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Speaker 1: Joining me live on the line right now is the

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Speaker 1: opposition leader, Lea Finocchiarro. Good morning to you, Leah.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie, and to your wonderful listeners. Lea.

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Speaker 1: We had the Assistant Commissioner on the show a little

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Speaker 1: bit earlier this morning for Regional and Remote Policing, Martin Dole.

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Speaker 1: I'm not too sure whether you heard it, but he

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Speaker 1: just talked us through what's going on in Alice Springs

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Speaker 1: and said that since Operation Drina commenced on the twenty

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Speaker 1: fourth of November, well, there's been a phenomenal outcome. I

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Speaker 1: think you'd have to say, one hundred arrests, one hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty seven traffic infringement notices, eight hundred and ninety

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Speaker 1: two liters of alcohol tipped out, four hundred and seventy

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Speaker 1: three people taken into protective custody. Pretty unbelievable numbers, particularly

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Speaker 1: the volume of alcohol that's been tipped out.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's extraordinary, but not surprising, Katie. I mean, people

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Speaker 2: and Alice Springs have been screaming from the rooftops for

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Speaker 2: the government to do something about crime. We know our

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Speaker 2: poor police force is just losing police officers handover this

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Speaker 2: they're under resource, and so in desperation, finally this government

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Speaker 2: sent those extra extra forty police down to Alice Springs,

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Speaker 2: which I've got no doubt has been a wonderful, wonderful thing.

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Speaker 2: But ultimately we know from the annual report that we

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Speaker 2: have thirty five less officers this year than we had

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Speaker 2: last year. We know attrition is at eleven percent, and

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Speaker 2: so what is this government doing to address the crisis

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Speaker 2: in our police force so that police feel valued, that

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Speaker 2: health and well being is a priority, so that we

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Speaker 2: can stop losing so many police and then look at

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Speaker 2: permanently having more offices on the ground in Alice Springs.

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Speaker 2: So you know, this police crisis is not new. It's

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Speaker 2: been there for a couple of years now, and it's

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Speaker 2: something we've pushed five times in Parliament, Katie, But this

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Speaker 2: government is just bearing its head in the sand on

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Speaker 2: it now. Leah.

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Speaker 1: We know though that there is going to be fourteen

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Speaker 1: new officers arriving. So fourteen of those new recruits, do

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Speaker 1: you not think that that's enough additional officers for ALUs

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Speaker 1: in the long term.

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Speaker 2: No, fourteen is fantastic, don't get me wrong, But to

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Speaker 2: compare it, we've just had a surge of forty and

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Speaker 2: that's finally made an impact. You've got to remember fourteen

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Speaker 2: is a lot, but there's not fourteen on the ground

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Speaker 2: at any one time. You've got to take into account

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Speaker 2: shift changes and leave and all of those other things.

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Speaker 2: So there really needs to be more work being done

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Speaker 2: to plug the holes in the bucket. I mean, we

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Speaker 2: can keep pushing recruits out through the college, that's fine,

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Speaker 2: but ultimately what we want is to make sure our

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Speaker 2: police feel valued and that policing is a long term career.

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Speaker 2: We need to as a community, and as you know,

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Speaker 2: the labor government needs to make sure they understand what

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Speaker 2: is going on in police and how we can make

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Speaker 2: it it's better. I don't want to just see hundreds

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Speaker 2: of new recruits every year while we're losing hundreds more

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Speaker 2: out the other end, Katie, that experience is vital to

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Speaker 2: the territory and to a strong community.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of that number? Eight hundred and

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Speaker 1: ninety two leaders of alcohol being tipped out over that

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Speaker 1: period of time, and that takes you to Monday this week,

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Speaker 1: so that's presumably even gone up since since Monday this week,

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Speaker 1: but eight hundred and ninety two leads.

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Speaker 2: Of alcohol, it shows you just how bad the situation is,

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Speaker 2: and it reinforces this idea that stronger futures just disappeared

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Speaker 2: in the blink of an eye. This government had ten

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Speaker 2: years to plan for a transition, and instead of having

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Speaker 2: communities continue to stay dry with an ability for them

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Speaker 2: to change that if they wanted to, they reversed it.

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Speaker 2: They did it the other way around. And people have

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Speaker 2: been disempowered by these communities haven't been heard. No matter

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Speaker 2: where you are across the territory. You've seen the impact

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Speaker 2: the numbers. We got data coming out of written questions

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Speaker 2: not long ago, Katie, which showed massive increases in alcohol

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Speaker 2: related harm since Stronger Futures ended. And you know, this

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Speaker 2: government is just failing to see that it's been a problem.

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Speaker 2: It's failed to prepare, failed to make sure our police

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Speaker 2: and our hospitals and our nursing is ready to take

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Speaker 2: in the influx of additional our correlated harm. And so

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Speaker 2: we're seeing this disaster. And I've got no doubt that

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Speaker 2: paid A played a big part in why we the

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Speaker 2: territory government ended up sending another forty police into Alice

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Speaker 2: Springs for this temporary period.

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Speaker 1: Well, they say that it was an operational decision that

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Speaker 1: had to obviously be made by the Police Commissioner Jamie Chalker.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, look, labors say a lot of things, Katie,

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Speaker 2: and very little rubber hits the road. I mean, ultimately,

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Speaker 2: who cares whose decision it was? The territory and are

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Speaker 2: crying out for support, and ultimately the buck stopped to

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Speaker 2: the minister, and the buck stops with the Chief Minister

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Speaker 2: if she thinks there needs to be additional resources in

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Speaker 2: Alice Springs, and it's her job to be making sure

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Speaker 2: the Commissioner understands that pretty clearly. And I think what

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Speaker 2: we've seen is a hands off government with a hands

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Speaker 2: off approach, a minister who's more focused on territory families

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Speaker 2: than turning our police force into social workers, and she

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Speaker 2: is in backing the blue to support community safety on

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Speaker 2: the front line. Leah.

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Speaker 1: One of the other issues that continues to bubble along

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Speaker 1: the ship lift. I know that you now or the

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Speaker 1: COLP has indeed referred the Shiplift project to the Public

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Speaker 1: Accounts Committee following concerns that the value for territorians isn't

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Speaker 1: going to be realized, and it's around growing costs and

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Speaker 1: the demise of one of the lead contractors. What do

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Speaker 1: you think that this referral to the Public Accounts Committee

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Speaker 1: will do?

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Speaker 2: So this is a watchdog. This is a watchdog for

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Speaker 2: government spending, and that watchdog has great powers and is

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Speaker 2: a very important part of the scrutiny process. Now, for

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Speaker 2: Natasha files to have come out this week and on

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Speaker 2: the very day that we sent the letter to the

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Speaker 2: watchdog saying the watchdog will not be investigating is exactly

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Speaker 2: the same as her saying the IKAC won't be investigating corruption.

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Speaker 2: It's just astonishing, Katie. You could have blown me over

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Speaker 2: with a feather to hear her say that this is

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Speaker 2: not her decision, it's not her call. And clearly she's

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Speaker 2: got everything to hide. I mean there must be some

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Speaker 2: files that are secret and she doesn't want anyone to

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Speaker 2: see them. So who does determined measure?

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Speaker 1: Who does determine whether something can be looked at by

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Speaker 1: the Public Accounts Committee or not?

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Speaker 2: It's actually the watchdog themselves. So on the very day

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Speaker 2: we sent the letter, the watchdog hasn't even met yet, Katie.

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Speaker 2: So how can we have a chief minister coming out

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Speaker 2: and saying no, no, the Watchdog's not going to be

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Speaker 2: investigating this when they haven't met, they haven't seen the referral,

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Speaker 2: they haven't considered what we're proposing.

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Speaker 1: And it's a.

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Speaker 2: Decision absolutely at arm's length from government. This is a

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Speaker 2: bipartisan parliamentary watchdog that investigates spending of territories money. This

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Speaker 2: is not Natasha files his money, it's the community.

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Speaker 1: And so do you think that that indicates that there's

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Speaker 1: interference by the Chief.

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Speaker 2: Minister, without question? It also shows she has no confidence

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Speaker 2: in her parliamentary colleagues. Joe Bowden, he's the chair of

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Speaker 2: that committee. Clearly she's got no confidence in him or

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Speaker 2: any of the other members of Parliament to determine whether

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Speaker 2: or not an investigation is required into whether this project

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Speaker 2: still has value for territory given it's gone from one

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Speaker 2: hundred million dollars of taxpayers money to over half a

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Speaker 2: billion dollars Katie, So this is it's not an extraordinary

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Speaker 2: thing we've done. This is very routine. But we have

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Speaker 2: a defensive Chief Minister wanting to bury this and kill

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Speaker 2: it before it's even been looked down.

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Speaker 1: Well, and the thing is, if you don't allow it

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Speaker 1: to go through that process and we know that the

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Speaker 1: cost blowout is well you know there's already been a

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Speaker 1: cost blowout, but also presumably there is potentially going to

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Speaker 1: be delays as a result of Cloth Group entering into administrations,

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Speaker 1: so presumably there'd big delays. I sort of can't understand

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Speaker 1: why the Public Accounts Committee isn't able to just have

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Speaker 1: a look into this and make sure that it does still.

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Speaker 2: Stack up well. It should be abled to, it should

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Speaker 2: be doing it. This is a committee of the Parliament.

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Speaker 2: It is not a playtoy of Natasha Files. She has

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Speaker 2: no authority or jurisdiction over whether or not the Watchdog

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Speaker 2: does a review. And like I said, this is akin

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Speaker 2: to her saying to the k Commissioner, no, you're not

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Speaker 2: going to investigate that corruption. I mean it's extraordinary over

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Speaker 2: region interference in a scrutiny process that is deliberately designed

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Speaker 2: to investigate the expenditure of taxpayers dollars.

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Speaker 1: So where too from now?

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Speaker 2: Money?

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Speaker 1: Where too from now?

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Speaker 2: With this layer, Well, we are waiting for the Public

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Speaker 2: Accounts Committee to actually get back to us the Watchdog.

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Speaker 2: It would be very interesting what they say. Will Joel Bowden,

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Speaker 2: you know, be listening to the demands of his leader,

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Speaker 2: Will he be doing his job on behalf of the

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Speaker 2: Parliament and accepting this referral. We'll be keeping a very

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Speaker 2: close eye on this, Katie, because the committee so oh,

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Speaker 2: I couldn't tell you, Katy, it is Joel Bowden and

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Speaker 2: then two other Labor members. We have Bill Yam who's

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Speaker 2: a CLP member, and Robin Lamley I believe is the

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Speaker 2: independent member on that committee.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so obviously they've got the numbers in terms of

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Speaker 1: their being through and then they're being billion and Robin

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Speaker 1: Lamley buck essentially, you know, if this is something that

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Speaker 1: Territorians do want to know whether it's value for money still,

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Speaker 1: I guess we're already kind of locked into it then

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Speaker 1: though anyway, aren't we well.

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Speaker 2: What it does do. We've done this for many projects, Katie,

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Speaker 2: when I was a backbench, when I was on the Watchdog.

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Speaker 2: You know, we looked into the development of the new

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Speaker 2: prison and whether or not that was value for territory.

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Speaker 2: It's looked into asset management systems and it systems of government.

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Speaker 2: This is a very fundamental part of scrutiny of government spending.

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Speaker 2: It happens right across the country and the world. So

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Speaker 2: there's nothing new here but to have a chief Minister

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Speaker 2: interfere at this level is completely unacceptable. It's defensive, it

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Speaker 2: shows she's got something to hide, and half a billion

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Speaker 2: dollars is a massive amount of taxpayers money. This absolutely

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Speaker 2: warrants and investigation into that value for territory proposition which

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Speaker 2: territorians expect. This is not her money. Territorianes are not

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Speaker 2: her piggy bank. It's an untrustworthy decision of hers. It

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Speaker 2: shows she's got something to hide and just has completely

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Speaker 2: out of touch disregard for community sentiment.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you what I reckon. I'll be interested

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Speaker 1: to hear from our listeners this morning. Do you think

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Speaker 1: that this does need to go through the Public Accounts Committee?

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Speaker 1: You can send us a text and let us know

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Speaker 1: zero four double nine seven double one three six zero leah.

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Speaker 1: Before I let you go, I know that the colp

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Speaker 1: Well Bill Yan, has issued a statement saying that he's

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Speaker 1: quite concerned that there's going to be an exodus of

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Speaker 1: public servants heading to other states and that it could

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Speaker 1: continue for years. Why do you think, well, why does

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Speaker 1: he think that that's the case.

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Speaker 2: Well, we've been getting so much feedback and the data

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Speaker 2: speaks for itself. Katie. Ultimately this pay freeze over the

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Speaker 2: last two years has had very damaging consequences to our

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Speaker 2: high attrition rates. We were just talking about police earlier

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Speaker 2: at eleven percent. Our fieries are under resources. There's stations

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Speaker 2: where there's one full time fire officer at them. You know,

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Speaker 2: there are massive problems. And whilst this government has managed

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Speaker 2: to land a deal with our teachers, which is wonderful news,

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Speaker 2: many of them have already made up their decision to

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Speaker 2: leave because of the gross uncertainty this government has put

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Speaker 2: the teaching profession under and so we've got schools having

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Speaker 2: to now start recruitment processes for next year. We've got

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Speaker 2: the police attrition rate increasing. This also impacts our nurses,

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Speaker 2: our corrections officers, our fieries, power and water corporation and so,

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Speaker 2: you know, two long years of a freeze and a

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Speaker 2: fight to lead to this point now where most EBA

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Speaker 2: negotiations are not done. We're all seeing the you know,

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Speaker 2: advertising that the Northern Territory Police Association are putting out.

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Speaker 2: It's damaging people are making those decisions to go and

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Speaker 2: with it. We can't afford to lose these experienced professionals

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Speaker 2: that deliver frontline services that we cannot reply.

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Speaker 1: We have just had word Lea. Joel Bowden is the chair,

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Speaker 1: of course of the Public Accounts Committee, Lawrence Costa the

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Speaker 1: deputy chair, Robin Lamley on there as is Bill Yan

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Speaker 1: and Brent Potter is the third Labor member that's on

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Speaker 1: the Public Accounts Committee. So there you go.

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Speaker 2: That's right, and you know, shame on them. It really

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Speaker 2: shows that Natasha Files has no confidence in her Labour team,

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Speaker 2: no respect for the parliamentary process, the scrutiny for the

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Speaker 2: watchdogs for truce or transparency, and so it's really just

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Speaker 2: undermines any credibility or trust that Territorians have in her

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Speaker 2: and in her government.

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Speaker 1: I guess their response would be that your political game

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Speaker 1: playing here, Leah. What would you say to that?

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Speaker 2: I don't think investigating whether or not spending half a

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Speaker 2: billion dollars that is a gameplay. I mean, most people

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Speaker 2: would shudder at the thought of this government spending half

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Speaker 2: a billion dollars, let alone doing it without any rigorous

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Speaker 2: process whatsoever. This is a project that started at one

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Speaker 2: hundred million dollars six years ago and has ballooned over

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Speaker 2: sixty years with delays, cost blowouts, and now this major

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Speaker 2: impact of cloth going into administration. The watchdog looking at

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Speaker 2: this is absolutely pertinent and needs to be done and

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Speaker 2: if labor have nothing to hide then they will support it.

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Speaker 1: Well. Leah finocchiiro Before we let you go, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for all your time throughout the year. It has

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Speaker 1: been a massive year. Not sure if we'll catch up

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Speaker 1: with you again before Christmas, so if we don't speak

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Speaker 1: to you, I hope you have a lovely Christmas with

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Speaker 1: your family and thanks so much for your time throughout

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Speaker 1: the year.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you very much, Katy, and thank you to

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Speaker 2: your wonderful listeners. It's just such a great way to

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Speaker 2: communicate with the community and I just wish everyone the

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Speaker 2: most wonderful Christmas, safe new Year, and I look forward

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Speaker 2: to talking to everyone again in the new year and

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Speaker 2: keeping up the fight. Katie, good on you.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Leah, thanks for your time.

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Speaker 2: Take care everyone.

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Speaker 1: You two