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Speaker 1: I don't entertainment.

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Speaker 2: Put on your dancing shoe.

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Speaker 1: Don't give me your best shot.

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Speaker 3: Everyone's talking about the new Netflix hit Baby Reindeer.

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Speaker 2: I really don't know where it's going to end. I

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Speaker 2: think one of us is going to have to die. Now,

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Speaker 2: you say, this woman's stalking, yeah, like six months? Maybe

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Speaker 2: Why did it take you so long to report it?

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Speaker 1: I think she needs help.

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Speaker 2: She comes to my work really manly hands, haven't you?

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Speaker 1: Chessel Jarline, pleader and gentlemen, this is my stalker.

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Speaker 2: Say hello to Mark.

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Speaker 3: You say that to me, Apologize to me right now.

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Speaker 2: Can't take my mom anywhere you shy, Look, Martha, just

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Speaker 2: go back home.

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Speaker 1: I was sneaky feeling you might be the death of me.

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Speaker 2: Whoa Emma, Emma gill'sie high, Good morning.

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Speaker 1: Hello, Well it's the show everyone is talking about, Baby

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Speaker 1: Reindeer on Netflix or if you've seen it, Baby Reindeer

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Speaker 1: on Netflix, an amazing show that is just taking the

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Speaker 1: Internet by storm at the moment. If you haven't seen it,

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Speaker 1: it's about this comedian. His name is Richard Gad. It's

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Speaker 1: actually he stars in the show. So it was a

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Speaker 1: real life situation that he lived, and he's written this

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Speaker 1: show now, and he plays this comedian called Donnie Dunn.

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Speaker 2: He's a sort of.

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Speaker 1: Failed guy in London trying to make it in the

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Speaker 1: comedy scene, quite a sad character, and he meets this

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Speaker 1: woman Martha by chance. One day. She comes into his

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Speaker 1: pub and she's crying. He feels sorry for her. He

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Speaker 1: gives her a cup of tea, and from there, this

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Speaker 1: obsession kind of blooms for this Martha character, and.

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Speaker 2: She's obsessing over him.

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Speaker 1: Whole obsession with this guy. It's sort of this weird

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Speaker 1: friendship dynamic that then turns very, very sinister, and everyone

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Speaker 1: has just become entranced by this story. But it's taken

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Speaker 1: a bit of a different turn this week or in

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Speaker 1: recent days, of course, Internet sleuths have gotten online. They're

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Speaker 1: trying to find out the real identity of who the

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Speaker 1: actual stalker is, who the real Martha is, and it's

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Speaker 1: prompted the creator of the show to come out and

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Speaker 1: tell everyone to stop. He's like, guys, please stop trying

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Speaker 1: to find out who she is. It's been sorted, that's

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Speaker 1: not what the point of the show is.

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Speaker 2: But he can't dictate that. He can't control that. And

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Speaker 2: it's not only the character of Martha. Without giving too

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Speaker 2: much away about the show, there is another character who

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Speaker 2: is not a good person, and that person works as

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Speaker 2: a comedy writer and producer. And apparently that person's also

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Speaker 2: been identified because the show starts with not this is

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Speaker 2: even based on a real story, it's this is a

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Speaker 2: true story. So you're going to get internet sleuths doing

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Speaker 2: exactly that, trying to identify who those people are.

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Speaker 1: And of course that was going to happen. I think

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Speaker 1: it speaks to that this show maybe didn't know how

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Speaker 1: big it was going to become. It's a Scottish production

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Speaker 1: Netflix show. I mean some Netflix shows go gangbusters without

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Speaker 1: anyone expecting them to, and others, you know, flop. But

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Speaker 1: this has become a global sensation.

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Speaker 2: That's right. And people are saying, where's the compliance from Netflix?

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Speaker 2: How in this modern era they know very well their

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Speaker 2: audience are going to be internet sleuths. This is who

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Speaker 2: their audience is. How could they not? How could they've

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Speaker 2: had meeting after meeting And no one's saying, do we

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Speaker 2: need to control the narrative here? Do we need to

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Speaker 2: change something about the characters so they're not identifiable?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? And so Richard god who created it the character

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Speaker 1: that you've alluded to, the Amanda another sort of producer

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Speaker 1: comedy writer who's been sort of identified but not really.

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Speaker 1: He's been incorrectly identified, and that prompted the great to

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Speaker 1: come out and say, Yeah, people that I love, have

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Speaker 1: worked with and admire, including Sean Foley, who's the name

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Speaker 1: of this comedy producer who's been incorrectly labeled, are unfairly

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Speaker 1: getting caught up in speculation. Please don't speculate on who

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Speaker 1: any of the real life people could be. That's not

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Speaker 1: the point of the show, which has gotten people talking about, well,

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Speaker 1: what is the point of the show then, And I

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Speaker 1: suppose it's this story of an imperfect victim. One of

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Speaker 1: the most fascinating things to me about Baby Reindeer is

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Speaker 1: that you've got this guy Donnie, who is a victim.

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Speaker 1: He is being harassed and stalked and intimidated, but there's

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Speaker 1: this also this strange part of him that is acted

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Speaker 1: to his stalker, that kind of needs his stalker, that

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Speaker 1: feeds off the compliments that she gives him, or the

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Speaker 1: fact that she needs him, And it's this really interesting

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Speaker 1: kind of to and fro of. Normally, I suppose in

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Speaker 1: TV shows we see that really black and white relationship

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Speaker 1: between Okay, stalk are bad victim good. But this really

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Speaker 1: blurs those lines and it makes you really uncomfortable with

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Speaker 1: your Well that's.

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Speaker 2: Along the way. You're going, why is he doing that?

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Speaker 2: And stop stop, and other times you go, yes, he's

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Speaker 2: doing the right thing, but he's not us in that show.

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Speaker 2: He is a flawed character himself. It's some of the

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Speaker 2: best television I've ever seen. It's very uncomfortable. The second

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Speaker 2: last episode where he opens up, it's just I've never

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Speaker 2: seen anything like it.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I challenge anyone to watch it and not

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Speaker 1: feel moved in lots.

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Speaker 2: Of implicated way and hard. It's not an easy watch,

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Speaker 2: but it is extraordinary.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if we're going to see some

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Speaker 1: legal action maybe to come. There are some defamation experts

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Speaker 1: who have sort of weighed in on this and said that,

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Speaker 1: you know, the show doesn't really make people unrecognizable in

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Speaker 1: the ways that it should. So, for example, the fact

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Speaker 1: that it's set in London, there's a lot of the

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Speaker 1: story that unfolds in a pub, and the stalker is

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Speaker 1: an ex lawyer. Apparently all of those things are true,

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Speaker 1: so they're saying, you know, why not set it in

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Speaker 1: Manchester in a library with a doctor who was strucken off.

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Speaker 2: And they also they're using her actual tweets, texts and

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Speaker 2: things to him. People have just put that into search

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Speaker 2: engines and they've traced it to this woman.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean it is a shame if the

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Speaker 1: creators of this show wanted to have a conversation about

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Speaker 1: kind of abuse and what the imperfect victim looks like,

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Speaker 1: that that's been distracted from and we're now, you know,

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Speaker 1: all doing the armchair detective thing, but of.

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Speaker 2: Course we are.

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Speaker 1: It's the most human thing.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Netflix should have protected everybody. You do, that's

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Speaker 2: what you do.

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Speaker 3: A storker once a couple of really yeah too, very scared. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: well there was one when I were many years ago,

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Speaker 3: and she just wouldn't let go, like she just kept

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Speaker 3: under a different name.

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Speaker 2: Did you like it? Little?

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Speaker 3: It was very freaky, very scary. Knew I lived, she

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Speaker 3: knew everything. And then I caught her. I actually caught her,

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Speaker 3: and so she was under a fake name Cassandra, and

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Speaker 3: I found out her. I won't say her real name.

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Speaker 3: Did you go to the police, No, No, I just

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Speaker 3: I caught her by accident. She rang the radio station.

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Speaker 3: I was working out chasing a prize, and for some reason,

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Speaker 3: I was walking through the promotions department. I don't know why.

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Speaker 3: I answered the phone. It was just ringing. I on hello,

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Speaker 3: and she started talking.

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Speaker 2: Did you recognize the voice?

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Speaker 3: Prize? And I just and I went cold. I felt

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Speaker 3: this chill, And then I went Cassandra and then she

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Speaker 3: because I'd got all her address, I got everything about

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Speaker 3: her and then.

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Speaker 2: Was it her voice? She recognized straight away, straight away?

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Speaker 2: So how did she have your phone number?

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Speaker 3: No, she used to ring the radio station. I used

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Speaker 3: to the night show and she'd ring every night.

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Speaker 1: So once she'd been found out, Once she'd been.

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Speaker 3: Found out, never heard from her again. Interested on your

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Speaker 3: address and everything where she lived.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that's really.

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Speaker 2: But it's interesting to the role of police. He goes

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Speaker 2: to the police and they say, what we can't do

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Speaker 2: is until it's violent. We're looking at all of that

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Speaker 2: with these steps against violence against women. We're going to

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Speaker 2: be talking to the Minister for Women too. In the

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Speaker 2: New South Wales they're making a new announcing money for

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Speaker 2: a new initiative. That's a big part of it, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: Oh, the way the police handle it is dreadful and

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure hindsight is twenty twenty, but they

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Speaker 1: must have been really embarrassed when it all sort of

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Speaker 1: came to light. But it is interesting seeing a male

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Speaker 1: victim portrayed in that way as well, seeing him kind

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Speaker 1: of wrestle with the pride of the stalker and his

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Speaker 1: ego and going to the cops and handling it, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've never seen anything like it. So Baby Reindeer on

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Speaker 1: Netflix will highly recommend