1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: But we know that an inquest into the death of 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: a much loved and respected Northern Territory Police officer has 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: laid bare the intense pressure facing remote Police officers, with 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: accusations that the agency has failed in its workplace safety obligations, 5 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: leaving officers fatigued, under resource and exposed to serious trauma. 6 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: Constable Michael Mickey d Dutram took his life, as we know, 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: in April twenty twenty two, three months after taking personal 8 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: leave from his posting in Kintour. The inquest began last 9 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,160 Speaker 1: week and had heard that Constable Dutram had been diagnosed 10 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: with post traumatic stress disorder after more than two decades 11 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: in the force and told his superiors he was burnt 12 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: out after nine months at that remote posting. Now joining 13 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: us in the studio as a Northern Territory Police Association 14 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: President Nathan Finn, Good morning to you, Finny. 15 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 2: Good morning, Katy, Good morning to you. 16 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: Listen, Finny, you've obviously been following the inquest, You've been 17 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: in there all of last week. I mean, what can 18 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: you sort of tell us following those days. 19 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 2: Very tough time and very much very hard on the 20 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 2: family and obviously members that have dialed in and been 21 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 2: in the court room as well. Very tough times. We've 22 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:17,839 Speaker 2: got to remember that it's okay not to be okay, 23 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 2: and at times we've seen that across last week with 24 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 2: this coronial and producing some evidence that it's not really 25 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 2: up to the standard that we see in the Northern 26 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: Territory Police Force Management Team have got some serious questions 27 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 2: to answer in respect to this, but also shows and 28 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 2: highlights the issues we have within our police force, especially 29 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 2: around the resource allocation and especially in our remote communities. 30 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 2: And this has brought highlight in this coronial evidence that's 31 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 2: been put forward last week. But again very tough time 32 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 2: and a time to remember the sacrifices which our members 33 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 2: make on a daily basis and to ensure that we 34 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 2: learn from these mistakes. It's not about the finger pointing. 35 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: It's not about but our members want answers. Our members 36 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 2: want to know what can be done better, how we 37 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: can look after our members better and make sure that 38 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: we're adlocate resourced to do the job that we need 39 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: to do, but also provide that support to our members 40 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 2: that suffer this cumultive trauma that we have across long 41 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 2: periods of careers. 42 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: So can you tell us about some of the allegations 43 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: facing the force in regards to work and safety obligations. 44 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, so across the remote areas, we've heard members being 45 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 2: isolated in remote communities for up to thirty five days. 46 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 2: Was the evidence that was presented, Katie. I'd love to 47 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 2: say that this happened years ago. It's still happening as 48 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 2: of last week. Our members are contacting us last week 49 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 2: confirming that this is still a matter of contentious right 50 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 2: across our remote stations, we're still seeing members left by 51 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 2: themselves in remote communities, left to respond to serious incidents 52 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: alone in remote communities. And this has been highlighted by 53 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 2: the assaults we've seen on the weekend again in one 54 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 2: way where they're potentially ambushed as they come out of 55 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 2: the police station, bars thrown through windscreens of police vehicles 56 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 2: and everything. 57 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: Well, this is the thing, Finny. You know, what the 58 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: police are facing in some of these remote communities is unbelievable. 59 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: I mean, police say they're working with the elders in 60 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: whatever after being targeted by that group of about thirty 61 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: people armed with bows, arrows lovers. 62 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 2: This is a generalized response, cadding. We see this time 63 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 2: and time again, we're working with the elders. Unfortunately, if 64 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 2: the elders were doing what they were supposed to do 65 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 2: and have that control of that community, we wouldn't be 66 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 2: dealing with these offenders to start with. We'd have the 67 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 2: respect back for the police in those communities. The fact is, 68 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 2: if they don't they want to treat us with the 69 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: contempt that they treat us with, they'll have no police 70 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 2: there because no one will want to go there county 71 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 2: to look after them. 72 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: And you know, you go to yourself. Like the officers 73 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: were responding to a disturbance outside a childcare center on 74 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: Friday afternoon, like that's horrifying. It's alleged two men through 75 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: things at the police car, one piercing the windscreen and 76 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: the other lodging into the bonnet. Officers there returning to 77 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: the station and the group allegedly started writing outside. I mean, 78 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: how are those officers now going in? 79 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: What we try to make contact over the weekend with 80 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 2: the station as well, and quite rightfully so, they be 81 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: traumatized by this. They see this time and time again, 82 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 2: they see that they're being targeted time and time again, 83 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 2: and this coronial is actually looking at that. How this 84 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 2: sort of behavior is towards our police. How that cumulative 85 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 2: damage that they go on with their careers and how 86 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 2: that plays out on their own mental health. They make 87 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 2: enormous sacrifices to serve the community. And there'll be people 88 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 2: out there to say that they get paid lots of money. 89 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: Well they don't. You don't get paid enough when your 90 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 2: life's on the line nearly every day you pull on 91 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 2: that uniform and trying to do the right thing by 92 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 2: the communities. In these communities that are dysfunctional, Katie, you 93 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 2: see it in your face here in Darwin. You try 94 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 2: living on one of these remote communities, the damage that 95 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 2: it causes to members being on call. When the department 96 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 2: says they're not on call, Well they are, Katie, They're 97 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 2: on call twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. 98 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 1: We absolutely, I mean, both my parents lived have lived 99 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: in remote communities. My dad's passed away, but you know, 100 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: my mum still lives out in a remote community, you know, 101 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,559 Speaker 1: and they've lived in whatever they've lived in, man and Greeta. 102 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: Some of them function beautifully, you know, like a little town. 103 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: Others there's some serious issues and you spot on. You 104 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: don't go off call. I would imagine for the police 105 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: see getting phone calls at any hour of the day 106 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: and night because you know, the community then needs them, 107 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: relies on them, wants them. But that has a huge 108 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: toll on people. 109 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 2: So when their assistant commissioner gives evidence at a coronial inquest, 110 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 2: it's not accurate to what's actually happening on the ground. 111 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 2: Our members get quite frustrated. We're overwhelmed with calls, especially 112 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 2: from our remote colleagues out in remote area saying well, 113 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 2: that's not actually how what's happening? 114 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: So what had been set? 115 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 2: They're saying that there's risk assessments done in relationship to 116 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 2: that they're being called out there. Fatigue management's being managed, Katie, 117 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 2: it's not. I had a member contact me that had 118 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 2: done twenty seven hours overtime in two days and then 119 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 2: expected to carry another police district for the following night. 120 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 2: That's not acceptable and the burnout fact is huge remote 121 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 2: areas and the pressure that they've been placed under with 122 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 2: no resources or ability to respond to incidents. It highlights 123 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 2: the dangers that our members have face. 124 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: And Finny, what's that inquest heard in regards to post 125 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 1: traumatic stress disorder as well and support for officers a 126 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: lot of. 127 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 2: That stuff, the support for officers. There was evidence presented 128 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 2: that they still haven't got the capacity to actually conduct 129 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 2: the well being services and make sure the health and 130 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 2: wellbeing of our members are being there and the checks 131 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 2: aren't being conducted. They're under resource. We heard that evidence 132 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 2: being presented and they haven't done anything about it since 133 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 2: in the three years since Michael had sadly passed away. 134 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 2: We live on that event still lives on with myself 135 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 2: personally having worked with his brother Tony quite closely there 136 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:48,559 Speaker 2: at Palmerston for six years together. Yeah, we're representing the family, 137 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 2: the NTPA representing the family legally in this matter, and 138 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 2: also the NTPA as well. We've had the family here. 139 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 2: It's heartbreaking, Katie that they haven't seen the light. They've 140 00:06:57,880 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 2: had an opportunity to fix it. It hasn't been fed. 141 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 2: The system's still broken. Our members aren't getting the health 142 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 2: and well being support that they need. 143 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: Finny, I mean my understanding, and you've already spoken about this, 144 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: you know in terms of the resourcing. We know that 145 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: Constable Doutrum want well, he had that kin tour posting 146 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: and there was frustrations about a lack of resources in 147 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: the force and extra pressures associated with the coronavirus pandemic. 148 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: A lack of resourcing is something that you and I 149 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: talk about on this show all the time. I mean, 150 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: how lock where are things out when you look at 151 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: our resourcing, Because even when we talk about the issues 152 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: in Catherine right in recent weeks and people calling for 153 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,679 Speaker 1: palis on those bottle shops, I think the police would 154 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: like to be able to have palis operating and being 155 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: you know, here, there and everywhere. But the worry is, 156 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: or the fact is, we just don't have the numbers 157 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: to do it. 158 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 2: And as you talk about the PALI positions, I'm one 159 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 2: totally against it that the polic shouldn't be doing it, 160 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 2: and lick A licensing spectors and that sort of stuff 161 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 2: should be doing. Regardless of that, it has an impact 162 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 2: on what we deal with in the community. So it 163 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 2: has got its place definitely, but I don't think it's 164 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: believed for police. But putting back into reality of the 165 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 2: remote policing location, I believe there was up to twenty 166 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 2: six vacancies that we had in our remote areas as 167 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 2: of two weeks ago, Katie, that we're advertised we're seeing 168 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: huge numbers regardless of the commitment that had been made 169 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: previously at all our bush stations were going to be 170 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 2: made three person stations because of the workload some years ago. 171 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 2: That still hasn't occurred, and there's a number of reasons 172 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 2: why that, such as adequate housing available again to get 173 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 2: that work life balance which our members are craving. They 174 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 2: need those extra resource in our remote areas. They are 175 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 2: really struggling out there. And it's not saying that our 176 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 2: guys in town aren't struggling and they want to be there. Again, 177 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 2: there's different opportunities for those guys and they're under a 178 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 2: lot of pressure as well, and especially an investigative section 179 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 2: because crimes through the roof. We're responding to more jobs 180 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 2: than ever we have been with a police force that's 181 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 2: under resource, Katie. And when you tail that with a 182 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 2: morale that's low because of a wage off it's been given, 183 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 2: it's unfortunately, it's going to be a perfect storm for 184 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 2: this government if they don't do something about it. 185 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:07,599 Speaker 1: Finny. In terms of the inquest, it was set to 186 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 1: run for five days. Where are things at now? 187 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we were meant to run for five days, Katie. 188 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 2: We had an adjournment as of Thursday afternoon last week, 189 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:18,839 Speaker 2: after we had the institutional response and got to question 190 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 2: that and heard the evidence presented, we're looking at coming 191 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 2: back on the first of August to get some professional 192 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 2: evidence provided in relation to mental health side of things 193 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 2: and reports and to review that, and then the following 194 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 2: fortnit as well on the twelfth and thirteenth of August 195 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 2: as well. It's due to be scheduled and then at 196 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 2: a time there will be obviously submissions from both sides 197 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 2: and a review of all the information and recommendations. 198 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: Does that drag the process out? I mean, does it? 199 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: And does it make it hard on the family and 200 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: on all of you involved? 201 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 2: It does, And before last week we're a highlighter that 202 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 2: the police weren't ready to obviously commence that coronial process 203 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: and they wanted to place it off and we're very 204 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 2: much considered. We don't want to do this at hoc. 205 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 2: We don't want a piecemeal approach. We want to make 206 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 2: sure that done appropriately. We're given the time to review 207 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 2: all the events available, the evidence is presented in that 208 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 2: coronial factor. We know what the issues are. We just 209 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 2: need to hear the coroner needs to hear what the 210 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 2: issues are and what the impact is that having on 211 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 2: our members, because in reality, that's where our members are 212 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 2: struggling with and they struggle with it day in, day out, 213 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 2: and more emphasized in our remote areas when it's so 214 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 2: under resourced and got staff moving between stations. We've got 215 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 2: staff relieving from one remote station to another remote station, 216 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 2: leaving families behind in one remote station to go and 217 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 2: work at another one. It's any wonder we're struggling to 218 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 2: get our members out remote Katie and that's our high 219 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 2: risk area. We're seeing that well. 220 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: And all the while, then we're still talking about all 221 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: the issues that are occurring in our major town centers. 222 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: You know, we're seeing flare ups and the likes of 223 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 1: Alice Springs and the likes of Catherine even here in 224 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: the top end in Darwin, in Nightcliff for example. So 225 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: you know, it's a juggle. It sounds like it's a 226 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: massive juggle. How many extra police do we need, Finny, 227 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: We're where our police numbers at. 228 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 2: So those numbers, we've currently got around seventeen hundred and 229 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 2: sixty eight I believe members in the Northern Territory Police Force. 230 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 2: That's slightly up from where we were when we had 231 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:14,719 Speaker 2: the two hundred announced. Again, we're seeing attrition very much 232 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 2: the members. We're hoping for this retention payment, everything else 233 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 2: their goods, consent agreement negotiation with this government and they're 234 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 2: making decisions to move. At this point in time, a 235 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 2: lot of members are contacting us say we can't keep 236 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 2: waiting for this, Katie, we can't keep waiting for a 237 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 2: big pay deal from this government. We're looking at going 238 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 2: into state. Our membership and our police are well respected 239 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 2: right across Australia within the volume of work we do, 240 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 2: the understanding of exposure we have to a lot of 241 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 2: stuff in policing, so they're very valuable to other jurisdictions 242 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 2: right across Australia. 243 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: So how pivotal is it that this pay negotiation gets 244 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: sorted out sooner rather than later. 245 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 2: It's very important to our members, Katy, and we're pushing 246 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 2: for that. We have our meeting, We've got another meeting 247 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 2: schedule for tomorrow. At this point in time. Again, my 248 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 2: meetings with the Chief Minister, that's probably the first time 249 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 2: I've seen her for a little while. Between meeting. She 250 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 2: canceled all my meetings with her. As we're going through 251 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 2: this consentergroup. She doesn't want to speak to me about 252 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 2: the consent agreement negotiations. Again, we want to be back 253 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 2: at that table to have this relationship so we can 254 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 2: improve the conditions. And also legislation to support our police 255 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 2: is vitally important. But we need to get this pay 256 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 2: deal done sooner rather than later because our members are 257 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 2: going to leave in droves. 258 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: Finny, Just a really quick one in terms of what's 259 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: going on in Catherine at the moment. The Mayor, Liz 260 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,439 Speaker 1: Clark has called for a review into the opening hours 261 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: of takeaway liquor outlets. Would that help the police in 262 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: any way? 263 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 2: Reducing alcohol consumption and reducing the availability of alcohol has 264 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 2: a huge effect on our policing and a huge effect 265 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 2: on our policing response. But unfortunately we're seeing a Catherine 266 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 2: Police station that's very much under resourced and has been 267 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,079 Speaker 2: for some time. They are trying to pull their resource 268 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 2: into appropriate areas to target. Again, they have only got 269 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 2: a search capacity for a short period of time before 270 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 2: they have to revert back to their normal operations, and 271 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 2: that takes away from people from their nominal roles that 272 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 2: we're doing their norminal roles and put further pressure back 273 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 2: on them when they return to their normal roles. So 274 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 2: again it's not sustainable. Again short short time, But unfortunately 275 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 2: Catherine needs resources and they're trying to provide that attention 276 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 2: to highlight that our member struggle down there daily. And 277 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 2: they haven't got the remote staff to relieve out at 278 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,199 Speaker 2: remote stations from Catherine, which they normally do as well, 279 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 2: which is hampering those the remote areas as well across 280 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 2: the Timber Creek area of VRD across those areas. 281 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,319 Speaker 1: All right, we've got to get this issue sorted. I mean, 282 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: in terms of the pay negotiation. I know that some 283 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: people out there listening might be going, hey, we'll fore 284 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: our police already get paid a lot of money. I 285 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: get that, but we need to get this sort of 286 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 1: we need the number of police to deal with the 287 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: issues that we're experiencing across the Northern Territory right now. 288 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: And again I know can't always fall at the hands 289 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: of the police, but at the moment it bloody will 290 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: seems to. 291 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 2: As I always say, Katie, to those people that think 292 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 2: we get paid too much to put our shoes on 293 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 2: for a day and come out and experience what we 294 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,959 Speaker 2: deal with and the especially the remote areas and investigative sections. 295 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 2: They're all overworked, definitely. They are struggling on a day 296 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 2: to day basis. We're making sure that we want to 297 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 2: support them and going forward and what we have to 298 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 2: deal with and that's where my support is. 299 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: President of the Police Association here in the Northern Territory 300 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: Nathan Finn. Always good to catch up with you. 301 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you, Katie and everyone out there, the 302 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 2: men and women in blue that choose to pull on 303 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 2: the uniform every day. We say thank you and we're 304 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 2: here to support you and make sure we get that 305 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 2: fear deal for you guys. 306 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks Finny. We'll catch up again soon.