1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: We know as the federal election approaches, doctors from the 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: Royal Australian College of GPS their meeting in Victoria, to 3 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 1: workshop solutions to entice more GPS, to training communities to 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: meet demand. It is all in a bid to ensure 5 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: that Ozzie's have access to GP care in rural and 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 1: remote areas, which is vital in keeping people healthy and 7 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: out of hospital. Now joining us on the line to 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: tell us a little bit more is the Royal Australian 9 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: College of GPS NT chair Doctor Sam Heard. Good morning 10 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: to you, Sam. 11 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 2: Okay, how are you really good? 12 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, can 13 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: you paint us a bit of a picture of the 14 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: levels of patient demand and the number of doctors working 15 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: in remote and regional areas. 16 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's certainly well below where it needs to be. 17 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 2: We've done a ring around twice over the last couple 18 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 2: of years and talked to all the practices and the 19 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 2: feedback is we're about one hundred GPS short in the 20 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 2: Northern territory. So that's why I've got good data. And 21 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 2: it obviously varies. It's more acute the more remote you go, 22 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 2: but even big regional centers are short of GPS, and 23 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 2: that's what we're hoping to try and come up with 24 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 2: some ideas to change that. 25 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: I mean, one hundred is a lot, like when you 26 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: consider the number of people that need to see GPS regularly, 27 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: one hundred is a lot to be short, isn't it. 28 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 2: It is? It's a lot, and you know it's sort 29 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 2: of You've got urgent care centers that are springing up 30 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 2: to try and address it. But the problems there that's 31 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: why we need the urgent care centers really because we 32 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 2: haven't got enough GPS that you can get into pretty easily, 33 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 2: which you need to be able to when you're sick, 34 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 2: don't you. 35 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: Well, that's exactly right. And then if you can't get 36 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: in to see someone so often, what ends up happening 37 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: is if you get sicker, you then wind up an emergency. 38 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: That's right up, you know. I guess that's by not 39 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 2: looking after general practice. I guess the urgent care center 40 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 2: is a sort of halfway house to give you another option, 41 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 2: But really you need to see the person who knows 42 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 2: you and knows what's wrong with you and you know, 43 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,559 Speaker 2: can honestly deal with you often quite quickly and efficiently. 44 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: Because you have that relationship. 45 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, what are some of the barriers for GPS when 46 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: it comes to sort of, you know, going romote. 47 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 2: So you know, I just take it regionally remote. The 48 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,839 Speaker 2: further out you go, the things change. The fundamental thing 49 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 2: I guess is Medicare came in. It was a good 50 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: idea and it gradually kind of got into this free service. 51 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 2: And a lot of people think GPS are paid by 52 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 2: the government, but they're not. They're paid by a Medicare rebate, 53 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 2: But basically we're paid by people who come to see it. 54 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 2: And what Medicare did was make a level playing field 55 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 2: across the country. So suddenly expectations and fees and everything 56 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 2: got to be the same. And if you're a GP 57 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 2: in a rural area, you tended to see less people 58 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 2: for longer and sort out the problems. You went to 59 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 2: the hospital and did some operations even and you know, 60 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 2: you did a lot of other things. Yeah, and that's 61 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 2: kind of the world's changed. And now we left with 62 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 2: this very flat thing where GPS in Catherine earned the 63 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: same as GPS in in Sydney for each individual consult 64 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: but they don't have the specialist backup they're dealing with 65 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,839 Speaker 2: lots of more complex problems and so they end up 66 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 2: earning less money than if you work in the city. 67 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: So what do you reckon? The solutions are in terms 68 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: of trying to, you know, to make it more attractive 69 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: for doctors to spend some time in remote and regional 70 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: locations and you know, incentivizing them as well. 71 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 2: I guess yeah, well, you know, I want to reach 72 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 2: out a whole community, because it's not just doctors in 73 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 2: this space. Is that we've got police, we've got teachers, 74 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: We've got all sorts of people in this space. So 75 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 2: if we're going to do something about this and just 76 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 2: living in rural and remote Australia needs to be easier 77 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: and more and less costly, and you know, the government 78 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 2: needs to address that or we're going to dry up 79 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 2: all the people. And you know, we know how much 80 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: of the wealth of Australia comes out of rural regional areas. 81 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 2: But you know it's just tough now, isn't it. So 82 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 2: the first thing is making towns and remotes me livable. 83 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: You know, you've got good schools, you've got good teachers, 84 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: you've got good health care. Everybody wants that. You want 85 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 2: police force to be available when necessary. So that's number one, 86 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 2: I think livable. The second is that gps need to 87 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 2: earn enough income to make it worth running a business. 88 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 2: So it's not when you go in and you pay 89 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 2: your GP, you're paying for the all the material that's there, 90 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 2: you pay for the office, you're paying for all the 91 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,679 Speaker 2: educational stuff that goes on everything. Right, So that's people 92 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 2: feel like, you know, the government gives you if you're 93 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 2: not going to healthcare card, it gives you forty five 94 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 2: dollars to see a GP. Okay, that's what we get 95 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: if we both bill you. Now your hairdresser usually charges 96 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 2: more than that. You know, it's kind of it's not 97 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 2: enough to run that complex service. 98 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: And so in terms of you know, the commitments that 99 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: that are really being sought as we head into a 100 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,239 Speaker 1: federal election this year, what do you think would help 101 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: in all of these areas. I mean, you're talking about 102 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: the liveability obviously in regional and remote areas, and that's 103 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,799 Speaker 1: something we all you know, we all bang on about 104 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: quite often and trying to grow our population. But you know, 105 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,799 Speaker 1: what kind of things are you looking for from both 106 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: the Labor Party and the Coalition in terms of you know, 107 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: trying to help in this space. 108 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 2: So one is more more GPS training and making it 109 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 2: easy for GPS in training to come and become specialists 110 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 2: here because then they're more likely to stay here and 111 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 2: work here. And we have had large numbers doing that. 112 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 2: It's a good place to learn, but it's dropped away 113 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 2: severely over the since COVID really, so we've got to 114 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 2: turn that around. And that means, you know, housing everything available. 115 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 2: If you're going to come up here, try and rent 116 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 2: a house in our springs for six months impossible, you know, 117 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 2: so you can't try and see so training, getting more 118 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 2: GPS training in this environment and local government and NT 119 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 2: government and the FEDS all have a role to play 120 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 2: in that area. But the big, big ask from GPS 121 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 2: is that patients get more rebate when they go to 122 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 2: see a GP, so that the GP can charge a 123 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 2: reasonable fee and the patient doesn't feel they're missing out. 124 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 2: And I ask all the listeners who have got a 125 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 2: good income to understand paying a GP is important. Don't 126 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 2: this idea that health service should be free. That's fine, 127 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 2: but you've actually got to pay for it if you 128 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 2: want it to be free, and expecting a GP to 129 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 2: see you for twenty minutes and get forty five dollars. 130 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 2: It's really not on. 131 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you're paying for a service. And I suppose 132 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: the thing is at this point in time as well, 133 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: is literally, you know, everyone is actually needing to put 134 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: their prices up to some degree because we're all grappling 135 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: with this cost of living. And I know that there's 136 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: so many of us in you know, every time you 137 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: kind of go to do something, whether it's to see 138 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: the GP, whether it's to buy groceries, whatever it is, 139 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: it all feels like it's going up. But even for 140 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: those of you, like the GPS are ultimately trying to 141 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: run a. 142 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 2: Business absolutely, you know, and not in a big business 143 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 2: sort of a sense viable. So you take home a salary, 144 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 2: you know, you take home money, and you feel good 145 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: when you go home and you're getting on in life. 146 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, have you had much traction from you know, 147 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: from either of the major political party in terms of 148 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: potentially doing things a little bit. 149 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 2: Differently, Well, I think, you know, to the credit of 150 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 2: the current Labor Party, they did something that did help 151 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 2: a lot, which was they tripled the bolt billing incentive. 152 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: So what I've said about going to the doctor and 153 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 2: paying if you've got a health care card, you actually 154 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 2: get another forty dollars in remote areas to give to 155 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 2: the doctor. So having a healthcare card and being bolt 156 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 2: built is a bit more likely and it will cover 157 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 2: most of the costs in remote areas. So if for 158 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 2: people who can't afford to pay, they actually get quite 159 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 2: a big subsidy. So that's good and that's new, and 160 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 2: that was a really big bonus for rural areas. But 161 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 2: if you look at the practices in rural areas, they 162 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 2: don't build volt bill very much. The people who go 163 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 2: to the GPS and don't go to the hospitals generally 164 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 2: don't have health care card, so it hasn't made much 165 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 2: difference to ruin remote gvs. So we need more than that. 166 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 2: We need the next lot of government to really think 167 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 2: about how we get GP's paper and that means more 168 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 2: money for more complex consultations and that you know GPS 169 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 2: get a good payment for that means the patient isn't 170 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 2: out of pocket too much to get a good service. 171 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 2: That's a critical area. We all know that every GP 172 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,559 Speaker 2: survey that's what they say they need. Well. 173 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: Royal Australian College of GPS NT Chair Doctor Sam hurd 174 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: I really appreciate your time this morning. Thank you as always. 175 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 2: For having a chat with me. Cheers, thank you.