1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: As we have spoken about, we know that this alleged 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to call it alleged carjacking, I may be corrected, 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: and also stolen cars. The Northern Territory Police have now 4 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: revealed that four youths were arrested over this crime spree 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: that spanned several Darwin suburbs yesterday morning. It is alleged 6 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 1: that they stole a car in Wallagi, then crashed it 7 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: a mere head and blocked off the road. Then with 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,319 Speaker 1: a bicycle. Now, good Samaritans jumped out of the car 9 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: to move that bicycle and he's then been threatened with 10 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: a machete before having their car stolen and crashing it 11 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: in Leanna. Now police and the dog squad hatched a 12 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: plan from what I can gather, and managed to apprehend 13 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: this group who are expected to be charged except for 14 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: an eleven year old who was taken to a responsible adult. 15 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: Now in the studio with me this morning is the 16 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: acting Assistant Police Commissioner Martin Dole. Good morning to you. 17 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. 18 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: Sorry I gave you a promotion a little bit earlier 19 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: and said you were the acting commissioner acting Assistant commissioner, 20 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: but you are going to be acting as commissioner later 21 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: in the week, Is that right. 22 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 3: I'm currently the acting deputy commissioner, Katie. We'll get it 23 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 3: right sometime. It's all good. 24 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: I do apologize. I might just call you Martin, so 25 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: I don't get that wrong. Now, Can you tell me 26 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: a bit more detail about this incident that happened, well, 27 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: that culminated I guess yesterday morning in the arrest of 28 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: these kids. 29 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Katie. 30 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 3: So, as you talked through already, the sequence of events 31 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 3: are alleged to have started in will Lagi where a 32 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 3: motor vehicle was stolen. That motor vehicle subsequently crashed in Mewhead, 33 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,759 Speaker 3: and as you've alluded to already, another vehicle, a good 34 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 3: Samaradan stopped because there was a bicycle placed on the 35 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 3: road as a decoy, were saying, and as he got 36 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 3: out to have a look at that, that vehicle was 37 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 3: stolen and he was threatened by a group of youth 38 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 3: and they then stole that motor vehicle, which was again 39 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 3: later crashed in Leena and then the youth offenders fled 40 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 3: from that scene. So later that morning, one of our 41 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 3: dog handlers, one of our dedicated dog handlers that was 42 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 3: out actually walking his patrol dog in the vicinity and 43 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 3: he saw a group of sispicious youth in the area, 44 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 3: and he made contact with our Stroke Force Trident who 45 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 3: had already been called on to duty and we're investigating 46 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 3: these matters. He told them that he'd just seen this 47 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 3: group of youth, gave a description, and they said, yep, 48 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 3: that's exactly who we're looking for. And a coordinated response 49 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 3: then resulted in us apprehending all four of those youth. 50 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 3: One of those unfortunately fled and didn't listen to police 51 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 3: commands to stop. He was apprehended by Drax, and the 52 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 3: other three were taken into custody by Stroke Force Trident members. 53 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: Now, could I ask, do we have any idea of 54 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: the age of the victim, the man who was threatened 55 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: with the machete. 56 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Katie, No, that's all right. 57 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: I thought i'd ask in terms of then the you know, 58 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: the four alleged defenders, so one of them an eleven 59 00:02:55,000 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: year old who was taken home to a responsible adult. Now, Martin, 60 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: there's going to be people listening that are quite furious 61 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 1: that somebody of that age firstly is involved in what 62 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: I deem quite a horrendous crime. And then you know, 63 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: we've got three others as I understand, that are in 64 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: police custody. Still, have they been charged. 65 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 2: Yet, Yes, Katie, that is the fact. 66 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, the three other youth offenders have been in police 67 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 3: custody that have been charged with a series of offenses 68 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 3: in relation of these solo motor vehicles, and those three 69 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 3: were considered and granted bail. As you spoke about just 70 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 3: a second ago, the eleven year old was taken home 71 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 3: because that eleven year old is below the age of 72 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 3: criminal responsibility. 73 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: Do we have any idea how old the other three 74 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: offenders were. 75 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 3: I don't have that accurately information, but they are youth Katie, 76 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 3: obviously there over the age of twelve to be charged 77 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 3: by us. 78 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 2: But I don't have that specifics for you at the moment. 79 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: Now you've been a police officer for a long time. 80 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: I mean an incident like this where you've got them 81 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: four youths, they've put a decoy on the road, you know, 82 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: a bike on the road. They've then by the sounds 83 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: of it, you know, I ambush this person with a 84 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: machete to us listeners, sounds that sounds really quite violent 85 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: and frightening. I mean you're a seasoned police officer, how 86 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: does that like? How do you feel about this whole incidents? 87 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 3: It is quite violent and fridening, Katie, and it's just 88 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 3: totally unacceptable behavior. 89 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 2: It shouldn't be tolerated. We won't tolerate it, and we will. 90 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 3: Do everything we can to investigate these matters to the 91 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 3: full extent and hold these youth offenders accountable. And that's 92 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 3: what's occurred in the circumstances we've charged them. What I 93 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 3: will do is just call out the efforts of Strike 94 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 3: Force Troden. They're doing some incredible work at the moment 95 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 3: and they are always onto these offenses as soon as 96 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 3: they occur, and they've got a really really good success 97 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 3: rate with their apprehensions and prosecutions. So just to call 98 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 3: out to the team, they're doing fantastic work and they'll 99 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 3: continue to do that fantastic work and try to keep 100 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 3: territory and safe. 101 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: How is it sort of determined then, whether you know, 102 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: the three that were there are obviously of an A 103 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: they are actually be able to be charged. How is 104 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: it then determined whether they get bail or not? 105 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 3: So bail considerations are guided by the there's two parts 106 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 3: of the legislation. There's the Youth Justice on Considerations and 107 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 3: then there's the Bail Act. So there's stringent conditions that 108 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 3: we have to abide by when we're considering that bail, 109 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,359 Speaker 3: and that's what would have occurred in these circumstances. So 110 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 3: I don't have the details whether or not they were 111 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 3: released with electronic monitoring, what the bail conditions were, but 112 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,359 Speaker 3: there's strict guidelines that our police officers go through before 113 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 3: they make that determination. 114 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: Look, I know I can preempt people listening to the 115 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: show this morning going how on earth can you ambush 116 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: someone with a machete and then end up on bail? 117 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 3: Yes, I know, and I hear those concerns of the public, Katy, 118 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 3: But we work within the legislation parameters that we've got, 119 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 3: and our guys and girls are out there making sure 120 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 3: that these offenders are held accountable and are put before 121 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 3: the course. 122 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: Is it frustrating for you guys, you know, apprehending people 123 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: so young? Oh? 124 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 3: Look, I've got no doubt there's frustration out there amongst 125 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 3: the whole wider police force, and not just in dah 126 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 3: and this is across the territory. We've got these issues 127 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:11,559 Speaker 3: where we we're seeing young people become involved in probably 128 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 3: more violent crime than we have historically seen, and it 129 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 3: is a problem that we've seen and I'm no doubt 130 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 3: that that's frustrating and it's times it could be disheartening 131 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 3: to our members to see those youth continue to behave 132 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 3: in those manners. But what I can assure the public 133 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 3: is that we're really good at our job. The guys 134 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 3: and girls that are out there investigating these matters do 135 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 3: an exceptionally good job and have a really high strike 136 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 3: rate of catching and identifying the offenders in relation of 137 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 3: this offending. 138 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: Look, I think people can you know, like people anybody 139 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 1: listening this morning, certainly you know reading through that pressure 140 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: as and I'd read it out earlier this morning, you know, 141 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: seeing the links that the police are going to even 142 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: when you're not on duty to try and keep the 143 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: community safe. I think it's really commendable and well done 144 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: to the police on being able to, you know, to 145 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: apprehend these youths. I'm seeing across the board, not just 146 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: here in the territory but also in Queensland. There's a 147 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: lot of coverage at the moment about youth crime and 148 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: there's actually a lot of coverage in Queensland at the 149 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: moment about some police officers being afraid to go to 150 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: work because of some of what they are dealing with 151 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: when it comes to youth crime and feeling like, you know, 152 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: like their hands are tied in some ways. You know, 153 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: I'm not expecting you to sort of get into a 154 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: political debate about it, but it's a tough juggle right 155 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: now for police, Katie. 156 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 3: I think it's not just limited to the northern territory 157 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,239 Speaker 3: in Queensland. We talk regularly with our counterparts in Western 158 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 3: Australia and they've got just the same similar issues and 159 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 3: remote Western Australia with the same level of youth offending there. 160 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 3: So it is a problem across Australia. Our counterparts in 161 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 3: Victoria also have similar issues with regards to youth crime. 162 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 3: So it is it is a national problem and it's 163 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 3: a national strategy that police executive leaders across Australia are 164 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 3: getting together and talking about the issues that we all 165 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 3: face in the jurisdictions of being a similar nature. 166 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: I mean even in Alice Springs at the moment, you know, 167 00:07:57,960 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: we've seen the report on the front page of the 168 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: Australian newspaper about these youths stealing a vehicle and going on, 169 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: you know, leading police on a wild goose chase, you know, 170 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: and putting themselves at real risk. I think that's the 171 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: frightening part here as well, as you're not just putting 172 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: the public at danger in danger, but themselves as well. 173 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 3: And this is the point of this, Katie. It's just 174 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 3: idiotic behavior. It's putting the public at danger, it's putting 175 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 3: themselves at danger, and it's putting our police force at risk. 176 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 3: And it's making work that our police officers don't need 177 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 3: because we're flat out attending other offenses, is to chase 178 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 3: these youth committing these stupid offenses that they just don't 179 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 3: need to be doing with no respect for people's property. 180 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,719 Speaker 1: Now, Acting Deputy Commissioner, I do want to ask you 181 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: about this new surve Pro system. It's something that we 182 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: spoke about yesterday with the with the Northern Territory Police Association. Now, 183 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 1: they'd raise concerns on the show yesterday about unlawful arrests 184 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 1: happening due to alerts through the new surve Pro system. 185 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: Has that been the. 186 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 3: Case, so, Katie, we've done some interrogation in relation to 187 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 3: that information that was ended by Nathan and I can't 188 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 3: confirm figures that he said. But look, from time to time, 189 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 3: our police force makes mistakes, and from time to time 190 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 3: there will be a matter where there's an wrongful arrest, 191 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 3: and that wrongful arrest can be from any manner of things. 192 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 3: But my interrogation and my information at the moment is 193 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 3: that there had been some occurring in January, but that's 194 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 3: not specifically related to the Royal out of Serpro. That 195 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 3: was another issue in relation to the IIJER system, which 196 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 3: is the Integrated Justice Information System which is owned by 197 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 3: the courts, it's not owned by the police, and there 198 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 3: was some difficulties with the iijer system being contemporarily. 199 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 2: Updated, if that makes sense. 200 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 3: So we've got to I'd probably get a little bit 201 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 3: technical here, and not the best at the technical either, Katie. 202 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 3: But we've got a platform called our Mobile Data Inquiry Application. 203 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: Now. 204 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 3: That platform enables us to talk to a lot of 205 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 3: systems in a mobile way, so we can access when 206 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 3: we're out on the road and we can look up 207 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 3: alerts on certain systems when we're out on the road. Now, 208 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 3: there was some difficulty with the integration of MDA and 209 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 3: I that was identified in early January, and that was 210 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 3: closed off and a broadcast was put out to say 211 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 3: that the source of truth when we're arresting somebody on 212 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 3: a warrant is the source system, which is IIS. So 213 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 3: that was recognized back in January, and we put a 214 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 3: temporary measure in place until that link could be fixed. 215 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: So from your perspective, that issue has now been rectified, 216 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: and you're confident that there's not going to be people 217 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: unlawfully arrested. 218 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 3: Look, yes, I am confident, Katie, that our guys and 219 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 3: girls out there are doing as thorough a job as 220 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 3: they can, but they're only as good as the information 221 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 3: that they get off the system. So if that information 222 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 3: is inaccurate, then they're in good faith doing their job 223 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 3: basing their arrest on the information that they're provided. So 224 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 3: I'm confident that that link was switched off in January 225 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 3: and that a solution's being found before that integration is 226 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:08,199 Speaker 3: reintroduced back in so there won't be inaccurate information available 227 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 3: on MDA. But I just is the source of truth 228 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 3: that we go to when we're arresting people on warrants 229 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 3: that are issued by the court. 230 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: All Right, stepping back to Surpro again. One of the 231 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: concerns that has been raised is that you know that 232 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: I guess when sort of you know, selling the system 233 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: as being a good thing to convert to. And let's 234 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: be frank, the system that the police were going off, 235 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: Promise had been in place for a long long time 236 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: and was very old and clunky. But one of the 237 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: concerns is that officers aren't sort of able to use 238 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: it while they're mobile, so while they're out and about 239 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: at this point, is that something that is being worked 240 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: on so it can happen. 241 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 3: Yes, Katie, so there is a mobility solution being explored, 242 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 3: but I think we've got to remember we couldn't do 243 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 3: that with Promise either. So we've introduced a new system, 244 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 3: so Pro in late November last year, and part of 245 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 3: introducing Surpro was examining and exploring a mobil So now 246 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 3: we've got the ability to take a laptop with four 247 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 3: G and news Zu pro outside of the police station. 248 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 3: But at the moment, it doesn't integrate with the devices 249 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 3: that our police officers use, so mobile phones and iPads. 250 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 3: It's not something that we can update. But we couldn't 251 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 3: do that on Promise either. 252 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: Okay, and So are we going to move towards being 253 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 1: able to do that, because I would imagine like it 254 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: can be quite burdened, like burdening for the Northern Territory Police. 255 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:25,559 Speaker 1: If you're out on a job, you know you've got 256 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: some paperwork to do. If you've then got to go 257 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: all the way back to the office or without your 258 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: laptop when all of us work off phones and mobile 259 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: devices these. 260 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 2: Days, that's right. 261 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 3: So there is work in progress for a mobility solution 262 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 3: into the future and what the best fit that will 263 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 3: be for our officers. 264 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: The association said that it is creating administrative errors, is it? 265 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 2: Look? 266 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 3: I think with the introduction of any system, there's a 267 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 3: time that's taken to bed it in. And I'll tell 268 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 3: you a story HARKing back to ninety ninety nine when 269 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 3: we introduce PROMISE, and I remember it very well, as 270 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 3: we went from a paper based information management system to 271 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 3: our first electronic information management system and for twelve months 272 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 3: nobody accepted Promise and said this is a terrible system. 273 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 3: Twenty five years later, we're looking at the same introduction 274 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 3: of a new system and there will be some time 275 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 3: for people to get to use it. We recognize that 276 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 3: more training is required. We're rolling out extra training and 277 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 3: after people have undertaken a little bit more training. Some 278 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 3: of the feedback is positive, But Katie, what I can't 279 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 3: take away from is the fact that it is causing 280 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 3: some pressure to our workforce, is causing some angst among 281 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 3: the workforce, and I'll recognize that. 282 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 2: I can't. 283 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 3: I'm not going to show away and try and minimize 284 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 3: that at all. We recognize that. 285 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: Well, look and you know, and I think if there's 286 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: some measures in place to try and work through it, 287 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: I hope that that does help those officers, you know, 288 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: out there working their butts off in different locations so 289 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: that they're not having to worry about that admin so much. 290 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: It was also claimed on the show yesterday that prosecution 291 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: cases are falling over due to electronic briefs? Is that 292 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: the case and what's the plan to address spash? So? 293 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 3: Okay, I don't have the information that prosecution cases are 294 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 3: falling over, but what I can say is that the 295 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 3: introduction of the electronic brief has come at a time 296 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 3: of overwhelming pressure on the justice system in general. So 297 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 3: we've got a whole range of the highest number of 298 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 3: people that we've had in custody. Ever, in the Northern Territory, 299 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 3: a huge percentage of those are on remand we've got 300 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 3: very stretched legal services in the Northern Territory and introducing 301 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 3: an electronic brief at a time when they're stretched probably 302 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 3: has caused them some issues in the way that they 303 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 3: deal with business. So we've recognized that and we've accepted 304 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 3: that that's causing pressures to the system. And at the moment, 305 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 3: we're not using the electronic brief anywhere outside of Darwin, 306 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 3: so for the rest of the territory we're still We've 307 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 3: gone back to paper based briefs to hopefully take some 308 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 3: of the pressure off those other agencies that are having 309 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 3: difficulties with it. 310 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: One of the other concerns is that some of that 311 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: previous data for crime stats that it's not going to 312 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: be available. I mean, there has been commentary that you 313 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: can't come pay the stats from previous years. But from 314 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: what I can see or from what I can gather, 315 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: that older data is still there. Is it just harder 316 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: to access now. 317 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 3: That's one hundred percent of the case, Katie. So we 318 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 3: don't own the crime statistics. Agds own the crime statistics, 319 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 3: and there is absolutely no intention to remove or take 320 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 3: away any of the previous data that just wouldn't and 321 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 3: couldn't happen. So that is still available, but there is 322 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 3: some new reporting regimes under sur PRO that I think 323 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 3: everyone's still learning how do we compare that to previous data? 324 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 3: And that's still We're only three months or early three 325 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 3: months into the new system, and things may look a 326 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 3: little bit different with our new crime reporting data, but 327 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 3: we're still getting our heads around some of the reasons 328 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 3: for that. 329 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: All right, So it does sound like there's some serious 330 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: teething issues. I mean, are we going to be in 331 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: a situation of an arthern Territory Police is going to 332 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: be in a situation that the Health Department was with 333 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: their new IT system Acasia, where it's going to have 334 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: to be rolled back, or do you think that you're 335 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: going to be able to work through with Surpro. 336 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 3: Look, I don't think we're in the same case as 337 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 3: Akasha Katy, and we really don't want to be turning 338 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 3: off a system that we've just introduced that's already caused 339 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 3: three months worth of banks to our officers. And as 340 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 3: I said, the feedback is overwhelmingly our officers had issues 341 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 3: with the system and they felt unsupported and they felt 342 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 3: it was an extra burden. But we've had some releases 343 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 3: and some patches on the system since it's been released, 344 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 3: and that work is going to continue. And my hope is, 345 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 3: and my actual lived experience, is that people, once we've 346 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 3: done some releases, they've done some extra training, are actually 347 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 3: getting some positive stories back. Now that's not overwhelming the case, 348 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 3: but we are getting some positive stories saying things aren't 349 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 3: as bad as they were initially. Look, and I hope, 350 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 3: my genuine hope is that we do get there. But 351 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 3: I just asked the police force out there to bear 352 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 3: with us while we are still rolling out, you know, 353 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 3: and trying to get this system perfect. 354 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: Well. Look, I know we do have plenty of police 355 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: officers that listen to the show, and I know for 356 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: some of our listeners you might be thinking, oh, come on, Wolfe, 357 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: why do we care about this it system for the police. 358 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: But it's more making sure that our police have those 359 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: tools to be able to do their jobs, you know, 360 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: to hopefully be able to do them. And it's not 361 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: too big a burden. Now, before I let you go, 362 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 1: Acting Deputy Commission, I do just want to ask, and 363 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: I know that the police sort of don't. You know, 364 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: you're not going to want to go into specifics, But 365 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,959 Speaker 1: there has been concerns raised around the amount of time 366 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: that it took for MLA Josh Burgoin to be charged 367 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: this week. Is it normal for a traffic investigation to 368 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: take six months and for people to not hear from 369 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: the police for that period. 370 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, Katie, I don't know if it's normal, but I 371 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 3: wouldn't say that that's unusual. And it just depends on 372 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 3: the individual circumstance. So I can't go into the details 373 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 3: of this matter because it's now sub judics, it's before 374 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 3: the court, and I can't talk about the details around it. 375 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 3: But I heard Nathan talk yesterday about some of the 376 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 3: technicalities that have to be considered when we're considering bringing 377 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:55,199 Speaker 3: a matter before the court, and they do exist. So normal, no, 378 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 3: but not unusual, okay. 379 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: And I mean, does it sort of demonstrate that there 380 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: is quite a bit of burden on the police in 381 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: terms of just how much work you've got to get through. 382 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 2: Well, I think that's that's obvious, Katie. 383 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 3: And I think anybody that's been in the territory for 384 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 3: any lengthen time at the moment knows the pressure that 385 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 3: our police force is under. 386 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 2: The amount of incidents. 387 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 3: That we go to has escalator tripled in the last 388 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 3: five years, and that's evidenced by the prisons at the moment. 389 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 3: We've got the highest populations that we've ever had in 390 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 3: corrections at the moment, and our guys and girls out 391 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 3: there every day busting their guts to serve the community 392 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 3: are under a lot of pressure. 393 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: They just on the prisons overflowing. We did speak to 394 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: the Corrections Commissioner about this, and just a really quick one. 395 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: There's obviously there's prisoners in the watch houses at the 396 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: moment too, isn't there's correct I mean, is that placing 397 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: extra burden on you guys or are there correctional staff 398 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: to deal with that? 399 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 2: Absolutely, that's pleasing pressure on us, Katie, it is. 400 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean are they like you said in 401 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: alisand here. 402 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 2: In Darwat Yeah. 403 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 3: So in Darwin the Darmon Watchhouse is actually operated by 404 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 3: Corrections now, so it's an additional mini prison that they've got. 405 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 3: The capacity in Alice Springs numbers fluctuate on a day 406 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 3: to day basis, but we get some assistance from Corrections 407 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 3: when they're able to help staff the watchhouse in Alice Springs. 408 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: Gee wiez. It just means there's, you know, more work 409 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: for the police. Look, I know everybody appreciates the work 410 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: that our Northern Territory Police officers do, so thank you 411 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: very much for your time this morning, Acting Deputy Commissioner 412 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: Martin Dole. 413 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 2: Thank you, Katie, Thank you.