Speaker 1: This episode of You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet, I just
Speaker 1: want to put a trigger warning out in front of it.
Speaker 1: We are discussing Stanley Kubrick's Clockwork Orange and it's a
Speaker 1: movie that features some scenes involving rape, so they are
Speaker 1: briefly discussed in this podcast. I just wanted to put
Speaker 1: a warning at the top. Hey, they I'm Peter Hallier
Speaker 1: and welcome to You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet, the podcast
Speaker 1: that talks to movie lovers about classic and beloved movies
Speaker 1: they haven't quite got around to watching until now. In
Speaker 1: today's guest, Christopher Pine, what.
Speaker 2: We've got here is failure, Duke Milky.
Speaker 3: The Corovn bar sold milk.
Speaker 4: Plus You've got to need a bigger poach.
Speaker 5: Right now.
Speaker 6: He Ain't Seen Nothing.
Speaker 1: If you had told me I'd be doing a movie
Speaker 1: podcast featuring former Minister of Defense Christopher Pine, I would
Speaker 1: have been very surprised, very surprised. Indeed, although through his
Speaker 1: appearances on the project, Christopher Pine has become my most
Speaker 1: unlikely friend of recent years. He's a good company, he's intelligent,
Speaker 1: he's funny, and he's extremely candid. This was the first
Speaker 1: interview I recorded for this series, and I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: Christopher had only just retired from politics not long before
Speaker 1: we recorded this, and when he suggested the film I watch,
Speaker 1: I was very excited because I hadn't seen it either, Yes,
Speaker 1: a clockwork orating Stanley Kubrick's nineteen seventy one mind fuck Up,
Speaker 1: A masterpiece that most people lie about having seen. I
Speaker 1: know I did. I mean, I think I knew I
Speaker 1: hadn't seen it. I don't know. There are so many
Speaker 1: iconic scenes and images associated with this dystopian classic, which
Speaker 1: with twollows, Alex and the Druids who love violence, sex,
Speaker 1: cricket boxes, and classical music. Let's dive deep with Christopher Pine.
Speaker 6: I'm Christopher Pine, and my three favorite movies are Gone
Speaker 6: with the wind.
Speaker 4: Frankly, I don't give a damn.
Speaker 6: The Chariots for five and the sound of music? But
Speaker 6: is it you can't face? Although I do have a
Speaker 6: particular affection for Babe, but I'm only allowed to have
Speaker 6: three favorites. Amazingly, I've never seen a clockwork orange until recently.
Speaker 6: What you got back home, little sister, to play your
Speaker 6: fuzzy warbles on? I bet you've got little save potable
Speaker 6: picnic players come with uncle, and.
Speaker 5: Here all proper, here angel trumpets, some devil trombones.
Speaker 6: You are invited.
Speaker 1: Welcome Christopher Pine. Sorry I should I should say it again.
Speaker 1: Welcome Christopher Pine. Now, thank you for coming on. You
Speaker 1: ain't seen nothing yet. Why have you not seen A
Speaker 1: Clockwork Orange until this week?
Speaker 6: Well because I had quite a sheltered upbringing, which will
Speaker 6: surprise your listeners. And we weren't allowed to watch movies
Speaker 6: like A Clockwork Orange when they came out, because they
Speaker 6: were seen to be seditious. And the first thing I
Speaker 6: was allowed to watch was I Claudius, which had Bobs
Speaker 6: in it.
Speaker 5: By we could stage the greatest night of love the
Speaker 5: world has ever.
Speaker 6: Seen, because my father thought, despite the fact that it
Speaker 6: was a little bit out there, it was about ancient Rome,
Speaker 6: and it was very important in our family to have
Speaker 6: a love of the classics.
Speaker 3: What was the first movie you ever saw?
Speaker 6: Oh, God, that's a good question. I can tell you. Actually,
Speaker 6: Beatrix Potter. It was a children's movie with actors dressed
Speaker 6: up as Jeremy Fisher and Jemima Puddle Duck. I can't
Speaker 6: remember the name of it, but it was Beatrix. It
Speaker 6: was about It was a Beatrix Potter movie at a
Speaker 6: movie house, at a cinema with my dad and my family.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so what is going through the movies? What is it?
Speaker 1: Do you still go to the movies? Do you?
Speaker 3: What is it?
Speaker 1: I love the smell of popcorn. I never really ate popcorn,
Speaker 1: but I love the smell of popcorn. And I love
Speaker 1: the adventure of going to a movie.
Speaker 6: I love going to the theater. I love it. I
Speaker 6: love taking my family and like going with friends. I
Speaker 6: think it's an experience and certainly never be replaced by
Speaker 6: Netflix or videos at home. So yeah, I think it's
Speaker 6: part of growing up, taking your kids, being you know,
Speaker 6: with your family at the movies, and people aren't allowed
Speaker 6: to opt out.
Speaker 1: Really, yes, you know, because my mum would often watch
Speaker 1: movies at home, but she would do the ironing, she
Speaker 1: did the you know, did them and then and she
Speaker 1: would you know, of course go and you know, take
Speaker 1: the put them in the basket and then take the
Speaker 1: clothes off to the rooms.
Speaker 3: And I said, do you want me to pause?
Speaker 1: It's catch up, that's not that's not watching the movie.
Speaker 3: That's not what movies are about.
Speaker 6: I like the factions. They make it dark, yes, you know,
Speaker 6: and it's all focused on the movie.
Speaker 1: Yes, do you want modern cinema? What do you think
Speaker 1: of the state of cinema?
Speaker 3: Now? What was the last good movie you saw?
Speaker 6: It certainly wasn't The VP that was terrible, which I
Speaker 6: saw recently. That was just I didn't see me nonsense.
Speaker 6: It was about George Bush's vice president, not the yeah
Speaker 6: vice vice that's right. Sorry, rubbish, absolute rubbish. Hated that movie,
Speaker 6: thought it was just terrible. Almost walked out, did you.
Speaker 6: I've only ever walked out of one movie, which Saving
Speaker 6: Private Run?
Speaker 1: Really why?
Speaker 6: Too violent for me? The first twenty minutes I thought,
Speaker 6: this is terrible.
Speaker 1: I can't stay here, and you got three o'clock crange.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know it's brutal.
Speaker 6: The Imaha Beach scene was, which is the scene was
Speaker 6: too much for me?
Speaker 3: So you walked out early?
Speaker 6: Yeah? Sorry, you know I left, and I've never left
Speaker 6: a movie.
Speaker 1: I'm also a great I walked out of one, which
Speaker 1: is a very different movie than Saving Private right, I
Speaker 1: walked out of In Bed with Madonna? Oh, yeah, was
Speaker 1: that bad?
Speaker 6: I was a garbage you know. I'm also a great
Speaker 6: weeper in movies.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: My worst weeping in the movie was Working Girl.
Speaker 7: Remember when she gets the job at the end, and
Speaker 7: that music comes up, that great music comes up, that
Speaker 7: choiet which is singing let the rivers run. And I
Speaker 7: was this is bad because I was at the Chelsea
Speaker 7: Cinema and I was sitting next to the member for Sturt,
Speaker 7: my predecessor, Ian Wilson, who I defeated in pre selection
Speaker 7: about a year later, and I'm sobbing.
Speaker 6: In working And I always thought that was bad because
Speaker 6: he must have thought, God, I don't know this guy's
Speaker 6: crying and buddy working girl. And then a year later
Speaker 6: I knocked him up in pre selection. I mean, really,
Speaker 6: Chalk and Cheese, wasn't it.
Speaker 1: But you did you begin getting more emotional watching movies
Speaker 1: because I did when I had kids. Sure, I started
Speaker 1: getting more emotional when I watched movies and crying more.
Speaker 6: Oh definitely. My children think it's an erratus that are
Speaker 6: crying movies that aren't in the least bit sad. But
Speaker 6: I get upset of something wonderful.
Speaker 1: Happens to people in the rock movie once.
Speaker 6: As well as something. You know, I don't cry when
Speaker 6: terrible things like you know, violence doesn't make me in
Speaker 6: the least bit of motive, but you know, wonderful things
Speaker 6: that have sort of real I found them tears chair
Speaker 6: because like that girl and working girl getting the job
Speaker 6: at the end with the telephone in the air.
Speaker 1: I asked you, so, which movie haven't used? Because I
Speaker 1: know you're a movie buff. We speak a lot when
Speaker 1: you come on the project and you you off the
Speaker 1: name drop certain movies and I which one haven't you seen?
Speaker 1: And you said A Clockwork Orange? And I thought, perfect,
Speaker 1: because there's always surprised me. Yeah, Well, did you know
Speaker 1: when it was released that Stanley Kubrick actually had it
Speaker 1: yanked from cinemas in the UK because there were complaints
Speaker 1: or allegations that it was inspiring real life violence, which
Speaker 1: upset him, and he had This is how powerfully he was.
Speaker 1: He had the movie yanked from the UK and it
Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to be shown until after his death.
Speaker 6: Wow, is that right?
Speaker 3: That's right?
Speaker 6: When did he die?
Speaker 1: Nineteen ninety nine, So the.
Speaker 6: Brits didn't get to see A Clockwork Orange until after
Speaker 6: nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 1: It was open for a few weeks I think, and
Speaker 1: then he had Warner Brothers of the whole thing.
Speaker 6: But he was okay to be watched in the US.
Speaker 6: The rest of the world it.
Speaker 1: Was allowed, and it was nominated for an Academy Award,
Speaker 1: which was rare for an r RAD film to be
Speaker 1: nominated for an Academy Award.
Speaker 3: So you watched it, what did you think about I.
Speaker 6: Thought it was really interesting. Actually I quite liked it.
Speaker 6: I didn't love it. I could see that it would
Speaker 6: have been a real groundbreaker in its time, though, and
Speaker 6: it was in that period of those kinds of movies
Speaker 6: that was breaking out of the old sort of way
Speaker 6: that movies has been made by Hollywood or the Brits.
Speaker 6: It was clearly you know, it's a disturbing movie, but
Speaker 6: it's quite lyrical. So as a person who's read the
Speaker 6: Iliad and the Odyssey, for example, I quite liked the
Speaker 6: narrator being as Alex Alex Alex. The way he talked
Speaker 6: in his sort of lyrical way as a narrator about
Speaker 6: what was going on in the movie reminded me a
Speaker 6: bit of how the Iliad tells the story about Troy.
Speaker 5: One thing I could never stand was to see a filthy, dirty,
Speaker 5: old drunkie howling away at the filthy songs of his
Speaker 5: father's and going blur in between as it might be
Speaker 5: a filthy old orchestra and his stinking, rotten guts.
Speaker 1: For me watching it, because I hadn't seen thought I had,
Speaker 1: but I had it. I think i'd just scene you
Speaker 1: the images. But when I sat down and watched it
Speaker 1: and it reminded me the first half hour, I was like,
Speaker 1: I was just getting through it.
Speaker 3: It felt like a bit of work.
Speaker 6: Is that right?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 6: I didn't feel that way because I'd never it was
Speaker 6: a genre that I'm not used to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how did you? How did you handle the violence?
Speaker 1: And then and the I was surprised.
Speaker 6: I was quite surprised by it, actually, And that's quite
Speaker 6: early in the movie. Yes, So that's really the opening
Speaker 6: night is all those terrible crimes at their connects, rapes
Speaker 6: and they rate that woman who with the red dress?
Speaker 6: Is it dear?
Speaker 2: There's a young male here.
Speaker 1: He says, there's been an accident.
Speaker 2: He wants to use the telephone.
Speaker 6: What I suppose you better let it mean? Look, it
Speaker 6: was I mean it was very Stanley Kubrick, you know,
Speaker 6: cutting the holes in the red dress so that her
Speaker 6: breasts were exposed.
Speaker 1: So that scene happens, which is Alex and gang of.
Speaker 6: Drug cool drugs. He had extence.
Speaker 1: They cut out the holes in the dress her breasts,
Speaker 1: and then when he goes and breaks into the other
Speaker 1: house later on with the phallic artwork a catwoman. Did
Speaker 1: you notice there's artwork on the wall that actually has
Speaker 1: a woman with the same scene, the same cutout of
Speaker 1: the notice that it was.
Speaker 6: I thought it was very interest It was all very seventies,
Speaker 6: there wasn't.
Speaker 3: It he was.
Speaker 1: Did you notice the amount of phelic artwork? Has a
Speaker 1: lot of phallic artwork in the movie, there's the pine household.
Speaker 6: And any phallic artwork. I didn't think it was overdone
Speaker 6: because it was the seventies. Yes, and in the seventies
Speaker 6: everybody was proving that they could have, you know, phallic
Speaker 6: artwork and you know enormous vaginas and things sort of
Speaker 6: as ashtrays and apparently didn't matter, which I thought was
Speaker 6: all a bit tried too hard. But I was only
Speaker 6: a child, of course, But now looking back, I think
Speaker 6: it's all a bit tried too hard. But on the
Speaker 6: other hand, the movie really did reflect the times.
Speaker 2: That it made noughtynughty, naughty, you filthy old sunka.
Speaker 6: Hello, don't it's a very important welcome art.
Speaker 1: There was criticism of it for being soft pawn, you know,
Speaker 1: like there was people who kind of thought Kubrick had
Speaker 1: this fascination with that that that there was that sex
Speaker 1: scene that was supposed to be a twenty eight minute
Speaker 1: sex scene. But they sped it up, they did, and
Speaker 1: it's basically a threesome.
Speaker 6: Three some with the two girls from the album shop.
Speaker 1: That's right, And they sped it up. And one of
Speaker 1: the reason they sped it up it was all to
Speaker 1: do the sensors and the rating. I can see why though,
Speaker 1: they thought they would get away with not getting an
Speaker 1: R rating if they sped it up. Then the censors said, well,
Speaker 1: hang on, if we allow this to happen. They were
Speaker 1: actually thought pornographers would actually use this as a trick
Speaker 1: to gets their movies through as well.
Speaker 6: It was a bit random though, that scene. I'm not
Speaker 6: sure how that added to the movie. That Alex album
Speaker 6: shop meets these two girls has a threesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what was.
Speaker 6: The I'm not sure how that added to the movie
Speaker 6: at all. No, which makes me think that maybe Kubrick
Speaker 6: did have sort of your know, i mean, Eyes Wide
Speaker 6: Shut has a whole lot of scenes and that they're
Speaker 6: completely unnecessary.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that was his last work, and he died
Speaker 1: before that was released.
Speaker 3: What were your images?
Speaker 1: What were your impressions of what A Clockwork Orange was?
Speaker 3: If you put yourself back before you saw that.
Speaker 6: I thought it was a seditious movie that was designed
Speaker 6: to undermine the moral values of the Western world.
Speaker 3: Okay, you got.
Speaker 6: Because that's what That's why I was told I wasn't
Speaker 6: allowed to watch it. I just thought, I'm never going
Speaker 6: to watch A Clockwork Orange. That opportunity is now passed,
Speaker 6: until you mentioned that I should watch a movie that
Speaker 6: I've never watched. I've always had this in the back
Speaker 6: of my head that I've never watched A Clockwork Orange,
Speaker 6: which makes me unusual because everybody I've ever spoken to
Speaker 6: he seems to have I've watched A Clockwork Orange, and
Speaker 6: I know that I didn't watch it because it was
Speaker 6: undermining the values of the Western world that we lived in.
Speaker 6: That's why my father would have told me that I went.
Speaker 1: And so what do you think then? The overriding theme
Speaker 1: he was quite liberal.
Speaker 6: So it's peculiar, isn't it that he was quite small
Speaker 6: or liberal? But he just probably thought I was too
Speaker 6: young and impressionable to be allowed to see, which is
Speaker 6: fair enough. Which is fair enough because now that I've
Speaker 6: seen the movie, I realized he probably made a very
Speaker 6: sensible decision. Absolutely, you know, definitely. I mean that the
Speaker 6: hideousness of the murder of the catwoman with the phallic
Speaker 6: sculpture is terrible, Yes, terrible.
Speaker 1: It's kind of it's so like, I don't think anyone
Speaker 1: would get away. I can't imagine any director now doing
Speaker 1: a scene like that where it's kind of you're not
Speaker 1: sure it's been played for the last for a little while.
Speaker 1: I mean, did you find any of it funny?
Speaker 6: It's a good question because I often thought during the movie,
Speaker 6: this is almost high fast. Yeah, this is high fast.
Speaker 6: Because the way they were all the drugs were dressed
Speaker 6: was also peculiar. The underpants on the outside. The idea
Speaker 6: of that was, what is the idea of all that?
Speaker 1: Well, Malcolm McDowell played Alex and when they were collaborating,
Speaker 1: Kubrick asking what he wanted to wear, and you know,
Speaker 1: he goes, I got my cricket uniform, my cricket whites
Speaker 1: in my car and he put his cricket whites on.
Speaker 1: Being an American didn't really know where they was, and
Speaker 1: he saw his protector's he said, yeah, wear that on
Speaker 1: the outside, so he wore on the outside.
Speaker 3: That kind of became the drugs thing.
Speaker 1: But there were times where you could have been in
Speaker 1: the Monty Python sketch.
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly because it was it was filmed that way.
Speaker 6: I mean, it's kind of rough.
Speaker 1: The scene when he comes back into the house after
Speaker 1: he comes out of aversion therapy and there's a lodger. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the lodger and I had a few laughs during that.
Speaker 6: See, that was very That was a very unusual and
Speaker 6: funny scene because the lodger sort of talks to him
Speaker 6: like he's the parent about how he should have behaved
Speaker 6: and how he hasn't behaved that way, so they're not
Speaker 6: welcome here anymore, and the parents basically allow the lodger
Speaker 6: to do that.
Speaker 2: I've heard about you. I know what you've done, breaking
Speaker 2: the arts of your poor grieving parents. So you're back, eh,
Speaker 2: You're back to make life a misery for your lovely
Speaker 2: parents once more.
Speaker 4: Is that it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like that could have been a Monty
Speaker 1: Python sketch.
Speaker 6: I agree. I thought it was. It was at random,
Speaker 6: But the mother is random too, you know, with the
Speaker 6: purple hair and she's crying sometimes and other times she's
Speaker 6: you know, loving Alex and wanting you know, it's just
Speaker 6: I felt. Also the movie was designed to say, this
Speaker 6: is what the seventies is like, yes, and this is
Speaker 6: the new world we live in and it's pretty ugly,
Speaker 6: and you know, we're always trying to I mean, the
Speaker 6: Sound of Music is one of my favorite movies, right, yep.
Speaker 6: It's completely unlike the real world. Yes, I think most
Speaker 6: people would agree. Yes, there isn't the von Trapp family
Speaker 6: behaving that way and singing fabulous songs and dancing through
Speaker 6: the meadows of Salzburg.
Speaker 1: There's a parties family that was as close as we've gotten.
Speaker 6: But people love the Sound of Music.
Speaker 3: It's a great film.
Speaker 6: We want to Ronald Reagan's favorite movies and why do
Speaker 6: we love it?
Speaker 3: Lisa was one of my first crushes, is that right?
Speaker 1: She was sixteen while I was younger.
Speaker 6: And the Ronald Reagan's one of Ronald Reagan's favorite movies.
Speaker 6: So because it lifts everybody, it makes everyone feel great.
Speaker 6: I mean, you can't watch the Sound of Music without
Speaker 6: feeling great. And a clockwork Orange is basically saying no,
Speaker 6: the world is a terrible place and welcome to it
Speaker 6: here it is and full display. Yeah, and which is confronting.
Speaker 1: It's a very confronting film, obviously, But it's also about
Speaker 1: free will, isn't it. Can you impose? Can you impose
Speaker 1: free you know that got a free will? Or can
Speaker 1: you can you make somebody change that?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Can you change their DNA to become a good person?
Speaker 3: Or should good and evil be a choice?
Speaker 6: Do you think that's about good and evil being a choice?
Speaker 4: Just?
Speaker 6: I suppose it was really because in the end the
Speaker 6: man was saying, when he was on the stage having
Speaker 6: been apparently cured, there was a person who was against
Speaker 6: what they'd done, because I think it was the warden
Speaker 6: or something.
Speaker 1: Or something, Yeah, it was what was I think it
Speaker 1: was the minister.
Speaker 6: The minister was in favor of the aversion that the
Speaker 6: prison Chaplain, the prison Chaplin.
Speaker 3: I think that scene.
Speaker 6: Taken aways free Will is the film? Did it make
Speaker 6: a difference? Most of Kubrick's movies were made for a reason,
Speaker 6: and I think it probably did. I think it probably
Speaker 6: said to people back in the seventies, Wow, this could
Speaker 6: be the future. This is disposed to dystopian future. This
Speaker 6: could be the future unless we change it. But has
Speaker 6: it changed, probably not really.
Speaker 3: Do you understand why it's a classic?
Speaker 6: Do you?
Speaker 5: Ye?
Speaker 3: Do you kind of give it.
Speaker 6: Because it was so different? I mean it was a
Speaker 6: classic because I mean classics are classics because they either
Speaker 6: tell an amazing story, or they are huge budget, or
Speaker 6: they had a fantastic score and gone with the windows,
Speaker 6: all three, which is why it's still a classic. And
Speaker 6: I pity people that haven't seen Gone with the End.
Speaker 6: But they're also classics because they change fit the theater.
Speaker 6: They changed in this case, you know, cinema, and I
Speaker 6: think that was so different to the movies that were
Speaker 6: being made before it that it's always going to be
Speaker 6: a classic.
Speaker 1: How did you feel about Alex's performance of singing in
Speaker 1: the rain?
Speaker 6: Yeah? That was interesting, wasn't It was disturbing too.
Speaker 3: It was disturbing.
Speaker 1: So that was They shot the versions of that scene
Speaker 1: I think for days, because Kubrick does take out to
Speaker 1: take like famously, so many takes, and they shot it
Speaker 1: for days, even I think, using different recasting the actress.
Speaker 1: And Kubrick just didn't think there was it felt flat,
Speaker 1: there was something missing, and he so he encouraged malcol
Speaker 1: McDowell to kind of jump around a bit maybe to sing,
Speaker 1: and he sung singing in the rain.
Speaker 3: Libed singing in the rain.
Speaker 6: That's interesting, isn't it, Because I mean the actors these days,
Speaker 6: the directors would basically tell them what to do it
Speaker 6: almost the whole movie. But and obviously when Kubrick makes
Speaker 6: this movie, Malcolm Madowell is much more involved in the
Speaker 6: final outcome than just the run of the male actor.
Speaker 1: Well, apparently the script is very faithful to the book
Speaker 1: and a lot of it was just also notes that.
Speaker 1: So I think, and I think Malcolm MacDowell worked with
Speaker 1: Kubrick months leading into the obviously with the wardrobe is
Speaker 1: one example, and even in the moment to add lib
Speaker 1: singing in the rain. But what's interesting is that he
Speaker 1: had lived singing in the rain, apparently Kubrick pissing himself
Speaker 1: laughing at the monitor.
Speaker 3: Which is slightly weird.
Speaker 1: To be honest, I can understand divorcing yourself from the
Speaker 1: fact that you are shooting a rape scene and he
Speaker 1: singing singing in the rain, like you can actually I
Speaker 1: think kind of go okay. I noticed a disturbing scene,
Speaker 1: but I found it funny what Malcolm just did then because.
Speaker 3: It works for the film.
Speaker 6: But it worked for the film.
Speaker 1: For the film, I don't think you know, I think
Speaker 1: he's supposed to be laughing when you're watching it at all.
Speaker 1: But then when it's it's interesting because when he sings
Speaker 1: later on, so Alex has come out of a version
Speaker 1: therapy and he breaks into the writer's room and the
Speaker 1: writer that doesn't recognize him as.
Speaker 6: Then he sings it again.
Speaker 1: He sings it again, and it's actually the perfect song
Speaker 1: for him to sing because he's singing, I'm singing the rain,
Speaker 1: I'm happy again. He's almost found this contentment, which you
Speaker 1: gotta go how it's an amazing.
Speaker 6: Writer works out that he's the guy that broke into
Speaker 6: his house. It's a few years before, and it's it's
Speaker 6: so left him a cripple.
Speaker 1: It's like if you were scripting it. It's such a
Speaker 1: perfect song to sing, both in the first performance and
Speaker 1: then later on when he's in the bath. The lyrics
Speaker 1: just work perfectly, and it's just amazing. It's what a
Speaker 1: happy coincidence.
Speaker 8: So what's with the bodybuilding guy who looks after the
Speaker 8: you know who that is?
Speaker 1: No, who that is Darth Vader himself. No, that is
Speaker 1: a gentleman by the name of David Praws.
Speaker 6: Is that right, Yes, a young man.
Speaker 3: As a young man.
Speaker 1: So this was made in nineteen seventy one, so about
Speaker 1: eight years before or six years before Star Wars and
Speaker 1: New Hope.
Speaker 3: And he was a bodybuilder.
Speaker 6: Wow.
Speaker 1: And he actually actually because he knew Kubrick was a
Speaker 1: big fan of doing multiple takes. And yet he complained
Speaker 1: about the idea. You know, he carries the wheelchair. Yes,
Speaker 1: he complained. He goes, how many takes are you going
Speaker 1: to do with this?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Right, And so Kubrick agreed to do six. He did six. Wow,
Speaker 3: six takes.
Speaker 6: But that was an unusual part of the movie. Yeah,
Speaker 6: I mean, what were they trying to convey there that
Speaker 6: the writer in the wheelchair that the bodybuilder was his lover. Now,
Speaker 6: well I.
Speaker 1: Just thought that. But then the wheelchair, so he might
Speaker 1: he may have just had it that was his I.
Speaker 6: Think in the end I thought it was actually he
Speaker 6: was protector against it happening again. And he was just
Speaker 6: a practical person who could carry him around. But the
Speaker 6: opening part when the you couldn't see the bodybuilder, but
Speaker 6: you could hear him lifting weights, yes, And I thought,
Speaker 6: what's that in the background. That's such a weird sound.
Speaker 1: It's quite a flat shot, and they start on the
Speaker 1: writer and they pan across.
Speaker 6: The when you hear what.
Speaker 1: The sound is actually that the dumbbells kind of comet
Speaker 1: and the.
Speaker 6: That's so weird. But I'm sure Kubrick was alive. He'd
Speaker 6: have a good explanation for that.
Speaker 3: I'm sure we don't have access to him, sadly.
Speaker 6: But I thought that was an unusual another another random
Speaker 6: part of the movie which must have had some deep
Speaker 6: meaning that I missed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and what about the the the therapy scenes. Did
Speaker 1: it make you not want to watch Nazi films in
Speaker 1: your home cinema anymore? The certainly had that effect on
Speaker 1: I'm not watching anything.
Speaker 6: How did you know? I didn't think that was the
Speaker 6: best part of the movie. I know it was critical
Speaker 6: to the movie, but I actually thought it was a
Speaker 6: bit weak, because, I mean, I didn't like the why
Speaker 6: they were keeping his eyes open, eyelids open with those things,
Speaker 6: and I thought it was very unlikely he would have
Speaker 6: been able to do that.
Speaker 3: Well, you know the doctor.
Speaker 6: Is that true though, that they can do things like well.
Speaker 1: That they actually did that, and the doctor who was
Speaker 1: there wasn't supposed to. He was actually an actual doctor
Speaker 1: who was just they had on set to kind of
Speaker 1: because they wouldn't have been able to do it without.
Speaker 6: That must have been a misery because I kept thinking
Speaker 6: during that part of the movie, God, this must have
Speaker 6: been impossible to do to shoot. Yeah, well, because that
Speaker 6: was distracting from me, and.
Speaker 3: It scratched.
Speaker 1: Mcdiland are being basically blinded for you know a little
Speaker 1: while it scratches the coroners that they call it scratched cornea, cornea.
Speaker 6: The cornea. My father was an ice surgeon. Yeah, now
Speaker 6: that was I mean, that was an obviously critical part
Speaker 6: of the movie. And my take out of that was
Speaker 6: that this is basically mocking the nineteen seventies and how
Speaker 6: all these new alternative ways of doing things because a
Speaker 6: flower power in the sixties the seventies is all about
Speaker 6: how I'm going to do things differently, and you know,
Speaker 6: the Ministers came across as somewhat of a of a
Speaker 6: fool for thinking that this was going to empty the
Speaker 6: jails of Great Britain by changing people's you know, aversion
Speaker 6: the aversion therapy changing their psyche, which I don't think
Speaker 6: anybody actually thinks is possible.
Speaker 1: Has Australian government ever conducted such a version. Therapy tests
Speaker 1: that you are aware of knowledge, not to monitor your knowledge.
Speaker 1: So you're leaving the window a job.
Speaker 6: You never know.
Speaker 1: Do you can get Peter that the phone on the phone.
Speaker 6: I liked the whole Beethoven motif.
Speaker 3: I going to ask you about that.
Speaker 6: I thought that worked.
Speaker 1: So Alex loves as much as is a violent hoodlum,
Speaker 1: the one thing that kind of gives him a human
Speaker 1: redemptive feature for even the therapy is that he loves Beethoven.
Speaker 6: And it did. It did give him a redemptive aspect,
Speaker 6: don't you think?
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 6: And you know I had friends in the seventies and
Speaker 6: eighties who loved the clockwork orange and because they felt that,
Speaker 6: you know, the message was you could be violent and
Speaker 6: seemingly unable to be a part of society because you
Speaker 6: loved Beethoven and classical music. Actually you were quite sophisticated
Speaker 6: that It didn't mean that they walked around being drugs.
Speaker 6: But I'm sure, I'm quite sure that.
Speaker 1: Where the cricket protected on that I remember they were.
Speaker 6: There was there were a few of the say NAC's
Speaker 6: boys at the time who thought that this that Alex
Speaker 6: was quite a reasonable character because of the music side
Speaker 6: of it, the sophisticated music sign of it. Didn't make
Speaker 6: me want to watch the movie, I must say, But no,
Speaker 6: I think as the part that that part of the movie,
Speaker 6: the Beethoven aspect, is quite interesting, actually quite quite a
Speaker 6: different take on Alex, which makes you think, well, maybe
Speaker 6: he is just really you know, disturbed, and he's been
Speaker 6: had a bad upbringing. He lives in these terrible flats
Speaker 6: in Great Britain, and he's been forced into this terrible lifestyle.
Speaker 6: It's not his fault. And one of the reasons you
Speaker 6: think that a little bit is because of the the Betho.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it gives you an insight, like a little glimpse
Speaker 1: that there might be some humanity left left in him.
Speaker 3: And then it works.
Speaker 1: Beautifully because when he gets the therapy and he's turned
Speaker 1: against sex and violence, which which he loves, the other
Speaker 1: thing he loves, which is Beethoven's and it's the Ninth
Speaker 1: I think that's playing over these Nazi films, he also
Speaker 1: begins to hate Beethoven, so he loves he's taken away
Speaker 1: from him, so you're keen on music.
Speaker 6: Left for a while, he's stopel like.
Speaker 1: Politicians aren't often portrayed sympathetically.
Speaker 3: In movies. Do you have but there are some? There
Speaker 3: are some?
Speaker 1: Do you have a favorite portrayal of a politician.
Speaker 6: Look, I've watched a lot of movies about politicians, and
Speaker 6: I don't expect politicians to be portrayed sympathetically in movies.
Speaker 6: But I'd like them to be portrayed as they are
Speaker 6: or were. And I think the portrayals of Lyndon Baines
Speaker 6: Johnson are very good in the movies I've seen about LBJ.
Speaker 6: He seems to get captured well. I think the unfortunately,
Speaker 6: people find it very hard to capture the Kennedy mystique
Speaker 6: because it's too much show business and there's too many myths.
Speaker 6: But I think LBJ is such a a roughie that
Speaker 6: he's kind of that he's been portrayed well over the years,
Speaker 6: whereas I don't think Kennedy really has been. And yet
Speaker 6: there's been a lot of movies or television series or
Speaker 6: whatever about Kennedy. But I think favorite political movies good question.
Speaker 6: I mean, there's so many. I've loved a lot.
Speaker 1: Of them, Ze Churchill.
Speaker 6: The recent one I saw Churchill, I found that a
Speaker 6: bit hard to believe. I thought he was kind of
Speaker 6: portrayed peculiarly because he wasn't a ditherer. But I thought
Speaker 6: that movie he was portrayed a bit as a ditherer.
Speaker 6: There's been some wonderful old movies. Marlon Brando played Napoleon
Speaker 6: in a movie called Desiree Yep, and I thought that
Speaker 6: was a wonderful portrayal of Napoleon JK.
Speaker 1: Obviously it's just dealing with the assassination of JFK. But
Speaker 1: did you I saw that as a fifteen year old.
Speaker 6: I saw it by the Stones version Stones I.
Speaker 1: When I saw it, we were holiday in Queensland and
Speaker 1: I was a bit obsessed with jfk assassination. So my
Speaker 1: parents dropped me off to see the movie. I sat
Speaker 1: there by myself and they picked me up at the
Speaker 1: end of it, and my mum says she's never seen
Speaker 1: me more shaken afterwards.
Speaker 3: It rattled me.
Speaker 6: Look, I agree, if it was true, then it would
Speaker 6: be a movie that would shake your faith in our society.
Speaker 6: But I think it was rubbish based on the facts.
Speaker 6: I just think it was just a rubbish movie. I think,
Speaker 6: you know, it was a good movie, but I think
Speaker 6: it was just the whole story about the New Orleans,
Speaker 6: you know, mafia getting together with the cashtro people, anti
Speaker 6: Cashro people and shooting Kennedy. I think it's all fantasy.
Speaker 3: What do you think happened there?
Speaker 6: I think Lee Harvey Oswald.
Speaker 1: Acted alone, no grassy all And I.
Speaker 6: Think the most convincing theory I've ever seen was that
Speaker 6: Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, but that in their attempt
Speaker 6: to protect the president, the Secret Service might have accidentally
Speaker 6: shot him as well. Well, because I'm not a conspiracy theorist, no,
Speaker 6: I think man did land on the Moon in nineteen
Speaker 6: sixty nine excellent, And I think most things happen, I
Speaker 6: always believe it's the stuff up rather than a conspiracy,
Speaker 6: usually in politics, and I don't believe that the mafia
Speaker 6: were that well organized, or that the CIA killed their
Speaker 6: own president, or the anti Castro people who couldn't land
Speaker 6: successfully at the Bay of Pigs could apparently kill the
Speaker 6: president United States. But I think Lee Harvey os Will
Speaker 6: definitely shot the president, but I think there's evidence that
Speaker 6: he was shot with something else, and I think that
Speaker 6: was probably one of the Secret Service agents who accidentally
Speaker 6: shot the president. There's a very very good documentary on
Speaker 6: this recent one about sort of four or five years ago,
Speaker 6: which goes through all the ballistics.
Speaker 1: Yep, the magic bullet that are still available.
Speaker 6: It says it wasn't a magic bullet, but there are
Speaker 6: two kinds of ballistics that entered the president's head that day.
Speaker 6: One was Lee Harvey Oswald's weapon and one was different.
Speaker 1: So if you're a if you're let provide security for
Speaker 1: the president and you shoot the president, not doing your job,
Speaker 1: is it?
Speaker 6: But you would if you did that, cover it up, yes, right,
Speaker 6: So if you're the Secret Service, and of course accidents
Speaker 6: happen all the time with weapons, and these people are
Speaker 6: running around with, you know, highly powerful weapons that have
Speaker 6: got not their safety catch on because they're designed to
Speaker 6: protect shoot people. And it's not completely beyond the realms
Speaker 6: of possibility that an accident occurred that day in the
Speaker 6: shock and panic of trying to protect the president. Not
Speaker 6: beyond the realms of possibility. It would be it was
Speaker 6: an unfortunate accident, obviously, but if it did happen, you
Speaker 6: would then remove the president's body as soon as you
Speaker 6: possibly could. You would shut everybody else off from access
Speaker 6: to it. You wouldn't have a proper or autopsy, et cetera,
Speaker 6: et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3: Do you because you.
Speaker 6: Wouldn't want people to know that there'd been this terrible.
Speaker 1: Accident, do you think there should be an Australian movie
Speaker 1: covering egg Boy? Did he have a second egg? The
Speaker 1: response was over the top.
Speaker 6: From a senator Anning's protectors people, yes, security guards.
Speaker 1: It's like he had a second It's like he had
Speaker 1: They thought he had a second egg on him, or
Speaker 1: a flower, like he was going to bake a car.
Speaker 6: I don't think that people should be egging politicians or
Speaker 6: media presenters like Paul Lee. Sales was attacked recently in
Speaker 6: Perth with yoga I think yogurt, which was awful.
Speaker 1: That seems to be a thing that's happening in the UK.
Speaker 6: It's pathetic.
Speaker 3: I just I completely.
Speaker 6: Ag Alan Joyce was hitting the face with a shaving
Speaker 6: cream pie one day two years ago. That's just that's
Speaker 6: just so bad mannered, you know, offends my sense of
Speaker 6: what's right and wrong.
Speaker 3: I do agree.
Speaker 1: I don't think though. Look, I was amused because I
Speaker 1: don't like Phraser Anning right, and that helps, but that
Speaker 1: should I don't like when egg Girl tried. I tried
Speaker 1: to got one on Scott Morrison's head and they just
Speaker 1: rolled off his head.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And there was the time that John Houston caught the egg.
Speaker 6: Do you remember that in ninety ninety three. There was
Speaker 6: tilling him at the Adelaide rally. Yeah, and he just
Speaker 6: put his hand up and caught the egg. And it's
Speaker 6: kept on talking. And I thought that was bad.
Speaker 3: That's pretty cool actually, But.
Speaker 6: I must admit when that child at the or youth
Speaker 6: shouldn't call him a child. When the youth threw a
Speaker 6: sandwich at Julia Gillard, Yes, in the high school, Ladlade,
Speaker 6: I thought that was really below below stairs. I think
Speaker 6: it's played below stairs.
Speaker 1: But I do agree, and I I said I found
Speaker 1: egg Boy funny because I did test Fraser Anning. But
Speaker 1: the principle, I can understand people not thinking that's it right,
Speaker 1: and I completely agree. And egg girl who tried to
Speaker 1: get scomo that wasn't that wasn't.
Speaker 6: So I think people if they don't like Fraser Anning,
Speaker 6: the best thing for people to do is to ignore him.
Speaker 6: Because that brought a lot of attention to Fraser Anning well,
Speaker 6: because he.
Speaker 3: Got sixteen plots to begin with and then two and
Speaker 3: it was.
Speaker 6: Never to get reelected. No, so you know, but that's
Speaker 6: just me as the political professional, thinking, well, he's got it,
Speaker 6: he's got a shelf live, so why don't we just
Speaker 6: let him out his shelf life and then he'll move on.
Speaker 3: What would you give a clockwork orange at a five?
Speaker 1: Three and a half, three and a half, three and
Speaker 1: a half stars?
Speaker 3: I reckon, I probably occur.
Speaker 6: Maybe i'd give it three and a half because it's
Speaker 6: a classic, because it changed cinema. Yeah, because it talked
Speaker 6: about the time. But I would mark it down because
Speaker 6: it was rough.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give it four. I'm gonna give it four,
Speaker 1: but you know we're in the same ballpark. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for being a guest on. You ain't seen
Speaker 1: nothing yet. Keep watching movies, keep crying, keep putting yourself
Speaker 1: out there, and we'll happily catch up with you soon.
Speaker 3: Now here's the scene from Working Girl.
Speaker 1: That was a fun chat. And that was actually the
Speaker 1: first episode I had actually recorded of this podcast. We
Speaker 1: rolled about as episode six, but with the first piso
Speaker 1: Christopher Payine, former defense minister, and I thank him for
Speaker 1: leaping into the unknown with me on my podcast. Journey.
Speaker 1: He has a new book out called The Insider, which
Speaker 1: I haven't read, but I'm sure it's a riveting read.
Speaker 1: He's good company, Christopher, so check it out if that's
Speaker 1: in your wheelhouse. I also want to thank everyone who's
Speaker 1: been emailing in at Easney podcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: We've had some lovely feedback on the show. This is
Speaker 1: the first opportunity I've been able to read some because
Speaker 1: we record a little bit in advance. We heard from
Speaker 1: Martin Bennett, who says the first time writing into a podcast,
Speaker 1: but he felt the need to let me know how
Speaker 1: much he enjoyed the chat with Tom Gleeson. It's that
Speaker 1: the conversations he has with his mates and you really
Speaker 1: brought some happiness to my day. That is lovely to
Speaker 1: hear Martin. And he also suggested Christian O'Connell, a radio
Speaker 1: broadcaster here in Melbourne, as a guest. I think that's
Speaker 1: a great one. Heard from Scott Thomas, who also loved
Speaker 1: the Tom Bleison episode. He also says, on a side note,
Speaker 1: he looks a bit like me. I'm frequently ours on
Speaker 1: the street in Brisbane if I'm the bloke on the project.
Speaker 1: So he also thanked me for not being a dickhead
Speaker 1: that everybody hates. So he doesn't actually caught that heat.
Speaker 1: Oh well, there's still time. There's still time. We also
Speaker 1: heard from Dan Christensen, who lived in Australia for eight
Speaker 1: and a half years before moving back to his home
Speaker 1: country of the United States of America a few years ago,
Speaker 1: and he loved listening to the Sampang episode of The
Speaker 1: Castle because it reminded him of the Aussie humor that
Speaker 1: they miss so much, and they're currently working on getting
Speaker 1: The Castle streaming it so they can watch it in
Speaker 1: the US of A. It is great to hear from you, Dan,
Speaker 1: and I hope you're staying safe over there in the
Speaker 1: US of A. Jamie also, Jamie Shaw loves the podcast.
Speaker 1: There's a big man of myself and Tom and so
Speaker 1: they thought the concept was brilliant and they'll definitely be
Speaker 1: a regular listener and suggested Will Anderson and Hamish Blake
Speaker 1: as guests. They those two are both certainly certainly on
Speaker 1: my on my list, so thank you to keep them coming.
Speaker 1: It is great, particularly in the early days. We are
Speaker 1: still working out, you know, the best best way to
Speaker 1: do the podcasts. You know, each episode might sound a
Speaker 1: little different, and eventually it may settle on a particular format,
Speaker 1: but at the moment we're just having fun chatting to
Speaker 1: mates about movies. We've got lots coming up. And I
Speaker 1: want to thank Derek Myers, my podcast manager at Castawaystudios
Speaker 1: dot com dot A you for all your podcast needs.
Speaker 1: If you want a podcast studio space, they're recording a
Speaker 1: brilliant set up here at Castaway Studios. Tom and Jimmy
Speaker 1: at Circustree Sounds, go there for all your boutique audio needs.
Speaker 1: Damn Movies dot com dot AU, thanks for sticking with us.
Speaker 1: Guys really appreciate it. It means I can pay the
Speaker 1: people involved in putting this podcast together. Next week on
Speaker 1: the show, am Russiano a fantastic comic performer and she
Speaker 1: has never seen despite her Italian roots, she has never
Speaker 1: seen a raging bull. She's got a whole lot to
Speaker 1: say about that movie. It was a really fun chat
Speaker 1: and I can't wait for you to listen to it
Speaker 1: until then.
Speaker 6: And so we leave old Pete say fan sut and
Speaker 6: to our friends of the radio audience, we've been a
Speaker 6: pleasant good name