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Speaker 1: It's a special Will and Woody podcast Mini.

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Speaker 2: Everyone's really talking about this photo that was posted by

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Speaker 2: this guy called James Robinson who went to a private

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Speaker 2: boys school in Melbourne called Saint Kevin's College, and he

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Speaker 2: posted a photo of his blazer on fire on the

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Speaker 2: ovals of the school and him kissing his partner right

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Speaker 2: in front of it, and effectively all a bit of

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Speaker 2: a show to shine a light on how repressed he

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Speaker 2: was at school in both in his sexuality is identity,

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Speaker 2: and also just to comment on how toxic he thought

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Speaker 2: the culture was while he was at school, and it

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Speaker 2: really has just I think, well for you and I

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Speaker 2: certainly the conversation off here has just been what sort

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Speaker 2: of a place these sorts of schools have, particularly in

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Speaker 2: when they are making kids like this feel so awful

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Speaker 2: about themselves up until much later in life, which is

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Speaker 2: really not what you want any schooling system to do.

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Speaker 1: He says that he remembers being forcibly outed by an

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Speaker 1: older student, bullied for his sexuality, and then left unsupported

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Speaker 1: by teachers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's extraordinary, really extraordinary.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now, look, we've got Kate McCarthey who joins us right now.

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Speaker 2: AFLW players, she plays it and killed up and Kate,

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Speaker 2: you were obviously you knew that you were gay while

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Speaker 2: you were at school. Went to a girls Catholic school,

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Speaker 2: a private or girls Catholic school in Brisbane. You can

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Speaker 2: empathize with this guy, James Robinson.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, first of all, guys, thanks so much for

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Speaker 3: having me and having me to talk about such an

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Speaker 3: important topic I think for young people growing up at

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Speaker 3: the moment. Yeah, So I grew up in Brisbane and

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Speaker 3: went to an all girls Catholic school up there, and

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Speaker 3: I think it's just as soon as a school is

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Speaker 3: associated with religion, there's this real taboo around same sex relationships. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: of course, and kids are I think generally. I'm now

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Speaker 3: a teacher and I sort of see it in life

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Speaker 3: now that kids are pretty pure and kids like tend

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Speaker 3: to to feel a certain way about those sort of things,

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Speaker 3: and when it's taboo and when it's not spoken about,

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Speaker 3: that's automatically like a bit of a red light for kids,

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Speaker 3: and that means it's weird.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And you you don't want to be the one

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Speaker 2: you obviously don't want to be the one who's different

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Speaker 2: to everybody else as well.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, And I was pretty closeted in high school, purely

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Speaker 3: because I didn't really know what would happen. I didn't

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Speaker 3: know myself that well either, wasn't confident enough to sort

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Speaker 3: of come out publicly through high school. But looking back

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Speaker 3: now and realizing just how little it was spoken about,

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Speaker 3: how I think ostracized, I made myself feel for the

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Speaker 3: feelings I had in high school because of how little

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Speaker 3: it was spoken about, and just the way that I

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Speaker 3: think even we knew of teachers that could that lost

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Speaker 3: their jobs because they identified as gay and things like that,

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Speaker 3: and still in school today. If you're I worked in

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Speaker 3: another school in Brisbane and I told the principle I

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Speaker 3: was like, look, I'm gay and that's how I identified.

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Speaker 3: But they said to me, oh, well if like, that's

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Speaker 3: fine and we don't mind at all and we'll support you,

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Speaker 3: and like, however you identify. But if a parent was

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Speaker 3: to find out, or if a child was to find

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Speaker 3: out and have a problem with that, you might actually

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Speaker 3: lose your job. She WHI is because religion is still

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Speaker 3: the only basis that.

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Speaker 2: Was going to asciminate someone on it was and obviously,

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Speaker 2: like you know, we have to remember religion obviously had

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Speaker 2: a huge part in educating people. Back in the day,

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Speaker 2: that was really the only way that people got education,

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Speaker 2: that was why schools were found and funded effectively, was

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Speaker 2: through the church. But now obviously that's that's totally different

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Speaker 2: and we've got to try and change with the times.

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Speaker 2: It's a shocking term of events that that's the reason

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Speaker 2: you can't come out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah can I ask? I know, And it's a sad

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Speaker 1: reality that I do know this. And I went to

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Speaker 1: an all boys high school and you know, and this

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Speaker 1: photographer James Robinson has talked about that homophobic culture and

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Speaker 1: I can remember terms like that's gay or you know,

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Speaker 1: it would be seen as oh, you don't do that,

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Speaker 1: that's gay, and those sort of terms would come out

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Speaker 1: at all boys schools for you with females. Was that

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Speaker 1: sort of language being thrown.

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Speaker 3: Around, Yeah, definitely. I think it's just the way that

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Speaker 3: young people describe things and they don't really understand the

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Speaker 3: reality of what they're saying. But yeah, there is there's

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Speaker 3: always those that negative connotation around being gay or identifying

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Speaker 3: as homosexual or anything like that. And yeah, even just

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Speaker 3: oh that's gay, or even the boys that use like

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Speaker 3: oh you fagot and things like that. That is I

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Speaker 3: think one of the most disgusting.

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Speaker 2: And.

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Speaker 3: It is it's always it's always a negative connotation, and

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Speaker 3: I think the worst thing is the teachers that choose

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Speaker 3: to ignore it. So hearing a student talk like that,

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Speaker 3: and I think when it comes to Saint Kevin's and

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Speaker 3: really prestigious schools down here in Melbourne, and the things

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Speaker 3: that I've heard is it is it's from the teachers

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Speaker 3: that are just looking past it or even sometimes engaging

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Speaker 3: with it. And that's just not good enough. And young

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Speaker 3: people need role models and if they have no positive

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Speaker 3: gay role models in life, then where do they go

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Speaker 3: with that? I mean, you've got the AFLW where there

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Speaker 3: are so many out athletes, and a lot of women's

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Speaker 3: sports where there's so many out athletes, and statistically there

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Speaker 3: has to be men in the AFL that identify as gay.

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Speaker 3: It's pretty much impossible statistically for there to be none.

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Speaker 3: Yet they're still not confident enough to come out because

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Speaker 3: of this inner culture that's in boys schools or boys

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Speaker 3: sports that if you're homosexual, you're weak.

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Speaker 2: Or and you yeah, And we had we had Josh

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Speaker 2: Coavolla on the show the other day Joshcavallo on the

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Speaker 2: show the other day is obviously the only professional male

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Speaker 2: footballer to currently ever come out globally, but that is

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Speaker 2: just outrageous, and he's twenty one and he spoke about

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Speaker 2: exactly that where he wanted to be the first domino

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Speaker 2: to fall to hopefully inspire other people to come out.

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Speaker 2: Final question, just very quickly for you, Kate, do you

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Speaker 2: think there's a place do you think that the role

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Speaker 2: of same sex schools has something to play in the

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Speaker 2: repression of particularly guys being able to come out. Do

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Speaker 2: you think there's a place for same sex schools in

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Speaker 2: the future.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, But I also think within those schools and

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Speaker 3: within every school in Australia, there needs to be some

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Speaker 3: curriculum taught about it. Right. There needs to be even

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Speaker 3: if it's a subtle as I don't know, in questions

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Speaker 3: that you have for English or for maths or for

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Speaker 3: whatever they're the same sex couple brought up like little

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Speaker 3: ways to desensitize young people to those sort of things

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Speaker 3: is really important. And I mean, since this photo's been posted,

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Speaker 3: I've been thinking really long and hard about like what

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Speaker 3: can I do to help change that? And if it

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Speaker 3: is like taking things higher and trying to get some

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Speaker 3: sort of curriculum developed, or looking into constructing waves or

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Speaker 3: lessons for young people to just see that it's okay

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Speaker 3: and it doesn't have to be a big deal made

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Speaker 3: out of it, but just subtle ways to say, hey,

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Speaker 3: however you identify like we love you and you're a

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Speaker 3: fantastic person and this can be a really difficult time.

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Speaker 3: So if you need to talk to people, here's who

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Speaker 3: you can talk about with it.

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Speaker 2: Well, okay, great stuff, mate. Well if you need a

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Speaker 2: hand with that, or you need a voice, you need

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Speaker 2: a microphone for that, then please come back on here.

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Speaker 2: That sounds like a wonderful idea.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us, no worries, nice, Thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: Kate McCarthy, there's and kill the AFLW player now a

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Speaker 2: teacher obviously a kid who struggled with her sexuality while

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Speaker 2: she was at school as well. It's a fascinating conversation, honestly. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I just really hope that there are a lot of

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Speaker 2: kids out there if they are feeling that way, that

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Speaker 2: they do know they're not alone. But that's a very

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Speaker 2: easy thing for me to say as a heterosexual guy.

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Speaker 2: But you and I both went to a same sex school.

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Speaker 2: We've got friends who obviously are now gay who didn't

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Speaker 2: come out while they are at school as well. And

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Speaker 2: you know why. You see why hear more of the

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Speaker 2: voys on the All Show podcast. You know you want

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Speaker 2: to