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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for.

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Speaker 1: The time poor parent who just wants answers Now.

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Speaker 3: The content of today's podcast may not be suitable for

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Speaker 3: younger listeners. We advise parental discretion. There's nothing explicit about

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Speaker 3: what we're talking about, but it is one of those

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Speaker 3: sensitive topics.

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Speaker 2: Hello.

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Speaker 3: My name is doctor Justin Colson. I'm here with my

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Speaker 3: wife Mum do our six kids, six daughters. Kylie Mishappy Families, Kylie.

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Speaker 3: The Australian Internet has gone wild a couple of weeks

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Speaker 3: ago on news dot com dot You, following up from

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Speaker 3: an explosive story about a man on the Gold Coast

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Speaker 3: who is upset that women are walking around not wearing

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Speaker 3: enough clothing, especially when they're at the beach. The following

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Speaker 3: appeared at news dot com dot Au from a mum

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Speaker 3: who doesn't like what's happening at Wet and Wild.

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Speaker 4: She said, I took my kids to wed and World

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Speaker 4: recently and there were a lot of women and girls,

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Speaker 4: tween and teens wearing gesturing swimwear, even if you're wearing

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Speaker 4: micro swimwear. The mother wrote, I have these types of

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Speaker 4: swimwear and I wear them often in my own pool.

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Speaker 4: I am far from a prude, and this is not

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Speaker 4: a case of jealousy. However, I am curious as to

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Speaker 4: what the general consensus is on wearing this at a

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Speaker 4: family theme park, particularly in the kids pool area. It's

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Speaker 4: not that I don't like it, it's just I don't

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Speaker 4: feel like it's an appropriate place for it. Would it

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Speaker 4: be okay if a man was to wear this at

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Speaker 4: the same park. Is this a case of just look

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Speaker 4: the other way and deal with it, okay?

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Speaker 3: So the first thing I'm going to say is no,

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Speaker 3: it would not be okay for man Warwick. If a

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Speaker 3: guy was wearing a fully g string up your bum

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Speaker 3: kind of bikini man Kieny kind of thing at Wet

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Speaker 3: and Wild, or in any public place see Bitsy and

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Speaker 3: It's Bitsy, Teeny Weeny, any dt whatever like, there would

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Speaker 3: be a phone calls made. I would guarantee if a

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Speaker 3: bloke wore something where if he bent over you could

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Speaker 3: see far too much, there would be requests for him

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Speaker 3: to change or leave the park. We have certain standards

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Speaker 3: and this would not It just would not fly in

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Speaker 3: that circumstance. At the beach, probably get away with it.

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Speaker 3: No one's going to call the lifeguards and force the

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Speaker 3: lifeguards into a challenging situation. They have no power anyway,

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Speaker 3: but at a family water fun park, I think this

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Speaker 3: is going to cause an absolute fudor anyway. We asked

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Speaker 3: what you think and how do I say this?

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Speaker 4: You didn't disappoint We had nearly a thousand comments on

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Speaker 4: this place.

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Speaker 3: It's explosive. It was explosive. Opinion was divided. Amanda said this, if.

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Speaker 5: You don't like it, don't look. Children don't care about

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Speaker 5: what others are wearing unless you make it a thing

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Speaker 5: they learn from us. Everyone should have the freedom and

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Speaker 5: choice to wear what they want. Last time I checked,

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Speaker 5: it wasn't the nineteen twenties. Sounds like a typical carrent

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Speaker 5: to me.

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Speaker 4: There were heaps of people who made comments similar to this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we don't live in Afghanistan, and the

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Speaker 3: general consensus from people who were on the side of

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Speaker 3: Amanda was people should be allowed to wear what we want.

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Speaker 4: I want to question though, her comment about the fact

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Speaker 4: that children don't care.

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Speaker 3: I think kids do.

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Speaker 4: I think kids do care, and I think that they

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Speaker 4: take in a lot more than we as parents often think.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, kids notice this stuff. It depends on their age.

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Speaker 3: It depends on what we've taught them as well. But

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Speaker 3: kids notice this stuff. This is what Alex had to

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Speaker 3: say about the topic.

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Speaker 6: I think it's a case of tearmind, too much information,

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Speaker 6: too much bum and other private parts on public display.

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Speaker 6: I'm not interested in seeing anyone's bad bums, male or

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Speaker 6: female at the beach, and we definitely shouldn't be sexualizing

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Speaker 6: kids with this kind of swim with.

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Speaker 3: So this issue of sexualization and child's safety is for me,

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Speaker 3: probably the biggest issue out of all of this. There's

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Speaker 3: a bit of a double standard that goes on in

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Speaker 3: terms of saying individual rights, individual freedom, but we've got

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Speaker 3: to teach how kids to be protected. It's a really

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Speaker 3: tricky thing.

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Speaker 4: Last week on the podcast, we actually had a discussion

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Speaker 4: about the New York Times investigation into moms who run

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Speaker 4: their kids' influencer accounts on social media.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 4: So we've got parents who are encouraging some really dangerous

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Speaker 4: behavior online and then we're trying to protect them from

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Speaker 4: Mary Poppins and the usage.

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Speaker 3: Of hoh and tosts. It's not okay, And I think

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Speaker 3: this is what's going on here. We're making big issues

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Speaker 3: of little things and making things really confusing for our kids.

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Speaker 3: There's the issue of body safety and whatever's covered player

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Speaker 3: swim where that's not for people to look at or

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Speaker 3: touch or make comments about. And yet swimmers getting smaller

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Speaker 3: and smaller, and those spaces that aren't for looking at

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Speaker 3: or touching or talking about are becoming it's a really

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Speaker 3: mixed message for our kids. Amanda said this.

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Speaker 7: My kids have recently had Kids Raw attend their school

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Speaker 7: and run sessions run by former police officers on child

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Speaker 7: safety and the prevention and disclosing of sexual abuse. The

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Speaker 7: parents and the care has had a separate session and

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Speaker 7: the very definition RAW used to help small children understand

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Speaker 7: what private parts are is the parts of our body

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Speaker 7: that we cover up when we go swimming. It's a

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Speaker 7: confusing message for them. Then when children go out and

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Speaker 7: see many of these body parts on display.

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Speaker 3: So some people are saying it's up to us to

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Speaker 3: not see it as sexual. It's just our body, it's

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Speaker 3: just flesh, it's just humanity.

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Speaker 4: If we were to live in Europe, Europeans go nude

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Speaker 4: or topless all the time.

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Speaker 3: Right, and then there's the overt sexualization. But here's the thing,

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Speaker 3: we're not in Europe, nor are we talking about a

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Speaker 3: nude beach. Here, we're talking about wet and wild. We're

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Speaker 3: talking about a family theme park where little kids and

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Speaker 3: big kids and well, anyone's there.

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Speaker 4: I think with anything like this, context really matters. It's

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Speaker 4: like coarse language and swearing. We're not swearers, and there

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Speaker 4: are just some places where it's not acceptable behavior. It's

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Speaker 4: kind of like the swim where there are some places

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Speaker 4: where I think we need to cover up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the environment matters. It's about being mindful and considerate

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Speaker 3: of who's around and what we're saying. Another Amanda, lots

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Speaker 3: of amandas we've got another Amanda who told us this.

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Speaker 8: I think we've become so self promoting as a society

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Speaker 8: that the whole idea of my body, my choice has

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Speaker 8: become an excuse to think of our own rights and

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Speaker 8: entitlement to do what we want without thinking of others.

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Speaker 8: If it makes others uncomfortable, and it's clearly a family

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Speaker 8: friendly venue, surely it won't be that big a deal

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Speaker 8: to just put a little more on.

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Speaker 3: So I like this idea of it. It's just not

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Speaker 3: that big of a deal. Why why we're pushing the

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Speaker 3: individual rights be considered people around you here's what Karina

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Speaker 3: had to say.

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Speaker 2: One piece, two piece with skirts and shorts, plus sized

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Speaker 2: and burkinis all have a place at a family water park.

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Speaker 2: Micro g string bikinis do not. They are not fit

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Speaker 2: for purpose. They are much like attempting to wear thongs

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Speaker 2: on a construction site.

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Speaker 4: So for our American listeners in Australia, thongs are actually

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Speaker 4: flip flops.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Otherwise this could be a very confusing conversation thongs

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Speaker 3: of flip flops because in American thongs well thongs.

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Speaker 4: I loved this one from Anne.

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Speaker 6: I'd be more wried about getting friction burn on my

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Speaker 6: bum checks and not being able to slide as easily.

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Speaker 2: I really like that.

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Speaker 3: That's very funny, But a lot of people kind of

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Speaker 3: just took a sensible route. You're going to get sunburnt,

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Speaker 3: like just cover up.

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Speaker 4: Look, I know we're being a little bit lighthearted about this,

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Speaker 4: but in all seriousness, there's actually a really dark side

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Speaker 4: to this. And my worry is about predators, and so

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Speaker 4: many of you share the same. Jessica raised it this way.

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Speaker 9: I have big concerns with predators. Literally everywhere is photography

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Speaker 9: banned in these places? I know it isn't in all

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Speaker 9: of them, because there's also the concern of people photographing

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Speaker 9: children and posting it god knows where for predators to

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Speaker 9: run with.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, public places generally can create feelings of unsafety. Let's

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Speaker 3: bring it back a little bit to some other comments

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Speaker 3: that came through. We've got this one from Kyla, and

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Speaker 3: then we're going to go straight into Clarissa.

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Speaker 10: At the end of the day, I can't control what

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Speaker 10: other people wear. What I can control is how I

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Speaker 10: talk about others, how I teach my kids to respect

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Speaker 10: others and their bodies, how to love their own bodies,

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Speaker 10: and ultimately to choose what they feel is best for them,

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Speaker 10: and not to dress because someone else thinks they need

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Speaker 10: to cover it.

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Speaker 1: I personally don't know why a piece of lingerie that's

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Speaker 1: a personal item became outdoor swimwear and for children too.

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Speaker 1: If you can't wear skimpy stuff at the gym where

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Speaker 1: children are not permitted, why are they allowed into a

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Speaker 1: children's park. Wet and Wild Bean Park should have their

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Speaker 1: own rule regarding appropriate swimwear.

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Speaker 4: Clariss's comment really resonates with me. I was taking our

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Speaker 4: daughter to her swimming lessons the other day at our

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Speaker 4: local swimming pool, and I don't even know why, but

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Speaker 4: they had a sign up that really grabbed my attention

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Speaker 4: this time talking about what was appropriate swimwear. They literally

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Speaker 4: had diagrams for each of the things that were appropriate

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Speaker 4: for swearing in their swimming pool and things that were not.

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Speaker 4: It was things like a leotard, you couldn't wear a leotard,

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Speaker 4: you couldn't wear bike pants, you couldn't wear T shirts.

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Speaker 2: Like.

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Speaker 4: They were very very clear about what was appropriate and

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Speaker 4: what was not, So it.

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Speaker 3: Wouldn't be hard for Wet and world to do that.

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Speaker 3: Here are our dress standards. I wonder what they want.

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Speaker 4: And what I find really interesting is in a country

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Speaker 4: that is renowned for significant numbers in skin cancer cases,

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Speaker 4: that we wouldn't actually be taking responsibility in helping others

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Speaker 4: to do the right thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, at the same time, you don't want to be

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Speaker 3: a nanty state and tell everybody that they have to

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Speaker 3: cover up. Like, people can make their own decisions and

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Speaker 3: if you're going to get sunburnt, that's on you.

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Speaker 4: I feel like this is a kind of if everybody's

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Speaker 4: doing it kind of scenario.

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Speaker 3: It's a cultural thing, without question, it's a cultural thing.

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Speaker 3: I don't think though, that sunburn is the issue. What

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Speaker 3: I do think is places all over the country have

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Speaker 3: standards for dress, and it wouldn't be hard for Wet

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Speaker 3: and World to do that based on the fact that

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Speaker 3: it's a family friendly venue. You've got one and two

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Speaker 3: and three and four and five year olds, and you've

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Speaker 3: got old kids as well, not to mention the adults

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Speaker 3: that are there. It doesn't strike me as unreasonable to

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Speaker 3: do this. What's your final position on this, Kylie? Are

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Speaker 3: these kinds of micro bikinis appropriate at all? And certainly

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Speaker 3: it went mik.

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Speaker 4: Look, I don't have an opinion one way or not

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Speaker 4: in relation to whether they're appropriate or not. Adults can

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Speaker 4: do what adults want to do, but I think that

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Speaker 4: there should be a social etiquette around when and where

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Speaker 4: you might wear them, and a family fun theme park

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Speaker 4: maybe not so much.

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Speaker 3: So here's where I land on this. I'm not going

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Speaker 3: to start as you have said. I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: start selling adults what they can and can't wear. But

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Speaker 3: I am going to say stop wearing it at family

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Speaker 3: friendly places. It's just not appropriate. The beach, fill your boots,

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Speaker 3: do your thing. The family water park just no, don't

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Speaker 3: do it. And here's why it's confusing for kids. We

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Speaker 3: teach them about privacy and then this public display contradicts this.

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Speaker 3: And while I'm never, ever, ever, ever going to agree

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Speaker 3: with victim blaming, there is no doubt at all that

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Speaker 3: it encourages voyeurism and predation in some parts of the population. Now,

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Speaker 3: I know that's not a politically correct thing to say,

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Speaker 3: and I know that sometimes simply being a living, breathing

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Speaker 3: woman does that. The issue on that is definitely with

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Speaker 3: the predator. We've got some challenges in society around this,

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Speaker 3: but I also know this. There are some things that

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Speaker 3: increase discomfort and increase risk that might be politically correct,

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Speaker 3: but it's also real life. We don't live in a

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Speaker 3: perfect world. Once you wear something in public, you lose

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Speaker 3: the choice about who gets to see you dress that way.

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Speaker 3: And while nothing nothing legitimizes poor behavior on another person's part,

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Speaker 3: sometimes people are going to do the wrong thing. So

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Speaker 3: for your body, your choice crowded. This is what I've

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Speaker 3: got to say. Context matters. It's just not the right

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Speaker 3: place for it, So stop being selfish. This is peak individualism.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes sometimes I wish we were a little bit more Asian,

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Speaker 3: a bit more collectivist, working for the common good rather

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Speaker 3: than our own elevation, our own status. We just as

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Speaker 3: so individual as and I think that it's to the

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Speaker 3: detriment of our community and the detriment of our kids.

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Speaker 3: Two last really quick points. First up, on our last

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Speaker 3: trip to wetten Wild, I was actually uncomfortable. Okay, so

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Speaker 3: I'm there with our daughters and they're surrounded by it,

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Speaker 3: but also as a married middle aged man who's also

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Speaker 3: a red blooded middle aged man, there were many times

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Speaker 3: where I struggled to know where to look. I'm standing

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Speaker 3: on the stairs and I look up, and if I

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Speaker 3: get caught looking where I'm looking, it's not a good look.

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Speaker 3: But I didn't mean to look there, and it's there,

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Speaker 3: if that makes sense. Lauren said this on the Facebook page.

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Speaker 3: She said, and I quote, it's quite uncomfortable when you're

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Speaker 3: standing on the stairs lining up for a ride and

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Speaker 3: you have a bare bottom in your face from the

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Speaker 3: person in the line in front of you. Not something

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Speaker 3: I really want to look at while I'm waiting in

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Speaker 3: line with my two children and husband. So, like I said,

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Speaker 3: a couple of times on the stairs, it's awkward, you're

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Speaker 3: down lower, you look the wrong way at the wrong time,

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Speaker 3: and it's just not a good look when a guy

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Speaker 3: in my age is looking there, if you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean, even when it's unintentional.

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Speaker 4: But the reality is, when you've got extremes in any

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Speaker 4: kind of fashion, it draws attention. Regardless of what your

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Speaker 4: intent is, your eye naturally is drawn to the extreme.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. It is. You can't deny that you're

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Speaker 3: just going to see this stuff. And finally, my last

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Speaker 3: point is there is a double standard. If it was

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Speaker 3: a guy, he'd be kicked out, he'd be told to

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Speaker 3: put something on, or he'd be kicked out.

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Speaker 4: So I guess we were to wrap this up. This

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Speaker 4: is really just a reminder to parents that this is

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Speaker 4: the world we live in. We don't get to decide

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Speaker 4: what other people do, and often we don't even get

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Speaker 4: to decide what our kids are exposed to, because what

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Speaker 4: do we do bubble them up? And we don't go

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Speaker 4: to the theme park because of what we might be

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Speaker 4: exposed to. And so I think the conversations we need

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Speaker 4: to be having with our children are around being considerate

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Speaker 4: of other people, being respectful of them, teaching them social

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Speaker 4: etiquette and what that is about. It's not about forsaking themselves.

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Speaker 4: But it's about acknowledging that there's certain places where it's

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Speaker 4: appropriate to wear things and certain places where it's not.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you don't wear this down to Cole's or

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Speaker 3: Woolly's or Aldi when you're doing the groceries. It's just

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Speaker 3: it's not the right context. You don't wear thongs on

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Speaker 3: a construction site.

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Speaker 4: I actually just read the other day for one of

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Speaker 4: the news prints, one of the news sites, that a

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Speaker 4: model was recently arrested because she went on her morning

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Speaker 4: walk topless.

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Speaker 3: Context is everything.

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Speaker 4: Context is everything.

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Speaker 3: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rowlan from

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Speaker 3: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. We really

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Speaker 3: appreciate your voice in this discussion. Hey, we hope that

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Speaker 3: you loved it. We hope that it made you rethink

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Speaker 3: or maybe maybe you hate this now. I'm fine with

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Speaker 3: that as well. I mean, everyone's got their opinions. We

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Speaker 3: can still be friends even if you don't like our

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Speaker 3: opinion on this one. If you have more to say,

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Speaker 3: jump onto Facebook and join the conversation there at Facebook.

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Speaker 3: Dr Justin Coilson's Happy Families. We're back with more tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: More controversy, more excitement. Tomorrow, we're talking about an eleven

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Speaker 3: year old who loves makeup, loves doing crazy colorful eyeshadow,

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Speaker 3: and wants her own YouTube channel. Is it a good

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Speaker 3: idea or a bad idea? Find out tomorrow with us

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Speaker 3: on the Happy Families podcast