Speaker 1: Good day, Peter, Helly here, welcome to you. Ain't seen
Speaker 1: nothing yet the movie Podcast, where I chat to a
Speaker 1: movie lover about a classic or beloved the movie they
Speaker 1: haven't quite got around to watching until now. And today's
Speaker 1: guests broadcaster filmmaker Todd Sampson.
Speaker 2: Do you any think you have a chance against us?
Speaker 2: Mister cowboy?
Speaker 1: Open the potbay doors.
Speaker 2: Hell, I'll have what she's having.
Speaker 1: Happening right now.
Speaker 3: Don't see nothing here.
Speaker 1: Todd's amson is truly a unique voice and presence on
Speaker 1: the Australian and that global TV landscape. Born in Ontario, Canada,
Speaker 1: Todd made his way to Australia buy Our South Africa
Speaker 1: and became the CEO of advertising giant Leo Burnette Australia.
Speaker 1: It's this that lands Todd on this weird little show
Speaker 1: called The Gruin Transfer with that good mate Will Anderson
Speaker 1: and Russell Howkraft, a show that takes a deep yet
Speaker 1: entertaining look into the world of advertising. Todd becomes the
Speaker 1: breakout star of the show. And before you email me,
Speaker 1: Will Anderson was already a star before Ruin, So that's
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Todd was the breakout star. Okay, they
Speaker 1: want any fights, and Russell is awesome too. Todd is intelligent, fun,
Speaker 1: his observation always nuanced. Todd co created earth Hour, which
Speaker 1: I did not know. I've been majoring for years. I
Speaker 1: did not know my mate Cochre had Earth Hour, one
Speaker 1: of the biggest environmental initiatives ever, reaching five and a
Speaker 1: half billion people around the world. Todd has climbed Everest's
Speaker 1: Bloody Well climbed Everest. He's even scored a role an
Speaker 1: acting role in the hit movie Lion Incredible. In more
Speaker 1: recent years, Todd has been scoring big as a filmmaker
Speaker 1: with his doco series where he puts himself in insane
Speaker 1: situations like there are times I had to say to him, mate,
Speaker 1: to take care of you, So please, do you make
Speaker 1: me nervous just to come home safe. He is like
Speaker 1: the Bear Grills, but with a more kind of sciencey approach.
Speaker 1: From readers on My Brain to Todd Samson's Body Hack,
Speaker 1: they often extremely confronting the watch and his news series
Speaker 1: Merror Mirror Loved to Hate maybe his most terrifying one yet,
Speaker 1: because it looks at how screens are impacting our lives,
Speaker 1: our homes, and our brains. It is must watch it
Speaker 1: started on Monday. Please watch it. Not just because my
Speaker 1: friends aren't doing my show, but it's actually important television.
Speaker 1: I got to know Todd because for a few years
Speaker 1: he was a regular on the Project, and I love
Speaker 1: hanging out with him. I loved every time he was on.
Speaker 1: Todd someone who he never takes himself too seriously. He's
Speaker 1: abundantly curious and I'm bloody stoked to be hanging with
Speaker 1: him today.
Speaker 2: Hi there, My name is Todd Sampson. My three favorite
Speaker 2: movies are Apocalypse Now.
Speaker 4: Charging a man with murder in this place was like
Speaker 4: handing out speeding tickets at the Indy five hundred.
Speaker 2: Out of Africa, Ruiselip Maidens, light Footland and garden State.
Speaker 5: You gotta go bury this hamster before the dogs e
Speaker 5: done my help.
Speaker 2: And up until up until last week, I hadn't seen
Speaker 2: the Shawshank redemption.
Speaker 5: Rule Number one, no blasphemy. I'll not have the lord's
Speaker 5: name taken in vain in my prison. The other rules
Speaker 5: you'll figure out as you go along. Any questions, when
Speaker 5: do we eat.
Speaker 6: You.
Speaker 4: Eat when we say you eat, you shit when we
Speaker 4: say you shit, and you piss when.
Speaker 1: We say you pissed, you got that you make it.
Speaker 1: Take motherfucker on your feet.
Speaker 5: I believe in two things, discipline and the Bible. Here
Speaker 5: you'll receive both. Put your trust in the Lord. Your
Speaker 5: ass belongs to me. Welcome to Shawshank.
Speaker 1: Welcome to show Shank. In the it's time to get
Speaker 1: busy living or get busy dying in front think Darabun's
Speaker 1: adaptation of Stephen King's novel Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption.
Speaker 1: It's nineteen forty seven and main banker Andy Dufrain has
Speaker 1: been found guilty of a double murder his wife and
Speaker 1: the golf pro she was well, let's just say they
Speaker 1: were playing around in the rough A mild and measured.
Speaker 1: Andy gets sent the Shawshank Prison, housing some of the
Speaker 1: most violent criminals in the state, as well as old
Speaker 1: Golden Thomson is himself Morgan Freeman, who plays Red, the
Speaker 1: only guilty man in shaw Shank. From there they form
Speaker 1: a bond that for many movie lovers, especially for some
Speaker 1: reason footballers, it is the backbone of one of the
Speaker 1: greatest movies in movie history. It's rated number one in
Speaker 1: IMDb's Greatest Ever list, ahead of Godfather Part two and
Speaker 1: The Dark Knight a genuine flop upon release, it made
Speaker 1: seventy million off a twenty five million budget, but then,
Speaker 1: amazingly it was nominated for seven Academy Awards, Tim Robbins,
Speaker 1: missing Outland and No. Surprisingly, the movie, however, does not
Speaker 1: win a single one sing. Redemption is a classic movie
Speaker 1: about hope, how it could be both dangerous and life saving.
Speaker 1: Todd Samson, have you crawled through a tunnel of shit
Speaker 1: to be with me today?
Speaker 2: You haven't listening to listening to explain it. It's an
Speaker 2: indictment on me that I hadn't seen it until six
Speaker 2: days ago.
Speaker 1: Well, i'd be really well, this is one of the
Speaker 1: movies that gets requested a lot, and the reason we
Speaker 1: haven't done it up until now, when it's one hundred
Speaker 1: episodes in now everyone kind of has seen it. It
Speaker 1: rarely comes up your first. I think that, and that's
Speaker 1: why I jumped on, And you know, I think it's
Speaker 1: a perfect film, and I kind of thought you would
Speaker 1: like it. We'll get to that soon. But it's it's
Speaker 1: so revered, it's it's so lovely. It is in the
Speaker 1: conversation of the greatest film ever. Now again, we'll get
Speaker 1: we'll get to your your thoughts on that, but it's
Speaker 1: much loved and why having you seen it like as
Speaker 1: it did? It just not.
Speaker 2: Excuse. I guess my excuse at the time when I
Speaker 2: try to think back to, you know, nineteen four.
Speaker 1: And then it kind of explodes in ninety five on videos.
Speaker 2: So I think I was probably and maybe I still
Speaker 2: have now sort of swept up in many populist movies
Speaker 2: and this wasn't so. All I remember reading were the
Speaker 2: crip reviews when it came out, saying it's not that good,
Speaker 2: it's boring. And I guess for me, cinema has It's
Speaker 2: been a huge part of my license since I was
Speaker 2: a child, but it's escaped for me, and I thought, okay, well,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to waste that precious time that I
Speaker 2: use in the cinema for a movie that people are
Speaker 2: saying it's not good. Wow, what a mistake that.
Speaker 1: Was, Morgan Freeman. It believes that one of the reasons
Speaker 1: it wasn't a hit on release was a nine that
Speaker 1: people couldn't couldn't get their heads around a name, which
Speaker 1: I think you know, and you're a perfect person to
Speaker 1: ask about this with your with your background, that it
Speaker 1: is really important, isn't it Like when you see and
Speaker 1: you love the Shaw Shank Redemption, it makes complete and
Speaker 1: there's a great title after the fact, But when you're
Speaker 1: when you know nothing about a film and you're looking
Speaker 1: at it and kind of going, what what's shaw Shank?
Speaker 1: What's what does that mean? And Morgan Freeman with how
Speaker 1: people say I saw this movie Scrimshaw Resolution and they
Speaker 1: just couldn't get it in their heads. It didn't float.
Speaker 1: Is that How big a factory is that?
Speaker 2: Well that would have been a major part of it
Speaker 2: for me as well. So you really only have three
Speaker 2: things when it first starts. You have the name. You
Speaker 2: have that the actors who are the brands themselves, and
Speaker 2: then you have the reviews if you glance upon and
Speaker 2: look at a review. And so for me, I wasn't
Speaker 2: a massive Jim Robley's fan, so it's not like I was,
Speaker 2: you know, wanting to see comps he was in. So
Speaker 2: it failed on all three. From yeah, I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: well the name, I don't I sort of get another
Speaker 2: prison Break film. You know, I've seen him before, you know,
Speaker 2: And then and the main character, I was like, I
Speaker 2: mean I loved Morgan Freeman, but I thought he was
Speaker 2: a sub character in it. I assumed, uh, And and
Speaker 2: then of course the reviews were like, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: you might be wasting your time, you might fall asleep
Speaker 2: in the cinema.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know what's interesting about that about about
Speaker 2: the pacing? Right, So, so now watching it now in
Speaker 2: this kind of crazy tech, you know, low attention span
Speaker 2: world that we live in, it was interesting challenge to
Speaker 2: watch this film because it has this sort of languid pacing.
Speaker 2: It's not there to pump it at you, you know,
Speaker 2: the when some directors use this every three minute thing.
Speaker 2: So every three minute there's some kind of change or
Speaker 2: action to keep you on and on and on and
Speaker 2: reversals and reversals. This has a lot of reversals, but
Speaker 2: it's slow, and it really is. I could see why
Speaker 2: now has become popular, but I could also see why
Speaker 2: there would be a generation to people that would struggle
Speaker 2: to actually get through it when they can only look
Speaker 2: at stuff on TikTok for thirty seconds.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's that's why Morgan Freeman's voiceover is so
Speaker 1: important in this it's it's and lots of people have
Speaker 1: different opinions on where the voiceover is lazy. I think
Speaker 1: this is one of the really good examples of it working.
Speaker 1: But it set it does set a tone like you
Speaker 1: really do need to settle in and watch your shape,
Speaker 1: particularly for the first you know time, and maybe the
Speaker 1: second or third time, and then you know, it becomes
Speaker 1: one of those movies if you do love and if
Speaker 1: you do respond to it, that if it's on TV,
Speaker 1: you just need to watch it. If if Andy Dufrain's
Speaker 1: you know plan is about to be you know, announced
Speaker 1: to the viewers, you need to the scene. No matter
Speaker 1: how many times you've seen the film. We're going to
Speaker 1: get to it very soon because I really want to
Speaker 1: know all your thoughts on it. But let's talk about
Speaker 1: your three favorite films. Let's over Apocalypse now. Deal. Joy
Speaker 1: Singer did this on our podcast. I watched it for
Speaker 1: that episode without having seen it for a while, and
Speaker 1: I watched I think we watched the kind of recent
Speaker 1: the redo on it. I mean, the ambition is there
Speaker 1: for everybody to see in that film. He's you know,
Speaker 1: famously a troubled shoot. Nothing with nothing was easy, but
Speaker 1: what a glorious looking picture and still it's still just
Speaker 1: looks like it could have been made last.
Speaker 2: Week as inside I was when I was thinking about
Speaker 2: the three films that I enjoy or films that my
Speaker 2: favorite that had impacted me in childhood. For that time period,
Speaker 2: it was between that and Debbie Does Dallas. But I thought,
Speaker 2: us cutting WI Does Dallas as a promo, are working
Speaker 2: on it together, and this wouldn't work well. But that
Speaker 2: had a massive impact on me as a child.
Speaker 1: But if you want to put Debbie does Dallas in,
Speaker 1: nobody has put W Does Dallas to be the first one.
Speaker 2: I remember shoving shoving the VHS in the recorder and
Speaker 2: sitting back and with all my friends in the basement
Speaker 2: of my friend's house and going, this is going to
Speaker 2: be great. And then I also remember, like sort of
Speaker 2: halfway through the film, feeling slightly uncomfortable that I was
Speaker 2: sitting around with a whole bunch of blogs with baseball
Speaker 2: caps and beer watching Debbie dost Downs. Anyway, let's move
Speaker 2: on to.
Speaker 1: Now before you do. Before you do, because I had
Speaker 1: a very weirdly similar experience, not necessarily Debbie Does Dallas,
Speaker 1: but I remember somebody in our street. I've got my
Speaker 1: brother Mark, he's four years older, and it wasn't him,
Speaker 1: but somebody in the street got a porno, you know,
Speaker 1: VHS porno, probably from the local milk bar, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, yes, under the counter, you know, he could
Speaker 1: supply with one, and and so they brought it to
Speaker 1: our house because both our parents were working, they wouldn't
Speaker 1: be home for you know, a few hours, and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, like you're supposed to be. I only
Speaker 1: found out because I was like, what's going on? And
Speaker 1: because there's a few my brother had a few mates,
Speaker 1: I know what's going on here, and he had to
Speaker 1: tell me obviously, because you know, he had to explain
Speaker 1: it to me, so so and then all all I
Speaker 1: remember was like, then it's not word got out, and
Speaker 1: then like people, people I've never seen before started coming
Speaker 1: over to watch this pawn. I must have been like
Speaker 1: maybe fourteen maybe, and I remember we had a table
Speaker 1: tennis set up and people are lying on the table
Speaker 1: tennis table watching in bean bags. It's watching this.
Speaker 2: Most influential movies of all time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've never seen Debbie does Dallas, but it did
Speaker 1: become certainly the the kind of reference point for pawn
Speaker 1: and like a big, a big kind of comedic reference
Speaker 1: point as well, Like if you met somebody called Debbie
Speaker 1: like your mind or often went, oh, you've been to Dallas,
Speaker 1: you know, Like.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's no Oscars being awarded to Debbie does Dallas.
Speaker 1: No, No, sadly, sadly.
Speaker 2: It rarely gets reviewed on podcasts rarely.
Speaker 1: This could be the first time, this could be the
Speaker 1: first time. But you want to talk about apocalypse now,
Speaker 1: so let's go back to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was something when I was young about the
Speaker 2: that I enjoyed about the journey of darkness, Like I'll
Speaker 2: never forget them going in that dark, like it's it's
Speaker 2: night time and they're on the ship and they're going
Speaker 2: And I also really love the inner dialogues, like I
Speaker 2: love movies that play out the thoughts and and and
Speaker 2: are written cleverly and smartly, and you know, and you
Speaker 2: get to kind of go, oh, he's going through and
Speaker 2: then when he arrives and you know, and Brando is
Speaker 2: there and it's just I don't know, it doesn't get
Speaker 2: better when the helicopter when they're doing the concert and
Speaker 2: the helicopter company, and I mean, it's it's a phenomenal film.
Speaker 2: And and uh, if you're a film lover and you
Speaker 2: haven't seen that, well you're like me not having seen
Speaker 2: I recommend checking out Apocalypse Now. But as you said,
Speaker 2: stands at testa time, like you could run that film
Speaker 2: now in a cinema and you would get huge I mean,
Speaker 2: there are obviously diehards, but if you hadn't seen it before,
Speaker 2: like it would be a film that you'd go, Wow,
Speaker 2: that's brilliantly made, it's brilliantly paced. It's the music is sensational,
Speaker 2: the characters are well developed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's what's going about rewatching Apocalypse Now is
Speaker 1: there are so many things that are happening in the
Speaker 1: background or some of those shots, so something like that,
Speaker 1: there's helicopter crashes and this shit going on in these villages,
Speaker 1: you know, in Vietnam, and you're like, what is it like?
Speaker 1: And it's and with the first time you watch it,
Speaker 1: you might be focusing on the foreground. But if you
Speaker 1: go back and watch it and you're concentrate a little
Speaker 1: bit on the on the background, like he's using the
Speaker 1: entire frame every single time, that's.
Speaker 2: Right, And you know, then of course you can watch
Speaker 2: out the darkness, you can watch the making of you
Speaker 2: can see when you see that, then you realize that
Speaker 2: the making is its own movie. You know, it's it's
Speaker 2: like a phenomenal the things that happened. And yeah, so
Speaker 2: that that that will go down as one of my
Speaker 2: favorite films of all time.
Speaker 1: And also astonishing Todd that he's doing this with that
Speaker 1: not only does he not have playback in the moment,
Speaker 1: they're shooting on film obviously in the seventies, so he
Speaker 1: doesn't have playback, but he's not even seen the rushes
Speaker 1: until he gets back to America, like and so to
Speaker 1: have that and to deliver such a beautiful looking film
Speaker 1: with the performances as great as they are is an
Speaker 1: astonishing feat.
Speaker 2: And no real reliance on visual effects. Now everything is done.
Speaker 2: I mean they're they're shooting up the land, they're blowing
Speaker 2: up this there. He only got one shot at that.
Speaker 2: Then nothing's gone like and then you got to rebuild
Speaker 2: and do it all again. It's yeah, it's and and
Speaker 2: you know, he is such the director is such a character.
Speaker 2: I mean he's like, you know, the stories of what
Speaker 2: happened on the set and Brando getting pissed off and
Speaker 2: walking off and not one again the film, Dennis hof
Speaker 2: I mean, you just couldn't have put a more eclectic
Speaker 2: cast together, like basically putting them on an island and
Speaker 2: saying good luck making this film, and they're all at
Speaker 2: each other and.
Speaker 1: Well, what was already going to be a very difficult
Speaker 1: film to make and the tricky film to make, and
Speaker 1: with the challenges that they had. Yeah, the fact that
Speaker 1: there was so much misbehavior and drug use and health
Speaker 1: crisis on that set was amazing. Usually that film ends
Speaker 1: up being like The Island of Doctor Monroe or something
Speaker 1: like that. The fact that it's a film that comes
Speaker 1: up constantly in people's top three films is incredible. It's
Speaker 1: incredible Out of Africa. I don't like it when this happens,
Speaker 1: but I haven't seen it, and you have seen it.
Speaker 1: I've not seen Out of Africa, And well, I don't
Speaker 1: remember seeing it. I may have walked through the rumpus
Speaker 1: room while mum was watching it one night. I kind
Speaker 1: of have like the aesthetic, you know, and I can
Speaker 1: kind of see it in a way, but I don't
Speaker 1: remember watching it. No.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I grew up in a small town in Sydney,
Speaker 2: Cape Brighton Island on the east coast of Canada, and
Speaker 2: I spent my whole time wanting to be somewhere else.
Speaker 2: You know, wanting to explore the world. My parents never
Speaker 2: went to school, so their horizons were very, very narrow short,
Speaker 2: you know. And when this movie came out, so park
Speaker 2: the obvious issues with colonialism. You know that this movie
Speaker 2: talks about and demonstrates in many ways. I had not
Speaker 2: really thought about Africa as a place for me to
Speaker 2: visit and want to go to. But when I watched
Speaker 2: that film, there is nothing I wanted more than to
Speaker 2: go to Africa. And I ended up living there for
Speaker 2: six years and traveling throughout and climbing throughout, and I've
Speaker 2: now brought my kids back three times. It is such
Speaker 2: a major, major, major part of my life, and I
Speaker 2: can pinpoint the seed to that film. So Africa itself
Speaker 2: is a character in that film is extraordinary. The music,
Speaker 2: which I now play myself and piano and things. I
Speaker 2: love the soundtrack of that. And maybe it's my own
Speaker 2: issues with intimacy, but I'm a sucker for love stories.
Speaker 2: I always had my wife's like, she refuses to go
Speaker 2: cinema to a love story. She's dystopian love stories, right,
Speaker 2: And Robert Redford and Meryl Street. Yeah, it doesn't get
Speaker 2: better than that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is that's amazing. It's amazing that. And we've
Speaker 1: had lots of people who have come on the show
Speaker 1: and spoken about why their favorite films. And sometimes it
Speaker 1: is just because it's it's awesome, you know, but there
Speaker 1: has been a handful of times where people have been
Speaker 1: able to pinpoint the influence a movie has had. So
Speaker 1: for you to nominate Out of Africa as a life
Speaker 1: changing thing in a way where it opened the door
Speaker 1: to a part of the world that you'd never considered
Speaker 1: going to and you ended up living there for half
Speaker 1: a decade.
Speaker 2: Yeah, then I went to Karen Blixen's house. I ended
Speaker 2: up going to her house, the person who wrote it,
Speaker 2: you know, the book, and because it is it's an
Speaker 2: autobiography really, and I went to her house. Yeah, it
Speaker 2: was a It was a moment in my life where
Speaker 2: I watched that movie and it bumped me into a
Speaker 2: different direction. Now you could argue for me the same
Speaker 2: thing when Greece came out. I didn't put it because
Speaker 2: I'm embarrassed to put it down on the list, but
Speaker 2: on this on the exact same note, Greece, on some
Speaker 2: kind of subconscious level, dramatically changed my life. I remember
Speaker 2: I watched that and knew very little. I wasn't the Hogan,
Speaker 2: you know in Canada. I wasn't like Paul Hogan watching Crocodilder.
Speaker 2: I saw Greece, and I saw living in John and
Speaker 2: I remember thinking Australia like it was the first time
Speaker 2: the flag was placed in my head. And you know,
Speaker 2: all the cliches and stereotypes that came with her character,
Speaker 2: but it was the first time that the flag was
Speaker 2: placed in my head. That helium might be an interesting
Speaker 2: place for me to visit on my journey as a
Speaker 2: kid who's hiding away in the cinema, you know, trying
Speaker 2: to escape my volatile home life in the dark room,
Speaker 2: trying to be alone with other people. I watched That
Speaker 2: seven times. That and Empire Striped Back. I watched Greece
Speaker 2: seven times. My grandma used to clean the floors. And
Speaker 2: it was seventy five cents to get into the cinema,
Speaker 2: and my grandma used to clean the floors. So whenever
Speaker 2: she worked the weekend she worked, she would wedge the
Speaker 2: bottom door of the exit and I would sneak around,
Speaker 2: go in through the wedge door and just sit basically
Speaker 2: in the front row and just crouch and I would
Speaker 2: watch whatever it would come up. And I remember I
Speaker 2: was targeting Greece like an empire strikes back, but I
Speaker 2: was targeting Greece. I was like, Okay, I want to
Speaker 2: see this, Grandma, can you wedge it for these showings?
Speaker 2: And she would try her best.
Speaker 1: Oh, I love that story. Can you wedge it? Grandma?
Speaker 1: I mean that's a chatter in your memo. Ass some
Speaker 1: way that that is. That is amazing. Where I thought
Speaker 1: you were going with Greece was I mean Greece kind
Speaker 1: of and I love Greece. Greece would be in my
Speaker 1: top ten as far as like and it's maybe one
Speaker 1: of the films I've seen, you know that Star Wars
Speaker 1: and the Sound of Music, as far as maybe the
Speaker 1: films I've seen the most. Funnily enough, I don't put
Speaker 1: three those three films in my top three, but they're
Speaker 1: they're definitely my top ten. And I thought where you
Speaker 1: were going with Greece was it opened this idea of
Speaker 1: American high schools, because that's what it did for me.
Speaker 1: I was like, American high schools seem kind of fun,
Speaker 1: even though you know, you actually think about there's a
Speaker 1: whole lot of shit going on that's not fun in
Speaker 1: that film, and most American high schools, but there's this
Speaker 1: we we did have this in Australia. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: how different Canadian schools were, but the way the cafeterias worked.
Speaker 1: Became a little bit obsessed with the way American high
Speaker 1: schools function, and the and the clicks and the and
Speaker 1: the cafeterias and the you know, the cheerleaders and you
Speaker 1: know that, the the football teams and I don't know,
Speaker 1: it was something even like the yeah, the Lethermon jackets
Speaker 1: and stuff. It was there's something about the red caps
Speaker 1: that they alway seemed to drink out of at parties.
Speaker 1: You know, there's something that that seemed really cool, even
Speaker 1: though as an adult you kind of a lot of
Speaker 1: those things aren't cool. There's I think, you know, clicks
Speaker 1: aren't cool. You know, like eating ship food off a
Speaker 1: tray is not cool. But yeah, it was one of
Speaker 1: those things. And I think I think Greece was probably
Speaker 1: the first one I saw which I thought American high
Speaker 1: schools yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well that is the difference, right, so that in
Speaker 2: Australia you would look to that and look to that
Speaker 2: with interest. Canada you look to that with disdain. Not
Speaker 2: because it's bad, but just because it's American. Yeah. So no,
Speaker 2: I gravitated towards Oliving John and that and that I'd
Speaker 2: never seen crocodile dundee. So I had no idea what
Speaker 2: everyone else was talking about in Canada because that's the
Speaker 2: only thing they knew of when it came to Australia,
Speaker 2: and that nothing else. Zero and I lived in Sydney,
Speaker 2: Nova Scotia, Canada. The Arc of life, right, and I
Speaker 2: lived twenty twenty six years in Sydney, Australia, But all
Speaker 2: on my flag was her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you obviously sadly passed away this year? Did
Speaker 1: you ever meet her?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: It would have been a pretty amazing thing to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, too shy, you know, you know who I am,
Speaker 2: right too, in like I would never go out of
Speaker 2: my way to track her down. Yeah, but I followed her,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like I kind of tracked
Speaker 2: what she did. And you know, not that she would
Speaker 2: care that she had an influence in my life, but
Speaker 2: definitely bumped me, you know, she definitely bumped me on
Speaker 2: a track, just like Meryl Street bumped me on the
Speaker 2: track for Africa. She bought me on that track for Australia.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing. I got to meete her a few
Speaker 1: times and she was so lovely, as lovely as you
Speaker 1: would possibly want. And if you had told her that story,
Speaker 1: she would have would have touched her. I'm absolutely sure
Speaker 1: of it. Gardenstite is a wonderful film, an indie film
Speaker 1: Zach Braff and Natalie Portman.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did not so I okay. So the plot
Speaker 2: is a very is a parallel plot to my life.
Speaker 2: You know, boy with not much, you know, goes off
Speaker 2: to the world and then ends up having to come
Speaker 2: home to In my case, it was kind of reversed
Speaker 2: because my mother was an addict, so I was. My
Speaker 2: father was depressed, so I was kind of living. I
Speaker 2: was coming home to that world. And I'll never forget
Speaker 2: seen and this is the reason. And it's a total
Speaker 2: emotional thing. It's nothing to do with what it was
Speaker 2: actually about, because I can't quite remember the details of it.
Speaker 2: When he's standing on the van in the hole and
Speaker 2: he screams and he just screams and screams and screams
Speaker 2: and is crying. I was. Every time I see that,
Speaker 2: I cry, And so that puts it in my top
Speaker 2: three and I know it's a recent film, it's an
Speaker 2: indie film, but and Zach Braf is not everyone's cup
Speaker 2: of tea. But for some reason this it's beautifully shocked
Speaker 2: as well. And for some reason this that it moved me.
Speaker 1: So is that is that? Is that like that moment
Speaker 1: is at the moment that moment puts it in your
Speaker 1: top three? Or like is it just ously enjoyed the
Speaker 1: entire film? And I forgot God, I remember seeing when
Speaker 1: it came out and I really enjoyed it, and I
Speaker 1: remember buying on DVD, but I think I've only watched
Speaker 1: it maybe once since then, and and I would even
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, forget exactly what it was about.
Speaker 1: Like you described it briefly about you know, him having
Speaker 1: to come back and things having worked out. I remember
Speaker 1: Nalie Portman wearing headphones in a waiting room. I remember
Speaker 1: that scene you're talking about, and I remember really enjoying it,
Speaker 1: and then I'm talking about it. I really would like
Speaker 1: to go back and watch it soon. But is it
Speaker 1: one of those things where that scene that you speaker
Speaker 1: with the yelling on the van elevates it to a
Speaker 1: point where it's like, yeah, this is this is my
Speaker 1: top three.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think for me, I'm drawn to three kind
Speaker 2: of types of movies. One is escapist as best I can,
Speaker 2: like Star Wars is the ultimate example for me. Yeah,
Speaker 2: just leaving the Planet. I'm drawn to As I mentioned,
Speaker 2: love stories. I think it's to deal with my own
Speaker 2: issues with intimacy. So I like to watch other people
Speaker 2: play it out and wish I was then. So I've
Speaker 2: drawn to that that as well. But I'm also drawn
Speaker 2: to stories that in some way parallel my own life
Speaker 2: and experience. And that was one of the first ones
Speaker 2: that I watched that was a kind of more contemporary
Speaker 2: film that I went, it's something. I went, that's me.
Speaker 2: That sounds incredibly narcissistic, but I watched it and went,
Speaker 2: that's kind of my life in a way, not exactly
Speaker 2: kind of, but it was. And so I related to that.
Speaker 2: And then when we hit that moment came screaming on
Speaker 2: the top in the rain and crying and she's holding him.
Speaker 2: I don't know, it just it just moved me. And
Speaker 2: so when you said what are your top three films,
Speaker 2: I didn't overly think it. I just went, what are
Speaker 2: the films that have really moved me? And for some
Speaker 2: reason that one did.
Speaker 1: And that's what you're trying to do as a writer
Speaker 1: and the director then and the actors are trying to
Speaker 1: create something where the audience can see themselves somewhere in
Speaker 1: that film. And I think that's that's a very powerful thing.
Speaker 1: And that's what I think everyone's trying to achieve when
Speaker 1: they said that to make a film. So I love
Speaker 1: I love all those three films. About we discussing all
Speaker 1: those three films with you? Excellent choices. Absolutely, let's get
Speaker 1: into it. This is a massive film. This is right
Speaker 1: up there. It is a much loved film. Like I said,
Speaker 1: number one on IMDb's all time. It was the most
Speaker 1: highest rented video of nineteen ninety five, which which kind
Speaker 1: of helped after The Flopper kind of more people saw
Speaker 1: it on video and they and now streaming, I guess,
Speaker 1: and they sort of cinema opponents and initial release, it
Speaker 1: is the most replayed film on American TV still to
Speaker 1: this day. Todd Samson, did you enjoy Frank Darabout's show
Speaker 1: Shack Redemption, based in a book by Stephen King?
Speaker 2: It was wonderful and mesmerizing, Yes, And it was it
Speaker 2: the fact that it was so good made me feel
Speaker 2: so self conscious that I hadn't seen it, and as
Speaker 2: someone who makes films right now for a living, I
Speaker 2: tend to I struggled to stop looking at the how
Speaker 2: you know, how things are done in the pacing and
Speaker 2: the music and the shots and where they're wide or
Speaker 2: they're clothes, where they you know. But with this film
Speaker 2: you you get all of that. But the genius of
Speaker 2: the director, in my mind, is that he sets this
Speaker 2: pacing in a kind of closed space, so he lets
Speaker 2: the characters lure you into their lives. He does a
Speaker 2: few reversals, so you don't quite know where you're going,
Speaker 2: but it feels like you're in a box with them,
Speaker 2: and I love that intimacy. And you think it's two
Speaker 2: and a half hours or whatever it was, so when
Speaker 2: the time's over, you're like, wow, I just did twenty
Speaker 2: years in two and a half hours, because it's a
Speaker 2: twenty year span of their lives, you know, it's and
Speaker 2: everything from the the fact that the main character, Tim
Speaker 2: Robins is not the main character, the way he did
Speaker 2: that by using Morgan Freeman to narrate. The reason we
Speaker 2: associate and like Tim or Andy's because of Morgan and
Speaker 2: his interpretation of that world, which I thought, you got
Speaker 2: two outstanding actors, but the way they used more Morgan Freeman,
Speaker 2: I thought, and and again the sparsness of it. So
Speaker 2: they mute all the colors, it's all gray, and then
Speaker 2: music wise they kind of strip. They use some great
Speaker 2: musical moments, but the majority of the music is that
Speaker 2: sort of soothing, melodic voice of Morgan Freeman, which holds
Speaker 2: you for two hours easily. Yeah, sensational film.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're right about feeling like you're in there,
Speaker 1: and the claustrophobia of it and the colors, the grayness
Speaker 1: of shaw Shank because every times have you noticed this
Speaker 1: is probably something you know they one notice in their
Speaker 1: second or third viewing. But when you whenever you see
Speaker 1: out outside of shaw Shanks, sometimes you're shooting from chaw Shank.
Speaker 1: But when a good example is when Andy's being held
Speaker 1: over the ledge when they're before they start drinking beers
Speaker 1: on it. And we'll get through that scene soon. But
Speaker 1: it's always green grass on the other side. Yes, it's
Speaker 1: always great. The grass is always greener, and it's just
Speaker 1: such a beautiful little and there's lots of those little
Speaker 1: touches or all the way through well, it's talk about
Speaker 1: like when we when we first meet Andy obviously, and
Speaker 1: I think also it's it's it's clever that they're going
Speaker 1: to get into it in a pretty kind of juicy
Speaker 1: kind of way. There's this guy who's you know, uhasically
Speaker 1: basically being charged with double murder. He's you know that
Speaker 1: his wife's having sex with the golf pro. It's you know,
Speaker 1: it grabs your attention, even though it's not necessarily you know,
Speaker 1: cut like really fast, and it's not like over the top,
Speaker 1: and it's it's you are drawn in. You are drawn in.
Speaker 1: You can go, Okay, this is is this our protagonist?
Speaker 1: Is this somebody who's do you think Andy was was guilty?
Speaker 1: You think possibly is? You know, because in a way,
Speaker 1: when I mean when I first watched it, in the
Speaker 1: first few times I watched it, I was always like, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: maybe he is guilty, Like and then I the more
Speaker 1: I watched it, and in the odder I get I
Speaker 1: kind of see the reasons why he wouldn't be guilty,
Speaker 1: not just from a story point of view, but also
Speaker 1: there's things like you know, like yes that they say
Speaker 1: they're was fingerprints on the on the on the the
Speaker 1: bottle of bourbon that was left behind, and then and
Speaker 1: the bullet casings. But there was no book. There's no
Speaker 1: fingerprints on the actual crime like that were in the
Speaker 1: you know, in the cabin where they were killed. There
Speaker 1: were no fingerprints on door handles or anything like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that'surely that would have come out. There's no footprints leading
Speaker 1: from the car to the you know, to the cabin.
Speaker 1: There's things like that. You're going to go, well, come on, Lauries,
Speaker 1: do your jobs.
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean it's deceptive, isn't it. So the judge
Speaker 2: sets them up. So the judge so again unfortunately think
Speaker 2: thinking about the what As someone who makes films, I
Speaker 2: knew there would be an arc for him, But what
Speaker 2: I thought was deceptive was redemption. So you immediately think, Okay,
Speaker 2: he did it, and he's going to reneem himself in
Speaker 2: the film. But it's completely not what's about to happen.
Speaker 2: And I kind of had a hint to that obviously
Speaker 2: when he just went the Like the first lines that
Speaker 2: come onto the film are the judge, you know, condemning
Speaker 2: it and saying, you seem like a cold hearted, you know,
Speaker 2: kill it. Basically, that's what the judge says, to him,
Speaker 2: and what the restraint of Tim Robbins in the film
Speaker 2: is incredible, and what you don't know at that moment,
Speaker 2: just that sort of introverted, thoughtful, shy, restrained character would
Speaker 2: be the tone of the whole film. You don't know
Speaker 2: that then, and then you realize that he himself is
Speaker 2: a kind of in his own way, a kind of
Speaker 2: metaphor for the filmmakers the whole film, you know, because
Speaker 2: it all existed like that in the gray world, in
Speaker 2: a subtle world, and you know, every once in a
Speaker 2: while there'll be some sharp moments like the sisters and
Speaker 2: rape or abuse, but the majority of the time you're
Speaker 2: sort of just following this character who is not really
Speaker 2: coming out. He's staying in and so you normally think
Speaker 2: in an arc he's going to come out and be
Speaker 2: something else. He doesn't really, He still stays within his comfines. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I had a feeling he was going to be
Speaker 2: innocent because I thought, Okay, there's going to be an arc.
Speaker 2: They started so hard that clearly you know that can't
Speaker 2: be it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you still there is still an element of, well,
Speaker 1: this is the little guy who was planning on killing
Speaker 1: his wife. You know what I mean, So it's still
Speaker 1: pretty murky. Like you know, we spoke a lot about
Speaker 1: seventies films and how they're more comfortable in making their
Speaker 1: protagonists a bit grayer, you know, and playing in those
Speaker 1: gray areas of their own moral codes. With films these days,
Speaker 1: you tend to have even though the rise of the
Speaker 1: anti hero, you know, has certainly been refreshing, but they
Speaker 1: tend to keep the protagonists in pretty clear spaces, even
Speaker 1: if they if they make him murky early on, they
Speaker 1: always make sure it's it's clear that that was we
Speaker 1: were mistaken earlier, where where the fact is Andy was
Speaker 1: in a car loading a gun, preparing to kill his
Speaker 1: wife and her lover, and that is irrefutable.
Speaker 2: Yes, so and then and that that seat of doubt
Speaker 2: has placed early, you know, and that's how it all.
Speaker 2: And so you are thinking, and when he shows up
Speaker 2: at the prison and he's stunk hold, you start to
Speaker 2: think stone Kong killer. You know, you don't think that
Speaker 2: there's anything positive in his nature. You think that, okay, wait,
Speaker 2: now you feel for him when he comes through. But
Speaker 2: I mean, the whole thing with they're taking bets on
Speaker 2: who's going to crack first is just incredible.
Speaker 1: Like it's as soon as I saw a character called
Speaker 1: feed Ass or something, I thought it's gonna be hum.
Speaker 1: He's gonna of course, the fat guy's going to break first.
Speaker 1: What always happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, his arrival as a hero. I think. I just
Speaker 2: love the switcher room, Like I love that he is
Speaker 2: the protagonist. But Red, you could argue, is this big
Speaker 2: or bigger a character? In fact? In fact, Andy's character
Speaker 2: is told through him, you know, so it's his interpretation
Speaker 2: of it. I do think, you know, Morgan Freeman got
Speaker 2: nominated for Best Sporting Actor and Tim Brumms didn't, And
Speaker 2: I do think there's a bit of a crime in
Speaker 2: that because it was the culmination of the two of
Speaker 2: them that made that film. But I sort of get,
Speaker 2: I sort of get how Morgan Freeman would get disproportionate
Speaker 2: amount of accolades and recognition for that film because of
Speaker 2: the way the director twisted the storytelling you and.
Speaker 1: What did you? Yeah, let's away the friendship because this
Speaker 1: is what I think. It's. White people love this film,
Speaker 1: you know, And I was kind of thinking about going
Speaker 1: something we talk a lot about is you know, comedy
Speaker 1: and drama, and is it a comedy or is the drum.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that anybody says Shaw Shanks a comedy
Speaker 1: at all, but in fact it's it doesn't have many
Speaker 1: laughs in it at all. But what it does to have,
Speaker 1: I think is an ability to make you smile. Well,
Speaker 1: I think I find myself I smile a lot when
Speaker 1: I'm watching Shawshank. I'm not sure if I have a laugh,
Speaker 1: but I smile a lot. And that's we don't really
Speaker 1: talk about that. You know. It's either make them laugh
Speaker 1: or make them cry, you know. And I think that
Speaker 1: a film that is content in making you smile is
Speaker 1: it's a very powerful thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean there's a want in friendship in general
Speaker 2: that we all want, you know, and the fact that
Speaker 2: that developed over hardship. And but there's a weird distance
Speaker 2: that Morgan had from him because of the way he
Speaker 2: was narrating it. At times I felt that he wasn't
Speaker 2: being kind of a true friend to him, for example
Speaker 2: with the sisters, and you know, Morgan doesn't offer any
Speaker 2: protection at all. And Morgan Freeman or Red is the
Speaker 2: fixer of the prison, so he can't can and make
Speaker 2: things happen and can do things with cigarettes for people.
Speaker 2: He can do, but he doesn't do this. It is
Speaker 2: almost as though he lets the you know, the inevitable
Speaker 2: rape or you know, abuse, He narrates it and then
Speaker 2: it kind of happens, so that there is an interesting
Speaker 2: dynamic from the director's point of view where his best
Speaker 2: friend is the narrator of the film, which creates a
Speaker 2: little bit of a distance, where in most films that's
Speaker 2: not the case. Most buddy films, there together completely, one's
Speaker 2: not commenting necessarily on the other. They're in that journey together. Yeah,
Speaker 2: this had that weird distance that that I liked.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed the one thing I say about the voice over,
Speaker 1: which I hadn't I hadn't really clocked. And this is
Speaker 1: the wonderful thing about doing this podcast is you watch
Speaker 1: a film knowing that you're going to talk about it.
Speaker 1: So I tend to watch it a little differently as
Speaker 1: and I've seen this movie many many times, I'm not
Speaker 1: completely sure the voiceover, the way he talks, and the
Speaker 1: almost the poetry, the way he talks matches up completely
Speaker 1: with the character that we've met at Shawshanky. He almost
Speaker 1: is awesome. Wells you know or when Oscar wild yes,
Speaker 1: you know, which you don't really hear red talk like
Speaker 1: that is more plain speaking than that, And it's never
Speaker 1: bothered me. It doesn't even bother me now. But I
Speaker 1: did notice it this time around.
Speaker 2: Yes, because as you know, someone who makes films, you know,
Speaker 2: there's the narration of the film that would have been written,
Speaker 2: and then there's the character lines of the film. Ye,
Speaker 2: and he smashed both into one and you can clearly
Speaker 2: see them as they're separating. But with that said, Morgan
Speaker 2: Freeman did play convincingly a kind of father figure role
Speaker 2: for everyone. Like if you notice the framing, he was
Speaker 2: almost inevitably framed in the middle. He almost inevitably framed
Speaker 2: with people around him, I mean part of the framing.
Speaker 2: As you know, the major issue that that film had
Speaker 2: was Tim Robins height. Yes, fine, you know, it's like
Speaker 2: it's the reverse of Tom Cruise movies, you know, where
Speaker 2: they're recruiting small people from around the world. They couldn't
Speaker 2: get tall people to matter.
Speaker 1: But I was gonna make that exact point is why
Speaker 1: you'd never seen Tim Robins and Tom Cruise act in
Speaker 1: the same movie, Like it will never happen. And if
Speaker 1: you go back and watch it, and I encourage you
Speaker 1: check it out, Tim Robbins is almost always either crouching
Speaker 1: down or leaning over, you know, coming out from behind
Speaker 1: Morgan Freeman when they're watching Rita Hayworth, you know, and
Speaker 1: it's it's it's very cleverly done because he is he is.
Speaker 1: When they line up with when they all line up
Speaker 1: with the scene that we played before, that's one time
Speaker 1: where you can see how tall Tim robbers he's compared
Speaker 1: to the other prisoners.
Speaker 2: So so on that point that you make about the
Speaker 2: disconnects between the sort of sophistication of poetic nature or
Speaker 2: the writing of the narration of the film versus the
Speaker 2: actual character. Where I think Morgan Freeman gets away with
Speaker 2: it is the melodic, soothing tone of his voice. He
Speaker 2: could say anything and it will have that sort of
Speaker 2: poetic sound. And he does speak like that in his
Speaker 2: character as well, you know, not just a narration like
Speaker 2: it's just not as sophisticated, but it's the same feel,
Speaker 2: that sort of that sort of moving voice that he has.
Speaker 2: You know that it's I mean, it's an exceptional tool.
Speaker 1: Oh, it is a tool. So Frank dearbon he he
Speaker 1: this is one of his first films. I think I
Speaker 1: think he made a horror film called Buried Alive. He
Speaker 1: done some work on I Think the Fly Too and
Speaker 1: some other and he was keen to get out of
Speaker 1: horror films. He made a short film called The Woman
Speaker 1: in the Room, which is based on Stephen king short story,
Speaker 1: and so that's how he gets in it with Stephen King.
Speaker 1: So he was keen to get away from horror. And
Speaker 1: and the character of Red in the book is he's white.
Speaker 1: He's an Irish, old, Irish white guy like Clint Eastward
Speaker 1: is up for this role Paul Newman Redford. And that's
Speaker 1: why there's that great, uh, great line in the movie
Speaker 1: why do they call you Red? And he goes, because
Speaker 1: I'm Irish, And it's it's it's played as a joke.
Speaker 1: It's it's lovely because it works even if you don't
Speaker 1: know that something. Well I only knew that stuff that yesterday,
Speaker 1: but it's it is brilliant. But Frank daryline he would watch.
Speaker 1: He was he was nervous about it. So he would
Speaker 1: watch Goodfellas every Sunday just to kind of not only
Speaker 1: from it an aesthetic point of view, but more so
Speaker 1: with the voiceover, because that is also one of the
Speaker 1: great voiceover films of all time good Fellas, and so
Speaker 1: he would watch that just to make sure that he
Speaker 1: was doing the right things and on the right track.
Speaker 1: And you can argue that those two films, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe even Apocalypse now that you mentioned it earlier, three
Speaker 1: of the great narrated films.
Speaker 2: You just raise something now that I never thought. I
Speaker 2: did not think about, but now sort of My fourth
Speaker 2: reason for having never seen this film is my mom
Speaker 2: used to watch horrific horror movies like every night as
Speaker 2: her form of escapers, you know. And so I would
Speaker 2: be in my bedroom and I will be listening to
Speaker 2: Chainsaw Massacre and I'm into the horror and UNI any
Speaker 2: any butcher chop slice. So I have a real version
Speaker 2: of horror movies I don't get the idea of because
Speaker 2: from the brains, respect active, what you see, your brain experiences.
Speaker 2: So if you're seeing death, violence, and you know, on horror,
Speaker 2: your brain is in its sympathetic response. It's responding to it.
Speaker 2: That's why people love it. Right you're you are really
Speaker 2: feeling it. So I've had a block on horror, and
Speaker 2: I now that you say that. When I think back,
Speaker 2: Stephen King probably was like a red flag to me, Like,
Speaker 2: as soon as I read it was a Stephen King film,
Speaker 2: it comes with all the you know, all the negativity
Speaker 2: and all that stuff, the horror, I just blocked it
Speaker 2: and said, I'm not watching that.
Speaker 1: That's so interesting. Because Castle Rock, the distributor, they they
Speaker 1: made sure Stephen King was not on the poster that
Speaker 1: they did. They made no effort to kind of tie
Speaker 1: it to Stephen King. Obviously when it comes out, you know,
Speaker 1: reviews and and and you know articles mentioned that because
Speaker 1: it's not their job to hide that fact. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think at the time the actors were almost told
Speaker 1: don't don't tie to Stephen King.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 1: They didn't have Stephen King to do any publicity for it.
Speaker 1: Like I said, not on the poster. Usually, you know,
Speaker 1: somebody who's huge Stephen King would have based on a
Speaker 1: novel by Stephen King. None of that, none of that.
Speaker 1: And it was it was because they did not want
Speaker 1: for that exact reason for people to think that this
Speaker 1: is a horror film. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and when you sha shank Redemption could have like
Speaker 2: shanks cutting people open and slicing and dicing people, it
Speaker 2: could be a Stephen King film. Anyway, that was my
Speaker 2: mistake for not watching it, damn you, Stephen King.
Speaker 1: Well, now we have this glorious moment and this conversation.
Speaker 1: Now to thank seven King four. The what's also great
Speaker 1: about Red and Andy. They're very it's very clever, and
Speaker 1: it's very subtle. But they are quite opposite men, you know,
Speaker 1: not not necessarily in every way, but they are you know. One,
Speaker 1: you know, it's ready seen, you know, admits that he's
Speaker 1: the only the only guilty man in shaw Shank because
Speaker 1: everyone's apparently innocent. And then we find out that Andy
Speaker 1: actually is probably the only innocent man in shaw Shank,
Speaker 1: you know. And and the big, the biggest thing is
Speaker 1: that they the Hope thing, which is what this movie
Speaker 1: is about one.
Speaker 2: And which is what I loved about it.
Speaker 3: Yes, there's something inside that they can't get to it,
Speaker 3: they can't touch.
Speaker 6: It's yours.
Speaker 2: I'm talking about.
Speaker 7: Hope.
Speaker 2: Hope.
Speaker 8: I'm gonna tell you some of my friend. Hope is
Speaker 8: a dangerous thing. Hope and drab a man in the scene.
Speaker 8: It's got no use.
Speaker 7: On the other side, I'm better get used to that.
Speaker 6: Idea, like Approx did.
Speaker 2: So beyond them making the technical aspect of the film,
Speaker 2: which I love watching, you know, the pacing and the
Speaker 2: music and the grade and the you know, the characters,
Speaker 2: the theme of hope, and the fact that you have
Speaker 2: a buddy film where people are coming out of two
Speaker 2: different viewpoints. You know, on the one side, you've got
Speaker 2: Morgan Freeman who sees hope is something to be scared of,
Speaker 2: that that hope can, as he says, drive you insane
Speaker 2: when you're in prison. You know that it's a bad thing.
Speaker 2: And then you got Andy or Tim Robbins coming in
Speaker 2: saying hope is everything you know and without it, you're gone.
Speaker 2: And then possibly my favorite part of the film had
Speaker 2: nothing to do with any of those characters, was it Brooks. Yeah,
Speaker 2: James Wmyer like like, because he then encapsulates both ends
Speaker 2: of the hope spectrum because on the one hand, he
Speaker 2: gets released and so he has all of it in
Speaker 2: front of him, and on the other hand, he has
Speaker 2: none of it.
Speaker 1: And it's it's so important because this movie is also
Speaker 1: about what institutionalizing men will do. When you put men
Speaker 1: in the cage and you strip them of hope. What
Speaker 1: happens and Brooks serves the great wait, you think for
Speaker 1: the movie because it's a it's a it's an example
Speaker 1: that we say, what happens when somebody loses hope and
Speaker 1: has no hope. Let's have it to listen at them
Speaker 1: talking about Brooks being institutionalized.
Speaker 7: But I'm telling you, these walls are funny, rath to
Speaker 7: hate them.
Speaker 2: And you get used to.
Speaker 7: Them, enough time passes, you get so you'll depend on
Speaker 7: as institutionalized shit you can never get like that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, So that when they've been here as long as
Speaker 6: book says, God damn.
Speaker 7: Right, they're sending you here for life. That's exactly what
Speaker 7: they take part of counts anyway.
Speaker 1: So that's the same like this is when they worried
Speaker 1: about Andy, but it's in the shadow of Brooks. So
Speaker 1: that's that's why it's important that that happens, because they
Speaker 1: do a really good job and we've got to touch
Speaker 1: on it the flour of like you know, the you know,
Speaker 1: they're not having enough doubt that maybe maybe Andy is
Speaker 1: guilty and and and then maybe he will later on,
Speaker 1: maybe he will not make it through, maybe he will
Speaker 1: take his own life, you know, And they do a
Speaker 1: really good job of going even though there's a part
Speaker 1: of our brain that probably knows it doesn't but it's
Speaker 1: probably not going to happen because this is a movie
Speaker 1: and they're really going to have Andy kill himself. But
Speaker 1: they do a good job of going to like taking
Speaker 1: you to the edge of thinking yeah, maybe maybe yeah.
Speaker 2: But what jumped out at me in that scene, and
Speaker 2: it was the same thing that jumped out at me
Speaker 2: when Morgan Freeman or Read was released, was the other
Speaker 2: sub theme that's going on in this is fear and
Speaker 2: the line both lines jumped out at me hugely in
Speaker 2: Brooks a scene, Brooks says I'm just tired of being afraid,
Speaker 2: and then exact same thing happens to Morgan Freeman. He says,
Speaker 2: I'm just tired. I'm sick of being afraid, and the
Speaker 2: whole notion that they're afraid on the outside but not
Speaker 2: on the inside, where for most people, including me, have
Speaker 2: this sort of deep innate fear of prison. You know,
Speaker 2: all this sort of containment and this, all the negative
Speaker 2: things you've seen, everything that would been conditioned to believe,
Speaker 2: but their greatest fear was just existing on the outside.
Speaker 2: I mean, that just blew my mind. I was like,
Speaker 2: as soon as I heard them both say the same line,
Speaker 2: I thought, Wow, there's another sub theme about because we
Speaker 2: get it the obvious fear with the Sisters and the
Speaker 2: raids and you know, and bad things are going to happen,
Speaker 2: But that level of fear, this sort of existential fear
Speaker 2: of existence in the real world once your humanity has
Speaker 2: been stripped from you, is a really big concept. You
Speaker 2: know that you're just going whoa and and and then
Speaker 2: you know, and then of course the suicide, and then
Speaker 2: and then the misdirection of Morgan Freeman's potential suicide as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's it's it's so and watching
Speaker 1: it again and I haven't so many times, but knowing
Speaker 1: that I was going to talk about it, and there's
Speaker 1: things that you just you know, and this is how
Speaker 1: you're supposed to watch films. You're supposed to in a
Speaker 1: way just let things wash over you and that they'll
Speaker 1: they'll work away in a way that you don't maybe
Speaker 1: would never have to articulate. But the way they play
Speaker 1: with hope and that you know, I can see now
Speaker 1: why and even with the sisters, you know why that's
Speaker 1: important because yeah, that's like a visceral kind of fear
Speaker 1: that they have. But then there's all this other underlying
Speaker 1: fear that has to play out more slowly, you know,
Speaker 1: and and it's it's it's so beautiful and they have
Speaker 1: to you know, they have to break Andy, you know,
Speaker 1: both physically and mentally. And it's not just for the story,
Speaker 1: but it's also for the theme, you know, the impact
Speaker 1: of being institutionalized, and that any an he needs to
Speaker 1: keep hopeless, you know, because what does It's the one
Speaker 1: thing Andy has that Brooks never had. And then so
Speaker 1: if we consider that Andy has hope and Brooks lost hope,
Speaker 1: it puts Red right in the middle of that. Well,
Speaker 1: isn't it the fork in the road. He's either gonna
Speaker 1: you don't give up on hope and we know how
Speaker 1: that ends with Brooks, or he's going to choose choose
Speaker 1: hope and we don't know what was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you think he leans more towards Brooks, which
Speaker 2: was the reason that they introduced Brooks, right, because you're going, okay, well,
Speaker 2: he's also institutionalized. In that conversation where they're sitting there,
Speaker 2: Red and Andy speaking, and that's when they have the
Speaker 2: whole conversation, that's when you really realize that these people
Speaker 2: are on the opposite sides of that fence. But what
Speaker 2: the sort of mind blowing thing for me with that
Speaker 2: was that Brooks was happy on the inside.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like, so his loss of hope happened on the outside.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, like because.
Speaker 2: His whole character was positive. He had a friend, he
Speaker 2: had the birds, he was like smiling, he was delivering books,
Speaker 2: he had purpose, he had he was happy.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, you could say, oh, you know, his life was
Speaker 2: stripped away from him, but you can also say that
Speaker 2: he was given a life in there that he was
Speaker 2: happy with. It was his release where he lost hope.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And of course you are now foreshadowing to what happens
Speaker 2: to Andy, you know when when in his release?
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you think, oh, we'll come back to that. Actually,
Speaker 1: I spoke about they every film you need to take
Speaker 1: you know, your your hero, even though he said, I
Speaker 1: think I think you're right in the in the this
Speaker 1: is really red story in a way, but they do
Speaker 1: need to take Andy. They need to try to break him,
Speaker 1: you know, mentally, emotionally that you need to put your
Speaker 1: character at rock bottom. And and and they did this
Speaker 1: in such a fucking great clever way. And I want
Speaker 1: to walk through a few sick and says of how
Speaker 1: this happens when we when Tommy arrives at Shortshank and
Speaker 1: is a young hot shot, and he teaches him how
Speaker 1: to read, and then it.
Speaker 2: Was originally going to be Brad Pitt by the way, Yes, yes,
Speaker 2: which is remarkable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's an amazing casting. Will come back
Speaker 1: to that. This is Tommy joining some dots here, and
Speaker 1: then we go into the confession made by a former
Speaker 1: inmate one time bus and tables at a country club.
Speaker 8: So he says, I got me this job one time
Speaker 8: bus and tables at a country club so I could
Speaker 8: case all of these big rich pricks that come in.
Speaker 1: So I pick up this game.
Speaker 6: Going one night in do his place.
Speaker 4: He wakes up.
Speaker 6: Gives me shipped.
Speaker 1: So I killed it.
Speaker 2: Him in this tasty pitch he was with.
Speaker 1: It's the best part.
Speaker 2: She's fucking this pricksy golf property there.
Speaker 5: It's some other.
Speaker 6: Guys, some hotshot banker, and he's the one they'd been.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's I'll tell you what. I forget the
Speaker 1: actor's name, but he makes the most of that for
Speaker 1: it is like you completely believe that he is telling
Speaker 1: the truth in that moment. So so this happens. It
Speaker 1: gives Andy hope, It gives us all hope, Ah, this
Speaker 1: is this is going to this is what he needed.
Speaker 1: He's the only as a man who's jaw shank. And
Speaker 1: then so they take it to the warden, who we
Speaker 1: have haven't spoken about him. We'll speak more about him.
Speaker 1: Warden Norton played by Bob Gunton. Both him and Red
Speaker 1: Guard to him and with the good news.
Speaker 4: It's obvious this fellow Williams is impressed with you. He
Speaker 4: hears your tailor woe and quite naturally wants to cheer
Speaker 4: you up. He's young, not terribly bright, not surprising. He
Speaker 4: wouldn't know what a state he puts you in.
Speaker 2: Sir.
Speaker 9: He's telling the truth.
Speaker 4: But let's say for the moment this blatch does exist.
Speaker 4: You think he just fall to his knees and cried, Yes,
Speaker 4: I did it.
Speaker 5: I confess.
Speaker 4: Oh, by the way, had a life term to my sentence.
Speaker 10: You know that wouldn't matter.
Speaker 3: With Tommy's testimony, I can get a new trial.
Speaker 6: And that's assuming latches.
Speaker 4: Even still, there chances are excellent he'd be released by now.
Speaker 6: Well, they'd have his last known address, names of relatives.
Speaker 3: Is it a chance, isn't it?
Speaker 9: Can't you be some tooth? What did you call me
Speaker 9: a tooth?
Speaker 3: Is it deliberate?
Speaker 1: Son?
Speaker 6: You'll forget yourself.
Speaker 3: The country club will have his old time cards records
Speaker 3: W two's with his name of Rye.
Speaker 4: If you want to indulge this fantasy, that's your business,
Speaker 4: don't make it mine.
Speaker 5: This meeting is over, sir.
Speaker 3: If I were to ever get out, I would never
Speaker 3: mention what goes on in here. I'd be just as
Speaker 3: indictable as you for wondering that money.
Speaker 6: Don't you ever mention money to me again?
Speaker 4: You sorry, son of a bitch.
Speaker 5: Not in this office, not anywhere. Get in here now.
Speaker 3: Let's just try to set your mind at his that's all.
Speaker 5: Sir, solitary a month?
Speaker 9: Yes, what's the matter with you?
Speaker 5: Get him out of here?
Speaker 4: Somebody says to get out, but you see that's.
Speaker 3: Understand get.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's so brilliant, the rollercoaster you're going
Speaker 1: on as an audience man. But when you think when
Speaker 1: Tommy comes and says, oh no, he's he's innocent, and
Speaker 1: you believe said we believe that he's in that that
Speaker 1: that that prison night, and then for this to happen,
Speaker 1: which once it happens, you're gonna go off course, Yeah,
Speaker 1: this ward needs him. It's a hell of a rollercoaster.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And there's only two stories, I think, two stories
Speaker 2: that are complete stories within the main story. One is Brookes,
Speaker 2: you know, and you need him because he shows what
Speaker 2: happens when you really lose hope and it all said
Speaker 2: and done, So you need that to have that juxtaposition
Speaker 2: between which choice are those two main characters going to make.
Speaker 2: And then Tommy and Tommy's role as the beginning, middle
Speaker 2: of the end, and Tommy's role is to introduce the
Speaker 2: innocence of it, but also to just amplify the the
Speaker 2: evil of the warden and the evil of the whole system,
Speaker 2: you know. And and Tommy does that in I mean,
Speaker 2: Tommy just enters kind of out of nowhere, doesn't He
Speaker 2: just comes in, His whole story is played out, and
Speaker 2: he's dead.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And and it really is evil. I mean,
Speaker 1: we got to know, we know they're bad, but I
Speaker 1: think it's it's what happens now that we'll have listen
Speaker 1: to that that that puts it into the evil, pure
Speaker 1: evil category. So this is and he's in the hall Warden.
Speaker 1: Norton calls for a meeting with Tommy, and again, what
Speaker 1: a rollercoaster. We think, okay, maybe the ward is going
Speaker 1: to help out, and let's have listen what happens.
Speaker 5: I'll tell you something. This thing really came along and
Speaker 5: knock my wind out. It's got me up nights. That's
Speaker 5: the truth, the right thing to do. Sometimes it's hard
Speaker 5: to know what that is.
Speaker 6: Do you understand? I need your help, son. If I'm
Speaker 6: going to move on this, there can't be the least
Speaker 6: little shredded out. I have to know of what you
Speaker 6: told to Fred. I mean, what's the truth? Yes, sir, absolutely?
Speaker 6: Would you be willing to swear before a judge and
Speaker 6: jury having placed your hand on the good Book and
Speaker 6: taken an oath before Almighty got himself? Just give me
Speaker 6: that chance. That's what I thought.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen the film many times. How did
Speaker 1: you feel watching it? Yeah, in the last six six
Speaker 1: days when you first with that happened.
Speaker 2: Ah, by that stage, I already hated this guy. They'd
Speaker 2: already done their job. Yeah, you know, establishing him, the
Speaker 2: hypocrisy of him up front talking about dolbino blasphemy and
Speaker 2: you know, the Bible and his belief system, and then
Speaker 2: to just unpick that throughout where he's swearing and money
Speaker 2: laundering and assaulting and all. So at that stage I
Speaker 2: was really hating that. And and it was one of those,
Speaker 2: you know, good storytelling things where his death was inevitable
Speaker 2: but unexpected. You kind of know this is not going
Speaker 2: to play out, but how are they going to get
Speaker 2: rid of them? It was dark. I mean, it was
Speaker 2: so the director I think when public saying that this
Speaker 2: was not meant to be some kind of subtle exposition
Speaker 2: of prison systems, but on many levels it was the
Speaker 2: cruelty and the freedom that they have and the lawlessness
Speaker 2: that exists ironically within a prison system. Yeah, I thought
Speaker 2: it was horrible.
Speaker 1: And what it does it challenges even the audience to
Speaker 1: keep hope because it basically it drains when Andy's got
Speaker 1: the most hope that he's ever had since being short
Speaker 1: of getting out, and it challenges the audience now to
Speaker 1: keep can you keep you? He's our hope going to
Speaker 1: die with with with Tommy because because this was this
Speaker 1: was and he's taken out and and and and we
Speaker 1: were on board with that, and now it's been snuffed out.
Speaker 1: And so not only does it tests and he's resolve
Speaker 1: and and and and hope I think it also tests
Speaker 1: the audiences, which is I think is is really really clever,
Speaker 1: but I mean, I think we are discussed.
Speaker 2: I also loved the symbolism of of the kind of
Speaker 2: like like the Bible and rock camera, and like like
Speaker 2: the fact that that it was hidden in the Bible,
Speaker 2: of which the warden was all four but yet all
Speaker 2: against it. It's just so brilliant. And now they swing
Speaker 2: back at the end.
Speaker 1: Did you notice what page? What chapter in the Bible?
Speaker 2: The page was yeah. Pause. I paused because I was
Speaker 2: watching it. I watched her twice, right the first time
Speaker 2: I watched on television and because I just want to
Speaker 2: see that's what. And the second time I watched it
Speaker 2: by computer. And when I got there, I paused because
Speaker 2: I was like, First of all, I just paused because filmically,
Speaker 2: I was wondering, is it the rough shape of the thing,
Speaker 2: you know, I was just wondering if they took the
Speaker 2: time to do it properly, which they did. But while
Speaker 2: I was looking at it, I was like, oh, fuck,
Speaker 2: it's on excident, Okay, all right.
Speaker 1: And we did an episode recently with Glenn Robbins with
Speaker 1: one flew over the Cookie's Nest and we spoke about
Speaker 1: Nurse Ratchett a bit who's sadly. Weirdly, the week after
Speaker 1: that episode came out, Louise Fletcher sadly passed away. And
Speaker 1: I think such a great performance in that movie. And
Speaker 1: you could argue about the kind of how evil was
Speaker 1: she was She just a woman trying to do her
Speaker 1: job at like a tough job, you know, And I
Speaker 1: think she's whether she's evil, but I think she abuses
Speaker 1: her position in that in that movie where there is
Speaker 1: no doubt about the Ward and and and Hadley they
Speaker 1: are they are evil. There's even references the book burning.
Speaker 1: It's so clever that and he's trying to introduce art
Speaker 1: in color to Shaw Shank through the beautiful record playing scene. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that scene at the moment you know they're knocking on
Speaker 1: the door and you know he's gonna get He knows
Speaker 1: he's going to get beaten. Certainly if he doesn't open
Speaker 1: the door, he's going to get beaten. And he leans in.
Speaker 1: You think he's going to turn it off, but he
Speaker 1: turns it up.
Speaker 2: Is and what a brilliant line from Morgan Freeman or
Speaker 2: from Red when he says, for a moment, we were
Speaker 2: all free. You know, yeah, Yeah, that's one of my
Speaker 2: favorite moments in the film.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And the fact that he is introducing the opening
Speaker 1: the library and he's getting books in. I mean, you
Speaker 1: can look at Shaw Shank as a you know, a
Speaker 1: riff on on arts funding, you know, in a way.
Speaker 1: I mean you've got the conservatives who who you know,
Speaker 1: I only using it because it kind of it helps
Speaker 1: and you know, it helps them make more money. But
Speaker 1: you know, whenever it's just about enlightening people and inspiring people,
Speaker 1: then they're not for that at all.
Speaker 2: But it's funny because it's another theme, isn't it. So
Speaker 2: you've got you've got you've got hope, you've got love
Speaker 2: and camaraderie, you've got fear and loneliness, and you got
Speaker 2: this persistence and resilience. I mean, the whole idea when
Speaker 2: he pulls out the rockererm and he says, oh, to escape,
Speaker 2: you'd need six hundred years with that thing, and and
Speaker 2: the fact that it's all being chipped away at and
Speaker 2: when he does the the library, you know, he writes
Speaker 2: two letters a week and he continues to do that
Speaker 2: for six years or something. I mean, it's just it
Speaker 2: just shows the the you know, kind of well known cliche.
Speaker 2: Now if you don't, half of it is getting up,
Speaker 2: you know, half of it is showing up, and half
Speaker 2: it is just keep going, keep chipping away pardon the
Speaker 2: pun in his case. Yeah, you know, and like perseverance
Speaker 2: and you know, not letting go completely is a major
Speaker 2: theme in this. That there's playots so literally in that
Speaker 2: he you know, chips his way out.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. One of one of the great scenes, which
Speaker 1: which I probably should have mentioned earlier because we're probably
Speaker 1: past this point, but it'll be it'd be wrong not
Speaker 1: to mention it because I feel like it's this. It's
Speaker 1: a scene where and he finds his feet in share shank,
Speaker 1: which is the the beers and the roof, and it
Speaker 1: is it's a beautiful scene. It's a great scene. We
Speaker 1: have them doing the they're tarring something doesn't see these days, thankfully,
Speaker 1: the tarring of the roof Red because he has he's
Speaker 1: the fixer and you know, he gets all these friends
Speaker 1: and and you know, I think, and he's probably reads
Speaker 1: me lucky to get in on that detail. Red does say.
Speaker 1: You could say that I liked Andy the very first
Speaker 1: time I saw him, or something like. But if you
Speaker 1: actually watch, it's not completely true. You know, he actually
Speaker 1: has money on him to be the first who kind
Speaker 1: of right, So that's a little little nudge or a
Speaker 1: little kind of ripple that doesn't quite ring true for me.
Speaker 1: But I got no doubt of the friendship that does occur.
Speaker 1: But this is where he he everyone kind of accepts Andy.
Speaker 1: And I will say this though, when he's when he's
Speaker 1: overhearing Hadley's tax problem with the money that he's inherited
Speaker 1: and that his wife, you know, and the way Andy
Speaker 1: raises the topic of tax exemption is a very dangerous
Speaker 1: way to do it. He really could have gone, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm an accountant, I'm a lawyer. I could help you
Speaker 1: with your tax issue.
Speaker 2: But he goes strang from the building.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he go, he goes straight forward. Do you trust
Speaker 1: your wife?
Speaker 2: Exactly? Probably not the opening normal countains would use.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but but it is it is. I love the
Speaker 1: fact that you know, and and the whole light and
Speaker 1: changes they had the CPS. It's not the most golden
Speaker 1: moment of Shawshank as far as the light, you know,
Speaker 1: they yeah, and and Red says, we drank SuDS with
Speaker 1: the with the sun on our backs. Uh, and and
Speaker 1: and he's not drinking. You know, he just did this
Speaker 1: given up and he which you know, almost a redentive
Speaker 1: thing to do.
Speaker 2: Perhaps, Yeah, I mean it's a fantastic line that that
Speaker 2: Read says on behalf of Andy that you know the
Speaker 2: reason he did it was not because he was interested
Speaker 2: in having a drink, but you know, the reason he
Speaker 2: did it was just to feel normal for a moment. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, to do something good and real. You know
Speaker 2: that that's and the fact that he's sitting there aloof
Speaker 2: and watching them and you know, and the characters are
Speaker 2: now warming to him, and it really was his turning
Speaker 2: point with yes, because that's when he started to get protected,
Speaker 2: that's when he started to get best treatments. That's when
Speaker 2: started unraveling. Oh sure, going in the right direction for
Speaker 2: him until it all went wrong again.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, So we'll move towards the end now. And
Speaker 1: did you did you did you get to the place
Speaker 1: where you thought Andy had given up? Hope he does.
Speaker 1: Obviously he comes out of the hole and and he
Speaker 1: has that chat with Read again. They're sitting up against
Speaker 1: the wall again. They're not standing up, they're sitting down.
Speaker 1: This guy's tim Robinson's height and this way he gives
Speaker 1: him the directions, but they kind of speak about hope
Speaker 1: as well. That again, it's really important to have these
Speaker 1: discussions that hope is dangerous. Andy, you have you have
Speaker 1: to give up on this and this is you know,
Speaker 1: Andy's in this kind of he's speaking that low broken
Speaker 1: he said, he said, he sounds broken, and Andy gives
Speaker 1: him some directions. I don't think you ought to be
Speaker 1: doing this to yourself.
Speaker 2: And this is just shitty paved dreams.
Speaker 7: I mean, Mexico was way to held down there and
Speaker 7: you're in here, and that's the way it is.
Speaker 11: Yeah, right, that's the way it is. It's down there
Speaker 11: and I'm in here. I guess it comes down to
Speaker 11: a simple choice. Really good busy living. You're good busy
Speaker 11: die Andy Bred.
Speaker 3: If you ever get out of here, do me a favor,
Speaker 3: sure anything. There's a big hay field up near Buxton.
Speaker 3: You know where Buxton is. There's a lot of hayfields
Speaker 3: up there. One in particular. It's got a long rock
Speaker 3: wall with a big oak tree at the north end.
Speaker 3: It's like something out of a Robert frostbow. That's where
Speaker 3: I asked my wife to marry me. I went there
Speaker 3: for a picnic and mad love into that oak and
Speaker 3: I asked, and she said, yes, promise me, Red, if
Speaker 3: you ever get out, find that spot. They said, that wall,
Speaker 3: you'll find a rock that has no earthly business.
Speaker 2: In a main en ave field.
Speaker 3: Here's a black volcanic glassy. There's something buried under.
Speaker 2: And I want you to have what happened?
Speaker 6: What's buried under that.
Speaker 2: You left the bride up?
Speaker 1: You see, I mean the making love was probably too
Speaker 1: much information.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I started to visualize that. I thinking, Okay,
Speaker 2: under the tree, the rocks, W does W does tell?
Speaker 2: What was her name?
Speaker 1: Debbie does VHS That's what it was. So it's I mean,
Speaker 1: it's quite brilliant in that Andy is selling hope back
Speaker 1: to Red in this moment, like he's giving him something
Speaker 1: to strive for in a way and the wonder about
Speaker 1: and to imagine and and I think that's that's hope,
Speaker 1: and it's interesting to think about. Okay, So he must
Speaker 1: have known because this all happens obviously, yet this money
Speaker 1: in this letter's not there yet. He's got this plan,
Speaker 1: so he's gonna you know, he's got a rocking mind.
Speaker 2: So he is really peddling false ol. But let's not
Speaker 2: go there. You know, Like he's like he is being
Speaker 2: overly hopeful. Yes, he's doing it in its own right,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: But I think he's confident that his plan is gonna,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, work out.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean this is you're now getting to. I
Speaker 2: don't want to turn anyone off the film because it's brilliant.
Speaker 2: This is the part I like least about the film.
Speaker 1: Specifically, which like this this scene, or where it goes.
Speaker 2: From here or where it goes from here?
Speaker 1: Where it goes Is this the escape or is his
Speaker 1: post the escape?
Speaker 2: So so I wanted the redemption to be Andy gets
Speaker 2: buried by red.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: I wanted him to die in the prison that I
Speaker 2: didn't want. I didn't want the redemption in its literal form.
Speaker 2: I want it read to carry the hope, right. I
Speaker 2: want it read to convert to be hopeful. And then
Speaker 2: I don't know Andy letter, you know, I don't know
Speaker 2: Andy leaves in a letter and he goes off and
Speaker 2: lives a great I don't know. I struggled with the
Speaker 2: literal redemption, like when he's driving down the road in
Speaker 2: the convertible, I went no, no, no, no, rest I
Speaker 2: don't want a conronable driving in the winding road. I
Speaker 2: don't want like and I know the symbolism of the
Speaker 2: green and the ocean, the blue and the Pacific Ocean,
Speaker 2: but I don't know it's I didn't need it. But yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I kind of I didn't want the literal redemption.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, I mean, I I mean I saw this,
Speaker 1: you know, over twenty years ago. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: think like most people didn't see it the cinema, I
Speaker 1: don't think, but I thought, you know, not long after that,
Speaker 1: and I probably wasn't in that mind space where I
Speaker 1: was like, like you now, where I was thinking about, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I probably wanted the happy, happier ending.
Speaker 2: Yeah. They don't kill off characters twenty years.
Speaker 1: Ago, Yeah, yeah they Yeah, so I was. I've never
Speaker 1: thought about it. I never thought about like that that
Speaker 1: I've always I got to see, this is one of
Speaker 1: the perfect kind of act third acts. You know. I
Speaker 1: always back to the future being a perfect third act.
Speaker 1: And I feel that this is because this is this
Speaker 1: is a a thing where if you're watching if you're
Speaker 1: watching Shaw shank and it comes on around this time,
Speaker 1: you're canceling your plans and you watch it because, I
Speaker 1: mean because the because the way it all unfolds is brilliant,
Speaker 1: and the little moments you get along the way, and
Speaker 1: the come uppance of the ward and when he realizes
Speaker 1: when he sees that the rock camera in love that
Speaker 1: in print the shoes, you know, and you can't because
Speaker 1: we don't know, you know, And I said, they do
Speaker 1: a really good job of thinking what what happened? You know?
Speaker 1: Red is upset the longest night of his life. You know,
Speaker 1: the cells open in the morning, he doesn't appear. We
Speaker 1: see him the night before with rope in his hands.
Speaker 1: It's basically a noose, and you kind of do think,
Speaker 1: did you ever think that could happen?
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 2: I was kind of so. I loved the twist of
Speaker 2: the rock camera in the Bible. Yeah, and I love
Speaker 2: the fact that he took twenty years, not six under
Speaker 2: the tunnel out. I kind of loved it. I just
Speaker 2: wanted him to die doing it, Like I just wanted
Speaker 2: him like I would have been happy for him to
Speaker 2: escape or to to die trying to get that note
Speaker 2: out to read or whatever like that the rope strangles
Speaker 2: him on his escape through the tunnel or what. I
Speaker 2: don't know, like I didn't want I didn't I didn't
Speaker 2: want him, Tim Robbins or Andy to literally have redemption
Speaker 2: like that. I kind of I wanted it to be red,
Speaker 2: you know. I wanted it to be Red that comes
Speaker 2: right and gets hope and comes you know. And you
Speaker 2: could say he did in the end, but I wanted
Speaker 2: him to be I wanted us to feel the loss
Speaker 2: of Andy and then to feel the the the rejuvenated
Speaker 2: somehow rejuvenated hope of red because he had met someone
Speaker 2: he loved or whatever.
Speaker 1: Well, and you make a bel ap point in that
Speaker 1: it probably is Read that needs the redemption more than Andy. Andy,
Speaker 1: and he's an innocent man. And yes he had a
Speaker 1: dark moment where he was loading a gun and and
Speaker 1: and that. But I'm not sure I've done that. We've
Speaker 1: all done that. But so you don't do you need
Speaker 1: twenty years for you know, for him the kind of
Speaker 1: you know, for that moment to be redeemed. I don't
Speaker 1: think so. But it's red. It's red who has who
Speaker 1: is guilty of his crime, who has lost hope, that
Speaker 1: has a bigger journey as far as redemption goes.
Speaker 2: You're you're right, yeah, And and and when he's walking
Speaker 2: on the beach at the end and with the sandaler's
Speaker 2: shoes on on his shoulder. I I don't know, I
Speaker 2: just I wanted to feel more from him, you know,
Speaker 2: And I know it's a buddy film, so in the
Speaker 2: end they're together. But that was my only with that said, Like,
Speaker 2: I loved it. I loved the end. Yeah, it's I
Speaker 2: didn't hate it. It was the part I liked least,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Like I and again now
Speaker 2: picking apart the film and you know, and you kind
Speaker 2: of see it differently than washing over you. It would
Speaker 2: have washed over me, you know, twenty years ago.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, the escape, you know, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: one of those fun things to watch in in movie history,
Speaker 1: like in movies in general, a good escape or a
Speaker 1: heist or escape when you kind of don't know how
Speaker 1: he's done it, and when you see it or play out,
Speaker 1: there are a couple of things that you know are convenient,
Speaker 1: you know, like the weather that he you know its gonna.
Speaker 2: Be done right wait wait wait wait wait wait wait
Speaker 2: wait wait wait.
Speaker 1: I'm so surprised in a way, to be honest, when
Speaker 1: he when they see him walking with and he's wearing
Speaker 1: the warden shoes, and it's revealed later that they didn't
Speaker 1: maybe lay in at least some rain, you know, or
Speaker 1: you know, or this this is something about whether there
Speaker 1: was some inclement weather coming, you know, and you know,
Speaker 1: a hackeyway could have been a warden saying there's going
Speaker 1: to be storms tonight or something, you know, like somebody
Speaker 1: saying that so, which would mean nothing to us in
Speaker 1: the moment. But then when Andy does that, it'd be like, ah, okay,
Speaker 1: so he knew. There's just something about that. It's just
Speaker 1: too convenient that to happen now. And then I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if that's how surage works.
Speaker 2: If that I wasn't either.
Speaker 1: It may be if anyone works in the.
Speaker 2: A sewage experts, Yes.
Speaker 1: If there are yasny at gmail dot com, I'll get
Speaker 1: us on the speak pipe. Let us know.
Speaker 2: Is that how it works exactly? Call Shane Jacobson and
Speaker 2: see what he knows. But but but I guess for me,
Speaker 2: I love the idea of the escape because it was
Speaker 2: the one up of it's the long game, you know,
Speaker 2: it's the perseverance, it's the hope beyond you know, despair,
Speaker 2: it's it's it's all about and I did enjoy Uh,
Speaker 2: I enjoyed it all the way up and when he
Speaker 2: it's when the rain's coming down and he stands up
Speaker 2: and he's covered and you know, he's not really covered,
Speaker 2: and shit, it's kind of out now off. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: exactly exactly. And I loved all that. It's it's kind
Speaker 2: of a bat point onwards and and even pacing wise
Speaker 2: from that point onwards. I thought that sort of languid,
Speaker 2: that that sort of slow pace worked well in the
Speaker 2: prison thing, in the prison environment, but when he brought
Speaker 2: a noted into the real world, it's suddenly felt a
Speaker 2: little different, like it was a bit like it's just
Speaker 2: a slow ending, like it felt like a number of
Speaker 2: stops and starts towards the end, where I didn't feel
Speaker 2: any of that within I mean, we're picking now, but
Speaker 2: I didn't feel any of that within the prison.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, he kept.
Speaker 2: The same pacing, this kind of slow, melodic pacing in
Speaker 2: the real world. Uh. And I jarred a bit for
Speaker 2: me as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I did love when Red gets out and
Speaker 1: you know, again, it it took me to apply where
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, he's read going to get through this
Speaker 1: we've seen Brooks. He goes to the same hotel. He
Speaker 1: gets up and he writes, yeah, read was he too?
Speaker 2: And I love the line where he says, uh. He
Speaker 2: turns to his boss and that when he's packing the
Speaker 2: groceries and says, can I go to the toilet? And
Speaker 2: the guy says, you don't have to ask me? And
Speaker 2: he did. The vol comes on and says, I can't
Speaker 2: piss a drop without permission or whatever. And it's just see,
Speaker 2: I love that stuff because to me, it's you. You're
Speaker 2: you're sort of feeling the impact of the dehumanization inside
Speaker 2: and it's just so amplified on the outside. And then
Speaker 2: it makes you question a whole bunch of things. You know,
Speaker 2: it makes you question the difference between rehabilitation and incarceration.
Speaker 2: And you know, he's he should be redeemed at this
Speaker 2: stage because he's deserved his time. He seems like a
Speaker 2: good person, yet he's still institutionalized even on the outside.
Speaker 2: And like, I don't know, as soon as we get
Speaker 2: to writing in the convertible and where do you get
Speaker 2: that convertible?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I think it goes what three one hundred
Speaker 1: and seventy five thousand, dollars or something love that which
Speaker 1: which to today's three and seventy thousand dollars today's money
Speaker 1: is two point nine million.
Speaker 2: That he would have walked away. Okay, so you've.
Speaker 1: Got a convertible. Ok, you got the comvertible. OK.
Speaker 2: Well, he really should have given Morgan Freeman more money
Speaker 2: than the bus.
Speaker 1: He should it should have been a convertible weight he's.
Speaker 2: Got two million, he should have a convertible wait for
Speaker 2: Morgan Freeman or even a small plane take him down there.
Speaker 1: I did love that. It was the he's only the
Speaker 1: second crime he's ever committed was breaking parole. I thought
Speaker 1: it was a nice touch. He finds he finds the
Speaker 1: oak tree where they made love, you know, unncessary detail, and.
Speaker 2: He SIPs through the dirt that had been there.
Speaker 1: That's reated say how many times you got his? Oh
Speaker 1: my god? So and then and then there is a letter.
Speaker 1: Let's have listened to the letter.
Speaker 10: Mhm H.
Speaker 3: Dear Red. If you're reading this, you've gotten out, and
Speaker 3: if you've come this far, maybe you're willing to come
Speaker 3: a little further. You remember the name of the town.
Speaker 2: Don't you say?
Speaker 7: Walked in nil?
Speaker 3: I could use a good man to help me get
Speaker 3: my project on wheels. I'll keep an eye out for
Speaker 3: you and the chessboard. Ready, Remember red Hope is a
Speaker 3: good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good
Speaker 3: thing ever dies. I will be hoping that this letter
Speaker 3: finds you and finds you well, your friend Andy.
Speaker 1: The lovely little touch that Morgan Freeman does when he
Speaker 1: gets the letter and then when he gets the money,
Speaker 1: is he he looks around.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, exactly, he's been in praising his line someone
Speaker 2: getting me in.
Speaker 1: An open field, and he's still looking around for prison wardens.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's I mean, it's It's a gorgeous moment, isn't it.
Speaker 1: And you wonder, you wonder if if Andy dies in
Speaker 1: this film. I like the idea if we're you know,
Speaker 1: to reach into your thoughts, if I think you want
Speaker 1: to see Andy get out of share shame, and like
Speaker 1: you said, maybe he does die on the way out
Speaker 1: where he dies.
Speaker 2: Try Hope is last for Andy.
Speaker 1: Yes, But but Red Red does get it, and Red
Speaker 1: finds the redemption, and and and and and signs up
Speaker 1: for hope. Yes, I feel like that's that that does
Speaker 1: work for us of the greatest films.
Speaker 2: Much lovels on the planet. But since we are like
Speaker 2: cutting it up a bit. That's how I felt towards
Speaker 2: the end, and I'm probably not alone in people that
Speaker 2: thought the ending was a bit not pollyannish. But it
Speaker 2: was a little bit not even that it would be expected,
Speaker 2: it was just a little bit American.
Speaker 1: Well, there's no doubt this film does tow a line
Speaker 1: where it could have so easily have have tippled over
Speaker 1: into mawkish kind of land. You know, it's it's it's
Speaker 1: a fine balance. I think they get it right.
Speaker 2: And it's not markets though. I mean that is a
Speaker 2: good but you know, that is a good point. I
Speaker 2: don't think it goes there, but it starts to towards
Speaker 2: the end. It is certainly nowhere there throughout until the
Speaker 2: very end in my.
Speaker 1: Mind, because it because it has balanced effect, you know,
Speaker 1: with with some pretty violence beatings and you assaults, So
Speaker 1: there is there is that which I think does really
Speaker 1: help it. Before we go, I got I got some
Speaker 1: fun facts, like you said, Tom Tom Cruise almost played
Speaker 1: Andy and that was because Rob Ryiner was going to
Speaker 1: almost well he wanted to, so I mentioned before Darrabant
Speaker 1: had directed a short film called Woman in the Room.
Speaker 1: He was keen to get out of horror. Rob Rainer
Speaker 1: loved the book as well, which this is a comes from.
Speaker 1: It's a short story of Stephen King could read a
Speaker 1: Hayworth and the short Redemption, and it's in a book
Speaker 1: called Different Seasons. It's got four different short stories in it.
Speaker 1: Three of the short stories have been made in the films.
Speaker 1: One is a one called app to People, which Brian
Speaker 1: Singer did in the in the nineties. The other one
Speaker 1: is another classic stand by Me is from that book.
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure what the fourth story is there,
Speaker 1: but it has not.
Speaker 2: It has not one with the clowns.
Speaker 1: It's not clo that's a full on that is a
Speaker 1: full on book itself, so it's not that one. Not
Speaker 1: sure what I'm not sure what that one is. But
Speaker 1: next time you okay, you're gonna come back and we'll
Speaker 1: do those devils watch it. He Here are some other
Speaker 1: casting options. Certainly Tim Robbins was not the first choice.
Speaker 1: Tom Cruise I rober Owner was going to do it,
Speaker 1: and then Jeff Bridges was considered, Kevin Costner, Matthew Broderick,
Speaker 1: Nick Cage and the other big one who it was
Speaker 1: literally offered to, and he chose to do another film
Speaker 1: that year was Tom Hanks, and he chose to do
Speaker 1: a little film called Forrest Gump, which he wins the
Speaker 1: Oscar for. Yeah, of course Red was going to be
Speaker 1: played potentially well. Some of the ideas were Clint Eastwood,
Speaker 1: Harrison Ford, Paul Newman, Robert Redford and Sydney Pointier, who
Speaker 1: actually knocked it back because he thought playing a black
Speaker 1: man in prison wasn't necessarily helping seotype stereotypes. So he said, no,
Speaker 1: it's funny actually because he's such a Red. I think
Speaker 1: he's seen it's such a dignified kind of character in
Speaker 1: that film that like far Bie. For me to disagree
Speaker 1: with his to Poitier, but I think he would have
Speaker 1: been amazing in that role. The young, the young. The
Speaker 1: photo of young Red is actually the photo we see
Speaker 1: when he with his parole meetings. He's actually young Alfonso Freeman,
Speaker 1: which is Morgan's son.
Speaker 2: It did it jarred with me every time because I
Speaker 2: was like, that's not him. Even back then, like I
Speaker 2: kept thinking that's not him. He kept showing you.
Speaker 1: Want to as an actor, you know, surely, but maybe not.
Speaker 1: Maybe I was thinking Morgan for probably would have had
Speaker 1: some head shots they could have used, but maybe he
Speaker 1: was smiling or maybe had his his hands on his
Speaker 1: hand on his chin or something, which doesn't work as
Speaker 1: for a mog shot. He's also in the prison yard.
Speaker 1: When he comes in there, they're talking about they're going fishing,
Speaker 1: and he's doing a mock kind of reeling somebody in here.
Speaker 1: So he's in it twice. It's a Roger Deakins, who
Speaker 1: I'm sure you you know. He's one of the great cinematographers.
Speaker 1: This is his first Academy Award nomination. He's been nominated
Speaker 1: for many many times. He basically does all the current
Speaker 1: Brothers films. He did nineteen seventeen with Sam Mendez, recently
Speaker 1: later on a twenty forty nine So Carrio Prisoners. Like
Speaker 1: I said, all the the Coen Brothers film sky Fall,
Speaker 1: The Assassination of Jesse James, and the Cow Robert Ford.
Speaker 1: I think he finally wins his first one. He got
Speaker 1: he famously kept on missing out, and then I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure he got his first one for No Country, for
Speaker 1: Old Man Redemption. He was the Deacons Redemption. He also
Speaker 1: does a podcast if you're interested, with his wife, who's
Speaker 1: like in I think it's got Team Deacons. His wife
Speaker 1: works closely with him to help put the crew together
Speaker 1: and they do a really interesting podcast together for those
Speaker 1: for those interested. And just I talked a lot about
Speaker 1: the year nineteen ninety nine been one of the greatest
Speaker 1: movie years ever. Had films like Being John Malkovic, Three Kings, Magnolia,
Speaker 1: The Matrix, A whole bunch of great films were released
Speaker 1: in ninety ninety nine, but there's something to be said
Speaker 1: about nineteen ninety four, where this film is released for
Speaker 1: like pure like crab pleasing movies. The five nominations for
Speaker 1: Best Picture that year were Forrest Gump, Four Weddings and
Speaker 1: a Funeral, a rare comedy nomination, quiz Show Robert Redford
Speaker 1: and saying it refines really good show, but maybe that
Speaker 1: hasn't lived in the public's memory as much as the
Speaker 1: other ones, Shawshack, Redemption, and Pulp Fiction. Yeah amazing, that's
Speaker 1: a strong field.
Speaker 2: That's a strong field.
Speaker 1: So and Tom Hanks Wings for Forrest Gump and Yeah,
Speaker 1: and also other other movies that year with Lion King
Speaker 1: Hans Zimmer wins the score for that, Bullets Over Broadway,
Speaker 1: the Three Colors Trilogy, or atleast the Blue One came
Speaker 1: out that year. True Lies, Speed is a pretty a
Speaker 1: pretty good year, A pretty good year. Mate. You are
Speaker 1: You're as busy as as they come. You have just
Speaker 1: wrapped on your latest doc Oat series, which is which
Speaker 1: you do some terrifying things. I'm often privately concerned about.
Speaker 2: You ask God, this is fine, this is all about
Speaker 2: the internet. Well yeah, but now it's changing, This could
Speaker 2: be changing our brain.
Speaker 1: This could be the most terrifying one you've done. Maybe
Speaker 1: to watch.
Speaker 2: I think it'll be a shocker for a lot of parents,
Speaker 2: but hopefully it's useful, is all.
Speaker 1: It's much needed. It is the battle, you know, the
Speaker 1: amount of conversations I have with friends who are parents,
Speaker 1: and the amount of conversations we have on the project.
Speaker 1: Very rarely do we have answers and and so I
Speaker 1: can't wait to watch it. But how did you how
Speaker 1: did you find making it?
Speaker 2: Is?
Speaker 1: It? Is it?
Speaker 2: It is confronting as our father and as someone who
Speaker 2: is swimming in the digital world and struggling with my
Speaker 2: own digital habits. It was a bit shocking. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: The opening of the film is pretty hardcore, like, it's
Speaker 2: pretty full on. There will be a lot of conversations
Speaker 2: it's off the opening. I think people will just be
Speaker 2: wanting to talk with their kids about it, and there'll
Speaker 2: be a lot of sheepish kids looking to the floor,
Speaker 2: pretending they know nothing about what they're seeing, but knowing
Speaker 2: everything about what they're seeing.
Speaker 1: So do you suggest watching it with you? It's open.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some sections that are a little bit hard
Speaker 2: to watch. But this is the thing, right, this is
Speaker 2: their world. Yeah, the parents will be shocked even say it.
Speaker 2: I have a line in there where I say before
Speaker 2: I said, what you're about to see is concerning and
Speaker 2: in some cases graphic. So for the parents in the room,
Speaker 2: this is a warning. For the kids in the room,
Speaker 2: you know what's coming.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's great and.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and that's the point, is the sort of
Speaker 2: duality of lives we live. You know, we're kids, on
Speaker 2: average these days are spending forty to fifty hours a
Speaker 2: week on TikTok, you know, or on social media. And
Speaker 2: they live in that world and we don't. Because we
Speaker 2: lived in a world where we had an option. You know,
Speaker 2: we lived in a world. I lived in the world
Speaker 2: where the phone at one stage was attached to the wall,
Speaker 2: so in there was there was no internet so unique.
Speaker 1: Oh I am, I am now often be mused and
Speaker 1: I'm guilty of it as well. Like we we do
Speaker 1: see screens as as a kid's problem, you know, or
Speaker 1: a problem facing our kids. But but it's not, it's
Speaker 1: not it's it's it's all of us and and.
Speaker 2: And the film is my film is not directed directly
Speaker 2: at kids, for everything is about us. As you know,
Speaker 2: there's four point six billion people trapped in this experiment
Speaker 2: controlled by a handful of white men. Yeah, that's just
Speaker 2: the reality we live in right now, a handful of
Speaker 2: primarily white American men, four point six billion people. It's
Speaker 2: not a small amount, you know, that's not that's not
Speaker 2: just kids, no, And it's not just Australia or America.
Speaker 1: And it's a yeah, and it is a it's a
Speaker 1: strategic beast. You know, when you as soon as you know,
Speaker 1: you know it was probably recently ago we started learning
Speaker 1: about algorithms and how how how we're targeted, and it's
Speaker 1: this is this is, like I said, a strategic and we.
Speaker 2: Live in an algorithmic world now that is beyond a
Speaker 2: humans comprehension. You know. Jeff Siebert's in the film, and
Speaker 2: he was in the social dilemma. And he was the
Speaker 2: former head of product at Twitter, and we're in the
Speaker 2: valley and he was explaining. He said, oh, there is
Speaker 2: a human alife that understands these algorithms. There's self learning machines.
Speaker 2: They're off. And here's the crazy part. We're just at
Speaker 2: the foothills. If we don't get regulation and if we
Speaker 2: don't wake up to what's going on, we're just the beginning.
Speaker 2: We're just right at the beginning. You know. The where
Speaker 2: this could go is you know, people say, oh, are
Speaker 2: you being alarmist? Yes, there's an alarm involved, but I
Speaker 2: think we just need to be realistic where we are.
Speaker 2: It's like smoking. We went all those years thinking smoking
Speaker 2: was good for us. Doctor is on air telling us
Speaker 2: smoking's fine, don't worry, I smoke. And now we look
Speaker 2: back at that and go and legislation pass to protect smoking.
Speaker 2: And now we look back at that and go, oh, god,
Speaker 2: we should have protected our generation of children from this.
Speaker 2: The reason we regulate advertising from kids. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: the same thing we need to regulate.
Speaker 1: It's the thing I think about most as a parent.
Speaker 1: It really is like, am I going to Yeah, those
Speaker 1: conversations are almost oh my yeah, one of my kids
Speaker 1: coming to me. And you know, I've got a twenty
Speaker 1: year old on the sevene year old and I feel
Speaker 1: like they've navigated that pretty well. I've got a fourteen
Speaker 1: year old who are more concerned about well.
Speaker 2: I highly recommend it. It's out next week. I think
Speaker 2: next week week after the tenth. If you're on a Monday,
Speaker 2: I think, if you can get your kids around the screen,
Speaker 2: do it, man. It'll be a really good conversation. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think, and lots of practical tips on things we
Speaker 2: can do as parents or as individuals to help kind
Speaker 2: of mitigate some of the damage that's happening.
Speaker 1: Are you saying, Todd, that you're giving us some hope?
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's hope definitely. The second half of the film's o.
Speaker 2: The first half is very shosh. It's all going downhill.
Speaker 2: Second a half act to Act one, oh boy, Act
Speaker 2: two start to come up. Act three we're off.
Speaker 1: So it's early on it's hope is a dangerous thing.
Speaker 1: And then then it's like, no, you need hope. You
Speaker 1: need hope, Randy, you need help, red thanks mate. Well
Speaker 1: there you go. That is Todd Sam's in the show
Speaker 1: Shank Redemption we finally found somebody and who hadn't seen it,
Speaker 1: and I'm so glad it was Todd because he's such
Speaker 1: he's a filmmaker himself, and he loves film, and he
Speaker 1: always is so insightful and fascinating with what he has
Speaker 1: to say in his observation. So that was that was
Speaker 1: really fun. You know, I'm relieved that he loved it because
Speaker 1: I know a lot of you love it. I love it.
Speaker 1: Not many people I know have what Shawshank redemption come away,
Speaker 1: you're not enjoying it, So great news for Shawshank fans. Yeah, really, really,
Speaker 1: really a whole bunch of fun. Derek Myyes, is my
Speaker 1: co pilot here. He runs Castway Studios. If you're looking
Speaker 1: for a somewhere to do a podcast, whether it's in here,
Speaker 1: in the studios, or even remotely, get onto Derek my
Speaker 1: Castways Studios dot com dot au. Derek, you're a show
Speaker 1: Shank fan? Shortly, yeah, everyone is. Everybody is, Yeah.
Speaker 9: But I Reckon a prison movie fan. I probably didn't
Speaker 9: realize it till till I started to them. I just
Speaker 9: looked up a bit of a list before I found
Speaker 9: a website called prisonmovies dot net.
Speaker 1: Right, right, and it's.
Speaker 9: It is phenomenal, like it has like the top five
Speaker 9: hundred prison.
Speaker 1: What are the other ones that you like that you
Speaker 1: speak to you with the Birdman of Alcatraz, I really enjoyed.
Speaker 9: Yeah, so a lot of them as a kid affect.
Speaker 9: You know, you're talking about the high school thing, and
Speaker 9: I agree with you there that fascination with American high school.
Speaker 9: That's another world and it's good. I think that the
Speaker 9: underside of that, if you like point of that is like,
Speaker 9: oh my god, don't get caught. You grow up with
Speaker 9: watching prisoner going don't look too bad really, and then
Speaker 9: you see Papillon, you know, or that, Okay, that's a
Speaker 9: bad example.
Speaker 2: It's not.
Speaker 9: It's not American, but you see this Alcatraz stuff and
Speaker 9: all the all this stuff with proper not just how
Speaker 9: bad prison is, but real horrendous corruption and stuff like that.
Speaker 9: I was a huge fan of brew Baker, right, Robert Redford, Okay,
Speaker 9: put that on the list. Love love brew Baker and
Speaker 9: as a cool hand Luke fan.
Speaker 1: Cool hand Luke, I love im, Like I'm looking forward
Speaker 1: to doing that.
Speaker 9: Brew Baker is it's about a guy who's a criminologist
Speaker 9: and he gets the job as a governor obviously as
Speaker 9: they would say, liberal or lefty kind of new governor,
Speaker 9: and he goes in undercover as a prisoners. It's pretty tense,
Speaker 9: probably thirty years since I've seen it, but absolutely love
Speaker 9: that Baker Brew Baker put it on.
Speaker 1: Get onto that. Now you can get onto us through
Speaker 1: our speak pipe, Yes, a speak pipe. If you follow
Speaker 1: the links on our pages, you'll find it and you
Speaker 1: can leave us a message where we can hear your
Speaker 1: your dollsic. Tones. And I believe we have one today, Derek.
Speaker 9: Yes, we've got Jason Carter sent one.
Speaker 2: Through jas by guys.
Speaker 10: Jason here. Just want to let you both know that
Speaker 10: loving the podcast. Although I'm struggling through fear and loathing
Speaker 10: in Las Vegas at the moment, it's one that I've
Speaker 10: got to catch up on. There's been a few lately
Speaker 10: that I haven't actually seen, and one of the cool
Speaker 10: things about the podcast is it's got me to pull
Speaker 10: my finger out and go and watch a few movies
Speaker 10: that I haven't made the effort to do on the path.
Speaker 10: So going pretty good, although I'm struggling with fear and loathing,
Speaker 10: so I'll get through it and then I can listen
Speaker 10: to that ed.
Speaker 2: Remember a while.
Speaker 10: Ago you mentioned that you had a few guests that
Speaker 10: you wanted to have on, but you were struggling to
Speaker 10: find a movie that hadn't seen and I just wanted
Speaker 10: to throw out there. Maybe you could try some of
Speaker 10: the original movies that won the Best Picture awards at
Speaker 10: the Academy Awards, things like Grand Hotel and Cimarron, which
Speaker 10: they're interesting movies. I don't know where the hell you'd
Speaker 10: find them. I think Cimarron I hide it on VHS
Speaker 10: from a library about ten years ago, so it'll be
Speaker 10: out there somewhere. But something different and give you a
Speaker 10: chance to get I think Lucky Hume was someone that
Speaker 10: you mentioned. Give you a chance to get some of
Speaker 10: those guys on the pod. So but I'm keep it up,
Speaker 10: really enjoying it.
Speaker 1: Catch it later, Thanks Jace. What a great suggestion. We
Speaker 1: have struggled to get one that Lucky Hume definitely, even
Speaker 1: though he had some legal blonde and I try to
Speaker 1: pitch that, but he not that it knock that on
Speaker 1: its head. But Grand Hotel and Cimmaron are great suggestions
Speaker 1: I know we have and we're trying to lock down
Speaker 1: a time. But Hamish Blake will be coming on the show,
Speaker 1: and he'll be He'll be doing a film that, to
Speaker 1: be absolutely honest, I hadn't heard of, and I won't
Speaker 1: mention it just yet. I'll mention it as soon as
Speaker 1: we confirm it that he'll be appearing and it's recorded.
Speaker 1: I don't want to get into the Judith Flucy situation
Speaker 1: of saying she'd be doing sound of music for years
Speaker 1: and years and years until we finally do it. So
Speaker 1: but that's in that thing's in that genre of really
Speaker 1: films that a lot of people maybe wouldn't have even
Speaker 1: heard of. So I'm happy to put Grand Hotel and
Speaker 1: Cimmarron on the list that they are great suggestions. Good luck.
Speaker 1: Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, I kind of felt
Speaker 1: like I wanted to yell at the Jason there, Derek,
Speaker 1: because of course, the Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
Speaker 1: episode was a bit controversial because our guest Dan Connell
Speaker 1: was supposed to watch Lost in Translation but accidentally watched
Speaker 1: Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. I hadn't well, I
Speaker 1: have seen it, but I was operating a lot on
Speaker 1: recall as opposed to my extensive deep diving that I
Speaker 1: like to do on these films. So yes, Jase, if
Speaker 1: you listening to this, I hope you got through it, okay, mate,
Speaker 1: And I hope you enjoyed that episode. So we had
Speaker 1: a great time with Dan despite the mix up coming
Speaker 1: up and you ain't say nothing yet. Next week, well,
Speaker 1: I thought we've had some big guess Darren Hayes. A
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, we had obviously Todd Sampson. Today
Speaker 1: it's some of a giant to be Australian television scene.
Speaker 1: We've already had Cat Stewart early in the year, Sushi Mango,
Speaker 1: Glenn Robbins, Bloody Hell. Next week we have a Gold
Speaker 1: Logi nomine a woman who's always, always, always funny, Julia Morris,
Speaker 1: the host co host of I'm a Celebrity to Get
Speaker 1: Me out of Here. She's one of the funniest people
Speaker 1: in this country. I adore her. She's so entertaining and
Speaker 1: she will be watching for the very first time, believe
Speaker 1: it or not, the Adam Sandler classic Happy Gilmore. Yes,
Speaker 1: after Shaw Shank, we are lightning things up again with
Speaker 1: a comedy that really launched Adam Sandler to the world.
Speaker 1: We've discussed Adam Sandler a bit on this podcast. People
Speaker 1: have different reactions to him, so it'd be interesting to
Speaker 1: see Julia's take. Obviously she knows who Adam Sandler is,
Speaker 1: but this is a film that I think endeared him
Speaker 1: to the world. That's next week, Julia Morris, Happy Gilmore
Speaker 1: sharring Adam Sandler. Make sure you're tune in for that,
Speaker 1: and before we go, a little different outro this week.
Speaker 1: This is dedicated to my good mate Todd Samson. Thanks
Speaker 1: for joining us, Todd. This is the score from Debbie.
Speaker 6: Does tell us enjoy.
Speaker 8: Even be reading
Speaker 7: In the