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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcoton woman from Gadighal Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily os It's Thursday,

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Speaker 2: the twenty first of December, or better known as Gravy Day.

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Speaker 2: Thanks to Paul Kelly, I'm.

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Speaker 3: Zara, I'm Sam.

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Speaker 2: Some big news out of the US yesterday, the state

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Speaker 2: of Colorado ruled that Donald Trump is ineligible to be

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Speaker 2: on the ballot in the state for president in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty four. That's due to his involvement in the Capital

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Speaker 2: insurrection on jan six, twenty twenty one. Essentially, what that

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Speaker 2: means is that if you're a person voting in Colorado

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Speaker 2: at the next US election, you won't see Donald Trump's

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Speaker 2: name on the ballot paper unless this decision is overturned

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Speaker 2: by the US Supreme Court. We'll explain exactly what we

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Speaker 2: mean in today's Deep dive first sam take us through

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Speaker 2: the day's headlines.

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Speaker 3: Airbnb has been ordered to pay millions in penalties and

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Speaker 3: compensation after the consumer watchdog found it misled customers. The

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Speaker 3: short term accommodation platform admitted to incorrectly charging around seventy

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Speaker 3: thousand Australians in US dollars for properties listed on its

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Speaker 3: Australian site between twenty eighteen and twenty twenty one. Airbinb

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Speaker 3: has been handed a fifteen million dollar fine by the

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Speaker 3: ad Triple C and will spend a further fifteen million

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Speaker 3: dollars to reimburse impacted customers.

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Speaker 2: Australia's road toll has increased after what was already the

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Speaker 2: deadliest year in over five years. A crashing out back

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Speaker 2: New South Wales has left three people dead and another

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Speaker 2: in a serious condition. There have been over one thy

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Speaker 2: two hundred deaths on Australian roads this year. That's according

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Speaker 2: to the Automobile Association, with targets to reach zero road

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Speaker 2: deaths by twenty fifty not on track in most parts

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Speaker 2: of the country.

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Speaker 3: Prime ins Anthony Albanezi has met with his New Zealand

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Speaker 3: counterpart Christopher Luxen in Sydney. It marks Luxen's first overseas

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Speaker 3: trip as leader of New Zealand after he was sworn

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Speaker 3: into office last month. The two Prime Ministers discussed economic

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Speaker 3: and defense ties between Australia and New Zealand and shared

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Speaker 3: interests in the Indo Pacific region during the meeting yesterday.

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Speaker 3: It comes as the leaders released a joint statement calling

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Speaker 3: for a sustainable ceasefire in the Israel Hamas conflict and the.

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Speaker 2: Good new is A new beach nicknamed Pondai has opened

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Speaker 2: in the outer western Sydney suburb of Penrith, one of

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Speaker 2: the city's hottest suburbs. Penrith and its surrounding suburbs face

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Speaker 2: extreme heat during the summer, with temperatures regularly above forty degrees.

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Speaker 2: The man made outdoor swimming spot means residents can cool

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Speaker 2: off without having to travel up to seventy five kilometers

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Speaker 2: to the beach ahead of an unusually warm summer expected

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Speaker 2: from the current on Ninia weather event. Okay, so sam

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Speaker 2: We briefly explained in the introduction this insane story is

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Speaker 2: that Colorado has ruled that Donald Trump is ineligible to

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Speaker 2: run for president again in twenty twenty four in that

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Speaker 2: specific state, and it will remove his name from the

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Speaker 2: state's ballot paper for Trump's team now is that the

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Speaker 2: courts in other states will use this decision as a precedent,

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Speaker 2: and that could have obvious major implications. Before we get there, though,

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Speaker 2: can you just give us a brief overview of where

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Speaker 2: we're at with the US election next year. I feel

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Speaker 2: like kind of drifts in and out of the news cycle,

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Speaker 2: but we're under a year away now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And if we know anything about America, it's that

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Speaker 3: they like nice long presidential election cycles, so it's definitely

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Speaker 3: in full swing. I don't really need to introduce you

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Speaker 3: to Donald Trump. He's from the Republican Party. He was

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Speaker 3: the US president from twenty seventeen to twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 3: and he was eventually defeated by Joe Biden, who is

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Speaker 3: from the Democratic Party at the last election. And this year,

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump and Joe Biden both confirms they can run

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Speaker 3: again for the presidency at next year's election. The presidential

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Speaker 3: election will be in about no Vemoray.

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Speaker 2: Necessarily both actually end up being the candidates, right.

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Speaker 3: No, so they both nominated on both sides of the

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Speaker 3: political spectrum. But before Trump can be confirmed as the

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Speaker 3: official Republican nominee. He first needs to be chosen by

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Speaker 3: the Republican Party in a process that's called the primaries. Now,

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Speaker 3: at the moment, most polls do have Trump as the

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Speaker 3: most favored Republican candidate. The other two front runners in

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Speaker 3: the race are Ron De Santis and Nikki Haley.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So with that context set, talk us through what's

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Speaker 2: happened in Colorado.

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Speaker 3: So earlier this year, a group of people, they comprised

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Speaker 3: of registered Republicans and others, brought a case in a

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Speaker 3: Colorado court arguing Donald Trump could not run for president

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Speaker 3: due to his involvement in the January sixth Capital Insurrection. Now,

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Speaker 3: there's not much in the US Constitution that can actually

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Speaker 3: rule someone out of running for president, but of the

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Speaker 3: things that you can do to be ruled out, engaging

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Speaker 3: in an insurrection is one of those factors. And that

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Speaker 3: all goes back to the fourteenth Amendment of the US Constitution,

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Speaker 3: which forbids anyone who's previously held civil or military office

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Speaker 3: and engaged in insurrections from running for high office.

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Speaker 2: And can I just quickly jump in here. I feel

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Speaker 2: like we've just been saying jan six insurrection a number

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Speaker 2: of times. Just talk us through what that actually means.

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Speaker 3: It was a particularly fun today for you and Mezara,

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Speaker 3: because we actually quit our jobs to do the Daily

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Speaker 3: Hosit full time the day before, so we'd just quit

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Speaker 3: our jobs. And then there was this massive moment in politics.

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Speaker 3: On the sixth of January twenty twenty one, Trump's supporters

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Speaker 3: storms the US Capital to try and stop the certification

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Speaker 3: of Joe Biden's win at the twenty twenty election, and

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Speaker 3: the protests echoed Trump's false claims that the election had

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Speaker 3: been stolen and rigged, and they literally were trying to

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Speaker 3: stop the Capitol from operating on that day to stop

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Speaker 3: Biden from taking office. Now, the exact role that Trump

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Speaker 3: played in sparking the insurrection is contest, but the general

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Speaker 3: view amongst moderate Republicans and the rest of the US

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Speaker 3: political landscape is that Trump pushed his supporters to take

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Speaker 3: up arms and storm the Capitol, and this whole discussion

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Speaker 3: was the subject of Trump's second impeachment. Now, since Trump

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Speaker 3: left Offers, there's been a huge range of cases that

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Speaker 3: have been raised in various US states. I think the

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Speaker 3: last count is about thirty five cases arguing Trump is

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Speaker 3: ineligible to run as president due to his involvement in

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Speaker 3: the January sixth riots, which would trigger that fourteenth Amendment clause.

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Speaker 2: All right, so one of those states was Colorado. How

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Speaker 2: did the court actually reach a decision.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So a lot of these cases are happening all

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Speaker 3: at the same time, but this case in Colorado was

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Speaker 3: the first one in the US where we've had a

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Speaker 3: clear decision against Trump. So there's three main questions that

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Speaker 3: the Colorado Court needed to answer. One, did Donald Trump

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Speaker 3: hold a civil or military office when he became US president? Two?

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Speaker 3: Did he engage in the January sixth riots? And three

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Speaker 3: can courts remove someone from a political ballot? Now, the

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Speaker 3: lower Colorado court said yes to two, so yes, he

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Speaker 3: did engage with the riots, and yes, you can remove

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Speaker 3: someone from a political ballot. And know that Donald Trump

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Speaker 3: did not hold civil or military office when he became president,

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Speaker 3: and that meant that that original legal challenge was unsuccessful.

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Speaker 3: But as we've heard many times on this podcast, the

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Speaker 3: decision was appealed, and yesterday the Supreme Court of Colorado,

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Speaker 3: the state's highest court, said yes to all three factors.

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Speaker 2: Can I just clarify, though I don't entirely understand you

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Speaker 2: said that the court ultimately found that Donald Trump did

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Speaker 2: hold civil or military office when he became US president.

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Speaker 2: What does that actually mean he was the president?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, this is kind of the key distinction that

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Speaker 3: the court made. And there's about seventy five pages of

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Speaker 3: judgments if you really want to read read up on

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Speaker 3: US constitutional law. But essentially, over the years, courts have

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Speaker 3: taken different interpretations as to what that phrase holding civil

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Speaker 3: or military office actually means. And the president in US

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Speaker 3: politics holds this really weird position as an executive branch

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Speaker 3: of government where on a lot of occasions the president

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Speaker 3: is not part of the military legally or not part

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Speaker 3: of the civil service legally. It's kind of this extra

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Speaker 3: floating body up above everything else. And on some occasions

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Speaker 3: courts have agreed that the president should be applicable under

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Speaker 3: this fourteenth Amendment and on others they haven't. It can

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Speaker 3: vary state by state. On this occasion, the Supreme Court

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Speaker 3: in Colorado said, yes, Donald Trump as president falls under

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Speaker 3: that fourteenth Amendment.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so ultimately that legal challenge was then successful. What

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Speaker 2: are the implications of.

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Speaker 3: That, Well, it basically means that if you're a voter

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Speaker 3: in Colorado and you walk in and pick up an

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Speaker 3: election ballot next year, either for the primaries or the

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Speaker 3: final election, You're not going to see Donald Trump's name

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Speaker 3: on that ballot paper. Now, this ruling doesn't apply to

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Speaker 3: other states, but the real fear here for the Trump

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Speaker 3: campaign is that it could prompt other states to take

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Speaker 3: similar legal action, and it actually could strengthen the case

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Speaker 3: against him in other courts. If other courts look at Colorado,

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Speaker 3: look at that reasoning, and agree with it, then we

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Speaker 3: could see a kind of ripple effect across the US. Now,

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Speaker 3: there's two things that are worth mentioning. One is that

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Speaker 3: the Trump campaign have come out very fast and said

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Speaker 3: that they're going to appeal the case to the US

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court, so the court that's above the Colorado Supreme Court.

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Speaker 3: But there's one other really important thing to mention. If

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Speaker 3: no other states did copy Colorado, and even if that

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Speaker 3: decision remained and Donald Trump was not applicable to run,

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Speaker 3: then Trump could still win the presidency. He just wouldn't

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Speaker 3: win Colorado, and a lot of experts say he would

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Speaker 3: never have won Colorado. Democrats have beaten Republicans in the

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Speaker 3: last four elections in the state, and it is very

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Speaker 3: likely that Trump would lose the state. In twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 3: Trump's campaign team has confirmed it will escalate the matter

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Speaker 3: to the highest court in the country, the US Supreme Court.

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Speaker 2: We always say that there are several players in the

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Speaker 2: news that you just need to learn a bit about,

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Speaker 2: and then suddenly they're always in the news. It feels

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Speaker 2: like Colin Trump is one of those people, and the

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court is another of the institutions that come up

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Speaker 2: time and time again. So do we know anything about

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Speaker 2: what the US Supreme Court will do?

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Speaker 3: Look, we need to kind of wait to see how

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Speaker 3: the arguments are presented in the Supreme Court. That could

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Speaker 3: take months, but I think we can look at the

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Speaker 3: composition of the court to try and glean a little

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Speaker 3: understanding as to how the court could vote. So, currently

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Speaker 3: the Supreme Court is split six ' three between Republican

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Speaker 3: and Democrat appointed judges. Keep in mind that Trump appointed

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Speaker 3: three of the current Republican judges, So the court is

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Speaker 3: unlikely to uphold the Colorado Supreme Court's ruling if every

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Speaker 3: judge votes on party lines and those six Republican appointed

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Speaker 3: judges vote against the Colorado Court's decision.

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Speaker 2: And just finally, can you give me a sense of

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Speaker 2: what you think the approach of Trump's team could be

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Speaker 2: before the Supreme Court, Like, what do you think that

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Speaker 2: they'll argue here.

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Speaker 3: It's going to be a really interesting argument that they're

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Speaker 3: going to mount, and I don't think will necessarily hear

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Speaker 3: Trump doing it in court. It will be kind of

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Speaker 3: his lawyers and his legal teams doing the work for him.

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Speaker 3: One thing they're really going to push is that Trump

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Speaker 3: did not have an involvement in the insurrection, and that's

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Speaker 3: something that he and his team have maintained throughout the

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Speaker 3: last two years. They've distanced themselves from the eventual actions

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Speaker 3: of the rioters on January sixth, and a key part

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Speaker 3: of this case is that Trump was part of that insurrection.

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Speaker 3: So they'll argue, no, he wasn't. But the second thing

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Speaker 3: they'll argue is much more theoretical, and that's this idea

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Speaker 3: that in the US, this is one of the first times,

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Speaker 3: definitely one of the most high profile times where a

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Speaker 3: court has ruled who people can vote for. And in

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Speaker 3: a country that loves the idea of the separation of

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Speaker 3: the courts and the political system and the executive branch,

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Speaker 3: this is one of those rare occasions where the courts

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Speaker 3: are directly impacting the election ballot, and I think that

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Speaker 3: is going to form a lot of their argument.

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Speaker 2: And absolutely scating story, and I feel like it's just

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Speaker 2: one chapter of the very long Donald Trump's story. But

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Speaker 2: thank you for explaining that to me today. Sam. If

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Speaker 2: you are listening to this on Spotify, we'd love you

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Speaker 2: to rate this podcast five stars. Wouldn't go amiss and

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Speaker 2: would certainly help us get into the holiday chair. Have

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Speaker 2: a great day. We'll be back again tomorrow.