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Speaker 1: We were, of course anticipating an interview with Michael Gunner

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Speaker 1: this morning to go through the finances and work out

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Speaker 1: how the Northern Territory is placed when it comes to

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Speaker 1: those finances. But in a shock, he resigned while delivering

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Speaker 1: the budget, citing family as the reason for his departure

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Speaker 1: from politics. Now joining me on the line is the

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Speaker 1: acting Chief Minister, Nicole Madison. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Katie Minister.

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Speaker 1: Were you as shocked as everyone else by Michael Gunner's resignation.

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Speaker 2: I had a few days to absorb it. Michael had

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Speaker 2: made his decision and he let me know a few

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Speaker 2: days ahead because I had to be prepared to be

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Speaker 2: able to come in and do some of the parliament work.

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Speaker 2: You know. I could see for a while now that

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Speaker 2: he was doing what so many of us do, which

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Speaker 2: is grappling with the life of being a parent but

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Speaker 2: also having to work in a really challenging job. And

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Speaker 2: I completely respect Michael's decision. I think Michael has been

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Speaker 2: an extraord ordinary, outstanding, transformative Chief Minister for the almost

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Speaker 2: six years he's served in that job. He's done an

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Speaker 2: amazing job. They are a pandemic through an economic transition,

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Speaker 2: and he has delivered a great budget yesterday, and he's

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Speaker 2: leaving behind a great legacy of really important social change

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Speaker 2: for the territory so our kids will have a better life,

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Speaker 2: but also transforming the economy so it's more diversified, there

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Speaker 2: are more jobs and will have less boom and bus cycles.

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Speaker 1: Well, look job, I know there'll be some Territorians who

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Speaker 1: don't necessarily agree, as you've pointed out, though he has

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Speaker 1: cited family as the reason for his departure. But the

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Speaker 1: independent member for Ara Lun yesterday dropped a bombshell. She

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Speaker 1: says she's referred to a gunner to the IYEKAC number

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Speaker 1: of weeks ago and that he's being investigated. Is this

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Speaker 1: the real reason for the resignation?

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Speaker 2: Total garbage. It had absolutely nothing to do with it.

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Speaker 3: So is there an investigation into his travel?

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Speaker 1: Is there an investigation into his travel during the election

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Speaker 1: campaign and possible breaches?

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Speaker 2: He was asked that question yesterday. He was not aware

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Speaker 2: of those investigations, But you know that's not to say

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Speaker 2: what's happening. The IKAC can look into whatever it wants,

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Speaker 2: but he certainly hadn't received notification of that.

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Speaker 1: So while he may not have received notification of that.

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Speaker 1: You're you're not ruling out that the IKAK could be

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Speaker 1: investigating that, Katie.

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Speaker 2: On any given day. I can't tell you what the

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Speaker 2: ikac's looking at. We set them up to be fully

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Speaker 2: independent of government and to do their job that way.

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Speaker 1: So is there a situation here though that it's not

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Speaker 1: as clear cut as him standing aside due to those

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Speaker 1: family reasons.

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Speaker 2: No, Katie, and I'm really disappointed that the member of

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Speaker 2: our len's taking this tax because Michael gave a very genuine, deep,

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Speaker 2: honest view and reasons for why he was leaving yesterday.

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Speaker 2: I think you if you'd seen it, you'd see that

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Speaker 2: it was a very emotional day for him, for all

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Speaker 2: of us as a team, because they're a really close knit,

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Speaker 2: tight group team of work colleagues but also friends. And

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Speaker 2: he outlines his reasons for why he was finishing up

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Speaker 2: as the chief Minister very clearly to everybody, and anybody

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Speaker 2: who saw that would have seen how honest and genuine

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Speaker 2: that was.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, I did watch it.

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Speaker 1: We will catch up with the independent member for our

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Speaker 1: lun Robin Lamley, at about nine point thirty this morning

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Speaker 1: and find out a little bit more from her perspective.

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Speaker 1: But Minister, we do know that the understanding, or certainly

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Speaker 1: my understanding at the moment is the process now for

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Speaker 1: the Labor Caucus is that they'll meet on Friday and

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Speaker 1: vote on a new leader.

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Speaker 3: Will you be putting your hand up for the top job?

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Speaker 2: We're going to meet on Friday. We're going to have

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Speaker 2: those discussions about who we think's best place to lead

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Speaker 2: the territory going forward as the Chief Minister and to

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Speaker 2: make sure we continue the great work and the foundations

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Speaker 2: that Michael has laid. I'm not going to be speculating

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Speaker 2: on who's putting their hand up on Friday, because that's

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Speaker 2: a matter for caucus. And on Friday, though, we will

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Speaker 2: have a new Chief Minister and they will go forward

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Speaker 2: and they're going to do a great job leading this

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Speaker 2: team and making sure we keep delivering for territories.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, you may not want to speculate, but I'm

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Speaker 1: still going to ask who do you think should take

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Speaker 1: the top job.

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Speaker 2: It's a matter for our caucus to discuss, and we'll

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Speaker 2: be coming out of that meeting on Friday with a

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Speaker 2: new Chief Minister.

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Speaker 1: It should be a yes or no question, though, whether

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Speaker 1: you want to put your hand up or not.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's something for Caucus to discuss, Katie.

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Speaker 2: And right now we're all focused on getting through another

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Speaker 2: two days of Parliament of making sure that we're delivering

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Speaker 2: for Territorians, and on Friday we'll have a decision on

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Speaker 2: who the Chief Minister will be.

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Speaker 1: Don't you reckon though, that Territorians have a right to

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Speaker 1: sort of have a bit of an understanding who's going

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Speaker 1: to step into the role. I mean, when they went

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Speaker 1: to vote, their understanding was that the Chief Minister would

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Speaker 1: remain the Chief Minister. So don't you reckon that they

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Speaker 1: have the right to have a bit of an understanding

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Speaker 1: of who Labor is proposing.

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Speaker 2: Well, Katie, I think we've got an absolutely outstanding team

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Speaker 2: and I have no doubt that we're going to have

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Speaker 2: a fantastic chief Minister going for and right now our feltus,

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Speaker 2: like I said, is delivering for Territorians. We've got another

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Speaker 2: two busy days in Parliament and that's where our focus is.

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Speaker 2: And on Friday we'll meet and determine who the next

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Speaker 2: Chief Minister will be.

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Speaker 1: All Right, the pundits are certainly saying and speculating that

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Speaker 1: it could be you, Natasha Files even Joel Bowden. I mean,

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Speaker 1: could we realistically be in a situation here where a

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Speaker 1: backbencher takes the top job.

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Speaker 2: Katie, there's going to be a caucus meeting on Friday.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to be giving you the same answer, and

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Speaker 2: then we'll come out of that with the new chief minister.

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Speaker 1: Is there going to be a jostling here though, between

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Speaker 1: the left and the right side of the Labor Party

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Speaker 1: as to who winds up in the top job in a.

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Speaker 2: Small jurisdiction like the Northern Territory, Unlike some of the

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Speaker 2: big jurisdictions in Federal Parliament. People could be member of factions,

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Speaker 2: but ultimately decision making within the caucuses not run down

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Speaker 2: factional lines. That's something where where we're all caucus members

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Speaker 2: and we work as a very.

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Speaker 1: Close knit Is it a worry though, if the caucus

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Speaker 1: can't decide on Friday and it winds up in a

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Speaker 1: situation where the party has to go to a vote

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Speaker 1: and potentially we don't know for a month who's going

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Speaker 1: to be the Chief Minister of the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: You know, if the caucus will be walking out with

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Speaker 2: the new chief minister come Friday. And again, like I said,

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Speaker 2: we've got a lot of work to do between now

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Speaker 2: and Friday. But on Friday we'll come together and we'll

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Speaker 2: determine the new Chief Minister.

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Speaker 3: Lots of phone calls, hey mano.

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Speaker 2: It's always a busy week in parliament, Katie and.

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Speaker 3: On the phones to work out who's going to be

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Speaker 3: the next leader.

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Speaker 2: Always a busy week in parliament. And but you know,

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Speaker 2: really going back in a more serious note again, like

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Speaker 2: it was, I want to say a big thank you

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Speaker 2: to Michael on behalf of the team. But I think

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Speaker 2: also the territory. He's done a great job and you

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Speaker 2: know it's a big change and we just wish him

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Speaker 2: and Christy and the kids well for the future ahead

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Speaker 2: and know that the people of Fanny Bay will be

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Speaker 2: looking forward to seeing him a lot more around the electorate.

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Speaker 1: Now. Look, I know that obviously you are a close

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Speaker 1: knit team. Do you think though, that it's time for

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Speaker 1: a fresh start here? I guess no matter what you

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Speaker 1: guys want to believe, crime has been a massive issue

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Speaker 1: for Territorians. The government has been dogged by accusations of

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Speaker 1: no longer being open and transparent. There is indeed an

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Speaker 1: ICAC investigation underway around the role case, do you think

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Speaker 1: that the party actually needs to go with someone entirely

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Speaker 1: new and have a clean out.

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Speaker 2: I think we've got an amazing team. Everybody's really dedicated

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Speaker 2: to their electorates and they're dedicated to the territory, and

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Speaker 2: we've all got a great vision for this place and

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Speaker 2: we will want to make it a better place. So

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Speaker 2: no need for a cleaner and being the chief Minister.

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Speaker 2: I think we'll do an outstanding job. But Katie, I

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Speaker 2: back in this team every day because I get to

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Speaker 2: work with these people and I know how hard they

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Speaker 2: work each and every day to serve the territory and

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Speaker 2: to tackle the hard issues.

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Speaker 1: So from your perspective, it wouldn't matter who ends up

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister from that team that you've got currently,

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Speaker 1: you feel that they'll do a good job.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, we've got a great team and I'm really proud

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Speaker 2: of each every one of them. It's a real it's

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Speaker 2: a wonderful experience to get to go to work with

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Speaker 2: these people every day because I see their deep commitment

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Speaker 2: to making the territory a better place.

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Speaker 1: Look, if that team is so tight knit, why didn't

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Speaker 1: he tell everyone at the same time that he was

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Speaker 1: standing down.

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Speaker 2: Michael had a lot of people to talk to, and

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Speaker 2: he went about doing it as swiftly as he could.

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Speaker 2: You know, he went about having those conversations as quickly

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Speaker 2: as he could. And now she can appreciate it. You know,

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Speaker 2: it was it was. I mean, it was a real

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Speaker 2: shock and.

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Speaker 3: It is well.

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Speaker 1: And look for a lot of people, they're wondering why

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Speaker 1: on earth had happened in the middle of a federal

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Speaker 1: election campaign as well.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think Michael made his reasons very clear, you know, yesterday,

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Speaker 2: and anybody he needs to see those reasons should go

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Speaker 2: back and have a look at his speech and his

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Speaker 2: press conference, and he was very clear.

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Speaker 1: Look, I guess we all understand that you and I

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Speaker 1: have both got young family. I know the Opposition leader

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Speaker 1: Leafanocchiaro has got a young family, as does the Health Minister,

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Speaker 1: as does Lauren Moss, as does a lot of you know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the members of Parliament. So I think

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Speaker 1: we can all understand that that life is an absolute juggle.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it's like to be the chief Minister,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of people are questioning why he made

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Speaker 1: that decision right in the middle of a federal election

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Speaker 1: campaign and win handing down the budget.

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Speaker 2: Katie, he's given almost six years of debt cases, hard

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Speaker 2: work to serving the Northern Territory and he's made a

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Speaker 2: determination that he wasn't able to give one hundred percent anymore.

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Speaker 2: And what has he done. I think he's done the

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Speaker 2: most honorable thing, which is he's stepped aside. So I

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Speaker 2: just say all the best to Michael and thank you

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Speaker 2: for your service, because he has been amazing.

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Speaker 3: All right, let's move along and talk about that budget.

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Speaker 1: We know the Northern Territory is expected to return to

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Speaker 1: surplus earlier than previously forecast. However, debt levels will continue

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Speaker 1: to grow before then. The deficit for the upcoming fin

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Speaker 1: financial year will be one point one billion dollars, with

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Speaker 1: no surpluses expected until at least twenty twenty six. Net

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Speaker 1: debt is going to reach nine point three billion dollars

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Speaker 1: by twenty twenty five. It's an improvement of one point

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Speaker 1: four to five billion on previous four casts.

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Speaker 3: Minister.

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Speaker 1: Is the reason for the better than expected out look

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Speaker 1: the boost to the GST.

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Speaker 2: There are a lot more reasons for it than just that, Katie.

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Speaker 2: We've seen a lot of work to expand our economy,

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Speaker 2: to grow more jobs. We've seen a lot of work

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Speaker 2: done to restrain government expenditure and to pull it in.

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Speaker 2: We've made some hard decisions there, but also we've done

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Speaker 2: a lot of work around budget repaired to so these

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Speaker 2: things stay add up over time as we said they would,

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Speaker 2: and that's why the Chief Minister was able to deliver

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Speaker 2: a fantastic budget for the territory that's going to help

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Speaker 2: create new jobs, it's going to deliver the services that

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Speaker 2: territorians need, it's going to make sure we keep living

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Speaker 2: a fantastic lifestyle here, and it's going to always ensure

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Speaker 2: that we are tackling the challenges that we have out there.

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Speaker 3: So how much money has been saved by rating it in.

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Speaker 2: We've seen significant reductions in the expenditure growth, but when

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Speaker 2: you have a look at the forward estimates there, for example,

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Speaker 2: in the fiscal balance, we've seen a one point one

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Speaker 2: billion dollar saving over the next four years. We've seen

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Speaker 2: the debts that will forecast come down significantly. But most importantly,

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Speaker 2: we can see a budget where the general government sector

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Speaker 2: will return to surplus in twenty four to twenty five

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Speaker 2: and the fiscal balance will return to surplus in twenty

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Speaker 2: six twenty seven, So that is a very very good budget.

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Speaker 2: And this does not include the forty billion dollars worth

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Speaker 2: of pipeline projects that are out there, things like sun Cable, Our,

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Speaker 2: a fewer resources TNNG, some of the gas projects out

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Speaker 2: in the Beaterloo. It doesn't include those things because we

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Speaker 2: don't bring them in until they get final investment decision.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't include middle arms. So the future is just incredibly.

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Speaker 3: Bright, Minister.

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Speaker 1: The opposition reckons that Territorians face the highest cost of

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Speaker 1: living pressures, which are set to rise by five point

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Speaker 1: seven percent this year. There is an additional one point

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Speaker 1: one billion added to the credit card this year compared

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Speaker 1: to twenty twenty one to twenty two. They say that

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Speaker 1: Territorians are paying one million dollars per day in interest

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Speaker 1: only repayments and our debt per territory and is now

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Speaker 1: at thirty six thousand dollars. Do you feel as though

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Speaker 1: enough as being done to rain in that spending.

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Speaker 2: There has been a huge amount of work to get

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Speaker 2: the balance right where we have rained in expenditure. We've

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Speaker 2: got far better processes around budget management across government. But

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Speaker 2: we'll also made sure we keep investing in the things

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Speaker 2: that grow the economy and grow a more stable budget

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Speaker 2: and get more revenue into the Northern territory. So we

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Speaker 2: have been investing in in the areas that we know

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Speaker 2: will create jobs, new industry and actually boost the economy

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Speaker 2: for everyone. Acros, Mordan, Teria.

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Speaker 3: Now what's happening.

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Speaker 2: What is important that you do do that?

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Speaker 1: What is happening with departments who go over budget? Because

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Speaker 1: Gunner had said that heads would roll, some of those

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Speaker 1: departments have gone over budget, are heads rolling.

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Speaker 2: So we have got a very important process in place

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Speaker 2: when it comes to working with the chief executives around

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Speaker 2: each department around their budget ballcast and their expenditure. And

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Speaker 2: it's important to recognize, Katie, we've also got another two

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Speaker 2: months left of the financial.

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Speaker 3: Year to go, but so they could roll by then.

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Speaker 2: Executives, we mergally meet with the chief executives and we

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Speaker 2: have a look at the expenditure and if there are

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Speaker 2: some that are rolling over and we make sure we

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Speaker 2: scrutinize what those reasons are and if there were areas

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Speaker 2: where we think that they can make savings, they have

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Speaker 2: been instructed to go do so.

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Speaker 1: I mean, really, it doesn't sound it sounds like a

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Speaker 1: pretty you know, pretty loose threat. I mean, the Chief

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Speaker 1: Minister had previously said that they were on notice, but

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Speaker 1: from what you're saying now, it sounds like they're on notice.

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Speaker 2: They are on notice and to the financial work to

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Speaker 2: work through it. And there is a hell of a

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Speaker 2: lot more scrutiny on those hard working chief executives and

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Speaker 2: their budget expenditure than what they used to be Katie.

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Speaker 2: We've made some big changes there. It is taken very seriously.

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Speaker 3: And so what's going to happen if they are still

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Speaker 3: over budget?

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Speaker 2: So there are rafter different processes in place where we

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Speaker 2: work with that chief executives to understand the reasons and

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Speaker 2: to make sure that if we think that they can

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Speaker 2: be saving, found they are. And if a chief executive

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Speaker 2: is not going to follow this, if they're going to

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Speaker 2: blatantly overspend, then they won't have a job. It's that simple.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: I know that one of the other issues that we've

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Speaker 1: seen Industrial action taken on over the last couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks is this public service wage freeze for some of

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Speaker 1: those for some of those different different areas or different

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Speaker 1: different unions. That doesn't seem as though it's going to

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Speaker 1: change at this point in time.

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Speaker 3: The Chief Minister.

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Speaker 1: Well, the former Chief Minister Michael Gunner had said when

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Speaker 1: handing down the budget, they that you weren't in a

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Speaker 1: position at this point in time to stop that wage freeze,

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Speaker 1: but down the track the decision could be reversed if

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Speaker 1: you become the Chief Minister.

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Speaker 3: Will you reverse that decision?

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Speaker 2: I'm not speaking hypotheticals, Katie. What I will say is

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Speaker 2: that the reason why we have been able to deliver

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Speaker 2: a really strong budget has been because of the tough

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Speaker 2: decisions we have made as a government to rain in

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Speaker 2: expenditure and that wages policy was a very difficult decision

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Speaker 2: and we're still working through it with our unions. If

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Speaker 2: our budget position improves into the future, then of course

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Speaker 2: yes we want to go see how we can work

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Speaker 2: with those unions going forward about public sector wages. But

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Speaker 2: right now we've been showing the discipline that was required

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Speaker 2: to do budget repair and that's why you can see

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Speaker 2: a budget returning to surplus. Katie.

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Speaker 1: All right, Minister. Before we wrap up this morning, I

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Speaker 1: do want to ask you. We know the Opposition set

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Speaker 1: to introduce legislation around mandatory sentences for those who assault

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Speaker 1: frontline workers. Will you be supporting this legislation.

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Speaker 2: We're looking into their legislation, but frankly, from the briefing

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Speaker 2: I received the other day, it seems to be window dressing.

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Speaker 2: It's not actually aimed to really stop some of this offending,

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Speaker 2: and it looks like it's a political stunt to me.

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Speaker 3: So in what way is it window dressing or what

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Speaker 3: are your concerns.

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Speaker 2: We've got very tough mandatory sentencing provisions in place that

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Speaker 2: are sending people to jail if they assault our workers.

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Speaker 2: We literally have window dressing here that's meant to be

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Speaker 2: just sending people to a rising of the court. That

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Speaker 2: is all they're trying to do at this point, and

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Speaker 2: that was how it's explained to me the other day.

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Speaker 1: Well, no doubt we'll hear more about that throughout the

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Speaker 1: next couple well, the next year, next two weeks of

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Speaker 1: Parliament sitting. Nicole Madison, the acting Chief Minister, We're fascinated

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Speaker 1: to see what happens on Friday.

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Speaker 3: We will talk to you again soon.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Katie, Thank you