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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just once answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, small things that wouldn't ordinarily disrupt you or knock

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Speaker 2: you off your feet are doing that right now. So

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Speaker 2: there's sort of the emotional component of COVID fatigue, but

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Speaker 2: then there's also the very physical component.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: Gooday.

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Speaker 4: This is doctor Justin Colson and the author of six

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Speaker 4: books about how to make your family HAPPI are here

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Speaker 4: with Kylie, my listaid, my mum, my wife and mum

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Speaker 4: to our six kids. If I said that wrong, it

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Speaker 4: sounds like you're my wife and mum. That sounds really bad,

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Speaker 4: really bad. I need to make sure I slow that

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Speaker 4: down when we do this in future, just in case

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Speaker 4: any gets confused. Today we're joined by somebody. I'm very

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Speaker 4: very excited to have a guest as we work through

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Speaker 4: a week all about COVID and how we can help

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Speaker 4: our family to navigate the highs and well, particularly the

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Speaker 4: lows of lockdowns we've got. We're almost half the country

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Speaker 4: in lockdown. It's been ongoing, it's only getting worse. And

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Speaker 4: we're talking with Professor Lee Waters Professor Waters. Lee is

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Speaker 4: at the Center for Well Being at the Graduate School

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Speaker 4: of Education in the University of Melbourne. I'm an honorary

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Speaker 4: fellow there and I'm just delighted to talk to it. Oh,

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Speaker 4: by the way, twenty seven years as a psychologists written

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Speaker 4: a book for parents called The Strength Switch, which we

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Speaker 4: will talk about in just a minute as well. Great

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Speaker 4: book to help parents to use positive psychology to help

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Speaker 4: their kids to flourish. And Lee joins us right now,

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Speaker 4: it's so nice to have you with us.

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Speaker 5: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 6: Guys, Justin keeps telling me the data is suggesting that

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Speaker 6: lockdowns are having a huge impact on mental health everywhere.

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Speaker 6: What are you seeing in the data?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, the data is not telling us a pretty

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Speaker 2: story at the moment. And no one will be surprised

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Speaker 2: who's listening to this to hear that living in a

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Speaker 2: global pandemic COVID nineteen crisis has really had a very

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Speaker 2: dramatic impact on the mental health of our.

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Speaker 5: Kids, the people who we love the most.

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Speaker 2: And national research coming out to show that levels of depression,

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Speaker 2: anxiety and stress are elevated by up to sixty percent

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Speaker 2: in young Australians in well that's particularly kind of in

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Speaker 2: teenagers and early adult Australians. Research also showing that at

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Speaker 2: the start of the global pandemic. So think back to

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Speaker 2: kind of like rewind to March last year national research

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Speaker 2: with teens asking you know about their confidence to cope,

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Speaker 2: and at that point in time, eighty percent of Australian

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Speaker 2: teenagers said I'm confident that.

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Speaker 5: I can cope with this.

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Speaker 2: Now we've got thirty percent of teenagers saying I'm confident

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Speaker 2: I can cope with this. So that you know that

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Speaker 2: sort of dealing with that extended adversity and ongoing uncertainty

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Speaker 2: is really taking its toll on the mental health of

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Speaker 2: our teenagers drops in hope by thirty percent. And I've

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Speaker 2: mentioned some stats around teenagers.

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Speaker 1: We go to.

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Speaker 2: The early years of thinking of parents at home with

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Speaker 2: kids below five and large national research study done last

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Speaker 2: year with a couple of universities. My own university, the

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Speaker 2: University of Melbourne, was included in that, and what that

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Speaker 2: research found was that the elevated levels of things like

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Speaker 2: issues with sleeping, anger, anxiety, behavioral and emotional problems and

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Speaker 2: again it's getting worse.

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Speaker 5: So the first round of that survey.

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Speaker 2: In early March early what kind of mid I suppose

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Speaker 2: last year May last year, about twenty two percent of

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Speaker 2: parents were saying my young child is struggling, And when

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Speaker 2: that data was completed again towards the end of that

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Speaker 2: last year, that went up to about forty two percent.

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Speaker 5: What's really telling actually.

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Speaker 2: About that data for the younger kids, and I think

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Speaker 2: it would be very similar if you're a parent listening

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Speaker 2: with primary school age child or teen, is that at

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Speaker 2: that particular point in time when the second Wave was,

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Speaker 2: that was when Melbourne was in its very elongated lockdown.

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Speaker 2: I'm from Melbourne myself, so I'm getting used to living

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Speaker 2: at home in lockdown, with working at home with my hubby,

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Speaker 2: working at home with my two teenage kids. But what

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Speaker 2: that research found in the younger kids is that for

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Speaker 2: the Victorian segment of the sample, depression went up by

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Speaker 2: twenty one percent compared to the other children in the

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Speaker 2: national study who hadn't had that elongated lockdown, and behavioral

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Speaker 2: and emotional issues were five times more prevalent in the

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Speaker 2: young Victorian kids who were dealing with this long extended lockdown,

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Speaker 2: second round of lockdown, compared to children across the other

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Speaker 2: states and territories in the National survey, so that was

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Speaker 2: research from last year. Most of the research research always

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Speaker 2: has a time lag, right, So what will be really

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Speaker 2: kind of interesting to see is what's going to happen

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Speaker 2: at the end of twenty twenty one when so many

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Speaker 2: families across Australia, as you just said, justin you know,

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Speaker 2: half approximately half the families in Australia are really dealing

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Speaker 2: with that multiple rounds of lockdown, ongoing adversity, extended uncertainty.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and the severity. And that's just the kids. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I'm looking at research on parents and also getting the front,

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Speaker 4: the full frontal assault via our social media and our

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Speaker 4: email and working with our members via Happy Families and

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Speaker 4: the parents there's this low grade, this low level agitation, frustration.

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Speaker 4: I mean, this is hard for parents as well, so.

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Speaker 2: Hard, and I think that's so important to raise is

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Speaker 2: that you know, as parents, our roles have multiplied and

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Speaker 2: amplified and extended, particularly parents who are listening to this,

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Speaker 2: who are in lockdown right now, where we're being both

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Speaker 2: parents and teachers and if we're working trying to be

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Speaker 2: a good employee at the same time, and what I've

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Speaker 2: seen in my work with parents. Is I like the

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Speaker 2: term you said that's kind of low level agitation. What

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Speaker 2: I'm seeing is a lot of what I'm calling COVID fatigue.

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Speaker 2: And COVID fatigue can come about in different ways for

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Speaker 2: different people, So there can be those kind of emotional

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Speaker 2: symptoms of being agitated, having that kind of mood swing,

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Speaker 2: so waking up in the morning and thinking, yeah, it's okay,

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Speaker 2: it's going to be a good day, and sort of

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Speaker 2: by lunchtime feeling very very differently. So those mood swings,

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Speaker 2: that emotional fragility, where small things that wouldn't ordinarily disrupt

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Speaker 2: you or knock you off your feet are doing that

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Speaker 2: right now. So there's sort of the emotional component of

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Speaker 2: COVID fatigue. But then there's also the very physical component

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Speaker 2: of COVID fatigue, and that is just genuinely that you know,

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Speaker 2: we're tired, we're fatigued, we're not sleeping well. The stress

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Speaker 2: is playing out in our bodies, so you know, lots

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Speaker 2: of joint aches, lower back problems, shoulder problems, neck problems, headaches.

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Speaker 2: So that COVID fatigue is what I'm really seeing in

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Speaker 2: a lot of parents.

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Speaker 4: Lee, you and I share a background in positive psychology.

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Speaker 4: My PhD was in posit psych You've been working this

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Speaker 4: area and a global leader in the field. You and

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Speaker 4: I both know that it can be helpful, as does

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Speaker 4: Kylie because she's watched us implement it in our home.

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Speaker 4: As you've mentioned you've done it with your two daughters.

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Speaker 4: But I know that as we steer the conversation out

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Speaker 4: towards your research and what positive psychology can do to

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Speaker 4: help boost well being in families, we're going to talk

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Speaker 4: about some ideas like gratitude or using strengths or whatever

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Speaker 4: it might be. And I just know that there's going

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Speaker 4: to be some cynics, so we are going to roll it,

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Speaker 4: Oyse and say, really, you're going to tell me to

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Speaker 4: talk about grateful things around the dining table tonight with

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Speaker 4: my kids, and that's going to make a difference when

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Speaker 4: we are feeling the way we're feeling. How do you

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Speaker 4: respond to the skeptics on an issue that is so

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Speaker 4: tricky like this.

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Speaker 2: Firstly, I completely understand where they're coming from, but what

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Speaker 2: I will say is that you know, and this isn't

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Speaker 2: this is certainly we can talk about the science of

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Speaker 2: positive psychology, but it's also kind what our grandparents told

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Speaker 2: us it's like common sense, which is control the controllables.

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Speaker 2: And so we can't control a global pandemic. We can't

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Speaker 2: control decisions made around lockdown. We can't control many of

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Speaker 2: the things. But as parents, there are some things that

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Speaker 2: we can and I'm calling it control with a little

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Speaker 2: seed instead of control with a capital. See, there are

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Speaker 2: some things that we can control to help change the

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Speaker 2: brain chemistry of our children. And so they and they

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Speaker 2: can only be those small things. Never underestimate the power

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Speaker 2: of something small. And so, you know, like you said,

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Speaker 2: focusing acknowledging the distress that your kids are going through,

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Speaker 2: being their emotional companion, being there in that moment for

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Speaker 2: them first. And you know you just mentioned I have

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Speaker 2: two teenagers, one boy, one girl at home and then

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Speaker 2: you know we're in meltmourn, multiple lockdowns. They're stress, they're frustrated,

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Speaker 2: they're tired, they miss their friends. So always start with

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Speaker 2: that emotional acknowledgment. Always start with where your kids are at.

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Speaker 2: But then use some of these positive psychology techniques to

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Speaker 2: get us to focus on the cuddle with the dog,

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Speaker 2: or the sunshine or a nice meal for that night,

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Speaker 2: or a Netflix series that we're all watching together because

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Speaker 2: those small little things change our brain chemistry, and when

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Speaker 2: our brain chemistry has changed, we view the world differently.

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Speaker 4: After the break, We're going to find out exactly what

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Speaker 4: some of those things are so that we can help

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Speaker 4: your family to feel happier even in the midst of

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Speaker 4: this stress. It's the Happy Families Podcast.

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Speaker 3: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having

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Speaker 3: to feel bad or in trouble. The dos and don'ts

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Speaker 3: of discipline as a webinar to help parents set limits

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Speaker 3: with love, compassion and humanity. Find it now at happyfamilies

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Speaker 3: dot com, dot au slash shop.

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Speaker 6: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 6: poor parent who just wants answers now. And today we're

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Speaker 6: speaking with Professor Lee Waters. She's from the University of

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Speaker 6: Melbourne and we're talking about the challenges that people are

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Speaker 6: experiencing through the lockdown and what we can do to help.

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Speaker 4: Lee. You published a very very popular research paper just

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Speaker 4: in the last few months about what positive psychology can

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Speaker 4: teach us, help us with get us through in terms

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Speaker 4: of the pandemic. Can you summarize some of those main

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Speaker 4: themes and let's make it really practical what a parent's

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Speaker 4: supposed to do based on the cutting edge science of

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Speaker 4: well being.

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Speaker 5: Okay, I love that question.

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Speaker 2: Now you've asked the scientist to talk briefly, all right,

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Speaker 2: let me accept that challenge. Look, there are a couple

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Speaker 2: of really key things that came out of that paper,

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Speaker 2: three key things that I think are very relevant for

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Speaker 2: us as parents, and they were eco connection, self, compassion,

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Speaker 2: and meaning. So what the science shows us is that

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Speaker 2: if we're able to get out into green, into green, right,

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Speaker 2: just green, full stop.

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Speaker 5: All right.

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Speaker 2: So some people are lucky they live near sort of wildlife,

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Speaker 2: nature reserves, bushy areas, or just to walk around your neighborhood,

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Speaker 2: or get out into your back garden if you are

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Speaker 2: enough to have a backgarden, or plants, bring some plants indoors.

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Speaker 2: So eco connection, the science of eco connection shows that

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Speaker 2: the minute we're in a in touch with nature, it

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Speaker 2: changes our physiology. So it calms our nervous system down,

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Speaker 2: it oxygenates our blood, and it's also a little bit

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Speaker 2: of a mental vacation if you like a bit of

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Speaker 2: an emotional holiday.

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Speaker 5: All right, let's just go for a walk.

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Speaker 2: That's a little bit tricky when you're in the midst

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Speaker 2: of lockdown in Melbourne and in Sydney, where we have

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Speaker 2: one hour that we're allowed out of our house, So

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Speaker 2: utilize that hour. Get your kids to have eco connection,

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Speaker 2: Get them out into the environment. Listen to the sounds

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Speaker 2: of birds. When we hear birds, our auditory cortex triggers again.

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Speaker 2: It talks to our nervous system and says everything's going

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Speaker 2: to be okay. So that's the first thing that I

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Speaker 2: would say, get your kids out into get them outside

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Speaker 2: eco connection. Second thing was self compassion. And so compassion

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Speaker 2: is the ability to work someone suffer and the wish

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Speaker 2: to want to alleviate that suffering. And so self compassion

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Speaker 2: is the same thing. It's actually acknowledging you're suffering in

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Speaker 2: the first place. Like I'm struggling today. You know, I'm tired.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why I'm tired. I had a pretty

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Speaker 2: good sleep, but I've woken up fatigued. I'm short tempered,

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Speaker 2: I'm putting on weight, I snapped at my kids. So yes,

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Speaker 2: I'm struggling. So witness the struggling. And then compassion is

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Speaker 2: the ability to witness struggling and seek to alleviate it.

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Speaker 2: So seek to alleviate it. Talk kindly to yourself, Explain

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Speaker 2: to yourself that we're in the middle of a global pandemic.

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Speaker 2: Something like this hasn't happened for one hundred years. It's

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Speaker 2: hard to parent during this time. Have a hot bath,

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Speaker 2: take yourself out into nature, forgive yourself for not being

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Speaker 2: the perfect parent right now. And what the research also

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Speaker 2: shows is the more that we model self compassion, that is,

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Speaker 2: being kind to ourselves when we're struggling instead of being

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Speaker 2: harsh and impatient with ourselves. The more that we do that,

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Speaker 2: we're modeling that to our kids. They all need to

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Speaker 2: learn that right now too, that they need to that

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Speaker 2: they need to learn to witness. I'm struggling, I'm suffering

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Speaker 2: right now, I'm tired, I miss my friends. And you know,

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Speaker 2: self compassion is kind of like the reverse of the

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Speaker 2: Golden rule or the extension of the golden rule. You know,

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Speaker 2: the golden rule is do unto others what you would

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Speaker 2: do to yourself. And self compassion we're always kind to

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Speaker 2: other people. Self compassion is do to yourself what you

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Speaker 2: would do to others. Be kind to ourselves right now.

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Speaker 2: So that's the second thing. The third thing is meaning,

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Speaker 2: And so you know, you would know this justin there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of work on if we can understand sort

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Speaker 2: of the bigger picture and have a sense of meaning

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Speaker 2: and purpose in our life, that's like a key formula

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Speaker 2: for good mental health. And so right now, in the

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Speaker 2: midst of a global pandemic, with all this uncertainty, how

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Speaker 2: can you help your kids find that sense of meaning

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Speaker 2: and find that sense of purpose. And it may be

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Speaker 2: that it's through particular functions they're playing in the family role.

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Speaker 2: You know, maybe you've got a child at their job

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Speaker 2: to like set up all the technology for you, so

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Speaker 2: they've got that sense of purpose.

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Speaker 5: They've got a role.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you've got a child who's very kind hearted, and

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Speaker 2: so their meaning and their purpose is to check out

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Speaker 2: and reach out to their friends and check on family

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Speaker 2: members and have a zoom session with their grandparents. And

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Speaker 2: maybe you've got other friends or kids who you know

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Speaker 2: just doing research, and so their kind of sense of

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Speaker 2: meaning and purpose is to say, well, I'll go on

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Speaker 2: research where we can do our online shopping, or I'll

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Speaker 2: research how other countries have gotten through this global pandemic.

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Speaker 2: And so really like tuning into the strengths of your

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Speaker 2: kids and giving them a sense of meaning and purpose,

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Speaker 2: giving them a role that they play in the midst

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Speaker 2: of a global pandemic. I'm not sure if that was

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Speaker 2: a short end of it. They're the three key things

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Speaker 2: that i'd say.

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Speaker 6: So, Lee, you wrote a book a few years ago

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Speaker 6: now called The Strength Switch. It's about how when kids

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Speaker 6: tap into their strengths it elevates well being. Can you

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Speaker 6: talk about strengths in the current context and how families

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Speaker 6: can build on their strengths right now?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, every child has their own strengths, and now

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Speaker 2: is an opportunity for us to tune into those. So

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Speaker 2: a strengths of things that energize your child that your

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Speaker 2: child kind of performs naturally without having to think about

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Speaker 2: or learn quickly. And so if you think about things

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Speaker 2: strengths like kindness, that's really a good strength to have

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Speaker 2: in the middle of a global pandemic.

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Speaker 5: Maybe you've got a child's who.

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Speaker 2: Has the strength of humor and they just have that

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Speaker 2: capacity to make us kind of laugh at the absurdity

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Speaker 2: of what we're going through.

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Speaker 5: Maybe you have a child who has creativity.

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Speaker 2: And so they're able to like reorganize your house in

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Speaker 2: a way that suits lockdown. So it's really about tuning

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Speaker 2: into what works well for your child, What are their

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Speaker 2: unique assets, where do they get energy from, and capitalizing

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Speaker 2: on those right now.

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Speaker 4: I love the idea of the creative child reorganizing the house.

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Speaker 4: You said that like it was a good thing.

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Speaker 5: Lee.

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Speaker 4: I'm thinking that if my creative child was given free

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Speaker 4: reindeer to that, I don't think we'd feel so good

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Speaker 4: about life. Lee. There is so much more that we

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Speaker 4: could talk about. I could listen to you talk for hours.

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Speaker 4: This has been a delightful conversation. If people want more information,

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Speaker 4: where can they find you and your book The Strength Switch.

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Speaker 2: Well, thanks Justsin, It's been great to talk to you

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Speaker 2: and Kylie. And yeah, look check me out on my website.

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Speaker 2: So that's Lee and my name is actually spelled l Ea,

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Speaker 2: So think of p or meadow Lee Lee Waters dot

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Speaker 2: com on all the socials. It's at proff professor at

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Speaker 2: prof Leewaters.

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Speaker 4: Thanks Lee, Well, what a great conversation. The Happy Family's

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Speaker 4: podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. Craig

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Speaker 4: Bruce is our executive producer. And if you'd like more

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Speaker 4: information about making your family happier, obviously check out Lee's book,

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Speaker 4: The Strength Switch, or you can visit Happyfamilies dot com

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Speaker 4: dot au