1 00:00:10,204 --> 00:00:13,484 Speaker 1: My Heart podcasts here, more Gold one on one point 2 00:00:13,524 --> 00:00:15,204 Speaker 1: seven podcasts. 3 00:00:14,604 --> 00:00:17,724 Speaker 2: Playlists and listen live on the Free iHeart app. 4 00:00:18,564 --> 00:00:22,323 Speaker 1: Jersey and Amanda jam Nation Sinda A Durn, the former 5 00:00:22,364 --> 00:00:25,164 Speaker 1: Prime Minister of New Zealand, was the world's youngest female 6 00:00:25,164 --> 00:00:27,124 Speaker 1: head of government and just the second ever to give 7 00:00:27,124 --> 00:00:29,884 Speaker 1: birth in office. She's got a new book called A 8 00:00:29,924 --> 00:00:32,684 Speaker 1: Different Kind of Power. It's available right now. 9 00:00:32,964 --> 00:00:35,684 Speaker 2: She is just Sinda A Durn. It's good to see you, Hi. 10 00:00:37,004 --> 00:00:37,564 Speaker 3: To talk to you. 11 00:00:37,724 --> 00:00:41,844 Speaker 1: I'm so excited and so thrilled. Are so taken by 12 00:00:41,964 --> 00:00:45,404 Speaker 1: your retelling of your of your life. And the book 13 00:00:45,484 --> 00:00:47,723 Speaker 1: starts with it with something that so many women have 14 00:00:47,724 --> 00:00:52,083 Speaker 1: had to deal with. Work baby, but the drama. You're 15 00:00:52,124 --> 00:00:53,844 Speaker 1: about to find out whether you're going to be Prime 16 00:00:53,844 --> 00:00:57,324 Speaker 1: Minister of New Zealand, and there's a pregnancy test waiting 17 00:00:57,764 --> 00:01:00,324 Speaker 1: to come to fruition on the bench. Those two things 18 00:01:00,324 --> 00:01:02,444 Speaker 1: could not have collided in a more dramatic way for you. 19 00:01:03,844 --> 00:01:08,163 Speaker 3: It's all right. And I remember, Amanda, at the time 20 00:01:08,283 --> 00:01:11,204 Speaker 3: that it happened, I just thought you couldn't write about 21 00:01:11,244 --> 00:01:15,003 Speaker 3: this like this is just too much. 22 00:01:15,284 --> 00:01:18,163 Speaker 1: How did you feel, obviously you wanted to be prime minister? 23 00:01:18,764 --> 00:01:21,884 Speaker 1: You want to be a mum. Did you feel in 24 00:01:21,924 --> 00:01:23,684 Speaker 1: that moment I can make both work? 25 00:01:25,404 --> 00:01:30,924 Speaker 3: No? No, not at all. I mean, look, someone once 26 00:01:30,964 --> 00:01:33,003 Speaker 3: said to me in politics, there's no such thing as 27 00:01:33,004 --> 00:01:36,723 Speaker 3: perfect timing, Like you just can't get everything to line 28 00:01:36,804 --> 00:01:38,684 Speaker 3: up for when it suits you and for when it 29 00:01:38,724 --> 00:01:41,764 Speaker 3: suits life, and for when it suits your family. And 30 00:01:41,924 --> 00:01:45,203 Speaker 3: that statement was never truer than in that moment, you know, 31 00:01:45,284 --> 00:01:47,203 Speaker 3: one of the things I wanted to do. And telling 32 00:01:47,203 --> 00:01:49,844 Speaker 3: this story we share a little bit more about how 33 00:01:49,884 --> 00:01:51,804 Speaker 3: this came to me. Because I always worry that New 34 00:01:51,884 --> 00:01:55,844 Speaker 3: Zealanders when I became Prime Minister into twenty seventeen and 35 00:01:55,884 --> 00:02:00,684 Speaker 3: then twenty eighteen I'm taking maternity leave. I always worried 36 00:02:00,724 --> 00:02:04,564 Speaker 3: that they thought, what were you doing? And by sharing 37 00:02:04,604 --> 00:02:06,724 Speaker 3: this story, I can give a little more context that 38 00:02:07,444 --> 00:02:09,924 Speaker 3: I've been told I would struggle to he baby. I 39 00:02:10,124 --> 00:02:12,124 Speaker 3: wasn't sure it was going to happen for me, and 40 00:02:12,324 --> 00:02:15,204 Speaker 3: I carried a bit of sadness over that, and when 41 00:02:15,244 --> 00:02:17,684 Speaker 3: I was running as leader, I just put it aside 42 00:02:17,724 --> 00:02:20,963 Speaker 3: and decided that I would think about it later. But 43 00:02:21,004 --> 00:02:24,804 Speaker 3: lo and behold, there was no avoiding the subject when 44 00:02:24,844 --> 00:02:29,084 Speaker 3: that happened. When I found out I was pregnant during negotiations. 45 00:02:28,363 --> 00:02:30,764 Speaker 2: And being a prime minister. It's one of those jobs 46 00:02:30,803 --> 00:02:32,603 Speaker 2: i'd imagine where you just don't know what your day 47 00:02:32,803 --> 00:02:34,804 Speaker 2: is going to be like, and particularly with the twenty 48 00:02:34,884 --> 00:02:39,244 Speaker 2: nineteen shooting at the mosque, yeah, your life must have 49 00:02:39,444 --> 00:02:43,004 Speaker 2: just matrix style to slow down at that point. 50 00:02:43,524 --> 00:02:45,883 Speaker 3: It's an interesting way to describe it, because there are 51 00:02:46,004 --> 00:02:51,084 Speaker 3: moments that, amongst the chaos of crisis, do slow down. 52 00:02:51,684 --> 00:02:54,484 Speaker 3: And I have this very distinct memory of, you know, 53 00:02:54,923 --> 00:02:58,523 Speaker 3: during March fifteen, My just my desire as soon as 54 00:02:58,524 --> 00:03:00,524 Speaker 3: I heard about the attack was just to get on 55 00:03:00,564 --> 00:03:03,483 Speaker 3: the ground, to be there. But at that time they 56 00:03:03,524 --> 00:03:06,444 Speaker 3: weren't sure whether or not it was a wider attack, 57 00:03:06,764 --> 00:03:09,684 Speaker 3: whether it was called an ordinated, whether the other people involved, 58 00:03:10,084 --> 00:03:12,364 Speaker 3: whether I was a target. So I was bundled off 59 00:03:12,404 --> 00:03:15,884 Speaker 3: to a police station and kept the effort for some time. 60 00:03:16,363 --> 00:03:21,083 Speaker 3: And when I eventually got closer to where officials were 61 00:03:21,124 --> 00:03:23,203 Speaker 3: to be briefed, as I walked into the office, one 62 00:03:23,204 --> 00:03:25,243 Speaker 3: of my officials said to me, Prime Minister, this will 63 00:03:25,244 --> 00:03:28,724 Speaker 3: define you, and that kind of you know, I remember 64 00:03:28,764 --> 00:03:31,444 Speaker 3: in that moment thinking, I can't think about that, I 65 00:03:31,483 --> 00:03:34,164 Speaker 3: can't think about how people will see me as a 66 00:03:34,204 --> 00:03:36,604 Speaker 3: result of this event, I just have to think about 67 00:03:36,644 --> 00:03:40,644 Speaker 3: how I do my job when people are afraid. 68 00:03:41,124 --> 00:03:44,964 Speaker 1: Your anger is still palpable on the page as to 69 00:03:45,044 --> 00:03:47,964 Speaker 1: what that terrorist was trying to do to your country, 70 00:03:48,324 --> 00:03:52,404 Speaker 1: and in that moment, you chose to just open your 71 00:03:52,524 --> 00:03:55,364 Speaker 1: arms to everybody. You may be a new arrival in 72 00:03:55,363 --> 00:03:57,484 Speaker 1: New Zealand, but you are us. 73 00:03:58,844 --> 00:04:03,164 Speaker 3: And I wonder if you know and sharing that string 74 00:04:03,204 --> 00:04:06,204 Speaker 3: of emotions, you know, finding out what had happened, that 75 00:04:06,284 --> 00:04:09,564 Speaker 3: our community had been targeted, and then so soon after 76 00:04:09,644 --> 00:04:13,004 Speaker 3: having the manifesto and knowing exactly what the intent of 77 00:04:13,044 --> 00:04:17,844 Speaker 3: the attacker was and feeling so angry, and I remember 78 00:04:17,884 --> 00:04:21,604 Speaker 3: the rage, just feeling so much anger about what his 79 00:04:21,964 --> 00:04:26,724 Speaker 3: ambition was, and it was to try and create almost 80 00:04:26,804 --> 00:04:29,644 Speaker 3: a war between our people and the idea that he 81 00:04:29,684 --> 00:04:31,764 Speaker 3: wanted to achieve. That I think New Zealanders as a 82 00:04:31,804 --> 00:04:35,324 Speaker 3: whole just rejected that that we weren't going to be manipulated. 83 00:04:35,404 --> 00:04:38,204 Speaker 3: In fact, we were going to hold closer the community 84 00:04:38,244 --> 00:04:41,363 Speaker 3: he had targeted. So I really credit New Zealanders in 85 00:04:41,404 --> 00:04:42,644 Speaker 3: the midst of for that response. 86 00:04:42,804 --> 00:04:45,484 Speaker 1: Midst of all that you're talking to a school and 87 00:04:45,524 --> 00:04:47,924 Speaker 1: you're trying to and this is a school where some 88 00:04:48,004 --> 00:04:51,724 Speaker 1: people had lot, some children had lost classmates, and one 89 00:04:51,724 --> 00:04:53,684 Speaker 1: little girl. You said, are there any questions? A little 90 00:04:53,684 --> 00:04:56,484 Speaker 1: girl said how are you? And it almost broke yes. 91 00:04:57,404 --> 00:05:00,764 Speaker 3: Oh and I just finished giving this, you know, this 92 00:05:00,884 --> 00:05:03,884 Speaker 3: long speech to these students about how it was okay 93 00:05:03,924 --> 00:05:05,964 Speaker 3: not to be okay. And then that was the question 94 00:05:06,084 --> 00:05:10,084 Speaker 3: she asked me. When you you're a leader, or you're 95 00:05:10,124 --> 00:05:13,324 Speaker 3: in public office, you grapple a lot with how much 96 00:05:14,244 --> 00:05:16,803 Speaker 3: of yourself to put out there, particularly when it's not 97 00:05:16,964 --> 00:05:21,484 Speaker 3: your grief it's other people's grief. Also when you're you know, 98 00:05:21,724 --> 00:05:25,244 Speaker 3: we're all climatized to this idea. I think that too 99 00:05:25,284 --> 00:05:29,244 Speaker 3: much emotion equals weakness. But what March Schaftine taught me 100 00:05:29,324 --> 00:05:34,284 Speaker 3: was that sometimes you actually you can't stop a human response, 101 00:05:34,444 --> 00:05:35,604 Speaker 3: and maybe we shouldn't. 102 00:05:36,004 --> 00:05:38,084 Speaker 2: What's one of the cool things that you miss from 103 00:05:38,364 --> 00:05:41,604 Speaker 2: about being Prime Minister? From the cars to the free 104 00:05:41,684 --> 00:05:44,964 Speaker 2: stationary greenlight code or you know, things like that. 105 00:05:48,564 --> 00:05:51,204 Speaker 3: You know, people, It's going to sound a bit tright, 106 00:05:51,284 --> 00:05:55,563 Speaker 3: but I miss I miss the great people I worked 107 00:05:55,564 --> 00:05:58,324 Speaker 3: with and the great people that you. I mean, you 108 00:05:58,324 --> 00:06:01,204 Speaker 3: could see something on the news and think, wow, look 109 00:06:01,244 --> 00:06:03,243 Speaker 3: at that thing that amazing person is doing. I'd like 110 00:06:03,284 --> 00:06:05,404 Speaker 3: to go and visit that, and you can. But you 111 00:06:05,444 --> 00:06:07,524 Speaker 3: also get to solve problems. I mean, how many times 112 00:06:07,564 --> 00:06:09,724 Speaker 3: you've been irritated by something in your life and they're 113 00:06:09,804 --> 00:06:11,604 Speaker 3: one Actually, you're going to have a chance to do 114 00:06:11,644 --> 00:06:14,604 Speaker 3: something on behalf of people to fix problems. It's an 115 00:06:14,684 --> 00:06:19,564 Speaker 3: immensely privileged job to have. But there are things I 116 00:06:19,604 --> 00:06:23,564 Speaker 3: don't miss as well. Yeah, I don't miss I don't 117 00:06:23,604 --> 00:06:26,324 Speaker 3: miss the weight of it because it is a weight. 118 00:06:26,764 --> 00:06:30,004 Speaker 1: I'm me and you were made a dame, you were knighted, 119 00:06:31,084 --> 00:06:33,284 Speaker 1: My Prince William is an actual sword. Do you feel 120 00:06:33,324 --> 00:06:34,844 Speaker 1: the weight of the sword on your shoulder? 121 00:06:36,604 --> 00:06:39,764 Speaker 3: So this is a really interesting point. I mean, did 122 00:06:39,844 --> 00:06:44,284 Speaker 3: you know they don't use the sword on woman? Ah, 123 00:06:44,404 --> 00:06:47,604 Speaker 3: but they were very kind at Windsor Castle to allow 124 00:06:48,484 --> 00:06:52,044 Speaker 3: a member of Nati Ranana in London to come and 125 00:06:52,044 --> 00:06:54,204 Speaker 3: cloak me. So I had a little piece of home 126 00:06:54,244 --> 00:06:55,524 Speaker 3: at that process. 127 00:06:56,164 --> 00:06:58,324 Speaker 2: So you just can't keep adding stuff to it, though, 128 00:06:58,604 --> 00:07:00,964 Speaker 2: when does it stop? Then someone says I want I 129 00:07:01,044 --> 00:07:03,644 Speaker 2: want this, I want some crazy glasses. It looks like 130 00:07:03,684 --> 00:07:04,404 Speaker 2: Elton John up. 131 00:07:04,764 --> 00:07:07,884 Speaker 3: Well, I think if you're just like if you're saying, 132 00:07:07,884 --> 00:07:09,684 Speaker 3: well this is what we do for one and then 133 00:07:09,724 --> 00:07:11,444 Speaker 3: we'll do this one other thing over here. I think 134 00:07:11,484 --> 00:07:14,604 Speaker 3: it's probably okay. But look, if Elton wants a head 135 00:07:14,644 --> 00:07:15,644 Speaker 3: or approach. 136 00:07:17,524 --> 00:07:19,884 Speaker 2: A man who would want some jewels a man, is 137 00:07:19,924 --> 00:07:23,484 Speaker 2: there a jewels? Because I'm not, can we get some jewels? 138 00:07:23,604 --> 00:07:25,124 Speaker 2: I just send her It's so great to talk to 139 00:07:25,124 --> 00:07:27,524 Speaker 2: you in the flesh. Your book a different kind of 140 00:07:27,564 --> 00:07:30,244 Speaker 2: power as in stores today. To send her a Durne. 141 00:07:30,444 --> 00:07:31,484 Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us. 142 00:07:31,404 --> 00:07:33,804 Speaker 3: Thank you so much, so nice to chat with you. 143 00:07:34,004 --> 00:07:35,804 Speaker 3: Take care and thanks for reading it.