1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Do you feel like an impostor do you worry that 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: people will eventually figure out that you have no idea 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: what you're doing? And if you do why. Kara Swisher 4 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: is a celebrated journalist, the host of popular podcasts Pivot 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: and Sway, and an opinion columnist for The New York Times. 6 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: She's a pretty big deal, and she's actually and refreshingly 7 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: happy to say so. She doesn't have imposter syndrome because 8 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 1: she spent her whole career of building her skills and 9 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: learning to recognize what's good and what's not. So when 10 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: she applies it to her own work and believes she's 11 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: good at what she does, why shouldn't she believe herself. 12 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: My name is doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an organizational psychologist 13 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: and the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium. And this 14 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: is how I work, a show about how to help 15 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: you do your best work? What today is my favorite tip? Episode? 16 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: Will you go back to an interview from the past 17 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: and I pick out my favorite tip from that interview. 18 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: In today's extract, I speak with Kara about what it's 19 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:21,199 Speaker 1: like not to have imposter syndrome and why she thinks 20 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: she never fell victim to it. 21 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 2: I don't have him pastor syndrome. I think I'm great. 22 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 2: I don't know why I am. I mean, when I 23 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 2: do things wrong, I'm like, oh, that sucked. But I 24 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 2: tend not to think that most of the time. I 25 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 2: have a good assessment of my qualities, is what I 26 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,199 Speaker 2: would say. I had an interesting talk with my son. 27 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 2: I talked to my oldest son and I've been talking 28 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 2: a lot lately, which is interesting. He's at NYU for 29 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 2: the first year and we've talked a lot about what 30 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: makes a person like and stuff. And he was, you know, 31 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 2: he was reading me some stuff he wrote, and he's 32 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 2: a beautiful writer. Doesn't believe it, but he's quite a 33 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 2: good writer. And you know, it's so funny because he goes, 34 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 2: he goes, no, I'm not, and I'm like, have I 35 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 2: ever said your go? But it's something when you're not, 36 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 2: And he goes, no, you haven't. I said, so you 37 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 2: must be a good writer, because I wouldn't say so, 38 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 2: I'd say nothing, or I would say it's bad. Probably, 39 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 2: So I tend to be very clear with my feedback. 40 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 2: And I'm good with that myself about myself too. So 41 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 2: if I'm good at something, I say so. If I'm not, 42 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 2: I say so. But when i'm good at I'm quite 43 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 2: good at so, I say that. 44 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: Where did you get that from? I feel like that's 45 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: really unusual, like particularly when we're younger. 46 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 2: Well, I have eyes, I can see. I know if 47 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 2: i'm good. I know if i'm good against other people. 48 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 2: Like I wanted to be an architect, but I was terrible. 49 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 2: I was terrible. I loved it. I love drawing, but 50 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 2: everything I design look like shit. And I was like, 51 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 2: I'm not good at this, Like I just knew it. 52 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 2: I just didn't. And this other girls that next to 53 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 2: me was so good, and I was like, everything she 54 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 2: designs it is beautiful. Like I'm aware of other people 55 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 2: being better at things, even if I wish I were 56 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 2: better at them. I don't know. I'm just truthful about 57 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 2: myself and the things right. And that includes being truthful, 58 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 2: not necessarily in a negative way. It's always done in 59 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 2: a negative way to people. I'm not good at this. 60 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 2: I don't measure up that person's richer. I don't think 61 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 2: like that. I'm like that was good. I make a 62 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 2: lot of money, like you know what I mean, Like 63 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 2: you know, and so it's I'm just I'm just pretty 64 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 2: clear about my capabilities. 65 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: Wow, it's almost like this objective comparison. 66 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 2: Well, I just think, you know, the world tries to 67 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 2: drag down women, you know what I mean, they drag 68 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 2: down people or are marginalized. I think a little bit has 69 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 2: to do with being gay. I guess if I had 70 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: to pick anything, is that. You know, all the messaging 71 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 2: was so negative when I was coming up. When I 72 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 2: was I'm an older person and so it was a 73 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: lot different than it is today. It's not good today either, 74 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 2: by the way, for transport transgender kids right now. I 75 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 2: just was very confident, so you had to be because 76 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 2: there were so many negative images, and I kept thinking, 77 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 2: I'm great, I'm pretty happy, I'm gay, like you know 78 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 2: what I mean, Like I was, it was just like, 79 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 2: that's not true, that's not true. And so I think 80 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 2: that's how I think you get if you have a 81 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 2: lot of incoming in your life and you're able to 82 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 2: fend it off, you feel pretty confident about yourself. 83 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by that. 84 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 2: I don't have. My daughter is really interesting. She's super confident. 85 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 2: She's My sons are wonderful guys. They're older, they're sixteen 86 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 2: and almost almost sixteen, almost nineteen, and my daughter is 87 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 2: one and a half, a little bit over one and 88 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 2: a half, and she's so confident. It's so fascinating to watch. 89 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 2: She just walks through the world, that's right, you know 90 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 2: what I mean? Like, and last night she was just 91 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 2: dancing and just she didn't care, She couldn't care less. 92 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 2: She was like, I'm dancing, That's what I'm doing. And 93 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 2: then I'm going to just throw myself into it. And 94 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 2: so you always wonder what happens to girls. For example, 95 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 2: I was keep going with is because I boys is easy. 96 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 2: They're always confident by the way most of the time, 97 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 2: or the world lets them be confident most of the time. 98 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 2: And I was like, where's the point where they're going 99 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 2: to try to pull down this enormous confidence this little 100 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: girl has, right, what's the moment? And so I want 101 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 2: to watch it really carefully because I don't want her 102 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 2: to let go of it because it's magical. Right, Her 103 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 2: confidence and herself and her abilities is really quite high. 104 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 2: And so where are the little places that, you know, 105 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 2: shave an edge off of her? And I'm not going 106 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 2: to let that happen. I love that because she's going 107 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 2: to do better by staying the way she is, by 108 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 2: having wonder confidence and everything else. And I'm not being 109 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 2: being stupidly dangerous and I want to run down, run 110 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 2: down the steps or anything like that. But but it's 111 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 2: it's an interesting I'm watching. It's going to be interesting 112 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 2: having a daughter over two sons, because sons are all 113 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 2: they're They're always like, I'm great, I'm great. I was like, 114 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 2: you're not so great. Oh, I'm great? Where does that 115 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 2: come from? 116 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed my chat with Kara and maybe 117 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 1: gave you some inspiration for overcoming your own imposter syndrome. 118 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: And hey, if you're not connected with me on the socials, 119 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 1: today is a great day to do that because I 120 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: post a lot of content that might be helpful to you. 121 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,559 Speaker 1: So find me on LinkedIn just search for Amantha Imba. 122 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 1: I think I'm the only Amantha INMBA there. You can 123 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 1: also find me on Instagram at Amantha I and also 124 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Amantha. How I Work is produced by 125 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 1: Inventium with production support from Dead Set Studios, and thank 126 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: you to Matt Nimba, who does the audio mix for 127 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: every episode and makes everything sound amazing. See you next time.