WEBVTT - ASK UNCUT - Has true crime gone too far? 0:00:00.880 --> 0:00:05.280 Life Uncut podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:09.080 Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:11.920 pay our respect to their elders past and present and 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:15.360 extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait islander 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:16.120 peoples today. 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:19.560 This episode is recorded on Gadigal Land of the Aurora Nation. 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:41.920 Hey guys, and I'll welcome back to another episode of 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:42.720 Lifetime Card. 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:46.320 I'm Brittany and I'm Laura, and my holy dooly, it 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:48.559 has been a big week so far. 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:50.839 I thought you were going to. 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:52.199 Say a big morning, but yeah, it's been a big 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:55.320 week as well. Okay, book launch Doune and dusted. Book 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:59.160 Launch Press were almost unundusted. Still on the way signed 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:02.360 my wedding papers. I don't know what that even means, 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:04.400 but actually mean one of my best friends is going 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:07.360 to be our celebrant and she brought over all of 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:10.120 the documents and stuff that we needed to sign. And 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:13.720 can I tell you our wedding is five weeks away now, 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:16.960 and we are the most unorganized couple that there has 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:19.120 ever been that's gotten married. You would think we're eloping. 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:20.800 I've been engaged for three and a half years. 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:21.920 I'm not arguing that point. 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:24.360 Whats like, we don't even okay to the point of 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:28.039 so we're getting married. It's an outdoor wedding. We only 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:30.280 just discovered that we don't actually have chairs for anyone 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:32.560 to sit on at the reception, so we've just had 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:33.560 to hire chairs. 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:37.120 They're coming from three hours away. Because stand up wedding 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:39.119 on your feet. 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:41.839 On your feet, ladies and gentlemen, stand for the bride, 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:43.440 because there's literally no chairs here. 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:45.000 I want to stand innovation. 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:47.520 We've also had some problems with flowers, so we don't 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.160 have any flowers organized yet, but that's also on its way. 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:53.840 And hadn't organized a cake, but I did that this week. 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:57.040 Okay, do you have a venue, yes, and you have 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:57.560 a fiance. 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:00.600 I have a have a ring, not yet. I still 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.320 haven't got my ring, but that's okay. I'm making my ring. 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:04.120 Do you know what. 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:06.320 I've always been the kind of person that's like very 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:09.560 good under pressure. Unless I've got a deadline, I will 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:11.760 work to that deadline. But if you just give me 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.639 an arbitrary date, you know I might not ever get done. 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.000 I'm exactly the same, and that is why this podcast 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:19.400 is always so chaotic because we're like, oh, this has 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:20.760 to be done tomorrow, Okay. 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:21.640 Better do it now. At one am. 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:24.240 Every single Tuesday and Thursday, we're like, fuck that crept. 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:24.600 Up real fast. 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.120 Well, I still have to find a dress for your wedding. 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:29.200 So I keep forgetting that I have to do that, 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:30.359 and I'm going to do that this week. 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:32.280 What about my hens? Which is this weekend? 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:33.200 I'm done? 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:34.399 Oh, I am already. 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:36.480 I have your G string ready, I have your I 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:39.120 have everything ready for you. I have my own dress. 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:40.160 I'm fully clothed. 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:41.960 Am I just wearing a G string to my hens? 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:42.639 Is that what that means? 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:44.760 Yeah? And like those little you know, those nipple covers 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:47.280 that have the like like what's. 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.920 It called some tassels? Yeah, some nipple tassels. I like that. 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:51.680 We're playing a game of charades while you got I'd 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:53.160 like it out there and like tassel them. 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:54.280 In the air. But do you know what I mean? 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:56.440 I know you're making your ring. I'm just gonna say this. 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:58.000 I'm just going to throw this out there. My sister's 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:02.720 getting married in two weeks, yikes. And Laura made her 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:05.519 wedding bantu and it is so beautiful. 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.040 We just turned it this week, Tony May. If anyone 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.440 wants an engagement ring, I know someone who can sort 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:10.760 you out. 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:12.840 It's really, really beautiful. So I had a little moment 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:14.200 when you gave it her. I was like, oh my god, 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:16.720 everyone here around me, in my whole entire life's getting married. 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:19.160 I love this. 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:20.400 We love that. 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:21.680 And then do you know what I. 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:25.040 Said to Laura, I'm really going rogue here. Laura has 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.960 these like this is not sponsored by Tony May, but Laura's. 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:28.920 Showing it could be. It could be. 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.880 Laura's showing me all these beautiful new engagement rings that 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:34.120 are coming in. And I said, do you think I 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:36.720 could get one of those? Because I really like the ring. 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:38.520 It's beautiful, it's got diamonds, but not wear it on 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:40.600 my engagement ring, just so like I can buy myself 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:41.240 a nice ring. 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:42.840 So I think that's where I'm at. 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:45.680 I think I'm buying myself an engagement ring and just 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:47.920 gonna put on a different finger for starters. It is 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:50.320 a beautiful salt and pepper diamonds, So I think you 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:52.840 can buy yourself an engagement ring, so long as the 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:54.800 stone doesn't look like an eight like. 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.400 So Laura's Hailey Mail's grabbing this printing bikes he self 0:03:57.440 --> 0:03:58.280 engagement ring? 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:06.520 Oh dude, okay, but so long as it's not a 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:09.960 like white diamond princess cut ring, I think you can 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.080 anything else. I'll take the one out of the cart 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:15.320 and wear it on your middle finger. Don't wear it 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:16.080 on your wedding finger. 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:16.640 Then you're fine. 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:16.960 Yeah. 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:19.960 So my question is is it okay? Can we do this? Yes? 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:22.760 Yes, I'll make you an engagement engagement ring so you 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:23.640 can marry yourself. 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:25.520 So I also have a predicament. 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:28.040 I bought a dress to wear to my hen's party, 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:30.440 and like when we're recording this, the hen's party is 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:33.360 like three days away. I tried it on yesterday and 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:36.760 I'm so confused, Like it has a skin color slip 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.680 inside it, but nobody's skin color is the color of 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:43.560 this slip, Like it is bright fluorescent yellow inside, and 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:45.719 it makes no sense. So I'm quite upset because I 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:47.320 spent way too much money on it, and now I 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:48.479 have to send it back and I have nothing. 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:51.640 I do have a sexy dress. If you want to 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.359 try it on, it's for yourself, I mean, yeah, but 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:55.520 I haven't worn it, So if you want to be 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:56.320 the first person wear it. 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:57.960 We can try it on after this. Is it white? 0:04:58.279 --> 0:04:58.400 No? 0:04:58.440 --> 0:04:58.960 Do you want white? 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:02.039 I want white? It's actually black. It to my funeral, 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:04.240 to my dating funeral. Don't you have to wear a 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:06.520 white dear Hens party? Isn't that a thing to do anything? 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.760 It's true? But okay, we'll saw this out after. 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:11.320 We're not gonna have this whole We're not gonna have 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:14.280 a fashion wardrobe conversation live on the podcast. 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:14.960 Do you know what? Okay? 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:18.320 We spoke about something on our Tuesday episode. Obviously, we 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:20.880 spoke a lot about the book and about all of 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:24.479 our personal trauma and tragedies, but we also spoke about 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:26.919 something at the beginning of the episode which I have been. 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.400 Like sitting on all week really wanting to unpack. 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:32.080 We talked about Dama and the new series It's on 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.960 Netflix that follows Jeffrey Dahmer, the serial killer, and just 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:39.160 the complete, unbelievable atrocities that he committed. 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:40.279 Now, I've only. 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:43.120 Watched two episodes of the series, and I have checked 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:46.479 the fuck out because it is truly too much for me, 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:48.520 and I know that there are other people who probably 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:50.720 feel the same as me. They've watched a bit and 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:53.839 they just can't stomach it. And then there's also people 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:56.840 like Britt who have kind of gone gung ho when 0:05:56.880 --> 0:05:59.039 they're at the end of the series already. But it 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:02.880 is one at actually it is now Netflix's most downloaded series. 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:05.880 It is akin to Stranger Things, which we know was 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:09.640 like an absolute blockbuster behemoth. But I have a few 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:11.280 feelings and I want to unpack it. So the question 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:14.400 that we raised on Tuesday's episode was whether or not 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:19.240 the victims families Dama's Victims Families had received anything from 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.880 this movie series or TV series, because obviously being like 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:25.799 one of the most downloaded Netflix series of all time 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:28.560 means that it's also made the most money out of 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:31.680 all the Netflix series of all time. And we have 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:33.680 done a bit of a deep dive in investigation. I 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:36.200 know that Britta and I we had a very heated conversation. 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:39.720 We have actually been we find at this We've been 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:41.279 having it well, we've been no you know what it 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.320 wasn't We've been having a great debate, a discussion, a 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:46.760 very like Sometimes it was heated. Sometimes we had a 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:50.240 few variations in opinions, but overall we got to the 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:52.480 same place. It is not insane that this is made 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:55.040 number one in the world because we as a society 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:58.080 and a generation, we all know we have a huge 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:01.320 obsession with true crime, and it doesn't matter what platform. 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.240 We know, crime books, top sellers, number one podcasts in 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:06.400 the world are true crime. Number one shows in the 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.080 world true crime. But it's insane that this can go 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:10.960 number one in Netflix and make the most money ever 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.600 and not a dime goes to the family. 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:15.720 Yeah, so we did a bit of a deep dive, 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:17.560 and you know, we asked the question and then we 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:18.840 kind of sat there and we're like, we don't know 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:20.200 the answer to that, so we'll get back to you. 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:22.520 So there have been quite a few articles that have 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:24.640 come out in the last couple of days which are 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:27.880 from the victim's families, and the answer to that is 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.480 is that no nobody has received any money off the 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:32.720 back of the Netflix series. And there was one really 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:35.960 interesting article that I came across, and the woman who's 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:39.239 been interviewed is readA Isabel. She's the sister to Errol Lindsay, 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:42.600 who was nineteen years old when he was murdered by Darma. 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:45.320 The reason why her statement is so important, so she 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:48.080 did a victim impact statement when the actual trial was 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:52.480 on and she was understandably unconsolable and out of control. 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:54.880 She actually said, you know, they were trying to argue 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:57.720 that Dama was not in control of his actions, that 0:07:57.760 --> 0:07:59.960 he was out of his mind, crazy as a serial killer, 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.600 and she on the stand lost control and said, you know, 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:05.280 if you want to see what out of control is, 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:07.280 this is what out of control looks like. And she 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.960 was screaming and obviously so so so upset by what 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:14.920 she had to experience. Now the Netflix series has recreated 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:18.000 that moment. They have recreated reader on the stand saying 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:22.040 word for word her victim impact statement. And this article 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.559 that I came across was so interesting because Riata says 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:26.120 she watched this play out. 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:27.480 She watched that episode. 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:31.360 Nobody had ever contacted her from Netflix or from any 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.160 production company to even tell her that Dharma was happening. 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:37.320 So she or she is being represented on screen an 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:40.920 exact replica of herself, wearing the exact clothes. She even said, 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:43.240 if I didn't know that was a movie, I would 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.480 have thought that that was me. But nobody made any 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.319 contact with her to let her know that this was unfolding. 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:51.880 I myself have struggled. 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:53.920 To watch this series, and there are so many reasons 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:57.400 as to why I feel like it's a true Like Traumaupon, 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:01.280 it is an exploitation of victim's life, but this this 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:03.240 kind of adds another layer to that where I'm like, 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:05.200 what is the purpose of this mini series? 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:07.439 Is it purely just for entertainment value? 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.840 There's a level of is this glorifying these serial killers? 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.000 Is that what it's doing? How do we use a 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:18.080 consumer consume the show overall entertainment? Like you said, Laura, 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:21.120 we had this discussion. Entertainment is the purpose? Right for 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:24.000 somebody like me who has I have a very high 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:25.320 interest in true crime. 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:25.960 I always have. 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:28.200 I used to want to be a criminal psychologist. For me, 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:32.120 I'm so intrigued and interested in what is going on 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:34.800 in somebody's brain or what has happened to them in 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:36.800 their life to make them do the things that they do. 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:39.160 The fact that Netflix came out and said, you know, 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.000 we're trying to do this respectfully to the victim's families, 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:45.320 did they Yeah? Is a load of bullshit. Netflix said 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:47.160 they had an intention to do the show with respect 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:50.680 to the families. So Rita's cousin, Eric, has been in 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.400 big support of Rita during this time and also making 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:57.320 public comments about his thoughts. Eric said in response to that, 0:09:57.760 --> 0:09:59.640 So when they say they're doing this with respect to 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.959 the familyamilies or honoring the dignity of the families, no 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:06.160 one contacts them. My cousin wakes up every few months 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:08.559 at this point with a bunch of calls and messages 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:11.520 telling them that they know there is another Dhama show. 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:14.640 It is just cruel. It's like reliving it over and 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:18.600 over again. Nobody was contact about this show. Nobody receives 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.920 any money from this show except for Netflix. So that 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.120 is one hundred percent in my eyes, and I'm going 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:26.520 to think almost every single person that listens to this 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:29.280 that is not respect to the families in my sense. 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:29.960 Just I don't know. 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:31.959 It leaves me a little bit gobsmacked that you could 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:35.160 produce something of this level knowing you're going to create 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:37.959 a revenue stream that is beyond anything Netflix has ever 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:41.120 made by exploiting victims, families and victims, but not giving 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:43.520 a dollar back to the victims, or to a charity 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:45.520 or to anything is a bit mind boggling in this 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:46.040 day and age. 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:47.720 Well, I mean it does kind of then all play 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:50.000 into that this is and when we say entertainment, we 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:52.559 don't mean like entertainment is like watching a comedy. Obviously 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:54.480 nobody is watching this and then feeling good at the 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:56.600 end of it. But we are watching it because we're 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:59.560 so intrigued, and I guess I wanted to unpack like 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.679 why this show made me feel so uncomfortable. And you know, 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:05.199 I love true crime also, I love watching listening to 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:08.320 podcasts like The Teacher's Pet, I love watching documentaries on it. 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.640 But this feels very fucking different. And I think a 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.480 lot of people would agree. And the reason why this 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:17.520 feels so different is because it's like a Hollywood afied 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.760 version of a real story. And when I say that, 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:23.040 what I mean is, yes, it's followed like the true events. 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.640 It's trying to depict things in a very very real way, 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:28.679 almost like a hyper real way. But the addition of 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:32.480 the production value behind it, like the music and the lighting, 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.720 and the kind of the suspense driving nature of it, 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:37.559 like it is something that has you sitting on the 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:40.440 end of your seat, like every single time an episode finishes, 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:42.760 you are hooked and want to know what's the next thing, 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:46.440 And I think it's this blurred line between Hollywood and 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:50.240 true story that's told from the killer's perspective that leaves 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.800 me feeling totally unsettled by the whole production. 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:54.720 But I think it's one of these things. This has 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:58.520 been happening for a long time. It's exposure therapy. Over 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:01.400 the years, we've seen these creations, like we saw Ted 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:04.320 Bundy with zac Efron, which was the same thing, but 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:06.600 I think produced on a bit of a lesser scale. 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:09.679 As time progresses, we get so used to something that 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:11.559 we do crave more. And I think that's why it's 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.120 turned into these I don't even want to say blockbusters, 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:17.680 but it is as a blockbuster, and it's because as 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.480 a consumer, evidently we're wanting more and more. 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:22.280 Yeah, And I guess this was the thing that Britain 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:24.920 and I got into a debate about off microphone earlier. 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:28.400 It's because I feel like this series Dama sets a 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:31.280 real new precedent in how we're viewing true crime, and 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:34.120 I think that the production element of it really kind 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:37.240 of escalates it to a point where it's more around 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:39.880 don't want to say glamorization, because obviously Dama is not 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:43.120 He's not glamorized, but it does humanize him. It shows 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:46.000 so much around like the fights between his parents, around 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:48.160 the trauma that he experienced as a child, and I 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:52.520 think that showing it from his perspective humanizes him more 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.400 than it humanizes the victims. And what comes to mind 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.719 is the second episode where there is a fourteen year 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:00.000 old boy and I don't want to I mean, obviously 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:01.520 I don't want to give away too much of the story, 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:03.280 but like it's also a true story, so you can 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:06.080 find out exactly what happened. But there is a fourteen 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:09.199 year old boy who is his victim, and he wakes 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:12.800 up and he trips over another dead man on the ground, 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.080 and my first thought was, that's a real person, that 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:19.880 is someone's son lying dead on the ground. But for 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.480 the storyline of this series, his story wasn't important enough 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.040 to be told, so he was just a dead body 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:27.160 on the floor. And I guess like looking at it 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:30.600 from that perspective made me feel incredibly uncomfortable. And then 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:32.520 when I think about, you know, there are obviously so 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:35.599 many other Netflix series, there are so many other podcasts. 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:38.000 Teaches pet comes to mind, and that's obviously a true 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:40.320 crime podcast. We talked about recently. It's something that we 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:43.040 were so hooked on, but it felt like the outcome 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:45.359 of that had a purpose, Like it was an incredible 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:49.000 achievement of justice to have Chris Dawson put behind bars. 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:52.520 He is being held accountable for the crimes that he committed, 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.480 Whereas I don't think that there is any purpose to 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:56.880 this except for entertainment. 0:13:57.760 --> 0:13:59.280 I don't know where the line is. I think as 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:02.319 a consumer, this is going to continue to happen because 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:04.280 we're going to get used to this now, so we're 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:05.880 not going to want to go backwards. We're not gonna 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:08.200 want to watch anything that hasn't been as such a 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:10.640 big production. We're gonna want more and more and more. 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:12.880 I don't know where the line is, and I don't 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:14.640 know what we can do to stop it, because people 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:15.800 are still going to want. 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:16.160 To watch it. 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:20.640 The voyeurism has become so extreme, the need for more information. 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:22.680 Not only do we want more information, we want to 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:26.800 watch like in detail the brutality kind of play out. 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:29.360 And I think that the more that we're exposed to it, 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.040 where do we go to next? Like what's the next 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:34.880 big thing? But I feel like we could talk about 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.560 this series for forever, and you know what, I feel like, 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:39.600 so many people are watching it, so many people are 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:40.560 talking about it at the moment. 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:41.520 But let's get. 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:45.320 Into what we do on every Thursday's episode, and that 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:47.680 is answering all of your deep, you're dark and your 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:48.560 burning questions. 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:53.640 Brittany, do you want to hit it with number one? Okay? 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.280 This first question is a bit more of a serious question. 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:59.720 It is I'm mentioning this because we did speak about 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.640 abortion and pregnancy on Tuesday's episode when Laura was talking 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:05.520 about things that she went through in the book. So 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:07.480 this is about abortion. If this is going to be 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.600 triggering for you, tune out of this one. I'm twenty six. 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.040 I've got a beautiful partner and we've been together and 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:16.280 living together for about a year and a half. In February, 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.960 we fell pregnant. I have endometriosis, and he's thirty five 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:22.600 and he's never had a pregnancy scare before, so we 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:26.840 naively thought we would struggle to conceive naturally. We decided 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.920 to medically terminate a pregnancy for a few reasons. It 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.440 was a very hard decision to make, but mainly that 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.640 the initial response to the positive test was that we 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.640 weren't that excited. The termination was really hard. The healthcare 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.080 system really let me down, not to mention how painful 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.640 it was, and I swore I wouldn't go through it 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:48.800 again if we did e before pregnant again. Fast forward 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.800 seven months, I think we are in the same position. 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:55.520 My main question is is it selfish to keep this 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:59.120 pregnancy when only seven months ago I had a termination? 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.520 Is it selfish to keep an unplanned baby? The guilt 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:06.000 that I have is just so strong. Thank you in advance. 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:08.920 This is such a big question. 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:10.840 And I mean, we spoke a little bit about abortion 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:15.040 on Tuesday's episode. My very first thought, the very first 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.640 thing that I want to say, is just because you 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.560 decided seven months ago that you didn't want to have 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:22.880 a baby and you went through with having a termination, 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:25.400 you don't have to be that as a constant. You know, 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.520 you've experienced something that you never experienced before. You never 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.000 had an abortion before, You had no idea how you 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:33.600 were going to respond to that situation. It could have 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.400 been relief, it could have been regret, it could have 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:40.240 been guilt, all of those feelings. That doesn't mean that 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:42.520 just because seven months later you're pregnant again, that you 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.240 have to have an abortion. Your feelings and thoughts could 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:47.720 have changed in that length of time. Your situation could 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:49.720 have changed in that length of time. Your relationship with 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:51.920 your partner could have changed in that length of time. Fuck, 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:53.800 your relationship with yourself. 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:54.560 Could have changed in that time. 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:58.080 You are allowed to do whatever you want to do, 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.120 and you don't have to feel guilt for it. And 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.600 I think something that I touched on on Tuesday, which 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:04.920 I think ties into this and is really important. 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:06.879 The decision that you made. 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:10.760 Seven months ago does not have to be intertwined into 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:14.400 the decision that you make now. And there doesn't need 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:16.800 to be the guilt there, doesn't need to be like 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.520 you're not being punished for that decision. This is not calmer, 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.880 None of those things apply. And I think that sometimes 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:25.560 we can kind of hang on to maybe I deserve this, 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:28.600 Maybe this is my second chance. Sometimes life just works 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:30.280