1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Now joining me on the line right now is one 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: of our MLAs here in the Northern Territories. She's the 3 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: Independent member for Guida and the former Speaker of the 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: Northern Territories Legislative Assembly. 5 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 2: Her name is Kezia Puric. Good morning to you, Keasier. 6 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 3: Hey, good morning Katie, Good morning Kezier. 7 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 2: This story is an interesting one. Yeah, it's a funny one. 8 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 3: Well, as you said, there's all members of the Assembly 9 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 3: are entitled to vehicle. It's part of our entitlement. So 10 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 3: now we get we get a salary, we get a vehicle, 11 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 3: we get electoral office, et cetera. And there's two ways, 12 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 3: as you said, the members can do it. They can 13 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 3: either take an allowance for their vehicle and then go 14 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 3: and buy their own vehicle. And that's what I've done. 15 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 3: I've taken you a lounge and so the car I 16 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 3: drive it to brew Brether is my car, okay. And 17 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 3: then I get a fuel allowance which goes into my 18 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 3: bank and that's how I pay my fuel. Okay. Now 19 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 3: the car is all very depending on your electorate, like 20 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 3: the town electrics get a choice of certain vehicles my 21 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 3: Electric else, and then daily can have a full drive 22 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 3: if they want, and then a lot of the bush 23 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 3: electrics are in titled to a full well drive and 24 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 3: certain fittings of that full drive, like a spare tire, 25 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,759 Speaker 3: you spare battery, whatever, because you think electric, let's be honest. 26 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 3: And those who take the car also then get a 27 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 3: fuel card and it there's always been the assumption the 28 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 3: fuel card is for use for your job. In the past, 29 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 3: when I was a speaker and some members did want 30 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 3: to take their car into stateful holidays at the end 31 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 3: of the year, whatever, they would ask permission, and then 32 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 3: permission was given because there's legal issues, you know, like 33 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 3: if you have a praying into state for example, or 34 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 3: something happens, there's implications, you know, because your car has 35 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 3: been issued as part of your job. But there was 36 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,199 Speaker 3: always always a situation that if you're on a private visit, 37 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 3: you paid your own fuel, you didn't use your fuel card. 38 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 3: And that's the way it was. It's always been, and 39 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 3: I think most members, if all of the members, I 40 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 3: was always under thisssumption that these new members were advised 41 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 3: of the situation. So how these two members view their 42 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 3: fuel cuts for private trips is a little bit beyond me, 43 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 3: and I'm sure, lots of. 44 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: People, So keysy, it just make it really clear for us. 45 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: So when it comes to petrol and that fuel allowance, 46 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: there is a fuel allowance there. Local members can be 47 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: paid out and that can go into the account and 48 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,119 Speaker 1: you can use as needed as required within the electorate. 49 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: But then others, others are entitled to a fuel card 50 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: that can be used at any point. 51 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 3: Yes, anywhere in the territory. I mean if there was 52 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,679 Speaker 3: a situation and it can arise where you go into 53 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 3: state on a work trip, that's a different situation because 54 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 3: you know, some members might duck across the Queensland or 55 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 3: duck across w A. You know, because cattle stations and 56 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 3: synergies is they're electric here. That's understandable. That's a business trip. 57 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 3: It's the same as when you know, like when a 58 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 3: member takes a government car we call it a government car. 59 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,799 Speaker 3: It comes back in regularly for a service, It comes 60 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 3: back and has its tires checked and if they have 61 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 3: to replace their replaced. So all expenses to do with 62 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 3: that vehicle are covered as part of their entire. 63 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: So Keys, when do you reckon this changed with the 64 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: fuel card then being able to be used. 65 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 3: I don't know. If it has changed it. I haven't 66 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 3: looked at the Tribunal's determination or list of determination in 67 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 3: regards to the use of the fuel card, but I 68 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 3: was understanding that it was still if you go on 69 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 3: a personal trip, you pay your own fuel, and the 70 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 3: same would go if you you know, you know, one 71 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 3: of your tires blew had a punct or something, you'd 72 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 3: replace it at your own cost, because you know, it's 73 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 3: a private trip. It's not your work, it's not a 74 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 3: work trip. So I'm not sure. I mean, I'm not 75 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 3: one to criticize the speaker at all, but if I 76 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 3: was to spink, I'd be questioning that, you know, And 77 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 3: if the Tribunal for whatever reason, has been given submissions 78 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 3: by members or the political parties, then maybe now members 79 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 3: or even members of the public. Members of the public 80 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 3: are entitled to have their say as well. The Tribunal 81 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 3: always puts an ad in the paper saying we were 82 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 3: reviewing members and talbants. Do you want to have to 83 00:03:55,880 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 3: say genuine concerns put in a soblission. 84 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: Do you think that you know, I'm just taking a 85 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: look at these numbers here in terms of what was 86 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: reportedly used into states. So according to this report by 87 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: the ABC on the weekend. The fuel disclosure records show 88 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: that back bench MLA Duran Young spent more than seven 89 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: thousand dollars in fuel purchases over a four month period 90 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: that was from December twenty twenty two, but of this, 91 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 1: more than two and a half thousand dollars was spent 92 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: on private travel in New South Wales and Queensland, tabbing 93 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: up fuel spends in towns like Ballina, Yamba, Noosa, long Reach, 94 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:35,239 Speaker 1: Mount Isser and Cammerwheel. The records also show the Northern 95 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: Territories Attorney General Chancey Paig wrapped up more than seven 96 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 1: hundred dollars in fuel costs on private travel during driving 97 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: between Adelaide and the Northern Territory between Boxing Day twenty 98 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 1: twenty two and January seven this year. 99 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 2: Do you think that that money should do you think 100 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 2: that should. 101 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 3: Be south go? Okay, sorry I interrupted, that's all right. 102 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 2: Do you think that money should be paid. 103 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 3: Back if they're not entitled to it. I think it 104 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 3: should be paid back if they're not entitled to it. 105 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 3: It becomes an ethical and a moral issue. Now I've 106 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 3: got a use my own and I've also got my 107 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 3: so brewers, I said to you now, two thousand dollars, 108 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 3: that's a lot of fuel. Even with our high prices 109 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 3: here in the territory, that's a lot of fuel. Like 110 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 3: most cars, an average car is about fifty sixty leaders, 111 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:26,799 Speaker 3: you know, it probably costs about one hundred and twenty 112 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 3: to fill it up. And what fuel akafour will drive 113 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 3: bigger car diesel more expensive. I get that, but it 114 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 3: just does seem to be a lot of money. So 115 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 3: I think the question is were they entitled to use 116 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 3: their fuel card interstate on a personal trip. If that's 117 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 3: the case, well that's the case. But if not, and 118 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 3: they were given commissioned by the speaker, we'll let something 119 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 3: that the Speaker has to answer to now. 120 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: In terms of if I can gather what the Northern 121 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: Territory government has responded to me in terms of my 122 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: questions this morning. They didn't respond to whether the member 123 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 1: would pay that money back, the members would pay that 124 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: money back, or you know, whether whether there should be 125 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: a needs to be a tightening of those rules. But 126 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: what they have said is that the Renumeration Tribunal is 127 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: an independent body that sets the entitlements for all members 128 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: of the Legislative Assembly. They go through the fact that 129 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: vehicles are provided to members of the Legislative Assembly for 130 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: parliamentary business, electorate use and private use, and members who 131 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: ought not to receive an Northern Territory government vehicle are 132 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 1: given a financial entitlement that they can use instead, and 133 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: this entitlement varies for different electorates. 134 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 2: They say. 135 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: Additional entitlements for allowances and expenses for parliamentary and electorate 136 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 1: business are set out in sections five, six and seven 137 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: of the determination. 138 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: The Keyser, I guess. 139 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: The question is is does that determination need to change 140 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 1: if we've got politicians that are using their fuel cards 141 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: into state, Like, why on earth are Territorians footing the 142 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 1: bill for that for their private travelers. 143 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 3: Yes, well, it wouldn't be the first time, Katie. When 144 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 3: I was the Speaker there was a past member who 145 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 3: was abusing her fuel card and her vehicle something terribly 146 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 3: and the rules did have to change, and I put 147 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 3: it to the tribunal. I said, look, this can't keep 148 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 3: going on, you know, we must do this, this and 149 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 3: this and change the rules. And so the rules were 150 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 3: changed to tighten up on those things so that can happen. 151 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 3: So if it's just not expressly in the Tribunal that 152 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 3: your car and your fuel allowance card is for your 153 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 3: domestic your domestic personal use and your electric et cetera. 154 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 3: Then but not into state travel for holidays. Then that 155 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 3: clarity needs to happen in the tribunal, and they're doing 156 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 3: it at the moment, so I'm sure this is one 157 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 3: of the things that they will look at the tribunal members. 158 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Kesyopuric, it is always good to catch up 159 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: with you. I appreciate you providing us that background and 160 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: appreciate that clarity as always. 161 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 3: Thanks Katie, thank you, See you later.