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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Sitdown. I'm Viv Christy from

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Speaker 1: Australian Tennis magazine and great to be joined by Matt

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Speaker 1: Trolope of oz open dot Com.

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Speaker 2: Hey Matt, Hi, Viv, how are you doing.

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Speaker 1: I'm great, Thank you Great to be joining you again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's always good. Another episode of the sit Down

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Speaker 2: this week and we got the chance to chat to

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Speaker 2: one of the game's most esteemed coaches. Tell us what's

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Speaker 2: in store for listeners today.

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Speaker 1: We were lucky enough to talk to Wim Faset, who,

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Speaker 1: as you say, is a superstar of the coaching world.

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Speaker 1: He's coached the likes of Kim Kleister's, Victoria Azarenka, Simona

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Speaker 1: Hallop and Angelie Kerber and we caught up with Whim.

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Speaker 1: He talked about his current role, of course as coach

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Speaker 1: to Naomi Osaka, as well as other aspects of the game.

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Speaker 1: So let's hear what he has to say. Wim, thanks

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Speaker 1: for joining us on the sit Down. It's great to

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Speaker 1: have you here. I know it's very early on your

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Speaker 1: side of the world. We thought we'd start with talking

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Speaker 1: about your relationship with Naomi Osaka this year and what

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Speaker 1: you make of her comeback season so far.

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Speaker 3: Well, super happy. I was super happy to join Know

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Speaker 3: Me again in October. It's it's a really fun project

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Speaker 3: where the first part was already really great. We work

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Speaker 3: together from from nineteen until the end of or the

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Speaker 3: summer of twenty twenty two, so we had we had

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Speaker 3: good success, but still I felt there was a lot

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Speaker 3: more to achieve. Definitely, if you if we just look

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Speaker 3: at her, I think the potential to be a lot

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Speaker 3: better than she's ever been. I felt that that was

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Speaker 3: very clear. And to have this this check a second chance, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it made me really happy. But obviously see it was

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Speaker 3: a start from zero again after giving birth and actually

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Speaker 3: just starting a few months later, and that was definitely

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Speaker 3: very very challenging. And yeah, her first match was was

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Speaker 3: only six months after giving birth. That that was like

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Speaker 3: super early. But yeah, we we felt we all felt

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Speaker 3: she was she was ready to make a comeback. She

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Speaker 3: was already in a in a very good physical state,

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Speaker 3: and she was just very impatient to get to get

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Speaker 3: going again. And we are now a few months a

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Speaker 3: few months later, I think as a team we see

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Speaker 3: we're actually very happy with the progress with her development.

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Speaker 3: We see a big improvements like week by week physically,

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Speaker 3: also on the court, I think she's she's really doing

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Speaker 3: better and better, like day by day. Obviously we haven't

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Speaker 3: had like the big success we were we were hoping for,

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Speaker 3: but we all believe that that is just a matter

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Speaker 3: of time. So we're we're just going to keep working

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Speaker 3: as we have been doing and we really feel that, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we're going to have a big success this year.

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Speaker 1: What's been the highlight of your first four months back

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Speaker 1: on tour together.

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Speaker 3: I think I mean, first of all, the best match

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Speaker 3: she played was the Switolina match in Miami. I think

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Speaker 3: there kind of everything came back together. That was definitely

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Speaker 3: also the way we wanted to play, and yeah, it

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Speaker 3: was really fun to watch her play, Like you know,

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Speaker 3: we saw already in practice how good she can play,

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Speaker 3: but they're kind of everything came together. So really pleased

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Speaker 3: with that. But just the journey itself is like is

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Speaker 3: like a highlight. So just to know where she started

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Speaker 3: in October and like where she is now, the way

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Speaker 3: she looks, I mean, she's physically stronger than she wasn't

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Speaker 3: in twenty two, even in twenty one, I think when

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Speaker 3: she won she won the Australian Open, So I think

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Speaker 3: the journey itself is for me the highlight.

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Speaker 1: As you mentioned earlier, you did work with Naomi several

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Speaker 1: years ago. What have you noticed is different this time around?

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Speaker 3: She is now, first of all, a super professional player

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Speaker 3: who is taking care of like every detail. I really

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Speaker 3: feel that she has the mindset now that this is

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Speaker 3: her chance to make the best out of herself and

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Speaker 3: to show the people are true potential and also for

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Speaker 3: her to find her true potential how good She wants

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Speaker 3: to know how good she possibly can be, and she's

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Speaker 3: willing to work super hard for that. And yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: it's a player who right now who's really very curious

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Speaker 3: about like lots of things how she can improve in

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Speaker 3: different ways and kind of exploring a lot of things

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Speaker 3: she's doing, Let's say current nutrition changed a lot, She's

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Speaker 3: doing a lot of yoga and different movement kind of training,

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Speaker 3: and yeah, just through different ways of training, exploring where

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Speaker 3: she can improve.

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Speaker 2: It's really interesting to hear talk about this whim because

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Speaker 2: I think one thing we also saw that was a

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Speaker 2: little different from Naomi was the fact she entered the

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Speaker 2: two fifty level tournament in Ruan in France, which is

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Speaker 2: a level of tournament. She doesn't tend to play that often.

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Speaker 2: We both work with Todd Woodbridge and chatted to him

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Speaker 2: about this, and he thought that this was a really

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Speaker 2: good thing that she did, that was incredibly important to

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Speaker 2: her career. And I wonder what the thinking was for

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Speaker 2: Naomi to enter a tournament like that, because of course

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Speaker 2: she can get wild cards anywhere, like she could have

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Speaker 2: played the still Card tournament the same week. So we're

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Speaker 2: just wondering what was going on there in terms of

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Speaker 2: that scheduling change for her.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, first of all, when she came back and

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Speaker 3: in October when she started training again, one of her

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Speaker 3: clear goals in this next chapter in careers to do

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Speaker 3: better on the clay and on grass, and obviously for that,

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Speaker 3: we need to spend as much time as possible on

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Speaker 3: on on that surface, on those surfaces. And you know,

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Speaker 3: she also made the decision that she wanted to play

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Speaker 3: the Villagering Cup. She wanted to play, she wants to

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Speaker 3: play the Olympics, so really busy schedule, and we, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we still decided to play a tournament the week after

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Speaker 3: after the Villagini Cup did what she played in Japan,

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Speaker 3: and then, yeah, we thought it was a good idea

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Speaker 3: too to go to Roan where you she might have

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Speaker 3: maybe a little bit more chance to play more matches

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Speaker 3: that unfortunately didn't work out. But you know, like just

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Speaker 3: looking back, I think it was it was not easy

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Speaker 3: just going to Japan for the bill the Chinking Cup,

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Speaker 3: playing on hard, going to Ruan, have like a day

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Speaker 3: of preparation back on bag on clay, and it was

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Speaker 3: just it was just a difficult transition. But you know, like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: she was very clear that she wanted to play a

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Speaker 3: tournament on clay before we go to Madrid, and she

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Speaker 3: wants to spend as much as time as possible on

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Speaker 3: the clay, and we thought it was a good choice

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Speaker 3: and I think it wasn't the bad It wasn't a

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Speaker 3: bad choice, but at the end, with all the traveling,

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Speaker 3: it was a little bit more difficult than we thought.

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Speaker 2: And Mantini Trevison, she's obviously very very good on clay,

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Speaker 2: it's a tough draw. More generally, how are you and

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Speaker 2: how is Naomi feeling about her game on clay and

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Speaker 2: what do you think that she does well on this surface?

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Speaker 3: You know, it's it's a surface where she definitely can

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Speaker 3: play well, but she needs to spend time and she

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Speaker 3: needs to play matches. It's it's it's not the surface

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Speaker 3: where she's automatically feeling super confident like she's on the heart. Therefore,

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Speaker 3: I mean, she just hasn't played enough on that surface

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Speaker 3: the last three four years and also hasn't had the

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Speaker 3: success on that surface to be very confident. But at

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Speaker 3: the end, she she also grew up on the green

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Speaker 3: clay in Florida where she played a lot of hours.

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Speaker 3: So she's she's not she's not uncomfortable in her movement

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Speaker 3: and right now we see that she's she's playing a

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Speaker 3: high level on practice on where we play points. It's

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Speaker 3: it was a little bit more difficult, but I think

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Speaker 3: you know, she's a she's a super athlete, and that

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Speaker 3: that helps her on the clay. She has she has

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Speaker 3: the power two yeah too, to still be playing very

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Speaker 3: aggressive tennis on the clay and to to accelerate when

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Speaker 3: the ball has has no pace. She's she's always been

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Speaker 3: kind of a patient player. I mean, she's an aggressive player,

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Speaker 3: always has been a player that has been building more

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Speaker 3: of the rallies just instead of just going for the

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Speaker 3: winner on the first shot. So she has a good

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Speaker 3: kick surf on the second serf. So I think there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of parts in her game that we fit

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Speaker 3: really well on the clay. But it's it's definitely, yeah,

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Speaker 3: a work in progress for the next for the next weeks,

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Speaker 3: but also for the next years, you know, like her

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Speaker 3: comeback is planned for the next seven eight years. So

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Speaker 3: the more we can spend time on the clay, the

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Speaker 3: more we can learn and hopefully also have the success

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Speaker 3: that will only help her, like for the Olympic Games

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Speaker 3: this year, but also like for the next year. So

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Speaker 3: we're we see it as a big as a big

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Speaker 3: learning or I also feel that her game will just

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Speaker 3: develop more bye bye by playing on the clay. I

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Speaker 3: think her game will will develop in a way that

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Speaker 3: it will also help her on the hard courts better.

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Speaker 3: So I'm very excited about this part of the season.

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Speaker 3: And for sure, it's going to be very challenging because

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Speaker 3: you're going to play players like Travis Son who's just

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Speaker 3: like really good on clay, and they're just so comfortable

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Speaker 3: and they know exactly what to play on which ball.

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Speaker 3: But you know, it's we like challenges and we know,

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Speaker 3: like we know her potential. I've seen her play good

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Speaker 3: tennis on clay and I'm confident she'll be fine.

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Speaker 2: Just listening to you talk about her, it sounds like

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Speaker 2: that you're very excited with where she can go and

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Speaker 2: what more she can achieve. That you feel like there's

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Speaker 2: more to do. But I was wondering, where do you

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Speaker 2: take a player who's already won four Grand Slam titles,

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Speaker 2: has already been world number one, She's been the highest

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Speaker 2: paid female athlete in the world. She's kind of already

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Speaker 2: scaled the heights. What do you think is next for her?

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Speaker 3: Where can she go next? For her, it's just become

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Speaker 3: a better player and become a better athlete. I mean

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Speaker 3: it sounds, yeah, it sounds maybe weird that I say that,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, she has won her four Grand slams and

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Speaker 3: she played amazing tennis. But like coaching her, I feel

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Speaker 3: there's there's a lot more to do, and there's a

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Speaker 3: lot just looking at her. You know, of course, they're

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Speaker 3: they're really good players out there, like IgA and like Sablanca,

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Speaker 3: Rebecquina Coco, like, I mean, there are a lot of

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Speaker 3: good players out there, But just we look at her

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Speaker 3: data and we want to, let's say, have much better

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Speaker 3: data of her than we had in twenty two and

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Speaker 3: twenty one. That's our goal to see like how good

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Speaker 3: can she possibly be? And then I do feel that

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Speaker 3: if she if she keeps making steps forward, that that's

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Speaker 3: the result is going to be that she's going to

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Speaker 3: win more Grand Slam or that's I mean, that's at

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Speaker 3: least the goal, and that's where we as a team

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Speaker 3: really believe in. But the most importan and it's just

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Speaker 3: focus on her and yeah, showing her true potential.

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Speaker 1: We recently caught up with Brad Gilbert and he told

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Speaker 1: us that whether a coach is working with a player

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Speaker 1: on the ATP Tour or the WTA Tour, the coach

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Speaker 1: the focus is on simply helping that player get better,

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Speaker 1: but others say there's a different approach to working with

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Speaker 1: players on different tours.

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Speaker 3: What's your view, Well, I don't have the real ATP

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Speaker 3: experience doing my since I came on the tour in

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Speaker 3: two thousand and nine, I have been only coaching at WIT.

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Speaker 3: I do feel like I agree more with Brad where

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Speaker 3: I feel like tennis is tennis and as a coach,

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Speaker 3: what do you do? You try to develop your player

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Speaker 3: and you know, like women and men, they're both playing tennis.

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Speaker 3: You know, like and technically it's kind of the same sport.

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Speaker 3: And then of course you try to analyze your opponents

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Speaker 3: and find the right strategy, so that's that's also kind

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Speaker 3: of the same. So I I don't think there's a

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Speaker 3: there's a really big difference, you know. I think just yeah,

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Speaker 3: coaching women, you know that it's it's let's say sometimes

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Speaker 3: it could be a little bit more emotional, and it's

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Speaker 3: it's it's how to it's it's also very important how

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Speaker 3: to prepare the player before before the matches, Like I

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Speaker 3: always felt that in my fifteen years on the tour.

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Speaker 3: That's like putting them or bring them to the court

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Speaker 3: with the right expectations, like what challenge is to expect

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Speaker 3: and just to be ready for everything. So they're they're

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Speaker 3: kind of let's say emotionally like very stable and and yeah,

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Speaker 3: just just to to be ready for for all the

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Speaker 3: challenges that day. I think that's just maybe a little

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Speaker 3: bit more important than women's doone. As I would say, we.

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Speaker 1: Both came to know you in two thousand and nine

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Speaker 1: on the WTA tour when you were a coach to

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Speaker 1: KYM classes. She was making her comeback as a mother.

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Speaker 1: Are there specific requirements in coaching a player who is

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Speaker 1: also a.

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Speaker 3: Mom, I mean the coaching, the coaching is coaching. You know,

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Speaker 3: you tried to make your player a champion, that's a

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Speaker 3: ultimate goal, but obviously have you need understanding that that

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Speaker 3: it's probably a little bit different than coaching a twenty

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Speaker 3: year old like just traveling by herself. Right, So I

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Speaker 3: do feel now with Naomi, not much has changed. She

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Speaker 3: always had a good structure in her training and also

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Speaker 3: at the tournaments where we start early in the morning,

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Speaker 3: around eight or nine the latest, and then we just

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Speaker 3: do all the work together until around two or three,

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Speaker 3: and that's kind of how we've done it in the

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Speaker 3: past and kind of how we do it now, and

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Speaker 3: then she has she has the rest of the day

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Speaker 3: for her daughter, and you know, it's it's it's obviously

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Speaker 3: very important that the player has that's like, that's a

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Speaker 3: good structure. But with home it was that guy in

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Speaker 3: the past, and kind of with with Kim, we we

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Speaker 3: did it more or less the same training early in

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Speaker 3: the morning and the afternoon more off for the for

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Speaker 3: the family.

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Speaker 2: So hearing how you talk about coaching and preparing players,

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Speaker 2: one thing that you have a lot of experience doing

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Speaker 2: is coaching against Serena Williams. I just finished reading Ben

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Speaker 2: Rothenberg's book about Naomi Osaka, and there was a part

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Speaker 2: in it where he spoke to you about your success

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Speaker 2: coaching players to victories against her. I think he've worked

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Speaker 2: with six different players who have beaten Serena, which I

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Speaker 2: think actually might be a record for a coach. So

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Speaker 2: I wondered if you were maybe able to share with

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Speaker 2: us now that she's retired, what is the secret to

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Speaker 2: beating Serena?

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Speaker 3: You know, that's honestly, it's a great that are super

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Speaker 3: proud of that. You know, Serena, I mean obviously the

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Speaker 3: best player all time, the best female player all time,

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Speaker 3: so much respect for her. But yeah, I mean first

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Speaker 3: step was always making the player believe that there is

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Speaker 3: a chance to win. I think Serena definitely won a

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Speaker 3: lot of matches before the match started and making I

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Speaker 3: think making the player aware of like what was going

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Speaker 3: to happen even before the match would start. You know, say,

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Speaker 3: she likes to be a little bit late before the

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Speaker 3: start of the match, so she she she likes to

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Speaker 3: make you wait. There are a couple of other like

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Speaker 3: things she would she would do before the match to

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Speaker 3: really show her presence, and you know, I think just

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Speaker 3: going on the court and like being there for the

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Speaker 3: for the toss and seeing seeing readA on the other

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Speaker 3: side is not easy to to stay calm like. So

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Speaker 3: it's it's it's super important. That was the first step

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Speaker 3: to be really like okay, knowing understanding what's going to happen,

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Speaker 3: and then be fully prepared for that. And then yeah, tactically,

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Speaker 3: of course, I've beaten Serena with I think, yeah, six

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Speaker 3: different players, so all these players had kind of different

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Speaker 3: different weapons are and different strengths and weaknesses, so it's

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Speaker 3: always a little bit the yeah, a little bit personal.

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Speaker 3: But there were I mean, if I if I would

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Speaker 3: say like three things. It was obviously that she was

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Speaker 3: struggling a bit with with a low slide where she

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Speaker 3: has to move in the court and really getting under

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Speaker 3: the ball. That was like the match lost to let's

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Speaker 3: say Vinci. That was that was very clear that she

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Speaker 3: that she was struggling with that balls at her body

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Speaker 3: like from the return and also from a defense position.

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Speaker 3: If you would let's say play the defense cross that

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Speaker 3: would be a lot more comfortable than if you were

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Speaker 3: able to play it like long at her at her

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Speaker 3: body that she has to like get more distance to

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Speaker 3: the ball, and I do feel in tight situations just

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Speaker 3: the fall and was letting her down just a little

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Speaker 3: bit more than then the back end. Like those I

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Speaker 3: think those three were, yeah, were very important. And just mentally,

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Speaker 3: she was winning so many matches so easy that like

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Speaker 3: if you would just stay mentally like believing that there

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Speaker 3: was always kind of a window where she was like

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Speaker 3: going down a bit bitter level and that was I

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Speaker 3: felt that was always the moment that, yeah, that you

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Speaker 3: needed to be ready for. And because she wont so

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Speaker 3: many that's just easily. She was also not too comfortable

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Speaker 3: when it would go to a five all or a

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Speaker 3: six all level because it was like she was not

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Speaker 3: experiencing that a lot. So yeah, I mean I would

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Speaker 3: say a lot of like all these things a little

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Speaker 3: bit together. But I think on the other hand, most

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Speaker 3: important you had to hope that she wasn't having like

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Speaker 3: her very very best day because at her best, like

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Speaker 3: you could have the best tactics doing those but I

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Speaker 3: don't know, ten years she was she was unbeatable, like

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Speaker 3: that's that's clear. She was far better than than all

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Speaker 3: the rest of the game. Whim.

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Speaker 1: You've had an amazing coaching career where you've coached multiple

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Speaker 1: players to Grand Slam titles or finals. Do you have

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Speaker 1: a sort of look back on tennis history and think

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Speaker 1: I would have loved to have coached that particular player.

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Speaker 3: When I when I started my career in two dozen nine,

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Speaker 3: my dream is actually to coach or I thought the

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Speaker 3: highest possible I could achieve was to coach Maria Sharpova.

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Speaker 3: I think, yeah, she was, Yeah, she was such an

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Speaker 3: interesting player. She was also like an unbelievable good player.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I felt like I would have been super

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Speaker 3: excited to coach her and to make her, like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: tried to make her a better player, and like especially

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Speaker 3: the last yeah five six years of her career. I

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Speaker 3: think that would have been like super interesting project for myself,

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Speaker 3: and I think I could have been a val valuable

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Speaker 3: coach for her. But yeah, that's you know, she had

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Speaker 3: other great she had really great coaches during her career,

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Speaker 3: and she always had like the best people around her.

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Speaker 3: And but yeah, like that was definitely a player that

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Speaker 3: I would have loved to coach.

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Speaker 1: Here, Yeah, as tennis fans, I think we would have

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Speaker 1: loved to have seen that too. So on a personal level,

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Speaker 1: how do you balance your family life with your life

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Speaker 1: as a traveling coach.

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Speaker 3: I think I have a very understanding family. I think

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Speaker 3: that that's the first one. But my children kind of

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Speaker 3: grew up like they were born in the time that

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Speaker 3: I was doing this, so so I think my oldest son,

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Speaker 3: who's now eight, it was like two or three years

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Speaker 3: ago where he actually asked me the question, like, hey,

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Speaker 3: my friend says his dad is home every night, so

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Speaker 3: he kind of thought that, like when dad goes to work,

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Speaker 3: it's normal that he's gone for like three or four

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Speaker 3: weeks and then he's home maybe a week or two.

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Speaker 3: So for them, it's kind of normal. They haven't experienced

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Speaker 3: anything else, and I think that's that's helping us. I

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Speaker 3: think some some coaches decide to stay home when when

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Speaker 3: the kids are very very young, and I think that

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Speaker 3: makes it a little bit more different a girl. Then

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Speaker 3: let's say suddenly the kids are three and four years

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Speaker 3: old and then suddenly the father starts traveling like four

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Speaker 3: or five weeks in a row. I think that's like

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Speaker 3: a big shock for the family. So we yeah, like

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Speaker 3: we we we we have done it since since the

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Speaker 3: kids are born we're luckily my wife is at home,

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Speaker 3: so she she can take care of the kids and

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Speaker 3: bring them to school, pick them up, bring them to

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Speaker 3: the hobbies, bringing to the tennis, the football. So the kids,

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Speaker 3: let's say, they're they're having they're having a wonderful time

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Speaker 3: even when I'm when I'm when I'm gone, when I'm traveling,

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Speaker 3: And every year we tried to do at least one

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Speaker 3: trip together, and like recently we did the Indian Wells

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Speaker 3: Miami trip, which they have done already a few times,

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Speaker 3: and they're they're super happy to be there and have

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Speaker 3: some have some sunshine after the cold winter in Belgium.

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Speaker 3: The most important spend spend time together and do lots

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Speaker 3: of fun activity together.

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Speaker 2: It's been really clear from talking to you today just

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Speaker 2: how passionate you are about coaching. That's really come through

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Speaker 2: in this chat. And I just wondered that, since you've

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Speaker 2: done this for fifteen years and started back in two

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Speaker 2: thousand and nine, what is it that you must love

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Speaker 2: about coaching and walk tim motivated to continue? Like do

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Speaker 2: you think it might be something you could still be

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Speaker 2: doing in another fifteen years from now?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? And when I started, it was obviously not clear

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Speaker 3: like how my career would go, and also if I

394
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Speaker 3: would get a lot of chances to coach like good

395
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Speaker 3: players on the tour. So I don't think I imagined

396
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Speaker 3: in two thousand and nine that I was going to

397
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Speaker 3: be here in twenty twenty four and coaching someone like

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Speaker 3: Naomi Osaka, and I never dreamed about that. But I think,

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Speaker 3: like you said, everything starts with passion. And since the

400
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,439
Speaker 3: first time I picked up a tennis recket, tennis has

401
00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 3: always been, yeah, my biggest passion. I still loved to

402
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 3: play every time, Like now me thinks it's very funny,

403
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 3: but every time I get like she's still warming up

404
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 3: and I get like five minutes to hit the ball,

405
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Speaker 3: and I'm I'm like the happiest person in the world.

406
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Speaker 3: And no, I think also like just my personality, I

407
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 3: love to I love to I love to give, And

408
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 3: I think the coaching role is like the the perfect

409
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Speaker 3: role for me. Where I am I'm in the background,

410
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Speaker 3: like trying to to help as much as possible and

411
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 3: with my with my knowledge, but also with my passion

412
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 3: and give the give the energy to the player and

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00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,199
Speaker 3: let her feel the passion as well. And yeah, just

414
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Speaker 3: also with with the ambition I have to, yeah, to

415
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 3: win Grand Slams and to to make the player the

416
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 3: number one in the world if possible. But yeah, that's

417
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 3: I think that's the whole package. Yeah, fits me really well.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Wim. It's been great to talk

419
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,719
Speaker 1: to you, and good luck for the weeks and the

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Speaker 1: months ahead.

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Speaker 3: Thank you very much, both of you.

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Speaker 1: So, Matt's some absolute nuggets there from Whim, and I

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Speaker 1: loved hearing in particular that the player he would have

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Speaker 1: loved to have coached was Maria Sharapova.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought that was really interesting, and yeah, it

426
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 2: was just absolutely fascinating to know because we'd spoken about

427
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 2: his success coaching players against Serena, but on the flip side,

428
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 2: Sharapova notoriously struggled against Serena and I think lost their

429
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 2: last nineteen matches in a row. So, you know, would

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Speaker 2: if Wim had have been working with Maria, would he

431
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 2: have helped her make a dent in that head to

432
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Speaker 2: head I don't know, and that's something we'll never know,

433
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Speaker 2: but fascinating to contemplate.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And what we do know is we'll be

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Speaker 1: back next week with another episode of the sit Down,

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Speaker 1: and in the meantime, you can listen to John and

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Speaker 1: the team on the AO Show weekly this Thursday, and.

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Speaker 2: For details on how to contact us, you'll find them

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Speaker 2: in the show notes. And in the meantime, please subscribe,

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Speaker 2: rate and review Good to see if you next week.

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Speaker 1: Look forward to it, Matt oh mm hmm.