Speaker 1: Gid He Peter, Hell, are you here? Welcome to You
Speaker 1: ain't seen nothing yet? The Movie Podcast, where our chat
Speaker 1: to a movie lover about a classic or beloved movie
Speaker 1: they haven't quite got around to watching until now. And
Speaker 1: today's guest singer, songwriter, musician, podcaster, broadcaster, author, entrepreneur mate
Speaker 1: Claire Bonditch. The first rule of fake club is you
Speaker 1: do not talk about fake club.
Speaker 2: Now as you're afraid of you broke my heart. I
Speaker 2: admy your luck, mister Bond, James Bond.
Speaker 1: They couldn't happen any right now, You ain't seen nothing yet.
Speaker 1: If the keys to a happy, healthy life is to
Speaker 1: surround yourself with positive, creative people, than everyone to try
Speaker 1: to become mates with Claire Bontage. Now, understandably, not everyone
Speaker 1: is able to make that happen for a variety of
Speaker 1: reasons geography, access, etc. But what you should do is
Speaker 1: attempt to devour the creativity of Claire Bontage anyway you can.
Speaker 1: And the great news is, due to the prolific and
Speaker 1: neglecting nature of Claire's work, there is more opportunities than
Speaker 1: with most people. Firstly, there is Claire's music from her
Speaker 1: debut release Autumn Bone to What Was Left, featuring her
Speaker 1: breakout hit Divorcee at twenty three. It's still such a
Speaker 1: stunning song. The moon looked on the Winter. I chose
Speaker 1: Happiness Incredible albums for me. My favorite and for many
Speaker 1: is her seminal album Modern Day Addiction, with which is
Speaker 1: a true masterpiece in my top five of all time.
Speaker 1: I revisit it quite often, and if you haven't listened
Speaker 1: to it, I urge you to do so. I have
Speaker 1: been guilty of forcing people to listen to songs from
Speaker 1: this album. At a post Logi's function, I made a
Speaker 1: group of people listen to Claire's song Your Own kind
Speaker 1: of Girl, and I said, if you have daughters, you
Speaker 1: need to listen to this song and make them.
Speaker 3: Listen to it.
Speaker 1: I don't have daughters, so I'll just force other people
Speaker 1: with daughters to listen to that song. It's such an
Speaker 1: incredible song, so many incredible songs on that album. Please
Speaker 1: listen to it if you haven't already, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: you will love it. Using the title of that song,
Speaker 1: Claire released her raw, honest and life affirming memoir Your
Speaker 1: Own Kind of Girl, which again I have passed on
Speaker 1: to many many people.
Speaker 3: It is a stunning piece of work.
Speaker 1: Claire is also a social entrepreneur, founding The Big Heart
Speaker 1: of Business, which exists to teach creative people about business
Speaker 1: and business people about creativity in ways that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Claire was in Offspring. She hosted ABC Radio. She's a podcaster.
Speaker 1: Claire is honest, believes in the power of positivity, but
Speaker 1: he's not afraid to speak about her own demons and
Speaker 1: self doubts. Claire is incredibly talented, compassionate, funny, and I'm
Speaker 1: bloody stoked to be hanging with her today.
Speaker 2: Hello, I'm Claiboditch. My three favorite films are as follows
Speaker 2: one car Wires in the Mood for Love, I'm all
Speaker 2: I'm going to take which one you have? The Sound
Speaker 2: of Music? By the Sound of Music, O Ray Me
Speaker 2: Do Rainy, and lastly Black Balloon by Alissa Down Why
Speaker 2: Hello Hellou. But the truth is there's now another contender
Speaker 2: in the mix. Until last night, I've never seen the
Speaker 2: movie Rocky.
Speaker 1: Surely this is one movie that barely needs a synopsis provided.
Speaker 1: Is there anyone on this planet Earth who doesn't know
Speaker 1: what Rocky is about? On November twenty five, nineteen seventy five,
Speaker 1: we find a small time boxer getting heckled and ged,
Speaker 1: and the rams shackled about in a dodgy gym. Despite
Speaker 1: being declared the winner, the Italian Stallion claims forty four
Speaker 1: dollars fifty five cents after locker, shower and twel charges
Speaker 1: are deducted. If this isn't rock Bottom, it's pretty close.
Speaker 1: For Rocky Balboa, played of course by Sylvester Stallone, who
Speaker 1: also wrote the screenplayed living in a shithole, working for
Speaker 1: a loan shark, barely able to get the attention of
Speaker 1: local pet store worker Adrian, played beautifully by Talia Shaier,
Speaker 1: but things eventually are on the way up. Heavyweight champion
Speaker 1: of the World Apollo Creed Carl Weathers show boats into
Speaker 1: town talking a big game, but that talk gets curtailed
Speaker 1: when his opponent is injured. Determined not to miss out
Speaker 1: on the chance for another payday, Apollo has the idea
Speaker 1: to give an unknown fighter the chance of a lifetime.
Speaker 1: Directed by John G. Elbertson said it in a fever.
Speaker 1: The Crawati Kids Stand by Me, an iconic score by
Speaker 1: Bill Conti, the highest grossing film of nineteen seventy six,
Speaker 1: It won three Oscars for Best Film, Best Director and
Speaker 1: Best Editing. Rocky is the ultimate underdog Rags the Riches movie,
Speaker 1: Claire Boatage. Are you inspired enough to run up the
Speaker 1: steps of Parliament House in Spring Street here in Melbourne?
Speaker 2: Not only am I inspired enough? I already did it alone.
Speaker 2: That's why I was laid.
Speaker 3: Welcome to you ain't doing nothing yet.
Speaker 2: Absolute treat. This is one of my favorite podcasts.
Speaker 1: Oh well, you're very kind. And I had the treat
Speaker 1: last night because I watched it last night as you did.
Speaker 1: And I know you watched it because you sent me
Speaker 1: love the little videos throughout throughout you. You were set up,
Speaker 1: you had popcorn, we did Did you watch it by yourself?
Speaker 3: As the family?
Speaker 2: Myself, my cat, my dog, my husband Marty, and one
Speaker 2: of my sons, Oscar. So the other kids were out,
Speaker 2: that's the only reason they weren't watching. Yeah, I said
Speaker 2: to them, guys, I was not allowed to watch this
Speaker 2: when I was a child. I'm giving you the opportunity
Speaker 2: now now they're fifteen, fifteen, and nineteen. So they were
Speaker 2: so two of them left the house and with the
Speaker 2: other one stayed and we got to watch it together.
Speaker 1: Who there's a lot to talk about and we'll get
Speaker 1: to it soon. So this is something you weren't allowed
Speaker 1: to watch, and we spoke about as I do most guests.
Speaker 1: There's a couple of films that we I ask you
Speaker 1: that you haven't seen. There were I think Aaron Brockovich
Speaker 1: may have been one that was tantalizing to chat to
Speaker 1: you about. That would have been amazing. But I feel
Speaker 1: like Rocky is such an iconic film and I we've
Speaker 1: been close to maybe getting it done. Luke McGregor nominated
Speaker 1: but then told me it's like three months earlier. They're
Speaker 1: not the rules, Luke.
Speaker 2: No, Luke. I mean, look, he's an artist, so he's
Speaker 2: always pushing the boundaries. No, that's not the rules. And
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful that they are the rules and that
Speaker 2: you've stuck to them. Like, I appreciate this disciplinary sort
Speaker 2: of streaking you because I've benefited greatly from it.
Speaker 1: Well, I cannot wait to get stuck in talking about Rocky.
Speaker 1: There's so much to talk about. Let's talk about your
Speaker 1: three favorite films. Great Now, I thought the first one,
Speaker 1: I have no idea what this film is. I thought
Speaker 1: you were about to say Willy Wonk and my mind
Speaker 1: with the chocolate Factory. Yeah, yeah, so my apologies, not
Speaker 1: at all, not at all.
Speaker 2: It was actually Jelly in the Chocolate Factory. The original
Speaker 2: was one of my favorite films as a child. But
Speaker 2: Wanka Wai is an incredible Shanghai based director whose beauty
Speaker 2: and ability to play with light just broke my heart
Speaker 2: when the first time I saw in the Mood for Love,
Speaker 2: which is essentially a story, you know, a story about
Speaker 2: two people who are engaging in falling in love. It
Speaker 2: was made in two thousand, but the first time I
Speaker 2: saw it, I just felt that I had seen something
Speaker 2: that would stay with me for life, something that was
Speaker 2: beautiful and true. Now the world felt the same way,
Speaker 2: you know. It's one of the few films and few
Speaker 2: filmmakers from Asia who was able to crack through into
Speaker 2: a Western market. His movies are all subtitled, so they're
Speaker 2: all in original language. But it's just a beautiful, contemplative story.
Speaker 2: And as always, it's the soundtrack. Who I don't know
Speaker 2: who wrote the soundtrack. Actually that's ridiculous, I'm making a
Speaker 2: note here, but the soundtrack, the way it all worked
Speaker 2: together and the gentleness of the movie was just so beautiful.
Speaker 1: So it stuck in my heart all of these years,
Speaker 1: and what's the film about.
Speaker 2: It's really essentially about two people, two people who are
Speaker 2: living quite small lives and find each other within that life.
Speaker 2: They engage on what could be called an affair of
Speaker 2: sorts or the contemplation of an affair for a lot
Speaker 2: of it. So I won't spoil that for you, but
Speaker 2: that's part of its beauty. It's about real people in
Speaker 2: real life and the emotional struggle of trying to find
Speaker 2: truth and connection in an environment where it's not encouraged.
Speaker 1: You spoke about light, then we're actually having a conversation
Speaker 1: about light the recording and you think about light a lot,
Speaker 1: like you have a relationship with light, and that obviously
Speaker 1: you when you perform, whether it be in a video
Speaker 1: or on stage, you must be thinking about light a lot.
Speaker 1: Did this Did this inform that? Were you? Were you
Speaker 1: aware of your relationship with light when you watch us on?
Speaker 1: Did this begin that relationship?
Speaker 2: Let's just let's just go back track a bit and
Speaker 2: explain this. When I say relationship with light, light, I
Speaker 2: guess what Pete's referring to is, you know, previous conversation
Speaker 2: we've had based on a renovation that we're doing where
Speaker 2: myself and my lovely electrician. You know, we were learning
Speaker 2: from each other. He was fascinated by the strength of
Speaker 2: feeling that I had around the color, the warmth, and
Speaker 2: the choice of light. So I'll explain it. We all
Speaker 2: have our own sensitivities, things that sort of You know,
Speaker 2: you might smell jackfruit and not like the smell. It's
Speaker 2: very You know, your sense of smell is really strong.
Speaker 2: One is too, But one of my strongest emotional reactions
Speaker 2: and senses is sight and light. So if we're in
Speaker 2: a room and there's white light, and I realized this
Speaker 2: as a kid, I just don't feel great. I feel
Speaker 2: cold and scared. If there is warm light, I feel
Speaker 2: open and able to It's sort of like I feel
Speaker 2: like I belong. Now call it synase easier or something
Speaker 2: else if you like, that's fine, But I think it's
Speaker 2: not uncommon. So I'm not sure if Wi's ability to
Speaker 2: play with light, it probably did inform me. But I
Speaker 2: think what it did was I responded to it because
Speaker 2: I saw that he saw light in the same way,
Speaker 2: or he felt the emotional quality of light in the
Speaker 2: same way I do. It sounds ridiculous, but if I can.
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem ridiculous at all. And the reason I
Speaker 1: wanted to mention it because I just maybe think we
Speaker 1: don't often take in. Everyone's so busy, we don't often
Speaker 1: take in. We might go, oh, I like this, I
Speaker 1: like the way that smells, or I love the way
Speaker 1: you know that that thing looks, but we don't then go, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: how do I make those choices in my life to
Speaker 1: have these things surrounding me more often?
Speaker 2: And I think what happens is some of us who
Speaker 2: are sensitive to certain things, it really affects our life.
Speaker 2: So that's why we're forced to sort of consider it.
Speaker 2: And that's probably what happened with me. I just realize
Speaker 2: I'm a perform and I would reflect back on performances.
Speaker 2: Why was that useful? Well, like why did I kill
Speaker 2: it that night and not another night? And so often
Speaker 2: it had to do with the sensitivity the lighting in
Speaker 2: the room, And it goes back to probably a basic
Speaker 2: human or maybe mammalian impulse. Let's say cats don't give
Speaker 2: birth in full light. Women prefer to give birth in
Speaker 2: modest light as well, just because it's one less thing
Speaker 2: to think about. You know, cats go to the back
Speaker 2: of the cupboard where it's dark and they do their thing.
Speaker 2: So anytime I'm vulnerable if the lights are bright. And
Speaker 2: this is an interrogation technique, you know, it's been used,
Speaker 2: breeans to the lights are bright, you're overwhelmed and you're
Speaker 2: probably not responding to whatever that is that you want to,
Speaker 2: the nuance of whatever it is, the subtlety of whatever
Speaker 2: it is that's going on.
Speaker 1: But it's why restaurants often use handles, Yes, you know,
Speaker 1: as opposed to your spotlights.
Speaker 2: It probably goes all the way back there. You know,
Speaker 2: we were people around the campfire once. We were people
Speaker 2: who didn't actually have any exposure to electric light until
Speaker 2: the very first person who could call himself an electrician, Edison.
Speaker 2: What luck he invented? Edison was the first electrician. We
Speaker 2: think of it as a normal, you know, everyday trade
Speaker 2: and very important trade. But it didn't exist until that
Speaker 2: dude made it exists. Isn't that wild?
Speaker 3: It's crazy?
Speaker 2: And the same too with podcasters. I mean they didn't
Speaker 2: exist until quite recently exactly.
Speaker 3: And we're taking the will by storm, both of us. Claire,
Speaker 3: go see that movie.
Speaker 2: That's all I'm saying is beautiful.
Speaker 3: Yes, when was it made two thousand and two, two
Speaker 3: thousands great.
Speaker 1: I think The Sound of Music is a movie that
Speaker 1: we covered recently with the wonderful Judith Flucy.
Speaker 2: I can't believe that Judah had not seen it more.
Speaker 1: Than any other. I mean, I'm sure that you haven't
Speaker 1: seen Rocky, but I understand it. Jude seemed to be
Speaker 1: raised Catholic. I think you actually considered becoming a nun
Speaker 1: like a movie buff. None of it made sense, and
Speaker 1: I had seen it. I'd seen the Sound of Music.
Speaker 1: Not as many times I've seen Star Wars, but kind
Speaker 1: of in the vicinity.
Speaker 2: Do you like the movie?
Speaker 3: I love the movie.
Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, that's right, because that's the right answer. Now,
Speaker 2: I don't trust people who tell me they don't like
Speaker 2: the Sound of Music. I'm sorry if that's you. But
Speaker 2: what's going on there? What? How can you not love
Speaker 2: that movie?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean you might have Jack with dude, that's right,
Speaker 1: you know why?
Speaker 2: Because I think you had to be indoctrinated early, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe that's it.
Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of movies like that.
Speaker 1: I think this really this is one of those movies,
Speaker 1: because I think Jude made some reasonable, reasonably good points
Speaker 1: about the lack of plot.
Speaker 2: In the movie and the extended plot and that you know, yeah, look,
Speaker 2: she's not wrong, and.
Speaker 3: It doesn't after the Nazis invade.
Speaker 1: It kind of doesn't coome about Maria after that, after
Speaker 1: the wedding doesn't really become about Maria became was kind
Speaker 1: of Captain von Trapp's movie. And yeah, but.
Speaker 2: The music and la costumes as well, but also the
Speaker 2: spirit of the thing, which is again this story of
Speaker 2: someone who is doggedly intent on being who she is
Speaker 2: within the confines of society at that time. You know,
Speaker 2: Maria V's she should never have been a nun like
Speaker 2: we knew that from seeing her that was that was
Speaker 2: not her fate. She was there to sing and share songs.
Speaker 2: It is the ease with which she says shares songs
Speaker 2: and the normalcy of that that I think I love
Speaker 2: as an adults as well as a costume. So we
Speaker 2: mentioned the costumes. I've actually got a dress that I
Speaker 2: bought recently in the style of the Maria von Trapp
Speaker 2: playsuits made out of the curtains. I wore that at
Speaker 2: a show recently, great response. It's sort of white with green.
Speaker 3: Have you ever sung any sound music live like thrown
Speaker 3: in the little.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did a sort of chrissy. This one called
Speaker 2: it quite a spooky, enchanting improv of you know, the
Speaker 2: song farewell alvidazain adue to. I can't remember the name
Speaker 2: of the action, but yeah, on the stairs. Recently at
Speaker 2: a show it was responded too strongly, I think positively.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but.
Speaker 1: I did carry up the stairs.
Speaker 2: It was at the forensics full room and the stick
Speaker 2: there was a staircase, so that was all part of it.
Speaker 2: And I was wearing the bond trap dress. But it
Speaker 2: was in the spirit of a random creative adventure. You know,
Speaker 2: sometimes we've got to try stuff that's a bit scary
Speaker 2: and it makes us feel alive again. So that's why
Speaker 2: I did that. But that that story of what creativity
Speaker 2: can bring to her life, now, that was really important
Speaker 2: for me as a little kid. We watched this. We
Speaker 2: watched that movie with my family. I think it might
Speaker 2: have been at Rye camping ground, local town hall. I
Speaker 2: remember Albi Mangele's Adventures being there on there and also
Speaker 2: the sound of music, and it was just a sort
Speaker 2: of a show that was always on every time it
Speaker 2: came on TV. But we'd all sit down and watch
Speaker 2: it together, but we'd be sent to bed before the
Speaker 2: Nazis came, you know, so we would usuerally watch the
Speaker 2: first half of the second half. It was shocking as
Speaker 2: an adult tatch it.
Speaker 1: I did learn, maybe unsurprisingly, that when I was researching
Speaker 1: for the Dudes episode, that in Germany, like a lot
Speaker 1: of the German executives and film industry, they wanted basically
Speaker 1: to end at the wedding, so that was where it
Speaker 1: swised to end.
Speaker 3: So you basically saw the German version of the elm.
Speaker 2: I saw the German version, the thought that it is
Speaker 2: actually based on a true story, The thought that that
Speaker 2: von Trapp family did run away and find shelter in
Speaker 2: the hills in some canton, you know, that's all extraordinary, and.
Speaker 1: They left behind that they left behind that house like
Speaker 1: they left with very little money. Eventually got to America
Speaker 1: and and what was one of the fascinating things I
Speaker 1: learned was the real Maria von Trapp had, like I think,
Speaker 1: her parents died when she was very young. She was
Speaker 1: raised by an uncle who was not very nice. And
Speaker 1: it was when she actually when the kids showed her
Speaker 1: love that was and they gave her a kiss that
Speaker 1: was the first time she'd ever actually been kissed any
Speaker 1: in any way, shape or form. And she fell in
Speaker 1: love with the kids before she fell in love with
Speaker 1: Captain von Trapp.
Speaker 2: Wow, I mean, wouldn't be the first time a woman
Speaker 2: has I mean maybe Von Trapp was a bit of
Speaker 2: a pain in the a And you know, having.
Speaker 1: That whistle like the whistle was whizzle was too much.
Speaker 3: And the use of.
Speaker 2: Soft lens in that movie too, I don't know, Look,
Speaker 2: it just it blew my mind. Yeah, I didn't know
Speaker 2: there was soft lens. All I knew is I was
Speaker 2: looking at the screen suddenly everything was soft and sweet. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I think it was the sweetness perhaps of the film,
Speaker 2: her rebellious nature within the strict confines of the time,
Speaker 2: and also the frugality of it. So there they are
Speaker 2: these you know, brilliant he's a millionaire, but she's using
Speaker 2: what they have curtains and so on. Now, my mum
Speaker 2: was brought up. I was born in Melbourne. Mom was
Speaker 2: born in Amsterdam in forty two, in the middle of
Speaker 2: occupied Amsterdam, one of eleven and she grew up through
Speaker 2: the First World War and the aftermath of that, and
Speaker 2: she often speaks about the cleverness with which people were
Speaker 2: able to repurpose things. You know, they didn't have much food,
Speaker 2: so sometimes people would because everything was on ration, so
Speaker 2: sometimes people would just make soup out of potato peels.
Speaker 2: So to see her making costumes out of the curtains,
Speaker 2: I just love that. It was so deeply creative. But anyway,
Speaker 2: so that's the sound of music, my gosh.
Speaker 1: And another fun fact if you haven't listened to for
Speaker 1: those who haven't listened to the episodes, this live too.
Speaker 1: At this stage our only live performance. Will do some
Speaker 1: more soon. But one of my favorite facts was the
Speaker 1: money that the von Trap's got. The reason they got
Speaker 1: so much money is not because of Captain von Trapp,
Speaker 1: because his late wife and her great grandfather, I think,
Speaker 1: invented the torpedo.
Speaker 3: It was torpedo money.
Speaker 2: That is fascinating. The other thing to mention about that
Speaker 2: movie and why it's so deeply affecting still, it's like
Speaker 2: all a lot of the stories that we see set
Speaker 2: in that time, which is you see the courage of
Speaker 2: people who stood up to what was clearly wrong and
Speaker 2: the sacrifice that they made, and I just you know,
Speaker 2: I just think when you can combine that with song
Speaker 2: and dance, because you know, Rocky didn't have song and
Speaker 2: dance Didy. We'll talk about that later, but when you
Speaker 2: can combine that in that way, it's no wonder the
Speaker 2: world fell in love with that movie. Yeah, I respect you,
Speaker 2: but that's it. That's one of my favorites.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, I agree, Black Balloon.
Speaker 2: It's hard for me to choose a favorite movie. There
Speaker 2: are so many wonderful Australian directors and movies. A couple
Speaker 2: of years back, I had the pleasure of working with
Speaker 2: a crew on a television show, got Offspring. Now I'm
Speaker 2: not an actor, but you'll be great work, Thanks Buddy.
Speaker 2: During COVID Offspring came on a streaming service for the
Speaker 2: first time and it's created a renaissance in my own
Speaker 2: recognizability at the supermarket shallow stades. The point being I
Speaker 2: had a very minor role is the truth of it.
Speaker 2: But I had the pleasure there of understanding more about
Speaker 2: how films are made and filmmakers create their work and
Speaker 2: also directors. Black Balloon was made by one of the
Speaker 2: incredible directors I got to work with on Offspring. Her
Speaker 2: name is Alissa Down. She wrote and directed this film.
Speaker 2: It was based on her life, really and to understand
Speaker 2: the enormous effort it takes to create a film. You know,
Speaker 2: that was my first insight into all of that. But
Speaker 2: that's not why I love the film. When I watched it,
Speaker 2: It's a powerful, beautiful story featuring a family who were
Speaker 2: different yet again set I think in the seventies, late seventies,
Speaker 2: early eighties, a number of unusual stars. Tony Collet's in there,
Speaker 2: but also Jima Ward, who was a model at the time.
Speaker 2: But the story itself is about it's sold through the
Speaker 2: perspective of a brother whose brother is severely autistic in
Speaker 2: a time where we really didn't understand what that meant
Speaker 2: to live, what it meant within a family to live
Speaker 2: with that kind of incredible difference. I'll just say that
Speaker 2: it's a beautifully told film because it's true film. It
Speaker 2: talks about the concepts of the time, the toughness of
Speaker 2: the time, those Australian ideas of you know, you're weak
Speaker 2: if you don't take care of your own but the
Speaker 2: effect that having a sibling who's different in your family
Speaker 2: can have on a family in both a difficult way
Speaker 2: also in a really profoundly beautiful way. So there's a
Speaker 2: depth to this story. As I said, it is based
Speaker 2: somewhat on Melissa's own experience. I just thought it was
Speaker 2: gorgeously executed. It's a comedy drama.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a beautiful film. I did see it when
Speaker 1: it came out. I don't think I could add anything
Speaker 1: that as any more than what you've said, but I
Speaker 1: remember being blown away by all the performances, by the
Speaker 1: craft of the film, and then the power of it.
Speaker 3: It's a beautiful film.
Speaker 2: Even as I'm talking about I'm sort of stumbling over
Speaker 2: it because I haven't seen it for a few years now,
Speaker 2: but it's one that sat with me. One of the
Speaker 2: things I really was delighted by was the performance of
Speaker 2: jem Award. We don't expect much from you know, if
Speaker 2: you don't know who she is. She's a person who
Speaker 2: is very famous for being a model as a teenager,
Speaker 2: I don't know what, and she's sort of gone quite quiet.
Speaker 2: She's living quite a private life. Kate Bush Star, you know,
Speaker 2: had a lot of success, prefers a privacy, and he's
Speaker 2: unusual in that way too, so I find that all
Speaker 2: quite fascinating. But her performance was so true. I don't
Speaker 2: know that it stretched her terribly, and I've always wondered
Speaker 2: what else she might have to offer to acting if
Speaker 2: she wanted to. But it was a beautiful surprise. There's
Speaker 2: a tenderness to that film. Yeah, it's a beauty.
Speaker 1: It's a great nomination. Great three films. Now let's move
Speaker 1: on and let's talk about the film we are here
Speaker 1: to talk about nineteen seventy six. The highest grocing film
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy six won the Oscar written amazingly. When
Speaker 1: people find out, I think people forget who wrote this film.
Speaker 1: The star of the film wrote it. So it'sisterlone. It's
Speaker 1: set up eight movies spanning over five decades. Eight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there you go.
Speaker 2: I've got so much ahead of me.
Speaker 1: Oh, you'll be coming back. Claire an incredible film, iconic
Speaker 1: Claire Boatage. Did you enjoy Rocky?
Speaker 2: I can't tell you how much I enjoyed Rocky.
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm so glad. I mean when you came in,
Speaker 1: you know you were making some motions towards enjoying it,
Speaker 1: and you did send me a video last night of
Speaker 1: you pumping the air when Rocky goes up the stairs.
Speaker 2: I am surprised how much I loved it. I thought
Speaker 2: that i'd watched it, actually, And when I look down
Speaker 2: a sort of list of movies that of the era
Speaker 2: that I hadn't watched it, I thought to myself, No,
Speaker 2: I've never seen Rocky. What I'd seen a few of
Speaker 2: the iconic images yep, of course Rocky pumping and pumping
Speaker 2: fists in the air, running down the streets of Philly,
Speaker 2: maybe smashing a clump of meat. I might have seen
Speaker 2: that clip at some point. And of course I knew
Speaker 2: the music extremely well, but not so well. I actually
Speaker 2: thought I have the Tiger as part of Rocky One.
Speaker 1: It's not it's so funny because I sent Derek here
Speaker 1: at Casway Studios. I sent him either Tigers who will
Speaker 1: played at the start? And he goes, it's actually Rocky too, Matey,
Speaker 1: Hell it is too, Because I said him before I
Speaker 1: watched it last night.
Speaker 2: It's Bill CONTI was the music maker of this Rocky soundtrack,
Speaker 2: and you know, you know all the songs, you think
Speaker 2: you know the movie. I'd never seen it. I just
Speaker 2: didn't realize that there was a story there that was
Speaker 2: beyond two like spashion each other and us getting sort
Speaker 2: of inspo. And I always sort of knew that it
Speaker 2: had some effect on dress code. You know, there's a
Speaker 2: common dress code that i'd seen and spotted in the
Speaker 2: eighties of men with fedoras on and leather jackets. I
Speaker 2: didn't you know. Now I know where that came from.
Speaker 2: You still see it around from time to time, and.
Speaker 1: I like that he came in bouncing your squash ball
Speaker 1: this morning too. Exactly did it reshape how you and
Speaker 1: you just saw it last night? And this podcast? I
Speaker 1: always remind people you're still processing what you saw last night.
Speaker 1: So did it reshape in your mind? Sylvester Stallone, it
Speaker 1: sure did.
Speaker 2: You can hear that. I'm slightly speechless here because, of course,
Speaker 2: after watching the movie, I haven't slept. I've been up
Speaker 2: all night really finding out more about Sylvester his contribution.
Speaker 2: I underrated him, is what I'm going to say. I
Speaker 2: thought he was someone who got lucky. Somewhere along the line,
Speaker 2: someone funded a few film and spawned you know, it
Speaker 2: was really the beginning of spawning second, third, fourth, fifth,
Speaker 2: et cetera. Serials of movies. None of that is true.
Speaker 2: Sylvester Sallone was a kid who was maybe in his
Speaker 2: thirties when this film finally got up. He wrote the
Speaker 2: film himself after failing and failing and failing in his
Speaker 2: career as an attempted actor in America in the seventies,
Speaker 2: and this was his last chance Texico. You know, this
Speaker 2: was a script that he wrote based on, you know,
Speaker 2: some thoughts that he had, possibly even I think there
Speaker 2: was a court case later on about who was actually
Speaker 2: based on and so on. But he's telling a biographical
Speaker 2: story and he put everything into it. And the same
Speaker 2: way Rocky did. He refused to allow anyone to buy
Speaker 2: the film the script of the film without him being
Speaker 2: attached to it. He was offered an enormous amount of
Speaker 2: money to sell it someone else would play it, and
Speaker 2: he said no. So there was all that sort of
Speaker 2: really interesting stuff about Sylvesterter line.
Speaker 1: He said no with one hundred and six dollars in
Speaker 1: the bank. Wow, And he was offered three hundred and
Speaker 1: forty thousand dollars in nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 2: What's that like? Fifteen million?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's something huge.
Speaker 2: Iant to just do a calculator, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Fifteen million dollars.
Speaker 2: She had one, yeah, one, three, three.
Speaker 1: But it is incredible because he also was playing these
Speaker 1: roles where he was. He was the mugger. So I
Speaker 1: told them, Stephen Colberts, I was always a mugger. I
Speaker 1: mugged you know Kojack Jack Kojack and Edward Woodwood and
Speaker 1: you know all these other guys in these TV.
Speaker 2: Shows, and couldn't get a break, could Yeah?
Speaker 1: And then he thought, well, what happens if I can
Speaker 1: obviously people ask how people see me? What if I
Speaker 1: create a character, whether I'm still like a mugger, but
Speaker 1: I've got I've got more going on than people realize.
Speaker 1: I've got something else that's worth, something that people can't
Speaker 1: quite see.
Speaker 2: And that's the classic Joseph Campbell hero's journey, but told
Speaker 2: in the context of its time, with the language of
Speaker 2: its time. We will talk about language maybe a little later,
Speaker 2: or some of some of the perceptions that we would
Speaker 2: now find questionable, which were really really interesting because there
Speaker 2: it all was out in the open. That skill of
Speaker 2: working with what you've got. I think that again we
Speaker 2: talked about it before the sound of music, but that
Speaker 2: again is really interesting to me. So not only was
Speaker 2: Sylvester salone unable to find a break, had the clever
Speaker 2: realization as an artist that this is how I'm seeing
Speaker 2: so I'm going to work within that field. There's something
Speaker 2: else about Sylvester's face that I found out that I
Speaker 2: found really, really fascinating. I always thought he was affecting,
Speaker 2: trying to affect a look on his face, like James
Speaker 2: dean or. But the truth is I found out last
Speaker 2: night that when he was born, it was a traumatic berth.
Speaker 2: There was an obstetrician. The doctor had to use two
Speaker 2: pairs of forceps to get that kid, Sylvester out and
Speaker 2: in the course of that, one of the nerves in
Speaker 2: Sylvester's face was was seve it. The reason he looks
Speaker 2: and has the that look that we recognize him for
Speaker 2: is because he's partially paralyzed in the bottom of his face.
Speaker 2: He used again what that look said to the world
Speaker 2: and told a story within the context.
Speaker 4: Of who he was.
Speaker 2: I just I just love that. Yeah, things before that
Speaker 2: movie weren't going that well.
Speaker 1: For No, he did a movie called Death Race two thousand.
Speaker 1: He wasn't the lead, he was a smaller part, and
Speaker 1: executives were watching that and I think they're even watching
Speaker 1: the wrong person. Though there was a blonde had boken
Speaker 1: there and they said, hang on space to be attained.
Speaker 1: He's blonde, and they're like, oh, well, he'll make it work,
Speaker 1: and they actually almost cast the wrong the wrong I'm
Speaker 1: not sure how that happens, and that might that might
Speaker 1: be a bit a bullshit anyway. But there was another
Speaker 1: career he was he was going with. He had made
Speaker 1: some some adults films otherwise akaography.
Speaker 2: Soft porn. I haven't seen them myself, so I can't really,
Speaker 2: I can't say.
Speaker 3: Next week'spisode and you ain't seen nothing yet.
Speaker 2: But he spoke about that later, didn't he? Do you
Speaker 2: know anything about what it was revealed at the time
Speaker 2: or was it something he got secret that came up
Speaker 2: as a shame?
Speaker 1: I thought it came later. Funny enough, I haven't. I
Speaker 1: haven't gone down the rabbit hole of the flies a career.
Speaker 2: Fair enough, fair enough? What we know just from you know,
Speaker 2: it's a basic overview is yeah, he had to. He
Speaker 2: was desperate to pay the rent. He had no way
Speaker 2: of paying the rent. He was offered a role in
Speaker 2: a soft porn film before a couple of years before
Speaker 2: Rocky came out. It was either that or he mugged
Speaker 2: someone and sole the rent money, he said, So he
Speaker 2: chose the soft porn film. Now the fact that in
Speaker 2: those times, if a woman had done that, they wouldn't
Speaker 2: have been able to have a career. Even you know,
Speaker 2: in today's day and age, we know everything about everyone.
Speaker 2: But he would have thought to himself, I'll do this,
Speaker 2: no one will ever see it, I'll pay my rent,
Speaker 2: and I'll keep trying to sell my brilliant screenplay. He
Speaker 2: did what he had to do to make the art.
Speaker 2: I just got on him.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like I said, I haven't seen the film, not sure
Speaker 2: the quality of the work done there. But again, it's
Speaker 2: a story within a story. It's a story of someone
Speaker 2: who's constantly being given limited opportunity by the world and
Speaker 2: still is carrying this little secret idea of victory in
Speaker 2: his heart that maybe there's something more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and what this means is with this context, it
Speaker 1: makes Rocky. We think of Rockies. This boxing movie. Now,
Speaker 1: I would argue that it's not a boxing movie.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, maybe not. It did spawn the genre of
Speaker 2: what do we call it, sport drama?
Speaker 1: Sport drama?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not a boxing film. Is that wild?
Speaker 1: It's amazing, Like, there's so much non boxing going on
Speaker 1: in this But when we know the story that you
Speaker 1: so beautifully this line sly story. It's a much more
Speaker 1: personal film than I think people remember it or give
Speaker 1: it credit for being this really this is why because
Speaker 1: he knock me. Yeah, absolutely, and that's why he knocks back,
Speaker 1: you know, fifteen point when I think you did the
Speaker 1: calcination before cli million dollars, when he has just over
Speaker 1: one hundred bucks in the bank to play this role
Speaker 1: they wanted. The budget they offered was two million dollars,
Speaker 1: which at the time was a pretty decent budget. But
Speaker 1: it had to be played by James Kahn or Burt
Speaker 1: Reynolds or Ryan O'Neill. And so I said, no, it
Speaker 1: has to be me, and big, big call, good, great
Speaker 1: call for him, a great call on the producers, and
Speaker 1: so they slashed a budget in half. They had one
Speaker 1: million dollars to do it after that, and they did it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they did.
Speaker 3: And he, you know, the commitment was that he would
Speaker 3: play the part.
Speaker 2: It's so interesting our raw. I mean, I don't know
Speaker 2: if that added to the rawness of the settings, but
Speaker 2: a lot of it's filmed in darkened rooms. A lot
Speaker 2: of the lighting is natural. There's quite a few scenes
Speaker 2: that are at night or early in the morning, so
Speaker 2: they've used a lot of natural light in the way
Speaker 2: that they filmed it too, because of probably the stock
Speaker 2: that they use in those days. It looks beautiful. I
Speaker 2: watched it in filmaker mode on my TV, so there's
Speaker 2: that beautiful look too. But it's a capsule. It's a
Speaker 2: time capsule, you know, the language of the time, the
Speaker 2: obsessions of people in the time, and that idea of
Speaker 2: trying to make a name for yourself yet again was
Speaker 2: sort of played out by every single character. You know.
Speaker 2: It wasn't I don't know if we're at that stage yet,
Speaker 2: but it wasn't just him. It was his trainer, it
Speaker 2: was his best mate, it was his girlfriend. And it
Speaker 2: was also in the context of the times, you know,
Speaker 2: this moment in time where there was all this American
Speaker 2: pride around these discussions about what it is to be
Speaker 2: in this great land of America, the land of opportunity,
Speaker 2: you know. But because it was a fresh perspective, it
Speaker 2: wasn't written by I don't think by committee. It was
Speaker 2: written by a singular lens of singular original focus. This
Speaker 2: is one of the reasons it's so fascinating.
Speaker 1: And it's great. You mentioned the American Dream, which kind
Speaker 1: of rocky doesn't really think he's he's invited to the
Speaker 1: American Dream. Does he like he's just living this life?
Speaker 3: He doesn't. He's got so much self doubt, you know.
Speaker 1: And and it's only when you had the lawyers and
Speaker 1: the promoters and the polo come to him and kind
Speaker 1: of dangle the American Dream in front of him, even
Speaker 1: though they didn't think it's really like. There's a great
Speaker 1: line during the fight with a polo where his trainer says,
Speaker 1: you know, once Rocky knocks him out and gives him
Speaker 1: a bit of hope and all of a sudden, they've
Speaker 1: got to fight in their hands. And the trainer says
Speaker 1: to him, you know, you think this is a show.
Speaker 1: He thinks this is a fight. And I love that line.
Speaker 2: It's beautiful line. Yeah, it's always tempting to count ourselves
Speaker 2: out and ford to bitterness when things don't go right.
Speaker 2: I don't know about you, Pete. You've had a pretty
Speaker 2: successful career. You seem to work a bit, but there
Speaker 2: there are a lot of ups and down.
Speaker 1: I want more.
Speaker 2: A lot of ups and downs in life, you see.
Speaker 2: And Rocky had this key moment in it seems that
Speaker 2: the character had this key moment in his youth where
Speaker 2: he did have that touch of self belief and it
Speaker 2: wasn't matched by his coach at the time. He felt
Speaker 2: that he wasn't seen, he wasn't given opportunity, and he
Speaker 2: sort of settled, you know, he started working for I
Speaker 2: Hope we don't spoil it for you guys, Spoil Heavy podcast,
Speaker 2: Spoil Heavy. Then he took a job as a medium heavy,
Speaker 2: collecting debt for someone who may or man have worked
Speaker 2: in the mob. You know, he said, he settled that
Speaker 2: was the best he could do. He was making the
Speaker 2: best of the life that he could. He was taking
Speaker 2: small risks in the way that was safe enough for
Speaker 2: him to exist within the society he was in. But
Speaker 2: then there's this beautiful scene where he's offered the chance
Speaker 2: to fight Apollo and he says no, and someone reminds him.
Speaker 2: The promoter reminds him, you know, this is your time
Speaker 2: to shine. He says, yeah, okay, And then is it
Speaker 2: Vinny who is the coach? Micky? Excuse me. Micky's a
Speaker 2: seventy six year old man who has canceled Rocky's locker recently.
Speaker 2: He's just looked at him and said, mate, you made
Speaker 2: your choices. When you started working for the Heavy I
Speaker 2: don't believe in your work anymore. If you're not going
Speaker 2: to pick yourself and you have the potential for greatness,
Speaker 2: you're out of the band. You know, you don't get
Speaker 2: a locker at the gym anymore. But Micky then revises
Speaker 2: his own point of view. When this opportunity comes up,
Speaker 2: he has the vulnerability to knock on on a He's
Speaker 2: knocking on rocky door and he says, you know what
Speaker 2: you need. You need a manager, and I can do it.
Speaker 2: I'm seventy six, I've got so much to give, and
Speaker 2: Rocky says, get out, mate. He's bitter, he says, get out.
Speaker 1: But let's have you want to listen to that scene please,
Speaker 1: I've organized this scene. We'll listen to it in two parts.
Speaker 1: So this is Mickey offering his management skills through Rocky,
Speaker 1: who eventually goes into a room and locks him out.
Speaker 3: I want to be your manager.
Speaker 1: You follow that to you? FOD said, I don't need
Speaker 1: no me, but you can't lie what I'm going to
Speaker 1: give you.
Speaker 2: I mean I got pain and I got experienced.
Speaker 1: I got pain. I got experienced too.
Speaker 3: Listen, kid, here you go.
Speaker 5: He make what I need your help about ten years ago,
Speaker 5: right ten years ago, you never helped me.
Speaker 3: You didn't care.
Speaker 2: Well if you wanted help, I say, if you wanted help,
Speaker 2: why didn't you ask Why didn't you just ask me? King?
Speaker 1: Look, I asked, but you never heard nothing.
Speaker 5: Well, I uh, I'm seventy.
Speaker 4: Six years old.
Speaker 1: And Meredith burgesses Mikey, And there's so much we could
Speaker 1: play so much more of that. That scene, it's a
Speaker 1: beautiful moment earlier when he says, Mickey says something like
Speaker 1: you've got art, and he says, I may have heart,
Speaker 1: but I don't have my locker. And I think the
Speaker 1: locker is You could argue that that is the thing
Speaker 1: that actually is what we would you would call the
Speaker 1: inciting incident that because it's it's a strangely kind of
Speaker 1: formulated film in a way, it's kind of genius. But
Speaker 1: but that the locker scene, he gets his he gets
Speaker 1: they take his locker and he can't understand it, and
Speaker 1: then he and then what happens after that, It says
Speaker 1: he spied. It's the first time he gets really angry.
Speaker 1: He goes in the Mickey and that they have a
Speaker 1: screaming match, and then he tells he's still on the
Speaker 1: Adrien and the pestor and he can't quite get her
Speaker 1: attention or and she's kind of busy and he's talking
Speaker 1: about the locker, and then the street kid. He takes
Speaker 1: his street kid home, the young girl home, creeper, creeper,
Speaker 1: and she calls him a and he calls him a creeper,
Speaker 1: and then he says, how do you know what you're
Speaker 1: talking about? Creeper? And then he kind of mumbles a
Speaker 1: back to himself he had. So he's starting to believe
Speaker 1: his confidence has just been being and he's self worth
Speaker 1: has has been completely eroded. And then it's a whole
Speaker 1: you go. Paulie invites Himo Thanksgiving and he's still did
Speaker 1: you tell it? I'm coming? Did you tell her?
Speaker 3: Because he just can't.
Speaker 1: Believe that Adrian would actually be excited about him being there.
Speaker 1: And then when he kind of finally believes that this,
Speaker 1: you know, okay, I'm here for dinner, Paulie stuffed at
Speaker 1: the moment and throws the turkey out of the house
Speaker 1: in a very weird move. Weird and violent, moved, weird
Speaker 1: and very violent.
Speaker 2: Not a forgiveness for him has to be yes, and there's.
Speaker 1: A lot to talk about Paulie. There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 1: And then he kind of reluctantly in the end, kind
Speaker 1: of through the door, and he had you know, he's
Speaker 1: got these wonderful little lines. I never spoke to a
Speaker 1: door before. And then it's important though, I think that
Speaker 1: Adrian at this point opens the.
Speaker 3: Door and she's ready to go out with him.
Speaker 2: Spot on. He had to ask first. So and that's
Speaker 2: what Mickey is saying, and that's what life keeps saying
Speaker 2: to him, and that's what life keeps saying to us.
Speaker 2: You can count yourself out anytime, but your nexus of control,
Speaker 2: you know, the circumstances of your life you cannot control.
Speaker 2: But you can keep showing up. You can talk to
Speaker 2: a bloody door, feel like a full risk something. When
Speaker 2: Rocky Is changes his mind and does yell out after Mickey,
Speaker 2: wait wait, wait, you know, Okay, I admit I need help.
Speaker 2: I need a manager. So he's sort of making the
Speaker 2: best choices for the potential of possibility. But like all
Speaker 2: great acts of courage, it is courageous not because we're
Speaker 2: not scared, because we don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 2: He doesn't know if he's going to win. He doesn't
Speaker 2: know if it's worth. His leg's hurt, his knees hurt.
Speaker 2: Adrian won't talk to him. But what we find inspiring
Speaker 2: and why we still love this film is that he
Speaker 2: keeps showing up. He keeps showing up, and he keeps
Speaker 2: making that little tiny choice where he can.
Speaker 1: Let's have him. Listen to the second part of that scene.
Speaker 1: I did take us away from it, you be beautifully
Speaker 1: brought us back to it. Claire. This is Rocky yelling
Speaker 1: as Mickey has already left the apartment, so he's yelling
Speaker 1: down the stairs now. And this is all improvised by
Speaker 1: svisister line forget two years, are going to my house,
Speaker 1: my house, my house, stink. Try it sticks I have
Speaker 1: from you, don't fall around me, your pry.
Speaker 2: Brian Mack.
Speaker 1: At least you have pride.
Speaker 5: I know brid loot legs are going.
Speaker 1: Everything that's going, no one's getting them. Knock. This guy
Speaker 1: comes up on with me a fight. Do you want
Speaker 1: to fight the fight? Yeah, I'll fight the big fight.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to fight that big fight that was
Speaker 1: gonna have.
Speaker 2: I want to get that.
Speaker 1: I already get that. You want to be excited, see
Speaker 1: you are y are?
Speaker 2: How do you do it?
Speaker 4: Like late day working, nothing working?
Speaker 1: They got god bake the check ol batas.
Speaker 5: You come around here, you want to move in here
Speaker 5: and they come are my house, real life, come in
Speaker 5: and no steps.
Speaker 1: To play steps I mean Swiss sillone is. So it's
Speaker 1: such a beautiful, heartfelt, naturalistic moment, like that's an outburst,
Speaker 1: and he has a couple of outbursts, but it's it's juxtaposed.
Speaker 3: With these moments of tenderness throughout the whole film.
Speaker 2: The way he was speaking there. So were listening to
Speaker 2: it last night. I was watching it. Obviously, I had
Speaker 2: to put on the.
Speaker 3: Subtitles.
Speaker 2: Subtitles actually, and again, you know we can sort of
Speaker 2: laugh about it. We always did laugh about it. I
Speaker 2: prevebviously thought that that was a choice that Sylvestis alone
Speaker 2: was making. You know, I met, I became aware of
Speaker 2: him when I was a kid, and he was already
Speaker 2: by then. You know, his movies ran by Rocky, they
Speaker 2: were huge. He was a cliche. I discern him with
Speaker 2: some sort of lucky lucky dude. But he because of
Speaker 2: that injury in his youth, parts of his tongue and
Speaker 2: lip is paralyzed he has found a way to communicate
Speaker 2: that is feel you know, it was Philly. He's a
Speaker 2: Philly boy using language from the time that chunks. But
Speaker 2: when you hear him really talk, even if I didn't
Speaker 2: have the subtitles on, I know what he's saying, you know,
Speaker 2: I know the I know the spirit of what he's saying.
Speaker 2: And that emotional quality huge rare in an actor, rare
Speaker 2: to sustain over a lifetime. But again, the fact that
Speaker 2: it's all based in the originality of who he is
Speaker 2: and we're within the limitations that life gave him. I
Speaker 2: just find it bloody fascinating.
Speaker 1: And then he takes a moment which we don't even
Speaker 1: see on camera, and he just he you know, but
Speaker 1: you can imagine it playing out where he's got Okay,
Speaker 1: I do need a manager, and yeah, and Micky's good.
Speaker 3: He has come to me.
Speaker 2: At least I won't forward to bitterness.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He chooses, he chooses to fight, and
Speaker 1: he chooses literally Jesus to fight, and he goes to
Speaker 1: Mickey and it's it's shot long lens and it's beautiful.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: At the start of the film, he goes into the
Speaker 2: pet shop where Adrian works Adrian doesn't talk very much.
Speaker 2: Adrian is his love interests. But there's this one little
Speaker 2: image that stuck with me. In there, he's buying a
Speaker 2: turtle terrapin, you know, a domestic turtle. He's just buying
Speaker 2: whatever he can to have a chance to chat with
Speaker 2: with Adrian. And really, but in there, there's this huge
Speaker 2: dog in a very small cage within the pet shop,
Speaker 2: and I keep thinking about this image that you know,
Speaker 2: that was him, this huge dog in a small cage,
Speaker 2: and this is him realizing he wants more freedom, he
Speaker 2: wants more choice. He you know, the cage is comfortable,
Speaker 2: but he needs a way out. Throughout the watching of
Speaker 2: this film, my husband kept saying the words Adrian, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, what are you doing? Why do you say that?
Speaker 2: What do you say? Are you giving me a clue?
Speaker 2: What are you saying? And I couldn't work out why
Speaker 2: he kept saying that, and I wanted him to shush
Speaker 2: because I wanted to make up my own idea about
Speaker 2: the film and so on. But anyway, we'll get to
Speaker 2: that later. But there are a couple of times where
Speaker 2: he's admitting he needs Adrian and he needs love and
Speaker 2: he needs tenderness. That she's been denied by her life
Speaker 2: as well. That's beautifully paid.
Speaker 1: Well, it's about two people actually seeing each other, you know,
Speaker 1: like Adrian feels invisible and worthless, and we know that
Speaker 1: we can understand me through Paul's relationship. And you know
Speaker 1: how volatiley he is the brother guys, you know that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, who was In the original script, it was
Speaker 1: supposed to be Adrian was Jewish, and that was going
Speaker 1: to be a Jewish mother, like an overbearing Jewish mother,
Speaker 1: and then they for whatever reason, they changed it to
Speaker 1: her brother, an overpowering I see brother. Funnily enough as
Speaker 1: the sequels go on with that, and they said, too
Speaker 1: much becomes more of almost a comical must soften a character.
Speaker 1: But I think it's about two people being seen, Like
Speaker 1: Rocky feels worthless, feels like a bomb them in the
Speaker 1: mint of times, you have.
Speaker 2: A bum stink creeper, you know all those like screw you,
Speaker 2: I'm a bomb, Like, yeah, just the language of the time,
Speaker 2: so beautiful. We've got to bring those things back.
Speaker 1: And the only thing he's got to talk about really
Speaker 1: is boxing. And there's a beautiful scene they go on
Speaker 1: this date it was supposed to be shot at a restaurant,
Speaker 1: but they couldn't afford extras, so they can have the
Speaker 1: idea of doing it. How about we do it at
Speaker 1: someplace where it's it's it's empty and closed.
Speaker 3: Ice hrink.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's have a listen to that. You know, I
Speaker 1: got started fighting. Huh? No, am I talking too loud?
Speaker 1: Three minutes? My father, he's a oh man, it was
Speaker 1: never too smart. He says to me.
Speaker 2: You weren't born much of a brain, you know, so, uh,
Speaker 2: you better start using your body right, so I've become
Speaker 2: a fighter, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: While you why you left?
Speaker 2: My mother? She said the opposite thing.
Speaker 4: What she said?
Speaker 1: What you said the opposite? So you weren't born much
Speaker 1: of your body, so you better develop.
Speaker 2: Your brain, so she said. You time, I asked you
Speaker 2: a question?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, why do you want to fight? Because I can't
Speaker 1: sting a dance? You? Hey, that was dura thing.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty good at this.
Speaker 1: He's very sweet.
Speaker 2: It's super sweet. I can't see her dance. I love
Speaker 2: that all those beautiful classics have playfulness.
Speaker 3: That he has.
Speaker 2: What we hear is like his battle with his own
Speaker 2: inner critic and his own idea of an inner champion. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and hers too, and how when they see each other
Speaker 2: things shift for them. They're able to see each other
Speaker 2: through each other's eyes, but it took uts on both
Speaker 2: of their behalf. I can't imagine how that would have
Speaker 2: how that the play would have been without that love
Speaker 2: interest element.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well they probably would have had to lean
Speaker 1: into more boxing, I would imagine and make it this
Speaker 1: more of a boxing movie than it actually actually is.
Speaker 1: When I was watching it last night, and I always
Speaker 1: think about the person watching the film, I thought, I
Speaker 1: really hope you were really enjoy it, but I didn't think.
Speaker 2: I was quite surprised. I really did love it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And the more I watched it and the more
Speaker 1: I thought about, I thought, I think you're going to
Speaker 1: relate to rock. You know that you you've written your
Speaker 1: beautiful memoir, your Own kind of Girl, which I mentioned
Speaker 1: at the start, like I followed your career, you know
Speaker 1: when you know, since Divorce by twenty three came out
Speaker 1: a long time ago, a long time ago, and I
Speaker 1: continue to follow. And I went for new music. Clearly
Speaker 1: we'll get to that. And you just assume people come
Speaker 1: out fully formed and you know, ready for the bright lights,
Speaker 1: and that with all the abilities and experience in the world.
Speaker 1: But it takes, and you did it so beautiful in
Speaker 1: your book to talk about the anxiety and how the
Speaker 1: courage it takes to kind of make, you know, the
Speaker 1: get to a stage and to stand on stage. So
Speaker 1: when I I was thinking about that as I was
Speaker 1: watching Rocky last night, I thought, I think you might
Speaker 1: connect with this character.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't. I think in a way, the reason
Speaker 2: we all do is because we all have these limitations,
Speaker 2: you know, these things that happened to us and our
Speaker 2: role in life. You know, we're lucky, We're eighty six
Speaker 2: billion yeurons who somehow got to live life. But we
Speaker 2: are wired for survival. And survival is you know, it's
Speaker 2: right there and the most basic rung of Maslow's the
Speaker 2: hierarchy of needs, and life keeps throwing all this stuff
Speaker 2: at us, and to choose survival is wise. It's what
Speaker 2: we all do. But we long for more as well.
Speaker 2: So life and our brains are constantly telling us to
Speaker 2: place more, and yet there's this other part of us
Speaker 2: that's telling us to make courageous choices. We all are
Speaker 2: fighting with those two forces and trying to find our
Speaker 2: best way in. For me, writing a book talking about
Speaker 2: the most difficult things that have happened in my life
Speaker 2: and trying to bring the light out from them and
Speaker 2: work out why, you know, why I had the brain
Speaker 2: that I had and why I felt the ways that
Speaker 2: I did to work out what to do with those things.
Speaker 2: That's why I have the privilege of being a creative person.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 2: If I could have done things differently, I might have.
Speaker 2: If Rocky could have had a different kind of job,
Speaker 2: he might have too. But we all see a little
Speaker 2: bit of that current. We all have to call in
Speaker 2: that courage right throughout our lives. That's a creative process.
Speaker 2: That's why I always say everyone's creative because we're all
Speaker 2: working within limitations and we're finding the best way to
Speaker 2: mush them together and make stuff that's interesting and meaningful
Speaker 2: and playfully comic and allows us to connect. So loved
Speaker 2: I loved that. I love that that story became has
Speaker 2: become a part of our popular culture now. Like I said,
Speaker 2: I was always laughing about the music, and sometimes we'd
Speaker 2: play Rocky. We play Rocky in the Rocky theme songs,
Speaker 2: and I have the target from Rocky to in the
Speaker 2: back room before a show, to pep Us up, you know,
Speaker 2: But now I said, of no, right, So it's based
Speaker 2: in something that was significant, you know. It was a
Speaker 2: significant story told in a simple context, with limitations and
Speaker 2: done masterfully. I would say, if you're a vegan, you
Speaker 2: might want to be a little bit aware of you
Speaker 2: might feel sensitive while watching this move. I just want
Speaker 2: to give that heads up. Why am I saying that?
Speaker 2: Why am I saying that?
Speaker 1: Pete tell me, well, there's a lot of meat.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of meat. That's right now, there's the
Speaker 2: throwing of the turkey. What a waste. You know, we've
Speaker 2: spoken about that. But again, working with what you've got
Speaker 2: in the spirit of frugality, which is something that we
Speaker 2: were all frigging force through in the last Maybe that's
Speaker 2: part of it too. We've gone through here in this
Speaker 2: state of victory, six very limiting, weird lockdowns in the
Speaker 2: past two years, and we've learnt, you know, we laugh
Speaker 2: about why sour dough became so important to us. Again,
Speaker 2: it was within our nexcess of control. We could do
Speaker 2: something we could explore with sour dough. Rocky doesn't have
Speaker 2: access to the kind of gym that Sylvester sallone, now,
Speaker 2: does you know or Chris Hemsworth might, so what's he doing, Pete?
Speaker 2: What does he do?
Speaker 1: Well? He gets access to a butcher's and just pounds
Speaker 1: pounds downs very dead cows.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. He hall his mate poorly. It's horn meat,
Speaker 2: and he practices cracking ribs on these animals who've already passed,
Speaker 2: so that could be. It was confronting for Rocky at
Speaker 2: first himself, what's with all this new? Who killed these animals?
Speaker 2: And then he goes, okay, right, so they're already gone.
Speaker 2: How can I use this?
Speaker 1: It's all running and it's it's I mean, and I
Speaker 1: loved last night knowing where it goes in the future movies.
Speaker 3: Like the first montage was him like having the you know,
Speaker 3: the yolk eggs and and.
Speaker 2: That's where that came from.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and then and then like going out and
Speaker 1: his first run and he's almost like he looks sore
Speaker 1: already when he's crawling down the stairs. And the music
Speaker 1: they played during that.
Speaker 3: Is so good.
Speaker 1: That it's more like a slower version because it's the
Speaker 1: first one. It's like it's like really like a tired
Speaker 1: version of what we're going to hear later on.
Speaker 2: There're all refrains of the same kind of motifs and
Speaker 2: idioms but done with different lyric sometimes like that that
Speaker 2: same song was played at the beginning with as a
Speaker 2: song on the radio with a romantic scene. Again, this
Speaker 2: might have been within the limitations of their budget. Yes,
Speaker 2: they just would just reuse the same film.
Speaker 1: And they were just running around shooting gorilla style, like
Speaker 1: when the guy throws an orange at Rocky that he
Speaker 1: had no idea what was going He saw it as
Speaker 1: a camera and that was just like, that wasn't a plan.
Speaker 1: There's no thing in the script that says man throws
Speaker 1: orange at Rocky Bilboa and Rocky catches it. They were
Speaker 1: just driving around, going, let's shoot something here, let's shoot
Speaker 1: something here. Is I don't think only the third movie
Speaker 1: in the world that you steady cam really yeah, which
Speaker 1: is for those at home, it's when you see often
Speaker 1: using when there's a lot of movement. Aaron Sorkin famously
Speaker 1: uses a lot of steady cam with those walking shots.
Speaker 1: It's a lovely they use it when he goes up
Speaker 1: the stairs at the I think it's a state library.
Speaker 1: And for the running shots they use a lot of
Speaker 1: steady camm.
Speaker 2: I reckon It's probably one of the first movies I've
Speaker 2: ever mentioned the word prostrate as well prostate. Do you
Speaker 2: remember that when I said prostrate, And I'm going to
Speaker 2: say it's not correct because it's prostate. So you remember
Speaker 2: when Buddy's in bad mood. Buddy was the driver of
Speaker 2: the big shot you know who he was, the heavy
Speaker 2: who was working for. And again we're realizing, like, this
Speaker 2: is a tough environment, this is a tough world. Not
Speaker 2: everyone's going to like you. Buddy's decided that he likes
Speaker 2: he does not like Rocky r. He hates Rocky. He
Speaker 2: gives him a hard time all the time. There are
Speaker 2: all these challenges Rockies responding to, and it's like, Buddy's
Speaker 2: in a bad mood. It's his prostrate. It's prostrate prostrate, prostate.
Speaker 2: Buddies in bad moods is prostate. I was like, wow,
Speaker 2: you know again, the rawness. Someone would have probably written that,
Speaker 2: maybe written that out of the script if it had
Speaker 2: been in a writer's room for years and years, which
Speaker 2: I don't think it was. But there's a rawness too.
Speaker 2: There's you know, fluff on the camera, there's filth on
Speaker 2: the floor the apartment. Nothing's perfect in this world. And
Speaker 2: that's why I think again, we respond to it because
Speaker 2: it mirrors the real world, which is not everyone's going
Speaker 2: to like us, and we've got to choose his opinion
Speaker 2: we're going to believe in.
Speaker 1: And also, what's good about that driver or the driver
Speaker 1: of the loan shark. Not even the loan shark. He's
Speaker 1: quite nice to it.
Speaker 2: It's quite nice. He keeps giving him five fifty.
Speaker 1: Bucks five bucks. Yeah, he's got support him, but it's
Speaker 1: it's the driver that's giving Rocky shit like that. That's
Speaker 1: how rock bottom they want to and that's the reason
Speaker 1: they want to make him rock bottom. Even when the
Speaker 1: loan Shark is saying, well, you've got to break his
Speaker 1: thumb next time, break his thumb, which is a lovely Again,
Speaker 1: he's because Rocky is not trying. We want our characters
Speaker 1: to be good, have a sense of decency and goodness,
Speaker 1: and then we want to see him try. And Rocky
Speaker 1: takes a while before he believes enough of himself to try,
Speaker 1: so we need to see him be good. And he
Speaker 1: doesn't break the thumb. So there's all these little things,
Speaker 1: and he's just generally kind to everyone. But even when
Speaker 1: the loan Shark is and you need to break his thumb.
Speaker 1: He's got an asthma pump. It's just a lovely this guy.
Speaker 1: The guy is one day going to be the heavyweight
Speaker 1: champion of the world. We don't know that yet, but
Speaker 1: like the guy he's telling him off with the masthma part,
Speaker 1: it's just a lovely little touch.
Speaker 2: You know what else I really love is probably worth
Speaker 2: a much bigger conversation. But again, the fact that Apollo
Speaker 2: is a man of color, that the champion as portrayed,
Speaker 2: you know, the dominant champion in the world is a
Speaker 2: person of color with power and choice. It's good to
Speaker 2: have an historical movie in which there are people of
Speaker 2: different ethnicities, people of different skin colors, different genders, playing
Speaker 2: power roles in different ways as well. Now how that
Speaker 2: plays itself out over the course of Rocky or you know,
Speaker 2: the final victory or so on, is also worthy of conversation.
Speaker 2: But I enjoyed that because it showed again a reflection
Speaker 2: of real life as opposed to so many of the
Speaker 2: stories that we saw a victory, which ever included a
Speaker 2: story of the victory of people who were different, you know,
Speaker 2: people with a like Rocky himself being different, but also
Speaker 2: people who came from different backgrounds. People who it came
Speaker 2: from had different skin colors, people who had different ways
Speaker 2: of thinking and so on. So that is another reason
Speaker 2: why this is interesting. And we didn't often see intelligence
Speaker 2: matched with boxing as well. I didn't even know, for example,
Speaker 2: but I learned from this film that there's a word pulism.
Speaker 2: Do you know what pugilism is? So it means the
Speaker 2: professional hobby of boxing. It's a great word. Never heard
Speaker 2: of it. I thought it meant something completely different. Learned
Speaker 2: a lot from this film.
Speaker 3: People learned a lot. And there's not a Polo played
Speaker 3: beautify by Carl Weathers.
Speaker 2: Incredibly complex and beautiful role.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's beautifully written and realized because he is
Speaker 1: a mirror image of Rocky. Now that goes beyond color.
Speaker 1: It's that he is articulate and Rocky is a mumbler,
Speaker 1: you know. It's that he's cocky and Rocky is rapped
Speaker 1: through self doubt. He's technically proficient in the ring, where
Speaker 1: Rocky is more of a brawler. He's a businessman. Rocky
Speaker 1: does not have a cent to his name.
Speaker 2: Get a leather briefcase. Kids don't get into sport, says Apolo.
Speaker 2: Don't get into white stinks, don't be a stinker.
Speaker 1: Got a leather breowcase and he's a businessman. I liked it. Also,
Speaker 1: there wasn't strings possibility. It's a it's a Polo's idea
Speaker 1: to you know, fight Rocky or to find this this
Speaker 1: challenger is this one shot the American dream.
Speaker 5: Without a rand contender. What this fighter is going to
Speaker 5: need is a novelty. This is the land of opportunity rate.
Speaker 5: So Apollo Creed on January first, gives a local underdog
Speaker 5: fighter an opportunity, a snow white underdog, and I'm going
Speaker 5: to put his face on his poster with me, and
Speaker 5: I'll tell you why, Because I'm sentimental, and a lot
Speaker 5: of other people in this country are justice sentimental, and
Speaker 5: there's nothing they'd like better than the Apollo Creed give
Speaker 5: a local Philadelphia boy, I shot at the greatest title
Speaker 5: in the world on this country's biggest birthday. Now that's
Speaker 5: the way I see it, and that's the way it's
Speaker 5: gonna be.
Speaker 4: Polo.
Speaker 3: I like it.
Speaker 4: It's very American, no Jergins, It's very smart.
Speaker 2: Some more coffee, mister.
Speaker 5: Creed, What do you think about Billy snow How about
Speaker 5: the big Chuck Smith's too old and dull.
Speaker 2: And then when we get Paolo who gives him this
Speaker 2: chance at the American Dream, that's really interesting too.
Speaker 1: I love saying him is the businessman. And then he's
Speaker 1: he comes out of George Washington and it's like and
Speaker 1: then and Rocky comes out and he's got shamrock meets that.
Speaker 1: You know, Paulie's going to force this. You know that
Speaker 1: Pauli's making more money out of it than Rocky.
Speaker 2: You can make money out of my name, you do it?
Speaker 2: You go ahead, Paoli, Yeah, you know, generosity.
Speaker 1: And they realize apparently that that's that little money. They
Speaker 1: realized that they had the wrong shorts to match the poster,
Speaker 1: and then so so they wrote something just the handle
Speaker 1: of that little moment where he says, you got the
Speaker 1: wrong shorts and my shorts.
Speaker 2: So this is Rocky going into the arena the night
Speaker 2: before to have a look, you know I seeing I texted,
Speaker 2: actually made of money? Who works at the ABC? If
Speaker 2: you walk into the ABC officers in any city, there
Speaker 2: are these huge posters of the presenters. And I wrote
Speaker 2: to my mate Zen last night, I said, when you
Speaker 2: walk into the ABC's how you feel you walk, you
Speaker 2: know you walking. He's a huge post of yourself. But Rocky,
Speaker 2: yet again, is choosing truth. He walks into the arena
Speaker 2: and I didn't know about that fact. He walks into
Speaker 2: the arena, empty arena the night before. He looks up
Speaker 2: at the poster and instead of going, Wow, there's me
Speaker 2: on a poster, he goes, the shots are wrong. You know,
Speaker 2: he's saying he's not falling for the story of it.
Speaker 2: He knows the risk. He wants things to be right.
Speaker 1: And the promoter, the promoter basically says it doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, which again reminds the audience and reminds Rocky
Speaker 1: that he's no chance. Yeah. And then also the robe
Speaker 1: was too big for him. It was all big and
Speaker 1: gold yeah, which which was apparently a mistake. And then
Speaker 1: so they wrote that the little conversations he has with
Speaker 1: agent just before he goes out is so lovely, like
Speaker 1: the fact that he almost seems a bit maybe you'd
Speaker 1: be worried that he's unfocused. You know, if you were
Speaker 1: his coach or manager, he be going, come on, focus
Speaker 1: on the ring. Agent probably shouldn't be here, get it,
Speaker 1: you know, like just focus.
Speaker 3: But he is.
Speaker 1: Always charming Throughout this, he keeps.
Speaker 2: Saying to it, doesn't he he keeps saying, don't leave town,
Speaker 2: don't leave town. I'm sorry about my terrible accent. I
Speaker 2: keep coming in, going into it unconsciously. I don't I
Speaker 2: don't mean to be doing that. But he's saying to her,
Speaker 2: you know, is it too baggy? And he keeps saying
Speaker 2: to it, you're looking great today. He's doing the opposite
Speaker 2: of what Apollo's doing, which is, you know, focusing, breathing
Speaker 2: deep and so on. The stakes are so high that
Speaker 2: he actually can't engage that. He's been playful, and he's
Speaker 2: keeping that playfulness and that openness to possibility, and I
Speaker 2: think it's delightful. He's not willing to acknowledge how much
Speaker 2: is writing on it consciously, but he knows within himself.
Speaker 1: There is that beautiful moment, though, when Apollo brings him
Speaker 1: into the press conference and he's watching with Adrian, and
Speaker 1: Apollo is going to make a few jobs and you
Speaker 1: have nothing too over the top, but you know enough
Speaker 1: that he's making fun, a little bit of making light
Speaker 1: of Rocky and Rocky you know, he says, it doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. And then when he leaves. He actually says,
Speaker 1: you know what Apollo said, it did bother me. And
Speaker 1: that's that's almost a first little thing of oh, hang on,
Speaker 1: there's maybe more fighting than we think.
Speaker 2: To thine self be true. I love the energy that
Speaker 2: he gets and that we see him get, and it
Speaker 2: was there right from the beginning in that very first fight. God,
Speaker 2: you know that very first fight. I can't remember the
Speaker 2: contender was a Spider or something. Spider, that's right. So
Speaker 2: it opens, you know, the movie opens with this picture
Speaker 2: of Jesus and from there were to the ring, you know,
Speaker 2: the ultimate fight, and then he beats Spider, smokes a ciggy,
Speaker 2: Spider has a beer there in the back room. The
Speaker 2: reason he beat Spiders because Spider challenged him at a
Speaker 2: certain point, or you know, there was some energy that
Speaker 2: he gets every time someone doesn't believe in him. I
Speaker 2: love the way he uses that, and that's used right
Speaker 2: throughout until this point at the end, which we were
Speaker 2: just talking about.
Speaker 3: Let's hut about the end.
Speaker 1: Did you did you expect You've probably been groomed now
Speaker 1: to expect the protagonists to win at the end.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, a lot of people had won already throughout
Speaker 2: the film, so you know, you've got Adrian there with
Speaker 2: a text of her time being told by her brother
Speaker 2: that she's broken because you know she's not a virgin
Speaker 2: and she's one. She's chosen victory and moved out in
Speaker 2: the meantime.
Speaker 1: It is a great scene. Talia Shai, great performance and
Speaker 1: just takes it. I do love that stallone well as
Speaker 1: a writer, and Rockie as the character allows her to
Speaker 1: have that victory, like does not try to like she's
Speaker 1: He recognizes that she's in control of this now and
Speaker 1: this is her fight.
Speaker 3: I'm here, but you take it up to him.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think that's really good until he.
Speaker 1: Goes too far when she's left the room, and he
Speaker 1: goes too far, and he just goes over and says, enough.
Speaker 2: Enough now.
Speaker 4: It's cool.
Speaker 1: That's so poorly.
Speaker 2: I don't want you missing Hull, and I don't raise
Speaker 2: you to go with this scumbu. Yeah, come on, hit me,
Speaker 2: come on.
Speaker 4: I'll break both arms so they don't work for you.
Speaker 4: I'm not good enough to meet with Kaso.
Speaker 1: True, that's like to a Kaso now you're a big
Speaker 1: shot fighter on the way up.
Speaker 4: You don't even draw a clumpty of friend.
Speaker 5: Paulie when I gonna get your meet every morning.
Speaker 2: You forgot that night. I even give you white sister, dude,
Speaker 2: I'm a pink.
Speaker 1: A pink gets you the best.
Speaker 3: Lost.
Speaker 2: I don't get married because of you. You can't look
Speaker 2: by your arm.
Speaker 1: I put your do to get on.
Speaker 4: You can't you all me?
Speaker 2: You owe me.
Speaker 4: You're supposed to be good to me?
Speaker 1: Who are fine?
Speaker 2: Hell?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean just good? I feel idea, don't glad.
Speaker 1: I didn't care you poie, I don't know you know that,
Speaker 1: and you made me feel like a loader.
Speaker 2: You're busted?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 2: Just OK. There's quite a few opportunities for victory and
Speaker 2: quite a few victories throughout it, and there's also poorly
Speaker 2: you know, we don't get a clean victory for him
Speaker 2: because he's a broken character, but he keeps getting included
Speaker 2: even though he's broken, and he eventually, you know, makes
Speaker 2: him cash gets a different job. So there are all
Speaker 2: those victories along the way. Did I expect Rocky to win? Yes,
Speaker 2: except for the fact that I knew that there were
Speaker 2: all these other movies that came afterwards, and I wondered,
Speaker 2: how can you end it? I was press paused at
Speaker 2: about five minutes before the end, and I went, I wonder,
Speaker 2: what's going to happen here. Normally we're indoctrinated to have
Speaker 2: more of a round up at the end or so,
Speaker 2: and so I liked I actually really enjoyed how one.
Speaker 2: And I think it was right too, that you know Apollo.
Speaker 2: In that context, Rocky got his nose broken for the
Speaker 2: first time, Apollo got sort of the life in, he
Speaker 2: got terrified of losing for the first time. Neither of
Speaker 2: them wanted to rematch. I'm left curious what happens now.
Speaker 1: Well, what happens now is you need to go and
Speaker 1: watch every other version. Do you take on the challenge
Speaker 1: and the invitation to watch Rocky too, and then one
Speaker 1: day come back to.
Speaker 2: Us I do. I'm a bit scared, though, Pete, because
Speaker 2: I've really you know, it's hell't We've gone pretty deep,
Speaker 2: Like we didn't have many laughs during this year, and
Speaker 2: I and I realized that, you know, but I think
Speaker 2: with the amount of coffee I've drunk this morning, the
Speaker 2: lack of sleep that we both had, and the effect
Speaker 2: that this movie had on us, it's been quite somber.
Speaker 2: I've enjoyed it. If if I go and watch the
Speaker 2: next Rockies are their highs? And lows yes, and.
Speaker 1: I think they get Listen, Rocky is the best of
Speaker 1: the lot of them.
Speaker 2: Okay number one?
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, so and then and then two. They're very
Speaker 1: good and they get they get. There's there's some you know,
Speaker 1: decreasing value as it goes along, but it's certainly the
Speaker 1: Apollo and the Rocky story continues into In fact, it
Speaker 1: kind of takes place pretty almost there's not much space
Speaker 1: between this movie and what happens. It almost flows straight
Speaker 1: on right for memory. Watched it for a while, but
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's certainly watching you watch two.
Speaker 2: All right, all right, I'll tell you what. My life
Speaker 2: is definitely richer. For one. You know, I've got I've
Speaker 2: got new sayings in my heart, like you know, like
Speaker 2: colon people a coconut or a yo yo. I mean
Speaker 2: they've fallen from public culture. It's also, of course, you know,
Speaker 2: mix saying things like you're going to crap done. You know,
Speaker 2: I've got all these wonderful sayings in my head. I'm
Speaker 2: newly inspired as a person. And it did make sense
Speaker 2: at the end, of course, when Rocky is yelling Adrian
Speaker 2: and I looked at MARNI, when is that what you
Speaker 2: were talking about. He goes, right, good on you for
Speaker 2: spoiling it for me.
Speaker 1: Thank you telling me the last scene of the film.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much that even that moment Taralia shi Adrian,
Speaker 1: like when Rocky says to her, you Adrian at the
Speaker 1: press cont she's a little bit embarrassed by it. What
Speaker 1: did you think of that? She goes, why did you
Speaker 1: do that? I'm not sure about that? And then she
Speaker 1: finds the carriage. She ever comes to a shyness to
Speaker 1: run into a boxing ring is kind of incredible.
Speaker 2: Rocky's let's recreate it. I'll be I'll be Rocky and
Speaker 2: uba a Rocky.
Speaker 1: Rocky amazing, amazing.
Speaker 3: Well I got shivers.
Speaker 1: So really, if there's a Rocky nine or Apollo three,
Speaker 1: because that's what happens down the track is that the
Speaker 1: recent reboots have been about a polo, which is a
Speaker 1: polo's son. What's the best frisingly good?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Good, okay, yeah, maybe I'll go, I mean, do I go?
Speaker 1: I think it one by one the next step as
Speaker 1: we go along.
Speaker 2: What I've learned from this is just a reminder of
Speaker 2: all the things that seemed to matter. Originality and courage,
Speaker 2: when combined, can create great work. We must have the
Speaker 2: courage to keep counting ourselves in when nobody else sees us.
Speaker 2: That requires a commitment on our own behalf to do
Speaker 2: the difficult work of not knowing how the outcome is
Speaker 2: going to be. But we've got to keep showing up.
Speaker 2: Love's worth fighting for. The meat that you're eating may
Speaker 2: have been punched by someone. It was an original training
Speaker 2: method that he voked, which is now normal. But I
Speaker 2: think I found myself quite inspired by the whole thing.
Speaker 2: And I'm really really glad that you made me watch it. Mate.
Speaker 1: Well that is a beautiful sentiment in summation, and thank you.
Speaker 1: Clear vote please before we quickly go any new anytime soon? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I got.
Speaker 2: So much new stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what can you tell? What can you tell us?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 1: It should be out literally very slightly in a week
Speaker 1: or so.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you're not going to get the music by then.
Speaker 1: Beat, I'll tell you that much better throw to a track.
Speaker 2: What I do want to tell you is that I
Speaker 2: am out there doing the jog in the morning, punching
Speaker 2: the meat and climbing up and down those stairs, and
Speaker 2: I'm wearing loose tracksuits and I'm yelling Adrian all the time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I got some new stuff, and I tell you what,
Speaker 2: you'll be the first to know, I promise. But thank
Speaker 2: you for the encouragement and saying that you actually care
Speaker 2: and want to hear new stuff. That means a lot
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 1: I completely and I said in the intro that all
Speaker 1: your albums are incredible, but modern day addiction in particular
Speaker 1: is in my top five and I go back to
Speaker 1: it so often as I do. What was left and
Speaker 1: the window I chose happiness. But thanks, we just need
Speaker 1: some new clear votus music.
Speaker 2: I'm going to bring it to you. I promise, I promise.
Speaker 2: I just need a Is there a Mickey out there
Speaker 2: who would like to?
Speaker 1: There was seventy eight year old give.
Speaker 2: Me seventy six six.
Speaker 1: Sorry Mickey, love a bit of wisdom.
Speaker 2: Good love you, lots, hie everyone. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Well, that was a fun way to finish this season.
Speaker 1: Oh you ain't seen nothing yet. I'm so glad Claire
Speaker 1: loved Rocky and not only just loved it, but it
Speaker 1: had so much to offer and to reflect on, so articulate,
Speaker 1: so thoughtful. I really really loved that chat about the
Speaker 1: film that I hadn't seen for a little while. I've
Speaker 1: seen it in my adult life, but not for a
Speaker 1: few years. So it was great watching it last night
Speaker 1: knowing that I was going to be chatting to Claire
Speaker 1: about it. So thank you so much Claire again for
Speaker 1: doing that. This podcast comes with homework. It also comes
Speaker 1: with you know, production, and the man behind that is
Speaker 1: Derek Meyer some castaway studios, Gido, Derek, good mate. It's
Speaker 1: our final ride before we rude out to the sunset,
Speaker 1: before we take a little break before we come back
Speaker 1: with season five. Can you believe it?
Speaker 4: It's hard to believe four seasons is now. That's epic.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. I mean the exciting thing about season five
Speaker 1: is it's going to have our one hundredth episode in it,
Speaker 1: So we'll see if we can come up with something special,
Speaker 1: maybe a live event.
Speaker 4: Can we have a banner?
Speaker 1: Definitely a banner. We're gonna run to a banner. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're both going to run it. I'm not sure he's
Speaker 1: gonna hold it. That's the only thing. Somebody two guests
Speaker 1: to hold the banner. Hey, let's talk about Rocky before
Speaker 1: we head off. You'd be a Rocky fan, wouldn't you. Yeah?
Speaker 4: Definitely, Yeah, most Definitely.
Speaker 1: It wasn't the most convincing, but I feel there's a
Speaker 1: caveat coming a bit of.
Speaker 4: A Rocky two.
Speaker 1: Okay, Rocky two, three and four. Wow, that's interesting because
Speaker 1: it's out a clear I was going to watch Rocky two,
Speaker 1: so we'll take it one by one. I won't commit
Speaker 1: you to watching you know, all of them, but I said,
Speaker 1: I said, listen, Rocky is probably the best of them.
Speaker 1: But with that said, they do become more soap oper
Speaker 1: operatic as they go along. But Rocky, too, I think
Speaker 1: is very good. And I remember as a kid loving
Speaker 1: Rocky three and loving Rocky four. I just got a
Speaker 1: feeling when I go back and watch them as an adult,
Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna enjoy Rocky as a movie. Definitely, definitely
Speaker 1: more than that. It's more clarify, it gets more more
Speaker 1: popcorns involved as we go along.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I definitely Rocky is a way better movie than
Speaker 4: the rest. Yeah, But to me, that was my era,
Speaker 4: and it was just like they were coming out while I.
Speaker 1: Was, yeah a young man, and of course Club of Land.
Speaker 4: And it was topical two with the whole jargo.
Speaker 3: Yeah, very typical.
Speaker 1: Now open that can of words, Hey, a few little
Speaker 1: facts that I've got to get to. Claire mentioned earlier
Speaker 1: in the podcast that there was some conjecture about where
Speaker 1: the story came from. It certainly obviously did come from
Speaker 1: slice the loan's own experiences and his own thoughts as
Speaker 1: far as where his acting was and the way he
Speaker 1: was feeling that an event inspired it was a guy
Speaker 1: called Chuck Wetner who was like a middleweight kind of
Speaker 1: out of the boxer who was, you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure how to describe it, like a solid boxer, average boxer.
Speaker 1: But he got the chance to fight Muhammad Ali and
Speaker 1: he knocked Ali down once and he didn't win, but
Speaker 1: he knocked him down so that you could kind of
Speaker 1: see that, imagine that inspiring Sevestillone to write the way
Speaker 1: he did and the climact in particular. Funnily enough, Chuck
Speaker 1: Witner then goes on the fight, has it like an
Speaker 1: exhibition fight against Andre the Giant, which you know what
Speaker 1: happens in Rockie three. PAULK. Cogan, Yes, hold thunderlips, and
Speaker 1: they actually Chuck Wender did sue. He did a suit
Speaker 1: stallone a couple of times. Eventually they privately settled in
Speaker 1: two thousand and three, we mentioned if you don't Stallone
Speaker 1: knocking back a pretty big offer to sell the rights
Speaker 1: to United Artists. He refused, he wanted to be in
Speaker 1: the film. The right call was made. Also, the good
Speaker 1: news is he wasn't. He was paid twenty thousand for
Speaker 1: the script and a sag that's a screen act. This
Speaker 1: good minimum of three hundred and fifty dollars per week
Speaker 1: to make the movie. But he did have some back
Speaker 1: end on it, and I think he ended up making
Speaker 1: a round about twenty two million from the film, so
Speaker 1: pretty pretty cool. Some choices to play Adrian were also
Speaker 1: Susan Sarandon, a Cher, and Bett Midler was offered the role,
Speaker 1: she said no. Stallone wins Oscars for Best Screenplay, was
Speaker 1: nominated for writing the screenplay and acting, and up until
Speaker 1: a few years ago, the only other two people who
Speaker 1: had done that, I believe was Charlie Chaplin and Awson Wells.
Speaker 1: Not bad company to be in. I haven't gone back
Speaker 1: and looked at who's won since, but I know Bradley
Speaker 1: Cooper comes to mind with the Star is Born as
Speaker 1: far as writing and acting and being nominated. So in
Speaker 1: one final fact that actually blew me away a little
Speaker 1: bit in the first draft. Stalone writes the draft, the
Speaker 1: first draft over three days, and there's a lot of
Speaker 1: rewrites goes on. In fact, Mickey was quite racist in
Speaker 1: the first draft. Adrian was Jewish, Pauli was a Jewish.
Speaker 1: Step matther I mentioned that during the podcast. I got
Speaker 1: to say, Mickey's a little bit racist in this one.
Speaker 1: But in the end, what was supposed to happen in
Speaker 1: the end was Rocky was going to throw the fight
Speaker 1: and then use the money to open a pet store
Speaker 1: with Adrian. Can you believe that? Can you believe that
Speaker 1: being the ending of Rocky. I don't think you get
Speaker 1: Rocky two, Rocky three, Rocky four, or the Apollos. Rocky
Speaker 1: is opening a pet store. That sounds more like a
Speaker 1: Pixar film to me. That was great. That was great fun.
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed that so much. Thank you Claiboutich. Once again,
Speaker 1: thank you Derek for all your work throughout this season.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a shorter break. I know the
Speaker 1: last time we took like it was almost a three
Speaker 1: close to a three month break. It's would be close
Speaker 1: to a bit of a three week break. The suits
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. I want me to get back quicker than
Speaker 1: I did last time. We are with iHeartRadio now still
Speaker 1: being produced by Castways Studios and recording here, but it'll
Speaker 1: be a shorter break. We're going to record some episodes
Speaker 1: to get ahead of the pack, and we'll come back
Speaker 1: with some great guests and some great movies. Please send
Speaker 1: your emails to yasny podcast at gmail dot com, or
Speaker 1: you can jump on our speak pipe if you follow
Speaker 1: the links and leave a voice message for us, and
Speaker 1: you're going to hear your own voice on our podcast.
Speaker 1: We do have an email that we wanted to read
Speaker 1: to court our attention. Derek, who's that front before we
Speaker 1: before we wrap up?
Speaker 4: This one's from Mark in Queensland. Beauty. Hi, Pete. Love
Speaker 4: the podcast, but damn you Hellier, you have plunged me
Speaker 4: into financial ruin. Haven't done that because every time you
Speaker 4: review a movie or talk up one of the reviewers
Speaker 4: top three, I have to sign up to another streaming.
Speaker 4: I'm with Mark and that one happens to me.
Speaker 1: Well, if you're working entertainment, you can claim it on
Speaker 1: tax Mark. That's just you need. You need to work.
Speaker 1: I had to work in the industry and then you
Speaker 1: disclaim it all on tax I didn't know that, but
Speaker 1: you should be doing that. You should be doing that
Speaker 1: just in time.
Speaker 4: I also can't believe that nobody has done pulp fiction.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 4: There is so much to discuss and unravel in this classic.
Speaker 1: It's funny. We had somebody recently talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: requesting more Tarantino films. I do when I put out
Speaker 1: the list to any potential guests, I kind of sometimes say,
Speaker 1: you know, we're keen to do you know, some Tarantino
Speaker 1: or some Hitchcock or some foreign language films. There have
Speaker 1: been some stuff that's been requested, so it's just a
Speaker 1: matter of finding that right person. So certainly a classic film,
Speaker 1: and you know, I would love to talk polp fiction
Speaker 1: with someone I know, Peter. And Peter Gat, one of
Speaker 1: our most fervent listeners, I have to say, loves the podcast.
Speaker 1: It often reminds me that the podcast has come out
Speaker 1: each week on Twitter for some reason, he hates pulp fiction.
Speaker 1: So we may actually lose one of our most passionate
Speaker 1: followers for one week if we do pop fiction. But
Speaker 1: I think at some point we will have to do it.
Speaker 1: So polp fiction, I'm sure we'll get to it at
Speaker 1: some point, and of course reservoir dogs absolutely.
Speaker 4: And he comes a good bit. Talking of classics, I
Speaker 4: had a laugh when you were discussing with Luke McGregor
Speaker 4: whether you can include Harry Potter as it might not
Speaker 4: be a classic.
Speaker 1: Well, if that's fair enough, here's the burden.
Speaker 4: But you did have weird science classic really regards.
Speaker 1: Mark Oh, Mark, Well, I mean I take your point.
Speaker 1: I do take your point, but we'd science does. There's
Speaker 1: different genres and yeah, I mean we may have. We
Speaker 1: may have scraped the one that I the other one
Speaker 1: is Ronnie Chang doing made in Manhattan, but I would
Speaker 1: still argue that, you know, as a romantic comedy, it's
Speaker 1: up there. Yeah, I take your point. I take you
Speaker 1: Sometimes we scrape, we we we shoehorn them in because
Speaker 1: it's it's about developing, you know, covering genres as well,
Speaker 1: and different kinds of films, which is fun. Maybe you
Speaker 1: should have been Porky, so maybe make would been happy
Speaker 1: with Porky's or Zapps. All great films, all great films.
Speaker 1: I want to thank listeners really sincerely, I'm blown away.
Speaker 1: This started as a labor of love, really, just the
Speaker 1: filling the gaps in my own filmography, and I have
Speaker 1: loved watching these films and having these conversations and feedback
Speaker 1: I've received both through the yasny podcast, a Gmail, and
Speaker 1: just on my Instagram and Twitter feeds. People come up
Speaker 1: to me personally and then saying how much after gigs. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's been really really touching. I'm so glad we're building
Speaker 1: this community, and that was always the dream that we
Speaker 1: could build this, you know, a community of film lovers
Speaker 1: who love talking about films. There'll be more live events.
Speaker 1: I would love to get one hundred episode live event
Speaker 1: going and one or two more. We might aim to
Speaker 1: do maybe three live events in season five. That would
Speaker 1: be amazing, So thank you, Thanks to all the amazing
Speaker 1: guests in season. In season four, we start with Osha
Speaker 1: Ginsburg doing Roman Holiday. You know, it seems like a
Speaker 1: while ago now in Kate Lainbrook with Fight Club and
Speaker 1: everyone who's just been on it for the twenty odd episodes.
Speaker 1: We have done some big names. I've been talking to
Speaker 1: visit us in season five, some big movies. What I
Speaker 1: might do next time is maybe release in advance who
Speaker 1: we have coming up so people can actually watch the movies.
Speaker 1: Have requested that a little bit of time to be
Speaker 1: able to get the movies watched before the episodes come out,
Speaker 1: so we might try to put out a little calendar
Speaker 1: of what might be coming up. Sometimes, you know, we
Speaker 1: can't always do that. Sometimes that we do record it
Speaker 1: literally days before you hear it. Sometimes they are more
Speaker 1: in advance. So thank you so much, thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: Thank you Derek, and we will see you in a
Speaker 1: few weeks for season five of You Ain't See Nothing
Speaker 1: Yet until then, take care, and so we leave old
Speaker 1: Pete save Van Sult, and to our friends of the
Speaker 1: radio audience, we've been a pleasant good name.