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Speaker 1: Black cast Unite our voices.

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Speaker 2: Black Magic Women Podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the

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Speaker 2: land we have recorded this episode on. We also acknowledge

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Speaker 2: traditional owners of the land where you, the listener of

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Speaker 2: youer are tuning in from. We would like to pay

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Speaker 2: our respects to our elders past and present and acknowledged

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Speaker 2: that this always was Aboriginal land and always will be

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Speaker 2: Aboriginal land. Welcome to the Black Magic Woman Podcast with

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Speaker 2: Mondanara Bail. Welcome to another deadly episode of the one

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Speaker 2: and only Black Magic Woman Podcast. Hopefully you've been enjoying

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Speaker 2: the journey so far, either viewing it on the YouTube

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Speaker 2: channel and if you haven't yet subscribed to the black

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Speaker 2: Magic Walman YouTube, please go and do so, and share

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Speaker 2: with your family and friends and even in your organizations,

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Speaker 2: in the networks, the boards that you sit on, the

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Speaker 2: jobs that you do. If you really enjoy hearing from

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Speaker 2: some of the guests and I have on the couch

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Speaker 2: or virtually, then share it with other people, because that's

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Speaker 2: what it's all about. How do we get our stories

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Speaker 2: out there to the rest of the world and talking

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Speaker 2: about being on the other side of the country.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm in another world.

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Speaker 2: I traveled nearly six hours to be here on beautiful

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Speaker 2: wardjaq Nunga Budja, which is Western Australia, but in particular Perth.

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Speaker 1: So I'm joined by or I.

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Speaker 2: Would say, I have the absolute privilege to be in

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Speaker 2: the amazing presence of Anipat Dudgeon. And I had to

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Speaker 2: say straight away when I met you downstairs in the

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Speaker 2: foyer that Aunt Lilla, as soon as I mentioned that

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Speaker 2: I was coming to Yana with you, she said, you

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Speaker 2: must send her my love and regards. And she's got

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Speaker 2: some very fond memories, you know, the early days, the

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Speaker 2: old days.

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Speaker 3: And absolutely sending it back to Lula. I mean, she's

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Speaker 3: one of the she's actually a trail By blazer. But

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Speaker 3: I don't know if many people know that. But in

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Speaker 3: our programs that we were doing at Curtain University at

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Speaker 3: the time, and we were doing some really different things

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Speaker 3: and trying to change higher education so it would suit

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Speaker 3: our communities, and she coined she was the first one

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Speaker 3: who came up with the term Aboriginal terms of reference.

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Speaker 3: And that's before we had all that language, you know,

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Speaker 3: decolonizing the paradigms in Western had Jemoni blah blah blah,

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Speaker 3: but she was actually doing that year.

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Speaker 1: How far are we going back?

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Speaker 4: This is going back a long way.

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Speaker 3: In nineteen seventies, yeah, nineteen nineties, we stayed nineteen ninety.

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Speaker 2: In the nineteen eighties is when she got the job

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Speaker 2: as an academic at UQ. So that's where the university,

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Speaker 2: your friendship goes back.

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Speaker 4: Back to that.

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Speaker 3: And actually that became a big stream in our community

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Speaker 3: management program, which as far as I know, is still operating.

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Speaker 3: So Aboriginal terms of reference was actually a big stream.

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Speaker 3: But she broke that ground. She was a pioneer way

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Speaker 3: before we had the language that we have. Now, the landscape,

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Speaker 3: particularly in high education is very different and better for us.

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Speaker 3: But before we were always on the outside, you know,

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Speaker 3: being blocked out, being capped out, so.

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Speaker 2: And having to participate in these institutions on white.

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Speaker 3: Terms of reasons and Western knowledges. Western one spoke up

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Speaker 3: Indigenous knowledges or the respect and inclusion of that, and

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Speaker 3: that's a discussion that's taking place nationally amongst our indigenous

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Speaker 3: scholars and community people, and it's a good change that's happening,

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Speaker 3: and it's global too. So I must credit Lilla as

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Speaker 3: being one of the pioneers of the pioneers in the

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Speaker 3: academy to start challenging the Western ways and say no,

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Speaker 3: there's got to be an Aboriginal way. What's important, what's

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Speaker 3: our aspirations and values and what's important for us as

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Speaker 3: an indigenous group.

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Speaker 2: And to hold it, to see it as equal the

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Speaker 2: higher Yeah. Yeah, to place the value of our knowledge,

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Speaker 2: our cultural knowledge that comes from this land and either

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Speaker 2: equal to white man's knowledge of Western qualification.

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Speaker 3: Better in you know, even do do a mainstream business

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Speaker 3: degree and then go and work out in the community,

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Speaker 3: it's like irrelevant. So but if you learned about what

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Speaker 3: was important for Aboriginal people, you know, all the different protocols,

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Speaker 3: different ways of working, values, aspirations, relationship building, that that

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Speaker 3: was more relevant and that that was a big change.

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, we had been working in mainstream

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Speaker 3: in the academy, but and trying to modify Western knowledges.

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Speaker 3: But you know, you almost have to start brand new

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Speaker 3: and develop your own knowledges.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're speaking a different language. That language is not

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Speaker 2: even it's understood. Yeah, And those academy is and institutions

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Speaker 2: that are very.

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Speaker 3: White, yes, and now it's like you know, some universities

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Speaker 3: actually have professors of indigenous.

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Speaker 4: Knowledges and they do that they have quantumly.

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Speaker 1: Even pro Vice Chancellor.

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Speaker 3: I know, I'm a stepping up more. I mean, you

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Speaker 3: have to keep the what is it, the pedal to

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Speaker 3: the floor because there's still you know, entrenched systemic racism

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Speaker 3: and cultural racism. But now there's a path forward or

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Speaker 3: many parts forward, and we're all together on it.

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Speaker 4: So I'm feeling optimistic, too deadly.

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Speaker 2: We look, look how exciting it is to be sitting

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Speaker 2: here and yarning with you, and I've been reading your work.

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Speaker 2: I've been following you on LinkedIn. You know, I'm a

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Speaker 2: big fan of yours.

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Speaker 4: Okay, okay, I'm always on.

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Speaker 2: There, absolutely love everything you do, and I share every

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Speaker 2: single post of yours. And I feel, I feel a

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Speaker 2: sense of obligation that if I've got a network, and

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Speaker 2: I've got a profile or platform of following, then we

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Speaker 2: need to make sure that you know that we're using it.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that everyone.

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Speaker 2: With a high profile or public profile needs to go

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Speaker 2: and fly the flag. You should be doing it anyways,

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Speaker 2: but we're not here to judge anyone. But coming back

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Speaker 2: to your beautiful people and country and family, which is

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Speaker 2: a big part of who we are as blackfellows. Do

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Speaker 2: you want to share with our listeners and also our

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Speaker 2: viewers on YouTube a little bit about your country, your people?

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Speaker 3: Okay, well a little bit about me. I was actually

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Speaker 3: born and grew up in Darwin, and I say, and

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Speaker 3: I feel that that a part of my heart belongs

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Speaker 3: to Larakia Nation, So that's where I was born and

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Speaker 3: grew up. My people actually are from the Kimberly so

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Speaker 3: I'm from the Badi Gidja people. However, growing up in Darwen,

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Speaker 3: there was a bit of a beat that happened. There

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Speaker 3: was a lot of travel between Darwin and Broom, so

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Speaker 3: that's how I think my mother and my grandmother ended

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Speaker 3: up in Darwin and was definitely a part of the

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Speaker 3: Aboriginal community in Darwin. But when I wanted to study,

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Speaker 3: I wanted to study psychology because I wanted to help people.

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Speaker 4: And at that.

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Speaker 3: Time, which is telling, there were no universities in Darwen,

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Speaker 3: so I had to go down south and so I

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Speaker 3: thought Brisbane Perth, Brisbane Perth and chose Perth and I

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Speaker 3: came here to study psychology. So that's back some time,

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Speaker 3: and I just love Nunga Bujah. I love Perth and

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Speaker 3: Yung country, and I do the odd trip back to Darwin,

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Speaker 3: but I mainly go back to Broom to reconnect there

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Speaker 3: where my mom was from.

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Speaker 4: But i'd call her my home.

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Speaker 2: I love that and it's, you know, one of the

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Speaker 2: most beautifulest things. There's a lot of beautiful things about

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Speaker 2: our culture, but we can actually be welcomed.

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Speaker 1: And accepted on other people's country.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, like we're being taken in by the local mob. Yes,

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Speaker 2: but you know what, white fellows can feel that too, Yes,

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Speaker 2: if they really wanted to make a difference, if they

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Speaker 2: wanted to better themselves and their own spirit, right, how

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Speaker 2: amazing would it be, especially for non Abisonal people to

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Speaker 2: connect with the local mob, and then they will also

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Speaker 2: feel the same feelings that we start to feel on

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Speaker 2: other mob's country.

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Speaker 4: A much richer experience.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's about having some protocols in respect.

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Speaker 4: So you've got to learn that knowing your place a little.

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Speaker 3: Bit, Like, you know, there's while I live and I

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Speaker 3: see myself as a part of the community here, I

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Speaker 3: know that there's things and places I can't be in,

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Speaker 3: and I you know, I think that's good I'm not

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Speaker 3: a younger. I'm a bardy person. So it's knowing your

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Speaker 3: boundaries and not to all of us. Wherever we go

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Speaker 3: and we go into other people's countries, whether you know,

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Speaker 3: obviously mainly indigenous, but also non indigenous, I think it's

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Speaker 3: important that we do learn the culture of the place

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Speaker 3: and the people, and we respect those people and their

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Speaker 3: culture and history.

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Speaker 4: So it's a.

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Speaker 3: Basic protocol that we all should observe. You know, the

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Speaker 3: spaces we go into aren't disposable, they're not superficial or

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Speaker 3: they you know, they don't have to be. They could

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Speaker 3: be deep, rich stories that we can hear, be a

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Speaker 3: part of and respect. So I think that that if

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Speaker 3: you if you go to a place, you know, when

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Speaker 3: I go overseas, I try and find out about wherever

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Speaker 3: I'm going, whether I've been to South Africa, for instance,

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Speaker 3: and I did a lot of reading on the history

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Speaker 3: and you know, the cultural groups that make up that country,

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Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. So it's a much more deeper

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Speaker 3: experience and hopefully I'm not as culturally ignorant when I

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Speaker 3: go in there, and I don't offend anyone too.

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Speaker 4: So I was very conscious about.

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Speaker 2: That and as a cultured person, yes, you kin'd have

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Speaker 2: already got a foot in the door, so to speak,

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Speaker 2: being a cultured person, because some of those principles of

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Speaker 2: protocols they're universal.

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Speaker 3: Yes, And it's about you know, being respectful, knowing, knowing

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Speaker 3: what the values are or the ways of operating are,

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Speaker 3: and ensuring that you observe them.

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Speaker 2: There could be women with women like our culture, women's business,

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Speaker 2: men's business. It could be the fact that you dress

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Speaker 2: modest and don't.

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Speaker 1: Show you know.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and in some of our in some of our

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Speaker 2: Aboriginal communities, and people don't know this. But when I

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Speaker 2: went to the Gama festival in arnham Land and Yitakana,

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Speaker 2: the people that I went with did not know that

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Speaker 2: it was actually inappropriate to wear skirts and shorts as females,

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Speaker 2: that they should have pants or baggy pants or long

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Speaker 2: skirts or even put us the wrong on right. So

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Speaker 2: when I was going, oh, my family's here, I'd better

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Speaker 2: put long skirt on. The other women that were Miglu women,

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Speaker 2: wadular women, white fellows, you know, non Aboriginal women, were like,

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Speaker 2: should we be having a long skirt? And I said,

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Speaker 2: well yeah, They said, why weren't we told same time,

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Speaker 2: why didn't you do some research?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and also look around, read the room.

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Speaker 1: Before you get to the room, before you get to.

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Speaker 2: South Africa, before you get to another country, and it

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Speaker 2: might be within Australia. There's all these different countries that

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Speaker 2: make up great Island continent of ours.

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Speaker 1: Yea.

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Speaker 3: And I think communities are pretty forgiving, So they're generous.

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Speaker 3: But if you flaunt things, or if you are flaunting

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Speaker 3: the protocols and you don't want to see or hear them,

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Speaker 3: then it's an issue. But if you make a mistake,

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Speaker 3: I think that that's accepted and you won't be penalized.

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Speaker 3: But if you can, if you're disrespectful, that's a different story,

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Speaker 3: isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll be asked to leave, yes, and you won't

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Speaker 2: be invited to come back. In terms of working with communities,

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Speaker 2: you've been doing a lot a lot of work art, yes,

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Speaker 2: in this country. And like psychology is your forte yes,

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Speaker 2: that's that's right.

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Speaker 3: So, and we've been trying to I think mental health.

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Speaker 3: I know when I was studying and when I graduated,

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Speaker 3: I think the way forward for us as indigenous people

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Speaker 3: were seen as achieving economic independence, and then health was

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Speaker 3: a big issue. There was a lot of attention and

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Speaker 3: and you know, some funding put into that. It was

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Speaker 3: I couldn't see where psychology fit at the time, and

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Speaker 3: I know that you know the psychology. I was trying

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Speaker 3: to work within the paradigm, but you had to step

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Speaker 3: out of it. And it was actually African American psychology,

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Speaker 3: Black psychology that showed me that that you know that

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Speaker 3: you know, okay, these are the models and theories of

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Speaker 3: a white Western psychology.

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Speaker 4: We have to step out and develop our own.

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Speaker 3: So that was a bit of an epiphany for me

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Speaker 3: that made you know, it took me. That was quite

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Speaker 3: a change and rather than being for me, and different

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Speaker 3: people will have different experiences. Some Aboriginal sites might be

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Speaker 3: quite happy working in mainstream and just adapting mainstream approaches,

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Speaker 3: and that's good for them, and if it's useful to

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Speaker 3: our people, good, But what suited me as a person

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Speaker 3: is that to step outside and challenge.

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Speaker 4: Those that are those paradigms.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So, and then at that time, we're not the ways

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Speaker 3: forward report came out and that was fantastic. So that

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Speaker 3: was led by Pat swan Or Delainey and Beverly Raphael

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Speaker 3: and that was the first time we really looked at

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Speaker 3: mental health of Aboriginal Torres straight Onto people and then

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Speaker 3: the first SUE framework, the Social Emotional well Being Framework,

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Speaker 3: came out and that shone a light on how we

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Speaker 3: could go. So with the Indigenous psychologists, we've worked to

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Speaker 3: develop a diagram from that history, and that's promoting a

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Speaker 3: social emotional well being approached, which is it's still about you.

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Speaker 3: It's still about a self, but a relational self, not

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Speaker 3: self you know, contained but with terms of self.

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Speaker 2: Like yeah, individual individuality or individualism.

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Speaker 1: Not that self.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a it's a collective self. And it's holistic, yeah, holistic,

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Speaker 3: and SEWB is about you and your connection to your family,

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Speaker 3: to your community. You know, it's about your mind and

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Speaker 3: body as well that you know, our well being. You know,

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Speaker 3: you should have a good physical environment. You should be

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Speaker 3: having a good diet, not drinking or smoking too much,

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Speaker 3: doing exercising, blah blah blah. So it's your physical self,

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Speaker 3: your mental self, where your emotional self where you can

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Speaker 3: regulate your emotions and navigate out of issues and feel

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Speaker 3: like you've got some mastery over control. Yeah yeah, self

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Speaker 3: control and wisdom. But then there's also connection to your family, community,

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Speaker 3: and your your country. So those are important elements of

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Speaker 3: sew B or well being for Indigenous people and the

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Speaker 3: other connections that are important and these all overlap. Incidentally,

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Speaker 3: they're not they all connected. You know, the diagram is

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Speaker 3: like a Piet pizza with different slizes.

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Speaker 4: The reality is that it's all sort of mixed up.

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Speaker 4: But it's our connection. Country is very important.

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Speaker 3: Earlier we spoke about, you know, where we come from

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Speaker 3: in terms of country and where where we feel connected to.

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Speaker 3: So that's very important for Aboriginal people. And connection to

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Speaker 3: our ancestors and our spirituality. So those are important elements

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Speaker 3: that need to be addressed if you take a social

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Speaker 3: emotional wellbeing approached. But the community loves it because we

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Speaker 3: I think the good the good thing about the diagram

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Speaker 3: And again it wasn't us that we put. That comes

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Speaker 3: from a big history, so and we stand on the

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Speaker 3: shoulders of that. But we did the diagram and that

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Speaker 3: made it simple for our mob to grab hold of.

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Speaker 1: And do to start to understand.

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Speaker 3: Yeah that you know, your well being isn't just mental health.

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Speaker 3: It's all those things, those all those those parts, they

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Speaker 3: are all important.

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Speaker 1: Let's say, all.

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Speaker 2: Intrinsic. I'm trying to think of these English words to.

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Speaker 3: Interconnected, interconnected, and they all overlap, and different people will

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Speaker 3: have different priorities during their life course and depending on

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Speaker 3: what's happening in their life. But and we've been working

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Speaker 3: with some of the Aboriginal Medical Service or the arch

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Speaker 3: to look at, well, what is the good social emotional

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Speaker 3: wellbeing service and and you know, if you go and

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Speaker 3: see a doctor, what other things do they need to consider?

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Speaker 3: And do we have services that you know, help people

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Speaker 3: connect back to family, community, country and so on. And

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Speaker 3: you know, what are cultural activities that connect people back

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Speaker 3: to their culture as well. So these this movement that

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Speaker 3: and maybe I'm getting all excited and seeing it it's

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Speaker 3: bigger than it is, but I think it's fabulous.

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Speaker 4: And there's other models. This is just one of them.

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Speaker 3: You know, Professor Helen Milroy who's an Aboriginal psychiatrist, she's

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Speaker 3: got a model called the Dance of Life and that

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Speaker 3: talks about what elements are important to well being as

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Speaker 3: well and and all the little all the therapies that

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Speaker 3: are happening as well. So we're seeing that emerge, you know,

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Speaker 3: that indigenous knowledge and people reclaiming that indigenous knowledge. So healing,

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Speaker 3: for instance, isn't just talk talk. It's just not It

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Speaker 3: should include and be a part of talking therapy. But

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Speaker 3: it might be going back to country and reconnecting, like

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Speaker 3: to back to country and being in the country and

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Speaker 3: you know the heals.

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Speaker 1: They say, you know, country will heal us.

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Speaker 2: Country knows our spirit, especially if that's your country.

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Speaker 4: Yes, there's magic in that, Yes indeed. And I'm seeing.

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Speaker 3: What I'm seeing too is the ceremonies and starting to

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Speaker 3: happen again.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: I just noticed this morning on Facebook that there's a

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Speaker 3: big men's gathering happening here in Perth, and that's fabulous

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Speaker 3: to see those things being advertised, you know, and they're

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Speaker 3: doing a call out saying, heymen, local men, are you

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Speaker 3: interested coming during this men's group. We're going out to

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Speaker 3: country and it's getting people on country and talking about

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Speaker 3: what's important to us as Aboriginal torres straight on the people.

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Speaker 3: That makes us stronger. We connect with our own mob

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Speaker 3: even stronger. But then we can have those serious conversations too,

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Speaker 3: and I think we're just.

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Speaker 4: Much better off.

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Speaker 3: We're much healthier, we're more centered and happier because of it.

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Speaker 1: Of course, that's what's so important.

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Speaker 2: About Black Fellows being able to guide, enforce, develop policies,

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Speaker 2: give feedback where on the ground, especially if you've grown

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Speaker 2: up in your Aboriginal family and community. It's our lived

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Speaker 2: experience that helps us, you know, guide or develop these

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Speaker 2: frameworks so we know what we need to do. We're

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Speaker 2: the best people to solve some of the challenges in

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Speaker 2: our community. And art Lila talks about this all the time,

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Speaker 2: about how Black Fellows have got this great understanding.

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Speaker 1: Yes, of what it means to be human.

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Speaker 2: So psychology is our forte. We understand, but we've we've

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Speaker 2: gained or developed this understanding over thousands, tens of thousands

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Speaker 2: of years.

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Speaker 3: Yes we know about being human, yes, and surviving colonization

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Speaker 3: for instance. But and that's starting to happen in the

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Speaker 3: policy area. You know, We've got some fabulous like organizations

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Speaker 3: like Guy Dewey, Proud Spirit, they're our Peak Mental Health

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Speaker 3: se w B Suicide Prevention Organized Body, which I'm on

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Speaker 3: their board. So that's I'm giving them a shout out

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Speaker 3: to you.

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Speaker 1: What about Appstart Gregory.

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Speaker 3: Gregory Gregory Phillips. Oh, he's doing fabulous stuff.

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Speaker 4: Look to Gregory.

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Speaker 1: We love you, Gregory. Anilila loves you and honey Mary

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Speaker 1: loves you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, And there's like we've.

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Speaker 1: Been doing some work with Gregory.

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Speaker 2: I heard from somebody, Yeah, you were doing something with

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Speaker 2: the psychology boards or.

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Speaker 4: Some university Gregor Greg's work with us.

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Speaker 3: And this is amongst all these great policy changes that

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Speaker 3: are happening right now and the e mergence of Guy Dewey,

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Speaker 3: Proud Spirit, Thendigenous Psychologists Association, and so on. But Greg

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Speaker 3: work with us when we started looking at because that's

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Speaker 3: my interest area. Although it's generalizable, it could go into

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Speaker 3: social work wherever. We started this project where we looked

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Speaker 3: at changing psychology curriculum or to the discipline rather, and

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Speaker 3: it was about we needed to increase the number of

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Speaker 3: Indigenous psyches that went into psychology.

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Speaker 1: How many do we have?

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Speaker 4: Oh it's about yeah, about three hundred.

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Speaker 3: I would say easy, there's easily three hundred, but I

379
00:22:37,551 --> 00:22:40,751
Speaker 3: think this should be more. If they we did that parity,

380
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Speaker 3: you know the stats where if we're three percent of

381
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Speaker 3: the population, what should our numbers be.

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Speaker 4: We need over a thousand.

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Speaker 3: But we've got this big project happening which Greg was

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Speaker 3: a part of, and we did at the time, I

385
00:22:57,471 --> 00:22:59,951
Speaker 3: don't it was a bit of a hostile environment. But

386
00:23:00,031 --> 00:23:04,391
Speaker 3: we produced these big reports or frameworks on how to

387
00:23:04,431 --> 00:23:08,631
Speaker 3: increase the number of Indigenous students, how to indigenize your curriculum,

388
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Speaker 3: because regardless of how many students we get in, I

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Speaker 3: feel that mainstream psychologists need to be more culturally aware

390
00:23:16,551 --> 00:23:19,271
Speaker 3: or responsive if they're because they'll be seeing our people.

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Speaker 2: Do they have obligations or they yes? Is there somethink

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Speaker 2: within their accreditation on membership.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's happening with the After that first stage of

394
00:23:33,431 --> 00:23:39,351
Speaker 3: that project, that accreditation changed to include a bit of

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00:23:39,351 --> 00:23:42,591
Speaker 3: a vague cultural responsiveness. So I think that was the

396
00:23:42,631 --> 00:23:47,391
Speaker 3: start of it. Then we started this other research project

397
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Speaker 3: and we revived that. We call it the Australian Indigenous

398
00:23:50,911 --> 00:23:56,071
Speaker 3: Psychology Education Project, and that has just gone again. You know,

399
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Speaker 3: it's an environment because I thought, you know, we might

400
00:23:59,791 --> 00:24:02,031
Speaker 3: get a few people interested and we can have our

401
00:24:02,071 --> 00:24:04,991
Speaker 3: talks and write the odd paper, meet up in conferences

402
00:24:05,031 --> 00:24:08,831
Speaker 3: and whatnot. But I was overwhelmed by the response. It's

403
00:24:08,831 --> 00:24:14,471
Speaker 3: been amazing, So I actually I've got there's a new psychologist,

404
00:24:14,471 --> 00:24:21,111
Speaker 3: Bell Selkirk, who heads the project with another researcher, and

405
00:24:21,951 --> 00:24:25,111
Speaker 3: they pretty well look after it all. But out of

406
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Speaker 3: all the psych schools in Australia. I think this's thirty six.

407
00:24:29,711 --> 00:24:32,431
Speaker 3: I think twenty eight or nine have signed up to

408
00:24:32,471 --> 00:24:35,591
Speaker 3: be a part of the project, so they meet monthly.

409
00:24:35,751 --> 00:24:39,351
Speaker 3: They've got a community of practice, so things are changing.

410
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Speaker 3: You know. We've got this research project happening called Transforming

411
00:24:43,391 --> 00:24:46,911
Speaker 3: Indigenous Mental Health and well Being and that's exciting. So

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00:24:46,991 --> 00:24:51,831
Speaker 3: that does a number of different projects. The Australian Indigenous

413
00:24:51,871 --> 00:24:56,991
Speaker 3: Psychology Education Project is one of our projects. But Professor

414
00:24:57,031 --> 00:25:00,631
Speaker 3: Halen Milroy, our first Indigenous Psychiatrists, is a part of

415
00:25:00,671 --> 00:25:06,231
Speaker 3: it and she's working looking at cultural responsiveness within the

416
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Speaker 3: mental health area but also the role of traditional or

417
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Speaker 3: cultural healers. So we have a partnership with np Y

418
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Speaker 3: I won't try and say that name, but with the

419
00:25:18,711 --> 00:25:22,911
Speaker 3: Nuncer healers. So we're looking at everything. So we're doing

420
00:25:23,031 --> 00:25:27,551
Speaker 3: in building up our own models but also cultural responsiveness

421
00:25:27,551 --> 00:25:32,551
Speaker 3: across the board and so that's really exciting. I wish

422
00:25:32,631 --> 00:25:36,391
Speaker 3: it move it moves slow because our way too is

423
00:25:36,431 --> 00:25:38,471
Speaker 3: that we don't sit in the Ivory Tower and do

424
00:25:38,631 --> 00:25:39,391
Speaker 3: work on our own.

425
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Speaker 4: We actually work with communities.

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Speaker 1: And that will happened when it happens.

427
00:25:42,911 --> 00:25:44,991
Speaker 4: They are yeah, so that you've got to build in

428
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Speaker 4: time for that.

429
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Speaker 3: But I could never not do that speak on behalf

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Speaker 3: of our people without their involvement. So we work very

431
00:25:53,191 --> 00:25:57,991
Speaker 3: closely with unity, with appropriate people and with community. NA

432
00:25:58,151 --> 00:26:02,391
Speaker 3: chose a partner on that grand as well, so I'm

433
00:26:02,431 --> 00:26:06,271
Speaker 3: comfortable about that. Our approach to research, well, mine is

434
00:26:06,311 --> 00:26:11,671
Speaker 3: in any case, is aboriginal participaty action research where we

435
00:26:11,751 --> 00:26:15,591
Speaker 3: are anti colonial, we are a bit political because that's

436
00:26:15,671 --> 00:26:20,711
Speaker 3: the space that we're as Indigenous people occupy and it's

437
00:26:20,751 --> 00:26:25,271
Speaker 3: about you know, inclusiveness, moving with our own mob and

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00:26:25,351 --> 00:26:27,671
Speaker 3: making positive social change.

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00:26:27,951 --> 00:26:31,671
Speaker 2: And Annie, you are on TikTok yes, Arnie's got a

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00:26:31,751 --> 00:26:32,831
Speaker 2: TikTok account.

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00:26:33,431 --> 00:26:37,751
Speaker 3: Could Okay, there's one of our After the referendum, and

442
00:26:38,031 --> 00:26:39,471
Speaker 3: I don't need to go into that.

443
00:26:40,271 --> 00:26:42,791
Speaker 4: How devastated we all were from that.

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00:26:44,391 --> 00:26:47,271
Speaker 3: Us older ones we thought, oh, when it was looking

445
00:26:47,351 --> 00:26:49,111
Speaker 3: like it would be a no, we thought, oh, we

446
00:26:49,191 --> 00:26:51,951
Speaker 3: can deal with this. You know, we've been around and

447
00:26:52,111 --> 00:26:55,031
Speaker 3: been disappointed. But it did have an impact that I

448
00:26:55,111 --> 00:26:59,471
Speaker 3: didn't expect. But when it all happened, my thoughts went

449
00:26:59,511 --> 00:27:03,111
Speaker 3: out to our youth and our allies. So we were

450
00:27:03,151 --> 00:27:06,791
Speaker 3: really worriedorried about the youth. You know, you know, our

451
00:27:06,951 --> 00:27:10,191
Speaker 3: suicide rates and so on. Part of that is because

452
00:27:10,231 --> 00:27:14,671
Speaker 3: of the systemic racism and exclusion from society.

453
00:27:15,191 --> 00:27:17,031
Speaker 4: So I was really concerned.

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00:27:16,591 --> 00:27:20,631
Speaker 3: About youth because that no vote basically said that, you know,

455
00:27:20,751 --> 00:27:24,871
Speaker 3: we weren't worthy to be included into the constitution. So

456
00:27:25,471 --> 00:27:28,751
Speaker 3: I know there's a whole bunch of different initiatives that

457
00:27:28,951 --> 00:27:32,551
Speaker 3: will start to look after our youth. But we thought, hey,

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00:27:32,631 --> 00:27:37,071
Speaker 3: let's get some positive messaging out. And we figure that

459
00:27:37,231 --> 00:27:40,991
Speaker 3: youth live in TikTok. They are unlike ARSI light looking

460
00:27:40,991 --> 00:27:43,671
Speaker 3: at Facebook, they probably have a quick luk, but that's

461
00:27:43,711 --> 00:27:47,191
Speaker 3: where most Aboriginal youth are and they're doing some fabulous

462
00:27:47,231 --> 00:27:51,431
Speaker 3: work too. So we start this TikTok called Auntie TJ.

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00:27:52,151 --> 00:27:56,911
Speaker 3: And that's Tellamani Meyer, who's a young elder from here

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00:27:57,071 --> 00:28:00,071
Speaker 3: from Perth, and we bought her out of retirement and

465
00:28:00,111 --> 00:28:03,591
Speaker 3: she's been doing these amazing tiktoks, just talking yarning up

466
00:28:03,711 --> 00:28:05,751
Speaker 3: with youth and giving them a bit of advice in

467
00:28:05,791 --> 00:28:10,351
Speaker 3: a very gentle, non judgmental way. So guys, do have

468
00:28:10,391 --> 00:28:13,311
Speaker 3: a look if you're on TikTok, look at Auntie TJ.

469
00:28:13,591 --> 00:28:15,631
Speaker 4: Is it just TJ TJ?

470
00:28:15,951 --> 00:28:17,831
Speaker 1: Deadly and you've got Gucci.

471
00:28:18,511 --> 00:28:22,031
Speaker 3: I have got my own TikTok, which I taught myself,

472
00:28:22,591 --> 00:28:26,231
Speaker 3: so I'm not that sophisticated Arnie.

473
00:28:26,751 --> 00:28:28,591
Speaker 1: Arnie knows where the youth are at.

474
00:28:28,911 --> 00:28:32,431
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, but I don't think youth would be that interested.

475
00:28:32,551 --> 00:28:35,471
Speaker 4: But I like it and that's what counts.

476
00:28:36,551 --> 00:28:39,791
Speaker 3: But during lockdown, I taught myself TikTok, and I've got

477
00:28:39,831 --> 00:28:44,031
Speaker 3: my accounts called Gucci Precious and it's all about beautiful cats.

478
00:28:44,071 --> 00:28:44,751
Speaker 4: So there you go.

479
00:28:45,031 --> 00:28:46,991
Speaker 1: Well, I can't wait to learn TikTok.

480
00:28:47,071 --> 00:28:50,991
Speaker 2: Aren't you beat me? Arnie knows it's on TikTok. So

481
00:28:51,031 --> 00:28:55,071
Speaker 2: look a Arnie, I just want to say thank you.

482
00:28:54,631 --> 00:28:57,031
Speaker 4: For coming in ed my pleasure.

483
00:28:56,711 --> 00:29:00,231
Speaker 1: Coming in here on the counch to have a deadly yarn.

484
00:29:00,951 --> 00:29:04,991
Speaker 2: Your work, your contribution to our people right across this

485
00:29:05,151 --> 00:29:08,551
Speaker 2: country hasn't gone unnoticed. All of the work that you

486
00:29:08,671 --> 00:29:10,111
Speaker 2: do and you continue to do on all.

487
00:29:10,031 --> 00:29:13,511
Speaker 1: Of your energy. It's just in terms of sitting here

488
00:29:13,511 --> 00:29:13,791
Speaker 1: as a.

489
00:29:13,751 --> 00:29:19,071
Speaker 2: Younger person, I can't complain. I've got nothing to complain about.

490
00:29:19,511 --> 00:29:24,311
Speaker 2: You're still going. Nothing can stop you, and I hope

491
00:29:24,311 --> 00:29:26,311
Speaker 2: that when I get to your age that I still

492
00:29:26,311 --> 00:29:28,591
Speaker 2: have that energy to keep on going.

493
00:29:28,751 --> 00:29:31,111
Speaker 4: Will thank you art my pleasure.

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00:29:31,671 --> 00:29:35,111
Speaker 2: I know you've enjoyed this episode. Until next time, Bye

495
00:29:35,111 --> 00:29:38,751
Speaker 2: for now. If you'd like any more on today's guest,

496
00:29:38,871 --> 00:29:43,831
Speaker 2: please visit our show notes in the episode description. A

497
00:29:43,871 --> 00:29:46,671
Speaker 2: big shout out to all you Deadly Mob and allies

498
00:29:46,711 --> 00:29:50,311
Speaker 2: who continue to listen, watch, and support our podcast. Your

499
00:29:50,351 --> 00:29:53,591
Speaker 2: feedback means the world. You can rate and review the

500
00:29:53,631 --> 00:29:56,711
Speaker 2: podcast on Apple and Spotify, or even head to our

501
00:29:56,751 --> 00:29:59,471
Speaker 2: socials and YouTube channel and drop us a line.

502
00:29:59,591 --> 00:30:00,751
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you.

503
00:30:01,471 --> 00:30:04,071
Speaker 2: The Black Magic Woman Podcast is produce used to buy

504
00:30:04,151 --> 00:30:04,991
Speaker 2: Clint Curtis

505
00:30:13,751 --> 00:30:13,951
Speaker 1: HM