to 24 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:42,639 Speaker 2: handling those tricky Jessica, can we talk conversations? We're breaking 25 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 2: down the top five HR rules to make work less 26 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 2: complicated and dare I say, actually, enjoyable, love, be nice 27 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 2: and joining me today? Is the hardest working side hustler. 28 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 2: I know that thankfully doesn't have any employees, so it 29 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 2: can be really rile on this show. It's just great you. 30 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, HR's the bin in my business. 31 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 5: You're like, what. 32 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: Time we did have a sticker on the shredder that 33 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: said HR, Yeah, submit to your complaint there. 34 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 4: I mean, it was a flawless system until. 35 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 2: We had to grow up because we became an actual business. 36 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 4: Yes, it is a really important conversation to have. Culture 37 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 4: really is the foundation of any business. You obviously have 38 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 4: studied organizational psychology VD, so I feel like you're gonna 39 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 4: have a little bit more insight into how that kind 40 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 4: of impacted the way that you manage people in the workplace. 41 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, does it ever? I feel like I 42 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 2: wish I could just step into being a mediocre, middle 43 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 2: aged white man middle manager. 44 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 4: Would be nice. 45 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: We'll be nice because they just don't care. They're like es, 46 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 2: We've got to talk and then they will let you 47 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 2: steal all weekend. 48 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 4: Couldn't be me. Couldn't be dead before the meeting, wouldn't 49 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 4: been me. 50 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 2: Like I send meeting requests with catch up in brackets. 51 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 2: Good thing. Don't worry, Yeah, because I am so worried 52 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 2: that I'll stress you out over nothing. But I also 53 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 2: have a very clean framework of performance management if things 54 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 2: aren't going as well as they should, which is important. Yeah, 55 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 2: I feel like yes and no, Like it's kind of 56 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 2: like helped obviously, but it's also hindered not making it bad. 57 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 2: But I do put a lot of pressure on myself 58 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 2: to make sure that it's an enjoyable workplace and things 59 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 2: are going well. And I don't know, I'm not a genius. 60 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 2: I'm just a girl out here trying to do my best. 61 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 2: We all, but we do have some rules, you know. 62 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 4: All right? Tell me are these rules? What's number one? 63 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: All right? 64 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 2: So first things first, I think it's about getting really 65 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 2: clear on your HR policies early and also knowing your 66 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: legal obligations. So from my perspective, HR policies are kind 67 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 2: of like the rule book of how your workplace should work, 68 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 2: and there's a free one online, like you can go 69 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: onto the fair Work website. They will have that HR 70 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: Policies and Procedure document that you can download and edit 71 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 2: to your heart's content. Without them, I think you're setting 72 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 2: your team up for some confusion and inconsistency, an unnecessary drama. 73 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: And then if you're also a first time employer, it's 74 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 2: a really good expectation setter with you. You might not know 75 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 2: that you have these obligations. Yeah, like you might go, oh, 76 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 2: I didn't realize that I had to give them twenty 77 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 2: four hours noticed for this type of meeting, or I 78 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 2: didn't realize that I needed to do a B and C. 79 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 2: And that doesn't mean that you're a bad manager. It 80 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 2: just means you've not led people before. And if you 81 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 2: have led people before and you don't know these obligations, 82 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 2: it's a good reminder to go and do that. So 83 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 2: clear policies protect everyone. I know that lots of people 84 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 2: will say, well, HR's they are to protect the company, 85 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 2: And from the perspective of an employer, yes, it is 86 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 2: and why is it? Because if I'm doing the right 87 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 2: thing by you, Jess, I'm protecting the company, Like I'm 88 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 2: not here to do the wrong thing like HR, And 89 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 2: having a HR person doesn't mean you can't take me 90 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 2: to fair work if I did the wrong thing. It 91 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you can't, you know, seek legal injunction 92 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 2: if you need, Like, yeah, it doesn't protect me in 93 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 2: that way. So yes, HR works for me, But at 94 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 2: the end of the day, I employ them to look 95 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 2: after you and by virtue, look after me. Like our 96 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 2: HR makes sure that I know what policies and procedures exist. 97 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 2: And surprisingly you can have internal HR, which we don't have, 98 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 2: or external HR, which is like a consulting service that 99 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 2: kind of come in a bit like a bookkeeper and 100 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 2: just make sure that everything's all good. Like how would 101 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 2: I know that employment law has changed if I've had 102 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 2: my head in the podcast realm for the last month. 103 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 2: They email me and they're like, hey, V just so 104 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 2: you know, update XYZ with your bookkeeper to make sure 105 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 2: that you're staying within the breadth of what you need to. 106 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, because as an employer, you have that responsibility, don't you. 107 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 4: Hundred proceeds to make sure that you're on and. 108 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 2: Like having a clear document or having a clear location 109 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 2: to keep HR policies is going to mean that you know, 110 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: everyone knows their rights, they know their responsibilities, and they 111 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: also know how to handle things if things aren't going well. 112 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 2: Like that's important. 113 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, What does that look like in action? 114 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 2: So obviously starting with essentials, what's your onboarding process? Yes, 115 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 2: ours is still rogue, I'm really sorry. What do you 116 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 2: leave entitlement? So that should also be in your employment contracts? 117 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 2: What do performance reviews look like? How are we going 118 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 2: to do that? And also how are we handling conflict? 119 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 2: You might and everyone does at the start of their business. 120 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 2: Go it's sunshine and roses. There's never going to be 121 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 2: conflict in my business. 122 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:30,799 Speaker 4: May well be conflict in your business. 123 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 2: May your delumu come true? True, There's always going to 124 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 2: be something, And it doesn't mean that the conflict lasts. 125 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 2: It just means you need to have a process for 126 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 2: talking it through and nipping it in the butt so 127 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 2: that it doesn't become a bigger thing. But if there's 128 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 2: no process, you're gone spiral and you don't know how 129 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 2: to deal with it. So from my perspective, it's keep 130 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 2: it simple. All processes should be as simple as possible. 131 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 2: They should be super easy to understand, also accessible to everybody. 132 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 2: It's not some policy that you've said that no one 133 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 2: else is able to communicate. No one should have to, 134 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 2: you know, decode some legal, bloody jargon just to understand 135 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 2: how to apply for annual leve or to know what 136 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 2: to expect during a performance review. And then this is 137 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 2: my psychotic side stepping in document everything. Maybe this comes 138 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 2: from my financial advice world probably, but like even when 139 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 2: I've spoken to you about things, jess, what do I say? 140 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 2: Send yourself an email? Yeap, doesn't even have to be 141 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 2: this like super formal process. But if you email something 142 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 2: to yourself, you are time stamping it. You can't edit that, 143 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 2: you can't edit the time, and email ends up in 144 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 2: your inbox. And if ever anything should happen, you can 145 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 2: go back and find all of those things and say, well, 146 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 2: actually I do remember what happened because I sent myself 147 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 2: an email when it was still fresh in my mind 148 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 2: of everything that happened. Here is my file note. So 149 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 2: you could file note it properly. You could like do 150 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 2: it on a word document. You could have like an 151 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 2: internal cim that you might manage those things through, but 152 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 2: at the very least it to yourself is really helpful. 153 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 2: So obviously having a printed handbook fantastic. But if something's 154 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 2: happening and you're having conversations with people, document them. I 155 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 2: prefer that to be a waste of time because, like 156 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 2: you know, I've never had to do this with you, 157 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 2: thank god. But like if I had to have a 158 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 2: serious conversation with you, Jess, I would send myself an 159 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 2: email so that then I could go back and be like, well, 160 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,679 Speaker 2: what did I talk to Jess about the first time? 161 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 2: You know, what did she say about this? So if 162 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: there's a second follow up, I can be like, look, Jess, 163 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 2: like documented it the first time, and this is what 164 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 2: we said, this were the outcomes, this is what we've meant, 165 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 2: this is what we haven't met. And I think that 166 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 2: that's really important because time makes things cloudy. So if 167 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 2: time passes and I'm like, oh, yes, I had to 168 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 2: chat to you about this before, and you go, yeah, 169 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 2: what was I meant to do again, and you go, oh, 170 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 2: I don't remember. Yeah, unacceptable. Also, there's no way you wouldn't. 171 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 4: Have documented it your Jess. 172 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 2: You would have come to the table. 173 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 4: It's not the point. 174 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 2: I'm just using it as an exactly, But I think 175 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 2: reviewing and updating regularly because your team is going to grow, 176 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 2: laws are going to change, Your policies might need tweaking 177 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 2: to stay relevant. And I think summary of all of 178 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 2: that is just have clear, documented HR policies. And if 179 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 2: you have them and don't use them. 180 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 4: That's great, amazing yah, But I'd prefer you. 181 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 2: To have them and not need them, then need them 182 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 2: and not have them. 183 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 4: Oh one hundred percent. How would you approach building the 184 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 4: team when you're making those first hiring decisions. Obviously you 185 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 4: create first choice in me. 186 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, because she's on the money team started off on 187 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 2: the best push. It wouldn't have done better. No, So 188 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 2: I have a theory and it's called higher slow, fire fast. 189 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 2: Oh it sounds real savage, but we have quite a 190 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 2: recruitment process. If you're listening to this and you've ever 191 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 2: been through it, I apologize, but I also don't because 192 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 2: it means that you can find the right role and 193 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 2: I can find the right fit. So it's about making 194 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: sure that there are multiple points of contact. I don't 195 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 2: just like have a coffee catch up with someone and 196 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 2: be like, hey, yes, do you want a job like 197 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 2: yess like you were put through even as my first hire, 198 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 2: like online interview, interview, in person Q and a what 199 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 2: would this look like? How would this work? I think 200 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 2: even because I was into content for the Business Bible 201 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 2: at that point, I made you go into a sound 202 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 2: booth and like. 203 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 4: We have that somewhere. 204 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I made you record yourself and what you were feeling. 205 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 2: Like that's probably not acceptable, not against just a bit weird, 206 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 2: but at the end of the day, bringing somebody into 207 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 2: your team is the biggest commitment ever. Like from my perspective, 208 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 2: it's so scary as well, because like I don't know, 209 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 2: I pay your income, Like that is a massive commitment 210 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 2: and I don't want you to rush that process. And 211 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 2: it's not just about your resume. It's also about how 212 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 2: they bring themselves to the table. What they're like tenacity 213 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 2: is like what their work values, their values, their cultural fit, 214 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 2: their goals. Like So I think using multiple rounds of 215 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 2: interviews is really smart and if possible, involve your team. 216 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 2: So now that we do have a bigger team, whenever 217 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 2: I'm hiring someone new, the first port of call will 218 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 2: be a phone interview with somebody that's not me. Second 219 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 2: port of call is an interview with me. And if 220 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 2: all of that is going swimmingly, you get invited to 221 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 2: an interview with some of the team members and I'm 222 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 2: not there, And that's purposeful because then you can be like, Jess, 223 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 2: what's that actually like? Working for me? What's your work 224 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 2: life balance? 225 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 4: Like? 226 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 2: You know, what does your weekends look like? You know, 227 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 2: what does you know, work task allocation look like? How 228 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 2: does team communication go? What's work from home? Actually? You know, 229 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,079 Speaker 2: ask all those questions. But then the team can also 230 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,679 Speaker 2: work out if you're somebody that they would interact with 231 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 2: consistently on a daily basis. You get a vibe, you 232 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 2: get a feel, and I think that to just rely 233 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 2: on a resume is silly. 234 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 4: It's very outdated, isn't it? 235 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 2: One hundred percent our data? And like Jess, lots of 236 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 2: people applied for roles that you applied for and you 237 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 2: got it and you didn't even have a degree because 238 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 2: you were the right fit. And yeah, have I regretted that, 239 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 2: Maybe a little, but no. But have I regretted that no? 240 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 2: Because you've been here for years now and have been 241 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 2: an integral part of the team. I don't regret that 242 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 2: for a second. So I think it's so important to 243 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 2: do that. But on the flip side, fire fast, I 244 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 2: can tell you right now, if you talk to any 245 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 2: manager who's hired someone you and they've known if it 246 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 2: was a bad fit, they know within the first week, 247 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 2: it does not mean that they do anything about that though, 248 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 2: Like you need to nip that in the button, pull 249 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 2: that person aside. Hey Barry, I'm really sorry, this just 250 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 2: isn't working out for you or me. It gives them 251 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 2: the opportunity to go find something that works for them, 252 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 2: and you the opportunity to find the right team member. 253 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 2: Like it can lower team morale having the wrong person 254 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 2: on the team, like it can impact your productivity. It 255 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 2: can even hurt that person in the role because they 256 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 2: might thrive somewhere else. You're impacting their confidence, like yeah, 257 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 2: if they're not good at that job, let them go. 258 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 4: Like yeah, first, some people might hold on because they 259 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 4: feel almost like a failure, like if they've made gone, 260 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 4: oh I think I made the right decision, and then 261 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 4: they go, oh, maybe it's not feeling right. Maybe they 262 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 4: could go, oh, yeah, I was so confident or I 263 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 4: saw XYZ. Yeah, but do you think it's fair to 264 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 4: say that until you have someone doing the job in 265 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 4: your team in routine, Like people can put their best 266 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 4: foot forward in an interview and it just not translate 267 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 4: in the way. 268 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 2: And I think that you might look at me and go, Victoria, 269 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 2: that's ruthless, that's awful, Like give them a chance if 270 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 2: you can't show me your best in the first few 271 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 2: weeks of your employment, like what is going on? Like 272 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 2: a you not meant to put your best foot forward 273 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 2: during that period of time. And it probably does sound ruthless, 274 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, for me, it's 275 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: about clarity, it's about respect, it's about being upfront and 276 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 2: professional with that person. And I find that kinder than 277 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 2: dragging it out and firing them in six months. Like 278 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 2: I have interviewed and hired somebody before who had just 279 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 2: got a new role, and I said, why are you here? 280 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 2: Didn't you just say that you have a new role 281 00:13:58,240 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 2: And they said, yeah, absolutely, I've been there for two 282 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 2: weeks and it's absolutely not the right fit. 283 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. 284 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 2: I had so much respect for that person because I 285 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 2: was like, really, tell me about that, what does that mean? 286 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 2: And ended up hiring them. They've stayed. It's fantastic. But 287 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 2: I had so much respect because they knew to pull 288 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 2: the trigger early, and they were like, I'm not going 289 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 2: to waste the business's time. I feel like my time's 290 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 2: being wasted. 291 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: You know. 292 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 2: The expectations they sat in the interview were not what 293 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 2: it ended up being. Like, I have a lot more 294 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 2: respect for that, and I've also got a lot more 295 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 2: respect for other people that I'm not going to drag 296 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 2: it out. Yeah, it's not fair. 297 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 4: That feels reasonable to me. 298 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 2: I feel like it does. But you know, on the 299 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 2: flip side, if you just got your new job and 300 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 2: then you find a week later you're not the right fit, doesn't. 301 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, but I guess hr or like you know, making 302 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 4: hiring choices more broadly, you have to take the emotion 303 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 4: out of it a little bit. It's one hundred and 304 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 4: before out right you have to make the decision that's 305 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 4: right for you, right for the team. Because as much 306 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 4: as like in an I Do world, no one would 307 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 4: ever hurt anybody's feelings and everyone would get along and 308 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 4: everything would be perfect. 309 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 2: See I agree, and I don't agree. So, like, taking 310 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 2: the emotion out of it is important for clear decision making, 311 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 2: and I do that, But then I think it's important 312 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 2: to inject your personality and your ethics and your morals 313 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 2: back into it to be empathetic. Yeah, one hundred percent. 314 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 2: There is what fair work says you need to do. Right. 315 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 2: So let's say we are terminating somebody, Like, there is 316 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 2: what fair work says, I need to make sure that 317 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 2: I give someone twenty four hours notice before I terminate 318 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 2: their role. I need to offer them a support person 319 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 2: all of that other stuff. But is that the kindest 320 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 2: way to do it? Yeah, probably not. We'll do that 321 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 2: as a bare minimum, but like, there are additional things 322 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 2: that I can layer on top of that, like making 323 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 2: sure that I have a very clear process of performance management. 324 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 2: So if somebody isn't performing well, I'm not just going 325 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 2: to go Okay, cool, we're done and I've given them warnings, 326 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 2: but I haven't. I'm going to make sure that my 327 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 2: language is clear, my warnings are clear. I'm going to 328 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 2: make sure that when it comes to that termination process, 329 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 2: I'm clear in giving feedback, because if I'm not giving 330 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 2: that person feedback, I'm not helping them grow in the 331 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 2: next role, and I'm setting them up for failure. And 332 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 2: a lot of the time it's not a personal decision. 333 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 2: It's a technical competency issue and going cool. We've tried X, Y, 334 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 2: and Z and it's just not working. But what can 335 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 2: I do to be the kindest in this situation because 336 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 2: it feels like trash, But I'm quiet no one wants that. Yeah, 337 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 2: So I think it's about making sure that you don't 338 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 2: just take all the emotion out of it, because I 339 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 2: think that empathetic leadership needs some level of emotion still 340 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 2: to still have your wits about you. I'm not the devil. 341 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, do you know what I'm saying? Your boss? 342 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, like I am your boss, but also I'm not 343 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 2: a dick. Or maybe I am, but like I try 344 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 2: really hard not to be sometimes. But let's go to 345 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 2: a really quick break. I feel like we're just getting started. 346 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 2: After the break, I'm going to dive into I guess 347 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 2: the secret source for keeping your workplace running smoothly everything 348 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 2: from communication, feedback, and building a culture that people actually 349 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 2: want to stick around for. So stay tuned. 350 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:05,360 Speaker 4: Alright, everyone, we're back vid. We've talked about policies and hiring, 351 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 4: but once you've got the right people in place, what's 352 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 4: the next step for making sure that everything does run 353 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 4: smoothly culture culture culture without ah at the end, culture go. 354 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 2: To make sure you have good culture. Culture is so important. 355 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 2: But before you get culture, I feel like everybody throws 356 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 2: this term of like, oh, culture is so important at work? 357 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 2: Is culture that important? If you have shitty communication. 358 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 4: Is shitty communication symptom of that culture exactly? 359 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 2: So the first thing I want to talk about is communication. 360 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 4: Great. 361 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 2: It's funny because on our Friday Drinks episode, Jess, we're 362 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 2: always like, oh, we've got a dilemma, and what said 363 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 2: ninety nine point nine nine percent of the time, Oh, 364 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 2: if you just communicated. Communication is that glue that sticks 365 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 2: cell workplace together, Like it is something that you need 366 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 2: to have open and flowing. But then also realize if 367 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 2: a change is being made, often don't take it personally. 368 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,360 Speaker 2: So I think it's sometimes people will go, oh my god, 369 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 2: my boss decided to implement like a rule where we 370 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 2: only get forty five minutes of our lunch break. Why 371 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 2: are we taking this so personally? Like it's just a rule. 372 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 2: Someone's broken it great, No aries like pick it up, 373 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 2: move forward, like we've just changed the way that we're working. 374 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 2: But without good communication, where places start full part things 375 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 2: start to get tricky and hard, and consistent and clear 376 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 2: communication is going to keep you on track. It's going 377 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 2: to mean that you stay aligned, but it's also going 378 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 2: to reduce friction, and it's going to create an environment 379 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 2: where everyone feels heard and informed. And on top of things, 380 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 2: you've got four c's Jessica and I've talked about them 381 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 2: before on the podcast. You've got clarity, consistency, context, and collaboration. 382 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 2: And to have effective communication, you need to meet all 383 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 2: four of these things. And it sounds lame, but having 384 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 2: a framework makes life so much easier as a leader 385 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 2: because so often I'll be like, but I told her 386 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 2: in my head and then realize that maybe I didn't 387 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 2: meet the four and that probably what's an effective communication. 388 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 2: I was just busy and trying to get rid of it. 389 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 2: So clarity is obviously being really specific, being really concise, 390 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 2: like not saying things like oh, yes, we need to 391 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 2: do better, great, saying something like okay, to do better, 392 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 2: we need to deliver that draft by next Friday at 393 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 2: four pm. Yeah, like being really clear. The next is consistency, 394 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 2: So staying regular with your updates, making sure that things 395 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 2: are shared, meetings via email or via slack repetition means 396 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 2: that everybody is aligned. Context is important. If you tell 397 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 2: me to do something and I don't know why or 398 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:38,959 Speaker 2: when or where a haw, like, how am I going 399 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 2: to do that? Like? Oh, Jess, can you fix that project? What? Projects? 400 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 4: And context is key even in just like the urgency 401 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 4: like one hundred percent, like oh, the client doesn't like it? 402 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 2: Can you change it? Yes? 403 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: What? 404 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 2: Like we need some context. So for example, instead of 405 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 2: just asking, oh, can you make some changes because the 406 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 2: client doesn't like it, saying the client asked for revisions 407 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 2: to better align with their branding, the colors a bit off, 408 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 2: could you please update it? They also would prefer to 409 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 2: feature A instead of B. 410 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, no. 411 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 2: Worries like Also, if you're providing context like oh, the 412 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 2: client just didn't like it, that feels personal. Yeah, like ill, David, 413 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 2: we are not making things personal. We're taking the personal 414 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 2: out of it. Like clients can be frustrating. If any 415 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 2: of my clients are listening, turn this off right now. 416 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 4: Delight your old delights. 417 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 2: But it can be very frustrating sometimes when a client 418 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 2: gives you feedback not effectively communicated, not effectively communicated, and 419 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 2: you can't manage that. Yeah, so manage your team. So 420 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 2: I know that you have had this historically, just not 421 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 2: at the moment, thank god, where a client has just said, oh, 422 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,239 Speaker 2: I don't like it, I want to make changes, and 423 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 2: I've had to then go back to you just and 424 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 2: be like, oh, the client doesn't like it. I need 425 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 2: to then communicate with you. Look, the client has said 426 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 2: they don't like it, they haven't given me a lot 427 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 2: of context. Unfortunately, this is the feedback. Have a look 428 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 2: at the emails. These are the communications I've had with 429 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 2: them before, and like you and I have had to 430 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 2: sit down and decipher maybe what they meant because we 431 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 2: haven't able to do that. But if I said, oh, 432 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 2: they just didn't like it, Jess and moved on, you 433 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 2: think that I'm being a little bit flippant, Whereas the 434 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 2: situation is a bit deeper than that. So when you 435 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 2: have context, great share it. But if you don't have context, 436 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 2: also share that you have no context of us a 437 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 2: not yeah, and provide as much information on the fact 438 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 2: that you're in the dark as well. 439 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 5: Yeah. 440 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 2: Is really important. And I think so many times issues 441 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,199 Speaker 2: arise because I'll be like, well, Jess, you didn't tell me, 442 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 2: and then you go, oh, well, I wasn't told either, 443 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 2: and I go, well, why didn't you tell me that 444 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 2: you weren't told? It just becomes a whole thing and 445 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 2: it doesn't need to be. And then the last one 446 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 2: is collaboration. So we're creating a space for two way dialogue, 447 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 2: which I have sadly done in my business, where you 448 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 2: give me feedback as much as I'm giving you feedback, 449 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 2: and it's actually a really good thing. So I'm asking you, guys, well, 450 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 2: what's your perspective on this decision I'm making, and vice versa. 451 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 2: So sometimes I'm humbled and I'm like, I've got this 452 00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,040 Speaker 2: really great idea. It's called twenty twenty thrive, right, and 453 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 2: name our whole thing twenty twenty thrive. You know what. 454 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 2: My team came back and said, looks great, But Victoria, 455 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 2: in text, it looks like you've said two zero tooth thrive. 456 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 2: What's too zero tooth thrive? 457 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 4: Yeah? 458 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 2: Sounds good when I speak it. So twenty twenty thrive 459 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 2: slay when you put it on a heading looks terrible 460 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 2: and I needed to be humbled. So we're not using 461 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 2: that as aggressively. We'll use it on the podcast, but 462 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 2: it can't be a heading for something because it just 463 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 2: doesn't translate. Yeah, can you imagine if my team were 464 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 2: just agreeable, life would be easy but hard great, dear Victoria, 465 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 2: that's and it really float everybody's vote like it would 466 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 2: have been awful, right, So I think collaboration making sure 467 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 2: that people feel safe to challenge, but also they feel 468 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 2: confident to share their opinions, and that can be harder done. 469 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,640 Speaker 2: Then said, yeah, you really have to cultivate a safe 470 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 2: speck because I know in my business, thankfully, you guys 471 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 2: can be like Victoria, that is a terrible idea, and 472 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 2: I'll be like fair. Whereas I'm sure that there are 473 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 2: people listening to this. If they told their boss that 474 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 2: something was a terrible idea, they'd be like, get out 475 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 2: of my office, or even worse, you know what I mean. 476 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:13,360 Speaker 2: So you've got to read the room. 477 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 4: So what I'm feeling is great. Communication isn't just about talking. 478 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 4: It's about ensuring that everybody understands, they feel heard, they 479 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 4: know next steps. I feel like, when in doubt, over 480 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 4: communicate rather than assuming everyone's on the same page, because 481 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 4: what they say, when you assume, you make an ass 482 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 4: out of you and me. 483 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 2: You've said that one time before I believe, well, first. 484 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,239 Speaker 4: What about when things aren't going as planned though, or 485 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 4: if you need to maybe recalibrate the way that you're doing. 486 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 2: It's almost like communication is key here. Yes, really, it's 487 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 2: actually crazy. But I'm also going to say feedback, communicate feedback. 488 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 2: The number four rule is make sure that you were 489 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:55,439 Speaker 2: using a framework for effective communication and effective feedback. It 490 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 2: matters for so many different reasons. 491 00:23:58,240 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 3: Right. 492 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 2: You might think by just delivering some feedback and walking off, 493 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:03,719 Speaker 2: that's enough, and it's just really not. 494 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:03,959 Speaker 1: So. 495 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,679 Speaker 2: Feedback is one of the most powerful tools for people 496 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 2: for personal and professional growth. And I think sometimes even 497 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 2: framing it and being like, hey, like and thank god 498 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 2: I haven't had to do this, I feel like I've 499 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 2: given you feedback that you haven't liked before, but it's worked. Well. Hey, Jess, 500 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 2: I'm going to give you some feedback. And I'm aware 501 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 2: that this might not be the nicest thing to hear, 502 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 2: but I hope you know that when I'm telling you this, 503 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 2: it's coming from a place of love and wanting you 504 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 2: to be better and do better. And I know you 505 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 2: can as opposed to me being critical, right, and then 506 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 2: you can go, oh, okay, you've kind of braced yourself 507 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 2: for the feedback, but also you know that I'm aware 508 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 2: that that could be a dick thing to share. I 509 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 2: don't want you to immediately go v said that she 510 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 2: hated my thing, and that can all in the delivery. 511 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 2: When feedback is done correctly, it improves performance. It improves 512 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 2: like the strength of your team, team dynamics. It builds trust, 513 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 2: like I think that good feedeedback coming from somebody who 514 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 2: wants you to do well is a gift, whereas some 515 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 2: people think that just being rude or being like, well, 516 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 2: I don't like it, Like, yeah, that's not feedback, that's opinion. 517 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 2: And you need to decipher the difference between personal opinion 518 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 2: and feedback as well. I think that's something that a 519 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 2: lot of people don't do well. They will deliver it 520 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 2: and be like, oh, I think that's terrible, and then 521 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 2: it's like, well, actually doesn't meet the brief like you 522 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,479 Speaker 2: might not like this. You know, it happens a lot 523 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 2: in marketing, like people will say that they don't like something, 524 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 2: but it's actually personal opinion, and then you realize there's 525 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 2: a lot of research behind why it's presented that way. 526 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 2: Have a think about how you're delivering it and where 527 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 2: this feedback is coming from. On the flip side, if 528 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,360 Speaker 2: you're giving bad feedback, poor feedback, or even no feedback 529 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 2: at all, it leaves people a bit confused. They're like, 530 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm doing, I don't know how 531 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 2: to do this. They're unmotivated, they might be a little 532 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 2: bit resentful, and I think that is a really awful 533 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 2: position to be in. It doesn't help for the culture, naysaka, 534 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,360 Speaker 2: and we're all about the culture one hundred percent. So 535 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 2: this is where you want to use a framework again, 536 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 2: and my favorite framework is the situation impact action framework. 537 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,640 Speaker 2: So if you're giving feedback, let's do a little role 538 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 2: play example. So you're going to describe what happened, so 539 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 2: the situation focusing only on the facts. So example, in 540 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 2: the last meeting, you spoke over Sarah while she was 541 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 2: sharing her thoughts. Sarah doesn't exist while she was sharing 542 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 2: her ideas. And then you're going to explain the impact. 543 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 2: So we're not going to talk about how on I 544 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 2: just don't think that's very enough. No no, no, no, no, 545 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 2: cut that out. We don't care about that. You're then 546 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 2: going to explain why it matters and how it affected 547 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 2: the team or the project. So it really interrupted her 548 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 2: flow and made it harder for her to fully explain 549 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 2: her point, and then she just seemed a bit hesitant 550 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 2: to speak up again. 551 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 4: Valid. 552 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 2: Valid. Then what's the action, So we're not just going 553 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,880 Speaker 2: to be like you spoke over somebody made her feel 554 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 2: bad and drop the mic and walk out. What behavior 555 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 2: do we want modeled in the future. Look, let's just 556 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 2: make sure that everyone gets to finish their thoughts before 557 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 2: we jump in. I know you're really excited about that 558 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 2: and really enthusiastic, So maybe just take a quick pause 559 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,479 Speaker 2: to check if anyone is like still speaking, make sure 560 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 2: they're done before you're jumping in. 561 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 4: Great, really simple. 562 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 2: When you're really simple, really easy, it's not about personal opinion, 563 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 2: which I think is where feedback gets really cloudy. Yeah, 564 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 2: it sets you out for success. And they're probably going 565 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 2: to go, yeah, you're right, that will help me. 566 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a simple thing. They know exactly what they 567 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,120 Speaker 4: need to do, no harm, no file, they can fix 568 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 4: it for an extra. 569 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 2: And it's funny because that example would literally never happen 570 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 2: with you, Jessica. It would happen with me. I speak 571 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 2: over everybody, I do and you are like the thoughtful 572 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 2: one that goes, oh I have a point. 573 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 4: And they raise my hand. 574 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, like you put your hand up or something, so 575 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 2: like that's a terrible example. If you were imagining Jessica 576 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 2: in it, just imagine that that was being delivered to me, 577 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 2: because I would feel much better if someone was like, oh, 578 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 2: you did this thing and it impacted somebody else in 579 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 2: the future, you need to do this. I'd be like, Okay, cool, 580 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,919 Speaker 2: no worries. Yeah, Whereas if somebody was giving me feedback 581 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 2: and they're like, stop talking over jess I'd be like, oh, sorry, 582 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 2: and you. 583 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 4: Feel bad about yourself and that doesn't help anything. 584 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 2: It doesn't help anyone or anything, because then I don't 585 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 2: even realize when I did that. Was it at lunch 586 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 2: or was it at dinner? Like do I do it 587 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 2: all the time, Like, yeah, we're nipping it in the butt? 588 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 4: Can I say yeah? I also think it's really important 589 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 4: when using this framework to think about who you're delivering 590 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 4: to in the way that they lack to receive feedback. 591 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,719 Speaker 4: And I think a particularly relevant example is exactly what 592 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 4: you were just saying with how you interrupt. For you, 593 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 4: it's because of you and neurodiversity, and I think I'm. 594 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 2: Glad I have an excuse. 595 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, But I think it's also like really important when 596 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 4: we're talking about like, obviously this is a great broad framework, 597 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 4: but people are so unique and the way that I 598 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 4: receive feedback, the way you receive feedback, I think getting 599 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 4: to know your team and I feel like we're going 600 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 4: to maybe talk about this a little bit in about 601 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 4: five seconds. Maybe I'm really ahead, am I hot rut? 602 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 4: But I think like that's a really important thing and 603 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 4: acknowledging that certain behaviors may be results of your adversity 604 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 4: or past experience or things like that as well. 605 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 2: And I know that talking over people can be perceived 606 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 2: as being incredibly rude, right, but I think we're at 607 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 2: a point in our team. I'm not saying it's acceptable. 608 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 2: I do try my best, please, I'm not saying that 609 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 2: that's okay, But I think that when I do that 610 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 2: accidentally now, still people aren't like Victoria thinks she's more important, 611 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 2: Like I think that because we fully comprehend each other 612 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 2: and I've shared that, people are like, oh, she's just 613 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 2: so excited about the next point. Yeah, And sometimes the 614 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 2: teams like they sit down like go back two steps, 615 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 2: Please go back two steps, because we're actually not talking 616 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 2: about that yet. We're still not done here. And I 617 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 2: think that that can be a really good way of 618 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 2: managing it as well. Like a lot of people might 619 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 2: take personal offense, be like, oh my god, I can't 620 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 2: believe Victoria's spoke over me again in that meeting. It's 621 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 2: not because I don't respect you. I've promised you that. 622 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 2: And I think that having that context is really really important. 623 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 4: I completely agree, and I think it filters really nicely 624 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 4: into creating that great team culture. How do you make 625 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,719 Speaker 4: sure that you know, whatever business company culture you're building 626 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 4: is something that people actually want to be a part of. 627 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 2: You've actually just got to post on social media all 628 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 2: the time. Oh yeah, I've got a post like really 629 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 2: attractive pictures of yourself and your team, like and your 630 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 2: team loving you. That's how to do good culture. 631 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 4: End the episode there. 632 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 2: In fact, do you know what's funny about that is 633 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 2: I have met so many people who have been like, oh, actually, 634 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 2: our internal team culture is nothing like you see online. 635 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 4: And I think that's a very common thing. 636 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 2: I think it's a very common thing for businesses to 637 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 2: be posting online about this and thinking that culture comes 638 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,239 Speaker 2: from what the content they share. And I think it's 639 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 2: important to point out because I'm so aware of that, Like, 640 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 2: I think you and I can agree, I don't even 641 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 2: have to agree to this, but like our team will 642 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 2: probably be like, yeah, what you see online is exactly 643 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 2: how we are in person, because it's just what naturally happens. 644 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 2: But I think building culture starts from internal, and it 645 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 2: starts from the top. So like, if I'm not role 646 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 2: modeling the behaviors that I expect, how do I expect 647 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 2: other people doing them? And if we're not doing them internally, 648 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 2: how are we expecting people to see them on the outside. 649 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 2: How are we expecting to talk about how great we 650 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 2: are if we're not actually great internally. I can't think 651 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 2: of anything more mortifying than being like, yeah, I really 652 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 2: respect my team and then my team in the background 653 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 2: rolling their eyes like ill. That gives me the ick 654 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 2: so hard. So if we think about the best workplace 655 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 2: culture we can, we're going to imagine people are super 656 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 2: engaged and supported and they're genuinely happy to show up, 657 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 2: and that kind of energy doesn't just happen. And I 658 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 2: guess the opposite is a workplace where tension and competition 659 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 2: end up taking over and nobody feels valued and then 660 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 2: everyone just waits for the countdown five o'clock when they 661 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 2: can run out of their laptop, shut bag on back. 662 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 2: And bad culture drains teams and it fuels turnover and 663 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 2: it kills productivity, and I mean a thriving colture. It 664 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 2: doesn't just boost morale. It actually turns your workplace into 665 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 2: a place that people want to stay and grow and 666 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 2: do their best. And I'm very lucky that I used 667 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 2: to work as a culture and engagement consultant and so 668 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 2: I work on a say, stay and thrive model. So 669 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 2: that's my concept that I work on. And if you 670 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 2: can meet all three of these things, I think you're 671 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 2: well on the way to having a good team culture 672 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 2: internally and externally. And whether you're an employer this applies obviously, 673 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 2: But if you're an employee, having a think about this. So, 674 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 2: I want people to be saying good things about my 675 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 2: business when I'm not around. You don't need to say 676 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 2: it in front of me. That doesn't matter. But like 677 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 2: imagine Jess, You're at a barbecue on the weekend and 678 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 2: someone says, Jess, where do you work? And you say, 679 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 2: I work a cheese of the money. Are you going 680 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 2: to go, oh, I work at cheese on the money 681 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 2: and they go how is it? And then you go whatever, 682 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 2: let's not talk about work, or you go, oh my gosh, 683 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 2: I love my job. I do this, I do that right, 684 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 2: So I want people saying good things. The second is stay. 685 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 2: So that's about tenure and having low turnover. Are people 686 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 2: indentivized and want to stay with the company, Like, are 687 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 2: they in a position where they want to stay for 688 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 2: the longevity? Do they see a career there, do they 689 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 2: see that they are respected and you know, enjoying it, 690 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 2: or are they looking for a new job. Yeah, So 691 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 2: I want to meet those two. And then the third 692 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 2: one is the strive component. And I feel like this 693 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 2: strive component it is something that you can't pay people for. 694 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 2: You can pay people all the money in the world, 695 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 2: but this is about cultural fit and hiring the right 696 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 2: people because if you have hired the right people, they 697 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 2: will strive for your business. They will go above and beyond. 698 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 2: They won't have to be asked to go above and 699 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 2: beyond because if you have a good culture, you're not 700 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 2: asking people to stay late. But you'll notice things happening 701 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 2: in the background. Like they're saying good things about your business. 702 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 2: They are you know, promoting it. They're you know, staying 703 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 2: in their role and they're going above and beyond because 704 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 2: they feel respected and they feel like, you know, they're 705 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 2: really contributing to the greater good. They understand that there's 706 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 2: effective and clear leadership. They understand that there is you know, 707 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 2: career opportunities for them on the table, or you know what. 708 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 2: Not everyone's looking for career opportunities. Some people just want 709 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 2: a steady job and that's cool too, But like they 710 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 2: understand that their position is respected. And I think that 711 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:16,360 Speaker 2: that's what culture looks like in action. So those three 712 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 2: things are going to contribute to having highly engaged employees. 713 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 2: And to go back to me being a culture and 714 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 2: engagement consultant, we know that businesses that have engaged employees 715 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 2: have fifty percent higher shareholder return than businesses that have 716 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 2: disengaged employees. That crazy, So just by focusing on culture, 717 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 2: you are impacting the bottom line of your business. Yeah, 718 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 2: And like I could go into it for days. We 719 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 2: don't have time, but I could go into it for 720 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 2: days about how your team are, what makes your business 721 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 2: successful and That's why often when I'm interviewed or I'm 722 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 2: talking to people and they're like, you've done so well, 723 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 2: and I'm I guess it's not me, it's my team. 724 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 2: I'm not even flipping it off me. I'm like, I 725 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,240 Speaker 2: wouldn't be where I would be today without a solid team. 726 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 2: But my solid team comes from being respected and having 727 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 2: that back and forth relationship. And I mean, to me, 728 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 2: good culture is the difference between a workplace people endua 729 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 2: and a workplace people thrive in. And so I think 730 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 2: when you create a culture of the lines with your 731 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 2: team's values and makes them feel connected, you're not just 732 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,439 Speaker 2: building a team, You're kind of building loyalty and creativity 733 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 2: and success. They can still leave though, because we had 734 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 2: a team and believe more than a year ago now. 735 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 2: And I think it's so important to understand where you sit. 736 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 2: So like, obviously I've done say stay and strive and 737 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,879 Speaker 2: stays great, But like, what if you outgrow the role, 738 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that you become disengaged with a culture. 739 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 2: If somebody in my business has outgrown a role, For example, 740 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 2: Gabby in our business, so I could talk about her 741 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 2: because she loved this. She worked in marketing, in our business. 742 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,879 Speaker 2: She started as EA, worked her way up, did market, 743 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 2: and then God offered an epic marketing role at the AFL. 744 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 2: I can't compete with that. Yeah, so what am I 745 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:10,320 Speaker 2: going to do? Be mad about that or be grateful 746 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 2: that I got to be along the journey of that. Yes, 747 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 2: I loved the fact that we got to be a 748 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 2: part of her journey. I was sad that she was leaving, 749 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 2: but now I'm so proud that she's on the money 750 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 2: helped her get there. 751 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 4: Yeah, slay Absolutely. I feel like those five rules set 752 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 4: a really good foundation for HR and for managing people 753 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 4: in general, not even just from like a business owner perspective, 754 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 4: but also just anyone in the workplace. You know, these 755 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 4: are the things that you want to be looking for. 756 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 4: This should be the standard that we're holding our employers to. Yeah. 757 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 2: And if you have listened to this and you're like, 758 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,319 Speaker 2: I'm not say, I'm not stay, I'm not strived, look 759 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 2: for a new job, I'm sorry to the employers listening, 760 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 2: but like, if you're not doing those three things, you're 761 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 2: not engaged, and it's good for them that you're going 762 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 2: to move on. But also it's great for you because 763 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 2: you've got to find somewhere that you actually feel valued totally, absolutely, 764 00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 2: And I think if you're running your own business, or 765 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 2: managing a team, or you just to be a better 766 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,359 Speaker 2: cowork or friend at work, these rules are universal. It's 767 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 2: all about setting clear expectations and fostering open, honest communication 768 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,919 Speaker 2: and building a culture where people actually want to show 769 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 2: up to a big one. Oh, I think we've done 770 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 2: for today. But before we wrap up, Jess in the 771 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 2: new year, Business Bibles having a glow up. 772 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 4: We love to see it, we do. 773 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 2: We're giving Business Bible its own dedicated feed again. That 774 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 2: is right. It is getting a revamp. There are some 775 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 2: really fun things planned and I know you're going to 776 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 2: love it, So make sure you hit the link in 777 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 2: our show notes to subscribe so you don't miss a thing. 778 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 2: Because Business Bible episodes are no longer going to be 779 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 2: on the shees on the Money feed. Whether you're already 780 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 2: a loyal Business Bible fan, thank you, or you're new 781 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 2: to the series, this is the perfect time to jump in. 782 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 2: Big things are coming and I cannot wait to share 783 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 2: with you what we have been working on behind the scenes. 784 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,840 Speaker 4: Oh, it's so exciting. I'll be hitting subscribe asap. 785 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 2: I love that you better because it's twenty twenty. Thrive 786 00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 2: next year, Jessica. 787 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:00,080 Speaker 4: We love it whether we use. 788 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 2: That in audio all the time. 789 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 4: Have a good rest of your week, guys. 790 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:11,279 Speaker 2: Bye. The advice shared on She's on the Money is 791 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 2: general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. 792 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 2: She's on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and 793 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 2: should not be relied upon to make an investment or 794 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 2: financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial. 795 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 5: Product, read the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial. 796 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:29,880 Speaker 2: Advice tailored towards your needs. 797 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 5: Victoria Divine and She's on the Money are authorized representatives 798 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 5: of money. Sheper pty Ltd ABN three two one six 799 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,319 Speaker 5: four nine two seven seven zero eight AFSL four five 800 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 5: one two eight nine