Speaker 1: Life Uncut podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout
Speaker 1: Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We
Speaker 1: pay our respect to their elders past and present and
Speaker 1: extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait islander
Speaker 1: peoples today.
Speaker 2: This episode is recorded on Gadigal Land of the Aurora Nation.
Speaker 1: Hey guys, and I'll welcome back to another episode of
Speaker 1: Lifetime Card.
Speaker 2: I'm Brittany and I'm Laura, and my holy dooly, it
Speaker 2: has been a big week so far.
Speaker 3: I thought you were going to.
Speaker 2: Say a big morning, but yeah, it's been a big
Speaker 2: week as well. Okay, book launch Doune and dusted. Book
Speaker 2: Launch Press were almost unundusted. Still on the way signed
Speaker 2: my wedding papers. I don't know what that even means,
Speaker 2: but actually mean one of my best friends is going
Speaker 2: to be our celebrant and she brought over all of
Speaker 2: the documents and stuff that we needed to sign. And
Speaker 2: can I tell you our wedding is five weeks away now,
Speaker 2: and we are the most unorganized couple that there has
Speaker 2: ever been that's gotten married. You would think we're eloping.
Speaker 2: I've been engaged for three and a half years.
Speaker 1: I'm not arguing that point.
Speaker 2: Whats like, we don't even okay to the point of
Speaker 2: so we're getting married. It's an outdoor wedding. We only
Speaker 2: just discovered that we don't actually have chairs for anyone
Speaker 2: to sit on at the reception, so we've just had
Speaker 2: to hire chairs.
Speaker 3: They're coming from three hours away. Because stand up wedding
Speaker 3: on your feet.
Speaker 2: On your feet, ladies and gentlemen, stand for the bride,
Speaker 2: because there's literally no chairs here.
Speaker 3: I want to stand innovation.
Speaker 2: We've also had some problems with flowers, so we don't
Speaker 2: have any flowers organized yet, but that's also on its way.
Speaker 3: And hadn't organized a cake, but I did that this week.
Speaker 1: Okay, do you have a venue, yes, and you have
Speaker 1: a fiance.
Speaker 3: I have a have a ring, not yet. I still
Speaker 3: haven't got my ring, but that's okay. I'm making my ring.
Speaker 3: Do you know what.
Speaker 2: I've always been the kind of person that's like very
Speaker 2: good under pressure. Unless I've got a deadline, I will
Speaker 2: work to that deadline. But if you just give me
Speaker 2: an arbitrary date, you know I might not ever get done.
Speaker 1: I'm exactly the same, and that is why this podcast
Speaker 1: is always so chaotic because we're like, oh, this has
Speaker 1: to be done tomorrow, Okay.
Speaker 3: Better do it now. At one am.
Speaker 2: Every single Tuesday and Thursday, we're like, fuck that crept.
Speaker 3: Up real fast.
Speaker 1: Well, I still have to find a dress for your wedding.
Speaker 1: So I keep forgetting that I have to do that,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to do that this week.
Speaker 3: What about my hens? Which is this weekend?
Speaker 1: I'm done?
Speaker 3: Oh, I am already.
Speaker 1: I have your G string ready, I have your I
Speaker 1: have everything ready for you. I have my own dress.
Speaker 1: I'm fully clothed.
Speaker 3: Am I just wearing a G string to my hens?
Speaker 3: Is that what that means?
Speaker 1: Yeah? And like those little you know, those nipple covers
Speaker 1: that have the like like what's.
Speaker 3: It called some tassels? Yeah, some nipple tassels. I like that.
Speaker 2: We're playing a game of charades while you got I'd
Speaker 2: like it out there and like tassel them.
Speaker 3: In the air. But do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: I know you're making your ring. I'm just gonna say this.
Speaker 1: I'm just going to throw this out there. My sister's
Speaker 1: getting married in two weeks, yikes. And Laura made her
Speaker 1: wedding bantu and it is so beautiful.
Speaker 2: We just turned it this week, Tony May. If anyone
Speaker 2: wants an engagement ring, I know someone who can sort
Speaker 2: you out.
Speaker 1: It's really, really beautiful. So I had a little moment
Speaker 1: when you gave it her. I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: everyone here around me, in my whole entire life's getting married.
Speaker 3: I love this.
Speaker 2: We love that.
Speaker 3: And then do you know what I.
Speaker 1: Said to Laura, I'm really going rogue here. Laura has
Speaker 1: these like this is not sponsored by Tony May, but Laura's.
Speaker 3: Showing it could be. It could be.
Speaker 1: Laura's showing me all these beautiful new engagement rings that
Speaker 1: are coming in. And I said, do you think I
Speaker 1: could get one of those? Because I really like the ring.
Speaker 1: It's beautiful, it's got diamonds, but not wear it on
Speaker 1: my engagement ring, just so like I can buy myself
Speaker 1: a nice ring.
Speaker 3: So I think that's where I'm at.
Speaker 2: I think I'm buying myself an engagement ring and just
Speaker 2: gonna put on a different finger for starters. It is
Speaker 2: a beautiful salt and pepper diamonds, So I think you
Speaker 2: can buy yourself an engagement ring, so long as the
Speaker 2: stone doesn't look like an eight like.
Speaker 3: So Laura's Hailey Mail's grabbing this printing bikes he self
Speaker 3: engagement ring?
Speaker 2: Oh dude, okay, but so long as it's not a
Speaker 2: like white diamond princess cut ring, I think you can
Speaker 2: anything else. I'll take the one out of the cart
Speaker 2: and wear it on your middle finger. Don't wear it
Speaker 2: on your wedding finger.
Speaker 3: Then you're fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So my question is is it okay? Can we do this? Yes?
Speaker 2: Yes, I'll make you an engagement engagement ring so you
Speaker 2: can marry yourself.
Speaker 3: So I also have a predicament.
Speaker 2: I bought a dress to wear to my hen's party,
Speaker 2: and like when we're recording this, the hen's party is
Speaker 2: like three days away. I tried it on yesterday and
Speaker 2: I'm so confused, Like it has a skin color slip
Speaker 2: inside it, but nobody's skin color is the color of
Speaker 2: this slip, Like it is bright fluorescent yellow inside, and
Speaker 2: it makes no sense. So I'm quite upset because I
Speaker 2: spent way too much money on it, and now I
Speaker 2: have to send it back and I have nothing.
Speaker 1: I do have a sexy dress. If you want to
Speaker 1: try it on, it's for yourself, I mean, yeah, but
Speaker 1: I haven't worn it, So if you want to be
Speaker 1: the first person wear it.
Speaker 3: We can try it on after this. Is it white?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Do you want white?
Speaker 3: I want white? It's actually black. It to my funeral,
Speaker 3: to my dating funeral. Don't you have to wear a
Speaker 3: white dear Hens party? Isn't that a thing to do anything?
Speaker 3: It's true? But okay, we'll saw this out after.
Speaker 2: We're not gonna have this whole We're not gonna have
Speaker 2: a fashion wardrobe conversation live on the podcast.
Speaker 3: Do you know what? Okay?
Speaker 2: We spoke about something on our Tuesday episode. Obviously, we
Speaker 2: spoke a lot about the book and about all of
Speaker 2: our personal trauma and tragedies, but we also spoke about
Speaker 2: something at the beginning of the episode which I have been.
Speaker 3: Like sitting on all week really wanting to unpack.
Speaker 2: We talked about Dama and the new series It's on
Speaker 2: Netflix that follows Jeffrey Dahmer, the serial killer, and just
Speaker 2: the complete, unbelievable atrocities that he committed.
Speaker 3: Now, I've only.
Speaker 2: Watched two episodes of the series, and I have checked
Speaker 2: the fuck out because it is truly too much for me,
Speaker 2: and I know that there are other people who probably
Speaker 2: feel the same as me. They've watched a bit and
Speaker 2: they just can't stomach it. And then there's also people
Speaker 2: like Britt who have kind of gone gung ho when
Speaker 2: they're at the end of the series already. But it
Speaker 2: is one at actually it is now Netflix's most downloaded series.
Speaker 2: It is akin to Stranger Things, which we know was
Speaker 2: like an absolute blockbuster behemoth. But I have a few
Speaker 2: feelings and I want to unpack it. So the question
Speaker 2: that we raised on Tuesday's episode was whether or not
Speaker 2: the victims families Dama's Victims Families had received anything from
Speaker 2: this movie series or TV series, because obviously being like
Speaker 2: one of the most downloaded Netflix series of all time
Speaker 2: means that it's also made the most money out of
Speaker 2: all the Netflix series of all time. And we have
Speaker 2: done a bit of a deep dive in investigation. I
Speaker 2: know that Britta and I we had a very heated conversation.
Speaker 1: We have actually been we find at this We've been
Speaker 1: having it well, we've been no you know what it
Speaker 1: wasn't We've been having a great debate, a discussion, a
Speaker 1: very like Sometimes it was heated. Sometimes we had a
Speaker 1: few variations in opinions, but overall we got to the
Speaker 1: same place. It is not insane that this is made
Speaker 1: number one in the world because we as a society
Speaker 1: and a generation, we all know we have a huge
Speaker 1: obsession with true crime, and it doesn't matter what platform.
Speaker 1: We know, crime books, top sellers, number one podcasts in
Speaker 1: the world are true crime. Number one shows in the
Speaker 1: world true crime. But it's insane that this can go
Speaker 1: number one in Netflix and make the most money ever
Speaker 1: and not a dime goes to the family.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we did a bit of a deep dive,
Speaker 2: and you know, we asked the question and then we
Speaker 2: kind of sat there and we're like, we don't know
Speaker 2: the answer to that, so we'll get back to you.
Speaker 2: So there have been quite a few articles that have
Speaker 2: come out in the last couple of days which are
Speaker 2: from the victim's families, and the answer to that is
Speaker 2: is that no nobody has received any money off the
Speaker 2: back of the Netflix series. And there was one really
Speaker 2: interesting article that I came across, and the woman who's
Speaker 2: been interviewed is readA Isabel. She's the sister to Errol Lindsay,
Speaker 2: who was nineteen years old when he was murdered by Darma.
Speaker 2: The reason why her statement is so important, so she
Speaker 2: did a victim impact statement when the actual trial was
Speaker 2: on and she was understandably unconsolable and out of control.
Speaker 2: She actually said, you know, they were trying to argue
Speaker 2: that Dama was not in control of his actions, that
Speaker 2: he was out of his mind, crazy as a serial killer,
Speaker 2: and she on the stand lost control and said, you know,
Speaker 2: if you want to see what out of control is,
Speaker 2: this is what out of control looks like. And she
Speaker 2: was screaming and obviously so so so upset by what
Speaker 2: she had to experience. Now the Netflix series has recreated
Speaker 2: that moment. They have recreated reader on the stand saying
Speaker 2: word for word her victim impact statement. And this article
Speaker 2: that I came across was so interesting because Riata says
Speaker 2: she watched this play out.
Speaker 3: She watched that episode.
Speaker 2: Nobody had ever contacted her from Netflix or from any
Speaker 2: production company to even tell her that Dharma was happening.
Speaker 2: So she or she is being represented on screen an
Speaker 2: exact replica of herself, wearing the exact clothes. She even said,
Speaker 2: if I didn't know that was a movie, I would
Speaker 2: have thought that that was me. But nobody made any
Speaker 2: contact with her to let her know that this was unfolding.
Speaker 3: I myself have struggled.
Speaker 2: To watch this series, and there are so many reasons
Speaker 2: as to why I feel like it's a true Like Traumaupon,
Speaker 2: it is an exploitation of victim's life, but this this
Speaker 2: kind of adds another layer to that where I'm like,
Speaker 2: what is the purpose of this mini series?
Speaker 3: Is it purely just for entertainment value?
Speaker 1: There's a level of is this glorifying these serial killers?
Speaker 1: Is that what it's doing? How do we use a
Speaker 1: consumer consume the show overall entertainment? Like you said, Laura,
Speaker 1: we had this discussion. Entertainment is the purpose? Right for
Speaker 1: somebody like me who has I have a very high
Speaker 1: interest in true crime.
Speaker 3: I always have.
Speaker 1: I used to want to be a criminal psychologist. For me,
Speaker 1: I'm so intrigued and interested in what is going on
Speaker 1: in somebody's brain or what has happened to them in
Speaker 1: their life to make them do the things that they do.
Speaker 1: The fact that Netflix came out and said, you know,
Speaker 1: we're trying to do this respectfully to the victim's families,
Speaker 1: did they Yeah? Is a load of bullshit. Netflix said
Speaker 1: they had an intention to do the show with respect
Speaker 1: to the families. So Rita's cousin, Eric, has been in
Speaker 1: big support of Rita during this time and also making
Speaker 1: public comments about his thoughts. Eric said in response to that,
Speaker 1: So when they say they're doing this with respect to
Speaker 1: the familyamilies or honoring the dignity of the families, no
Speaker 1: one contacts them. My cousin wakes up every few months
Speaker 1: at this point with a bunch of calls and messages
Speaker 1: telling them that they know there is another Dhama show.
Speaker 1: It is just cruel. It's like reliving it over and
Speaker 1: over again. Nobody was contact about this show. Nobody receives
Speaker 1: any money from this show except for Netflix. So that
Speaker 1: is one hundred percent in my eyes, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to think almost every single person that listens to this
Speaker 1: that is not respect to the families in my sense.
Speaker 3: Just I don't know.
Speaker 1: It leaves me a little bit gobsmacked that you could
Speaker 1: produce something of this level knowing you're going to create
Speaker 1: a revenue stream that is beyond anything Netflix has ever
Speaker 1: made by exploiting victims, families and victims, but not giving
Speaker 1: a dollar back to the victims, or to a charity
Speaker 1: or to anything is a bit mind boggling in this
Speaker 1: day and age.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it does kind of then all play
Speaker 2: into that this is and when we say entertainment, we
Speaker 2: don't mean like entertainment is like watching a comedy. Obviously
Speaker 2: nobody is watching this and then feeling good at the
Speaker 2: end of it. But we are watching it because we're
Speaker 2: so intrigued, and I guess I wanted to unpack like
Speaker 2: why this show made me feel so uncomfortable. And you know,
Speaker 2: I love true crime also, I love watching listening to
Speaker 2: podcasts like The Teacher's Pet, I love watching documentaries on it.
Speaker 2: But this feels very fucking different. And I think a
Speaker 2: lot of people would agree. And the reason why this
Speaker 2: feels so different is because it's like a Hollywood afied
Speaker 2: version of a real story. And when I say that,
Speaker 2: what I mean is, yes, it's followed like the true events.
Speaker 2: It's trying to depict things in a very very real way,
Speaker 2: almost like a hyper real way. But the addition of
Speaker 2: the production value behind it, like the music and the lighting,
Speaker 2: and the kind of the suspense driving nature of it,
Speaker 2: like it is something that has you sitting on the
Speaker 2: end of your seat, like every single time an episode finishes,
Speaker 2: you are hooked and want to know what's the next thing,
Speaker 2: And I think it's this blurred line between Hollywood and
Speaker 2: true story that's told from the killer's perspective that leaves
Speaker 2: me feeling totally unsettled by the whole production.
Speaker 1: But I think it's one of these things. This has
Speaker 1: been happening for a long time. It's exposure therapy. Over
Speaker 1: the years, we've seen these creations, like we saw Ted
Speaker 1: Bundy with zac Efron, which was the same thing, but
Speaker 1: I think produced on a bit of a lesser scale.
Speaker 1: As time progresses, we get so used to something that
Speaker 1: we do crave more. And I think that's why it's
Speaker 1: turned into these I don't even want to say blockbusters,
Speaker 1: but it is as a blockbuster, and it's because as
Speaker 1: a consumer, evidently we're wanting more and more.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I guess this was the thing that Britain
Speaker 2: and I got into a debate about off microphone earlier.
Speaker 2: It's because I feel like this series Dama sets a
Speaker 2: real new precedent in how we're viewing true crime, and
Speaker 2: I think that the production element of it really kind
Speaker 2: of escalates it to a point where it's more around
Speaker 2: don't want to say glamorization, because obviously Dama is not
Speaker 2: He's not glamorized, but it does humanize him. It shows
Speaker 2: so much around like the fights between his parents, around
Speaker 2: the trauma that he experienced as a child, and I
Speaker 2: think that showing it from his perspective humanizes him more
Speaker 2: than it humanizes the victims. And what comes to mind
Speaker 2: is the second episode where there is a fourteen year
Speaker 2: old boy and I don't want to I mean, obviously
Speaker 2: I don't want to give away too much of the story,
Speaker 2: but like it's also a true story, so you can
Speaker 2: find out exactly what happened. But there is a fourteen
Speaker 2: year old boy who is his victim, and he wakes
Speaker 2: up and he trips over another dead man on the ground,
Speaker 2: and my first thought was, that's a real person, that
Speaker 2: is someone's son lying dead on the ground. But for
Speaker 2: the storyline of this series, his story wasn't important enough
Speaker 2: to be told, so he was just a dead body
Speaker 2: on the floor. And I guess like looking at it
Speaker 2: from that perspective made me feel incredibly uncomfortable. And then
Speaker 2: when I think about, you know, there are obviously so
Speaker 2: many other Netflix series, there are so many other podcasts.
Speaker 2: Teaches pet comes to mind, and that's obviously a true
Speaker 2: crime podcast. We talked about recently. It's something that we
Speaker 2: were so hooked on, but it felt like the outcome
Speaker 2: of that had a purpose, Like it was an incredible
Speaker 2: achievement of justice to have Chris Dawson put behind bars.
Speaker 2: He is being held accountable for the crimes that he committed,
Speaker 2: Whereas I don't think that there is any purpose to
Speaker 2: this except for entertainment.
Speaker 1: I don't know where the line is. I think as
Speaker 1: a consumer, this is going to continue to happen because
Speaker 1: we're going to get used to this now, so we're
Speaker 1: not going to want to go backwards. We're not gonna
Speaker 1: want to watch anything that hasn't been as such a
Speaker 1: big production. We're gonna want more and more and more.
Speaker 1: I don't know where the line is, and I don't
Speaker 1: know what we can do to stop it, because people
Speaker 1: are still going to want.
Speaker 3: To watch it.
Speaker 2: The voyeurism has become so extreme, the need for more information.
Speaker 2: Not only do we want more information, we want to
Speaker 2: watch like in detail the brutality kind of play out.
Speaker 2: And I think that the more that we're exposed to it,
Speaker 2: where do we go to next? Like what's the next
Speaker 2: big thing? But I feel like we could talk about
Speaker 2: this series for forever, and you know what, I feel like,
Speaker 2: so many people are watching it, so many people are
Speaker 2: talking about it at the moment.
Speaker 3: But let's get.
Speaker 2: Into what we do on every Thursday's episode, and that
Speaker 2: is answering all of your deep, you're dark and your
Speaker 2: burning questions.
Speaker 3: Brittany, do you want to hit it with number one? Okay?
Speaker 1: This first question is a bit more of a serious question.
Speaker 1: It is I'm mentioning this because we did speak about
Speaker 1: abortion and pregnancy on Tuesday's episode when Laura was talking
Speaker 1: about things that she went through in the book. So
Speaker 1: this is about abortion. If this is going to be
Speaker 1: triggering for you, tune out of this one. I'm twenty six.
Speaker 1: I've got a beautiful partner and we've been together and
Speaker 1: living together for about a year and a half. In February,
Speaker 1: we fell pregnant. I have endometriosis, and he's thirty five
Speaker 1: and he's never had a pregnancy scare before, so we
Speaker 1: naively thought we would struggle to conceive naturally. We decided
Speaker 1: to medically terminate a pregnancy for a few reasons. It
Speaker 1: was a very hard decision to make, but mainly that
Speaker 1: the initial response to the positive test was that we
Speaker 1: weren't that excited. The termination was really hard. The healthcare
Speaker 1: system really let me down, not to mention how painful
Speaker 1: it was, and I swore I wouldn't go through it
Speaker 1: again if we did e before pregnant again. Fast forward
Speaker 1: seven months, I think we are in the same position.
Speaker 1: My main question is is it selfish to keep this
Speaker 1: pregnancy when only seven months ago I had a termination?
Speaker 1: Is it selfish to keep an unplanned baby? The guilt
Speaker 1: that I have is just so strong. Thank you in advance.
Speaker 3: This is such a big question.
Speaker 2: And I mean, we spoke a little bit about abortion
Speaker 2: on Tuesday's episode. My very first thought, the very first
Speaker 2: thing that I want to say, is just because you
Speaker 2: decided seven months ago that you didn't want to have
Speaker 2: a baby and you went through with having a termination,
Speaker 2: you don't have to be that as a constant. You know,
Speaker 2: you've experienced something that you never experienced before. You never
Speaker 2: had an abortion before, You had no idea how you
Speaker 2: were going to respond to that situation. It could have
Speaker 2: been relief, it could have been regret, it could have
Speaker 2: been guilt, all of those feelings. That doesn't mean that
Speaker 2: just because seven months later you're pregnant again, that you
Speaker 2: have to have an abortion. Your feelings and thoughts could
Speaker 2: have changed in that length of time. Your situation could
Speaker 2: have changed in that length of time. Your relationship with
Speaker 2: your partner could have changed in that length of time. Fuck,
Speaker 2: your relationship with yourself.
Speaker 3: Could have changed in that time.
Speaker 2: You are allowed to do whatever you want to do,
Speaker 2: and you don't have to feel guilt for it. And
Speaker 2: I think something that I touched on on Tuesday, which
Speaker 2: I think ties into this and is really important.
Speaker 3: The decision that you made.
Speaker 2: Seven months ago does not have to be intertwined into
Speaker 2: the decision that you make now. And there doesn't need
Speaker 2: to be the guilt there, doesn't need to be like
Speaker 2: you're not being punished for that decision. This is not calmer,
Speaker 2: None of those things apply. And I think that sometimes
Speaker 2: we can kind of hang on to maybe I deserve this,
Speaker 2: Maybe this is my second chance. Sometimes life just works
Speaker 2: out the way it does, and you've been put in
Speaker 2: the same position again, and it's up to you to
Speaker 2: choose whatever is the right decision for you now and
Speaker 2: in this moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, guilt is such a strong and overwhelming human emotion.
Speaker 1: Guilt is incredibly powerful and can make you do feel
Speaker 1: say some pretty crazy things. Things can change in seven months.
Speaker 1: A lot can change the way you feel, the way
Speaker 1: you view things, financial situations, your situation with your partner,
Speaker 1: maybe what you went through with that has made you
Speaker 1: realize that you do want one and you are ready
Speaker 1: for a child, and you are ready to take that journey.
Speaker 1: It's a very difficult situation. All I can say is
Speaker 1: that whatever is right for you now is okay. And
Speaker 1: I really hope that you do let go of any
Speaker 1: guilt that you've had, because you just have to know
Speaker 1: that at that point of your life, you made a
Speaker 1: decision that you felt was right.
Speaker 2: And I like what you said in terms of like
Speaker 2: guilt being this it's such a big, un loaded emotion.
Speaker 3: And oftentimes when.
Speaker 2: We feel guilt, it's because we have breached our own
Speaker 2: moral code. You know, something that we have done, or
Speaker 2: something that we have you know, something doesn't sit right
Speaker 2: with us. And I think that for you to be
Speaker 2: in this situation now and feel guilt, it could be
Speaker 2: from two places. It could be that you feel guilty
Speaker 2: because you regret having the earlier abortion, or it could
Speaker 2: be that you feel guilty because you had an abortion
Speaker 2: and now seven months later, you're in a position where
Speaker 2: you can have our baby and you think, well, surely
Speaker 2: I could have done it seven months ago. So there's
Speaker 2: a lot of different things that are loaded into this.
Speaker 2: And I mean, without knowing you and knowing more around
Speaker 2: your situation, we're never going to know what the right
Speaker 2: answer to that is. But I do think that it's
Speaker 2: okay you to change your mind, and it's okay for
Speaker 2: your situation to have changed, and you don't need to
Speaker 2: hold onto that guilt. You don't need to be sorry
Speaker 2: for the decisions that you made because when you made them,
Speaker 2: they were the right decision for you at that time,
Speaker 2: and you made the best decision you could with the
Speaker 2: information you had. And that's what's most important question.
Speaker 3: That was very big. It was a very big question,
Speaker 3: But you know what, I think that's the mos important one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And most people suffer through the conversations around abortion
Speaker 2: on their own because there's so much fucking shame attached
Speaker 2: to it. Like most women who are thinking about or
Speaker 2: experiencing an abortion don't even speak to their friends about
Speaker 2: it because they're too worried about what people will think
Speaker 2: and how people will perceive them.
Speaker 1: And what I will say, though It's very easy for
Speaker 1: us to sit here and say, don't hold on to
Speaker 1: that and don't feel that, But it's another thing for
Speaker 1: you to actually action that. And if you are experiencing
Speaker 1: really big feelings of guilt and you're holding onto that
Speaker 1: and you're not able to move forward, you should speak
Speaker 1: to someone one hundred percent. There's always someone. It might
Speaker 1: just be a friend or maybe you need a therapist first. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but there's a lot that you you can't just shake
Speaker 1: this off and say I'm not going to feel guilt anymore,
Speaker 1: because we know these are things we can hold on
Speaker 1: to for a very long time. Definitely, if this is
Speaker 1: something that you can't deal with and you can't let go,
Speaker 1: one hundred percent, please find a really great, trusted therapist
Speaker 1: and go and sort that out as you move forward
Speaker 1: with your second pregnancy.
Speaker 2: All right, Question number two, Now, this is a slightly
Speaker 2: lighthearted one. Actually it's not lightheard lighthearted, but it's got
Speaker 2: some lighthearted aspects. My mother in law is a hoarder
Speaker 2: and never throws anything out. I'm pretty sure the perfume
Speaker 2: she's using is twenty years old and smells super musky.
Speaker 2: I cannot stand it. Whenever she sleeps over with my son,
Speaker 2: so I'm guessing like Grandma comes over and takes care
Speaker 2: of the sun, she leaves the musky smell all over
Speaker 2: the house, especially on his sheets, which I can't stand.
Speaker 2: How do I tell her to stop using that perfume?
Speaker 1: Can that is so funny?
Speaker 3: You can't.
Speaker 1: I don't think you can tell someone you don't like
Speaker 1: their perfume.
Speaker 3: No, okay.
Speaker 2: But also anyone who has somebody who has horder tendencies
Speaker 2: in their family, usually there's a psychological or deeper reason
Speaker 2: as to why someone does that. And I have experienced
Speaker 2: this with my mom, Like, this is a really big
Speaker 2: conversation for me, because my mum is somebody who really
Speaker 2: struggles to throw anything away. We have just been through
Speaker 2: a very big process of clearing out her home. And
Speaker 2: I'll be able to tell you guys more about that soon.
Speaker 2: That is, you will see that, you will know more
Speaker 2: about it in a few months time. But in my
Speaker 2: mom's case, like her heart A tendencies, I think I
Speaker 2: can't hate call them horder tendencies because it's like there's.
Speaker 3: So much shame around it.
Speaker 2: There's so much shame around people who you know, live
Speaker 2: amongst clutter and can't throw things away. But for my mom,
Speaker 2: like it came from her going through a real period
Speaker 2: in her life where she just didn't have any money,
Speaker 2: so there was such a scarcity mindset that she needed
Speaker 2: to hold onto everything. And now she still struggles, you know,
Speaker 2: in her sixties with throwing things away. So I think, firstly,
Speaker 2: before you just kind of say, oh, she's a hoarder,
Speaker 2: she never throws anything away, is there a deeper reason
Speaker 2: behind it? Is there something that has conditioned her to
Speaker 2: be that way where you might need to have a
Speaker 2: little bit more empathy other than just seeing it as
Speaker 2: her being like a hoarder and it's kind of a
Speaker 2: situation that's annoying to you.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm the controversial opinion here. I think this probably
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with being a hoarder. I think
Speaker 1: you don't like her perfume, Like she might have been
Speaker 1: wearing this perfume for twenty years, but it might be
Speaker 1: a new perfume she's wearing and you just don't like
Speaker 1: the smell. I don't think you can go to someone
Speaker 1: and say I don't like your perfume, you should stop
Speaker 1: wearing it. But what you could do is when it's
Speaker 1: her birthday or when it's Christmas, or as a thank
Speaker 1: you for everything she does, whatever it is, buy her
Speaker 1: a perfume as a gift, give it to her and say,
Speaker 1: you know, like if it was a thank you, just
Speaker 1: like want to thank you for all the hard to
Speaker 1: work you do, birthday whatever, you don't need a reason
Speaker 1: for the birthday. Then when she puts it on or
Speaker 1: she smells it, make a big song and dance about it,
Speaker 1: be like, oh that is so nice, Like this is
Speaker 1: my favorite perfume. Make a point of like how great
Speaker 1: the perfume is, and maybe she'll start wearing it. But
Speaker 1: I don't know if because you don't like it you
Speaker 1: can ask her to stop wearing it.
Speaker 2: I mean, it could also be the case that it's
Speaker 2: just that she layers it on so thie. I mean,
Speaker 2: some people do not have portion control when it comes
Speaker 2: to wearing perfume. We've all been in a situation where
Speaker 2: we've to a guy and he's just gone happy hand
Speaker 2: with the cologne, but like with the Links Africa, with
Speaker 2: the fucking spray it up baby. But like you know,
Speaker 2: it could be more of a consumption problem rather than
Speaker 2: what it is that she's actually wearing. Look The other
Speaker 2: alternate is you can always lie. You can tell her
Speaker 2: that maybe your child's allergic to the perfume or something,
Speaker 2: that he's been getting allergies or skin rashes or whatever
Speaker 2: a lot, and that you guys are all trying to
Speaker 2: go organic and perfume free. That could be another alternate,
Speaker 2: but you can't. You cannot just approach the situation by
Speaker 2: telling your mother in law that you don't like her
Speaker 2: twenty year old perfume.
Speaker 1: No go to go badly, Absolutely not. All right, last question.
Speaker 1: I've been seeing a guy for about seven weeks now.
Speaker 1: It's all going pretty well. We see each other about
Speaker 1: once a week, and most times after a date, we
Speaker 1: have sex. So here's the thing. We have great sexual
Speaker 1: chemistry and the quality is pretty good. However, over the
Speaker 1: last seven weeks he's made me orgasm only once, and
Speaker 1: the last time we slept together, I faked my first orgasm.
Speaker 1: We generally have sex twice in one session. He asked
Speaker 1: me how many times I came to which I said once,
Speaker 1: to which he was very surprised that I didn't come
Speaker 1: both times. So here's my dilemma. When is the right
Speaker 1: time to provide feedback on what I need when having sex.
Speaker 1: Like many women, I can't orgasm with just penetrative sex
Speaker 1: and need other things to assist, if.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So, long story short, she's been faking her orgasms.
Speaker 3: But she only faked once.
Speaker 1: She had sex right twice in one session. He said,
Speaker 1: how many times did you come? She lied and said once,
Speaker 1: So she came no times?
Speaker 3: Oh you came to?
Speaker 2: Okay, girl, you need to stop acting so enthusiastic if
Speaker 2: he is not getting you there, like you need a
Speaker 2: tone back the moaning and the like r ring and
Speaker 2: just like, do not give him the impression that you
Speaker 2: have came. If he is coming out of two separate
Speaker 2: times thinking that you had multiple orgasms, you are overperforming
Speaker 2: for him. He does not need that much reassurance. Actually,
Speaker 2: he needs a lot more feedback.
Speaker 1: So she's only come once in the whole time they've
Speaker 1: seen each other, which is nearly two months.
Speaker 3: That's true, and there's sex. It does us.
Speaker 1: They're sexing twice a sesh, So do you do the math.
Speaker 1: That's a lot of sex. So have only orgasm once.
Speaker 1: So's she's she's faking her orgasms and now she's spaking
Speaker 1: the number two.
Speaker 3: So when they have sex, twice.
Speaker 1: She's like, just once out of the two, but it's really.
Speaker 2: Nune No, okay, like now and now's the time to
Speaker 2: provide feedback. I think there's no better time than the present.
Speaker 1: So what do you say, Laura?
Speaker 2: I think the problem is is that if you appear
Speaker 2: too over enthusiastic and you reward bad behavior with lots
Speaker 2: of moaning, then they think they're doing a good job, right,
Speaker 2: And I know that no one wants to. You want
Speaker 2: to kind of boost their ego, and you want to
Speaker 2: show that you're enthusiastic about the sex and you want
Speaker 2: them to feel good. So sometimes we over commit to
Speaker 2: making them feel good, but also it commit your performance. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like and you could have gone to night up. Maybe
Speaker 2: you were a fucking fantastic actress. But all you're doing
Speaker 2: is rewarding. And I shouldn't say bad behavior because he's
Speaker 2: not doing anything bad, but like, rewarding not great technique,
Speaker 2: and therefore he's going to continue to do it. I
Speaker 2: think that you can't delay the conversation because the longer
Speaker 2: you leave it, the harder the feedback is going to be,
Speaker 2: because not only will he be a little bit hurt
Speaker 2: by it, but he will also be like, Wow, you
Speaker 2: felt like this for so long and you haven't told
Speaker 2: me anything. I actually think now is probably the perfect time,
Speaker 2: and it doesn't have to be a big deal. It
Speaker 2: doesn't have to be like you have not made me
Speaker 2: come and I have been faking it. You can literally
Speaker 2: just say, do you know what? I don't always come
Speaker 2: when we have sex, because I find it really hard
Speaker 2: to come from penetrative sex. I would really love it
Speaker 2: if you would go down on me first, or if
Speaker 2: you want to get me off, go down on me
Speaker 2: for ten minutes or whatever, finger me, whatever you want.
Speaker 2: Every time I say finger me, it's like it makes
Speaker 2: my skin crawl a little bit. Finger blast me, whatever
Speaker 2: it takes, whatever means is that no, that's something diarent.
Speaker 2: But I genuinely think the longer you leave it any
Speaker 2: of these sorts of conversations, the harder they are to have.
Speaker 2: And the next time he asks you know how many
Speaker 2: times did you come? That's literally the perfect time to
Speaker 2: say I didn't. I didn't come. Actually, you know, I
Speaker 2: really enjoyed it. It felt so good. But for me,
Speaker 2: I need more than just sticking it in and going
Speaker 2: jack hammut to town.
Speaker 1: Well, what you can say too is like, because you
Speaker 1: don't want to say I faked it the whole time, right,
Speaker 1: what you can say is.
Speaker 3: I would advise again saying that you've been faking it.
Speaker 1: Yeay, you said, But he has to understand because otherwise
Speaker 1: he thinks what he's done is right and he'll keep
Speaker 1: doing it. So what you have to say is it
Speaker 1: feels really good, but it was like, explain it because
Speaker 1: he doesn't know. He's a guy, he's got no idea.
Speaker 2: Just be like, some of them do have an idea,
Speaker 2: let's ever get them all into the same Evidently.
Speaker 1: This guy has no idea. You just say, oh, it's
Speaker 1: like calf an orgasm. You know, feel so good, it's
Speaker 1: so great, but it's not getting me all the way there.
Speaker 1: And I know that this would be like this is good,
Speaker 1: but this could be explosive, and I think that's what
Speaker 1: you say. So you're like, you know, what's been happening
Speaker 1: is great, which is not a lie. It's great, But
Speaker 1: make him understand how much better it is for you
Speaker 1: when he does something else to get you to your orgasm,
Speaker 1: and when he he will feel and see your response
Speaker 1: and how different it is when he's actually making your
Speaker 1: ORGANTHM he's going to understand pretty quickly that there is
Speaker 1: a difference.
Speaker 2: It's always good to provide feedback like a shit sandwich, though,
Speaker 2: Like it's always good to say, I really like it
Speaker 2: when you do this, but I would love it when
Speaker 2: you do this.
Speaker 3: Oh, and this also feels great, like sandwich.
Speaker 2: That feedback in between two compliments around the things that
Speaker 2: you do like, and then hopefully that will indicate to
Speaker 2: him the things that he should be doing more of.
Speaker 3: And if he's doing.
Speaker 2: Something that you really hate, like let's say he is
Speaker 2: just jackhammering you to town, or he's too rough, or
Speaker 2: he spends too much time trying to like, you know,
Speaker 2: literally rub your clip off, whatever it is. There's nothing
Speaker 2: wrong with explaining the one or two things that you
Speaker 2: don't like either, like you know, I don't know. It
Speaker 2: doesn't feel good when you do this, but it feels
Speaker 2: really good when you do this. You can give negative
Speaker 2: feedback and positive feedback kind of sandwich together, and when he.
Speaker 1: Does what you like and you have that great orgasm,
Speaker 1: give the performance of your life get an Oscar woman,
Speaker 1: because that is when he's gonna.
Speaker 3: Be like, fuck, yeah, I'm doing that every single time.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, all right, Well, I feel like, I mean, god,
Speaker 2: we've had some cars and lows on this episode.
Speaker 3: I was aware it was a different episode. I loved
Speaker 3: it all right. Well, that is it from us, guys.
Speaker 2: If you haven't got yourself a copy of We Love Love,
Speaker 2: you can jump on to the website. It is Life
Speaker 2: uncutpodcast dot com dot au. You can also get tickets
Speaker 2: to live show. There is still a few left in Sydney.
Speaker 2: It's at the City Sidle Hall next Wednesday night. It's
Speaker 2: going to be so much fucking fun and we have
Speaker 2: some really really exciting guest lined up.
Speaker 1: I dreamt last night Laura that we I mean, we
Speaker 1: have a great performer at the start of the show.
Speaker 1: I'm not a surprise, a surprise, I'll tell you about it.
Speaker 1: But I dreamt that they didn't turn up. That's how
Speaker 1: much I'm thinking about it. But I was like, they
Speaker 1: didn't turn that they're gonna turn up. I mean, the
Speaker 1: guys they're coming.
Speaker 3: But that's what I dreamt.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh my god, I can't believe
Speaker 1: they're not coming.
Speaker 3: But they are coming.
Speaker 2: If they don't come, I will just get nude on
Speaker 2: stage and do a strip show and then that will
Speaker 2: be great. As well, So either way to admin that
Speaker 2: is going to keep your questions coming into life. Fun
Speaker 2: cut podcast, Ask gun Cut Also if you have any aftermasks,
Speaker 2: so the follow ups the resolutions of any of the
Speaker 2: ask gun cuts keep.
Speaker 1: Them coming in and don't forget So Mum's Dad, Tell
Speaker 1: you dog, tell your friends, and share a love because.
Speaker 3: We love
Speaker 2: Eight