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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: bunjelung Caalcuttin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Thursday,

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Speaker 2: the ninth of November. I'm Sam, I'm Zara. The Treasurer

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Speaker 2: Jim Chalmers has indicated we need to be doing more

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Speaker 2: to ensure we have enough renewable energy to meet our targets.

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Speaker 2: When we talk about the climate, we often talk about

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Speaker 2: how Australia is tracking in reaching net zero, but what

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Speaker 2: does net zero even mean? How do we get there?

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Speaker 2: And how well is Australia tracking towards that goal.

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Speaker 3: We're not on track. We've seen some positive steps in

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Speaker 3: the last year, but goodness we've got a lot more

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Speaker 3: to do.

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Speaker 2: Simon Bradshaw, head of Research at the Climate Council, is

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Speaker 2: going to help us answer some of those questions in

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Speaker 2: today's deep dive, but first, I couldn't use my phone

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Speaker 2: yesterday you couldn't.

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Speaker 4: We all went a bit back in time, or at

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Speaker 4: least those of us who are Optus customers. There was

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Speaker 4: a major Optis outage for a number of hours, but

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Speaker 4: in the afternoon yesterday the company did confirm it had

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Speaker 4: begun restoring services. For the whole morning, mobile coverage, data,

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Speaker 4: phone and internet services were disrupted across the country. It's

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Speaker 4: not yet clear what caused the outage, though a fault

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Speaker 4: deep in the core of the Optus network is said

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Speaker 4: to have caused it.

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi has arrived in the Cook Islands

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Speaker 2: for the Pacific Islands Forum. This will be Albanesi's first

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Speaker 2: visit to the region as Prime Minister and his second

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Speaker 2: Pacific Islands Forum. Climate change and security matters are expected

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Speaker 2: to be discussed amongst leaders from eighteen different Pacific countries.

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Speaker 4: META and the Australian Federal Police will pun on a

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Speaker 4: program to raise awareness about online sex stortion among younger

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Speaker 4: people familiar with the term sextortion is a word to

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Speaker 4: describe when a person is tricked into sending sexual images

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Speaker 4: online and then blackmailed or threatened by whoever they sent

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Speaker 4: the image to a social media awareness campaign will promote

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Speaker 4: educational quizzes and videos about sextortion.

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Speaker 2: And today's good news. A rare lizard in northeast Queensland

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Speaker 2: has been spotted by scientists for the first time in

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Speaker 2: forty two years. All three species of the grassland stripped

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Speaker 2: skink were spotted three hundred kilometers south of Cans. It's

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Speaker 2: been hailed as an amazing discovery that will support further

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Speaker 2: research into the species. Okay, Zara, it's been a little

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Speaker 2: while on the podcast since we've given you an update

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Speaker 2: on how we're tracking in terms of our renewable energy targets.

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Speaker 5: In some of that, I think that we've ever spoken

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Speaker 5: about it.

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Speaker 2: I think we talked about it in the context of

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Speaker 2: the federal election and the new Albanzi government. That's how

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Speaker 2: far back it was.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, But I think that we often talk about commitments

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Speaker 4: and time and i'd say very rarely actually stand back

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Speaker 4: to look at you know. I think people have short

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Speaker 4: memories and we're told something and it's committed to, but

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Speaker 4: very rarely, i'd say, do we as the media actually

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Speaker 4: follow up on seeing how we're tracking as a country

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Speaker 4: against those.

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Speaker 2: Targets, especially outside of the context of an election. We

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Speaker 2: know they're going to be talked about at election time,

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Speaker 2: but we're not near an election now. And last week

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Speaker 2: the Treasurer Jim Chalmers gave a speech where he said

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Speaker 2: we need to be doing more to ensure we have

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Speaker 2: enough renewable energy to meet our targets.

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Speaker 4: So you're speaking there about emissions reductions target. So the

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Speaker 4: government has set one of those targets, and I'll say

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Speaker 4: it's the longer term target. We're in twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 4: Now this is a twenty fifty target, but it's to

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Speaker 4: reach net zero by twenty fifty. Can you just talk

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Speaker 4: me through what that commitment looks like.

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Speaker 2: First, Yeah, so net zero means the amount of carbon

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Speaker 2: that we're pumping into the atmosphere through the ways that

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Speaker 2: we burn energy is equal to the amount of carbon

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Speaker 2: taken out of the atmosphere, and it is a really

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Speaker 2: fine balancing act. We release carbon emissions through things like trains, planes, cars,

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Speaker 2: even things like cooking up a meal, heating something up

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Speaker 2: in the microwave, and they would all need to be

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Speaker 2: canceled out by the amount of carbon that we take

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Speaker 2: out of the atmosphere.

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Speaker 5: We always used to speak about it as a bath tub.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, where the sinkhole is letting water out of the

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Speaker 2: bath as quickly as water is being poured into the bath.

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Speaker 2: So then the question becomes, well, how do you take

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Speaker 2: carbon out of the atmosphere? And that can be done

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Speaker 2: through things like planting trees, but also through technology like

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Speaker 2: carbon capturing. And if you want to know more about

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Speaker 2: how that kind of technology could work, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: throw a link into they's show notes to an episode

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Speaker 2: we've done called Dumping Carbon at the Bottom of the Ocean.

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Speaker 2: But a net zero world, which is essentially what we're

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Speaker 2: all working towards, is ultimately where there's no carbon going

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Speaker 2: into the atmosphere at.

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Speaker 4: All, all right, And that is aspirationally what we are

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Speaker 4: looking at for the future, a world in which that

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Speaker 4: is happening. The government has said that that could be

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Speaker 4: happening by twenty fifty.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And the way that I always think about those

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Speaker 2: types of timelines is my own age. So I'm twenty six.

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Speaker 2: I was thinking about your age. So I'm twenty eight

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Speaker 2: and you're twenty six, And in twenty fifty, when this

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Speaker 2: goal is meant to be hit, I'll be fifty four

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Speaker 2: and you'll be fifty two. Now, in order to get

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Speaker 2: to a point where you and I are in our

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Speaker 2: mid fifties and there's net zero, there's some key targets

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Speaker 2: the government says we need to meet along the way.

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Speaker 2: So what they've done is they've also set some targets

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Speaker 2: for twenty thirty, and an important target there is that

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Speaker 2: eighty two percent of energy generation will come from renewable sources.

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Speaker 2: And the aim is that we would have reduced our

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Speaker 2: missions by forty three percent below the two thousand and

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Speaker 2: five levels by that twenty thirty point.

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Speaker 4: All right, So it's almost this game of incrementalism, as

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Speaker 4: it were, because we've got this twenty thirty target that

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Speaker 4: we actually need to be very close to meetings soon.

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Speaker 4: We're already in twenty twenty three, six and a half years.

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Speaker 4: How is the government saying we're going on meeting that target?

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Speaker 4: The target that they set at the last election.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's zone in on the eighty two percent number.

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Speaker 2: So they wanted eighty two percent of energy generation to

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Speaker 2: come from renewables by twenty thirty.

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Speaker 5: Twenty thirty.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So currently government data shows renewables like wind and

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Speaker 2: solar are making up about thirty three percent of Australia's

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Speaker 2: energy generation. That's a long way off that eighty two

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Speaker 2: percent number.

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Speaker 5: I can't do maths, but that seems really far.

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Speaker 2: We'd need to more than double and there's only six

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Speaker 2: and a half years or six and a bit years

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Speaker 2: to go until that goal. So I guess the question

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Speaker 2: then is can we even do that? Can we more

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Speaker 2: than double how much renewable energy we're using by twenty thirty?

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Speaker 2: And the news isn't great. So Clean Energy Advisory Group

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Speaker 2: NESA has found its quote extremely unlikely that Australia will

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Speaker 2: achieve that twenty thirty target. Similarly, a report from Riistad

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Speaker 2: Energy has estimated that this rate, we're going to get

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Speaker 2: to sixty four percent renewable generation by the end of

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Speaker 2: the decade. So basically, based on how things are going now,

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Speaker 2: the energy experts aren't confident we're going to get there.

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Speaker 4: If they're not confident we'll get to twenty thirty, presumably

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Speaker 4: that would have a knock on effect to our chances

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Speaker 4: of reaching net zero by twenty fifty.

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Speaker 2: Right, it's a really good question. So one of our journalists,

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Speaker 2: Harry Seklic, reached out to an expert, doctor Simon Bradshaw,

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Speaker 2: and he's the head of research at the Climate Council.

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Speaker 3: We've got a lot of work to do.

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Speaker 2: We're not on track, Doctor Bradshaw said. Some progress has

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Speaker 2: been made, there are more renewables in the energy grid,

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Speaker 2: but he did say that we're not going to get

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Speaker 2: to net zero unless things speed up rapidly.

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Speaker 3: It means moving from what has been some small steps

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Speaker 3: so far to a real step change, a quantum leap

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Speaker 3: if you like, when it comes to the pace that

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Speaker 3: we really need to be rolling out these solutions. All right.

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Speaker 4: So that's an expert point of view on how Australia

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Speaker 4: is going. Of course, we know that when it comes

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Speaker 4: to climate it's not an Australia unique problem, that it's

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Speaker 4: one that the whole world needs to fight together. How

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Speaker 4: are we going compared to the rest of the world.

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Speaker 2: Well, overall, Australia is ranking fairly low in our emissions

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Speaker 2: targets and progress.

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Speaker 5: Just full of good news today.

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Speaker 2: I know it's not a bright episode, but it's important

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Speaker 2: and worth talking about. So the latest Climate Change Performance

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Speaker 2: Index has Australia ranked in the bottom ten for emissions.

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Speaker 2: The index ranked Australia is having higher emissions than places

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Speaker 2: like India, the UK, and China, and it was critical

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Speaker 2: of Australia's continued colon gas mining and subsidies that are

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Speaker 2: offered to fossil fuel companies. And Australia was additionally called

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Speaker 2: out as part of the G twenty countries responsible for

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Speaker 2: three quarters of global emissions.

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Speaker 4: So against that context, we've heard Australia might not be

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Speaker 4: on track to meet it's emissions targets.

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Speaker 5: Is the world more generally on track?

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Speaker 2: Well, pretty much every government is tackling their own net

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Speaker 2: zero challenges, and ultimately, in order for everyone to reach

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Speaker 2: their goals by twenty fifty, UN scientists have called for

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Speaker 2: what they describe as a complete transformation of the industries

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Speaker 2: to reach net zero, and most of that is going

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Speaker 2: to have to come from reducing reliance on fossil fuels

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Speaker 2: for heating and cooling. And the reason why that's so important,

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Speaker 2: why that kind of holds the key to all of this,

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Speaker 2: is because three quarters of the world's emissions come from

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Speaker 2: energy generation. So overall, the UN doesn't have good news.

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Speaker 2: They say that the world won't reach net zero by

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Speaker 2: twenty fifty because most governments haven't made commitments significant enough

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Speaker 2: to reduce screenhouse gas emissions and.

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Speaker 4: I guess even if they do have those targets, it

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Speaker 4: appears that even if you have them, you might not

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Speaker 4: be getting there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, and I think some of the discussions around

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Speaker 2: the twenty thirty targets really drive that point home.

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Speaker 4: I mean, we started a steep dive based on a

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Speaker 4: quote by Jim Chalmers, our Federal treasure about the fact

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Speaker 4: that more needs to be done in order for Australia

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Speaker 4: to meet its emissions reductions targets. I do think that

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Speaker 4: there is an element of irony in those comments though,

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Speaker 4: that we are hearing this from the Federal Treasurer, whose government.

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Speaker 4: You know, while they've only been in power for what

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Speaker 4: is a year and a half, they are responsible for

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Speaker 4: getting the country to a place where we are meeting

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Speaker 4: those emissions reductions targets and implementing the right policies. And

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Speaker 4: I mean, we've spoken a number of times on this

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Speaker 4: podcast about the fact that the government is still approving

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Speaker 4: oil and gas projects and that that perhaps is slowing

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Speaker 4: down our country's progress against these milestones. I'm curious to

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Speaker 4: see whether the government will have any kind of major

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Speaker 4: departure from the policy it has now If it gets

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Speaker 4: closer and closer to twenty thirty and it's clear or

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Speaker 4: not on track.

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Speaker 2: And that's a question we should continue to put to

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Speaker 2: them as we get closer to twenty thirty, is are

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Speaker 2: we going to reach those goals? And if we get

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Speaker 2: to a point where they answer with no, we're not

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Speaker 2: going to reach them. There needs to be a meaningful

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Speaker 2: discussion about what happens next. Thanks for joining us for

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Speaker 2: this episode of The Daily OS. If you learn something

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Speaker 2: from the episode, there's one super small task you can

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Speaker 2: do in five seconds that will mean the world to us.

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Speaker 2: Just throw this podcast on your Instagram stories and tell

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Speaker 2: your Instagram followers how much you rated it. We'll be

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Speaker 2: back again tomorrow. Until then, have a great day.