1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,559 Speaker 1: Situation with the Northern Territories correctional facilities being over capacity, 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: with that emergency action being taken, continues to dominate headlines 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 1: the Northern Territory News today, reporting that a proposed walk 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: off by prison staff has the support of nearly four 5 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: hundred union members. Sources have reportedly told the paper that 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: the Northern Territory correction system remains in an insane and 7 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: dangerous state of emergency. We know that a number of 8 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: different measures have been enacted by the Northern Territory Department 9 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: of Corrections and Corrections Commissioner to try to deal with 10 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: those large numbers of prisoners, will record high numbers of 11 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: prisoners that we're experiencing right now. Now. Joining us on 12 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: the line is Justine Davi, c Independent Member for Johnson. 13 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: Good morning to you. 14 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 2: Justine, Hey Katie, how are you going? 15 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: You're really good. Thanks for joining me on the show 16 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: this morning. Now, Justine, what do you make of the 17 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: current situation with the Northern Territories correction facilities. 18 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 2: I think it's a disaster, which is what everyone's saying 19 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 2: across the board. You know, no one is winning, not 20 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: the people who are locked up, not the prison staff 21 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 2: who I heard you just say, you know, we've heard 22 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 2: that they're going to go and strike their potentially they've 23 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 2: got unsafe work conditions, and not the community because none 24 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 2: of this is making any of us safer. So yeah, 25 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 2: I think we're in big trouble here. 26 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 1: It seems as though the government has got a bit 27 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: of a plan. I mean they've outlined what their sort 28 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: of short to medium plan is and then their longer 29 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: term plan in terms of infrastructure, which we've spoken about 30 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: in quite a lengthy way last week. We now know 31 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: that the Northern Territories Corrections Commissioner has really had to 32 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: implement these emergency measures. Do you think that that's going 33 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: to be enough? Do you think that we're going to 34 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: be able to think keep things under control? 35 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 2: I mean, I've talked on your show before, Katie that 36 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: I think this is not the right approach to community safety, 37 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 2: and I have I've heard the say O PA over 38 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 2: and over again in government in Parliament that they want 39 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 2: to address the causes of crime. That's the only way 40 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 2: we're going to actually address this, this new tough on 41 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: crime measure building more prisons. All we're going to do 42 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 2: is fill them up. And like I'm really worried about 43 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 2: what we're going to see happen here. I mean, I 44 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 2: think what we're already seeing advices. So in answer to 45 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 2: your question about do I think, you know, let's wait 46 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 2: and see and give it a chance and see what happens. 47 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 2: I don't. I don't. That's not what you said. So 48 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 2: I'm paraphrasing, but I don't think that's I don't think 49 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 2: that's going to work for us. I mean, I think, 50 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 2: you know, for example, you know, one of the really 51 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 2: biggest concerns that people have raised for me with me 52 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 2: is this removal of children from Alice Springs to Darwin, 53 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 2: people across the territory. Even though I'm an independent I'm 54 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 2: fill my community in Johnson, but people from across the 55 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 2: territory calling me to say, what's happening about this? Can 56 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 2: you please raise it? These are children who are being 57 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 2: taken away from their health supports, from their family supports, 58 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 2: and their community supports. And that happened before in Alice Springs, 59 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 2: and we saw that the result was that kids ended 60 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 2: up in prison for a much longer time. The new 61 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 2: laws that have been brought in mean that we're going 62 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 2: to have more and more people in prison We're going 63 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 2: to have more and more people on remand, and I 64 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 2: think I feel like I need to keep saying this 65 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 2: because people don't tend to realize that when you're in 66 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 2: prison on remand, that doesn't mean you've been found guilty. 67 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 2: It just means you're waiting for your court date. And 68 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 2: because of the state of our legal system, because of 69 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 2: the crisis that's in sometimes people wait literally for years 70 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 2: for their day in court and they're not even found guilty. 71 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 2: So that the whole system, I mean, I'll say it again, 72 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 2: the whole system is just in crisis. 73 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: Well, it certainly seems that way. I've literally just been 74 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: handed Justine, So you and I are both hearing and 75 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: reading this first time right now. That's well, we're basically 76 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: being told that there's two youths that have escape from 77 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: Alice Spring Detention overnight. So what I'm being told is 78 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: that last night the seventeen year old youth detainees escaped 79 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: after climbing on the roof of that facility. One of 80 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: the youth escapes has two hundred and seventy three previous 81 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: criminal occurrences with police, while the other had ninety previous 82 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: criminal occurrences. Those two youths now remain at large. So 83 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: we are being told by the Minister for Corrections, Mister 84 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: Jared Mayley, that the incident highlighted the need for major 85 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: changes to the territory's correction system, in which the COLP 86 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: is implementing that three step infrastructure plan. Now, as I said, 87 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: I'm literally reading this for the first time, and I'm 88 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: sure you're hearing it for the first time, as is 89 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: the rest of the Northern Territory. As I read that 90 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 1: out loud, I mean, that's a pretty woeful situation with 91 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: these two seventeen year olds obviously escaping that facility in 92 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: Alae Springs. 93 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the Minister the Corrections is exactly right. We 94 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 2: need major change. What what an incredibly terrible situation that we 95 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: have first of all, young people, children that have that 96 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 2: you know, a history behind them of you know, of 97 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 2: that many interactions with the justice system, and you know 98 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 2: they're still not getting the support and help they need, 99 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 2: which is what the CEOP says they want to do. 100 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 2: You know, we like, as I said, we're going to think. 101 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 2: I fear that things are going to get worse and 102 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 2: worse unless we invest in what we what I believe 103 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 2: will work and what the Coop has said well, which 104 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 2: is addressing the causes of crime, why are these things 105 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 2: happening in the first place, and setting up a system 106 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 2: that doesn't just keep stuffing and overstuffing our prisons. You know, 107 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 2: we can build prisons forever and keep filling them up. 108 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 2: That is not going to address our crime crisis. We 109 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 2: need to look at look at the root causes of it. 110 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 2: If we really want to build a safe community. 111 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,159 Speaker 1: Justine, what do you reckon that we could be doing 112 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: differently right now? 113 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,119 Speaker 2: So I think there needs to be some really well 114 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 2: resourced use facilities for young people, facilities for young people, 115 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 2: places that they can go that are safe. There are 116 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 2: strong community representatives at the moment that say they can 117 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 2: offer those things, and that needs to happen. We need 118 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 2: to invest in on country peacemaking so where people in 119 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 2: communities who have authority can actually work with these young 120 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 2: people to address what's happening and to fix it up. 121 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 2: We need to address in restorative justice programs which actually 122 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 2: what they do is bring true accountability and look after 123 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 2: victims first, all the things that we the Feel piece 124 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 2: says they want to see. There's no shortage, there's a huge. 125 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 2: I could keep going. There's no shortage of things we 126 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 2: could actually be doing today. 127 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: We want to I know, I get a lot of 128 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: feedback on the show, and you know, and I've said 129 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 1: it to you before, I think that we've got so 130 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: many victims of crime that listen to the show that 131 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: feel really frustrated sometimes by this discussion. They're at the 132 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: point where the they're sort of going, do you know 133 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 1: what these kids, some of them do, need to spend 134 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: some time in jail to realize that they've impacted the 135 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: community in such a negative way. So I suppose I'm 136 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: keen to find out are there examples around the nation 137 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: that you can sort of point to where some of 138 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: what you've just spoken about has worked, so that we 139 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: can maybe look at that and go all right, well 140 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: that's worked in this other location. And so while I 141 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: might feel like, you know, putting these kids in jail 142 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: is the right thing to do, hang on, this is 143 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: an example of a program that's worked in another state 144 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: that's been really effective. 145 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, there absolutely are, and not only throughout Australia, also 146 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 2: here in the Northern Territory. I doesn't say, first of all, 147 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 2: of course, people are sick of you know of crime, 148 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 2: a sick of feeling unsafe, as sick of those things happening, 149 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 2: and the solution they have in their mind is let's 150 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: lock these kids out so they can learn a lesson. 151 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 2: But it just doesn't work. So I don't know why 152 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 2: we keep doing something that we know doesn't work. Does work. So, 153 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 2: for example, on Groot Island, the Groot Island Peacemakers, the 154 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 2: imprisonment rate of and the crime rate they're dropped by 155 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 2: more than ninety percent through investing in community based peacemaking options. 156 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 2: So we don't need to look. But there are many 157 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 2: programs and I'd be happy to kind of come and 158 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 2: give examples of that and talk more about it. There's 159 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 2: programs that I've been involved in here in the NT 160 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 2: that work to As I said, what people want is 161 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 2: young people to be or whoever's committed a crime to 162 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 2: be accountable. I agree, I agree there's a huge gap 163 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 2: in accountability, but you don't People do not feel accountable 164 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 2: when you lock them up. We know that's not true. 165 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 2: So they feel accountable when they sit down with someone 166 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 2: who they've hurt and have to listen to their story 167 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 2: and acknowledge it and then work out how to fix 168 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 2: it up. So that's what a restorative justice program can 169 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 2: do and it works. 170 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: Justin will move along because there is a lot happening 171 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: around the place this morning. And another topic which I'm 172 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: not sure whether you've seen much about, but I know 173 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: we have spoken about in the past. It is a 174 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: situation with Legal Aid. Now we know that you know 175 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: that there are obviously very much underfunded at this point 176 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: in time, the organization confirming a bit earlier in the 177 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: year that they're dramatically cutting back some of those critical 178 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: services due to insufficient funding. Now the ABC reporting this 179 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: morning that a man who appeared in the Northern Territory 180 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: Supreme Court in Darwin charge for serious offenses was released 181 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: on bail, partly due to uncertainty around whether his trial 182 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: could proceed. So The allegations reportedly involved domestic violence related 183 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: offenses and one counter aggravated robbery, which carries a maximum 184 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: sentence of life in prison. Unable to afford his own lawyer, 185 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: the man has been receiving legal Aid representation from a 186 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: private criminal law firm under an arrangement funded by Legal 187 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: Aid here in the Northern Territory, and he's due to 188 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: face criminal trials starting on January sixth. But what's being 189 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: reported is that the critical service cuts at Legal Aid 190 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: mean that he's no longer going to have a lawyer 191 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: to defend him at that upcoming trial. And in the 192 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 1: matter hood yesterday, the prosecution argued that the Dawa man's 193 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: bail applications should be refused out of concern for the 194 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: complainant's safety. But according to this report by Samantha Dick, 195 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: the accused had previously been denied bail due to the 196 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: close proximity of his proposed address. However, Justice Blocklin said 197 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,959 Speaker 1: that ongoing uncertainty at Legal Aid, combined with other factors 198 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: such as the defendant securing a new address and agreeing 199 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: to comply with strict bail conditions, influenced her decision to 200 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: ultimately grant him bail. Justine, Like, it's a dire situation, 201 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: There is no doubt about that. What do you think 202 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: needs to happen here? 203 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 2: We cannot have a legal system which where people are unrepresented, 204 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 2: where we're putting our community, both the people who are 205 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 2: before the court and the rest of the community at risk. 206 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 2: Like it's just as you do said, I mean, this 207 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 2: is a compot. I'm not going to comment on the 208 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 2: particularities of that case, but there are so many things 209 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 2: within that that point to where the system is falling apart. 210 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 2: And unless we have a really robust legal system that's 211 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:19,959 Speaker 2: properly resourced that can represent people, we're going to see 212 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 2: more and more situations where justice is not served. And 213 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 2: so I mean, there's the cuts to legal aid coming 214 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 2: or the lack of funding to legal aid at the 215 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 2: same time as a huge increased pressure on our legal 216 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 2: system because of these new laws that the SEAL people 217 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 2: brought in. Once again, Like, I'm really worried about what 218 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 2: we're going to see here in our community. Like everyone, 219 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 2: I want to have a safe community, like everyone, I 220 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 2: care about community safety, and I just I feel like 221 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 2: that's not what we're going to be seeing here. We're 222 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 2: going to it's going to get worse and worse. Yeah, 223 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 2: it is. 224 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 1: We need to sort this outside. I know it's easiest 225 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: said than done, but we certainly need to get this 226 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: situation sorted out with legal later. I've put in a 227 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: request to have the Attorney General on the show for 228 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 1: tomorrow morning, so I'm hoping that I'm able to do that. Justine, 229 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: I am going to have to leave it there. Unfortunately 230 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: we have got such a busy show lined up. Always 231 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: appreciate your time and thank you so much for joining 232 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: me this morning. 233 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 2: No worries, Thanks Katie, thank you. 234 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: Talks you soon.