1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Inba. I'm an 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: organizational psychologist, the CEO of Inventium, and I'm obsessed with 5 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: finding ways to optimize my work day. This episode is 6 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: another my Favorite Tip episode. The title's probably pretty self explanatory. 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: It's about my favorite tip from each of the interviews 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: I conduct. I use this format because I sometimes feel 9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: myself as a podcast listener that I just want to 10 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 1: get in, get the most amount of value from an episode, 11 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: and then get out, So in this format I try. 12 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 2: To do just that. 13 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: So my guest today is Rachel Botsman. Rachel is a 14 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: world renowned expert on technology and trust, an author of 15 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: two best selling books. Her first book was called What's 16 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: Mine Is Yours, which was all about collaborative consumption, and 17 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: her second book, Who Can You Trust, Explore is how 18 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: technology is transforming trust and what this means for life, work, 19 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: and how we do business. Rachel is also a lecturer 20 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: at Oxford University and has been recognized as one of 21 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: the most creative people in business by Fast Company and 22 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: as one of the fifty most influential management thinkers in 23 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:16,919 Speaker 1: the world. 24 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 2: Now. 25 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: Rachel also happens to have delivered a couple of TED 26 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: talks that have been viewed by literally millions of people. 27 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: And I shared the stage with Rachel at a few 28 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: events recently, and I think that she is such a 29 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: superb presenter. So in this excerpt, I ask Rachel all 30 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: about how she goes about preparing for a talk. 31 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 3: Over to Rachel, so I think the main I can't 32 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 3: watch early speeches like it's quite for me. 33 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 4: I can see how clumsy they are. 34 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 3: And in terms of preparation, I've found that you can 35 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 3: speak to the event organizer and with Augerish, they'll tell 36 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 3: you the number of people that's going to be in 37 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 3: the room, and they'll tell you what the room's like, 38 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 3: and they'll tell. 39 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 4: You what they want you to talk about. 40 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 3: But then I always know if I'm talking to the 41 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 3: right person, because I say, well, why do you really 42 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 3: want me there, and why have you put me in 43 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 3: this particular slot, and how do you want your audience 44 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 3: to feel? And this was a really new question that 45 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 3: I started asking. And if they said I don't really know, 46 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 3: then you're not speaking to the right person. You're not 47 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 3: speaking to the person that said we should have Rachel here, 48 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 3: and so insisting that you have that briefing with that 49 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 3: person is really important because otherwis you're going in dark. 50 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 3: So that's been really key, is really using briefings in 51 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 3: the right kind of way. The fearing question is really 52 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 3: interesting because people can say, well, I'll They'll often say 53 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 3: I want you to talk about trust in the digital 54 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,239 Speaker 3: aid whatever that means. If you say how do you 55 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 3: want people to feel, they're then really thinking about the 56 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 3: state the audience. 57 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 4: So they'll say. 58 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 3: Some people say I want them to for challenged or 59 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 3: I want them to for inspired. They're two really different speeches, 60 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 3: and there you get your guidance on tone and content 61 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 3: and delivery. So that's been really key, is the briefing. 62 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 3: I'll then put something together so I kind of have this. 63 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 3: It might be worth describing actually because people say, well, 64 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 3: how do you put speeches together? And I found so 65 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 3: I write blocks around particular examples and stories. So Facebook's 66 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 3: a really good example. A lot of you want me 67 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 3: to talk about Facebook because of Cambridge Analytica, And so 68 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 3: I'll have speaking points in a Google doc and then 69 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 3: every time I think of a new point or it 70 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 3: changes on stage. 71 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 4: I edit that in the Google. 72 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 3: Doc, and then I have a slide library that is 73 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 3: like if you saw the organization, it's so anal like 74 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 3: it's just it's quite I actually it's quite beautiful in 75 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 3: terms of information design, not to I didn't do it so, 76 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 3: but it makes it so easy that I. 77 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 4: Can look at it. And I think it comes from writing, is. 78 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 3: That you're literally, oh, pull that story, and I'll pull 79 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 3: that story. 80 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 2: So how's that organized? That slide file? Can can you 81 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 2: kind a future of that? 82 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 3: So it's on drop Box practically, and like the highest folder. 83 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 3: So my previous work was all called sharing, so that's 84 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 3: all in one thing. 85 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 4: And then the new work's called Trust. 86 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 3: And then you go in and it will have like 87 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 3: core concepts, and then you go into core concepts and 88 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 3: it will have like core things that I've written about 89 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 3: that sort of my ideas, so like trust leaps being 90 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 3: one of them, or risk propensity or whatever it is, 91 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 3: trust evolution. And then you go into that folder and 92 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 3: it's got all the slides and stories attached to that concept. 93 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 3: Another folder will have other people's quotes, So these are 94 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 3: other people that I find interesting that have spoken about 95 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 3: vulnerability or trust or risk. Another folder will be all 96 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 3: organized by company. Example, so Uber will have a folder, 97 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 3: Facebook will half a folder, EV and B will have 98 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 3: a folder. 99 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 4: This is what I mean. 100 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 3: And then so and things can live in two places, 101 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 3: but only two places. That's another rule because otherwise you 102 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 3: end up with too much duplication. And then I have 103 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 3: a really important folder which is evolving ideas. And these 104 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 3: are things that really, as I'm saying, this material being tested. 105 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 3: So this is these ideas I'm testing on the stage 106 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 3: that I know are not right material ready to be designed. 107 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 3: And this is when i've I know it's working. So 108 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 3: Jerry Seinfeld describes. 109 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 4: It as fishing. 110 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 3: So as a comedian, you fish and you feel when 111 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 3: you've got a bite, and the work that you do 112 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 3: on stage is turn that bite into actually catching the fish. 113 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 3: And then for me, because slides and stories are so important, 114 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 3: I then can get to the stage of I know 115 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 3: how this is visualized. 116 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,239 Speaker 4: I know not all loving this is great. 117 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 3: So there's a real process behind it. So it makes 118 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 3: it really easy because and I have a rule where 119 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 3: I always test something new in a speech, always, But 120 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 3: if you're testing more than twenty percent, it's not going 121 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 3: to go great. So when organizers say I want something 122 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 3: completely new, I'm like, you don't like this has taking years, 123 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 3: Like it takes about ten speeches to get one point, 124 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 3: like to know how to land it. So this is 125 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 3: like one thing I say to people when they're giving speeches, like, 126 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 3: I'm like, so you think you're going to stand up 127 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 3: there and a lot of people just read the speech 128 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 3: in their head as well, they won't even read it 129 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 3: out loud, and you think it's going to come out 130 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 3: like a ted talk, like with all you respect, Like 131 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,559 Speaker 3: this is ten thousand hours of practice, right, it's really 132 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 3: getting to a place where you can have no notes 133 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 3: because the stories it's in you, The points are in you. 134 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 4: So it's a long winter. 135 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 3: Way of they saying, so I'll put something together and 136 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 3: then I won't think about it, and then I'll come 137 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 3: back to it, and then you have to send it 138 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 3: usually in a couple of days in advance, which is 139 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 3: silly exercise because then on the way there you're really 140 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 3: refining the points and so and then I get there 141 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 3: and I'm usually can to add a slide or move 142 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 3: a slide, but yeah, definitely. 143 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 2: How do you translate what the organizer will say about 144 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 2: I want people feeling this way with picking out the 145 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 2: points and the slides, Like in your system, have you 146 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: got emotion tags as well? 147 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 3: That's a really good question. No, I don't have emotion tags. 148 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 3: But so last week I was with one of the 149 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 3: banks that's in the Royal Commission and it was a 150 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 3: really tough speech because you're talking about trust in a 151 00:07:56,040 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 3: company where trust is in crisis. So you look at 152 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 3: some of the stories and you're like, I can't use 153 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 3: that because it's funny, or I can't you know, it 154 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 3: actually takes material off the table, which it can be 155 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 3: quite helpful. And the other strange thing you find. I mean, 156 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 3: it's just like writing music, right. You could open with 157 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 3: this story and then finish this story, and then in 158 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 3: another speech you flip those things so your closes you're 159 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 3: opening and they will feel completely different. The bookmarking is key, 160 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 3: so knowing how you're going to open and knowing how 161 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 3: you're going to close. And I you know, I've been 162 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 3: in audiences where people Simon Sinik's a great example where 163 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 3: they're like, I've seen him open like that five times, 164 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 3: like it's a criticism, and I'm like, because he knows 165 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 3: exactly where to take the audience from that point. It's 166 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 3: like he's opening melody and he's grounding himself on the stage, 167 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 3: and you will always go somewhere quite different because he's 168 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 3: listening and he's eating off what's going on in the room. 169 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 3: So I think the number of opening stories you can 170 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 3: have is quite limited. But where you go from that, 171 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 3: that's the blank canvas. 172 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: Hello, it's me again. 173 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 2: How cool is that? 174 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: I just love the level of detail and organization that 175 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 1: goes into how Rachel thinks about presentations. 176 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 4: And I certainly know a lot. 177 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: Of people who speak for a living, but I've never 178 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,079 Speaker 1: heard anyone have such rigor around their process. 179 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 2: I personally love it. 180 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: So if making presentations is something you do often or 181 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: even occasionally, I hope that there was some useful stuff 182 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: in this little exitt of my chat with Rachel. 183 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 2: So that is it for today. 184 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: If you like this exert, you might want to listen 185 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: to my full chat with Rachel, which I'll link to 186 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: in the show notes. And if you're enjoying how I work, 187 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: maybe just hit the pause button now and spend five 188 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: seconds or maybe even less to leave a review an 189 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast, maybe leave 190 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: a star rating or write some kind words. Either way, 191 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: it brings a huge smile to my face whenever listeners 192 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,839 Speaker 1: do that, and thank you to all the wonderful people 193 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: who have left five star reviews and written lovely words. 194 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: It really does make my day. So that is it 195 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 1: for today and I'll see you next time.