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Speaker 1: Joining us in the studio right now is the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territories KAC Commissioner Ken Fleming.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, morning Katie, and congratulations on your AO.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much.

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Speaker 2: You cool signed aoo.

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Speaker 1: No, thank you very much. Now now, I was surprised

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Speaker 1: over the Christmas break to see that you've decided that

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Speaker 1: you're going to retire. What made your decision.

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Speaker 2: I'm seventy five this year and forty four years of practice.

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Speaker 2: It's getting towards that time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and we all know you as the KAC Commissioner.

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Speaker 1: But you've got a long and illustrious career in law.

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Speaker 2: Long career, yeah, very long one, and I've done some

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Speaker 2: very interesting things. I've had a wonderful career out of

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Speaker 2: being a barrister in m QC.

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Speaker 1: Yeah wow. And so seventy five you thought now's the time,

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Speaker 1: but not quite yet. Six months. You're still here for

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Speaker 1: another six months.

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Speaker 2: Aren't you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to give the government ample time to find

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Speaker 2: a replacement, yep, because if they're looking for somebody who

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Speaker 2: is senior, they will have an obligation to unload obligations

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Speaker 2: that they've already got absolutely before they come.

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Speaker 1: Now, talk us through how things have been going, obviously

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Speaker 1: in your time as the IKA Commissioner. Where are things

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Speaker 1: out sort of at the moment, are you happy with

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Speaker 1: the progress that the office has made?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I am. And just a little bit of history.

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Speaker 2: I started on the first of July twenty eighteen, and

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Speaker 2: there was just me, and there was just me until

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Speaker 2: the beginning of two thousand and nineteen, except for three

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Speaker 2: staff members who came over from the old pid SO,

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Speaker 2: and that happened in November, the end of November. The

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Speaker 2: Act commenced at the end of November twenty eighteen, so

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Speaker 2: we had to set about building a whole office. The

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Speaker 2: original establishment had about twelve people. In fact, that proved

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Speaker 2: to be totally inadequate very quickly. And what we had

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Speaker 2: to do is to establish an office which is now

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Speaker 2: twenty nine people and we have the capacity to bring

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Speaker 2: in consultants to help us as well.

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Speaker 1: And so at the moment, how many I know you

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Speaker 1: and I have talked numbers on numerous occasions when you've

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Speaker 1: come into the studio. How many cases is the IKAK

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Speaker 1: investigating at the moment.

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Speaker 2: All right, I'll give you a couple of statistics. We

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Speaker 2: passed one thousand reports yesterday since the beginning of the

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Speaker 2: Act of that thousand reports two hundred and seventy four

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Speaker 2: allegations have been taken up by us to investigate in

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Speaker 2: some form or another. By that, I mean we are

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Speaker 2: doing some, but we also refer matters back into agencies.

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Speaker 2: We can refer matters to the police or to any

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Speaker 2: other investigative body who is somebody we can do, somebody

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Speaker 2: who's nominated under the Act that we can refer something to.

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Speaker 1: And so of that two hundred and seventy four, the

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Speaker 1: ones that you then have referred to other agencies sort

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Speaker 1: of what happens in those cases very often it seems

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Speaker 1: like they don't really become public.

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Speaker 2: Often they don't what we do, and this is something

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Speaker 2: which gives us a capacity to oversight and keep a

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Speaker 2: view of what's happening. We can give directions to that

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Speaker 2: agency on how to investigate, on what to investigate, and

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Speaker 2: then to report back to us on their findings, and

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Speaker 2: then what is their intention going forward from there?

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Speaker 1: And have you been satisfied with their responses as you've

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Speaker 1: done that, Yes, in.

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Speaker 2: The main, yes, I'm still not satisfied with the reporting

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Speaker 2: in the first place from all agencies. There are some

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Speaker 2: and you look at our statistics, and you look at

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Speaker 2: the source of the reports, and you think, but surely,

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Speaker 2: surely there would have been some report come to you

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Speaker 2: of improper conduct estified by the Act.

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Speaker 1: So do you reckon that there's departments at the moment

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Speaker 1: that maybe you have turned a blind eye to some

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Speaker 1: of some of the things that are being reported to

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Speaker 1: the IKAK.

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Speaker 2: Now, the i CAK isn't a popular body, and nobody

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Speaker 2: particularly wants somebody looking over their shoulder. And we're winning,

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Speaker 2: but there have been people who have been slow to

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Speaker 2: come on board.

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Speaker 1: Now there's been some fairly fairly big investigations that you've

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Speaker 1: obviously that have become quite public. You said, I think

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Speaker 1: you said that there's two hundred and seventy four allegations

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Speaker 1: which were taken up and then then going into different areas.

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Speaker 1: At the moment, are are there major investigations that you've

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Speaker 1: got underway that the office has got underway?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we should. I had to leave enough time to

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Speaker 2: complete matters that I'm looking at as well. That's the

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Speaker 2: other reason for giving such a long period of time.

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Speaker 2: There are five reports that we should hand down before

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Speaker 2: I leave, and there are another three matters which may

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Speaker 2: be coming close to completion before I leave as well.

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Speaker 2: Are there matters that we've chosen to make public?

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Speaker 1: So three that will be made public? Are they quite?

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Speaker 1: Are they quite? Big? Ones that will garner quite a

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Speaker 1: bit of public interest?

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Speaker 2: Five matters will be sorry, and then an additional three.

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Speaker 2: So yes, the five matters will garner a lot of

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Speaker 2: public interest.

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Speaker 1: Now, I know you won't tell me, but I always

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Speaker 1: ask is there anything you can tell us about those

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Speaker 1: at the moment? Not yet, Katie, you know I'll always

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Speaker 1: try so. And you're hoping to have all of those

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Speaker 1: complete by the time your retirement comes. Now that's in July,

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Speaker 1: is nation July? Yes, so you are hoping to have

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Speaker 1: those complete by then. What's going to be the process

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Speaker 1: in terms of who takes over as the IK commissioner.

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Speaker 2: That selection process is about to kick off, we're told,

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Speaker 2: I hope we're consulted about who should be there, because

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Speaker 2: it's a very unusual position to occupy because the person

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Speaker 2: has to have a good legal background, a good criminal

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Speaker 2: law background, and hopefully understand the processes of the courts

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Speaker 2: and of inquiries. But in addition into that, it's essentially

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Speaker 2: an investigative body. So the person who takes over should

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Speaker 2: be a person who understands at least the investigative process.

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Speaker 2: If they don't know every aspect of it, yep, they

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Speaker 2: have to be prepared to sit and listen and take

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Speaker 2: the advice of the investigators.

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Speaker 1: And I'm assuming it's probably best to get somebody from interstate,

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Speaker 1: as was the case when you were announced as the commissioner,

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Speaker 1: because we essentially need somebody who's a little bit removed

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Speaker 1: I suppose from some of the things that need to

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Speaker 1: be investigated. Is that sort of a correct assumption.

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Speaker 2: I agree with that, yes, yeah, is.

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Speaker 1: It going to be Actually, I suppose What I more

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Speaker 1: want to know, has there been anything that sort of

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Speaker 1: surprised you since coming in as the EKAC commissioner in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory? An anything that you maybe weren't expecting.

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Speaker 2: You can accept intellectually two things, and I was told

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Speaker 2: that there are two things about the terrory that I

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Speaker 2: had to understand. One was the remoteness of the territory,

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Speaker 2: and two was the one degree of separation. You can

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Speaker 2: accept that intellectually, but it's not until you're actually on

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Speaker 2: the ground that you can see the absolute remoteness and

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Speaker 2: the complexities that that creates in terms of conflict of interest.

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Speaker 2: I note that the most significant reports that we've had,

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Speaker 2: almost about one hundred and thirty eight reports that we've had,

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Speaker 2: are about conflict of interest. Now, that surprised me, and

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Speaker 2: it also surprised me of the quality of people that

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Speaker 2: there are here, and we've managed to put together quite

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Speaker 2: an extraordinary team of people. People have wanted to come

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Speaker 2: to us. They have almost unanimously said that they've been

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Speaker 2: waiting for an integrity agency. They want to work for us,

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Speaker 2: and they're very, very high quality people. So I was

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Speaker 2: surprised that I needed to go to the size of

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Speaker 2: the organization, and then I was surprised that the quality

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Speaker 2: of the people were here. Actually, and that's a bit

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Speaker 2: ignorant of me to say, because there are wonderful and

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Speaker 2: highly qualified people in the territory. Shouldn't have surprised me.

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Speaker 1: Now, has there been any sort of low lights for

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Speaker 1: you since being the IKA Commissioner.

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Speaker 2: Some of the battles that we've had to face, as

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Speaker 2: I've said already this morning somewhere else, some of them

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Speaker 2: are my doing. Because being a barrister and sole practice

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Speaker 2: doesn't equip you to become part of bureaucracy. So that

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Speaker 2: required a lot of understanding on my part, and I've

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Speaker 2: made mistakes in some of those areas. I didn't realize

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Speaker 2: how significant policy was. We've got fifty or sixty policies

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Speaker 2: in place that we had to write about different aspects

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Speaker 2: of a functioning agency, and I should have perhaps known

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Speaker 2: that there would be such things. But those things have

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Speaker 2: been a surprise. They've taken up much time and resources

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Speaker 2: to get those things going, which has interfered with the

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Speaker 2: day to day activities that we should be doing the investigations. However,

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Speaker 2: it's now at a point where those things are all

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Speaker 2: in place, a budget is in place, a highly efficient

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Speaker 2: and functioning offices in place, and a future budget is

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Speaker 2: in place as well.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that you did cop some criticism

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Speaker 1: about was speaking at a rally in Alice Springs. Regret

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Speaker 1: doing that, Katie.

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Speaker 2: Can I say this, that's still the subject of a

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Speaker 2: matter in court, and I won't say anything about that,

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Speaker 2: at least until after a court case has been heard.

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Speaker 2: A person is entitled to go to court unencumbered by

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Speaker 2: extraneous comments made. For example, now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, fair enough, well, Ken, we really appreciate the time

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Speaker 1: that you've given us as the KA Commissioner, but I

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Speaker 1: reckon we'll be seeing you again anyway over the next

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Speaker 1: six months.

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Speaker 2: You will again. As I have said somewhere else this morning,

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Speaker 2: the press, the media has been a very important part

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Speaker 2: of my function, because very early on in the act

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Speaker 2: it says part of my function is educational, and I

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Speaker 2: consider this no better educational process than coming and talking

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Speaker 2: with you and being quizzed. So thank you as well well.

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Speaker 1: We appreciate the time you've given us, and we will

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Speaker 1: talk to you again in the very near future. Ken Fleming,

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Speaker 1: the YKAT Commissioner here in the Northern Territory, thank you

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Speaker 1: for your time.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Gedding