1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: It's been an incredibly busy start to the year four Corrections. 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: As we know. Last month, Alice Springs Correctional officers suffered 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: minor injuries and two prisoners were taken to hospital after 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: what was described as a riot in a maximum security facility. 5 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: At the time, Corrections said no officers were significantly injured 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: during that incident that involved around twenty seven prisoners. Meanwhile, 7 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: prisoners were reportedly busted hiding in the ceiling during a 8 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: foiled attempt to escape the Alice Springs Correction Center on 9 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: Boxing Day. Now. The United Workers Union said at the 10 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,599 Speaker 1: time that sixteen prisoners attempted to escape from Alice Springs 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: Correctional Center. Joining me in the studio to talk more 12 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: about how things are tracking is the Northern Territory Corrections 13 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: Commissioner Matthew Varley. Good morning to you. Good morning, Katie, Commissioner. 14 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time this morning. I appreciate 15 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: you joining us in the studio. Now, how have things 16 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: been tracking since the highly publicized incidents. I guess right 17 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: at the end of last year early this year. 18 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, kay, there's no doubt we've had our hands full 19 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: literally this year, and a busy start to the year. 20 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 2: We're working hard on the ground every day and our 21 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 2: officers are doing a fabulous job, no doubt. We've had 22 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 2: those issues early in the year in our springs that 23 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 2: you've just described, but our prisons are under pressure, but 24 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 2: our officers are doing a fine job. We had those 25 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,839 Speaker 2: incidents that occurred, as you say, a couple of months, 26 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago. We're working hard to understand 27 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 2: what occurred there. Our intelligence and security folk constantly review 28 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 2: the safety and security of those prisons. They do a 29 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 2: cracking job, and investigations underway in relation to that incident. 30 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 2: But you know, our officers did what they do best 31 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 2: and they respond to that emergency. They quelled it within 32 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 2: about an hour, and from that, you know, further actions follow. 33 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 2: Of course, we refer matters to police, but also there 34 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 2: are immediate disciplinary sanctions under our system for those prisoners involved. 35 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: Yeah right, So do you suspect that there could be 36 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: any charges. 37 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 2: Late, Well, we gather evidence, obviously, we look at statements 38 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 2: from officers, WI CCTV footage to police. Now the charges 39 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: and the investigation isn't matter for them, no doubt. They've 40 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 2: got their hands full too with plenty of other things. 41 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 2: But you know, there's a I guess a parallel process 42 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 2: that occurs, Katie, and that is we have a misconducts 43 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 2: and disciplinary system in the prison. Officers can put prisoners 44 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: on what we call intensive management plans that restricts certain 45 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 2: privileges that they have in the system, and then they 46 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 2: can also be put before a disciplinary tribunal if you like, 47 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,519 Speaker 2: in the prison system. That's quite separate to any other 48 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 2: action police might take. 49 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: Well and needed, I would suspect, because you want to 50 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: make sure as well, when you have got prisoners in 51 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: your care, that they understand that there's rules and regulations 52 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 1: in place, and that if they're not adhering to them, 53 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: that there's going to be consequences to that action. 54 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. 55 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 2: I mean it wouldn't surprise most people listening, Katie, that 56 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 2: a lot of people don't like being in prison, right 57 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 2: and our job is to make sure that we treat 58 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 2: them fairly and squarely. But there are rules and there 59 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 2: are consequences, and our officers enforce the safety and security 60 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 2: of those blocks every day. 61 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 3: Now. 62 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: From time to time, no doubt, things can bubble up 63 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 2: and tensions flair, and our officers respond accordingly. 64 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 3: But you know. That's why we're constantly. 65 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 2: Reviewing our emergency and safety and security procedures. We're looking 66 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 2: at our upgrading equipment and training. And that's why I 67 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: commissioned that immediate security review into G Block in Alice Springs, 68 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 2: you know, because there are infrastructure improvements we potentially can 69 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 2: make to make sure these things are better. 70 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: So where's that review at? Has there been any sort 71 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,519 Speaker 1: of outcomes that you've been able to act upon? 72 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 2: So we have immediately made some adjustments to locks and 73 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 2: doors in Alice Springs, and obviously welding repairs are made 74 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 2: to the breaches that occurred, and those dorms are back 75 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 2: in action. But we had the very week that that 76 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 2: incident occurred, I asked for specialist engineers and architects to 77 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: come to Alice Springs. 78 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 3: I met them there. 79 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: We walked through G Block for hours, and they've taken 80 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: a tape measure to the place, and we are waiting 81 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 2: on a specialist engineering report to come through to Dipple 82 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: and from that, I'll be putting recommendations to government for upgrades. Yeah. 83 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: Right, so there will be some upgrades. I mean, I 84 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: guess too early to tell how much that might cost 85 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: or how long it might take. 86 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 2: Well, I anticipate that it will be a sizable works program, 87 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 2: but obviously I've got to take those options to the 88 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 2: Minister and to government. I have been briefed on some 89 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 2: of the preliminary findings. And let's remember, Katie, that this 90 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 2: is a prison that was built in the nineteen nineties, right, 91 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 2: So yes, there's always improvements in not only building standards 92 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 2: and infrastructure, but technology and best practice around custodial lops 93 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 2: around the country that we look at, and that's why 94 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 2: I brought those specialist engineers in. But you know, I 95 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 2: think there's a lot of improvements we can make in 96 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 2: our springs and those are the conversations I'm having with 97 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 2: government at the moment. 98 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: And so at this point in time, where are those 99 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: plans out there at the conversations part? 100 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 3: No? No. I expect to receive. 101 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: The report from Dipple and the engineers this month, and 102 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,359 Speaker 2: then obviously from that, I'll meet with my folk and 103 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 2: our specialists and we'll work out what are the best 104 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 2: options to put forward to government. But I anticipate that 105 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 2: I'll be able to take a package of submissions to government, 106 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 2: you know, in the next few weeks. 107 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: And so how soon could that work get underway. 108 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 2: Well, obviously you've got to work through the design works 109 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 2: if there are immediate things that we can do. And 110 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 2: I might add also, Katie, we've got stuff already in 111 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,359 Speaker 2: training Alice Springs. You know, we've had design works underway 112 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 2: for improvements to offices posts down there. We've had we've 113 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 2: got plans to upgrade the front gatehouse entry to make 114 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 2: sure that's better, modern, safe, secure, and we're already working 115 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 2: on some plans to provide refurbishment to some blocks. So 116 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 2: I anticipate that some of those works can commence, you know, 117 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 2: from this financial year coming. But you know, we've also 118 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 2: got those modular constructions online coming in Alice Springs and 119 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 2: they're being delivered as we speak. 120 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: Okay, so how soon are they going to be and running? 121 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 2: I hope they'll be online KDI by midyear. I'm targeting 122 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 2: June July. And that's a ninety six bed brand new 123 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 2: medium rated security facility. So these and I want to 124 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 2: go on the record here and say these are not 125 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 2: dongas I've heard that word used quite a bit. These 126 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 2: are specialized prison cells manufactured by New South Wales Corrections. 127 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: They've been successfully rolled out across that state and that's 128 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 2: what we're doing here. 129 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, we actually ended up catching up with New South 130 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: Wales Corrections and speaking about it, and it sounds like 131 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: a really good program, you know. It sounds like a 132 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: great thing to be engaging those prisoners in New South 133 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: Wales to do that work. And from what he'd said, 134 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,679 Speaker 1: these have been operational in New South Wales as well 135 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 1: at different facilities for quite some time, or a similar 136 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: sort of you know, a similar sort of building, So 137 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:47,919 Speaker 1: it does sound like it's a good thing, Commissioner, I 138 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: do want to ask, I mean, the way in which 139 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: the other Springs facility is right now, is it safe 140 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: for staff, correction staff and for prisoners. 141 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 2: It is as safe and secure as we make prisons 142 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 2: every day, Katie and I meet with the unions, I 143 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 2: meet with our staff. I talked to our managers all 144 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: the time I was down there, I think maybe ten 145 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 2: twelve days ago, and I'm going down again next week. 146 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: The safety and security of our facilities is my job, 147 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 2: it's the job of our senior folk. And I met 148 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 2: with the unions only last week, and I'm meeting with 149 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 2: more of our union reps again next week. So we're 150 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 2: listening We're working hard, and I take the safety and 151 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: security of those prisons very seriously and the staff as 152 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 2: my number one priority. But where there are ways we 153 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: can improve our tactics, our tools, our technology, that's my 154 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 2: job and that's what we're doing now. 155 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: Talk me through the prison numbers at the moment. Just 156 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: how full are our facilities across the. 157 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 2: Territory, Katie. We are full, there's no doubt about that. 158 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 3: Today. 159 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 2: We have about two two hundred and fifty prisoners in custody. 160 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 2: We have set expanded operational capacity limits for our facilities 161 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 2: and I won't exceed those, and that's why we're managing 162 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 2: some of those new infrastructure projects, and that's why we 163 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 2: do have prisoners in temporary holding facilities in some of 164 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 2: those watch houses that I've spoken about before. 165 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: So when you say that these numbers that you won't exceed, 166 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: what are those numbers and why. 167 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 2: Well, for example, in Alice Springs, it's six hundred and 168 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 2: eighty prisoners. So we have done the work with our 169 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 2: I guess, our folk, our staff, our security specialists, our 170 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: management team to work through what we think is the 171 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 2: appropriate operating capacity for that prison with the infrastructure we 172 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 2: have and the staff we need to do the job. 173 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 2: So we've said that's six hundred and eighty. For Alice 174 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 2: Springs in Darwin, it's thirteen seventy three, and then we 175 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 2: have those additional watchouse facilities. But I've been quite clear 176 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 2: that you can't just keep loading in people on top 177 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 2: of people. We have a responsibility under the law to 178 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,559 Speaker 2: make sure that those facilities are safe, secure and humane. 179 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: Commissioner. I'm sure there'll be people listening though, thinking does 180 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: it mean that we've got people who should be in 181 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: prison who aren't well. 182 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 2: My job is to make sure I've got the capacity 183 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 2: to take the people in the custody that the courts 184 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 2: send us. I don't get to decide who comes to jail, 185 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 2: of course, that's the decision for courts and others, and 186 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 2: we work very closely with the court system. We work 187 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 2: very closely with police. If a police are out there 188 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 2: doing their job, and I'm sure they work bloody hard 189 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 2: for the community every day, you know where they're to 190 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: back them up as best we can. But our job 191 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 2: is to make sure we're building that new capacity. That's 192 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 2: what we're doing. We've got the ninety six beds coming 193 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 2: a line midyear. We're commissioning another sixty four bed low 194 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 2: security facility in Darwin. And let's not forget too, Katie. 195 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: In the past year we've had some great success opening 196 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 2: up those bail support accommodation facilities with the Salvation Army. 197 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,119 Speaker 1: Can you tell me in terms of that prison population 198 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: and you know, just how many prisoners you're managing. How 199 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: many people have you got like in each cell? 200 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 2: Well, it varies, Katie, from you know, we have a 201 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 2: range of cells of course, because we have to manage 202 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 2: different behaviors and different security classification. So we have everything 203 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 2: from high risk single cells right through dormitories and some 204 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 2: of our larger dormitories can occupy up to sixteen people. 205 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 2: But those are large rooms with bunk beds built in 206 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 2: and you know, shared bathrooms and those sorts of things, 207 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 2: but all of them at different grades of security combined 208 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 2: to make the system work. 209 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: Now, can you talk me through with the watchhouses that 210 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: are being used at the moment. Is that just the 211 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: watchhouse here in Darwen that's being utilized about at Peter McCauley. 212 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 2: We have two in Darwin, Katie. One is the Darwin 213 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 2: City Watchhouse. We've been in there for I think about 214 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 2: nine ten months now. I'd like to not be in there, 215 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:46,439 Speaker 2: but we're managing that facility as a forty bed secure facility. 216 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 2: It's on fortnightly rotations and we move our prisoners through there. 217 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 2: They're all sentenced prisoners in that facility, and we're also 218 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 2: occupying a specialized small watchhouse at Peter McCauley, which has 219 00:10:57,960 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 2: got fourteen in it. 220 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: Fourteen so you know, it must be difficult there managing 221 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: prisoners and managing staff at those two facilities that really 222 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: are not made for long term sort of, you know, 223 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: to hold people their long term. How long are they 224 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: staying there? 225 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 2: Well, as I said, our protocol that we've put in 226 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 2: place is two weeks as a cycle, but the general 227 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 2: manager of Darwin can review that and a person can 228 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 2: be cycled through there several. 229 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 3: Times if that's needed. 230 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 2: We actually, it might surprise you, Katie, but we have 231 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 2: some people who volunteer to go there. Yeah right, yeah, 232 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 2: And these are sentenced prisoners who serve their time and 233 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 2: so perhaps sometimes a change of scenery is not a 234 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 2: bad thing. 235 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 3: But we have. 236 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 2: Done some works to make sure those facilities are okay 237 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: for our use. We've added in some exercise equipment into 238 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 2: the watchhouses. 239 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 3: Both have a yard where people can get fresh air. 240 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, so you've actually had to change, like change 241 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: the watch houses up a bit. 242 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we've installed you know, simple things like televisions 243 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 2: and DVD machines and stuff. So you know, our job 244 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 2: is to make sure people serve their time and we 245 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 2: manage them safely and securely. But of course I often say, Katie, 246 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:06,839 Speaker 2: you know, all of the services you can think of 247 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 2: that we need to provide to humans. 248 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 3: We provide. 249 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 2: So whether that's health, education, wellbeing, visits with family and lawyers. 250 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 2: There's a complex machine that operates every day. 251 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: Now, tell me in terms of prisoners on remand have 252 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: we got a lot of prisoners at our facilities that 253 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 1: are on Remand we do, and. 254 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 2: It's about forty five percent, Katie, our total population, and 255 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 2: that's been growing over the last twelve to twenty four months, 256 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 2: and that's probably the primary. 257 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 3: Driver of our overall growth. We're not alone in that challenge. 258 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 2: Other jurisdictions are experiencing some similar pressures post COVID, and 259 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 2: I think in a few years time people will do 260 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 2: studies on why that is. But at the end of 261 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 2: the day, yes, we run a prison system that's a 262 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,839 Speaker 2: mix of remand and sentence. Today in the territory, we've 263 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 2: probably got over about nine hundred people on remand. 264 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: That is a lot, like it's an awful lot, and 265 00:12:57,720 --> 00:12:59,599 Speaker 1: it sort of indicates to me, and please correct me 266 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: if i'm but indicates to me that you've got people 267 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: that are waiting long periods of time to go through 268 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: the court system. 269 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 2: Well, yes, and I guess that's the purpose of remand, right. So, 270 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 2: depending on the decisions of the judge, and of course 271 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 2: bail laws and other things, judges make decision about who 272 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 2: should or shouldn't be in the community on bail or 273 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 2: there should be in remand. And the average time for 274 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 2: us spent on remand for a prisoners around about one 275 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 2: hundred and forty days, depending on the type of charges 276 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 2: that they're they're facing, you know, local court, Supreme Court, 277 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 2: those sorts of things. But at the end of the day, 278 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 2: I think it shows that, you know, there are a 279 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 2: lot of people in custody awaiting their court appearance, and 280 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,959 Speaker 2: that probably indicates some of the challenges facing court prosecutions and. 281 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 3: Police as well. 282 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, look, it does seem that way, and I know 283 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: that there had sort of been discussion about there being 284 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: quite long delays for people to be able to go 285 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: through you know, the court system. But forty five percent 286 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: of you know, of the people that are in our 287 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: jails on remand it's like it's a big number. 288 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And it's a challenge because remand prisoners have 289 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 2: different needs and we have different responsibilities of course, and 290 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 2: it's an indefinite amount of time, so our officers manage 291 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 2: you know, I would say between fifty to one hundred 292 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 2: different types of court appearances probably every day. We have 293 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 2: every day at both prisons video links operating to courts. 294 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 2: We send prisoners to court, both local and supreme every day, 295 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 2: and of course that's a huge logistical exercise, so it's 296 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 2: not just about locking prisoners in cells. We've got to 297 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 2: get lawyers to visit their clients and all sorts of things. 298 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: Now in terms of and look, this may be a 299 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: question that's better directed at the Northern Territory Police, but 300 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: I'll ask and you know, feel free to direct me 301 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: to them. But we are being told that there's a 302 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: backlog of arrest warrants that police can't actually action because 303 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: there's no room in the prisons to be able to 304 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: send people there. 305 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 2: Well, I guess you would have to ask police about 306 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 2: their back local warrants. I'm not privy to the systems 307 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 2: that they operate, but I guess at the end of 308 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 2: the day, if police arrest people and put them before 309 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 2: the court, ultimately the court makes a decision on whether 310 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 2: they come to custody or not, and then we manage 311 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 2: that as best we can. I am liaising relatively regularly 312 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 2: with police. I was only speaking to the Deputy Commissioner 313 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 2: this week. We speak often and we're supporting each other 314 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 2: where we can. You know, police have got their hands full, 315 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 2: so do we, and we make sure we swap notes 316 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 2: a lot. 317 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: Do you think that there would be any situations where, 318 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: you know, where people are going before the court and 319 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: they're maybe not being sent to you know, not being 320 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: sentenced to prison because there isn't. 321 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 3: Root Look, I don't know, Katie. 322 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 2: You'd have to ask courts those questions, of course, because 323 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 2: there's quite a complexity as to what a judge takes 324 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 2: into consideration when they make a decision of what to 325 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 2: do with a person. Right there's lawyers who argue those 326 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 2: things out at court, and you know we've had, as 327 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 2: a said earlier, creation of the new BAO supported Accommodation 328 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 2: facility in Darwin and Ala Springs. That's a fantastic solution 329 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 2: with the Salvation Army, and it gives judges another option 330 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 2: to remind people to you know, if someone needs to 331 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 2: be put into some supervision but may not necessarily be 332 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 2: needing to go to jail and they just need a 333 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 2: place to stay, then the Salvos have got eighty odd 334 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 2: beds available for us that we're managing at the moment, 335 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 2: and we've had I think, Katie, some one hundred and 336 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 2: sixty one hundred and seventy people through that service in 337 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 2: the past six to eight months. So again it's about 338 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 2: providing different options for the justice system. 339 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: Absolutely, Hey, staffing levels, how's your staffing, how's your recruitment going? 340 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: It sounds like you need those staff You need some 341 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: wonderful people in there working, which I know you've got. 342 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, Katie, we're working really hard on recruitment. I think 343 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 2: since last we spoke, we've recruited probably one hundred and 344 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 2: fifty odd new correctional officers and maybe at least thirty 345 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 2: to forty new specialized staff, including community corrections folk specialized clinicians. 346 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 2: Today Corrections is an organization of well over one thousand people. 347 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 3: I think we're about oney twenty. We're still recruiting hard. 348 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 2: We've got about thirty odd recruits in training right now. 349 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 2: We've graduated fourteen more only a couple of weeks ago 350 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 2: in National Corrections Day in January. And you know, I'm 351 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 2: really pleased that we're seeing some growth in our recruitment. 352 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 2: We're actually attracting a lot more experienced correctional officers from 353 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 2: other jurisdictions, about from New Zealand in particular. We've gone 354 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,360 Speaker 2: fishing in their pond, to be honest, and we've made 355 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 2: some genuine offers and people are starting to take up 356 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 2: that opportunity. And I think in two weeks time we've 357 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 2: got another eighteen nineteen experienced officers commencing in our springs. 358 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 2: So we're really starting to see some traction on that recruitment. 359 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 2: And anyone who wants to come to the territory and 360 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 2: be a corrections officer, we've got a web page. 361 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 3: Check it out. Apply. We're recruiting hard. 362 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, good stuff. Well, we really appreciate your time this morning. 363 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us and talking us through 364 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: you know, some of the challenges that you have got 365 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,479 Speaker 1: as the commissioner. But you know, it does sound as 366 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: though there is quite a bit of work underway which 367 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: I think listeners are going to be really pleased to hear. 368 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 1: Thank you for your time this morning. 369 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 3: Good to check Katie. Thanks, thank you.