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Speaker 1: You are listening to Mix one oh four point nine

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Speaker 1: three sixty. Now. The issue with youth crime has been

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Speaker 1: on the agenda for quite some time in the Northern Territory,

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Speaker 1: with the Northern Territory government last month announcing a crackdown.

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Speaker 1: The changes include what the government has called tougher than

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Speaker 1: ever consequences for breach of bail. Police will also be

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Speaker 1: given more powers to tackle youth crime through expanded options

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Speaker 1: to apply electronic monitoring. The package includes legislative and non

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Speaker 1: legislative measures to reduce youth crime through targeting repeat offenders

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Speaker 1: in the Northern Territory. When making the announcement, the government

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Speaker 1: also said there are practical consequences to these policies and

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Speaker 1: that is why the government will be allocating five million

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Speaker 1: dollars for additional new youth remand infrastructure, allowing for an

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Speaker 1: increase of young offenders on Remand Now, I think it's

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Speaker 1: safe to say that we've spoken extensively about the legislation

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Speaker 1: and calls this week for Parliament to be recalled to

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Speaker 1: get the legislation through. But this morning I want to

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Speaker 1: focus on some of the other things that are changing

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Speaker 1: and happening, namely in the area of Territory Families. And

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Speaker 1: joining me in the studio is the Minister for Territory Families,

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Speaker 1: Kate Warden.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Minister, Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Thanks very much for your time this morning. Now, firstly,

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Speaker 1: we know that Northern Territory Police have beefed up resources

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Speaker 1: over the past few weeks in Casarina, Karama and Alice

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Speaker 1: Springs to deal with increasing rates of youth crime. Yesterday

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Speaker 1: you revealed that officers have made a number of arrests.

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Speaker 1: How many young people are in remand or in custody

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Speaker 1: at the moment.

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Speaker 3: So double check those figures this morning, Katie. And in detention,

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Speaker 3: which is obviously kids on remand and in custody. We've

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Speaker 3: got forty four across two sites, which is don Dale

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Speaker 3: and the Alice Springs Youth Detention Center.

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Speaker 1: So forty four at the moment. Does that mean that

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Speaker 1: they are at don Dale or that they could be

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Speaker 1: on remand in one of those other centers.

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Speaker 3: So there's only don Dale and Alice Springs all young

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Speaker 3: people who are in being held in detention are so

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Speaker 3: they just split across those two sites.

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Speaker 1: Now, is that up on previous months?

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Speaker 2: It is? I said that publicly yesterday.

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Speaker 3: It is up from I think we were tracking at

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Speaker 3: around thirty perhaps thirty three at the beginning of the month.

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Speaker 2: And that has changed.

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Speaker 3: We were at one point as low as eighteen, so

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Speaker 3: we have climbed quite steeply to forty four today.

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Speaker 1: Minister, Does that show this you know that we needed

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Speaker 1: that crackdown.

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Speaker 3: I think that police from time to time do targeted operations.

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Speaker 3: I know that you know in your own local areas

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Speaker 3: you'll work very closely with the police and you'll ask

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Speaker 3: them to target specific areas. They've done a number of

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Speaker 3: operations obviously both across Darwin, Alice Springs and Tenant Creek,

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Speaker 3: and I believe they're doing some activity also in Catherine.

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Speaker 3: So yes, they that's their normal operational they'll tell you that.

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Speaker 3: But obviously at the moment we have seen a spike

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Speaker 3: in crime, not just juvenile crime, because I think we

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Speaker 3: can talk about youth crime quite separately, but in fact

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Speaker 3: crime across the board. We've talked publicly about the impact

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Speaker 3: of COVID additional job seeker money plus two hundred and

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Speaker 3: twenty million dollars being poured in super and then we

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Speaker 3: find out about royalties just recently. That's a lot of

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Speaker 3: money flowing into the community to people, and a lot

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Speaker 3: of that's obviously gone to alcohol and gambling. Of course

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Speaker 3: there have been people spending it wisely, but yes, that

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Speaker 3: has caused an escalation of.

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Speaker 1: Issues, Minister. The Australian newspaper is reporting today that there's

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Speaker 1: a growing consensus among states to raise the age of

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Speaker 1: criminal responsibility from ten to twelve, with plans to go

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Speaker 1: up to fourteen. The change which has been revealed on

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Speaker 1: the thirtieth anniversary, of course, of the Royal Commission into

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Speaker 1: Aboriginal Debths in Custody report. It's part of a move

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Speaker 1: to lower Indigenous incarceration rates, particularly among youth. Minister, should

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Speaker 1: this age be raised.

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Speaker 3: This was also a recommendation of the Royal Commission, but

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Speaker 3: they recommended twelve. We've taken the position that what we're

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Speaker 3: going to do is watch the national discussion. It would

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Speaker 3: be pointless us then implementing the age of twelve if

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Speaker 3: then nationally they went to fourteen. So we need to

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Speaker 3: make sure that we sit back and see what happens there.

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Speaker 3: The other important part is if you're raising the age,

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Speaker 3: and let's say potentially we did raise it to twelve,

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Speaker 3: then you need to make sure that you have programs

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Speaker 3: for those young offenders under the age of twelve, and

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Speaker 3: that you're ready for a system change. So that work

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Speaker 3: is being done nationally, and we'll keep watching that. We

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Speaker 3: haven't we committed to the intent of overall intent of

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Speaker 3: the Royal Commission. So obviously we've taken that recommendation to

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Speaker 3: twelve seriously. But at the moment, we'll just keep watching

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Speaker 3: that national debate see where that lands.

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Speaker 1: So at the moment, from your perspective and from the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory government's perspective, there is no rush here when

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Speaker 1: it comes to raising the age.

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Speaker 2: There's no rush, all right, just go.

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Speaker 1: Back to those numbers, taking into account what we've just

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Speaker 1: spoken about. Are there any kids in detention at the

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Speaker 1: moment under the age of twelve?

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Speaker 2: Katie?

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Speaker 3: I would presume that there might be, but I don't

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Speaker 3: have that detail with me. Okay, that's a level of detail.

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Speaker 3: I would have to go through a number of reports

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Speaker 3: to work that out and break it down by an individual.

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Speaker 1: Now, I do want to ask how many kids are

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Speaker 1: currently being monitored by electronic monitoring.

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Speaker 3: So there at the moment we have got at the

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Speaker 3: end of March, there was twenty two young people fitted

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Speaker 3: with electronic monitoring. However, back during twenty nineteen twenty, we

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Speaker 3: had a total of three hundred and forty young people

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Speaker 3: they were fitted with electronic monitoring devices, and that's just

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Speaker 3: CORE ordered, Katie, So there is a difference. So police

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Speaker 3: already have certain powers around electronic monitoring, so when young

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Speaker 3: people are on police bail, for example, they can do that.

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Speaker 3: So that's a separate figure from that. That's three hundred

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Speaker 3: and forty during that financial year which were CORE ordered.

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Speaker 1: Now, Minister, speaking about those electronic monitoring bracelets, do you

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Speaker 1: feel as though they're working in the sense that I

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Speaker 1: know that there've been some discussion. You know that we

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Speaker 1: know that it's sort of not real time. So if

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Speaker 1: somebody breaches what they're supposed to be doing with those

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Speaker 1: on it's hard, as I understand it, for territory families

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Speaker 1: to be able to notify the police. Is that the case?

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Speaker 3: So I think that electronic monitoring is a condition of

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Speaker 3: bail often, Katie. So if let's say a young person

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Speaker 3: tampers with that electronic monitoring device, well then that would

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Speaker 3: be considered a breach of bar, which obviously can then

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Speaker 3: be followed up and prosecuted.

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Speaker 2: However, we have just moved to a new.

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Speaker 3: Provider which has expanded how many we have, so I

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Speaker 3: think we can go up to a thousand now it's

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Speaker 3: a brand new provider and we're changing some of the

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Speaker 3: technology around that. I'm obviously not an expert in electronic monitoring,

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Speaker 3: and neither are you, but I think that we're working

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Speaker 3: through the system of electronic monitoring. Having a look at

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Speaker 3: the changes that we're making at the moment has given

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Speaker 3: us the opportunity to review procedures and have a look

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Speaker 3: at the whole if you're like the policy settings that

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Speaker 3: sit below this for decision making aroundand electronic monitoring as well.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I think the new system that we've got

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Speaker 3: is a much improved system.

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Speaker 1: So would it be like, would it sort of be

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Speaker 1: able to let the police know, let's say, or let

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Speaker 1: territory families notify police if somebody has breached, you know,

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Speaker 1: done something to breach their conditions?

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Speaker 2: So that already exists, so territory families do currently ring

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Speaker 2: up the police and let them know. Okay, that happens.

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Speaker 1: Now, I just want to ask you, and this is

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Speaker 1: one of the things that I really do want to

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Speaker 1: speak about. And now as you pointed out when talking

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Speaker 1: about raising the age of criminal responsibility, there do need

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Speaker 1: to be different programs in place, you know, to try

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Speaker 1: to support young people who are on the path of reoffending.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think it's safe to say that

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Speaker 1: nobody in the community wants to see ten year old

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Speaker 1: kids locked up. You know. To me, I've got a

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Speaker 1: ten year old, the thought of it is entirely mortifying.

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Speaker 1: But the thought of a ten year old being involved

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Speaker 1: in crime is also entirely mortifying and really sad. Quite frankly, Minister,

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Speaker 1: what kind of well, actually, firstly, how many different diversion

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Speaker 1: programs do we have operating in the territory right now?

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Speaker 3: So there's a whole raft of diversion, Katie, diversion. Actually,

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Speaker 3: I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding about diversion.

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Speaker 3: Diversion can be police can send young people, or it

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Speaker 3: actually can be volunt to you know, instead of going

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Speaker 3: to court immediately, a young person can opt to go

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Speaker 3: on diversion prior to court. What that diversion does is

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Speaker 3: actually inform the court when they come back on that

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Speaker 3: charge around you know, what they've done and achieved on diversion.

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Speaker 3: So if they go to diversion. Before that, that might

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Speaker 3: be that they do some youth justice conferencing, and I

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Speaker 3: think again that's not well named, because youth Justice conferencing

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Speaker 3: is a ten week program where they get to face

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Speaker 3: and their families get to face what's going wrong in

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Speaker 3: their lives. And the Jesuits do an amazing job of

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Speaker 3: that down in other springs with some really great success

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Speaker 3: rates over a longer period than just the six months

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Speaker 3: post so they're seeing seventy percent reduction and redcidivism over

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Speaker 3: a longer period, which is really good.

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Speaker 2: We've also got the highly talked.

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Speaker 3: About work and boot camps and we've got a number

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Speaker 3: of those, and then we've got our back on back

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Speaker 3: on track, so we've got a lot of providers that

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Speaker 3: provide back on track programs. But you can also be

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Speaker 3: sentenced to diversion and that's where our boot camps and

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Speaker 3: those come into play. So a court can sentence a

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Speaker 3: young person to a boot to a boot camp, and

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Speaker 3: if they go to that boot camp and they don't participate,

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Speaker 3: they can actually.

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Speaker 2: Be brought back before the court.

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Speaker 3: So there's sort of it's pre sentencing and post sentencing

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Speaker 3: can be can be part of that diversionary program back

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Speaker 3: on Track specifically, we've worked with a number of providers

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Speaker 3: all the way around, and we've currently got about sixty

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Speaker 3: seven people out in those programs, and they work with

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Speaker 3: people like Congress who not just work with that young person,

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Speaker 3: but also work with their family. And what happens is

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Speaker 3: you try to get that young person. If the family's

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Speaker 3: not safe, you might move that young person, help that

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Speaker 3: person move out. You might also then help them finish

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Speaker 3: their education and get a job. So it's that reconnection

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Speaker 3: around back on Track, you know, the name says it all.

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Speaker 3: It's actually about getting that young person back on track

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Speaker 3: in their lives, whether that's in the home environment, whether

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Speaker 3: that's independent. And I was just recently speaking with Donna

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Speaker 3: Archi of Congress down in Alla Springs and they were working.

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Speaker 2: With a young girl.

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Speaker 3: She was only fifteen, but they were helping her live

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Speaker 3: independently and that she was just starting to work go

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Speaker 3: into a job. There was no way to get her

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Speaker 3: back into school. So those sorts of programs are in place.

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Speaker 1: Kate, Are these programs compulsory because when the Chief Minister

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Speaker 1: made the announcement about the crackdown on crime recently, he

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Speaker 1: said that he was surprised to hear that in some

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Speaker 1: instances we had youths that were refusing to do different

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Speaker 1: things and that they weren't sort of being forced to

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Speaker 1: follow out you know, some of those programs. Why is

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Speaker 1: that the case? I mean, if a youth has offended,

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Speaker 1: are they not then pushed to try and do one

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Speaker 1: of these programs to get them back on track?

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Speaker 3: And that's why I'm highlighting to you, Katie, that there's

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Speaker 3: pre court and there's post courts.

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Speaker 2: So if a.

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Speaker 3: Young person is offered diversion by police, they obviously see

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Speaker 3: that that young person has the opportunity to turn their

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Speaker 3: life around that is voluntary. If they say no, I'm

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Speaker 3: not going to do that, then they.

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Speaker 2: Are before the courts. The loophole that.

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Speaker 3: We've now discovered is if they then participate in diversion

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Speaker 3: and then don't complete that, then they're not immediately brought.

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Speaker 2: Back before the court.

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Speaker 3: And that's one of the changes that we're making right

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Speaker 3: So we're seeking to ensure that that can happen. So

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Speaker 3: the minute that a person doesn't, we get that flag

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Speaker 3: from the provider that that person is no longer participating

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Speaker 3: and they can be back before the court. And the

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Speaker 3: court will then take that diversion outcome non participation into

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Speaker 3: account and then they will get a sentence from the court.

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Speaker 3: If it's post court, then it's court ordered diversion, then

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Speaker 3: absolutely it's mandatory and those people need to go once again.

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Speaker 3: And if they breach that and do not be a

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Speaker 3: condition of their sentence that they go to that diversion camp.

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Speaker 3: Often it will be a camp like seven EMUs just

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Speaker 3: outside Borrolula, one of those, then that will happen. They'll

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Speaker 3: be brought back before the court again for for breach

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Speaker 3: of their sentencing.

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Speaker 1: With those boot camps as their call. With those camps,

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Speaker 1: do you have any idea how many kids have undertaken those,

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Speaker 1: let's say, over the last twelve months and whether they've

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Speaker 1: been successful.

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Speaker 2: I actually don't have that figure with me today, Katie,

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Speaker 2: but I do know that we have had that.

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Speaker 3: They're currently our sixty seven kids in the Back on

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Speaker 3: Track program, and we have had during in the youth

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Speaker 3: Justicing conferencing. As I said, it's not just one conference,

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Speaker 3: it's a ten week program. In nineteen twenty we had

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Speaker 3: two hundred and thirty seven young people participate in that,

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Speaker 3: which so there was two hundred and thirty seven youth

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Speaker 3: Justice conferences and within twelve months, sixty four percent of

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Speaker 3: them had not reoffended.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, we might even see whether we're able

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Speaker 1: to get some figures on the boot camps if we

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Speaker 1: can sort of after we get off air, Minister, I

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Speaker 1: do want to ask you. I know that there are

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Speaker 1: one of the things which I'm really keen to get

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Speaker 1: some more detail on, is these parent responsibility agreements and

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Speaker 1: what these agreements are going to look like.

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Speaker 3: Sure, and we've spoken a bit about it briefly before, Katie,

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Speaker 3: so I welcome the opportunity to come back and speak

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Speaker 3: to you about them. Because family responsibility agreements and orders

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Speaker 3: already exist in legislation, they just not used. How can

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Speaker 3: they weren't that they are, there's a failure to be

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Speaker 3: able to prosecute them. So a family responsibility agreement in

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Speaker 3: the Act is voluntary. There is a real problem with

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Speaker 3: getting families to agree to get onto them. But then

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Speaker 3: if they don't, if they fail on that. So there

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Speaker 3: was a very low number that actually got I think

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Speaker 3: it was as low as three that they got to

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Speaker 3: agree to have them. They went and took some one

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Speaker 3: of them at least to court and it was the

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Speaker 3: judge just won't because so punitive and nature. What it

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Speaker 3: says is, if you don't do what it says in

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Speaker 3: the agreement, we're going to issue an order to you.

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Speaker 3: And if you fail on that order, it's so punitive,

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Speaker 3: we're going to take things like your TV. Essentially, courts

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Speaker 3: won't do that because they'll say these are vulnerable families.

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Speaker 2: We're not going to give that order. So it's failed.

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Speaker 3: Last November I publicly talked about family responsibility agreements and

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Speaker 3: seeing where we could go with them. We quickly realized,

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Speaker 3: working with NAJA and nt Costs, that we actually could

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Speaker 3: not get families on agreements. The same problems existed. So

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Speaker 3: we've realized now we need to make some legislative change.

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Speaker 3: So we need to change the Act which allows us

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Speaker 3: to get court ordered family responsibly agreements. So we are moving.

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Speaker 3: We are moving from a two phase approach, the first

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Speaker 3: bit being voluntary to then being mandatory, to a simple

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Speaker 3: mandatory approach. Now that's not to say this is where

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Speaker 3: territory families have worked with families for a long period

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Speaker 3: of time or just worked intensely with families to change

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Speaker 3: the family environment. Where it's contributing to a child's offending. So,

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Speaker 3: as we've spoken before, it's not a safe place for

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Speaker 3: the child. So they're out on the streets and they're

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Speaker 3: doing and they end up doing the wrong thing. So

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Speaker 3: what we need to do with family responsibility or agreements,

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Speaker 3: and that's what we're doing in a couple of weeks

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Speaker 3: time and during the Assembly, we will be bringing forward

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Speaker 3: the changes to the legislation and.

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Speaker 2: They will order.

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Speaker 3: It will be an order from the court that is

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Speaker 3: binding on that family. And as I've publicly said before, Katie,

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Speaker 3: if that family doesn't follow that order, and that order

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Speaker 3: will talk about things like sending your kid to school,

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Speaker 3: it will talk about if you've got alcohol issues, putting

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Speaker 3: yourself on the BDR, if you've got a gambling problem,

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Speaker 3: addressing those issues. At the same time when they're on

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Speaker 3: the order will continue to support that family to make

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Speaker 3: a change. And if at the end of that we

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Speaker 3: are now considering that if you're not sending your child

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Speaker 3: to school and your child is on the street at

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Speaker 3: night time, that's neglect and it will trigger a family assessment,

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Speaker 3: on a child protection assessment. That's the outcome of this.

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Speaker 3: So that's you know, some people will say that's a

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Speaker 3: big stick, but it's actually not. That's actually where we

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Speaker 3: get to a point that the family itself, and we're

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Speaker 3: talking a broader family here who might be able to

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Speaker 3: step in and assist us to get that child to

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Speaker 3: school and get that work done. But we have given

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Speaker 3: We are saying we've exhausted every bit of support we've

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Speaker 3: given to this family, and a child orotection notification will

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Speaker 3: be triggered.

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Speaker 1: I would say, it's actually about trying to give a

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Speaker 1: child the opportunity to live a good life.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, Katie, And I think you know, not sending your

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Speaker 3: child to school is neglect and we see it too often,

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Speaker 3: particularly you know, you'll go out during lunchtime and places

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Speaker 3: like that here and Dar and see it in other

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Speaker 3: springs that those children are not attending school.

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Speaker 2: They need to be in school.

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Speaker 1: Kate, I mean, how many chances are people going to

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Speaker 1: get here? Because I can hear people listening right now

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Speaker 1: thinking to themselves, is this going to be a little

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Speaker 1: bit like you know, some of the situations we see

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Speaker 1: in public housing where people seem as though they break

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Speaker 1: the rules time and time again and nothing ever happens.

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Speaker 3: You need to have a process. My understanding is around legislation.

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Speaker 3: If you're going to use a legislative tool, which is

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Speaker 3: what the agreements will be, you need to have a

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Speaker 3: process that gets you to that point. So already territory

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Speaker 3: families work extensively to support families. So it will be

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Speaker 3: a policy around and we're working through that what that

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Speaker 3: policy that sits underneath that legislative change looks like, and

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Speaker 3: that will be trigger points for that so that when

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Speaker 3: you go into court and you're seeking the order, the

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Speaker 3: court will need to be satisfied that you've made every

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Speaker 3: effort to get that family back on track to support

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Speaker 3: that young people so that they don't offend. That's the

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Speaker 3: trick to it, and so it won't be about chances.

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Speaker 3: It will be about a process applied to families around.

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Speaker 3: You know, yes, here's the opportunity you need to get

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Speaker 3: your kid to school, and if that fails, then what's

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Speaker 3: the next step?

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Speaker 1: Kate, I'm mindful of time, but I do want to

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Speaker 1: ask what, like, what's the punishment going to be or

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Speaker 1: what is going to be the process to use your words,

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Speaker 1: if they're not getting their children to school and if

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Speaker 1: they're not actually doing what is expected in that order.

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Speaker 3: We just agreed Katie, that that would be neglect and

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Speaker 3: so that a child protection notification will be triggered and

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Speaker 3: that family will be investigated on that basis, so that

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Speaker 3: it may end up that the family that that child

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Speaker 3: is removed from that family environment and place where in

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Speaker 3: a more an environment where they're supported to get the best.

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Speaker 2: Out of life.

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Speaker 1: I mean, are you concerned about about what you know?

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Speaker 1: What some may say, are we going to spark another

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Speaker 1: stolen generation by doing something like this?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely not, Katie.

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Speaker 3: I think that every child deserves an education, every child

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Speaker 3: deserves a future, and what we need to make sure

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Speaker 3: is that, you know, all these families are well supported.

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Speaker 3: We need to make sure that they get, you know,

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Speaker 3: as much support as possible, because of course, a child

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Speaker 3: is best and thrives most often when they're with their family.

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Speaker 3: We know that, but we have to also have as

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Speaker 3: a society, we have to understand that in order for

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Speaker 3: a child to have a future, they need to be

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Speaker 3: well kept out of the Roman system. We also need

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Speaker 3: to make sure that they're getting an education, and where

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Speaker 3: that's failing, we need to pssibly step in as a government.

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Speaker 2: Kate.

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Speaker 1: One of the really sad things that we've heard a

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Speaker 1: lot in recent months is about kids on the street

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Speaker 1: all hours of the day and night. Alice Springs is

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Speaker 1: an example that we've been given. Plus earlier in the week,

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Speaker 1: we actually heard from a listener who said that there

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Speaker 1: are fourteen year old boys sleeping at the Casarina Interchange

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Speaker 1: at night. What is done when kids are roaming the

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Speaker 1: streets at night and where can they be taken if

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Speaker 1: they don't have a safe place to go.

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Speaker 3: So in talking to police and talking to the youth

399
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Speaker 3: outreach officers down in Alice Springs extensively around these sorts

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Speaker 3: of issues, they have informed me that there has never

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Speaker 3: been a time that they haven't found a safe place.

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Speaker 3: We underestimate the people working in this area. Police and

403
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Speaker 3: yoios I'll call them. Those are the youth outreach officers.

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Speaker 3: They know each child, they know their family situations, They

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Speaker 3: know what safe place is.

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Speaker 2: In Alice Springs. We have a safe sleeping place.

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Speaker 3: We fund the Alice Springs Youth a comt services in

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Speaker 3: Alice Springs to do that work.

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Speaker 2: If we ever need them, we don't use them, Katie.

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Speaker 3: I've spoken to them, my met with them on my

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Speaker 3: recent trip to Alice Springs and they you know, they're

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Speaker 3: a wonderful support service, but we don't use them. And

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Speaker 3: that's because, you know, our professionals working in the space

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Speaker 3: are able to find safe spaces. Now that might not

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Speaker 3: be in the family home, but they do. They are

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Speaker 3: able to find safe sleeping places for those children.

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Speaker 1: Minnestero, I know that there will be people in Ala

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Speaker 1: Springs listening to this interview and thinking, then why are

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Speaker 1: their kids on the street at night?

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Speaker 3: So those kids are being picked up regularly by the

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Speaker 3: services we've got down there. The fact is that some

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Speaker 3: of those kids are out because they their own home.

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Speaker 3: That's not necessarily the safe sleeping space identified by our

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Speaker 3: service providers, but their particular home circumstances might not be safe.

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Speaker 2: The other thing that I've been.

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Speaker 1: Here, it happens in that situation, so.

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Speaker 3: They might take them to a family member that they know.

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Speaker 3: So there might be an auntie that they know that

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Speaker 3: takes those kids to school, perhaps every day, and that's

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Speaker 3: the situation. I met a lady down there just recently, Katie.

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Speaker 3: She's extraordinary. She lives next door to a lady whose

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Speaker 3: children she sleeps overnight, and she does it regularly. She's

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Speaker 3: often picking those children up and bringing them back to

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Speaker 3: her home. So there are people that are providing those

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Speaker 3: safe sleeping places for young people.

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Speaker 1: Kate, we are fast running out of time. I do

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Speaker 1: want to talk to you about these remand facilities which

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Speaker 1: are going to be expanded. Where are they going to

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Speaker 1: be and what's it going to look like?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So what we did, Katie, is we put aside.

441
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,160
Speaker 3: My argument was that there would be a likely result

442
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 3: in additional young people in remand whilst we're where we've

443
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,400
Speaker 3: been having these discussions about what potentially needs to be done,

444
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,640
Speaker 3: So that is a figure that's been put aside where

445
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 3: we might need to have some flexibility in our facilities.

446
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:55,679
Speaker 3: At the moment, we're redoing the Alice Springs facility and

447
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 3: bringing it up to a standard where young people in

448
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 3: Alice Springs can actually get turn their lives around, So

449
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 3: that works being done down in other springs. So whilst

450
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 3: that's happening, we actually are a limited capacity in other

451
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 3: springs and that's been recognized by our government. So the

452
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,199
Speaker 3: current facility here in dah and the don Dale has

453
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 3: some flexibility because obviously it's the old jail site, so

454
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 3: that money would be would be used in order to,

455
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 3: if you like, expand the footprint out at Dondale so

456
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 3: that we can accommodate more young people.

457
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: There is that our best move at this point when

458
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,679
Speaker 1: we are supposed to be building a new facility.

459
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 2: So Katie, that works happening.

460
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 3: So the new facility is being built, but you have

461
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 3: to make do with at the time. You know, this

462
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 3: is about being flexible and understanding what your future needs

463
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 3: might be. And so that's that money.

464
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 2: You know.

465
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 3: We never said we're building new facilities. We never said

466
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,199
Speaker 3: that's for facilities, for new facilities. What that is is

467
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,639
Speaker 3: it's money set aside for us to be able to

468
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 3: expand where we are.

469
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 1: Minister. Is that happening because we do not have enough

470
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,880
Speaker 1: space at Dondale and in Oura Springs.

471
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 3: Well, don Dale is in the old footprint of the

472
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 3: police and we've got enough beds for the amount of

473
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 3: young people that we had in the past. If those

474
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 3: numbers continue to be to grow, there's an expectation by

475
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 3: the community that will have a safe facility for them

476
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 3: and we will need to do some work around that.

477
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 1: Okay. So because we are actually you know, having this crackdown,

478
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,439
Speaker 1: it does mean that realistically we need some more space.

479
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 3: So we've been talking to the police about what that

480
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 3: crackdown that might look like and once we change the legislation,

481
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 3: what that might look like. So we're anticipating, hopefully only

482
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 3: a slight increase. So the police tell us that there

483
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,880
Speaker 3: are a number of repeat defenders and it's a small cohort.

484
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 3: So we need to make sure that if those young

485
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 3: people are put into detention that we have the capacity

486
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 3: to hold them safely and also hold them in a

487
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 3: way that meets all the regulation.

488
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: But realistically, by the sounds of it, once these legislative

489
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: changes come into play, you are expecting that there's going

490
00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: to be an increase in the number of young people

491
00:23:59,520 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 1: out there.

492
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 3: It's my job, Katie, to get ahead of the game

493
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 3: and I have had significant discussions with my colleagues around this.

494
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 3: That's why we've put aside the five million dollars identified

495
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 3: that maybe need for a five million dollars to allow

496
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 3: for the expansion of safe and secure beds for young

497
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 3: people in.

498
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 1: Lamand Minister, just on closing, I know that your press

499
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 1: for time this morning, as are we. I just want

500
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: to get to the fact that we know that earlier

501
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,360
Speaker 1: in the week the colp opposition obviously called for Parliament

502
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: to be recalled for a day to get these legislative

503
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: changes introduced. We have also obviously spoken to the Police

504
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: Association president Paul mchw He told me he's concerned about

505
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 1: the timeline with these legislative changes. But then on the

506
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 1: other hand, the Criminal Lawyers Association of the Northern Territory,

507
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: Marty Ost, their president, has told the Northern Territory News

508
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: today that proposed changes to bail laws need to be abandoned.

509
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: How are you going to take all of these views

510
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 1: into account and also the expectations of the community at

511
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 1: this point, it's.

512
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 3: You know, it is a hard road to travel, Katie,

513
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 3: and you do need to get that balance right. Community

514
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 3: safety has to come first and you can see that

515
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 3: our government is responding to that. But with that, it's

516
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 3: really important that we remember you can't just write legislation.

517
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 3: Legislation needs to be talked about within our agencies because

518
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 3: we need to know, as we've just talked about, the

519
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 3: on flow and consequences of legislation can be that you

520
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,199
Speaker 3: need to expand a facility like don Dale, so you

521
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 3: have to you can't just slam a piece of legislation through.

522
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 3: The Other thing that I really want your listeners to

523
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 3: take away from this is that we are not taking

524
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 3: our time, as being said quite loosely.

525
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 2: Around the place. I'm probably by me, Kay.

526
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 3: What we're doing is we're getting it right. Because if

527
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 3: you have a piece of legislation, you actually have to

528
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 3: have the policy sitting underneath that, Katie, and that actually

529
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 3: inform that legislation. So, and I'll give you an exam here.

530
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 3: If a young person steals food and they get caught

531
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 3: and they get charged with theft, that person might be

532
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 3: put out on the police might bail them, and they

533
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 3: might get an electronic monitor on. At the same time,

534
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 3: that young people then might breach their bail by stealing food. Again,

535
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 3: the circumstances for that young person might be that they're

536
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 3: really hungry and they're in a family situation where they're

537
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,360
Speaker 3: not just not being fed. What happens then is under

538
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 3: the coop legislation, it's my understanding that that child would

539
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 3: then be put into remand because they've breached their bail.

540
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 2: Now, I think the.

541
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 3: Community understands that the best thing for that child is

542
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 3: to address that issue about why they're stealing, not necessarily

543
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 3: put them into remand where you've got some young people

544
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 3: that are in there for some fairly you know, things

545
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 3: like assault and those sort of more serious offenses. So

546
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 3: I think that what you have to do is you

547
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 3: have to have policy underneath that that gives police the

548
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 3: flexibility and the understanding and the tools to be making

549
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 3: decisions so that the police can then make the decision

550
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 3: about that young person, do they continue to put that

551
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 3: young person on the on bail. So that policy work

552
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 3: is being done right now. It's about informing decisions for

553
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 3: police when they're making those you know, when they're making

554
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 3: that decision about what they do with that young person.

555
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 3: That's the important work. And it can't be just done instantaneously.

556
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 3: And we've been working very very hard on it over

557
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 3: the last few probably the last month or so. So

558
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 3: we need to, you know, make sure that there's no

559
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 3: unintended consequences of legislative change. We need to make sure

560
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 3: that everybody's briefed on it before it gets rammed through parliament.

561
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 3: There are processes, and in fact, May is a good

562
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 3: timeline to get this stuff done.

563
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 1: Properly, and is it going to pass in May?

564
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 3: So we make that decision as a caucus there's no

565
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 3: secret about that. So once it's all come together, that

566
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 3: will go to Cabinet, and then Cabinet will go to Caucus.

567
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 3: And so this is how we'd like to treat that.

568
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 2: That's normal. That's the normal way we operate.

569
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: Minister for Territory Families, Kate Warden, I was going to

570
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: ask you a couple of other things. Actually I do

571
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: just want to take you to one question that we've

572
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: had from a listener yesterday. It says, Hi, Katie, with

573
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,120
Speaker 1: all the talk about about crime throughout the Northern Territory,

574
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: I thought i'd pass on my concerns. I have since

575
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen taken teams to the Alice Masters. We missed

576
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: out on twenty twenty due to COVID. At that time

577
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: I had nearly sixty team members from all over the country.

578
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 1: How do I try and recruit them to come and

579
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: enjoy the games in twenty twenty two with all the

580
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: crime and assaults, in particular in Alice Springs, what's the

581
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: government going to do? They are the biggest sponsor of

582
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: the games. How can we keep players safe?

583
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 3: I think that for your listener there, we have done

584
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 3: an intense amount of work in Alice Springs. We are

585
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 3: working extremely hard. I've been down to Alie Springs three

586
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 3: times since I've become the Minister for Territory Families, Katie,

587
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 3: and I don't feel unsafe in Alice Springs. I've been

588
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 3: out at nighttime. I've been out with our service providers.

589
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 3: I don't feel unsafe in Alice Springs. That doesn't take

590
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 3: away from the fact that there has been crime, but

591
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 3: I can give your listener some confidence that we are

592
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 3: working extremely hard in Alice Springs on those issues. It's broader, issh.

593
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 3: It's more broader issues than just kids out at nighttime.

594
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 3: There are alcohol issues that are being addressed. There are

595
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 3: issues about getting people back to community now post extra

596
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 3: COVID money, and the Alice Springs brings such vibrancy to

597
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 3: Alice Springs that the Master's Games does, so it's really

598
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 3: important that we make sure and we send that message

599
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 3: out widely that Alice Springs is a wonderful hub and

600
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 3: the Masters are a fantastic event, and I really encourage

601
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 3: them to get along and continue as it has been

602
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 3: in the past.

603
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: Minister for Territory Families, Kate Warden, I really appreciate your

604
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: time and speaking to us so extensively about this issue

605
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: this morning. I know there's plenty of other things we

606
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: could have asked about some of your other portfolios, but

607
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: I thought that it was really important today for us

608
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: to hear more about some of this other work that

609
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: is being undertaken.

610
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 2: Thank you for the opportunity, Katie.

611
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,959
Speaker 1: You are listening to Mix one oh four point nine's

612
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: three sixty