WEBVTT - How is Australia tracking towards net zero? 0:00:01.200 --> 0:00:03.520 My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:08.520 bunjelung Caalcuttin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:10.800 that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:14.360 Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:17.279 Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:20.079 first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:28.000 Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Thursday, 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:30.800 the ninth of November. I'm Sam, I'm Zara. The Treasurer 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:33.640 Jim Chalmers has indicated we need to be doing more 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:37.120 to ensure we have enough renewable energy to meet our targets. 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:40.240 When we talk about the climate, we often talk about 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:43.640 how Australia is tracking in reaching net zero, but what 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:46.560 does net zero even mean? How do we get there? 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:49.680 And how well is Australia tracking towards that goal. 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:52.440 We're not on track. We've seen some positive steps in 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:54.880 the last year, but goodness we've got a lot more 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:55.200 to do. 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:58.360 Simon Bradshaw, head of Research at the Climate Council, is 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:00.600 going to help us answer some of those questions in 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:03.600 today's deep dive, but first, I couldn't use my phone 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:04.960 yesterday you couldn't. 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:07.200 We all went a bit back in time, or at 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:09.920 least those of us who are Optus customers. There was 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:13.000 a major Optis outage for a number of hours, but 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:16.560 in the afternoon yesterday the company did confirm it had 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:20.880 begun restoring services. For the whole morning, mobile coverage, data, 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:25.160 phone and internet services were disrupted across the country. It's 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:27.720 not yet clear what caused the outage, though a fault 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:30.240 deep in the core of the Optus network is said 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:31.000 to have caused it. 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.839 Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi has arrived in the Cook Islands 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:39.160 for the Pacific Islands Forum. This will be Albanesi's first 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:42.039 visit to the region as Prime Minister and his second 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:46.280 Pacific Islands Forum. Climate change and security matters are expected 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:50.000 to be discussed amongst leaders from eighteen different Pacific countries. 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:54.560 META and the Australian Federal Police will pun on a 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:58.800 program to raise awareness about online sex stortion among younger 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:02.920 people familiar with the term sextortion is a word to 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:06.560 describe when a person is tricked into sending sexual images 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:10.200 online and then blackmailed or threatened by whoever they sent 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:14.000 the image to a social media awareness campaign will promote 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:17.560 educational quizzes and videos about sextortion. 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:22.000 And today's good news. A rare lizard in northeast Queensland 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:24.520 has been spotted by scientists for the first time in 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:28.560 forty two years. All three species of the grassland stripped 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:32.720 skink were spotted three hundred kilometers south of Cans. It's 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:35.960 been hailed as an amazing discovery that will support further 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:42.040 research into the species. Okay, Zara, it's been a little 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:44.600 while on the podcast since we've given you an update 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:48.240 on how we're tracking in terms of our renewable energy targets. 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:50.400 In some of that, I think that we've ever spoken 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:50.840 about it. 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:52.600 I think we talked about it in the context of 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.080 the federal election and the new Albanzi government. That's how 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:55.800 far back it was. 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:59.480 Yeah, But I think that we often talk about commitments 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:02.799 and time and i'd say very rarely actually stand back 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:04.760 to look at you know. I think people have short 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.200 memories and we're told something and it's committed to, but 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:11.560 very rarely, i'd say, do we as the media actually 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:15.120 follow up on seeing how we're tracking as a country 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:15.840 against those. 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:18.560 Targets, especially outside of the context of an election. We 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:20.560 know they're going to be talked about at election time, 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.440 but we're not near an election now. And last week 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.000 the Treasurer Jim Chalmers gave a speech where he said 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.240 we need to be doing more to ensure we have 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:30.840 enough renewable energy to meet our targets. 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:35.240 So you're speaking there about emissions reductions target. So the 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:38.440 government has set one of those targets, and I'll say 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.320 it's the longer term target. We're in twenty twenty three. 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:43.760 Now this is a twenty fifty target, but it's to 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:47.160 reach net zero by twenty fifty. Can you just talk 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:49.080 me through what that commitment looks like. 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:52.680 First, Yeah, so net zero means the amount of carbon 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:56.160 that we're pumping into the atmosphere through the ways that 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:59.120 we burn energy is equal to the amount of carbon 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.720 taken out of the atmosphere, and it is a really 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:07.720 fine balancing act. We release carbon emissions through things like trains, planes, cars, 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:10.240 even things like cooking up a meal, heating something up 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:12.800 in the microwave, and they would all need to be 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.440 canceled out by the amount of carbon that we take 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:16.520 out of the atmosphere. 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.360 We always used to speak about it as a bath tub. 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:21.919 Yeah, where the sinkhole is letting water out of the 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.400 bath as quickly as water is being poured into the bath. 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:27.280 So then the question becomes, well, how do you take 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:30.200 carbon out of the atmosphere? And that can be done 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:33.880 through things like planting trees, but also through technology like 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.520 carbon capturing. And if you want to know more about 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.120 how that kind of technology could work, I'm going to 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:41.200 throw a link into they's show notes to an episode 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.400 we've done called Dumping Carbon at the Bottom of the Ocean. 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:47.599 But a net zero world, which is essentially what we're 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:51.800 all working towards, is ultimately where there's no carbon going 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:53.040 into the atmosphere at. 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:56.440 All, all right, And that is aspirationally what we are 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:58.719 looking at for the future, a world in which that 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:01.800 is happening. The government has said that that could be 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:03.320 happening by twenty fifty. 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.640 Yeah. And the way that I always think about those 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:09.800 types of timelines is my own age. So I'm twenty six. 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:14.480 I was thinking about your age. So I'm twenty eight 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:16.760 and you're twenty six, And in twenty fifty, when this 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:19.000 goal is meant to be hit, I'll be fifty four 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.080 and you'll be fifty two. Now, in order to get 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:23.480 to a point where you and I are in our 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:27.080 mid fifties and there's net zero, there's some key targets 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.000 the government says we need to meet along the way. 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:31.680 So what they've done is they've also set some targets 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:35.120 for twenty thirty, and an important target there is that 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:39.360 eighty two percent of energy generation will come from renewable sources. 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:41.720 And the aim is that we would have reduced our 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.640 missions by forty three percent below the two thousand and 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:46.520 five levels by that twenty thirty point. 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:50.160 All right, So it's almost this game of incrementalism, as 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:54.280 it were, because we've got this twenty thirty target that 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:56.839 we actually need to be very close to meetings soon. 0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:59.200 We're already in twenty twenty three, six and a half years. 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:02.719 How is the government saying we're going on meeting that target? 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:05.000 The target that they set at the last election. 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:08.120 Well, let's zone in on the eighty two percent number. 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:11.320 So they wanted eighty two percent of energy generation to 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:13.320 come from renewables by twenty thirty. 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:13.920 Twenty thirty. 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:17.599 Yeah, So currently government data shows renewables like wind and 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:20.760 solar are making up about thirty three percent of Australia's 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.520 energy generation. That's a long way off that eighty two 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:24.160 percent number. 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:26.320 I can't do maths, but that seems really far. 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:28.760 We'd need to more than double and there's only six 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:30.720 and a half years or six and a bit years 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:33.320 to go until that goal. So I guess the question 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:35.720 then is can we even do that? Can we more 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:40.080 than double how much renewable energy we're using by twenty thirty? 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:44.440 And the news isn't great. So Clean Energy Advisory Group 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:48.520 NESA has found its quote extremely unlikely that Australia will 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:52.320 achieve that twenty thirty target. Similarly, a report from Riistad 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.080 Energy has estimated that this rate, we're going to get 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:58.240 to sixty four percent renewable generation by the end of 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:01.960 the decade. So basically, based on how things are going now, 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:04.719 the energy experts aren't confident we're going to get there. 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.200 If they're not confident we'll get to twenty thirty, presumably 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:12.000 that would have a knock on effect to our chances 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:14.680 of reaching net zero by twenty fifty. 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:18.040 Right, it's a really good question. So one of our journalists, 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:21.760 Harry Seklic, reached out to an expert, doctor Simon Bradshaw, 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:24.480 and he's the head of research at the Climate Council. 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:25.720 We've got a lot of work to do. 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:29.280 We're not on track, Doctor Bradshaw said. Some progress has 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:32.559 been made, there are more renewables in the energy grid, 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:34.320 but he did say that we're not going to get 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:37.000 to net zero unless things speed up rapidly. 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:41.800 It means moving from what has been some small steps 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:45.400 so far to a real step change, a quantum leap 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:47.680 if you like, when it comes to the pace that 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:50.680 we really need to be rolling out these solutions. All right. 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:53.560 So that's an expert point of view on how Australia 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:55.560 is going. Of course, we know that when it comes 0:07:55.640 --> 0:08:00.200 to climate it's not an Australia unique problem, that it's 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.480 one that the whole world needs to fight together. How 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:05.760 are we going compared to the rest of the world. 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:10.120 Well, overall, Australia is ranking fairly low in our emissions 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:11.760 targets and progress. 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:13.640 Just full of good news today. 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:16.320 I know it's not a bright episode, but it's important 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:19.240 and worth talking about. So the latest Climate Change Performance 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:22.320 Index has Australia ranked in the bottom ten for emissions. 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:26.400 The index ranked Australia is having higher emissions than places 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:30.240 like India, the UK, and China, and it was critical 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:34.199 of Australia's continued colon gas mining and subsidies that are 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:38.160 offered to fossil fuel companies. And Australia was additionally called 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.120 out as part of the G twenty countries responsible for 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:43.400 three quarters of global emissions. 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:47.160 So against that context, we've heard Australia might not be 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.160 on track to meet it's emissions targets. 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:52.400 Is the world more generally on track? 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:55.600 Well, pretty much every government is tackling their own net 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:59.280 zero challenges, and ultimately, in order for everyone to reach 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:02.400 their goals by twenty fifty, UN scientists have called for 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:06.000 what they describe as a complete transformation of the industries 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:08.480 to reach net zero, and most of that is going 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:11.160 to have to come from reducing reliance on fossil fuels 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.080 for heating and cooling. And the reason why that's so important, 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:15.840 why that kind of holds the key to all of this, 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.280 is because three quarters of the world's emissions come from 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:23.200 energy generation. So overall, the UN doesn't have good news. 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:25.920 They say that the world won't reach net zero by 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:30.240 twenty fifty because most governments haven't made commitments significant enough 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.480 to reduce screenhouse gas emissions and. 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:35.160 I guess even if they do have those targets, it 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.520 appears that even if you have them, you might not 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:38.160 be getting there. 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:41.319 Yeah, definitely, and I think some of the discussions around 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:43.640 the twenty thirty targets really drive that point home. 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:46.840 I mean, we started a steep dive based on a 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:50.680 quote by Jim Chalmers, our Federal treasure about the fact 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.560 that more needs to be done in order for Australia 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:57.600 to meet its emissions reductions targets. I do think that 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:00.360 there is an element of irony in those comments though, 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:04.080 that we are hearing this from the Federal Treasurer, whose government. 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:06.600 You know, while they've only been in power for what 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:10.440 is a year and a half, they are responsible for 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:13.040 getting the country to a place where we are meeting 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:16.960 those emissions reductions targets and implementing the right policies. And 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:19.000 I mean, we've spoken a number of times on this 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:22.160 podcast about the fact that the government is still approving 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.440 oil and gas projects and that that perhaps is slowing 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:29.800 down our country's progress against these milestones. I'm curious to 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:32.560 see whether the government will have any kind of major 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:36.280 departure from the policy it has now If it gets 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:38.440 closer and closer to twenty thirty and it's clear or 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:39.000 not on track. 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:40.920 And that's a question we should continue to put to 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:43.960 them as we get closer to twenty thirty, is are 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:46.000 we going to reach those goals? And if we get 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:48.160 to a point where they answer with no, we're not 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:50.040 going to reach them. There needs to be a meaningful 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:54.800 discussion about what happens next. Thanks for joining us for 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:57.559 this episode of The Daily OS. If you learn something 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:00.320 from the episode, there's one super small task you can 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:03.360 do in five seconds that will mean the world to us. 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:06.560 Just throw this podcast on your Instagram stories and tell 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.280 your Instagram followers how much you rated it. We'll be 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:16.920 back again tomorrow. Until then, have a great day.