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Speaker 1: As you've heard, the Prime Minister flew into Alice Springs

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Speaker 1: along with the Chief Minister, announcing alcohol restrictions in an

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Speaker 1: effort to curb some of the issues that the town

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Speaker 1: is experiencing when it comes to crime. We were told

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Speaker 1: this week that it was what the police wanted and

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Speaker 1: the police were at the table when the decision was made.

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Speaker 1: Now joining me on the line is the President of

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police Association, Paul McHugh.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Paul, Good morning Katie, Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time and happy New Year. Paul.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, what impact.

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Speaker 1: Are these alcohol free days going to have in Alice

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Speaker 1: Springs for our police?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think well, they're obviously hoping will be

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Speaker 2: a bit of a circuit breaker, I guess to some

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Speaker 2: of the excessive alcohol floating around the community down there

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Speaker 2: in Central Australia. But ultimately, you know a lot of

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Speaker 2: the crime being committed to access alcohol is by youths

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Speaker 2: and by premises, not takeaway outlets. So I'm you know, certainly,

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Speaker 2: our immediate feedback from some of our members down there

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Speaker 2: is there they're not convinced it will it will change

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Speaker 2: too much in terms of the crime and the break ins.

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Speaker 2: But certainly I guess it will assist in the short term,

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Speaker 2: I guess to reduce some of the flow of alcohol

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Speaker 2: into the community, albeit at the risk of perhaps secondary

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Speaker 2: supply increasing.

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Speaker 1: Of course, Paul, I know that the Northern Territory Chief

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Speaker 1: Minister told us on the show earlier in the week

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Speaker 1: that the police were at the table when this decision

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Speaker 1: was made. Was this a push from the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: Police from your understanding as the president of the association.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, obviously, you know, the situation becomes so dire.

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Speaker 2: I guess, if you can put it that way, it

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Speaker 2: was national news. It was as embarrassing for the NT

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Speaker 2: really to see the town has degenerated to that manner

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Speaker 2: and the amount of crime going on. And so, no

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Speaker 2: doubt police were always at the table, and we know

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Speaker 2: the senior executive down there always you know, talking to

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Speaker 2: the members, talking to government around what's needed. But you know,

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Speaker 2: no doubt there was significant influence nationally around this decision

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Speaker 2: because ultimately the NT government hadn't taken that step despite

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Speaker 2: you know, significant increases in crime rates and you know

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Speaker 2: what we've been seeing on social media and reported in

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Speaker 2: the media in general, so you know, no doubt there

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Speaker 2: was a significant national influence, but of course our police

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Speaker 2: would have been at the table for those discussions.

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Speaker 1: Paul, you and I had spoken before about the Stronger

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Speaker 1: Futures legislation ending and what the impact was going to

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Speaker 1: be as it came to an end. Has this had

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Speaker 1: an impact? I mean, again, we've spoken towards the end

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Speaker 1: of last year about there being an increase in crime,

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Speaker 1: and the stats don't lie at this point.

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Speaker 2: No, they don't. And of course, you know, with those

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Speaker 2: significant increases in statistics around crime and domestic related harm

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Speaker 2: and olcal related harm generally, I mean, it all initially

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Speaker 2: flows onto the police, doesn't it, and austrained resources that

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Speaker 2: are already struggling to keep up and yet alone the

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Speaker 2: other frontline services as well. But certainly from a policing perspective,

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Speaker 2: you know, our members are stretched far beyond what their

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Speaker 2: capabilities are at the moment. They really are struggling to

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Speaker 2: just fill rosters at the moment. And of course we've

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Speaker 2: seen that influx you know, or forty officers late last

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Speaker 2: year into the town and they've done some incredible work

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Speaker 2: and of course you know it's on the record how

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Speaker 2: many people have been arrested and those sorts of outcomes

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Speaker 2: from that, But that's not the long term solution. And

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Speaker 2: I mean what we've got to see here is a

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Speaker 2: far broader lens put on put on this problems. There's

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Speaker 2: only so many places to go around, Katie. And even

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Speaker 2: if the Chief Minister says we want to keep those

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Speaker 2: officers down there, we don't have them sitting around. They've

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Speaker 2: come from other frontline, key areas of our organization across

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Speaker 2: the whole territory. So the impact is being felt across

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Speaker 2: the territory.

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Speaker 1: Top me through that impact and what police officers are

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Speaker 1: saying to you right now.

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Speaker 2: Well, quite simply. I mean it's not uncommon for several

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Speaker 2: of our oices and in stations up in the top

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Speaker 2: end here, for example, to get a phone cars on

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Speaker 2: email saying we need three or four members to get

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Speaker 2: to Alice Springs in two days time. I mean that

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Speaker 2: the planning or the lack of numbers is so evident

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Speaker 2: that we just are really struggling to get any any

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Speaker 2: members to be able to put their hand up to

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Speaker 2: do these additional roles because they simply don't have them.

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Speaker 2: And of course you take four out of Casurina for example,

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Speaker 2: who you know Casurina, Darwin, Palmerston or Catherine or any

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Speaker 2: of these other regions. The impacts immediate, someone else has

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Speaker 2: to pick up that that you know, those those hours

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Speaker 2: that are lost to our springs. So I mean I can't.

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Speaker 2: I could probably talk for hours really about the impact

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Speaker 2: this is having across the police, but yet alone obviously

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Speaker 2: their ability to service the community, which the community really

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Speaker 2: care about. Of course, Paul, talk.

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Speaker 1: Me through how many palis we've got in Alice Springs

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Speaker 1: now and whether there's going to be enough to manage

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Speaker 1: these new restrictions because obviously with these restrictions there are

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Speaker 1: going to be alcohol free days, but there's also going

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Speaker 1: to be a situation where people can only purchase, you know,

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Speaker 1: can only make one purchase per day and various other things.

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Speaker 1: Do we have enough palas in Ola Springs?

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Speaker 2: Well, the short answer that is no, and obviously we need.

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Speaker 2: There's forty one funded PARI positions down there in Alice Springs,

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Speaker 2: and I think at the moment we've got less than

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Speaker 2: twenty available for deployment and twenty in total. So I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, the numbers are well and truly down. That's

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Speaker 2: been the case for some time, so that slack you know,

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Speaker 2: twenty odd positions is being picked up by our constables

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Speaker 2: and above. So that's impacting there immediately in Central Australia.

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Speaker 2: But of course those other requirements now with the introduction

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Speaker 2: of these restrictions, the daily purchasing limits, the on premise BDR,

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Speaker 2: you know who's going to be policing that. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we don't have you know, we don't have all these

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Speaker 2: additional people sitting around. What's the government's plan there? Because ultimately,

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Speaker 2: you know, they brought these restriction restrictions in immediately, and

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Speaker 2: I know the impact has had on our managers down

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Speaker 2: there in our springs Tron and our workout what this means,

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Speaker 2: you know, in the immediate three months ahead, because you know,

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Speaker 2: when you make these changes overnight, this is trouble with

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Speaker 2: a lack of proper planning. You make these changes overnight,

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Speaker 2: it impacts our members on the front line immediately, and

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Speaker 2: now they're running around trying to work out where they're

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Speaker 2: going to get the numbers from.

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Speaker 1: So, Paul, from what you are saying and based on

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Speaker 1: what you know, we're all witnessing ourselves at this point.

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Speaker 1: Despite the fact that the community has been screaming out

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Speaker 1: for months and months about the issues with crime, not

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Speaker 1: only with alcohol but also with youth crime and everything associated.

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Speaker 1: And despite that, it does very much seem as though

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Speaker 1: the announcement that was made earlier in the week by

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Speaker 1: the Prime Minister and the Chief Minister was a snap decision,

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't sound as though there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of planning when it comes to the way in which

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police are going to implement it.

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Speaker 2: No, and there's no I mean, there's no doubt it

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Speaker 2: was a snap decision. I mean, ultimately, there might have

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Speaker 2: been some discussion in the days leading into that decision

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Speaker 2: being made. But of course when you're talking about workforce planning,

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Speaker 2: you're talking about having numbers on the ground to do

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Speaker 2: the job and get alone rostering in people's lives. You know,

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Speaker 2: this has had an immediate impact overnight for our sergeants,

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Speaker 2: our senior sergeants and of course those on the ground

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Speaker 2: doing the shifts about what it means for them, because

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Speaker 2: you know, you've gone overnight from having one one role

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Speaker 2: to another role and other requirements that have been put

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Speaker 2: in by the federal government and now the Northern Territory government.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, not a lot of full planning and this

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Speaker 2: is a result, no doubt of a lack of planning

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Speaker 2: by the NT government.

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Speaker 1: Well, would it have been a wise decision from the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory government to accept some assistance from the Australian

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Speaker 1: Federal Police.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I mean ultimately, you know, we needed forty

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Speaker 2: extra police late last year. We've put them in there.

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Speaker 2: You know, that's ultimately probably a decision for the Commissioner.

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Speaker 2: And you know, we all know how short Allice Springs

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Speaker 2: has been on police for some time, so any assistance

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Speaker 2: would be good assistance. But you know, the practicalities of

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Speaker 2: that and the realities of getting those people there in

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Speaker 2: the short term is very difficult. But you know, this

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Speaker 2: has been a Northern Territory problem for decades. This has

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Speaker 2: been something that we, along with other representative bodies in

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Speaker 2: May of last year, warned would be the outcome had

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Speaker 2: there been some forward planning by the Northern Territory Government

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Speaker 2: on this issue, we may have already had those resources available,

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Speaker 2: but we just simply don't at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Well, I just want to go back to, you know,

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Speaker 1: the potential impacts of what we may see with these

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Speaker 1: restricted alcohol days and restricted access to alcohol, members saying

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Speaker 1: to you that they're concerned that there will be an

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Speaker 1: increase in crime, or that there could be more people

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Speaker 1: sort of trying to break into homes and businesses in

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Speaker 1: an effort to get their hands on alcohol.

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Speaker 2: Look, there's no doubt, I mean that's that's certainly been

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Speaker 2: some of the immediate feedback to us from members on

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Speaker 2: the ground down there. And you know already see every

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Speaker 2: day how many unlawful entries or assaults are taking place.

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Speaker 2: And no doubt with restricted hours, those that are relying

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Speaker 2: upon alcohol, who are addicted to alcohol, will find whatever

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Speaker 2: means they can to try and access it, and sadly

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Speaker 2: that may come at the cost of crime to other

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Speaker 2: members of the community. And of course police are doing

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Speaker 2: all they can and what they've got, but undoubtedly, undoubtedly

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Speaker 2: there is the risk that the crime will increase.

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Speaker 1: Now, Paul, from a policing perspective and from our Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory Police, obviously the announcement that we've seen earlier this

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Speaker 1: week is very much based around alcohol. What are Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory Police officers saying to you that they would like

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Speaker 1: to see at this point, not just in Alice Springs

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Speaker 1: because obviously we're focusing a lot on Alice Springs right now.

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Speaker 1: There's a crisis there, there is no doubt about that.

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Speaker 1: But we've had issues right across the board. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the latest Northern Territory crime statistics tell you that crime

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Speaker 1: is on the rise in some area is and has

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Speaker 1: been for a while. What are member saying to you

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Speaker 1: at the moment that they really.

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Speaker 2: Need Yeah, well, obviously we know it's not just an

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Speaker 2: al Spring centric problem. We know these issues exist in

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Speaker 2: other areas of the territory. We've known that for some time.

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Speaker 2: And certainly it's not just alcohol related. We know specifically

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Speaker 2: a lot of the feedback is around youth and youth crime,

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Speaker 2: and the crime is being committed, you know, in many

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Speaker 2: areas of the territory by youths, and there is a

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Speaker 2: significant problem with that. But of course the family breakdown

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Speaker 2: ultimately where we're seeing us on the street. They don't

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Speaker 2: want to be at home, and you know, the efforts

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Speaker 2: from other agencies, the efforts from other non government organizations

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Speaker 2: have to be at the table to help police. We've

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Speaker 2: only got one thy six hundred if we're lucky. Police

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Speaker 2: in the Northern Territory that is very thin on the

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Speaker 2: ground when we're talking about the social issues we're facing,

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Speaker 2: so certainly from our members perspective, while we know alcohol

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Speaker 2: is one of the most significant factors, it also flows

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Speaker 2: into the amount of youth crime being undertaken at the

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Speaker 2: moment in the territory.

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Speaker 1: Well Police Association President Paul Mchue, we always appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: Thanks very much for having a chat with me today.

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Speaker 2: Good on you. Thanks Katie, thank you