1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:13,239 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mondonara Bailout. 2 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 2: Us Aboriginal people. Regards of typele you know, relationalism, not 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 2: war making. 4 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 3: It's the best way to have security. Is the best 5 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 3: time to be a black color, especially business. 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 2: So powerful to be deathful original women. 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 3: I am a survivor of the stolen generations. 8 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: I'd like to begin this podcast by acknowledging the traditional 9 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: owners here on the Sunshine Coast where I am today, 10 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: the gubby gubby and cubby cubby people here at beautiful 11 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: cool and Beach, a beautiful part of the world that 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to actually becoming a local here. As 13 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: most people know, I bought a house here on the 14 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: Sunshine Coast. 15 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 4: I can't wait to live here. 16 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: So I'm here on the Sunshine Coast, enjoying life and 17 00:00:55,320 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: work and recording this podcast. I'd also like to extend 18 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: my acknowledgment to traditional owners right across this country from 19 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: wherever this podcast has been listened to. It's always a 20 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 1: pleasure to have your company. And the person that I'm 21 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: yearning to today, deadly fellow that I had the pleasure 22 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: of meeting actually last year, someone that I had heard 23 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: of and heard my dad speak to and also heard 24 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: my dad interview on the radio. And you know, a 25 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: person that I would consider an uncle to me in 26 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: terms of the respect and the relationship that my dad 27 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: had with you. So I just want to say, Uncle 28 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: Bruce Pasco, thank you so much for taking time out 29 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: of your busy life to be on this podcast. 30 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 3: Oh well, it's a pleasure and an honor. 31 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 2: Says that a good week to be talking on radio too, 32 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 2: It sure is. 33 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. I'm a you and Borlong Tasmanian man. 34 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 2: I live on you and Country, very southern end of 35 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 2: you And Country. But I'm traveling up to Melbourne at 36 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 2: the moment and I've stopped. 37 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 3: On the side of the highway of the. 38 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 2: Western edge of Gunnai Country and very happy to have 39 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: been able to talk to community today various parts of 40 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 2: the country. And you know, it's pretty important for us 41 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 2: because we're My community is working. 42 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 3: On the farm. 43 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 2: I've got a little farm on the wall Grass River 44 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 2: in Victoria and that's the part of our un lands 45 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 2: and we employ local u and people on the farm 46 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: who grow our traditional foods. And there's a huge movement 47 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 2: of young Australians, both non Aboriginal and Aboriginal who are 48 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 2: interested in this sustainable and regenerative agriculture. When Europeans ignored 49 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: our history, they are also ignored our agriculture and our plants. 50 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 3: And injured Mother Earth. 51 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 2: You know, the injury to Mother Earth is evident every 52 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 2: time the fish die in the Murray Darling Basin, every 53 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 2: time the coral bleaches and Queensland, every time our soil 54 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,959 Speaker 2: blows away in the Mallley and you know, near. 55 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 3: Birdsville and places like that. 56 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 2: You know, it's because of bad agricultural practice through failure 57 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 2: to acknowledge Aboriginal people's methods. And so we're trying to 58 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 2: do something about that. And I've been talking to people 59 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 2: today from various parts of the country who are involved 60 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 2: in trying to reverse those bad practices, and they're all 61 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 2: Aboriginal people. 62 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 4: How deadly is that? 63 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 2: So thrill for me that Aboriginal people are so involved 64 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 2: in this regenerative movement because we can restore our culture 65 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 2: this way and restore our pride. But also it'll be 66 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: a practical assistance to the communities because instead of being 67 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 2: employed by government to do nothing, will be involved in 68 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 2: growing out traditional foods. You know, it seems that government 69 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 2: love Aboriginal people been unemployed because they train the hell 70 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 2: out of us and give us no job. 71 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know how many blackfellows have got certificates, 72 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: every certificate you can think of Unclera. 73 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the big is driving steamrollers, you know, and 74 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 2: we haven't got a steam roller down here. So a 75 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 2: lot of unemployed people, but they've all got steamroller certificates. 76 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 3: You know. It's ridiculous. 77 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 2: And the government talks about closing gaps and stuff like that, 78 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 2: but really the only way to do it is make 79 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 2: sure that Aboriginal people are part of society, are not 80 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 2: deliberately kept out. 81 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 3: We don't want to be trained for training sakes. 82 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 2: We want a job and if we've need training for 83 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 2: that job, then give it to us. But also make 84 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 2: sure that educational opportunities are available to us when our 85 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: kids are young. Of course they wait until they're unemployed 86 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 2: in thirty five. 87 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,239 Speaker 1: Of course, I think when I go back to hearing 88 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,679 Speaker 1: my dad on radio, it was always always talking about 89 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: self determination. We need to be self determined and self governed. 90 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: And now I can see what he was talking about. 91 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: You know, when when our mob have employment and they 92 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 1: can put food on the table, and they're looking after 93 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 1: their family. That changes the narrative in that family, in 94 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: that community. But they're part of something much bigger than 95 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: just going to work when they're doing stuff that actually 96 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: makes them feel good that they're contributing to society, that 97 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: they're reinvigorating their culture, their connection to country, their health 98 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: and well being. Like I'm just thinking of some of 99 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: the foods that you might harvest. I heard that you've 100 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: got kangaroo grass, which is like a nourishing super food, 101 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: you know, an alternative to wheat. 102 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of those foods that were growing. 103 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:23,799 Speaker 2: You know, we're growing four or five different grasses converting 104 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 2: them all into flour. They're all gluten free. During COVID, 105 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 2: my daughter and her family have to stay on the 106 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 2: farm and my daughter was baking a loaf of bread 107 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 2: every second day from our flour and feeding it to 108 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 2: her kids, my grandkids, and you know, we felt really 109 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 2: good about it. 110 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 3: Not only we were learning. 111 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 2: Our culture, but we were growing up our kids as well. 112 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 2: And it was very important for Australia to learn that 113 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 2: these old grains were chosen and for a reason, because 114 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 2: they're so healthy. 115 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 3: And they weren't chosen by accident. 116 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,359 Speaker 2: They were deliberately chosen by the old people because of 117 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 2: their health giving properties, and they don't need any more 118 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 2: water than the sky delivers. What Mother Earth receives from 119 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 2: farther sky, and. 120 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 3: Our tubers are the same. They're perennials. 121 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 2: So you don't need to plow the land, you don't 122 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 2: need to add extra water, you don't need to put 123 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 2: on fertilizer, you don't need to put on. 124 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 3: Pesticide and herbicide. 125 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 2: So if farmers start growing these, and hopefully a proportion 126 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 2: of those farmers will be our people, then we will 127 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 2: be repairing the earth. One Aboriginal people don't often have 128 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 2: is land, so that was taken away from us. So 129 00:07:55,960 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 2: don't talk about close in the gap. Talk about giving 130 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 2: a bit of land back to blackfellows so we can 131 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 2: become independent. 132 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 4: I think that sounds good. 133 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well that's what Tiger was always on about, 134 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 2: you know, us being independent, and so you know, I 135 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 2: really always enjoyed talking to him because he was a 136 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:23,559 Speaker 2: very positive man. He didn't want to bitch a moment. 137 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 2: He wanted to get on with life, and he wanted 138 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: us all to get on with our lives. And he 139 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 2: was an inspiration to us. 140 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 3: Sure was. 141 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: And I always always go back to when I'm sitting 142 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,839 Speaker 1: here in a studio with a microphone in front of me, thinking, 143 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: I never. 144 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 4: Ever thought that this would be what I do. 145 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: Even though I don't do this for my full time, 146 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: you know, full time job. 147 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 4: This is my passion. 148 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: My passion is about how do we get other abishal 149 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: tait on to people's right, How do we give them 150 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: a voice. How do we kind of amplify their voices 151 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: so that people not only in this country, uncle, We've 152 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: got a global audience now with this podcast. How can 153 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: we share in our culture, our history, our knowledge, our experience, 154 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: our inventions, you know, just share our deadliness with the 155 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: rest of the world. And that's what I enjoy doing 156 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: and speaking to people like yourself to just understand, you know, 157 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: despite being a black fellow, and despite all of the 158 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: odds that are against us, how do we draw from 159 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: our strengths. And that's what my dad really kind of 160 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: pushed with us young people. 161 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 4: You know, eight daughters, you know, the Mole people. 162 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: Went through the fights and went through those struggles for 163 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: us to have what we have today. So how can 164 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: we draw from our strengths and not from our weaknesses, 165 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: and in terms of closing gap, I love the fact 166 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 1: that you mentioned that because I work in an industry 167 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: where you know, everyone's talking. 168 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 4: About closing the gap. 169 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: I always always say to people, and this comes directly 170 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: from my old people, any mayor in Anililla, we're not 171 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 1: all victims, you know. We're owners and runners of country. 172 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 1: We ran an entire country for tens of thousands of 173 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: years without any outside interference, without a need for armies, 174 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: police and prisons, and we never invaded our neighbors. 175 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 4: Uncle, We ran this country. 176 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: We might not have always had peace, but it's not 177 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: about living in peace. It's about how do you have 178 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: a stable, efficient society, stability and efficiency that's going to 179 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 1: last you tens of thousands of years. How do you 180 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: live in harmony and balance with the land, you know, 181 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: And that's what we need to do. That's what we 182 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: need to go back to when you think about the 183 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:42,319 Speaker 1: work that you're doing. 184 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well you had good government. Our people were 185 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 2: wise governors, and I had worked out a really good law, 186 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 2: l Ori, of how people ought to behave in respect 187 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 2: to the earth, not about ourselves, not about the inter 188 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:07,839 Speaker 2: relationships between people necessarily, but about how we related to 189 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 2: the earth, and you know that's why I think that 190 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 2: none average of society misses out on. 191 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 3: So if we can. 192 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 2: Bring back our own culture, respect our own culture, teach 193 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 2: that culture to our kids and support them in their learning, 194 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 2: keep them at school. Don't worry about getting a wide education, 195 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 2: because it's an education, and we could build on top 196 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 2: of that education. 197 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 3: Because you do the wide education, then you do your 198 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 3: law as well. 199 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 2: You twice educated end up with two degrees and they're complementary. 200 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 3: And we can change wide education anyway. You know, we 201 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 3: can make sure that our history is included. 202 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 2: In But if we can do that, we're going to 203 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 2: help the rest of Australia as well stop being such 204 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 2: a racist country. Really hate saying that about my country. 205 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 2: Then it's a Lasst country when Abridge people are killed 206 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,839 Speaker 2: in jail and nobody gives them keys about it, and 207 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 2: that's what it is. 208 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 4: Systemic, systemic racism. 209 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 2: My uncle in New South Wales, glad I s perergically 210 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 2: and wanted to change one word in the national anthem 211 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 2: to get rid of young. You know, we are young 212 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 2: and free. She wanted to get rid of young and 213 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,559 Speaker 2: make it one we are one and free. You know, 214 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 2: just that tiny little change and the National Party went 215 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:36,479 Speaker 2: ap you know, oh, you know that's disrespectful to our ancestors. 216 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 2: How disrespectful is it to our ancestors? Of course we 217 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 2: have to change the minds of those people. 218 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: Of course, what about I saw yesterday there when you're 219 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: thinking about government or parliament, I saw a tweet there 220 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: I think might have been from Lydia Thorpe talking about 221 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 1: the Liberal Party and I think it was one nation. 222 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: Both voted for the Aberginal flag not to be raised 223 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: in Natock week in parliament. They both agreed, like seriously, 224 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,119 Speaker 1: but that's where we're right when you think about politics, 225 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:12,719 Speaker 1: and that's that is. 226 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 5: Look, the rest of Australia's leaving them mum behind, of course, 227 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 5: you know you shouldn't obsess about Pauline Hanson and I 228 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 5: can't remember this guy's name today, the new South Wales parliamentary. 229 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 2: You know, we're leaving them behind their dinosaurs, you know. 230 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 2: Of course, now great great grandkids will be picking up their. 231 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 3: Bones and wonder who they were. You know, who's this 232 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 3: old fossil? 233 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 2: Obviously, because you know, the rest of Australia, young Australia, 234 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 2: I'm sure it will soon be a majority voice in 235 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 2: supporting the Aboriginal people. 236 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 3: And I think times are changing. 237 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 2: So make sure your kids and your grandkids are educated, 238 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 2: because you're don't want to miss the boat. 239 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 3: You know, we've been dispossessed once. We don't want to 240 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 3: be dispossessed twice. 241 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 2: Because we have missed the boat of education and our 242 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 2: kids can't get jobs and things like that, because our 243 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 2: kids will always need education because white trade. 244 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 3: Is not going away. No, that's the society we're living 245 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,719 Speaker 3: in now. This system, in one form or another, will 246 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 3: be here. Let's get on top of it. Let's change it, let's. 247 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 2: Make it out. 248 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: Well, that's a dad you to say. You got to 249 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: learn them whitefallow, learn that white fellow way. Go in there, 250 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: go to those schools, Go and get a good education 251 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: if you want to go to university, or go and 252 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: get a job. But make sure you come back to 253 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: the community and you bring what you learned and you 254 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: bring it back to the community. That's what my dad 255 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: used to say, that you've got to learn both ways, 256 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: both words abrage and the world Murray world. And you've 257 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: got to learn the western world, that white follow world. 258 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: And I always think, uncle, when I talk to everyday people, 259 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: especially the corporates that come and to black cart training. 260 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: We're talking about these two worlds at abersinal people are 261 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: navigating or even co switching right cod switching. We're neighbors 262 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: in the world. Next minute we're talking and white fris 263 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: from the White Fellow world. We're going between these two 264 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: worlds at any given time. 265 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 4: But how do we push the two worlds closer. 266 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: Together so people from both worlds have a good understanding 267 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: of each other. 268 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 4: And that's one of my objectives. 269 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: Like you said, we've got to know that White Fellow 270 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: world right, this Western society that we now live in today. 271 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: Otherwise we're going to get left behind and we're already 272 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: playing catch up. 273 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. 274 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 2: If we don't get on the front foot and get ready, 275 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 2: we'll still be talking about. 276 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 3: Closing the gap one hundred years time. 277 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 4: That'll be. 278 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: That's probably my worst fear is the fact that more 279 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: likely my children will be doing the work that I'm 280 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: doing today. My dad did this work. My grandmother did 281 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: it till she passed away. Annie Lilla, my grandmother's sister, 282 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: my business partner. 283 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 4: She's eighty and she. 284 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: Only just recently Uncle. She said, oh, I'm hanging up 285 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: the boots, my girl. I don't want to be doing 286 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: this work at eighty. I'm thirty seven and I really 287 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: do hope that all Australians, all Australians start to do 288 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: their own research. Just as if you're going to go 289 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: to China on a holiday, you learn about the country, 290 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: You learn about the does that do not, what's polite, 291 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: how to say please and thank you or maybe how 292 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: to order it, you know, a meal in the local 293 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: language as you travel around. That's the kind of research 294 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: that people need to do when engaging with our mob 295 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: when coming into our communities. How do you conduct yourself 296 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: as a visitor because you're on somebody else's country. Whether 297 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: you agree or not, you're a visitor on somebody else's 298 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: country and you should be conducting yourself in that manner. 299 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 3: Yep. 300 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 2: I've just got a new book out called Loving Country, 301 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 2: which is about Aboriginal tourism, you know, the tourist operations 302 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 2: that Aboriginal people have started up in Australia definitely, so 303 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 2: that both Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australians can visit different 304 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 2: parts of the country and go on a tour with 305 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 2: Aboriginal people, so that money goes into that community, but 306 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 2: also learn those stories and do what you're sayence is 307 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 2: be respectful. 308 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 3: Learn what you need to do to be respectful, how 309 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 3: you behave yourself. 310 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 2: On that country so that you're not offending local people 311 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 2: and their ancestors. 312 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 3: And you know, I think that our communities are going 313 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 3: to benefit. 314 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 2: A lot from tourism because there's a huge international audience 315 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 2: for knowledge of Aboriginal culture and life. 316 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,640 Speaker 3: It's not so big in Australia, but it will grow definitely, 317 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 3: and it's going to. 318 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 2: Grow this summer because Australians can't go to Bali anymore. 319 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 2: You know, if they're going to have a holiday, they're 320 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 2: gonna have it in Australia still. 321 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 3: Yep. 322 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 4: That domestic market, yep. 323 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 2: You know, communities can take advantage of this economically, but 324 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 2: also it's a way of controlling the experience and controlling 325 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 2: the behavior of visitors to your land. 326 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 327 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 4: So there's some amazing resources out there. 328 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: You just named your new book, but I actually want 329 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: to now talk about what you're well known for. And 330 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: I know that you've been teaching history in schools. I 331 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: heard from from a long time ago. You've been in 332 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:39,679 Speaker 1: that education space and writing books and exploring our history 333 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: as Aboriginal people in this country, in particular when it 334 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: comes to agriculture. So dark em you black seeds agriculture 335 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: or accident you know, has attracted considerable attention, you know, 336 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: for your discussion around land management practices in Australia, but 337 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 1: prior to colonization, can you talk to our listeners? Will 338 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: share with our listeners how dark em you come about. 339 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 3: Ah, Look, it started in anger, and you know I 340 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 3: had to. 341 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 2: I had to control that because that's what my mother 342 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 2: and grandmother would have insisted on. No, you're getting angry, 343 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 2: you know, you've got to do something positive. But I 344 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 2: did feel angry because when I was I was very 345 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 2: ignorant of my own culture, incredibly ignorant, and I was 346 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 2: directed to. 347 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 3: Get a better understanding of that culture and history by 348 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 3: you know, the same people that I was. 349 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 2: Asking about my family, and I said, well, you know, 350 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 2: you can't just talk about your family, You've got to 351 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 2: talk about all the families and what happened. And that 352 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 2: led me to writing a book about the Contact period 353 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 2: war in Australia and from that I then found out 354 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 2: all this information about what the so called Australian explorers saw. Now, 355 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 2: these explorers are revered, you know, they're more revered than 356 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 2: prime ministers and Donald Bradman. You know, what they saw 357 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 2: was seemed to be the gospel truth. And what many 358 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 2: of them wrote about was Aboriginal people growing, irrigating, harvesting, threshing, 359 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 2: converting grains and tubers into food products, making flour, the 360 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,880 Speaker 2: first people in the world to bake bread sixty five 361 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 2: thousand years ago. And you know, I got angry because 362 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 2: I was thinking, how come I never learned that our 363 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 2: people made bread sixty five thousand years ago? What geography teacher, 364 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 2: what history teacher, what English teacher decided that this was 365 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 2: information an Australian kid, regardless of whether they're white or black, 366 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 2: should be denied. 367 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 3: Who decided that this wasn't interesting? You know? 368 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 2: You know when I did history and geography, I was 369 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 2: learning about white fellows in wool, white fellas, in gold, 370 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 2: white fellas and. 371 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,679 Speaker 3: Wheat white fellows, and government. I didn't learn we were 372 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 3: left out. 373 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: Of it completely right as our original people and ours, 374 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 1: what we did and how we were, you know, managing 375 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: the land was left out. 376 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 3: Of all of that. 377 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, And these are things that aren't just interesting, they're 378 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 2: valuable because we're failing to get enough water to water 379 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 2: these exotic introduced crops now, like bloody cotton and rice 380 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 2: and things like that. I mean when I say rice, 381 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 2: I mean the European, the Asian rice, not our rice, 382 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 2: because our rice grew in our conditions. But we're expending 383 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 2: a lot of water on these exotic crops in Australia 384 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:03,719 Speaker 2: when we had our own crops. 385 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 3: And if those pig headed pioneers had looked around. 386 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 2: To see what our people were actually doing, they would 387 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 2: have seen that we were growing myrnon in one single 388 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 2: field between Melbourne and Adelaide, that the Aboriginal grain belt 389 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 2: was three times as big as the current Australian wheat belt. 390 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 3: All those things which should have been. 391 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 2: Ringing bells in their ears and flashing red lights in 392 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 2: their face saying this is what this country is good at. 393 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 3: These people have been at it for one hundred thousand years. 394 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 3: They know what they're doing. Instead of that they get 395 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 3: the race. 396 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 2: Here to acknowledge our ways, because if they did, they 397 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 2: would have had to have said to themselves the invasion 398 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 2: is illegal. 399 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 4: Of course, of course. 400 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: But when I think about uncle, the fact that we 401 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 1: had agriculture right. I hear it a lot, and I 402 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: only heard it recently. Any Mary an amazing elder and 403 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: academic political scientist. Right, Ani Mary done a session today 404 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: and she alway says, oh, look, you've got these racists. 405 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: I still want to say that Aboriginal people were so 406 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: backwards that you didn't even discover the wheel. 407 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 4: Ani Mary said, there's a logical reason. 408 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 1: Why we didn't discover the wheel. You only need the 409 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: wheel when you have large scale agriculture, because then you 410 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: need to cut that agriculture that produce from one place 411 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,640 Speaker 1: to another place, and then it needs to be sorted, 412 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: it needs to be counted, and that's when writing comes 413 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: into play. 414 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 4: So we did not have writing. 415 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: Writing took off in the Middle East, in China and 416 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: in India those other ancient countries. 417 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 4: The land is so old, it's the driest continent on 418 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 4: the planet. We've lived through two ice ages. 419 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: We knew the land so well that we knew what 420 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: we could grow and what we could sustain, what the 421 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: land could sustain. And I think that's what people don't 422 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: understand is that, you know, if we wanted to have smaller, 423 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: scarle agriculture, then we could. But there were some places 424 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: where we couldn't grow certain things. How can we get 425 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: when you think about a lot of our farmers, I 426 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: see them on the news every now and again, and 427 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 1: I'm always feeling a bit sorry for him. You know, 428 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: you go for these poor fellows, they've had a drought 429 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: for four years and all and all of their you know, 430 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: their cattle or sheep, whatever they've got, you know, don't 431 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 1: look don't look like they've had a feed for a while. 432 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: But how do we get them to realize right that 433 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: whatever they're trying to grow on farm? You know, over 434 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 1: all these years that you've had to go and all 435 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: these generations and the fact that we're still having droughts, 436 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: you know, what are we going to do? How can 437 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: we get them to see, Okay, maybe you need to 438 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: change the way you're doing things. 439 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 2: Well, it's not going to be rocket science. It's going 440 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 2: to be pocket science. Because those fellows are going broke. 441 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 2: You know, they lurched from one drought to another, you know, 442 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 2: one blague on their crop to another, and you know, 443 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 2: because they're the wrong crops in the wrong country. 444 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 4: Of course, you know, I was. 445 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 2: Listening to a fella last year and he said, oh, 446 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 2: I've just plowed me land all these you know, all 447 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 2: the soils blowing away, all the soils blowing up against me. 448 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 3: Fence, and poor fellow me, poor fellow me. And you 449 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 3: know he is. I know where his farm is. It's 450 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 3: on the coast. It is sand. 451 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 2: It's one hundred percent sand. Our people never plowed that. 452 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 2: We grew things in it, but we never expose that 453 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 2: soil to the sun because it blows away, you know, 454 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 2: and it's you know, if you can't, you know, think 455 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 2: through your heart, then think through your pocket. Realize you're 456 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 2: going broken, that you've got to change things. Have a 457 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 2: look around, swallow your pride, look at aboriginal farming practice 458 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 2: and learn. 459 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 3: And you know, people say, oh, you didn't invent the wheel. No, well, 460 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 3: we didn't have a bullock and we didn't have a horse. 461 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 2: Exactly, a cart behind a kangaroo is a very bloody 462 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 2: dangerous thing. 463 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 4: And we didn't enslave our people right. 464 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: Right to do the work for us because we had 465 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: no domestictable animals. And that's really important that people understand 466 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: the history of this country. Then they'll make sense of 467 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: that's why this is. 468 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 2: And we never had unemployment either, because everybody worked and 469 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 2: everybody worked together, you know that. So Thomas Mitchell talked 470 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 2: about the vastness of that plane of Morno that grew 471 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 2: between Melbourne and Adelaide. It's a massive area of land 472 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 2: devoted to that crop, crossed about four language groups. Everybody 473 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 2: had to cooperate in making that that crop. Everybody had 474 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 2: to cop right in weeding it, because that's what people did. 475 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 2: They weeded out the wattle and eucalypse so that they 476 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 2: could the soil could devote its energy. 477 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 3: To our food. 478 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 2: And we worked real hard at our mom in order 479 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,120 Speaker 2: to get this food. You know, we weren't slaves to anyone. 480 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 3: We just dug in, you know, we put in for 481 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 3: our community and that when we loved it. And all 482 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 3: that stopped when our women went out into those pastures. 483 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 2: Of myrnon tubers and orchards and grasses and were shot 484 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 2: because White Fellow said, this is my land. 485 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 3: I think when it stopped. 486 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: And I think that's what people need to understand the impacts, 487 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: the impact of colonialism, the fact that Aboriginal people right 488 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 1: across this country were taken from their lands. The ones 489 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: that survived the invasion, the ones that survived the massacres, 490 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: the ones that survived the poisoning of the water holes, 491 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: the ones that survived the smallpox epidemic. Right, they did 492 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: so much to white bus out and we survived that, 493 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 1: and then they rounded us up and put us onto 494 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: missions and reserves to protect us because we were seen 495 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: as a race that was nearly extinct. That comes from Tyndale, 496 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 1: that Abrasinal language map, that anthropologist Tindale who talked about 497 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: you know, Aboriginal people in the nineteen thirties were nearly extinct, 498 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: so being rounded up and put onto missions and reserves, 499 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: which were no different a reserve in Queensland, like Palm Island, 500 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: like Sherbourg, Warabinda Yarraba, they were no different to a 501 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: concentration camp. 502 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 4: The cruelty, the inhumane treatment, the abuse. 503 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: You know, the fact that they took children from their 504 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: parents and sent young girls like my nan out to 505 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: work as a ten year old, a little black slave, 506 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: a domestic at ten. And this is what people need 507 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: to understand this history of our country and the impacts 508 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: of colonialism and how it's disrupted our culture. 509 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, my own family moved between Adelaide, Melbourne and Lonceston 510 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 2: every three or four years. 511 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 3: They would get up. 512 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 2: And move to one, you know, one of those cities 513 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 2: of one of those districts. 514 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,719 Speaker 3: And you know, I was always wondering why were they 515 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 3: so restless. They weren't restless. They're running away, They're on 516 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 3: the move, the on the move. 517 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know people are still doing that today, 518 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 2: hiding their kids from welfare, still doing it today, you know, 519 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 2: because you know, I know, you know a number of 520 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 2: kids who are living in motel rooms have been taken 521 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 2: away from their parents and they're living in motel rooms. 522 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 3: That's the best the government can do. 523 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 2: You know, thirteen fourteen year old kids living alone in 524 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 2: a motel room. 525 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 3: So it's a repudiation of the whole society. 526 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 2: There are some of our kids that have to be 527 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 2: protected from their own parents, no denying that, but what 528 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 2: motel room? 529 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: Come on, you know, when you think about it, Uncle, 530 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: we're talking about the fact that there was a government 531 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: policy in place, you know, when my mum was little, 532 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: during her kind of generation, you know, where there was 533 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: a policy to actually forcibly remove Abershal children, especially if 534 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: they had European heritage. So my grandfather was an irishman. 535 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: My mum had red hair and freckles, you know, looked 536 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: as Irish as they come. She was a black woman 537 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: from Redfern, from the block. You know, she knew nothing 538 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: about her Irish ancestry because she was raised in an institution, 539 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: the Stolen Generation back then when they took over one 540 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: hundred thousand children. They're removing Aboriginal children at a rate 541 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: that's much higher than they was during those times when 542 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: there was a policy in place. I've just done some 543 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: research around this that fort or sixty percent of the 544 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: Abriginal children in outer home care in New South Wales 545 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: I think sixty are Aboriginal children. That's just New South Wales. 546 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: It's much higher than that. In Western Australia it's ten 547 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: ten Aboriginal children in outer home care. 548 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 4: Compared to one. 549 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 2: Rate is increasing, so the gap isn't closing, it's widening, 550 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 2: you know, And we have to call government to account 551 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 2: for this. But we also have to take some responsibility ourselves, 552 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 2: you know. Of course we have to be independent and 553 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 2: say we're not going to put up with this. We're 554 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 2: not going to do this anymore. We are not going 555 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 2: to play your game, you know. 556 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 3: You know, we're not going to go and stay on 557 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 3: the doll. 558 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 2: So that every time the government changes their mind, we 559 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 2: have to line up in a queue like in a 560 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 2: concentration camp and sign a new for that's a horrible life. 561 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 3: You know, we should demand better and refuse to cooperate. 562 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 2: You know, because our old people were never unemployed. 563 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 3: Our old people were never uneducated, you know, because. 564 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 2: The law insisted that everybody got fed, everybody had an education, 565 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 2: everybody had a house somewhere to live and stayed with 566 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 2: their family and an extended family. You know, we're people 567 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 2: that have several mothers, several fathers, you know, a really 568 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 2: well organized society different. 569 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 3: To this one, but not worse, certainly not worse. No, no, no, 570 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 3: And you know we need to go back and. 571 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 2: Admire those principles and not accept the definition that is 572 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 2: given to us by white authorities. 573 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 3: You know, they like to call us hunters and gatherers. 574 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 3: We did hunt, We did gather. 575 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 2: I still do it all the all the brothers and sisters. 576 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 2: We still go down and get bimbla prawn or fish. 577 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 2: You know, we're still hunting in gathering. 578 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 3: But we also grew. And the reason they don't want 579 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 3: to talk about what. 580 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 2: We grew because that says that we were managing the 581 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 2: land and growing food, and that means that the colony 582 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 2: is illegal. 583 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 3: They don't want to talk about that. 584 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 1: Well, that anthropological definition uncle, you know, that hunter gatherer 585 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: struggling to survive in a halsh cruel world. You know, 586 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: primitive hunter gatherer society has been the anthropological definition for 587 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: how long? And that's up to us now as absoual 588 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: people like yourself and the books that you're publishing and 589 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: the work that you're doing, that we need to take 590 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: back that power of definition, start defining who we are, 591 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 1: where we come from, and what we're all about. 592 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, we need to define ourselves and use our own 593 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 2: words to define ourselves. 594 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:54,479 Speaker 4: Too deadly, nowhere is it all? 595 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: Look, I know that you don't have much time to year, 596 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: but all I want to say really quickly is that 597 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 1: maybe truth telling might be at the heart of all 598 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: of this. If we can come together and acknowledge the 599 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: true history of this country, maybe we can reset that 600 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 1: relationship and start. 601 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 4: From scratch again. 602 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 3: I think, you know, it was very positive in South Africa. 603 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 2: There's still a lot of problems there. But you don't 604 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 2: solve a two hundred year problem in ten years. You 605 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 2: solve a two hundred year problem in two hundred years, 606 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 2: and you know that's how long we've got to wait. 607 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 2: So it's not me, not my daughter, not my grandkids, 608 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 2: all their kids. It's great, great great grannies are going 609 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 2: to have to. 610 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 3: Keep working, keep insisting on on our independence and our 611 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 3: identity and our law. 612 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: Too deadly, And it's a good way to say thank you. 613 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: And I know that you've got to run, but I 614 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 1: just want to say really quickly that it's been an 615 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,320 Speaker 1: absolute pleasure to just have a little bit of time 616 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,839 Speaker 1: to share the work that you're doing and keep going 617 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 1: with all the work that you do. And I can't 618 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 1: wait to see dark Emu the documentary. Thank you Uncle, 619 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: No worries, Happy night, ok week, Well yarn soon. And 620 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: that was the deadly Bruce Pascoe, you know, a member 621 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: of the wather Wrong Aboriginal Cooperative of Southern Australia. An 622 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 1: award winning Australian writer, editor and anthologist. His works have 623 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: been published nationally and internationally and has won several national 624 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: literary competitions. He has combined writing fiction and nonfiction with 625 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: a career as a successful publisher, and has been the 626 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: director of the Australian Studies Project for the Commonwealth Schools Commission. 627 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: He's also worked as a teacher, farmer, fisherman, barman, farm 628 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: fence contractor, lecturer, Aboriginal language researcher, archaeological. 629 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 4: Site worker and editor. 630 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: And Almoso appeared in the SBSTV program First Australians. That's 631 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: a documentary that I think everyone should be watching if 632 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: you haven't already, First Australians and a shout out there 633 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: to SBS for the deadly work that you fellows are doing. 634 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:05,399 Speaker 4: As well. 635 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: His book exploring the History of Aboriginal Agriculture, Dark Emu 636 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:16,279 Speaker 1: Black Seeds Agriculture or Accident, has attracted considerable attention for 637 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: its discussion of land management practices in Australia prior to colonization. 638 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:22,720 Speaker 4: Which we yarned about. 639 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: You know, the work that he's been doing in the 640 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,760 Speaker 1: agriculture space, in farming and revitalizing some of our traditional 641 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: food sources. 642 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:32,240 Speaker 4: You know that we're. 643 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: Nourishing like superfoods and the right plants to be farming 644 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: in the right country. So important to understand the knowledge 645 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: that our old people have passed down over tens of 646 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 1: thousands of years, so much to yarn about, so much 647 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: that this deadly fellow's doing not enough time in the 648 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,760 Speaker 1: day to get him here and to keep talking about 649 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: all of the other things that he's doing and writing. 650 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,400 Speaker 1: But I just want to say really quickly, if you 651 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: haven't read dark Emu Gone by Yourself a copy, get online, 652 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: download it, Listen to the audiobook Young dark em You 653 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:09,320 Speaker 1: for young people, dark em You in the classroom for teachers, 654 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,879 Speaker 1: and then hopefully in twenty twenty one we'll be able 655 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: to see on the big screen dark Emu the documentary. 656 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,280 Speaker 4: On that note, I hope. 657 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,800 Speaker 1: You've enjoyed this yarn with the deadly Uncle Bruce Pasco, 658 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 1: someone that I speak about every single day when I 659 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: deliver cultural education training and when I think about it, 660 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 1: we're trying to share with people who live in this 661 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 1: country and call this place home. We're trying to share 662 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: with you how we lived here, what we did, how 663 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: we did things, and how you can learn from us. 664 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: Dark em You unpack some of those early journals about 665 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,800 Speaker 1: what those first explorers. 666 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 4: Come across when they've seen us. 667 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 1: Those journals have been in the archives for a very 668 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,839 Speaker 1: long time, and it's just interesting that it took someone 669 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,879 Speaker 1: like Uncle Bruce Pasco to go and dig for these 670 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: journals to actually find some of these early recordings and 671 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 1: evidence of how Aboriginal people weren't just wandering around the land. 672 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 1: We weren't primitive uncivilized savages, you know, just hunters and gatherers. 673 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: And like I said, that anthropological definition that's been in 674 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 1: place since time, you know, the first White fellows came 675 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,400 Speaker 1: on the first fleet. We need to take back that 676 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: power of definition, and we need to define who we are. 677 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 4: And where we come from and what our culture is about. 678 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: And I love the fact that dark Emium is just 679 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 1: one of those resources that hopefully not just change your perspective, 680 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 1: but you might have a bit more appreciation for the 681 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,399 Speaker 1: beautiful country that you now call home. So on that note, 682 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: until next time, take care, don't forget to follow Black 683 00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 1: Magic Women podcasts on all social media platforms. Can rate 684 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 1: a review on iTunes, and please feel free to share 685 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 1: the podcast with family and friends.