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Speaker 1: Among great thinkers, the long walk or run is nothing new. Philosophers, artists, novelists,

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Speaker 1: and world leaders have long espoused the value of solitude

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Speaker 1: for working through tricky problems. Award winning investigative journalist Nick

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Speaker 1: mackenzie is no different. Whether he's stuck in a tough

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Speaker 1: patch of writing or trying to figure out his next

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Speaker 1: move in a delicate investigation, running alone often leads to

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Speaker 1: the solution. But Nick doesn't always run alone. In fact,

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Speaker 1: he's turned running into one of his favorite ways to

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Speaker 1: connect more deeply with his contacts, colleagues, and even his sources.

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Speaker 1: My name is doctor amanthe Immer. I'm an organizational psychologist

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Speaker 1: and the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium. And this

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Speaker 1: is how I work, A show about how to help

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Speaker 1: you do your best work. On today is my Favorite

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Speaker 1: Tip episode, we go back to an interview from the

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Speaker 1: past and I pick out my favorite tip from the interview.

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Speaker 1: In today's show, I speak with Nick Mackenzie about the

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Speaker 1: role running plays in his work life.

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Speaker 2: For me, running has been almost a savior in the

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Speaker 2: low part of the day, so I can come in

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Speaker 2: with lots of energy and ideas, get stuck into them

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Speaker 2: and then you might hit a wall either you feel tired,

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Speaker 2: you've got a mental block, and knowing there's a set

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Speaker 2: time for me normally's about two o'clock, I've got my

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Speaker 2: five or seven k run, and it's about freeing the

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Speaker 2: mind of those obstacles, and for whatever reason, as you're

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Speaker 2: running and as the chemicals are kicking in, I can

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Speaker 2: solve problems really well in my mind and bring them

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Speaker 2: back to the office and then get things done. It

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Speaker 2: also helps to, i think, read the bottom for me,

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Speaker 2: rid myself of some of the anxiety that can grow

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Speaker 2: up in the day, or some of the problems that

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Speaker 2: can burden you and leave you less productive. The run

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Speaker 2: almost sort of purges those And only recently have I

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Speaker 2: begun to ask myself, well, why what's the biochemistry behind

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Speaker 2: all that? And of course it's chemicals kicking around, and

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Speaker 2: it's getting away from the computer screen. But yeah, I

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Speaker 2: find running a real source of ideas making and it's

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Speaker 2: calming as well. My job can be stressful. Often during

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Speaker 2: my run I'll have a really intense problem and I'll

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Speaker 2: be working it out as I'm running. Often I'm coming

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Speaker 2: up against say a politician or a powerful person who's

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Speaker 2: coming at me. They might have sued me. They might

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Speaker 2: be attacking me in some other way. They might have

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Speaker 2: stepped up in parliament and had a crack at me

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Speaker 2: under parliamentary privilege. I'm almost mediating a conversation with them

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Speaker 2: or an approach to them as I'm running. This is

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Speaker 2: what I'm going to do. This is how having to

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Speaker 2: deal with this problem. Sometimes it's about, actually, you get

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Speaker 2: your anger out in the run, and I can be

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Speaker 2: almost quality. Sort of it sounds a bit weird, but

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm fighting them in my run, and then

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Speaker 2: I can get out that anger, and then you let

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Speaker 2: it go and you get back to being a professional journalist,

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Speaker 2: leaving those angry personal emotions on the shelf.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any apps or anything that you use

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Speaker 1: to record your thinking on the runs, or do you

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Speaker 1: find that it just sticks in your memory well enough.

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Speaker 2: I sometimes write down just little notes on my phone,

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Speaker 2: because I carry my phone as I run. Sometimes, actually

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Speaker 2: quite often, I'll have my intention to just go for

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Speaker 2: my run. It's out the office and the docklands, around

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Speaker 2: the tan and back. But I'll stop after two k's

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Speaker 2: and make a phone call because it's occurred to me,

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Speaker 2: I've got to this is how I solve this work problem.

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Speaker 2: This person's got the answer, and I'll just stop and

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Speaker 2: I'll be a bit pat. I'm sorry, I've been running,

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Speaker 2: been thinking about this, have a good chat, make a

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Speaker 2: few notes on my phone, start running again. I might

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Speaker 2: do that three times in a run, and it can

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Speaker 2: be really really a really useful way of communicating and

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Speaker 2: you trotting down those ideas so they're recorded. And the

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Speaker 2: other key thing I do is go for runs with people.

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Speaker 2: So if I have a source or someone who's assisting

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Speaker 2: with the story, it's actually a great way, you know,

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Speaker 2: take their suit off, you're or you're sweaty, and you're

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Speaker 2: running ear it's a bonding experience and you know their

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Speaker 2: mind's flowing like your mind. So they're coming up with

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Speaker 2: ideas and thoughts and creative ways of looking at things,

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Speaker 2: and you're discussing discussing them as you run. It's a

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Speaker 2: great way of dropping your guard. It's quite intimate thing

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Speaker 2: going for a run with someone that can be intimate

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Speaker 2: and that you can just share as you run. You're

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Speaker 2: talking and there's people might look at a journalist over

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Speaker 2: a cup of coffee. They bring up the work book

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Speaker 2: and the pens out or jez am I on the record,

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Speaker 2: what's happening that I run. It's more free flowing and

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Speaker 2: you can have a really frank discussion with somebody sort

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Speaker 2: of off the record in this running zone, so that

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Speaker 2: can be really useful as well.

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Speaker 1: If you enjoy this extract of my chat with Nick,

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Speaker 1: you might want to go back and listen to the

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Speaker 1: full interview, which you can find a link to in

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Speaker 1: the show notes. If you're looking for more tips to

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Speaker 1: improve the way that you work, I write a short

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Speaker 1: fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things that I've discovered

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Speaker 1: that helped me work better, ranging from software and gadgets

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Speaker 1: that I'm loving through the interesting research findings. You can

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Speaker 1: sign up for that at Howiwork dot com That's how

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Speaker 1: I Work dot co. Thank you for sharing part of

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Speaker 1: your day with me by listening to How I Work.

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Speaker 1: If you're keen for more tips on how to work better,

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Speaker 1: connect with me via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy

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Speaker 1: to find. Just search for Amanthaimba. How I Work was

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Speaker 1: recorded on the traditional land of the Warrangery people, part

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Speaker 1: of the cour Nation. I am so grateful for being

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Speaker 1: able to work and live on this beautiful land and

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Speaker 1: I want to pay my respects to elders, past, present

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Speaker 1: and emerging. How I work is produced by inventing with

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Speaker 1: production support from Dead Set Studios, and thank you to

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Speaker 1: Martin Nimba who did the audio mix and makes everything

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Speaker 1: sound better than it would have otherwise