WEBVTT - LEVITICUS: INTERVIEW ADRIAN CHIARELLA 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:01.680 It's in the news today, but it was actually on 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:05.280 TV Reload, the podcast last week Their Life Yeaday, guys, 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:07.880 welcome back to TV Reload. My name is Benjamin Norris 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:10.080 and this year I've been unpacking some of the latest 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:13.080 releases with my co host Brosevard, and we have been 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:15.200 having a lot of fun doing this. But today I 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.000 have a very special episode because I reached out to 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:22.040 Adrian Chiarella, the writer and director of Leviticus. The film 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:24.840 has become one of this year's most talked about Australian 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:28.120 horror releases, premiering in sun Dance, where it sparked a 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:30.840 bidding war, so to speak, before being picked up by Neon, 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:34.560 the studio behind some of the most acclaimed independent films 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:37.080 in the world. But Leviticus is much more than a 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:40.120 horror film. It's a deeply personal coming of age story 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:44.000 that explores identity, faith, fear, and the lasting impact of 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:49.000 conversion practices wrapped inside an intensive, supernatural thriller. Sounds like 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:52.560 a lot because it is, but it is amazing. It's emotional, 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:56.400 it's quite confronting and beautifully crafted, and audiences around the 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.880 world have connected with its powerful messages. In this conversation, 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:03.960 Adrian opens up about his research behind preparing for this film, 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:06.600 what it was like premiering at sun Dance, working with 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:10.720 Joe Byrd, Mia, Wissi Kolska and the incredible cast, the 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:15.360 symbolism behind the film's terrifying monster, and why Australian horror 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:17.880 is enjoying one of its strongest. 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:19.080 Creative periods in decades. 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:22.679 This is one of those conversations that reminds you just 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:25.760 how powerful cinema can be. So, guys, here is our 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:32.000 chat with the writer and director of Leviticus. It's Adrian Chiarella. Congratulations, 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:35.280 my friend, on this response to Leviticus. Like, I have 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:37.800 been talking about a lot of horror films this year, 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:39.640 and I feel like a lot of us are talking 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:43.200 about tighter budgets and better storylines, and you're right at 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:46.200 the forefront of people talking very positively about your film. 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:47.280 Thank you so much. 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:50.000 Yeah, it's been a real It's been really nice to 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:52.840 see people's reactions to the films and people reacting very 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.640 personally to it as well. I think even though it's 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:59.279 a kind of elevated, fanciful concept with this supernatural monster, 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:01.160 that I think people will kind of get what the 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:04.240 metaphor is, and I think people are having quite a 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:06.440 personal connection to it, which is I mean, you can't 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:08.240 ask for more as a filmmaker, so. 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:10.400 Yeah, absolutely, I mean it must feel like a bit 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:12.280 of a journey as well, coming from Sundance. You know, 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:14.239 you turn up at Sundance, which always seems like a 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:18.400 dream for filmmakers, and then you get picked up by Neon. 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:21.000 What was that whole Sundance experience like for you? 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:23.400 It was just quite surreal, the whole thing. 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:26.720 We had finished the film, like literally just days before 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:28.639 we got on the plane, so no one had said 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.480 I think I think the only person who saw it 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:34.760 I think our post production supervisor said she showed her partner, 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:36.120 and her partner was very. 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:37.560 Moved by, like she secretly showed her. 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:39.400 But no one else had seen it, and so I 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:41.160 didn't really have a sense of like is this going 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:43.400 to work or not? And so we screened it at 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:45.920 midnight on the Friday, which is supposed to be like 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:49.720 the big that's like that was a very good slot apparently. Yeah, 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:52.400 when we got there, I remember I didn't really know, 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:54.600 like I didn't know who the who the heads of 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:56.280 the distributors are. I don't know how any of the 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:58.320 people are over there, but my producer certainly did. 0:02:58.360 --> 0:02:59.560 And as soon as we got into this. 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:02.600 Pact the act, she was like, everybody is here, like 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:04.560 that person there's from age twenty four and there from 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:07.520 ing on, and that person's from focus and so, you know, 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:09.560 it was real sort of pressure. But I think as 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.079 soon as it started, there's I mean, it's not really 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:14.480 a spoiler, there's sort of like an opening kind of 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.880 death scene, a sort of traditional horror cold open, and 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:20.240 I could feel people and hear people reacting to that, 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:22.640 and I thought, okay, okay, well we're going to be 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:26.040 all right through this. I think, you know, American audiences, 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:29.960 Sundance audiences in particular, they're very enthusiastic about genre films. 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:32.760 So it was quite a nice way to kick things off. 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.640 And then the rest of the festival was just this 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:39.720 crazy blur of a circus of meeting with people and 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.400 going into sort of like crowded parties, and yeah, it 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:44.240 was it was crazy. 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:48.440 Can we say bidding war? We'll say bidding war. You 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:50.040 don't have to confirm more Ton, but we'll just get 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:52.160 it out there. Hey what's going to happen? 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:54.680 And I can't talk. 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:56.640 About that, but I can tell you that, like be 0:03:56.840 --> 0:04:00.480 On people were very What surprised me is how much 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:02.760 they connected with the film. Like I just thought they'd 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:05.240 be business people who were just wanted to talk about numbers, 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:07.520 but they really, I don't know, They've got all this 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:10.640 stuff at the kind of like the queer history and 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:12.880 culture that we were pointing to in little moments in 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:14.360 the film and stuff, which is very cool. 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:14.840 Yeah. 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:16.919 Do you think the response from Sun Dance and then 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:20.760 Neon specifically, does it just reinforce I guess, your creativity 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:22.240 and what you want to make or is it just 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:24.640 saying this is what audiences want anyway, and they're taking 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:26.680 your art and saying, let's shell to the world because 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:27.360 the world's ready. 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:27.960 Yeah. 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:30.760 I mean it was quite encouraging, I think because it 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:33.400 is a bit of a kooky idea and so for 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:35.480 the whole the whole way through the process, I. 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.120 Was like, is this even gonna work? So you keep that. 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:41.400 Initial like that initial audience reaction from I think it's 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:42.920 about three or f one hundred people they have in 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:44.680 that theater, But just to get that initial reaction and 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:47.120 then to have people actually, you know, be willing to 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:48.920 put their money with their mouth this for it as well, 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:51.760 you kind of go, okay, okay, this is actually something. 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:55.040 It's actually a film that people will perhaps go to 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:57.520 a movie theater and pay money to see, which is 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.000 really cool. Like I think when you make independent films, 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.200 you just don't know. You don't know if you're going 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:04.280 to put all of his time and all of these 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:06.520 years into something and then have it just sort of 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:08.920 you know, pc by it seemed by maybe a few 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.560 hundred people and then that's it. So yeah, it was. 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.640 It was very very encouraging. It's still at the time, 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.200 I still was sort of waiting. I was waiting for 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:19.440 sort of I don't know, some reality to kick in. 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:21.320 People are going to watch it a second time and go, 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:22.960 oh no, it actually doesn't work. 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:24.520 Adrian, I've been a good story for you. 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:27.159 I was at the nov at like an eight thirty 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.960 in the morning screening, and they were doing a screening 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:34.400 in the cinema next door to Power Ballad. And I 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.360 had a critic in the cinema and the wrong cinema. 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:41.320 So I'm just going to tell you that the look 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:43.839 on his face suggested he was turning up for Power 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:45.600 Ballad and then he got the Viticars. 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:48.040 He stayed and watched it and loved it. 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:51.920 So look, you know, great, it permeates very quickly, like, yes, 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:54.400 it is a horror and you do have that cold opening, 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:58.560 but straight away you're like, this is more than standard horror, 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:00.760 and I'm curious. I mean, this film is a coming 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.320 of age story, it's a horror film. And then you 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.760 are also probably educating people on the term leviticus. How 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:09.400 have you been describing this film to people though? 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:12.839 I mean, I like to describe it as a coming 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:15.200 of age love story, Like that's what it is for me, 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:16.200 first and foremost. 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:16.960 It's always been that. 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.440 And I sort of tapped into horror as a genre 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:22.799 because it's what I loved when I was the same 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:25.520 age as these characters who I was writing about when 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:28.320 I was working on the script, and so the horror element, 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:31.040 it sounds so weird, but it actually kind of emerged 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:34.440 sort of organically through the whole process, I think, because 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:37.200 you know, I made this film that seemed to have 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:41.120 very heavy themes of homophobia in the story, and it 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:43.400 was kind of like, as a filmmaker, how do you 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.320 engage with fear? Will you go to the genre that's 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:49.200 all about fear, which is horror, which luckily was something 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:52.360 that I was always very passionate about. So that's kind 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:54.720 of how I describe it, sort of first and foremost 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:56.960 as this sort of love story between these two young men. 0:06:57.320 --> 0:06:59.000 The basis of the film, for You was based on 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.960 stories you're reading conversion practices, which are horrible, horrible things. 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:05.400 So it got a bit hooked on the idea of 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:08.640 like exorcisms being performed on queer teenagers and that it 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:11.920 was being done in lots of different cultures, not just Christianity. 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:15.080 And I started asking myself about sort of what they're 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:17.680 really doing, Like they claim they're something taking something out, 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:19.560 but then the more I sort of looked into it, 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:21.880 I was like, they're not. The reality is they're sort 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.280 of putting something in. They're kind of really like leaving 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.280 them with this sort of these scars when they do that. 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:29.480 And so that's where the idea came from. And then 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.200 there was another The other image that really stuck with 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.680 me in the research was I spoke to someone who 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:38.280 was actually from who had like, because I'm from I 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:40.600 have Chinese heritage on my mom's side of my family, 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:42.720 and I was speaking to someone who had twist parents 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:45.640 and their towerst parents took them to this priest who 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:49.200 like mind cutting the queerness off him like with a knife. 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:52.040 Like there was like, uh yeah, anyway that that sort 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:53.680 of stuff that and it just sort of made me 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:55.760 think about, yeah, practices. 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.160 That are just immediately traumatic. 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:01.600 So yeah, you know when I first and almost feel 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:03.680 like it's so weird when you're sharing something so personal 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:07.080 about this particular take. But like when I was coming out, 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:11.840 before I ever even experimented, I felt like something bad 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:14.240 would happen to me if I did it. So it's 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:17.520 such an interesting breeding ground for a conversation like this. 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:20.400 And I don't know how you feel about this, but 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:23.000 in some ways, I feel like the coming of age 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.720 story almost supersedes the horror in this. And I was 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.360 having a conversation with David Knox from TV Tonight, who 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:33.080 also was reviewing it, and I was curious about how 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:37.080 you balance horror with the queenness, Like I think that 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:39.040 balance would be really difficult to put together. 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:40.480 Yeah, it's interesting. 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:43.480 I think it was really just that I knew that 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.240 I'd landed on a premise that sort of would work, 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:49.600 like the horror movie, the horror movie Monster. The entity 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:52.920 and the rules around it seemed to mirror, as you're saying, 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:56.280 a lot of the experiences that we go through at 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.520 that stage in our lives. Even just the idea of, 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:03.280 you know, if you're growing up queer and you you're 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:05.480 attracted to someone, you have to know whether or not 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:08.120 they actually identified that way as well, And it's just 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:13.800 this doubly sort of it feels incredibly dangerous to express 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:16.080 how you feel about someone else, and are they just 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:17.640 going to hurt me if I tell them? 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:19.720 And so that, you know, like all of that. 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:23.319 Was tied into this sort of horror movie mythology as well. 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:24.360 So I think it. 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:27.160 Helped that I really kind of hit like I hit 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:29.200 on something that I really believed in that I believed 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:31.000 was kind of expressing what I was trying to say. 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:36.720 But that consideration of tonally just balancing is are we 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:37.600 too much in the horror? 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:39.240 Are we too much in the queer? 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:40.040 Yeah? 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:42.400 Yeah, I mean I've been telling a lot of people 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:44.600 we had a much much longer first act to this film, 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:46.680 and we didn't really get to that scene with Nicholas 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:48.560 Hope and the deliverance heal and all that. We didn't 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:50.320 really get to that till much later in the earlier 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.560 cuts of the film, and you know, we had a 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:57.640 much more complicated story between the two lead boys, just 0:09:57.679 --> 0:09:59.840 to sort of set everything up with them. But we 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:02.640 realized what I actually realized when I shot the film 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:04.079 and then when I got into the edit, is that 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:06.840 Joe Burden, Stacy class and were such incredible actors and 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:10.080 they had this incredible natural chemistry that I didn't need 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:12.760 to spend a lot of time setting up the attraction 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:13.719 between the two of them. 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:15.560 It was aaron in those opening scenes. 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.080 I think the way you handled the it's almost like 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:20.880 the I don't know, the masculine kind of bullying, but 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:22.600 teasing between the two of them. 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:25.520 That whole build up is so good and. 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.920 It feels realistic, and you're right, you don't need any 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:31.920 extra words. Their physicality and their chemistry is just amazing. 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.080 Setting up that well, you know, whether it goes one 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:35.520 way or another, and we know which way it goes, 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:37.480 it's just a beautiful way to do it right right. 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:41.080 And we did have more overt scenes of the bullying 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:43.000 involving other characters and all that sort of stuff, but 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:43.600 it sort of. 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.520 Took away from the heart. Yeah, so, yeah, is. 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:48.520 It wrong for me to ask what, actually, can you 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:50.800 give us a little bit more detail on what was 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:52.240 put from the setup? 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:56.360 A little bit more bullying from Ryan and Hunter, who's 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:58.280 the character that's the pastor's son. There was a little 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:01.440 bit more of that overtly going on, and then you 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:03.040 sort of had that and that. But what it did 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:05.400 is created this whole other mini arc that we had 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:07.800 to go through because we had to see that. We 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:09.760 had to see the boys sort of fight and have 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:11.880 been this argument and then make up again and then 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:14.120 he gets sort of betrayed by the past. So it 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.559 was sort of like we had an extra mini movie 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.840 within the film, and so it just sort of dragged 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:21.040 on and on and on for a bit, and it 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:23.040 was just a big ask of everyone. But they were 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:25.520 very beautiful scenes. One day and people keep asking me 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:26.120 to release them. 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:26.760 Maybe one day. 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:28.760 You know you've got a good movie. When people are 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:32.480 already asking you for the director your cinemas, You're like, 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:33.640 you know what. 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:34.400 I have to say. 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.800 One of my favorite favorite shots that I have in 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:40.280 the entire shoot, my favorite shot that the entire shoot 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:42.480 actually is in one of those deleted scenes. And so 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:44.480 it is a big thing is a filmmaker, I have 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:46.600 to you know, people told me, and I always thought 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:49.800 it was just a philosophical, dumb you know, teachers thing 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:51.480 that they tell you that you have to be prepared 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:53.560 to lose your favorite scene or your favorite shot, And 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:55.520 I really did have to cut my favorite shot to 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:56.160 do it. 0:11:58.600 --> 0:11:59.240 True. 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:00.520 Yeah, I can feel that pain. 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:03.440 So in this film that the monster's not just terrifying, 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:07.160 like it's not just this incredible bad character that's you know, 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:11.240 destroying people. It weaponizes love and attraction, which is amazing, 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:13.040 and you build that between the two main characters and 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.040 then the bad guy takes advantage of it. It's just fantastic, 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:18.400 very unique. How long did you arrive that idea or 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:19.800 did you start from there and build out? 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:23.240 Yeah, I mean the concept was I mean sort of 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.160 like I was saying before, I'd just been looking at 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:29.520 different conversion therapy practices and when I had hit on 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.720 this idea of like, okay, so well, I discovered this 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:35.840 idea that exorcisms were performed on queer teenagers and that 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:38.360 it's not really I think at first I was like, 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.160 I'm going to do a queer version of the Exorcist, 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:43.320 and which sounded like a cool thing, Like you go 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:44.600 to parties and people are. 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:45.320 Like, what are you working on? 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.199 And you give you a little thirty second pitch and 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:49.920 everyone's like, wow, that's so exciting. But then you go 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:51.480 home and you sit in front of your computer and 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:52.840 you're like, how am I actually going to ride that? 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:55.520 And I started asking myself why does a queer version 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:57.559 of the Exorcis not work for me? And I thought, Oh, 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.920 it's because I'm perpetuating the myth that they're creating, which 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.800 is that there's something, there's a gay demon that needs 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:07.079 to be removed. And I landed on that thing I 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:09.560 talked about before. It's like, oh no, it's not like 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:12.280 something's being exercised out of them, it's being put in them. 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:14.800 Then I started thinking, well, what's the opposite of what 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.840 they're really claiming to do, and it's actually it's that 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.000 they're scaring them out of their desires, and so that 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.360 I thought of this, Okay, well they're going to curse 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:28.000 them with this entity that takes the form of the 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:30.960 person you're most attracted to. And once I had that, 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:33.840 then I went okay, great, now we can focus on 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:36.240 the love story, like who are these two characters that 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:38.480 are attracted to each other, and what do I want 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:39.839 to write about them, and what do I want to 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:41.199 explore with those characters. 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:43.440 I don't mean to be too personal and delve into 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:46.480 your own space, but I just think it comes across 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:49.560 so deeply personal this film. I believe that there must 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:52.880 be some of your own life, real world time, that 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:54.960 you've had experiences with some of this. 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:55.920 Growing up. 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.960 What was your take on as a gay man. Was 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:03.960 there moments where religion, community opinion, and people's expectations made 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.680 you feel like that you needed to hide parts about yourself. 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:12.480 My parents, they're both very proud atheists, but they both 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:15.760 come families that had a lot of religion, a lot 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.520 of Christianity in them and from different parts of the world. 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:21.600 But weirdly, even though they were such staunch atheists, they 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.160 still sent me to a religious school, and so that 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:26.560 was I think it just happened to be the school 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:28.240 that they thought would be the best one for me. 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.760 And I remember one year I won the Divinity Prize 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:34.760 and my mom was like, you're okay, like what is 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:37.640 going on here? And I remember telling her like, I 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:40.040 just really loved the stories. And I think, I mean, 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:42.120 I was what thirteen or fourteen At the time, I 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:44.080 think it was a sign of like a filmmaker in 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.960 me that just sort of loved mythology and loved you know. 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:49.960 I guess nowadays, you know, this is back in the 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.040 sort of nineties, Like I guess now we have so 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.640 much access to every comic book, hero story, all that 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:56.080 sort of stuff. But at the time, it's like when 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:59.040 you're thirteen fourteen and people are putting these kind of 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:01.520 mythological stories is in front of you, with these big 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:04.560 sort of parables and archetypes, I think you kind of 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.080 if there's a storyteller in you, you really get drawn 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:11.280 to that. But I saw a lot of people around me, 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:16.680 friends and family, having to struggle with their sexuality and 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.520 religion and institutionized from religion and that kind of thing. 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.480 So it all kind of went hand in hand with that. 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:26.120 But I guess so yeah, So the personal side is 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:29.360 that is a lot of friends and family directly going through. 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:30.840 These these issues. 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.120 But then I guess also the knowledge of biblical mythology 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:36.800 and imagery that's in the film comes from that. That 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.000 thirteen year old kid that won the Divinity Prize for. 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:42.680 Like it was a therapeutic at all, like with some 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:46.320 somehow exploring this subject matter was that interesting. That didn't 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.200 feel like I'd opened up any old wounds from when 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:50.280 you were growing up and did it helped heal them, 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:50.920 so to speak. 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:53.360 There were certain things that I remember being therapy. I 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:54.200 still remember. 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:57.360 I mean, I can't remember it vividly to really exactly 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.360 explain what it is. But there was something about up 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:03.200 with the scene. I mean, this is a touch spoilery. 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:04.880 It's near the end of the scene where Brian says 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.280 I wanted to look like you. There was something about 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.760 that that I remember just being. 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:14.360 It came quite late in the process of writing. 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:15.720 I think it was one of the very very last 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:17.960 drafts that I figured out he needed to say that, 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:22.480 and it just came from a place of really asking myself, 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:24.640 Like I think, I think there's that thing of when 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:26.880 you write a script people always talk about or if 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:28.360 you're an actor, or if you're a creative or you 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.120 have to ask yourself, what if what if this was true? 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:31.800 What if that? You know? 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:34.440 And I guess the what if on this film was 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.680 what if they claimed to have a cure to same 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.600 sex attraction? And I guess you have to be willing 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.680 to really really go there, like as so as a 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:46.400 gay man, I had to really really ask myself what 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.840 if it actually did work, or what if this character 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:52.000 really did believe it worked. So that was where I 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:53.880 sort of came to this idea of Okay, well then 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.920 the attraction is so strong that he's willing to say, well, 0:16:56.960 --> 0:16:58.560 I want it to look like you even if this 0:16:58.640 --> 0:16:59.480 thing is real. 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.480 It can be quite confronting writing a script in a 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:03.120 lot of ways. 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:05.040 Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, as you said at the 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:07.800 start of our conversation, the extension of you writing this 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:11.359 film then presenting this film is that people will approach 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:15.680 you with their experiences, their trauma. As it feel receiving 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:17.920 that from people, and did you expect that going in 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:20.400 that you might actually then have to handle those kinds 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.480