1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 1: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imbach. I'm an 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: organizational psychologist, the founder of innovation consultancy Inventium, and I'm 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work day. This 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: episode is another my favorite tip episode. The title is 7 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: probably pretty self explanatory. It's about my favorite tip from 8 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: each of the interviews I conduct. So my guest today 9 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: is Cyan taid Si is one of Australia's most successful entrepreneurs, 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: having co founded in Varto in two thousand and six 11 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 1: and growing it to being valued at over one billion dollars. 12 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: Last year, she tried her hand at chocolate you Know 13 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: why Not and Hey Tiger is now one of Australia's 14 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: fastest growing purpose driven brands. Than in her spare time, 15 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: she recently launched Milkshake dot app, which allows users to 16 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: make a free website from their Instagram profile, all on 17 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: their fine instantly. Now. In this extract, I chat to 18 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: say about how she has overcome a pretty major case 19 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: of imposter syndrome. 20 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 2: So I think that I spent a long time feeling 21 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 2: like I was trying to cover up, feeling like I 22 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: wasn't actually as intelligent, as capable, as good as everyone 23 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 2: maybe thought I was. You know, I was running you know, 24 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 2: a fifty person team at twenty seven, you know, and 25 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: you know, deeply inexperienced in doing that and had to 26 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 2: learn on the job a lot. And my coping mechanism 27 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 2: was to go, I've well, no, it's okay, I've got 28 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: it all figured out, when in fact, I, you know, 29 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: I didn't. And then we went through a period where 30 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 2: we had a lot of very experienced people coming into 31 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 2: the business and I kind of thought, oh, well, I'll 32 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 2: step aside again. The big kids are here now, and 33 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 2: they said, don't worry, we got this, we know how 34 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 2: to do this, and then realizing that actually, oftentimes unfortunately 35 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 2: they didn't, and that there was something different about the 36 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 2: way I was doing it, which was helpful and useful 37 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 2: and you know, better in some cases. So I kind 38 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 2: of had to figure out what it was that was 39 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 2: going on with me. I think, especially you know, the 40 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 2: tech VC world in the US, they talk a big game. 41 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 2: I never did. What did that mean about me? 42 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: You know? 43 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: It was it was one of those things where I 44 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 2: felt like I really needed to address it, and there 45 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 2: was a few things I did, a few steps that 46 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: I went through. The first thing was is that I 47 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 2: went and looked around me to people who people that 48 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 2: I just felt like had a really natural confidence around them. 49 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 2: And honestly, those two people, and best friend Natalie Tam 50 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: and my husband like honestly just naturally confident, you know, 51 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 2: chilled out, you know, just I wanted to emulate the 52 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 2: two of them, not to say that they thought they 53 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 2: could do everything. I just I felt like they I 54 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: felt like they were very effective in that they never 55 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 2: worried about asking questions that might make them look stupid. 56 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 2: They never worried about that, and I always worried about that. 57 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 2: So I needed to shift my thinking from wanting to 58 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 2: seem like the smartest person in the room to wanting 59 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 2: to leave the room being the smartest person in the room. 60 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 2: And it was It meant that I needed to ask 61 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 2: questions constantly and I needed to not care whether it 62 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 2: made me look like an idiot. I think I also 63 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 2: needed to start saying yes to opportunities even when they 64 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 2: really scared me, because for a long time I kind 65 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: of tried to avoid failing really and I had to 66 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: get really used to and comfortable failing all the time 67 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 2: and figuring out how to cope with that. And the 68 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 2: more I do it, the less it became about me, 69 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 2: and the more it became about the concept that I 70 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 2: was just trying to do really hard things, and that 71 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 2: when you're try and do really hard things that someone's 72 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: never done before, oftentimes you fail. And honestly, like I 73 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 2: can tell you, I'm probably about ten startups in all up, 74 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 2: and there's a lot you haven't heard about it and 75 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 2: don't know about because they didn't succeed. And close them down. 76 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 2: I mean, all that didn't work, all right, Better shut 77 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 2: that down and keep on going. And I think the 78 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 2: final step, the final piece of the puzzle for me. 79 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 2: And again it's making it sound like I've got this 80 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 2: completely figured out, which I don't. But the most effective 81 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 2: thing I did overall was I got really clear about 82 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 2: where I was weak and where I was strong. So 83 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 2: I think you know when you have imposter syndrome. And 84 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 2: I'm basing this anecdotally on other people that I've spoken to, 85 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 2: which I think is a fairly human universal issue. The 86 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 2: more and more time that goes on, I believe that 87 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: one tends to the whole concept of where you're weak 88 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 2: is so scary you never look that way. And I 89 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 2: think I had this idea in my mind that I 90 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 2: needed to be incredibly strong in all areas. Again, I 91 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 2: had to be this machine who was as right brained 92 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 2: as I was left brained, and you know, and just 93 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 2: had to know everything. And I think I realized that 94 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 2: that was impossible, and I was setting totally unrealistic expectations 95 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 2: on myself and again not treating myself with a great 96 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 2: deal of compassion. And I decided that I needed to 97 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 2: have a really critical look, learn where I was really strong, 98 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 2: but also learn where I was really weak. Because I 99 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 2: can adjust for my weaknesses, I can hire I hire 100 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 2: out my weaknesses. Now I find people who balance me 101 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 2: out and that can kind of adjust. I'm very left 102 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 2: brained person, so I need the left brains around me 103 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 2: because they do absolutely incredible work. And I think most people, 104 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 2: if their left brain, will hire other left brains. I 105 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 2: need guns of right brains. I need operational guns around me. 106 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 2: And I think once I realized where I specifically could 107 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 2: add value and where I just needed to get out 108 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 2: of the way and find really strong people and trust them. 109 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 2: That really helped me. It gave me a lot of 110 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 2: space to be really good at what I did and 111 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 2: free me up from constantly beating myself and beating myself 112 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 2: up and being worried the areas where I was weak. 113 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: You mentioned self talk a couple of times, and like 114 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: even just before like we were about to start, you know, 115 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,679 Speaker 1: recording or doing what we're doing, you know, you mentioned 116 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 1: that you were feeling nervous. I hope it's okay for 117 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: me to say, like, what is your self talk before 118 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: things like this and your approach I guess to overcoming 119 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: the nerves that you might be feeling, which I must 120 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: say shocks me because it's like you got this, like 121 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 1: you're awesome. Yeah, I think that. 122 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 2: I genuinely just I wouldn't say that I get downright 123 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 2: nervous anymore. But I was saying to a couple of 124 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 2: people that I know before I came in, I was like, oh, 125 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 2: I find it. I'm finding it difficult to hold to 126 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 2: conduct a conversation with you right now because my head 127 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 2: is so in like mentally preparing myself, and I think 128 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 2: that it is for me. It's all about all right, Well, 129 00:06:56,040 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 2: I genuinely want to be really present in this conversation 130 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 2: because I recognize that people are giving up an hour 131 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 2: of their time and have woken up early in the 132 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 2: morning and everything else to be here. And it's about 133 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 2: me providing, hopefully providing some value in this conversation and 134 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 2: of being an interesting conversation. So I think I used 135 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 2: to get exceptionally nervous, and a couple of things really helped. 136 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 2: Once I was on a panel and the interviewer asked 137 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 2: a very very complicated question and the woman next to 138 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 2: me and I was freaking out, like I don't know 139 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 2: how to answer this, Oh my goodness, And the woman 140 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 2: next to me said, ah ah, I'm sorry, I don't 141 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 2: know the answer to that question. Can you come back 142 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 2: to me? And I thought, that's a great answer. That 143 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 2: is a perfectly reasonable position to take. And again that's 144 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 2: thing about you don't need to know everything, you don't 145 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: need to be the authority on everything, which to me 146 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: has been very, very freeing and very helpful. And the 147 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 2: other thing was yet again, you know, I was about 148 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 2: to go on stage that I was talking to about 149 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 2: this particular event. I was telling this story that because 150 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 2: we were putting the mic on and I said that 151 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 2: I went to an AFR event which was just the 152 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 2: whole audience was journals, like three hundred of them, and 153 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 2: I was wearing this big, flowy yellow dress and they said, 154 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 2: we've got to put We've got to like they do 155 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:24,239 Speaker 2: this thing where they like hook the mic into your belts, 156 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: but I didn't have a belt, so they were like, 157 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 2: what are you going to do with this? So I'm 158 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 2: like standing at the back in kind of the audio 159 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 2: visual area, pulling up my dress and trying to stuff 160 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 2: it into my underpants. It was like just just like 161 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 2: not the most empowering way to start an event. But anyway, 162 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 2: going up, the journalist said to me, she said, okay, 163 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 2: we're going to talk about I'd really like to ask 164 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 2: you this question about what's this new ruling with listed companies. 165 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 2: It's new ruling with listed companies? What does it mean? 166 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 2: Invita is not a listed company. It is not an 167 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 2: error of interest for me at or like literally not 168 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 2: even slightly. And I could feel my heart starting to 169 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 2: you know, boom boom boom boom imposter syndrome. I'm going 170 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 2: to be found out. They're going to realize I shouldn't 171 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 2: be here this is going to be super embarrassing, and 172 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 2: instead I just turned around and I said to her, listen, 173 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 2: you're very welcome to ask me that question, but I 174 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 2: honestly have no idea. I have no idea what the 175 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 2: answer is, so I will literally just stay on stage. 176 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. When not listed this isn't an area 177 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 2: of interest for me. You should ask someone else. And again, 178 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 2: they sound like really little things, but really helpful in times. 179 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 2: You know, in times like that where you're kind of 180 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: there's pressure and you're on stage and you kind of 181 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 2: you want to you want to perform and be useful. 182 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: Hey, there me again. I just love size perspective on 183 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: all this stuff and just the idea of focusing on 184 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: trying to be useful for me, that's so cool. It's 185 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: definitely something I've taken to heart when I've been feeling 186 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 1: nervous about events that I'm speaking at or when I'm 187 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: a panelist, and just reminding myself that all I need 188 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: to do is try to be useful and that's enough. 189 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: So that is it for today. If you like this excerpt, 190 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: you might want to listen to my full chat with Ci, 191 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: which I linked to in the show notes. And if 192 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: you're enjoying how I work, why not spread the word 193 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: and tell other people about it that you think might 194 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: find some value in the chats that I have. So 195 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: that is it for today and I will see you 196 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: next time.